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The Fearmongering At The Top Begins: Obama Says "Can Not" Guarantee Social Security Payments Without A Debt Ceiling Hike
It worked for Hank Paulson who showed up in Congress with a three page termsheet, delusions of grandeur, a scary story, and an easily frightened audience. Why should it not work for the president. As Reuters reports, "Barack Obama said in an interview on Tuesday that checks to recipients of the Social Security retirement program may not go out in early August if he and congressional leaders do not agree a debt deal. "I cannot guarantee that those checks go out on August 3rd if we haven't resolved this issue," Obama said in an interview with CBS, according to a transcript on the network's web site. "Because there may simply not be the money in the coffers to do it," Obama said." Is that so Mr. President? Please explain then how according to the most recent DTS the YTD (fiscal) amount paid out on Social Security is $469 billion, well below the amount collected from Federal Tax Deposits of $780 billion. As a comparison, this number is lower than the combination of Medicare and Medicaid ($638 billion YTD), and the combination of Defense and Education Payments ($480 billion). Indicatively, Federal salaries are a whopping $137.6 billion, or said otherwise, all of the SSN payments to date are just three times bigger than what the government pays its own employees. Perhaps a bigger issue is that the debt held by the public has increased by $720 billion YTD, a number which will soon grow to $1.5 trillion if the government does get debt hike it so desperately needs.
So please Mr. President, feel free to engage in your hollow rhetoric when addressing your political adversaries or staring at the teleprompter, but please don't pander to the general population. It didn't work for Hank Paulson, at least not the first time. We all know what happened with your all important stock market after that.
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Our community organizer is telegraphing the end of his administration...
I actually thinks he wins reelection. Ron Paul now has announced his retirement from Congress to focus on Presidential run. Paul will not get the Republican nomination and he will then run as an independent splitting the Repub/Tea Party vote guaranteeing a reelection for Obama!!
Sounds like a remake of that 1992 classic, "Mr. Perot Goes To Washington".
Someone will, and Soros and China will fund the fuck out of them.
Wrong.
Most states have "sore loser" laws which prohibit a candidate who ran in a partisan primary from running as an independent or third-party in the general election.
Apparently Alaska is not one of those.
He wins a second term, you and everyone here had best exit stage left,it will be the last chance you ever get.
WTF difference does it make? He doesn't make the rules. He just reads them off the teleprompter. He's just a fucking puppet. Go after the Puppetmasters if you want a change.
+2 bits for propaganda
carbonmutant,
I can guarantee he won't be relected NOW, w/out pulling any more shit.
HIS ass is cooked.He knows it...........
I have as much chance as he does getting elected.........
94% of blacks won't get it done this time, and 25 million unemployed won't be heading to the Owhammy Slot.
Just beware.........the HANGING CHADS.Or, Martial law is what I am looking for in reality..............if the military is that stupid.
Or, is that Nads?.
Stupid servers.
~O~doop
So your grand Hopey-Changey plan for "bringing everyone together" was to scare the shiite out of Senior Citizens, eh Teleprompter?
Bleh. What's new here? This is just the next iteration of the standard Democrat "Those Wascly Wepublicans want to starve the old and push granny off a cliff in her wheel chair" propaganda that has worked so well since, well, forever.
Hey - let's start another war! And "bail out" international banksters and Euro-nations with IMF (brought to you by American sheeples)!
That Obama - he's a fine puppet!
(when does world let them 'nades drop and start rounding up international bankster/polyticks a.k.a. the real organized crime syndicate - hmm!? When?)
I fucking KNEW they were going to pull this shit out soon.
I hate to quote myself from yesterday but...
Yes it is fearmongering. But the responsibility for raising the debt ceiling rests with the Congress, not the POTUS. They are holding him hostage, no two ways about it. Our way, or the highway..
Yeah, it's strange to me how little this is discussed. We're waiting on legislation. From the legislative branch. All this spending they hate, was authorized by Congress, including many GOP congresses. Boehner and Cantor have both voted to raise the debt ceiling in the past about ten times apeice.
