Daniel Ellsberg: “Secrets ... Can Be Kept Reliably ... For Decades … Even Though They Are Known to THOUSANDS of Insiders”

George Washington's picture

Washington’s Blog

Judges, prosecutors and journalists all know that collusion happens every day. As I noted last year:


Bernie Madoff's Ponzi scheme was a conspiracy. The heads of Enron were found guilty of conspiracy, as was the head of Adelphia. Numerous lower-level government officials have been found guilty of conspiracy. See this, this, this, this and this.


Time Magazine's financial columnist Justin Fox writes:

Some financial market conspiracies are real ...


Most good investigative reporters are conspiracy theorists, by the way.

Indeed, conspiracies are so common that judges are trained to look at conspiracy allegations as just another legal claim to be disproven or proven by the evidence.


As I pointed out in 2009:


Federal and all 50 state's codes include specific statutes addressing conspiracy, and providing the punishment for people who commit conspiracies.




is a very well-recognized crime in American law, taught to every
first-year law school student as part of their basic curriculum.
Telling a judge that someone has a "conspiracy theory" would be like
telling him that someone is claiming that he trespassed on their
property, or committed assault, or stole his car. It is a fundamental
legal concept.


Obviously, many
conspiracy allegations are false (if you see a judge at a dinner
party, ask him to tell you some of the crazy conspiracy allegations
which were made in his court).
Obviously, people will
either win or lose in court depending on whether or not they can prove
their claim with the available evidence.
But not all allegations of trespass, assault, or theft are true, either.


a claim of conspiracy is no different from proving any other legal
claim, and the mere label "conspiracy" is taken no less seriously by


Indeed, even Obama's information tzar - who advocates using the power of the state to shut down talk of conspiracies - admits:

conspiracy theories, under our definition, have turned out to be true
... The Watergate hotel room used by Democratic National Committee was,
in fact, bugged by Republican officials, operating at the behest of
the White House. In the 1950s, the CIA did, in fact, administer LSD and
related drugs under Project MKULTRA, in an effort to investigate the
possibility of 'mind control.'” [This post isn't going down the rabbit hole of mind control.]

Can't Hide It

accusing Goldman Sachs, Dick Cheney or some other powerful people of
conspiring to enrich their interests are often met with the argument
that "someone would have spilled the beans" if there had really been a

But famed whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg explains:

is a commonplace that "you can't keep secrets in Washington" or "in a
democracy, no matter how sensitive the secret, you're likely to read
it the next day in the New York Times." These truisms are flatly
false. They are in fact cover stories, ways of flattering and
misleading journalists and their readers, part of the process of
keeping secrets well. Of course eventually many secrets do get out
that wouldn't in a fully totalitarian society. But the fact is that
the overwhelming majority of secrets do not leak to the American
public. This is true even when the information withheld is well known
to an enemy and when it is clearly essential to the functioning of the
congressional war power and to any democratic control of foreign
policy. The reality unknown to the public and to most members of
Congress and the press is that secrets
that would be of the greatest import to many of them can be kept from
them reliably for decades by the executive branch, even though they
are known to thousands of insiders

History proves Ellsberg right. For example:

  • A BBC documentary shows that:

was "a planned coup in the USA in 1933 by a group of right-wing
American businessmen . . . . The coup was aimed at toppling President
Franklin D Roosevelt with the help of half-a-million war veterans. The
plotters, who were alleged to involve some of the most famous families
in America, (owners of Heinz, Birds Eye, Goodtea, Maxwell Hse &
George Bush’s Grandfather, Prescott) believed that their country should
adopt the policies of Hitler and Mussolini to beat the great

Moreover, "the tycoons told General Butler the American people would accept the new government because they controlled all the newspapers."
Have you ever heard of this conspiracy before? It was certainly a
very large one. And if the conspirators controlled the newspapers then, how much worse is it today with media consolidation?

