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Eliot Spitzer Discusses The Cataclysm Of 2008-2009
Whether you love or hate Eliot Spitzer, the former New York Attorney General and Governor of New York State usually introduces perspectives as both a former politician and activist which are relevant, and in our day and age unprecedented Wall Street-D.C. corruption, very necessary. His daily appearances on the Dylan Ratigan show provide a much needed exposition on the extreme commingling of power and financial interests, that has become the norm as an ultra-small conformist minority in America controls the vast majority of the wealth of not only this country, but the entire world. The Fora.tv presentation below from Spitzer's recent appearance at the Commonwealth Club provides a crash course to anyone who wishes to catch up with the views of the disgraced governor who has slowly attempted to restore his public image as a political and financial activist. Can he restore his image? If he continues to expose the glaring corruption and brings attention to the at times criminal conflicts of interest, we believe the answer is yes.
Presentation highlights:
The full presentation can be seen here, while the individual segments are as follows:
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nice debate, your fair because you believe in free men and free markets, could we add free women? i think we should discuss The Good Wife, a little more relevent.
Women were never excluded, take off those lenses, they distort everything you see.
you da' man!!!
For those of you railing against Spitzer, I ask you this: Does the end justify the means?
Honestly, who else could even potentially come close to bringing down the crooks of Wall Street and DC, which many of you so detest?
Who, you, personally? Don't make us laugh. Short of some Average Joe literally murdering a crook in cold blood to "teach the rest of them a lesson," sometimes one must rally behind a potentially less-than-perfect force -- one which actually has a good shot at getting the job done of locking up these crooks and throwing away the key.
But, if you know of somebody who could the same as Spitzer, then by all means, please enlighten us.
Instead of reinstating somebody thats questionable why not put somebody in that hasn't gone through the corruption path to get to the top. There are honest patriotic people that could and would do the job effectively but are usually filtered out or quit in disgust.
"In his influential Commentaries on the Constitution, Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story (1811-1845; the intellectual mate of Chief Justice John Marshall) explained: "The offenses to which the remedy of impeachment has been and will continue to be principally applied are of a political nature...[W]hat are aptly termed political offenses, growing out of personal misconduct, or gross neglect, or usurpation, or habitual disregard of the public interests."
James Madison explained the requirement for impeachment during the debates of the Constitutional Convention of 1787: "[S]ome provision should be made for defending the community against the incapacity, negligence, or perfidy of the chief magistrate. He might pervert his administration into a scheme of peculation or oppression. He might betray his trust to foreign powers."
Alexander Hamilton explained in The Federalist Papers (No. 65) that impeachment of the president should take place for "offenses which proceed from the misconduct of public men, or in other words, from the abuse or violation of some public trust. They are of a nature which may with peculiar propriety be denominated political, as they relate chiefly to injuries done immediately to society itself."
And, in The Federalist Papers (No. 70), Hamilton further explained: "Men in public trust will much oftener act in such a manner as to render them unworthy of being any longer trusted, than in such a manner as to make them obnoxious (subject) to legal punishment."
In short, one of the aims of the constitution was to ensure that virtuous men would become the nation's leaders, and impeachment was merely the remedy for those public servants whose misconduct resulted in betrayal of the public trust..."*
How can those who hold high office (in this case the governor of a large and populous state), who willfully prosecutes and imprisons citizens for breaking a law that the officer holder himself is braking, does not then qualify as a violation of the public trust and abuse of high office, is beyond me. What leads to further incredulity, is that such a person would be defended and promoted by those who claim to be against such violations of trust, office law and duty.
* - http://www.haciendapub.com/edcor4.html
+100 and exactly on point.
Good points, well taken.
Isn't the irony of using Hamilton as an example here just a wee bit odoriferous?
I was going to say something, but at times I'd rather read more than respond:
you are so sexy when you speak italiano.
Not sure where to put this note under Cataclysm of 2008 --- 2009 or GOLDMAN. Figured CATACLYSM was of a larger scope, so the reference will fit snugly within.
