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Gonzalo Lira On The Coming Middle-Class Anarchy
Submitted by Gonzalo Lira
The Coming Middle-Class Anarchy
True story: A retired couple I know, Brian and Ilsa, own a home in the Southwest. It’s a pretty house, right on the manicured golf course of their gated community (they’re crazy about golf).
The only problem is, they bought the house near the top of the market in 2005, and now find themselves underwater.
They’ve never missed a mortgage payment—Brian and Ilsa are the kind upright, not to say uptight 60-ish white semi-upper-middle-class couple who follow every rule, fill out every form, comply with every norm. In short, they are the backbone of America.
Even after the Global Financial Crisis had seriously hurt their retirement nest egg—and therefore their monthly income—and even fully aware that they would probably not live to see their house regain the value it has lost since they bought it, they kept up the mortgage payments. The idea of them strategically defaulting is as absurd as them sprouting wings.
When HAMP—the Home Affordable Modification Program—was unveiled, they applied, because they qualified: Every single one of the conditions applied to them, so there was no question that they would be approved—at least in theory.
Applying for HAMP was quite a struggle: Go here, go there, talk to this person, that person, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. “It’s like they didn’t want us to qualify,” Ilsa told me, as she recounted their mind-numbing travails.
It was a months-long struggle—but finally, they were approved for HAMP: Their mortgage period was extended, and the interest rate was lowered. Even though their home was still underwater, and even though they still owed the same principal to their bank, Brian and Ilsa were very happy: Their mortgage payments had gone down by 40%. This was equivalent to about 15% of their retirement income. So of course they were happy.
However, three months later, out of the blue, they got a letter from their bank, Wells Fargo: It said that, after further review, Brian and Ilsa had in fact not qualified for HAMP. Therefore, their mortgage would go back to the old rate. Not only that, they now owed the difference for the three months when they had paid the lowered mortgage—and to add insult to injury, they were assessed a “penalty for non-payment”.
Brian and Ilsa were furious—a fury which soon turned to dour depression: They tried contacting Wells Fargo, to straighten this out. Of course, they were given the run-around once again.
They kept insisting that they qualified—they qualified! But of course, that didn’t help at all—like a football, they were punted around the inner working of the Mortgage Mess, with no answers and no accountability.
Finally, exhausted, Brian and Ilsa sat down, looked at the last letter—which had no signature, and no contact name or number—and wondered what to do.
On television, the news was talking about “robo-signatures” and “foreclosure mills”, and rank illegalities—illegalities which it seemed everyone was getting away with. To top it off, foreclosures have been suspended by the largest of the banks for 90 days—which to Brian and Ilsa meant that people who weren’t paying their mortgages got to live rent free for another quarter, while they were being squeezed out of a stimulus program that had been designed—tailor made—precisely for them.
Brian and Ilsa are salt-of-the-earth people: They put four kids through college, they always paid their taxes. The last time Brian broke the law was in 1998: An illegal U-turn on a suburban street.
“We’ve done everything right, we’ve always paid on time, and this program is supposed to help us,” said Brian. “We follow the rules—but people who bought homes they couldn’t afford get to squat in those McMansions rent free. It would have been smarter if we’d been crooks.”
Now, up to this point, this is just another sob story of the Mortgage Mess—and as sob stories go, up to this point, it’s no big deal.
But here’s where the story gets ominous—here’s where the Jaws soundtrack kicks in:
Brian and Ilsa—the nice upper-middle-class retired couple, who always follow the rules, and never ever break the law—who don’t even cheat on their golf scores—even when they’re playing alone (“Because if you cheat at golf, you’re only cheating yourself”)—have decided to give their bank the middle finger.
They have essentially said, Fuckit.
They haven’t defaulted—not yet. They’re paying the lower mortgage rate. That they’re making payments is because of Brian: He is insisting that they pay something—Ilsa is of the opinion that they should forget about paying the mortgage at all.
“We follow the rules, and look where that’s gotten us?” she says, furious and depressed. “Nowhere. They run us around, like lab rats in a cage. This HAMP business was supposed to help us. I bet the bank went along with the program for three months, so that they could tell the government that they had complied—and when the government got off their backs, they turned around and raised the mortgage back up again!”