  • The government's spying on Americans began before 9/11 (confirmed here and here. And see this.) But the public didn't learn about it until many years later. Indeed, the the New York Times delayed the story so that it would not affect the outcome of the 2004 presidential election
  • The decision to launch the Iraq war was made before 9/11. Indeed, former CIA director George Tenet said that the White House wanted to invade Iraq long before 9/11, and inserted "crap" in its justifications for invading Iraq. Former Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill - who sat on the National Security Council - also says that Bush planned the Iraq war before 9/11. And top British officials say that the U.S. discussed Iraq regime change one month after Bush took office. Dick Cheney apparently even made Iraqi's oil fields a national security priority before 9/11. And it has now been shown that a handful of people
    were responsible for willfully ignoring the evidence that Iraq lacked
    weapons of mass destruction. These facts have only been publicly
    disclosed recently

These examples show that it is possible to keep conspiracies secret for a long time, without anyone "spilling the beans".


anyone who knows how covert military operations work, it is obvious
that segmentation on a "need-to-know basis", along with deference to
command hierarchy, means that a couple of top dogs can call the shots
and most people helping won't even know the big picture.

those who think that co-conspirators will brag about their deeds are
forget that people in the military or intelligence or who have huge
sums of money on the line can be very disciplined. They are not likely
to go to the bar and spill the beans like a down-on-their-luck,
second-rate alcoholic robber might do.

Finally, people who carry
out covert operations may do so for ideological reasons -- believing
that the "ends justify the means". Never underestimate the conviction
of an idealogue.

"All Wars Are Based on Propaganda"

Tom Brokaw notes:

All wars are based on propaganda.

There are numerous examples, such as dressing corpses in fake uniforms and planting false intelligence on them to mislead enemies.

In addition, governments from around the world have admitted to
false flag terror. In all of these cases, more than a handful of
people were involved in planning, funding and carrying out the
attacks. And yet no one spilled the beans or – if someone did – they
were not believed.

For example:

  • The CIA admits
    that it hired Iranians in the 1950's to pose as Communists and stage
    bombings in Iran in order to turn the country against its
    democratically-elected prime minister
  • Israel admits
    that an Israeli terrorist cell operating in Egypt planted bombs in
    several buildings, including U.S. diplomatic facilities, then left
    behind "evidence" implicating the Arabs as the culprits (one of the
    bombs detonated prematurely, allowing the Egyptians to identify the
    bombers, and several of the Israelis later confessed) (and see this and this)
  • As admitted by
    the U.S. government, recently declassified documents show that in
    the 1960's, the American Joint Chiefs of Staff signed off on a plan
    to blow up AMERICAN airplanes (using an elaborate plan involving the switching of airplanes), and also to commit terrorist acts on American soil, and then to blame it on the Cubans in order to justify an invasion of Cuba. See the following ABC news report; the official documents; and watch this interview with
    the former Washington Investigative Producer for ABC's World News
    Tonight with Peter Jennings. Official State Department documents show
    that - only nine months before - the head of the Joint Chiefs of
    Staff and other high-level officials discussed blowing up a consulate in the Dominican Republic in order to justify an invasion of that country. (
    the Joint Chiefs of Staff pushed as a serious proposal for Operation
    Northwoods to be carried out, cooler heads fortunately prevailed;
    President Kennedy or his Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara
    apparently vetoed the plan)
  • The South African Truth and Reconciliation Council found
    that, in 1989, the Civil Cooperation Bureau (a covert branch of the
    South African Defense Force) approached an explosives expert and
    asked him "to participate in an operation aimed at discrediting
    the ANC [the African National Congress] by bombing the police vehicle
    of the investigating officer into the murder incident", thus
    framing the ANC for the bombing
  • An Algerian diplomat and several officers in the Algerian army admit
    that, in the 1990s, the Algerian army frequently massacred Algerian
    civilians and then blamed Islamic militants for the killings (and see
    this video; and Agence France-Presse, 9/27/2002, French Court Dismisses Algerian Defamation Suit Against Author)
  • Former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff General Hugh Shelton says that a Clinton cabinet member proposed letting Saddam kill an American pilot as a pretext for war in Iraq (and see this)
  • According to the Washington Post, Indonesian police admit that
    the Indonesian military killed American teachers in Papua in 2002
    and blamed the murders on a Papuan separatist group in order to get
    that group listed as a terrorist organization.
  • The well-respected former Indonesian president also admits that the government probably had a role in the Bali bombings
  • As reported by BBC, the New York Times, and Associated Press, Macedonian officials admit
    that the government murdered 7 innocent immigrants in cold blood and
    pretended that they were Al Qaeda soldiers attempting to assassinate
    Macedonian police, in order to join the "war on terror".
  • Former Department of Justice lawyer John Yoo suggested
    in 2005 that the US should go on the offensive against al-Qaeda,
    having “our intelligence agencies create a false terrorist
    organization. It could have its own websites, recruitment centers,
    training camps, and fundraising operations. It could launch fake
    terrorist operations and claim credit for real terrorist strikes,
    helping to sow confusion within al-Qaeda’s ranks, causing operatives to
    doubt others’ identities and to question the validity of
  • United Press International reported in June 2005:

