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CME Margin Hike Is 4th AND 5th - Charting The Parabolic Rise In CME Silver Margin Hikes
Remember when earlier we said the CME had hiked silver margins for the 4th time in 8 days? We lied. In fact, what the CME did was to hike margins for the 4th (effective May 5) AND 5th times (effective May 9). That's right, dear reader, in one release, the CME has performed two concurrent margin hikes, which means today's action is the 5th margin hike in 8 days, a previously unheard of event! As of May 9th, the initial margin is $21,600, or 11% of the contract value, while the maintenance is $16,000. This is nothing short of sheer panic at the CME. At this point we can only wonder if the FDR-style precious metals confiscation executive order will come by way of the CME or the FBI. And for everyone asking, below is the chart of recent CME margin hikes in silver.
Spot the parabola:
Oh, and another thing: today (or technically yesterday) there was another drop in COMEX registered silver, with 4,758 ounces of silver withdrawn from Brinks.
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turd, where is the best real time PMs live quote charts? computer got wiped today and i can't get my bullionvault up.
try netdania.com
looks good . thanks UG.
This downward grind has a long way to go. I still see a lot of hope among gold and silver bug black helicopter, anti illuminati, anti one world government kill the comex crowd. When I quit seeing such hope and optimism in you gold and silver buggers then I will know that the bottom is near. You are stil far too optimistic and hopeful. This is not the sentiment shift we see at bottoms.
I forgot again. Gold for president. I promise to burn everything down. Thank you.
Stop using ZH as a sentiment indicator.
This is not the street.
Turd, it looks like you won't make your 1600 call but stick around because 1576 is really close and it took atomic weapons to beat you back. I'm assuming this attack will take a few months to overcome. I think they're serious this time. Fortunately i read the end of the book already so I know they lose out in the final act.
Turd-I love ur stuff so don't get down (I read ur blog several times today, and have for many months) so just skip the trolls and hater's and keep doing ur thing. No guarantees in life, really no guarantees in rigged markets, and ultimately its up to each investor - Caveat Emptor!
As they incrementally increase requirements it is having the desired effect. At least in the immediate term. What is interesting though, is that there is an inflection point somewhere. They can't go to 100% or else it becomes kind of a default COD physical market. Maybe they can't even go to 50%. At some point in this wind-down, the margin hike will have the reverse effect. Barring any outside events, that will be the bottom of this silver plunge.
Now you sound like RobotTroll because I wasted time reading your blog previously. You had a buy all the way up. Now you are not surprised it has gone down but surprised it has only gone down 20 percent? Folks we have a new robotTroll. Yes you saw this coming and just like catfish mouth you wish to forget about your previous posts. Gold for president thank you.
Someone tell the Fed shill Gold 36K that silver is STILL WAY UP. OH NO - SILVER DROPS FROM HIGH 40S TO NEAR 30S.. OH NO! SHOOT US ALL.
Of course you silverbear clowns start showing up in a different surname when silver drops.
Sorry - but that job is already taken by Robotrader, and Methman and all those other clowns are just imitators or need a new line of work after getting hosed big time the past 7 months by shorting silver.
The SLV Ponzi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gm72UYgEarw
Can someone explain in the most DUMBEST language what exactly these margin hikes are doing? I mean as DUMB as can be. How does this translate into "panic" at the CME exactly?
Clearing out the "punters" and "hangers-ons" looking to speculate and get in on the feeding frenzy thats resulted from the fervor fueled in December...and the battle that resulted in March...followed by more physical removed in the non-delivery month of April.
The Comex has a couple directives they are "charged" with complying with at the behest of their Bullion Bank masters:
1. Find out how many serious players will be doing more than just gambling contracts on a primary delivery month (May) by demanding more cash...and sooner (less time for the small speculators to drum up capital to stay in the game)
2. Appease the "Prez's Working Group" that must keep outside entities complicit (think govts. like China, India, and recently Mexico) that are "pissed" about rising prices of PM's and are no doubt...letting the traitors in D.C. and Wall St. secretly know about it....so that they can protect themselves from the US dinar that's tippy toe dancing along the precipice of the cliff and a waterfall devaluation.
Comex is a middle-man....a dealer at a Casino table...they have rules where the "Longs" and "Shorts" can settle their bets under a mutual agreement privately (think fiat cash buyout to not accept the delivered metal)
The "Shorts" think the wallets of the small speculators (Longs) are not fat enough early in the month....and can both "guage" their opponents resolve...and institute dissention and confusion within their ranks.
It's really an entertaining battle to watch....due to the greed of the small speculators' love for fiats...and their inability to rally more numbers to their side of the battle. They are a mercenary force...with no country to call home...waging battle on lands claimed long ago by much larger Tyrants...and tyrants cannot exist without fractional reserve banking and derivative constructs. It would be easy for the small speculators to concoct a plan to win...but their love for fiats has both clouded their vision and left them unsure if they even want the Casino to burn down following a victory....