“And charged us a penalty,” Brian chimes in. The non-payment penalty was only $84—but it might as well been $84 million, for all the outrage they feel. “A penalty for non-payment!”
Nevertheless, Brian is insisting that they continue paying the mortgage—albeit the lower monthly payment—because he’s still under the atavistic sway of his law-abiding-ness.
But Ilsa is quietly, constantly insisting that they stop paying the mortgage altogether: “Everybody else is doing it—so why shouldn’t we?”
A terrible sentence, when a law-abiding citizen speaks it: Everybody else is doing it—so why don’t we?
I’m like Wayne Gretsky: I don’t concern myself with where the puck has been—I look for where the puck is going to be.
Right now, people are having a little hissy-fit over the robo-signing scandal, and the double-booking scandal (where the same mortgage was signed over to two different bonds), and the little fights between junior tranches and senior tranches and the servicer, in the MBS mess.
But none of that shit is important.
What’s really important is Brian and Ilsa: What’s really important is that law-abiding middle-class citizens are deciding that playing by the rules is nothing but a sucker’s game.
Just like the poker player who’s been fleeced by all the other players, and gets one mean attitude once he finally wakes up to the con? I’m betting that more and more of the solid American middle-class will begin saying what Brian and Ilsa said: Fuckit.
Fuck the rules. Fuck playing the game the banksters want you to play. Fuck being the good citizen. Fuck filling out every form, fuck paying every tax. Fuck the government, fuck the banks who own them. Fuck the free-loaders, living rent-free while we pay. Fuck the legal process, a game which only works if you’ve got the money to pay for the parasite lawyers. Fuck being a chump. Fuck being a stooge. Fuck trying to do the right thing—what good does that get you? What good is coming your way?
Fuckit.
When the backbone of a country starts thinking that laws and rules are not worth following, it’s just a hop, skip and a jump to anarchy.
TV has given us the illusion that anarchy is people rioting in the streets, smashing car windows and looting every store in sight. But there’s also the polite, quiet, far deadlier anarchy of the core citizenry—the upright citizenry—throwing in the towel and deciding it’s just not worth it anymore.
If a big enough proportion of the populace—not even a majority, just a largish chunk—decides that it’s just not worth following the rules anymore, then that society’s days are numbered: Not even a police-state with an armed Marine at every corner with Shoot-to-Kill orders can stop such middle-class anarchy.
Brian and Ilsa are such anarchists—grey-haired, well-dressed, golf-loving, well-to-do, exceedingly polite anarchists: But anarchists nevertheless. They are not important, or powerful, or influential: They are average—that’s why they’re so deadly: Their numbers are millions. And they are slowly, painfully coming to the conclusion that it’s just not worth it anymore.
Once enough of these J. Crew Anarchists decide they no longer give a fuck, it’s over for America—because they are America.
Update I:
The Center for Public Integrity has a story, written by Michael Hudson this past August 6, that shines a light on the issue of perverse incentives of the HAMP program. These perverse incentives came to light because of a whistleblower, a former employee of Fannie Mae, filing a lawsuit. Fannie Mae was so keen on being perceived as a money-maker, after the Federal government bailout, that the aid programs passed by the Congress and signed by the President were turned into profit centers.
The former executive, Caroline Herron, recounts:
“It appeared that Fannie Mae officers were focused on maximizing incentive payments available to Fannie Mae under various federal programs – even if this meant wasting taxpayer money and delaying the implementation of high-priority Treasury programs,” she claims in the lawsuit.
Herron alleges that Fannie Mae officials terminated her $200-an-hour consulting work in January because she raised questions about how it was administering the federal government’s push to help homeowners avoid foreclosure, known as the Home Affordable Modification Program, or HAMP.
Herron further alleged that “trial mods” were implemented regardless of eligibility of applicants, so that Fannie Mae would be eligible for Federal government bonuses.
Ms. Herron’s testimony in fact proves Ilsa’s suspicion that there was a scam at bottom. As Mr. Hudson writes, “Herron charges that Fannie Mae continued in headlong pursuit of ‘trial mods’ even though it knew that many had little chance of becoming permanent. [. . .] Fannie preferred doing trials, Herron alleges, because it was eligible to receive incentive payments from the Treasury Department.”