    intelligence officers are reporting that some of the insurgents in
    Iraq are using recent-model Beretta 92 pistols, but the pistols seem
    to have had their serial numbers erased. The numbers do not appear to
    have been physically removed; the pistols seem to have come off a
    production line without any serial numbers. Analysts suggest the lack
    of serial numbers indicates that the weapons were intended for
    intelligence operations or terrorist cells with substantial government
    backing. Analysts speculate that these guns are probably from either
    Mossad or the CIA. Analysts
    speculate that agent provocateurs may be using the untraceable weapons
    even as U.S. authorities use insurgent attacks against civilians as
    evidence of the illegitimacy of the resistance

  • Quebec police admitted that, in 2007, thugs carrying rocks to a peaceful protest were actually undercover Quebec police officers
  • At the G20 protests in London in 2009, a British member of parliament saw plain clothes police officers attempting to incite the crowd to violence
  • There are many other instances of false flag attacks used throughout history proven by the historical evidence. See this, this and this.

summary, the claim that conspiracies couldn't have happened or else we
would have known when someone bragged about their deeds completely

Conspiracies are generally not discovered unless the facts are aggressively investigated and prosecuted.

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Dolemite's picture

Euro and stocks providing decent short entry

Gold looking to go up


MrPalladium's picture

GW, you must be on to something because you have amassed a rather spectacular collection of professional trolls.

You are to be congratulated!

Wear it like a badge of honor!

TonyForesta's picture

None of this is news.  Many truths and facts are lost or distorted by attaching the term derogotive "conspiracy theory" to thread or meme, or ivnestigation.   Stained with this unholy mark, the truth and fact are immediately dismissed by wingnuts in redneck Amerika, and the vast oceans of ignorant Amerikans, who can't name the Secratary of Defense.   The truth and fact looses oxygen, and disappears off the mainstream, and NOTHING CHANGES.    We know there were wargames mirroring 9/11 events on 9/11.  We know the bushgov spirited 140 Saudi nationals, including bin Laden family members around and out of the country when EVERY SINGLE AMERICAN WAS GROUNDED!    Our government and our corporate leaders, and our media commandants are a den of vipers and thieves who worship and serve the predatorclass alone and singularly, and hold absolutely zero concern for the rest of us plebes, 99% of the population. 


Buckle up, and put your trays in the upright and fixed position.  We're about toe enter some turbulance.

Lord Koos's picture

Regarding 911 -- have you ever noticed that unlike the victims of the WTC towers collapse, we never hear about any memorials for the passengers of the airplanes that were hijacked?  Also you never see interviews with any relatives of those who supposedly died on those flights.  I personally think that the planes were automated or were drones and that a lot of details may have been created out of thin air.  The "let's roll" phone call included.

The truth is hiding in plain sight.

High Plains Drifter's picture


now that you mention it, some people have been going down the passenger list and investigating these people. interesting stuff.

scott beamer ( the let's roll guy) made phone calls on his cell phone after he was supposed to be dead?

lisa beamer, his grieving widow, making out like a fat rat, soon after his "death" ..

on and on it goes.......

were there any passengers, real passengers on any planes that day? who knows........

High Wire's picture

Thank you for the post George Washington.

To the zerohedge administration, please don't let the Trolls take over the site.  I've seen so many nice conversations fall to the hands of the 'Operation Earnest Voice' brigade.  Completely unmoderated sites always fall to those who care least about them.

MrPalladium's picture

They are!! Strident, coordinated trolling  like the above does not happen by accident.

Having one operative display 5 or 6 different personas makes control of the internet much more economical.

Fiat2Zero's picture

I agree there are conspiracies going on all the time. Most are of little interest to the vast swaths of humanity.

GW, you've given some interesting historical examples of conspiracies that changed the course of human history - the Manhattan Project is a great one.

When someone says "what are you, a conspiracy theorist?" It's just an ad hominem attack. A way of turning off the brain and scoring some points. There is likely some social programming that goes into making us believe that such conspiracies are ludicrous, low probability events.

Disinformation is particularly useful to taint an entire subject with ridicule.

If you don't believe in conspiracies, you're operating on a fairly low-level - the samsara. The obvious.

However, to those who ferret out conspiracies, I would say "don't assume a conspiracy is responsible where sheer human stupidity will suffice as an adequate explanation." This may apply to the people currently running things (yes, yes, I know, they are just the puppets...)