....what then, would they have left to service their gambling fix?
I chose the login of US Uncut because I support the movement. Because for the past 6 years, I have been reading about the housing collapse on Patrick.net when they were the only site posting about it and then I moved onto the economic collapse. When I first clued into it, I was horror struck. NO WAY! This is just a joke. A fertile imagination. But I SAW a blog, Patrick.net, pretty much the only blog talking avidly about the housing problem. And I watched it GROW until finally, MSM picked it up and then it collapsed.
I bought into physical when it was $18. It seemed a lot (and mind you, I didn't go in like some people because I don't have much money!). And I read, and read and read and try to understand but sometimes, it's like trying to understand another language. I am still trying to learn the "rules" but I am still learning to spell and you are all talking poetry half the time.
And this is one of my MAJOR complaints. Everyone is so easy to criticize "sheeple" but they are LIKE that because this is so FRACKING complicated. What you so kindly spent time to respond to me still has me scratching my head. I just don't get it!!!!!!!! I am NOT a sheeple. I have my food storage, I am trying to put money into physical, I have my land, I am doing all I can within my monetary means to face what is coming. My family is very clever so we will be ok on many fronts. BUT..... I still need to understand this and I am still confused. Sorry... :(
Your timeline for your understanding in all things is your own....just like mine was individual to what i was ready for. I cannonballed my way into this arena a decade ago....but only after blowing up a trading account on the Nasdaq that I thought was bringing me to early retirement....it was a fools paradise of a dream i was living in....thinking it was all so easy and that doing one's due diligence and careful research was not a requirement to prosperous and reckless gambling.
There are plenty of places to go...to move your understanding along at a faster clip. My own personal frustrations has fueled my thirst for knowledge about PM's....that and a desire to unplug from the rat race and live more of life outside doing the things I like to do...without the trappings of the Casino constantly offering a spot at the table....or a bunk in the jail cell.
Another good place to start would be to come to the realization that "free markets" is just a catch phrase....much like politicos throw around words like democracy and freedom....illusions at best. Markets were designed by nefarious creatures that draw wealth unto themselves by keeping their secrets available to members of their "Club".
To side step these pitfalls is possible....but you must be shifty and quick...nimble and calculating. I myself have never confirmed if i was even the type to really have the stomach for it long term...since my "beat down" came both early and severe. I sense that there are many traders here that have figured out some "Bangin good" systems to capitalize on the various "rigged" casino houses...ansd have carved out a profitable niche existence that affords them good returns.
Because you are not lacking in intelligence...you'll arrive to the place you were looking for i'm sure. Personal drive coupled with a dash of healthy frustration will fuel your motor and keep you on course.
What is money? (original money)...and why do central bankers and manipulators of govts. seek to hoard it in their vaults? and concomitant to their alternative business models.....one is in the light of day and out in the open....the other is in secret, and hidden from your view...for what reason?
FRANKLY ITS AMAZING THAT THEY NEVER RAISED MARGINS ON THE OIL TRADE THAT CRIPPLED WORLD ECONOMIES!!
So why would silver be more important to hike than oil...
Hey check out this CME Published "Primer" on CME margin changes. http://openmarkets.cmegroup.com/clearing/understanding-margin-changes/
Margins are set as part of the neutral risk management services we provide. They aren’t a means to move a market one way or another, or to encourage or discourage participation from one kind of market participant or another. Rather, margin is one of many risk management tools that help us assess overall portfolio risk to protect market participants and the market as a whole.
(And its a great way to get us the dip so we can BTFD!)
Looks like a Shuttle launch, Winning The Future!
I love the smell of CME panic in the morning. Smells like napalm.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBksHaTQCbU
If you feel yourself starting to panic, then just take a nice long look at the daily, weekly, and monthly charts for the US Dollar index.
That was easy!
and one would be pretty happy going long on phys when the DXY gets "anvil'd" , right?
One usually finds after getting burned many times that shorting something trending along bottom resistance is not a good choice. Short something when it is at the top of it's resistance channel. Go long at the bottom. If you don't want to go long then you should at least wait until it breaks the trendline before shorting whatever asset class you are talking about such as the dollar. You short at the top not at the bottom. You wait for confirmation of breakdown before adding to short positions that you established at higher levels. That is all thank you. Gold for president.
Thanks so much Swammi. What we do without your wisdom and guidance?
Not quite there yet. Almost, but not quite.
That was easy!
And look at that, the DXY is right where it was 3 years ago.... When silver was a quarter of the price.
Yup.
And absolutely no debasing of the US currency has taken place since that low in 2008. No QE 1, no QE 2 lite, no QE 2.0, no currency exchanges or propping up of the stock and bond markets. Everything is exactly as it was 3 years ago.