So in the pursuit of these perverse incentives, people who did not qualify for HAMP were enrolled in the program. And when their “trial mods” were up after 90 days, they would be notified that they didn’t qualify—regardless of whether they in fact did qualify, as in the case of Brian and Ilsa.
All so as to be perceived as a profitable operation, worth having been bailed out. All so as to be perceived as “returning America’s money”.
As of February, 2010, of the over one million homeowners’ mortgages under HAMP auspices, 83% were “trial mods”. One would assume that those 850,000 homeowners would also be assessed an $84 penalty for non-payment.
$84 times over 850,000? You do the math.
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I remember thinking how pathetic were the Japanese "reality" games shows that humiliate people. This was back in the 90s at the beginning of their first lost decade. We also owe the Idol-type t.v. contests to the British.
You 'owe' them to Simon Cowell, not the Brits in general. The sad part is that the Brits like this rubbish. You can add Endemol (Dutch company) to the list while you're at it, for creating 'Big Brother'. A format which has been exported the world over. Now gone after 10 years and a few iterations in the UK, thank God. People are the same everywhere, they would rather live vicariously while wrapping themsleves in a blanket of denial.
Fuck the Banks. I was also thinking of doing this. I even called Wells Fargo only to hear more lies. I only have 8 more years on my Mortgage and over 80% of equity. But the point is everybody has no way of fighting back. The only messege they will hear is getting fucked out of Billions when people stop paying their mortgage. I don't care why people bought houses, if it wasn't housing the banks would of found another way of fucking us all. As the the old saying goes "Money talks, Shit walks".
This is a very important post. The backbone of a culture is its set of cultural expectations. Crony capitalism, unequal application of laws and foolish propagation of moral hazard does erode this set of expectations and thus confidence and can lead to cultural collapse. Whether you are one who dislikes the current system and hence yearn for its destruction or one who will mourn its passing, the trend is toward the dissipation of the set of cultural expectations that underpin our society. From the upper left to the lower right on the chart as they say.
Very true. I think this dovetails nicely with Thomas Sowell's thesis, in various of his books, that some cultures *are* better than others and that cultural value is just as important to the economic health of a nation as its material resources.
Agree.
We are witnessing not just an economic, real estate, and currency collapse, but a collapse of the culture too.
~Misstrial
.
I see your "."
and I raise you a ","
LOL! ^.^
~Misstrial
Planned decades of control:
Late 90's - Get everyone into the stockmarket = FAIL
2004 - Get everyone into housing = FAIL
2010 Get everyone into bonds = ?
2011 Get everyone into PM's = ?
2012 Starve the masses
They are pulling one out of the old playbook - mises.org/books/inflationinfrance.pdf
The new normal for the middle class is a lower standard of living. The powers that be don't seem rattled at this point. People are pissed, but they don't get it. Meanwhile, homeland security, CIA and military are positioning to quell any dissent.
http://projects.washingtonpost.com/top-secret-america/articles/a-hidden-...
so, I had a very witty, informative response to your post, with links, lalala - and my computer *crashed*. . . no lie.
so I think I'll just say, read Katherine Graham's Wiki page (it's a shortcut for ADD types), and add the information contained to whatever might be "printed" in the WaPo link. . .
and I'll add, ala Attila the Wimp, she's a (long time) Bilderberger.
from her speech to the CIA.
It was the opinion which all true statesmen
have held, before his time and since,—in his own country,
in England, in America, in every modern civilized nation.
In his letter to Cerutti, written in January, 1789, hardly
six months before, he had spoken of paper money as "A
nursery of tyranny, corruption and delusion; a veritable
debauch of authority in delirium." In one of his early
speeches in the National Assembly he had called such money,
when Anson covertly suggested its issue, "a loan to an armed
robber," and said of it: "that infamous word, paper money,
ought to be banished from our language."
EVEN worse than this was the breaking down of the
morals of the country at large, resulting from the sudden
building up of ostentatious wealth in a few large cities,
and from the gambling, speculative spirit spreading from
these to the small towns and rural districts. From this was
developed an even more disgraceful result,—the decay of
a true sense of national good faith. The patriotism which
the fear of the absolute monarchy, the machinations of the
court party, the menaces of the army and the threats of all
monarchical Europe had been unable to shake was gradually
disintegrated by this same speculative, stock-jobbing
habit fostered by the superabundant currency. At the outset,
in the discussions preliminary to the first issue of paper
money, Mirabeau and others who had favored it had insisted
that patriotism as well as an enlightened self-interest,
would lead the people to keep up the value of paper money.