This is a link to a NYTimes article via HuffPo which details the genesis of the late, GREAT Bloomberg reporter Mark Pittman's (R.I.P.) lawsuit against the FED.
Interestingly, the case has gotten larger than just BLOOMBERG squaring off against the FED, something that I had definitely missed. Per the article,
"On one side are the news media — among them The Associated Press, The Wall Street Journal and The New York Times, which also has a FOIA bailout suit and has agreed to be bound by the Second Circuit ruling. On the other side are the banks — JPMorgan Chase, Citibank, Bank of America and others — which, of course, have fallen in behind the FED."
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/14/nyregion/14fed.html?partner=rss&emc=rss
I am surprised to see Zero Hedge spouting things like Elliot Spitzer is "disgraced". The guy had to step down because he was caught soliciting a prostitute. Big effing deal! Unless you're a whackjob religious fundamentalist no one really cares. Spitzer was hated by Wall Street bankers for the simple reason he spent his career cracking down hard on them. Cuomo is doing some things, but he's no Spitzer. If there is any hope of seeing our elected officials actually do their job and crack down on Wall Street it will come from guys like Elliot Spitzer or Alan Grayson.
Take the time to view Spitzer's entire speech and question-answer. Use your head and ask what his underlying values/principles are, and are they really true, really viable?
First he criticizes Greenspan/Bernanke as being Ayn Randian. This criticism evidences Spitzer knows nothing about Ayn Rand. Rand cannot be held to account for the current financial collapse due to fiat currency. That is absurd. Rand believed in the gold standard for the precise reason that it provides a discipline that does not allow the excessive leverage that has led to the current financial crisis.
When Bernanke-Geithner-Frank-Obama-McCain allowed taxpayers to bail out TBTFs, that wasn't Ayn Rand's idea. Spitzer's comments are so convolutedly off-base as to be laughable. But more to the point, despite Spitzer's frequent dropping of names (and books that he's read and is recommending), HE HASN'T READ ATLAS SHRUGGED. His mind is too tiny. He is uninformed, so why listen to him on this?
This financial crisis has been cause by bailing out the insolvents. Had we not done so (bernanke has no balls) we would have been through this recession by now and economic growth would have already resumed.
Spitzer wants government to "ensure integrity" in the market?? LOL!!! Now, it's all I can do to refrain from comment about Spitzer's qualification to speak about integrity, but in deference to A Vishinsky and MSCreant, I'll just let that one lay there.
Spitzer sets up "self regulation" as a strawman that Rand would approve of then blows it down. Gee, that's really powerful--blowing over a strawman. Self-regulation in a market of derivatives--now that's a Rand worldview if I ever heard one. Oh, wait a minute, you mean Rand really did want gold as money, and derivatives really weren't in that picture? Hmm........are you sure?.........Really? Guess I'll have to read her book after all.
Spitzer can talk so fast and so so convincingly, he's convinced himself. He's convinced about global warming too. 'Nuff said on that.
Spitzer's against discrimination. It's one of our "core values." Please tell me how being discriminating leads to systemic risk. The minimum wage is a "core value." Please tell me how the lack of a minimum wage hike every few years would lead to systemic risk.
He talks a lot about laws that will "reform" the financial sector. But since those so far proposed WOULDN'T HAVE PREVENTED THE CURRENT FINANCIAL MELTDOWN, don't these proposals just amount to growing a bigger controlling central government?
Spitzer is confused. He has no real answers. Go ahead, eliminate banks prop trading desks, so what? Are you still going to let them fail if they screw up? Well, no......
Spitzer has no idea how to create jobs, or how to let anyone fail. If we're going to have a global economy--and we are--you better get a good education and think about not being a laborer. After all, capital will go where it is welcome (and labor isn't portable--on that point I'll have to agree with a perceptive Spitzer).
At least Spitzer got a few things right. Geithner failed. But other than that, no one in Spitzer's world will be allowed to fail--did you notice that?
I think Nixon screwed up America's responsibility to the world by revoking the gold standard as the world's reserve currency.