People just like to bitch at Obama, and whatever, that's their right.
But the question for me right now is: can the GOP really run Congress? They've accomplished almost nothing since their "landslide" election. They wanted the job, which includes getting your caucus in order and passing legislation, even tough legislation. Can they do the job or not?
The GOP hasn't gotten anything done since the 'landslide' mid-terms because the Tea Partiers who've stuck to their campaign promises have given them fits. Hope we get more into Congress in '12.
Can't do anything unless you control both the House and Senate, w/super majority.
What's even stranger is the super majority the Libs held for 2 years and could have passed everything they wanted, including higher taxes, yet they didn't. The gutless chimps didn't want to be labeled as the party that raised taxes.
Now it's the Repubs holding up the works??? Of course. And with the help of the talking heads it'll be rammed home nonstop.
Get back in line for another gulp of purple koolaid
Most forget the Dems took control of congress in 2006.
So you wanted them to raise taxes? I'm not a Democrat or a liberal, so you're not hurting my feelings.
All I'm saying is if Boehner is so resolute on what he will and won't accept, why doesn't he just rally his majority in the House and pass the bill he wants? The GOP is in charge of the House... right?
And with a D controlled Senate and POTUS exactly what is it that an R controlled House supposed to accomplish. Nothing will get through.
The point, other than the one on the top of your head, is that the Dems could have passed a favorable, Liberal budget when they had the opportunity, but they did not. This farce we are currently experiencing could have been avoided.
Don't get me wrong. Their budget would have been a nightmare, for sure, and they would have been sole owner and probably lost the Senate in 2010, too.
So typical now that the current inept administration is trying to pawn its failures off on the Repubs.
Okay, then it's the democrats' fault. Do you feel better, Gert?
I hope that they DO NOT raise it..............
Time to see where we stand as a nation, once under extreme duress.
Owhammy is already lower than whale shit in the polls..
It can get a lot worse.
I'm saddened for my children for they will never experience what could have been the greatest country on earth - the USA.
Don't be sad. We are at a crossroads for sure. But at least now we have the possibility of something positive coming out of this. We may get the chance to start over, and revisit such archaic terms as common law, sovereign, and limited government.
It is always darkest before the dawn.
pods
I wish that someone would just put an end to it already so we can start fresh and give the kids a chance. My generation (45 years old) is already fucked. Give the kids a chance.
But thanks for the encouraging words.
I had those same thoughts and feelings of helplessness when I looked at my own young kids.
It is depressing and I did my fair share of boozing, cussing, and outright depression.
But at this point in recent history we have the greatest chance of tossing off the chains of debt enslavement. Much greater than in older generations.
If everyone were to just avoid new debt this thing would implode in a year. That is one of the greatest things I have learned. This system depends on US choosing debt to stay enslaved. The system depends on individual weakness to thrive. It merely gives you the chains to put on and gives you the choice. (some debate can be made that we are responsible for the debts of the US gov due to the 14th amendment).
The system will implode if we all stop creating new debt.
So just teach your kids the value of money (meaning labor), and avoid debt at all costs, as it is each individual that creates debt.
Make the leap and forget that bank credit even exists. Borrow from family/friends, etc or go without. Fuck your credit score. Mine is probably in the toilet since I have no credit available, but that does not matter to me. One more chain thrown off.
It is scary, but liberating. And it is one thing that anyone can do.
pods
The bottom line is, if borrowing stops, at least one of the followng has to give big-time: SS, Medicare, Medicaid and Defense
It doesn't really seem fearmongering to me to point out what would happen if we suddenly had to cut budgets by half. The effects really would be very serious.
Why do you fail to include interest payments on the debt? There is every reason to stop there.
while agreeing with you i find your perspective interesting given your remarks a while back when you ridiculed gov. rick perry for fear mongering the negative effects of obama care on the texas rainy day fund if obama care was passed.