Sleep tight Meth Man and don't let the bed bugs bite.
In May of 2008 Sliver was near $20 per ounce.
Half of 40 is 20
Math man = Math fail lol
Facts:
1. http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/BASE
Base money has tripled in 3 years.
2. M1 has continued to increase to its highest level in history.
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/M1
3. Same goes for M2
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/M2
Meth (m)an as we all know ,is good for burning...
True. However these indices are measured against other fiat currencies. The central banks have printed over 5 trillion in the last 3 years. So yes the indexes are at the same level but the fiat to Ag ratio has changed by a lot more. The real question would be 2008 global currencies total/ spot 2008 Ag=? vs 2011 global currencies total/2011 spot Ag=? Throw in the "lack of faith" in fiat vector and these prices are quite justified.
And to your position that it cost less than $5 to dig it out of the ground, a $100 bill costs $0.12 to print.
Yes, on the absolute verge of collapse.
You don't seem to be able to factor that into your thinking. Because you have an agenda.
Tmo, did you figure out why APMEX doesn't have any COMEX bars yet, you stupid fuck?
Did you learn the meaning of the words "market" and "flood" yet, you stupid fuck?
Did you miss the 16.8 million ounces arbed out of SLV today... all of which were sold at spot?
Or the 32.4 million since 4/25/11?
Sold to who?
To someone who took it off the market, because it isn't showing up at the "retail level" you sneer at so much.
You can take your fake paper and shove it straight up your ass.
so much troll info. such little time!
are you saying that the 16.8 million oz "arbed" out of "SLV" was net of short sales? and that this all happened today, may 4, 2011?
"And look at that, the DXY is right where it was 3 years ago.... When silver was a quarter of the price."
exactly, and what is more, crude had been much higher than it is now, and the UN world food and ag price index, and the crb had all had a huge price hump before there was any QE. some very inconvenient truths.
on a different note, is remarkable that the 'lack of faith in fiat vector' doesnt seem to be affecting the EUR, AUD, CAD, SEK and so on. they are all fiat currencies, and all doing quite nicely. amazing!
Wow, with all the tax payer debt to the TBTF, I feel so much better about the dollar now.
Yup - right where we were - but now we have way less silver and way more FRNs...
Excuse me, do the Chinese, Indians, Vietnamese, etc, have no say in the Price of Au/Ag? Check your premises.
The old tiger, sensing the end is near, becomes fiercer than ever before.
It's no coinicendental is it that the U.S. is about to default and they are doing everything in their power to make sure silver won't be hitting daily highs next week is it?
I smell blood. This smacks of desperation and possible default. Big money will smell it and come in for the kill. Silver will probably rocket up after extreme churn and chaos.
There is a huge misunderstanding of the mechanics of the COMEX by ZH readers. There is NO risk of default.
http://www.metalaugmentor.com/eforum/?p=6750
logic is lost on these.
Shill.
The COMEX has already defaulted on hundreds of contracts. Handsome bribes and non-disclosure agreements.
How do you know? Did you hear it from somebody who heard it from somebody who knew a trader who's friend said that one of his buddies was offered a premium to accept cash settlement? I demand evidence, any evidence. First hand testimony would be great thank you.
How do we know? The math doesn't add up. People who have stood for delivery with fully funded accounts had settled without having deliveries announced.
This is default, and it is NOT normal. It only started happening in December, and it is getting worse with each delivery month.
The REAL question is:
WHAT IS THE PREMIUM PAID BY THE SHORT COUNTERPARTY TO CASH SETTLE?
Read the link Tmo.... you have no idea what you are talking about. Once again.
You can keep saying that all you want, but that doesn't make it so.
actually, meth man, i read the link. are you sure that's really what he says about the probability of default? you keep doing stuff that makes no sense, even tho, indeed, the price of silver has been going up and down and it is, indeed, mined from the earth.
yes, it went to almost 50 and now is @ 39. we know! you are not 'splainin anything to anybody!
and crimex has 33 million registered ounces---6600 contracts worth, and so far, thru tomorrow, for may, they will have delivered 113 contracts of 5,000 ounces--less than 2% of registered silver. nothing extraordinary is happening. is it? silver hasn't changed in the last two weeks, months or years, and it won't in the future, either. its price will continue to go up & down, and people who like to "bet" on where the price will go, will continue to gloat that they can tell the future and they can see around corners, too, no doubt...
There is no risk of a default because they will print up more currency to cover their bad bets, so while defalt is very unlikely huge surge in the dollar value of Precious Metals will take place upon printing of more unbacked fiat currency.
Gold and Silver are money Meth man, and have been for longer then your monetary theories have been around.
But "will rocket up" in what market? The COMEX and LBMA have become meaningless. We need an honest market.