Spitzer hopiums that currency manipulations/environmental laws will bring jobs back to the US. Never mind that unions have priced their laborers outtta the world market--don't mention that. In the end Spitzer is arguing against free trade without admitting it. Once disingenuous, always disingenuous.
Again, I think Spitzer really believes what he's saying. You'd think he would welcome a critique of his thinking...like this one. OK, to be fair, I'll listen to yor critiques, ZHers. Would the reinstitution of A Rand gold standard currency avoid all this mess? Let's hear it.
i really think SWRichmond can take over now, with his intense interest in these particular individuals that you are mentioning. keep posting babe, again it is late and apollo ono takes the silver, koreans wiped out except 1 got the gold. we are happy for them.
That was something, korean ice bowling. Thought all three had it, was glad our skaters kept going and avoided the pile up. Kinda like biking, eh Velo?
thank god for sports. isn't it funny comparisons of the olympics taking home the gold AU, or the AG, bronze? personally i only thought of bringing home this kind of gold, but now reading on ZH their are other coveted reasons for having precious metals.
and the only time i wanted to bear arms was doing the biathlon. funny historically the americans have always sucked at the biathlon, but we rank highest in gun ownership.
epic, american spillane takes silver in nordic combined, i don't think america has ever medaled in this event.
david duval busting a move into 2nd, knew you still had it, maybe you can replace tiger.
I disagree with a lot of his talk. In fact, I disagree with most of it; he is Liberal with a capital "L". However, I believe the public revelation of his troubles ties directly to his earlier involvement with AIG; he mentions AIG at the end of his talk. I do not seek to assist him in reinvigorating his career.
I believe he has a lot of firsthand knowledge about AIG and could be extremely useful in that regard. He could be one of the few public people on the planet who looked at it closely, and early, from the outside. He didn't like what he saw, and he said so, and then he (at least publicly) tried to do something about it. And then he got taken down. He was the perfect target for a discrediting. Most of you bought it.
So as I stated earlier, I am willing to consider assistance from him in this. I am also willing to consider the assistance of Elizabeth Warren, another cap-"L" Liberal (at least she comes off as one). As I have stated elsewhere, we can get back to arguing among ourselves once we have routed out the bank cartel that runs this country.
Here, under leave of Blankfein and the rest
- For Blankfein is an honourable man;
So are they all, all honourable men
- Come I to speak in Spitzer's funeral.
I didn't watch the whole thing, but I really enjoyed watching what I did. Your points, however, are extremely valid in my worldview - which causes me to realize how dishonest I was with myself in evaluating him, not as a good person that just made a mistake, but as a photo negative of what he actually is. He praised Bernanke's integrity! LOL. And he thinks China is digging the world out of this recession! I thought it was a little hinky.
The whole prostitute scenario seemed fishy to me in the first place. If he really does run for a major office by 2012 I will not be surprised - Spitzer: The New Hope. At least that is how they will try to sell him; not with those exact words.
Thanks for watching the whole thing and adding your thoughts.
Wow... http://www.topix.net/redir/loc=prss-myway/http=3A=2F=2F...
I've already made up Spitz for Prez 2012 bumper stickers.
Eliot Spitzer does an all too human thing and he is castigated and run from an office for which he was damaged but still more capable than most. His wife and family suffer for his mistakes. We who are with sin cast lots of stones.
Goldman Sachs puts together a package of the worst trash in existence and sells it to some backwater clown who is managing the pension assets of men and women with small children to feed. Goldman immediately shorts the very paper it sold, or at least buys CDS' on it, knowing it will fail and the buyer will suffer, or rather the buyer's clients will suffer. Record bonuses and endless taxpayer assistance is the "punishment".
If we are going to be all high and mighty moral, we might at least try to be consistent.
Or we could take a lesson from the French, who couldn't care less about someone's peccadilloes. Jacques Chirac has long maintained, with France's full knowledge, a Japanese second wife and family in Kyoto. It never harmed his career.
Sometimes it is better to take competence where you can get it, remembering the old saying "if my demons leave me I fear my angels will soon follow".