I don't remember a discussion on that topic, but maybe I said that.
you did, and gave me a lot of grief for pointing out what perry and the texas accountants forecasted would be the effect on the budget if obama care passed, which btw proved accurate given that texas had to dip into the rainy day fund to balance (mandatory) the budget.
okay, I'll try to search for that thread to see what I saying.
yes yes yes ...those wascally wapublicans it's all their fault!!!!!!!..... Does that make you feel better chet?
It's both parties' fault, as they share control of Congress and share responsibility for decades of deficit spending.
I just don't understand how the POTUS is supposed to run Congress. Congress votes for spending and to raise the debt ceiling to pay for the spending they voted for. The executive branch can't pass legislation.
No, but a super majority you Libs had for 2 year could have. Guess they figured they didn't have the R's as fallguys, though.
I'm not a democrat or a liberal.
If this ain't the biggest game of "chicken" ever, I'd like to know what was.
box-not-locked, bitchez!
I had forgotten about Al Gore's lock box.
hmm.. I guess the press are fucking idiots (well that is a rhetorical statement if I ever heard one)...
The dems REPEATEDLY, including Geitner, Obama and all the other fools state that there is a SS trust fund with TRILLIONS just sitting there, while everyone knows there is nothing there, including Ron Paul. How would checks not go out, how would the money not be there unless you just got caught in a red faced lie. Someone needs to stand up and ask the ol prez about the "trillions" that somehow are not there ... No one in the press has the guts to actually call them on it using their own words against them.
+1
yea, he's real shitty at fear mongering. I expect that to improve as we get to the heart of the campaign.
And we the people cannot guarantee that we will be paying any more taxes if you do raise the debt ceiling!
Why does Obama hate old white people?
Rhetorical eh?
Obama is an old-white person, he just happens to have darker skin. He is "The Man" that so many of the black community used to try and fight against.
Fuck this shit.
I can't believe I voted for this asshat. I feel shame.
I feel your pain. I remember when I voted for Bush. I feel like an ass to this day because of that. I have since learned. Ron Paul 2012.
This can be addressed to both of you:
Did you ever notice that when you vote for the winning guy that they turn out to be a failure, flop, or scoundrel?
It is cause they are all scoundrels, but you only notice when they win.
Ron Paul has a great philosophy, but he will not make a bit of difference if he is elected.
pods
Tis a distinct possibility. After this election I finalize my withdrawal of consent to every tax and every damn law on the books. If the cops come for me it will just be suicide by cop as far as I am concerned.
You needn't even go that far. Just remove your chains by refusing to create new debt.
Being patriotic isn't dying for your cause, it is making the other guy die for theirs.
(poor paraphrase)
pods
No new debt creation since 2009. Strategic default on JP and Cap1 Credit cards. I did settle to get them off my ass though. Have led a cash existence, along with gold/silver holdings, ever since.
RP would be a good post-crash President in the efforts to restructure the Federal Gov
Why would it be accepted without questioning that bond holders should be anywhere near the top of the list to be paid (as opposed to bottom) when the basic economic choice of scarcity is forced upon the US government?
Why can't Bitch-Boy-Barry just come out and say he likes bending over for the Big-Bad-Bankers? The truth would set him free, and slow down the graying hair in spite of weekly respites at the country club.
Because if the US defaults, it will no longer be able to spend borrowed money and will immediately have to balance its budget (or print money at warp speed). When the budget is balanced, spending will have to drop by about 50%, which will contract GDP even more than that, creating a severe depression.
Nevertheless, it's better to have a short, severe depression than a long, crippling depression, and we are going to default eventually anyway.
Thisson.tumblr.com
Remember this?
http://youtu.be/Rw9lQT1Ark4
hmm.. I guess it's time to
What a crock of SHIT.
Suspend payments from a system that the recipients paid into.
I cannot believe the president of the United States would ever say something like that. He should be impeached, and right now. No respect left for that man. Pathetic.
someone is going to get hurt , if this continues
Yup. My new prediction is Impeachment followed shortly thereafter by race riots.
This is the WORST kind of fear mongering.....I truly hope America is waking up to how screwed we are becoming....and we are being screwed by those whom we elected...That is the sad sad irony of it all.....