At the risk of being laughed off of the page, we already have an honest market. It's our friend Rocky Raccoon, selling rounds on Ebay. It's the guy you know by name at your local coin shop or exchange. An honest seller offering goods to an honest buyer at a price both parties agree is fair. It may be a small market, but it is fair, and will remain long after the dust settles in the paper game.
As much as we joke about Bitchez, and $500/oz. silver, all of the physical longs knew that this wasn't going to be some Sunday drive around the lake. If the trolls really wanted to look, there have been COUNTLESS threads where THIS VERY SCENARIO WAS FORECASTED BY METALBUGS. Who gives a shit if spot was down eight dollars this morning, APMEX was still offering a BUYBACK of nearly $45 for my Eagles this morning, and they were asking an almost nine fucking dollar premium to BACKORDER.
I'm nervous as Hell right now, and it isn't because of the thousands of dollars my "net worth" has gone down in the last couple of days, I'm nervous because this scenario was called years ago, and if it's coming true, then we are in some seriously desperate times.
I'm not a trader, nor an economist. I maybe lurk around here and act like a class clown without much to really offer on most subjects, but I do read what's been predicted. If we are really beginning to decouple here, then silver price is the least of our worries, and I'd be focusing on tightening fences and beefing up the woodpile.
Good luck, I truly think we are all gonna need it.
Good post Col.
Luck favors the prepared.
Those who do not own physical gold and silver are NOT prepared. "Luck" will not look kindly upon them.
I don't think you're a class clown, Colonel. It simply is what it is. Lotsa folks bad mouth the things they don't understand, and make fun of others for asking simple questions. There's a lot of unnecessary basing and name-calling that goes on here but I find it educational. My market is these folks, good or bad. I've endured MasterBates and his reincarnation in many forms. Frankly, it's not important that others see things the way I see them. The need to be understood is a form of control. Best that we not get caught up in that unhealthy mindset.
I see two factions at work here: We have those who trade PM paper, and we have those who hold physical. It takes different philosophies for these to exist. The conflict occurs when they try to explain things to each other. They are using terms that they have not agreed upon beforehand. Therein lies the conflict.
I see the same conflict in the inflation/deflation debates. The definition of each has to agreed upon prior to engaging. The opponents are coming into the ring with different sets of rules for winning. It will never be resolved until all agree on terminology.
"We have those who trade PM paper, and we have those who hold physical."
Why can't you do both? I tell everyone I know to change the "common" knowledge of having 10% of your portfolio in Gold/Silver hedges (often I hear SLV/GLD recommended) to having 10% in physical, AND some paper.
If the SHdoesn'tHF you might be making some outsized gains in Juniors or leveraged etfs/options. BUT if SHdoesHF you're still covered... to an extent.
Rock, Flag, and EAGLE!
If that's your cup o' tea, great. My idea of hedging my PMs is a full larder, healthy body, friends and neighbors I can trust, and peace of mind. Why hold PMs at all? My reason is to hold/preserve my earnings to get me thru a depression. Coming out on the other side with wealth intact would be the result of proper planning. Hedging with paper PMs, etc, is an admission that my goal for PMs is to create more fiat.
But, that's just me.
on Wed, 05/04/2011 - 21:01
#1241463
"APMEX was still offering a BUYBACK of nearly $45 for my Eagles this morning, and they were asking an almost nine fucking dollar premium to BACKORDER."
******************************************************
I did some ruff math on my purchase today and figured a 16% disconnect / backwardation.
Yours looks a little more harsh.. 20%+!
and its getting worse NOT! Better!
and the asshat's sit around debating the finer points of what may and / or coulda been.. if only this or that feel into place.
You people better listen to what the Colonel has offered you! the truth! a real look at real pricing for people who want to put it into thier safe today.
I have offered the same, real info..
If ya'll are buying to make paper.. I guess this is as good as any make believe place to try and predict the 1's and 0's! but if you are protecting yourself or loved ones with PM's to spend! then see above for some good info! if you live in Palm Beach or South FL I have a great place for you.. Rechant Metals no phone or internet sales, just face to face!
The real price of silver today for me to own it.. was $45.82! and oz! not the $39.32 that showed up at around 1pm when I was in the store buying.
I would love to see silver drop to $20 - $10 fuck make it $1 per oz.. annd maybe they can make the paper markets drop that far.. but when you want to buy real silver and put it into your hand.. you will be paying closer to $50 if not higher very fucking soon. QUOTE ME!
Good Luck and God Bless You All!
Colonel my best to You and Yours as always Sir, JW
My numbers were ballpark, and probably very close to yours. I honestly haven't been much of a buyer (metal) in the last few months, I have been investing in things like: DPMS, Trijicon, ATN, Stihl, fencing and meat production. As of last week, I am thoroughly prepared to live 100% off grid. (This isn't a paranoid bunker scenario BTW, it's a dream come true, and in a couple of years when the kids move out the circuit breaker goes OFF).