The very opposite of this was now revealed, for there appeared,
as another outgrowth of this disease, what has always
been seen under similar circumstances. It is a result of
previous, and a cause of future evils. This outgrowth was a
vast debtor class in the nation, directly interested in the
depreciation of the currency in which they were to pay their
debts. The nucleus of this class was formed by those who
had purchased the church lands from the government. Only
small payments down had been required and the remainder
was to be paid in deferred installments: an indebtedness of
a multitude of people had thus been created to the amount
of hundreds of millions. This body of debtors soon saw, of
course, that their interest was to depreciate the currency in
which their debts were to be paid; and these were speedily
joined by a far more influential class;—by that class whose
speculative tendencies had been stimulated by the abundance of paper money, and who had gone largely into debt,
looking for a rise in nominal values. Soon demagogues of
the viler sort in the political clubs began to pander to it;
a little later important persons in this debtor class were to
be found intriguing in the Assembly—first in its seats and
later in more conspicuous places of public trust. Before long,
the debtor class became a powerful body extending through
all ranks of society. From the stock-gambler who sat in the
Assembly to the small land speculator in the rural districts;
from the sleek inventor of canards on the Paris Exchange
to the lying stock-jobber in the market town, all pressed
vigorously for new issues of paper; all were apparently able
to demonstrate to the people that in new issues of paper lay
the only chance for national prosperity.
This great debtor class, relying on the multitude who
could be approached by superficial arguments, soon gained
control. Strange as it might seem to those who have not
watched the same causes at work at a previous period in
France and at various times in other countries, while every
issue of paper money really made matters worse, a superstition
gained ground among the people at large that, if
only enough paper money were issued and were more cunningly
handled the poor would be made rich. Henceforth
all opposition was futile. In December, 1791, a report was
made in the Legislative Assembly in favor of yet another
great issue of three hundred millions more of paper money.
In regard to this report Cambon said that more money was
needed but asked, "Will you, in a moment when stock-jobbing
is carried on with such fury, give it new power by
adding so much more to the circulation?" But such high considerations
were now little regarded. Dorisy declared, "There
is not enough money yet in circulation; if there were more
the sales of national lands would be more rapid." And the
official report of his speech states that these words were applauded.
To reach the climax of ferocity, the Convention
decreed, in May, 1794, that the death penalty should
be inflicted on any person convicted of "having asked, before
a bargain was concluded, in what money payment was
to be made." Nor was this all. The great finance minister,
Cambon, soon saw that the worst enemies of his policy were
gold and silver. Therefore it was that, under his lead, the
Convention closed the Exchange and finally, on November
13, 1793, under terrifying penalties, suppressed all commerce
in the precious metals. About a year later came the
abolition of the Maximum itself.*
It is easily seen that these Maximum laws were perfectly
logical. Whenever any nation intrusts to its legislators the
issue of a currency not based on the idea of redemption in
standard coin recognized in the commerce of civilized nations,
it intrusts to them the power to raise or depress the
value of every article in the possession of every citizen.
Louis XIV had claimed that all property in France was his
own, and that what private persons held was as much his
as if it were in his coffers. But even this assumption is exceeded
by the confiscating power exercised in a country,
where, instead of leaving values to be measured by a standard
common to the whole world, they are left to be depressed
or raised at the whim, caprice or interest of a body
of legislators. When this power is given, the power of fixing
prices is inevitably included in it.
The End:
But this history would be incomplete without a brief
sequel, showing how that great genius profited by all his
experience. When Napoleon Bonaparte took the consulship the condition
of fiscal affairs was appalling. The government was
bankrupt; an immense debt was unpaid. The further collection
of taxes seemed impossible; the assessments were in
hopeless confusion. War was going on in the East, on the
Rhine, and in Italy, and civil war, in La Vendee. All the
armies had long been unpaid, and the largest loan that could
for the moment be effected was for a sum hardly meeting
the expenses of the government for a single day. At the
first cabinet council Bonaparte was asked what he intended
to do. He replied, "I will pay cash or pay nothing."
i enjoyed reading that post, Robslob. thanks!
Wow, I really have to question the intelligence of this couple, specifically the husband.