All this fearmongering has caused the market to rebound. Seems the market never met bad news it didn't like. Can't wait till we default, the market could be up 500 that day. Whippppe!
Its like Cisco Systems today announcing thousands of job cuts. Bad news for workers means good news for the stock price. Don't you love it?
Mr market likes socialist flop
Well I wonder why he didn't threaten this instead?
"The government will not be able to wage wars all over the world if we don't extend the debt ceiling."
Asshole.
It will continue on and on.....until it blows up! Obama will be in there 4 more yrs...even though I don't think it matters who is the POTUS...Obama is the one chosen to lead us into the NWO.
Ron Paul now has announced his retirement from Congress to focus on Presidential run. Paul will not get the Republican nomination and he will then run as an independent splitting the Repub/Tea Party vote guaranteeing a reelection for Obama!!
There ya have it!
That assumes a large number of people are stupid enough to vote third party for Ron Paul.
hmmm ..... You ever talk to a Ron Paul supporter.?..
Yes, a few. I can confirm the stupid; what I can't believe is that there are significant numbers of them, enough to swing an election.
So stupid is Newspeak for principled?
Noted.
I used to live in his district. 'Principled' and 'pork king' are pretty much mutually exclusive, and it is self-evident which one of those Ron Paul is.
You missed my point but as to "pork" I think he has been pretty clear about the dicotomy between spending bills and earmarks.
My actual point is that calling someone stupid for "wasting their vote" on a third part candidate is the height of stupidity. What phenomenon is more responsible then any for the one party oligarichal rule to which the USA is currently subjected? I would say politics as a horse race.
"we, them, my guy, your guy" it's all bullshit perpetuated by the very stupidity that you evidenced.
We know how badly the current president is doing, either out of sheer ignorance or premeditated hatred of the US, I won't speculate.
Unless you want more of the same, game theory suggests that you coalesce all anti-incumbent votes into one candidate, not split them.
I completely understand the "game theory" take. However the multi generational problem is that the anti-incumbant is ALWAYS incrementally worse than the incumbant.
In terms of continuity of agenda and sheer fuckheadedness.
I don't buy that. Reagan was better than Carter, Clinton was arguably better than Bush I, and a random citizen picked from a phone book would be better than what we have now.
The drug war, OKC and the first NATO not-a-war.
Refuted.
a "Kenyan" phone book at that!
Wasn't it Clinton who repealed Glass Steagall in 1999? Arguably that was not better than Bush.
Vote for whoever you want & let the chips fall where they may...
Americans get what they wish for & deserve (which ain't much either way - so be careful what you wish for)...
& don't worry... the diebold machines will accurately sort out the eventual victor...
very good points...I've come to a conclusion that the USA's problems are beyond a political solution....I will say no more than that this being a public website and will hold my cards close to the vest, but it's time for a different kind of action a different kind of change.
As you wish however I think widespread, peaceful civil disobedience is the first step.
kind of like what they tried & failed with against the 'redcoats'?
Oh, but I'm sure it'll work better this time around (considering our technological advancements in the field of 'peaceful civil disobedience')...
---
I'm not a 'revolutionary' type, I'm just a realist... It ain't gonna happen without bloodshed...
Oh I don't doubt that blood will be shed but it is essential that the State be seen as the one doing the letting.
+1776.
Double post deleted
Obama will have a bit of challenge explaining the fraudulent birth certificate, don't you think? And the fraudulent SS number?
The 'fraudulent birth certificate' is the TRUMP card (no pun intended) of his puppetmasters...
It will be played 'if & when' he fails to act in accordance with their wishes... I have no doubt about that (I'm also quite sure he's been 'briefed' on that as well)...
Absofuckinglutely!
The Exit Strategy.
Sucker just shot himself in the foot politically.
Way to start a bank run too. Scare the shit outta grandma and she'll go down and empty her account out.
wait, I thought SS was in a Lock Box
I like to see a sense of humor in the face of financial armageddon.
"was" is the operative word there my friend...