I also find ZH is crammed full of fake replicant posters who are obviously paid, who else would post such knee jerk drivel, consistently? Anything with Sprott, Silver, Commodities in the title is like ringing the Pavlovian bell for the replicants to salivate.

CIABS's picture

Fiat2Zero, there is plenty of incompetence and stupidity, but as i'm sure you know, those things are often used to mask the fact that the main outcomes are planned (when they are planned).  there should be a fairly high burden of proof for an argument that a big event was caused by someone's incompetence and was not planned.

High Plains Drifter's picture

the kahuna on cnbc just said that mark haines was talking about the towers on 911, then there was a lot of smoke and then the towers weren't there anymore? well where did the towers go? why did they just turn to dust right before our eyes?  what did this kahuna?

High Plains Drifter's picture

marki was the voice of reason that day..........oooooooooohhhhhhhh yehhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!


i remember hearing rather say about building 7..........damn that looks like a demolition.......oooooooooooohhhhhhh yeh.............


look closely at those videos.......he is talking about towers collapsing but those towers are not collapsing, they are turning to dust......notice what seems to be almost like a pyroclastic flow, if you will,  is going the inside out

people and things disappearing before her eyes, but eyewitnesses that were there.


oxygen tanks in fire trucks exploding? why would they do this? what was causing this?

what would cause a 270 ton beam to be hurled across the freeway and it imbeds itself in another building?


red cross told first responder to stand behind the line. they are about to bring the building down (wtc 7)...he heard the countdown........hello come in.????



what kind of technology can turn things such as concrete and metals to dust?
i really don't think we are talking about thermite, nor nuclear or of course tnt etc. so what did this? something we don't know about perhaps?

CIABS's picture

that's the usual pattern.  when these events are in progress or have just happened, lots of reporters and commentators say things that are much closer to the truth than they do later, when the false official story congeals.  dan rather talked about building demolition that day.

George Washington's picture

Several months after 9/11, Dan Rather told the BBC that American reporters were practicing "a form of self-censorship":

There was a time in South Africa that people would put flaming tires around peoples' necks if they dissented. And in some ways the fear is that you will be necklaced here, you will have a flaming tire of lack of patriotism put around your neck. Now it is that fear that keeps journalists from asking the toughest of the tough questions.... And again, I am humbled to say, I do not except myself from this criticism.


What we are talking about here - whether one wants to recognise it or not, or call it by its proper name or not - is a form of self-censorship.

HellFish's picture

LOL. Seriously, you're using Dan Rather as a source?  LOL.

High Plains Drifter's picture

what do you mean?  dan rather was on national television and this is what he said. do you see it? can you hear it?  what did the man say?  this is what i mean. you give them evidence and they just can't see it or hear it......amazing........just amazing........

High Plains Drifter's picture

yeh dano, the building was destroyed by well placed dynamite to deliberately bring it down.......oh my...........


are we nutty in this country or what?  there it is , right in front of your face and many still do not believe it.......it is in plain sight...........and nobody "sees" it......amazing country we live in. amazing......maybe people are drinking too much flouride in the water  or something....

High Plains Drifter's picture

agreed. they don't have time yet to get their stories straight. same thing happened in ok city. news broadcasters were saying bombs were in the buildings and that there were secondary explosions etc. so the rent truck and the two "militia" people were just patsies....used to cover up what was really going on.

CIABS's picture

yep, and many other events.  i believe john chancellor reported some uncomfortable stuff shortly after the reagan shooting, and a year later he lost his nightly anchor job.

YHC-FTSE's picture

I don't know why people have such trouble understanding the blindingly obvious. There are organizations, corporate entities, and clubs that keep secrets very well. 


By Tradition (where generations become members), By Law (Contractual - whether in government official secret acts or court appointed injunctions or "D" notices - media blackout on a story), and By Coercion (Least reliable), or a combination of all of the above, there have been secret organizations for as long as the words were invented. It's merely a part of the human desire for disenfranchisement, exclusivity, and self-important egos. When I was at college, I was a member of at least a couple, only because they served the best booze.


It is a common fallacy that large organizations cannot keep secrets. NASA kept a whopper for almost 3 decades. (True story: The 1969 Apollo 11 moon mission when "Buzz" Aldrin reportedly saw a UFO. Walther Kronkite even went on record about a coverup at NASA, and when the story leaked, obvious fake UFO's and fake transmissions were produced for the public which made the whole thing the province of nutjobs and fakes, and the important message was lost - that members of the Apollo mission DID see something unexplainable and unidentifiable on their mission and they were forbidden to talk about it. The whole incident was lost from the public consciousness for over three decades until recently, when Aldrin was finally given legal permission to talk about his mission). At least a few thousand people knew about this at NASA and elsewhere, but not the general public. It doesn't matter whether it was a piece of space debris or an alien space craft - I personally think it was just a piece of their own space craft-  the lesson is, they were able to keep a secret of such magnitude for so long.