I'm hoping like Hell that when this little silver calamity settles, physical will be readily available, because I will be at the counter hoping to buy up a storm.
Good luck as always, JW.
Nice. ++
I have to agree with you. I wish I had a ton of money for when this stabilizes. I can't see it going much lower with the exception of when QE3 begins. Yes we will most definitely see QE3. After that my hunch is it will start a steady climb towards 50 once again. The more they try and tear silver down the more confident I become.
Serious question:
How would a silver confiscation go down? Do they go to the dealers and subpoena records of who bought what? Are there any statutes to defend ourselves from this? I know it all happened before, but i can't very well compare 1930's style bureaucracy to the behemoths of today.
I'd really like to avoid shooting people if i can avoid it. Not very good for my karma.
They'll just paw through all safety deposit boxes in banks, using experienced TSA troops, then go after those on record as purchasing, using the same experienced troops.
Does the TSA have any real Policing power? If not then I will feel free to show them the loud end of my boom stick if they chose to try and force their way in.
T as in Transportation. They can't take your stash, bro. If they tried, I'd send them home with a few extra orifices.
Arrest powers count? Those beestards can ruin your life in a heartbeat. Fuk em.
They'll just make it illegal to own/sell........thus creating a huge Blackmarket that will eventually be run by organized criminals.
Perfectly correct. Although silver will not be "nationalized" in the name of national security or strategic stockpile rebuilding, it would come in the simple gov't decree, by Presidential order. The common folk will turn in everything that ain't nailed down. Those who retain ownership will simply go one-on-one to trade as needed. There would not be any storm-trooper move to confiscate when there is no need. Besides, allowances would be made for numismatic or ancient collectibles. And therein would be the door for most "trading" to take place. A safety valve if you will.
Not if the "thing" you shoot is a genuine son of a bitch!
Killing anyone is not fun.
can someone please suggest a possible sequence of events? I screw around alot so I expect some comic relief, but I am genuinly curious and i don't want to rely on some alex jones type conspiracy tripe.
One option is that due to "speculator induced scarcity," Ag is declared a "strategic metal" and its private ownership/transfer is restricted...
Black Market here we come!!
gotcha, so effectively they make it worthless because you can't trade it. That wouldn't apply to foreign countries though would it? I'm just trying to plan ahead here, so please excuse my ignorance.
this is the only way to bypass many of the rights of the people. You make them worthless and thus people give them away. If you ban ammunition, you make guns worthless becuase you can't shoot anything. If you make it illegal to transact with anything but $, then you .. well.. you start a war. So no.. I retract my thought and ante up civil unrest.
Unfortunently i have prepaired for the eventuallity as well. I'm supprised it took me so long to find the zerohedge "community." It seems everyone here is on the same page. There should be a handshake or gestuture to recognize one another after the shtf.
BTFD bitches isn't exactly a friendly challenge or running password...
I honestly can't see a confiscation, because there just aren't enough of us holding physical to matter. How many people do you know personally that are truly "10K??" or more invested in physical? I don't know a single solitary soul.
It isn't confiscation of wealth that TPTB are after, it's an attempt to end the undermining of faith in Fiat. It will be much more effective to tax the gains than to try to confiscate. Either option just drives the money underground, which only makes the problem for TPTB worse.
Confiscation isn't high on my list of shit to worry about.
you know me.. are or you so old you mind is slipping? you old fart!
"you know me"....
Fair enough. I think you know what I meant. :)
Good luck, JW.
Also, if things get that desperate, it's not likely the gov't will put confiscation at the top of their list of priorities.
They'll be too busy trying to maintain civil order, keep the utilities operating, keep the banking system running, etc. Think of the chaos that surrounded Katrina. At that point, that's what we'll be experiencing, nationwide. In the midst of that kind of chaos and social unrest, could a confiscation order actually be enforced?
Exactly right, YouBet.
What possible hope could there be for maintaining civil order when a few folks like me that keep the lights on, and the water flowing, have that "oh fuck it" moment?
None whatsoever.
There aren't many of us around, because of the way the system is set up. Push come to shove, we have families to protect, same as the rest. If the day ever comes that I have to clear multiple checkpoints on my daily commute, or suffer unlawful intrusions on my privacy, well Katy bar the door.
Civilization will go bye-bye.
There should be a handshake or gestuture to recognize one another after the shtf.
like... maybe we could all get the same hat? http://www.cafepress.com/zerohedge.400377160
excellent.
http://www.cryeprecision.com/C-166/Major-League-Infidel%E2%84%A2
should be a second option! for the Catholics in the Group!
In Vietnam the saying was: "Shoot the white V", as in the exposed neckline of the white Tee shirt under the jungle green fatigue.