---
Then, at some point, it became Clinton's 'Economic Miracle'...
Truthfully though... You have to go back to Lyndon Johnson...
Can't wait to see the media O-sycophants try to spin this one.
Bush's fault.
They'll get to the true reason right after they report on the Fast and Furious guns
Republican's fault for sure: Why it's just as if John Boehner ripped up granny's SS check right in her face!
not a fan, but i hope the Pubes call Big O's bluff.
Having had a little time to ponder this, I can't help but feel that Barry has used the social security payment piece of heavy artillery a little early in the negotiating process. The weekend before the July 22nd deadline hits would have been far better.
Just another example of his administrations overall ability.
P.S. I just bought some more physical silver - it seemed like the right thing to do
Is it just me? Please help!
When I see FICA, I equate it as the Social Security Tax. When I search it, I find: "FY2010 FICARevenues of $863B; FY2011 FICA Revenues $693B (9 months 2% discount)". -WSJ
Yet on one side of his mouth Obama calls for extending the FICA tax cuts through 2012 and with the other he says that there will be no money for Social Security either now or in the future.
but the discussion in this chat room and others make me think that FICA isn't what I think it is, as if the 2% tax reduction isn't coming from SS but from the payroll withholding of federal income tax. Which is it?
The reduction is indeed from FICA, but it is all a numbers game. Any excess receipts that SS gets are given to the general fund, and have been for 40+ years. SS gets back nice certificates that say the money will be repaid via future income tax receipts.
Thanks
So is this evidence the Treasury has been tapping social security to make general payments?
That's illegal, is it not?
Talk to LBJ about that as he started it to pay for great society (the programs currently responsible for our insolvency) and Vietnam war. That's how long this "intergovernmental borrowing" ponzi has been going on!
Jeez, I hadn't known SS has basically been used as a giant slush fund for so long.
Surprised there's anything left of it at all, tbh.
Yep--the programs that pushed us to default and close the gold window. We've never paid down a dollar's worth of debt since.
ssshhh, before the skeletons start falling out of the closet!
Reagan was the first one to spend out of the trust fund.
Maybe Obama is telling the truth and this is evidence the Treasury has been tapping social security to make general payments?
That's illegal, is it not?
Am reading Albert Brooks' 2030.
Don't know whether to laugh or cry. Is this coming to a theatre near us?
And you thought Al Qaeda was the boogey man? Stopping SS checks - sounds like a terroristic threat to me...
If they do not pay Social Security then they should also should not pay Federal Pensions, not pay Section 8 Housing Vouchers, Food Stamps, Energy assistance, and Welfare, SSI, Disability. They should not reimburse any Doctor for Medicare or Medicade as well. Anyone on Medicare that is in the Hospital should be thrown in the Street.
Other wise it could be discrimination against the Elderly.
It the same old story as at the local level. The pols want to raise your taxes, but if they aren't allowed to, well, then, amazingly it's always the police, firefighters, and first responders that will be let go, and not the clerks in the various bureaus...
And really, who was decrying "divisive fearmongering tactics" seemingly forever? Why, the same guy who had no problem playing political posturing with the debt ceiling in 2006; Barack "L'etat c'est moi!" Obama...
Seriously though, why wasn't this done prior to last November, like the 2011 budget, when the Democrats controlled congress and the white house?
It's pure theater, and in the end we all get screwed...
Makes me ill.
gotta give the Fair-O credit : mofo is shameless when he needs to be. maybe he's just peeved someone in SSA caught him using a fake SSN and ixnayed his bennies.
aw shit, the O2012 ad is back. wonder if anyone on his PR team is in on the joke that it was the Mayans that invented zero?
Hey if they are not going to pay, does that mean we don't have to pay the tax? I mean this was supposed to be a trust fund right? I would love to see them not pay this, I would laugh my ass off. Then quit paying the military and see what happens. LOL
America is hemorrhaging debt.