Buzz Aldrin:


Story of Apollo 11 & UFO story debunked.




This is very similar to all the 911 fake fantasy crap that attempt to detract from the true story of that day (Which I believe to be an inside job), to distract and discourage people from investigating further. NASA is merely mostly a civilian outfit, but the US military have much more stringent rules. They could keep anything secret forever, unless a whistleblower wants to risk his career, life, and freedom.

moneymutt's picture

GW - how bout two pop culture examples - Tiger and Arnold, in Tiger's case literally thousands of people knew he was a womanizer, the many mistresses, no doubt mistresses bragged to friends and families, the golf press corps knew, the tabloids knew etc...and same goes for Arnold. In both cases, even tho many knew and did not broadcast, they also both proactively worked the press and tabloids to keep any stories from going mainstream. Tiger gave a mag a front cover story. Arnold/muscle mags went into business with tabloids. What would sell media more than a celebrity sex scandal? They are much more interesting than money laundering, financial fraud, internation schemes and easy to explain. And yet these both these sex scandals kept under wraps for more than a decade.

falak pema's picture

power-money-sex is the combination of our society. Hk said he only felt sexy when he smelt of military power play diplomacy, it drove his libido...he invaded first Cambodia then Chile (not Poland). But then nobody was interested in his sex life! Or maybe he hid it well!

strannick's picture

Yeah, its sad but true.

Like in the silver manipulation. Sure JPMorgan and the CFTC are getting away with it (position limits to be revisited in 2013, endless 'investigation', ect.) but why would you want to be part of it?

Would you want to participate in the downfall of the greatest nation in history? 'What does it profit a man...'. Dont these people have to read their children stories??

High Plains Drifter's picture

jerome corsi is a intelligence asset for israhole. his job is to play up this muslim attack probablility and other situations in order to mislead and to cause fear and to provide cover for any possible mossad black operations that would be done in the near future, such as the assassination of obama. if any of you may remember, i brought up the possibility and the question not long before obama was elected , that i feared for this man's life. now think about it. if obama was assassinated, what would happen? well there would be immediate race war , here, and of course this would be blamed on whitey, because as we all now , whitey hates america's first black president. i fear this is being set up now , over this situation in palestine.

mark dankof


jeff gates


Orly's picture

Which brings me back 'round full-circle to my question about the whole birth certificate thing.

If Corsi is working for Israel/Mossad, then he is going about the business of methodically taking down Obama.  The White House deliberately put out a clearly badly forged document.  I think it is clear that Obama didn't know how bad the forgery was, especially when there were people telling him that is would pass the smell test easily.

Now, Corsi is on the radio saying that Obama couldn't go outside his circle of friends lest he risk leaks.  Well, if CIA helped put him in office, then why couldn't they have produced the fake cert?  Or did they- only create a bad cert on purpose?  So Corsi is finding convenient excuses for Obama putting out a really bad document that could have been done by some spook pro at Langley in his sleep.

This was all done to set Barry up as a stooge.  Not to kill him.

What are your thoughts on this idea?

High Plains Drifter's picture

well is he really methodically taking down the president?  also, who controls the larging printing houses in this country?  if they didn't like what he said, they would not allow him to print it. he does write a lot of books and he gets around.  if you notice they dusted off trump like he was last years news, a few weeks ago. and for the most part, he is off the radar screen. he said, oh, i like my real estate ventures and i really don't like politics that much. yeh sure. and we had people who would fall on their sword for that idiot in this country. that shows you, that no matter what they say about obama, he will still be elected. nobody cares and nobody knows. and nobody understands.  the whole situation is a joke. and the joke is on us.  therefore, obama will be the next president again because it is written.......

Orly's picture

Breaking news:


Now, Trump and Corsi are bestest buds again and Trump has come out today to say that he thinks the document is a fake and that he may re-enter the presidential race.

Just when you thought this stuff couldn't possibly get more bizarre...