"If you're gonna talk, talk. If you're gonna shoot, shoot." The Good, The Bad & The Ugly
You don't half-ass default. You either do or you don't. They're throwing good money after bad by making partial payments. Not very wise indeed!
That being said, I have no problems with strategic defaults. I would do it in a heartbeat if I was under water and the numbers weren't in my best interest. In fact, some studies show that strategic defaulters usually have higher FICO scores, implying a better financial acumen.
This couple needs to fish or cut bait. They've made the dumbest possible decision by making partial payments. They're ruining their credit and throwing money away.
Amen.
There is no "try" there is only "do, or do not." :)
and then there's doo-doo in your pooh-pooh. so always remember "do not Yoohoo while you're in the boo-hoo-hoo." It leaves a choclately stain on your shirt.
This is a little harsh for my taste for this couple, but I agree. Sometimes harsh will wake folks up.
Don't do it half way. And no matter how they see it, they are not in the HAMP program. You are in or out. You pay or you don't.
He wants to be good. He is clinging to a way to tell himself he is still good, while doing something he must deeply still feel is bad.
It is not, it is a business deal. The couple walks away, the bank got all the payments and now a house. End of it. Sorrow not for the bank, they got into this deal knowing this was a possible outcome. If they did not hedge for it, their problem.
If I were them, I would make sure it was a non-recourse loan and go to a lawyer. Not getting into HAMP could be a blessing. If those terms changed a nonrecourse loan to a recourse loan, the couple may have hosed themselves and not known it. But if I knew I had a non-recourse loan, I would be out of there.
It's a mind fuck. Haha I'm pushing you around. If you don't attack me there is no equality if you do you're dangerous and need punished. PTB use 2 techniques. Aggressive-passivity and passive-aggression.
Why go to a lawyer? Why pay someone to fight? It only expands the mercenary market and reinforces that someone else must fight for you and these someone's get to pick who is right and who is wrong. Pay at the modified rate and simply put "as agreed by documents I possess for october mortgage". On the for of every check. Don't support the protection racketeering portion of society.
Because the racket still has a standing militia that will act against me if the paperwork looks legitimate. I want my paperwork to be looking more legitimate so that the militia will leave me and mine alone.
We are not in the new world, yet. The disintegration is just getting some traction. I don't know how long it will take to get fully dissolved and transformed into what is next. For the moment, this one is up and running.
A good lawyer is an amazing thing to behold. A bad one is shockingly disgusting. I have been unjustly attacked and fortunate to have a good lawyer standing by my side. I was so grateful that day (I was truly powerless and stood to lose everything) I fell in love with the guy a little. My attacker got NOTHING and was shown, with careful logic put together by my lawyer, to be a scum con artist. My lawyer was 20 years older than me, and as far as I was concerned he was a stud. My husband understood!
I get your point, I support the system with my participation. But the system still has power, even as it is disintegrating. I would want the couple to be fully informed and cover their butts on things they may not think of on their own.
And I also wonder how carefully they read their document.
+1 nailed its MsCreant
Idiot,
"You don't half-ass default. You either do or you don't. They're throwing good money after bad by making partial payments. Not very wise indeed!"
I totally disagree,( in a lot of situations) he is being very wise,in most states if you owe a balance, and make NO attempt at repayment....your ass is grass.
By making partials(maybe the original HAMP agreement amt??),or even less, if this goes before a Judge, HE will have been showing a good faith effort.
This would go a LONG way towards them keeping the unit under the HAMP rule.
And, if he is paying the agreed HAMP amount, a Judge will most likely rule in their favor.
Paying nothing, is a Lose/Lose.
i'm with the Zapper on this one. doing what they're doing the way they're doing it directly addresses their particular grievance.
his 'principles' are his identity, but that money thing keeps nagging "at what cost?". its like watching a soap opera. i can just see his depression as he ponders whether or not he is still "a good person".
oh, the joys of central money planning! party on the way up, divorce, suicide, and war on the way down!!
....great 'system', good times.
aint that a bitch? they may have to downsize and nut it out like the rest of us poor bastages. they have already benefitted from our artificially high standard of living for a lifetime. If you revolt because of a free market change in the equity position of your home I will personally use rule .308 on your ass. What a joke our nation of whiners has become. Obesity rather than starvation is the problem. If you take away the onus of breaking your word than what do we really have? If you cant pay and they wont help, then move into an apartment beyotch.