As he breathes, he lies.
hemmorrhaging? or drowning? Whatever, it's all paper BS anyway. The sad truth is that Obama will not be sending SS checks anyway because the dollar will be worth less and less. So isn't sending worthless checks the same thing as not sending them at all.
obuma is a piece of shit his skin color is just right..taking money paid in by the working class and then refusing benefits is so easy when your black ass has been on the dole your whole life.
never created a job ran a business pushed to the front because of affirmativeaction now this punk is another punk ass mau mau terrorist.
I've got a good idea. Why not stop paying for the war on drugs while at the same time paying the CIA to strategically support poppy growers in Afghanistan like they've been doing since the cold war.
Obama should have raised taxes while Dems were still in charge of everything if it was so damn important.
Now, Obama just looks stupid for not having been able to do the math on his own massive spending, and for not even getting dems to put a budget together since 2009 (because deficits were too embarrassing) ---- like they were supposed to, by law.
The Repubs were elected in a landslide to enforce a restraining order on Dem spending. It's absurd to think the GOP is going to take the hit by raising taxes for the democrats spending when dems wouldn't even do it when they had the monopoly.
He looks even more stupid for insisting that the Bush tax cuts be maintained last December. Now, we have to have a tax increase six months later? Your average high school student can balance a budget six months out.
IF this were to occur we'd be on a death watch, with news stories of the elderly and disabled starving, being tossed into the streets and perishing. If there were ever going to be a "trigger effect" that would push the sleeping masses into open rebeliion, this would be it. No one is going to tolerate grandma and grandpa and the disabled being sacrificed on the altar of deficit reduction. This would be seen as akin to the crimes of the Nazis.
providence shines grace upon a nation of peoples when they care for their weak
He should have kept his mouth shut. Now he owns the problem. Everyone is going to blame him.
But...but...but they told me Obama was the most brilliant man to have ever lived, something isn't working out here.
If you want to work on the representation problem, let me suggest that only voters be allowed to bribe politicians. That is, if you can't vote then you can't bribe. Of course, there are two ways to bribe politicians. One is already illegal but the other (campaign contributions) is not. This would not limit political speech ... anyone or any corporation/union, etc could create and run ads. It would however limit the direct buying of favors. Only cash directly from the people would be accessible by the politician. Might make for an interesting change.
The tin foil idea of reptilian shape shifters idea is starting to grow on me.
If Obama is going to take anything away from anyone he should take away the welfare checks from the lazy idiots just sitting there sucking up resources who are contributing nothing. He should not threaten Social Security checks because at least those people worked at some point during their life and paid into the system believing they would get something in the end. Our politicians are idiots!!!
Taking away congressional paychecks won't balance the budget.
deleted double post
That's it, just what you need Barry: Millions of pissed off old people, most of which own guns, that now have nothing to live for or lose. You must've slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night, genius. Long copper and lead.
With a key, you unlock a door to imagination
Beyond it is another dimension
A dimension of sight
A dimension of sound
A dimension of mind
You’re moving through a land of both shadow and substance
Of things and ideas
We just crossed over into the "It's Too Fucked Up To Believe Zone."
Walmart's better stock up on depends, this news is going to cause
a lot of senors to soil themselves.
He ratched up the rhetoric big time, essentially saying if we don't get this increase the old people won't get their checks pure and simple. At first I though that this was just being played out in the public and that close to the end both will agree and then it's happy day. But from the rhetoric and such, it sounds like that there are not only differences with the mainstream politicians but also with the new teaparty ones and others that are coming up for a vote next year.
Fear is a powerful tool...better then a nice carrot...history (and Hank Paulson) show how threatening people with destruction, they all sell their grandchildren down the road for pannies......
GL!
This isn't about the debt ceiling. It's about putting the Meme out there in thought space.
Subliminal 'social security will end'. Old people start scrambling now to consider
another MODALITY of existence. This is the old 'We're going to tell
you what we're going to do before we do it' play. Right now millions are IMAGINING
life without Social Security checks, which is just what the Witchcraftocracy you live
under wants.
"The mind of a group consciousness is a terrible thing to waste"
+6.2%...well said Mob.