Good forehead target on that one.
Edit: Meant for the post showing the Zero Hedge cap.
Buy everything... and I mean EVERYTHING in cash only. I asked my coin guy specifically 2 days ago, and there is no trail if doing so... guns and ammo on the other hand.... a bit more difficult. Maybe soon you'll have to show your liscense to buy PM's as well. We'll see what happens soon... If much more of "the Hand" is shown... I'm the Fuck out of dodge.
B
edit - when I do use fiat now, I do write end the fed or such on each one based on a suggestions on ZH.... just my way of spreading truth to the sheeple.
Also, I bougth a nice TDI as my only debt wagon a few months ago to stick it to them all... 44 mpg gets me around nicely.
My local coin dealer won't sell me any more precious metals for cash. He would only take cash for purchases up to $10,000 per year citing money laundering laws.
¿Por Que? The $10,000 limit is per transaction!
It is if you're killing clowns, or maybe that's funny, not fun
I've been buying from the same dealer every two weeks for 2 1/2 years. Straight cash. No records. She doesn't know my real name.
I think when/if confiscation happens, we'll be expected to surrender our metals to buy-back centers. Those of us who don't will be considered felons.
My local dealer, who I've become friends with, does not know my name.
i bought 100 eagles a little while back from a dealer in chicago who my brother knew. They have my address and name as i had to have it shipped to me... I feel like a fool now, but hey live and learn.
@bales I like the idea of printing sales reciepts. I think i'll do that. thanks.
That doesn't prove you currently own anything, just at one time you did.
Why would they confiscate silver? They didn't confiscate rhodium and that went from 50 to 10,000.
Aren't laser printers just the greatest thing? I've got a nice pile of, you know, Sales Receipts. Are they genuine? I'll never tell. But I'll be careful to cheerfully pay the taxes on the gains.
Of course, this has nothing to do with who actually is STORING this silver.
@ augie
"How would a silver confiscation go down? "
-
Simple: A law is passed that makes it illegal to buy sell or use PMs as legal tender (payment of debts) or to hold PMs except for numismatic value for collectors with permission.
If you really are this young, rent Goldfinger.
-
yes, i really am this young. born in 85' Wasn't the guy who wrote "goldfinger" actually an mi6 operative and based the film off his experience?
-
Ahh, rent it!
Not the best Bond movie by far, but you'll get a kick! All those references to illegal gold ownership!
Yes, I do remember when owning gold was illegal.
Trust me, it really did happen.
(My daughter did not believe me at first when I told her that the last time humans were on the moon was before she was born. Same year as you)
-
If it's not on MTV its not relevant for my generation... I'll check out the flick. Wonder how long its going to be untill hollywood releases an anti-silver movie.
Simple: A law is passed that makes it illegal to buy sell or use PMs as legal tender (payment of debts) or to hold PMs except for numismatic value for collectors with permission.
the problem with this theory is that laws are being passed right now in multiple state legislatures that say exactly the opposite
+++
It will be a national security issue if it happens... mark my words on that.
B
@Muir
"Simple: A law is passed that makes it illegal to buy sell or use PMs as legal tender (payment of debts) or to hold PMs except for numismatic value for collectors with permission."
Gee, they will have a hell of a time finding it, since my gold was moved from Canada to a location far far away...that was done some 3 months ago in anticipation of any such eventuality.
What you and so many miss is that PMs are a means, not an ends.
What basket of goods do you get in exchange for whatever you hold, be it stock certificates, cash, land or PMs.
What can you trade for it?
And what happens when governments decree that you may not?
-
Although history never repeats exactly, it does rhyme.
Upon inauguration, FDR used the bank holiday to order and effect the "surrender" of privately held gold, via Executive Order 6103. Under the dubious authority of the "Trading with the Enemies Act," (a hold over from World War I), FDR ordered,
"…Whenever in the judgement of the Secretary of the Treasury such action is necessary to protect the currency system of the United States, the Secretary of the Treasury, in his discretion, may require any or all individuals, partnerships, associations and corporations to pay and deliver to the Treasurer any or all gold coin, gold bullion, or gold certificates owned by such individuals, partnerships, associations and corporations." [1]
[1] This excerpt is from the Emergency Banking Act of 1933, which ratified in ex post fashion the power Roosevelt had arrogated under the Trading with the Enemies Act. FDR had received advice from his Attorney General designate as well as the Attorney General's predecessor, according to Flynn (1998, p. 26), that the bank closure and seizure of holdings was unconstitutional.
While banks were on holiday, federal agents rifled safe deposit boxes, confiscating and recording their (non-numismatic) gold coin contents, so later the lawful owners could be paid the prevailing rate of $20.67 per oz. so taken. (FDR then devalued the dollar after the seizure, but that's a separate story.)