CIABS's picture

we don't know for sure about obama's birth, and they botched the oath of office.  then, as i recall, they botched the re-do of the oath of office.  we're still under continuity of government, and we're still in a state of war (which might go back a number of decades).  and i think we might also be in a state of emergency.  we don't really know what's up, and we (the public) definitely don't know what the law is, what law is in force, if any, and so on.

not everyone likes obama.  there are parties who will benefit much more with a republican replacing obama in 2012, but obama has made and kept some very powerful friends.  on balance, i think they'll keep him.  the birth issue (and maybe the oath issue, and others) were and are there to give them leverage over him.  but they'll probably keep him, and he'll probably continue to confirm the wisdom of doing so.

i don't know, but it won't surprise me if they keep propping up equities, if not pushing them higher, until right around, oh, september 2012, so as to be in position to use them again in case they decide to try a new president.

Vendetta's picture

It was just an accident that $26 trillion of world wealth was destroyed in the space of a few months in 2008.  No conspiracy there .. just an accident ... move along.

CIABS's picture

the 2008 crash, specifically the takedown of lehman, was timed to affect the presidential election.  those who think obama is a leftist are dupes.

aerial view's picture

nice post GW.

We wanted to believe that America was different and would conduct itself according to the Constitution as well as the moral principles of truth, honesty, justice and equality. And we are here today because 99% of Americans still don't get it or don't care and of those 1% who do get it, 99% of those don't know what to do about it. We need a plan!

High Plains Drifter's picture

step number 1.


massive civil disobedience..........right now and lasting as long as it takes...........


i am not going to talk about step number 2. no need.......

falak pema's picture

change your arithmetic or no plan...

cranky-old-geezer's picture

Interesting how GW does the same fraudulent shit he writes long (boring) essays about.

It's called hypocrisy I believe.

falak pema's picture

you remind me of the crank shaft i saw in the movies...it made a lot of noise and caused a lot of wrist and arm action...do you wear a Charley Chaplin hat?

FunkyMonkeyBoy's picture

George Washington,

I saw this today, you might be interested too. It concerns a British school examination paper and some implanted 9/11 symbolism:


Obviously, just looking at it from a statistical probability point of view, this is highly improbable... therefore was deliberate. 

Original doc here:


Your thoughts on this?

Foul Ole Ron's picture

Of course it was deliberate you fucking tool. Somebody who did the artwork for the GCSE's was taking the piss. Even if the Illuminati did exist I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be bothered about inserting some symbolism into the middle of an exam paper that kids are rushing to get done on time and more than likely wouldn't notice at all.

FunkyMonkeyBoy's picture

Well, er, obviously at least one 'kid' did notice it...

... and of course, you ignore the exam paper number... which is separate to the illustration.

It's just another in a long list of symbolism to 9/11 found in movies, t.v. shows, news media... all the same outlets that openly suppress any notion of people questioning the 'official 9/11 story'.

Foul Ole Ron's picture

Yes. The Illuminati or somesuch shadowy organisation are putting symbolism into the exams of GCSE students in the UK who were 3 years old when 9/11 happened. Yep, that sounds about right. Got to stop the 13 year olds questioning 9/11. Brilliant plan. Jesus Christ get a grip.

FunkyMonkeyBoy's picture

I think the fact that you're trying to state that the people behind 9/11 and those putting obvious symbolism in various media as sane and rational and their actions should be judged as so, is where your argument about 'getting a grip' and 'yep, that sounds about right'.

These people are clearly insane genocidal maniacs and their actions should be judged with this in mind, not from the mindset of what a 'normal' person would do.

Vic Vinegar's picture

Since I don’t think you are going to change F.O.R.’s mind, allow me to opine:

I’ve seen the 9/11 symbolism in movies, etc. and a lot of it is unsettling.  Whether it is a coincidence or deliberate, what does it matter?  It’s not really actionable in any way, is it? 

Vic Vinegar's picture

This shadowy organization has a name: Cobra.  You ever see Cobra Commander's face?  Yeah, didn't think so.


bubba1231's picture


You pathetic fool.  Again - all your nonsense quotes are irrelevant.  Instead of insinuation - tell us - what is your theory about 9/11.  Are you saying outright that the US govt murdered its citizens.  Are you saying those buildings had explosives put into them beforehand?  So all those explosives were laid but how many people?  And than the planes were hijacked - by who?  Idiot.  Plain and simple your an idiot.  Anf what does the constituion have to do with bold faced lying on your part?

indio007's picture

No one needs a theory of what did happen to falsify the government fable. We know what didn't happen. 

Your just trying to get GW to put forth a competing fable to falsify yourself.

Your tactics are transparent and lame.