If millions of Americans can believe that evolution, the Presiden't US citizenship, 9/11, the Arctic melting away, and the Harvard comma are dubious, can I suspect that Spitzer's downfall was from fabricated evidence?
Just this little bit of doubt? Please?
p.s. -30 * 32 is more than 3 digits.
what pravda on the chuck, isn't going to save us!
Elliot Spitzer is our best hope and their worsst nightmare.
The criminals work by using the unexposed conduct of politicians as leverage to maintain control over them. In virtually all instances.
Spitzer, having been exposed, and his life being in tatters has resulted in the destruction of their leverage over him and given him a huge reason to hit them back. In fact, it will rehabilitate him.
Good all around.
Go Elliot.
Good discussion on this thread. The hypocrisy angle has me hung up. I may want a knowledgeable warrior so bad that I am going into denial about who this character really is. And I will say this, I have watched him in other programs "apologize" and "accept responsibility" for his offense, but he sounds like he is spouting strategic words, logically placed, knowing they are the right thing to say, but not very felt AT ALL. That registered on my BS radar very clearly and I consciously overlooked it and told myself that while he does not really get it yet, about what he did, that perhaps on the path he is on, he will evolve into it.
Some of the comments here brought back that impression. Seeing him almost jump out of his chair when a commentator said his crime didn't matter and was unrelated to the job he was doing, and that he was set up. You could see Spitzer wanted to jump on that and agree with it pretty badly, but then held his own choke collar and said, "I won't comment about that, I'll just say that I take responsibility for what I did and not say anything else."
Spitzer could become an awesome journalist/investigative reporter. That would be very acceptable in my book. His credibility in that role might actually be enhanced because of his background.
Is this not where the frontline of this war is being fought?
what's to discuss here? Spitz or Swallows is a non-starter. Period. He'll use your (our) issue just like he used those whores.
Spitzer could become an awesome journalist/investigative reporter. He needs to go away; our cause will not be well served by this guy. Nothing he says or does can be trusted. What in the world is TD thinking?
He would definitely be the big kid on the block as a journalist: nothing but haymakers and uppercuts! I can't say I've followed him closely enough to perceive where his real loyalties lie - I like your idea that he would at least be presenting the public incisive information. I always saw him as this white knight - and his infidelity still didn't really affect my overall perception - but other posters have made some very salient posts about his true character - which bring me back to my default mistrust of just about anyone in public office.
Maybe so many others here post that they are disgusted with him because they have always felt this way. This isn't HuffPo so I don't imagine fellow ZHer's negative views being focused on his sexual indiscretion. What hasn't Spitzer been caught doing? The hooker thing just doesn't add up either way - pretty damn careless.
Have Spitzer apply his many talents for identifying crimes, building cases, charging and prosecuting either as a junior prosecutor or as a advisory contractor.
His talents may then be dedicated to the public weal while the temptations running to the abuse of power would be beyond his grasp.
That way he could be a true public servant. His ego might suffer somewhat and others might take the lionshare of credit, but if he is a true public servant, its welfare would be adequately defended.
miscreant they all lie, remember i won't come in your mouth.
i just saw him in a interview and flat out said he was not interested in any position, ny comptroller, ag nothing in the public sector. he is teaching at a small ny university forget name and said he is really enjoying that as well as a family business venture.
He is at NYU...not considered a small university, fyi.
Been hangin' over at Pandagon?
kiss kiss, my kind of site, thanx§
I guessed as much, but it wasn't meant as a recommendation, more of a pejorative.
+1
This site is wonderful, in that we refuse bullshit left/right paradigms.
Clear thinking only.
His "family business venture" is a massive real estate empire. He would never run again because he could never get elected in New York State or city. He wouldn't even get recognition from the Democratic party. The details of what he did, as I said, are not merely getting caught seeing hookers or his sordid history going back to his teens with high-end hookers that came out but, the myriad of federal offenses he committed and tried to get banks and individuals to commit in the process of trying to cover his tracks.