The really interesting part is the unwillingness of FDR to confront citizens directly. Lack of manpower and potentially "adverse" reactions probably the main reasons. In any case, most of the loot was captured during the bank holiday seizures. Voluntary compliance was, shall we say, less than satisfactory. Friedman and Schwartz (1963, p. 464, n. 43) for example, point out that compliance with Roosevelt's order was not complete. Even allowing for generous estimates of loss and secret export, more than $200 million of gold coin and certificates remained unaccounted for after April 1933. Despite draconian penalties for failure to comply, scores of Americans, in other words, apparently did just that.
So under the pretext of saving the system, the current henchmen could no doubt find a suitable rationale, just as FDR did, to try to seize private holdings of inflation protection. (Hell, they could probably use the 1933 Emergency Banking Act.) However, one doubts voluntary compliance would be any more successful today than in 1933, and likely far less so given the (deserved) erosion in public respect for government today.
Even rifling the records of PM sellers would likely yield unsatisfactory results, as the manpower and time required would be a limiting factor, especially in the event of a seizure prompted by catastrophic currency collapse. Time would be of the essence, and that essence they would not have.
Bottom line: the goon-squad might attempt a nationwide seizure, but its ultimate failure would only highlight the very impotence of the goons themselves. And if there's one thing bullies cannot withstand well, it's ridicule.
Thats what i mean, i dont think they could get away with confiscation under the same pretenses as they did in 33'. I'm trying to figure out what would happen now a days (if anything) that the federal government could actually get away with telling a private citizen he can't own or trade PM's. Thank you for your comment though, very enlightening.
President Kennedy's Executive Order (E.O.) 11110 modified the pre-existing Executive Order 10289 issued by U.S. President Harry S. Truman in 1951,[1] and stated the following[2]:
The order then lists tasks (a) through (h) which the Secretary may now do without instruction from the President. None of the powers assigned to the Treasury in E.O. 10289 relate to money or to monetary policy. Kennedy's E.O. 11110 then instructs that:
Actually they didn't mess with silver in the 30's. Just gold. Because of it's many industrial uses silver is too hard to confiscate.
If you are holding silver for survival vs investment purposes I would suggest junk silver. Not saying they wouldn't confiscate it but stealing the coin of the realm would be most difficult.
They didn't mess with silver in the 30's? what is this then? (Exec order 6814)
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=14741#axzz1LRFalNWm
Thank you, hamstercheese. I'd not heard of that before.
The whole thing is on the verge of breaking. Obviously there is unprecedented demand for physical silver. Honestly, this forced margin scared selling has allowed me to accumulate more than I would have a week ago. I would even like to see them scare it lower so I can buy more. Thats where we are folks.
Roger that - Desperation like this means they are in the last death throws before the panic.
Gimme the 100% margin/cash only table and I'm just fine.
Games are for kids COMEX, time to throw your wee wee's on the table little men
Yes this time it is different as opposed to all the other times that everyone thought the anti silver luminati, one world government, black helicopter crowd at the comex was about to blow themselves up and world peace would reign henceforth.
Gold 36000 for president. We don't agree on everything, but we do have some common ground.
Uh oh.. did someone forget to log out?
ROFL! Don't you just love it when they forget which persona they're using :)
And you locked it in by replying to it....good on ya :)
They can't even find facilitators any more. They have to rely solely on schizophrenics.
I agree with that. It's got to be schizophrenia.
You have to watch it with the mushrooms. You can go insane.
Oh I know. Be careful of the mushrooms.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6hL6fkJ1_k
yeah, but the other trolls will junk it out of existence, now. or just well-meaning nannies who would never junk w/out a really good reason!
I'm too lazy (and don't really care), but if you want to figure out gold 36000's other id(s), then just track him and see who comments on his posts the most and you'll be outing his other id(s).
I'm sure you'll find lots of comments like "gee, your brilliant" and such....
LMAO too funny!
@ Gold36000
The software that lets you simulate multiple users is supposed to prevent this sort of thing. You should report this as a bug.
+++36000 - Genius - d@mn sock puppets are everywhere
Thank you, it's been a rough day...
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Glad you're able to find common ground with yourself asshat. Now we get to guess which alteregotroll account you meant to respond from...
Gold 3600 for Douche of the year!
Hahahah Gold 3600 you are a stupid cunt.
Hahahah!!!!!
Nice one douchetard!!!
Gold 36000 for President! lol
JPM promised to finance your political campaign with silver confetti SLV and Bernanke napkins. Good luck trying to get people to accept those things next week!
And prices are still green on my screen.... ruh ro!
boy, it must really be annoying for ZH and the Faithful, that silver has been up to $50, and JPMorgan still isnt bankrupt. Especially as the mutual cock-fondling network of bloggers has been banging on that drum since last year, in which time the price of silver has at least doubled! one can only wonder how they managed to hold the alleged 3.3m ounces short and never pay any margins? anyway, looks like the bankrupt JPM objective wont be met, with the 20% fall this week.