Like he also said, he loved being in elected office. He loved being in government. He was never more animated during that whole, over an hour, presentation as when he was saying that but, it's the reasons I've stated above that will definitely keep him from ever being in public office of any sort again.
"I won't comment about that, I'll just say that I take responsibility for what I did and not say anything else."
And that is as far as he has ever gone in "admitting" anything about the whole incident which includes trying to coerce JPMorgan Chase into the crime of not reporting his transfers of monies to the brothel that, by law, due to the amounts, had to be reported to the IRS and the Federales via the Patriot Act and the RICO Act. He committed a slew of federal offenses that he tried to cover as well as tried to use his power as Governor to force others to cover which would have put them at risk of felony jail time and heavy fines.
I agree with you and almost posted something similar yesterday in regards to him becoming an independent actor if he truly feels he has something to contribute. I was going to use Henry Blodgett as an example he could follow but, I didn't want to get too far off the points I wanted to make about the Spitzer's unfitness for public office that it seems many here didn't bother to look into even slightly. Blodgett, while not going to jail, committed offenses regarding fraud as an Analyst to Merrill Lynch's clients and the public in general through his high profiles interviews, that should, in my opinion, keep him out of the brokerage business for the rest of his life. I believe he is under a lifetime ban. That being said, and much to my surprise, he has redeemed himself in many ways as a journalist in my opinion. His TickerSense videos on Yahoo and his own blog site has become a must read for me. You might ask "why would I be interested in someone who lied in the past as an analyst?" Because, as a journalist, he interviews and lets others speak. He makes commentary that he backs up with reasoned thinking I can judge for myself and he uses facts as opposed to made up projections that one had to trust in with stock analysts. I still don't think he should ever be allowed back into the brokerage business due to the degree of his betrayal of trust but, in his present recreation, like I said, I find him very useful for fundamental context behind my TA based trading methods.
Spitzer got off too lightly but, that's how politics and crime goes most times. I don't think, as I've already said, he should ever be allowed in elected or appointed public office again. I expect there is really little chance of that anyway. Those in New York State know the details of his crimes, that it wasn't merely Captain America being caught with a hooker. That being said, if he is sincere in his interest in being an actor in what is going on instead of merely a member of the Peanut Gallery giving well presented regurgitations of everything you know already anyway, then I would be happy to see him do that. He is fabulously wealthy via his family's real estate empire. He has the money and the time to do it if he wanted to.
I am suspicious of him though. I never hear him say anything that makes me think, "Wow! That's a solution I never thought of." As I've never heard him in any presentation give any specific solutions anyway or, "Wow! I never knew or thought of it that way." Think about it, outside of a polished presentation, did you really hear anything you didn't know or have already heard in some way already?
One example, he talks about AIG but, what did he say that was new? What was interesting was what he didn't say about AIG like how they were selling insurance on toxic paper well beyond what they could cover. They were selling insurance on CDO's like Max Bayalistock was selling shares in his play "Springtime For Hitler" in "The Producers." Did Spitzer bring that up or why, there have been no criminal indictments regarding that more than tiny bit of fraud?
What I saw was mostly, a polished presentation with not much substance or specifics to it when you separate what was said from the polished presentation. I also found him really pretty much agreeing with the governments' approach to TARP and other actions. Sure he said, they could have gotten more from the banks in payback but, he didn't say how much or how...Peanut Gallery stuff.
fascinating take, my scales are tipping now as well. i love clusterfuck, keep my refresh button hot. i like the spin and humor, covers more than just finance, like green sheet a lot. blodgett's story is interesting reminds me a little of boyd jefferies, you guys are probably too young to know about him. i knew him when he went into exile and came to aspen like all the white collar criminals did, to do their community service and than fake their heart attacks. i could give you more.
?
Either English is not your native tongue or you are exposing yourself intentionally.
honey, i am not exposing myself, i am exposing aspen for the true crook it has become.
Boyd L. Jefferies Dies at 70 - Headed Institutional Broker ... The Trials And Errors Of Boyd Jefferies - NYTimes.com Faces In The News: Aug 27, 2001 - Forbes.com plus i got a bag over my face just how i like it.Just checkin'.
Milbank,
You have been a gentleman and very thorough. This is the way to disagree with someone, back it up with checkable facts and no need to be ugly. This kind of exchange is what this blog can be at its best.
Thank you sir for taking the time to walk us through your point of view. Beyond this issue, there may be a template regarding how I tend to perceive things that may need adjusting. I will always seek to be compassionate but there are times where a line must be drawn and boundaries maintained. Fool me twice, shame on me, is an oldie but goodie for a reason. I do believe in redemption though. But if one is truly redeemed, you will have peace with the reason others cannot trust you anymore, and you will go about the job of making amends through less formal channels. One would do that because one would understand, "It's not about me, it is about the cause."
Hope that was clear.
See you around the blog. ;-) Benefited from the exchange.
Thanks for the kind words MsCreant. It means a lot coming from someone who I have admired here at ZH. I should tell you, I'm am also into and more fun than this when drinking Stout myself. In fact I consider St. James Gate, Dublin 8 my "Mecca."
I found this site this past March and look in multiple times daily but, I don't post here all that much.
You can find me posting more at Traders-Talk where I'm also a moderator.
I agree with you regarding compassion and redemption. Unfortunately, one does not earn redemption through being given again or getting to keep what one wasted ala SC's Sanford's idea of it.
In the early sixties there was a large scandal in England called the Profumo scandal involving Secretary of War John Profumo. It rocked England. His life after that until he died in 2006 reflected a life devoted to working towards redemption.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Profumo
I was alive at that time but, my focus was more on Captain Kangaroo and going to the bathroom by myself than world events. ;-)
I don't think Spitzer has to go as far as Profumo did but, something more along the line of Henry Blodgett or what he is doing now, speaking and writing without any ambition, would be more to my liking.
"Fool me twice, shame on me"
i'm not that old but, I learned a long time ago, if they do it once, they are capable of doing it twice.
It's kinda fun watching the psychopaths tear eachother apart. Go Elliot. And once his revenge is complete, he can relieved of his duties and be free to fuck whomever and whenever he chooses. People don't trust this guy. We don't need these hypocritcal power thirsty men governing our behaviour.
From my experience, almost everyone in high office has a major personality defect; it's what drives them. The rest of us are too lazy, and like chillin' tv, booze or sports. Can you imagine the effort and time it takes to balance on all these boxes to reach the top?
Spitzer probably has low self-esteem, and always had. A guy moving in such powerful circles presumbly had no end of society hostesses interested in him, but was too scared or ashamed to avail himself of these goodies. Much more logical and comfortable in a clean (pricey) business transaction..........
The dilemma is, how pure do you have to be to act as society's hired gun? I suspect in our debauched times, there are very few left, and they are kept well out of the way by TPTB.
I'm no conspiracy theorist, but the ad-hoc alliance of bankers, politicians, lawyers just see themselves as a different tribe to the rest of us. For them, whatever it takes to prevail is OK, and all opposition can be repelled by any and all means.
So I say -if Spitzer is our most effective attack-dog- cry havoc, and let him loose.
From my experience, almost everyone in high office has a major personality defect; it's what drives them. The rest of us are too lazy, and like chillin', tv, booze or sports. Can you imagine the effort and time it takes these guys to balance on all these boxes and reach the top?
Spitzer probably has low self-esteem, and always had. A guy moving in such powerful circles presumbly had no end of society hostesses interested in him, but was too scared or ashamed to avail himself of these goodies. Much more logical and comfortable in a clean (pricey) business transaction..........
The dilemma is, how pure do you have to be to act as society's hired gun? I suspect in our debauched times, there are very few left and they are kept well out of the way by TPTB.
I'm no conspiracy theorist, but the ad-hoc alliance of bankers, politicians, lawyers just see themselves as a different tribe to the rest of us. For them, whatever it takes to prevail is OK, and all opposition can be repelled by any and all means.
So I say -if Spitzer is our most effective attack-dog- cry havoc, and let him loose.
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