Oh ye of little faith....
crap, think I just fed a Troll. My bad.
Faith, schmaith.
The troll is assuming JPM is NOT bankrupt. Without honest financials, that claim cannot be supported, and the working assumption must be that they ARE indeed bankrupt, else they would not need to hide behind fraudulent accounting statements. They're toast, and anyone with an IQ above plantlife knows it.
Sorry, I guess I threw him a crumb too....but I needed to get it off my chest.
You may have better luck selling this line over at Max Keiser. Most ZHers KNOW that The JPM has those cool pnuematic tubes straight to the printing room at the Fed. Hard to bankrupt a printing press. Even harder to bankrupt a bank that runs the politicians that pretend they are running the country. They also issue orders to the CFTC and CME. Annoyed, yes. Surprised, no.
Actually JPM Morgan's COMEX vault is right next door to the NY Fed and there is an underground tunnel between the two buildings. Doubt me? Do your own research....
Hard, perhaps; impossible, no. Your confidence in confidence men (both political and financial) is misplaced.
again, the deflection: the morgue gets $$$ from the FED. well, yes, in a way, but what is more important, here, i think, is that jpmorgue acts as agent for the Treasury. if da goobermint sez "do this with acct# 45TFR7" then "this" happens. the Treas. pays with green stamps, just like youie & slewie. as long as their checks don't bounce, they & the morgue do bidness, right?
there is so much fantasy and dungeons and dragons of finance going on here.
tunnels? well, the fed, until 1971, and still, is custodian for the US gold. i think. so, when, say, france sez: "we want out gold! here's yer styooopid green stamps, the gold went into their account, in NY. maybe thru the morgue, i dunno.
now, no currency in the world is backed by gold. if it were, it would be highly unlikely that banks would loan currency into existence which could be exchanged for PMs.
wait! dungeons & dragons, scooby dooby dooooo! buy gold & silver! wheee!
Better chance that since it is impossible for JPM to run out of government fiat that it will become irrelevant before it becomes insolvent.
In other words, you're just grateful to be back to tell us you've recovered a few percentage points of your crappy investment in ZSL the past 7 months. Welcome back.
So you are yet another paid troll who works for the banks/Fed/etc. who's job is to spew forth as much misinformation as possible 24/7 & clutter up the discussions at ZH? Good to know.
it is priceless that anyone could think the stupidity which presents on ZH is 'discussion'!!!
which bits do you think are misinformation? the idea of JPM being short a lot of silver, and the idea that it might send them bankrupt came from ZH. the idea that silver has doubled in the meantime and JPM is still going strong, is a plain fact.
anyway just to humour you, here is some more 'misinformation': the initial margin on silver has now been increased by about $10,000 per contract in a week. in the time that ZH and the other hereinbefore mutual cock fondling bloggers have been saying JPM is short silver, silver has increased by at least $25/oz, up to the $50 high. they would therefore have already stumped up the old initial margin (about 10,000) plus the unrealized loss (about $125,000) making a total of about $135,000 per contract. having to find an extra $10,000 would hardly make any difference if you were a bank that far underwater.
now, if we could only figure out how JPM is funding the near $300bn it must have tied up in comex margin and disguising this completely from its financial records. still, in the military/industrial/bitchez/bankster/chairsatan/treasury/obama/osama/bush/chaney conspiracy, i suppose anythign is possible.
alexanderstollznow = gold 36000. Just so's we all know who's who.
ad hominem = zero
paraphrasing: "when the voice is raised, the speaker has lost the conversation"
The cock fondling bloggers have been banging on that drum for more than a decade. This time is different. Burn it all down. Hit the reset button. Gold 36000 for president.
I kinda like the way Gold36000 is trying to cover his earlier fuckup by putting "Gold 36000 for president" in every post like its a sig. Why not put the whole post in? "Gold 36000 for president. We don't agree on everything, but we do have some common ground."
So the CME uses Viagra as well? The chart indicate so.
Boing!
you try performing in this economic climate. I'm suprised they aren't mainlining rhino powder and hot railing amyl nitrate.
I'm trying to brush up on my drug lingo. How's it working out?
I remember AN, little glass vials that didn't do squat.
Bad dealer.
Not sure you'll see this Augie. I planned for the USG confiscation of PM by obtaining a passport and spiriting the stuff to Canada. I have friends moving stuff about already. The USG will do everything in its power to keep you invested in worthless fiat which will occur as they try to maintain control over (their) your money.
I have some friends who's relatives live in Canada. If the USG bans sales of PM's, what do you think the impact on silver will be in terms of Canadian prices?