I can't believe you said "free market."
Really, I can't.
Bring plenty of ammo.
Gonzalo:
Your friends aren't the salt of the earth. They're just another self indulgent couple who went into debt at a point in life where prudent people are getting out of debt because they know their income is fixed. Hell fucking oh?
No, Gonzalo, I am the salt of the earth. I also wanted to live on a golf course in a gated community in Arizona, but instead of going into debt to show off, I am living in a very modest mortgage free house in Texas and growing my own food. I keep extra ammo for my shotgun because I never know when some self indulgent baby boomer fuck is going to decide that he is entitled to the benefit of my planning. I am worried that I will have to go to war with my tax assessor who keeps raising my fucking taxes in spite of the fact that my home is going down in value. If I read one more story about people "who did everything right" when in fact they did everything wrong, my fucking head is going to explode. Up until this column, I only thought you were a fucking idiot. Now I am certain of it.
++++1000
EconomicMorphine, why don't you tell me how you really feel.
BTW, you say that
Please give me your e-mail address: I'll be sure to send along another such story, and thereby speed along the process, vis-à-vis your head exploding.
GL
"tell me how you really feel". I hate that saying. People SHOULD tell you how they really feel. If they don't, that is lying. Fuckit. People want delusions, illusions-from everyone and everything, so their sorry little self esteem doesn't take a hit. Oh boo hoo, I told you what I really think or feel. Shocking.
I agree with EM, it's the old ants and grasshopper thing. These folks are losing their white privilege and can't stand it. They are becoming victims of the system they wholeheartedly supported all their lives. They are part of the problem. Not to say the banks et al aren't MFers, they are.
shit for brains
"They are part of the problem."
maybe, but even if so, they are also part of the solution, if they so choose.
"These folks are losing their white privilege and can't stand it."
Race bait much kali?
Honky is as honky does.
That's pretty deep snowjob...lemme give it some thought ;-)
I'm going to have to go with kali on this one. I've met too many people who made 100k plus all through the 90's who didn't have a goddamn thing. They would spend so much money on credit and bullshit they would just piss everthing away. Judgement is all about sympathy and I have none for these types. I see old stupid yuppies. Nothing more nothing less. Thinking they can know who to trust and who to think for them and just following thier stupid ass base desires.
It has nothing to do with race Hep...zero.
"I'm going to have to go with kali on this one. I've met too many people who made 100k plus all through the 90's who didn't have a goddamn thing. They would spend so much money on credit and bullshit they would just piss everthing away. Judgement is all about sympathy and I have none for these types."
So I will assume you feel the same way about people caught up in the plantation system of welfare. Where they will piss away limited funds on lottery tickets, booze & smokes.
Over time this money would be better utilized by saving it up to better their condition wouldn't it?
Uh no. The saving up to better your condition line is bullshit. The nothing good is easy line is bullshit. The world is riddled with inadequacies for most and abundance for few.
These people are demanders. Spend it all quickly and demand more. That's the problem with the pluto in leo generation. They've got pluto in cancer parents who have suffered continual throwing back on themselves for being too clingy and they got pluto in virgo subordinates who would be critical as fuck if they hadn't been pounded to death. So they hope the pluto in virgo subordinates will go back to the easy route of their pluto in pisces opposition and simply serve them.
But those days are gone. Now we got pluto in libra kids who wouldn't know an equal relationship if it smacked them on the ass. So they run around idolizing lady gaga. The world will be so fucked up by the time pluto in scorpio's grow up all they'll do is burn shit down and throw up on people hoping to slowly dissolve them away.
Bad Ebonics - "Honky Be as Honky Do."
I sympathise with your position, but you need to square that with being a loon.
Conjecture:
Perhaps you could not make to Arizona or you simply could not make it in the "real world" so you chose the route of Waldon's pond.
Perhaps you are weak. Perhaps you worked really hard but did not "make it" or perhaps it was just your lucky instincts that got you out?
How honest is that word, "planning"? How do we now it was your virtues and not your vices that placed you in your fortunate position. How long were you jealous?
This is is a story of betrayal, the breaking of an unwritten social contract, and yes it is a sob story.
You need to understand that you are right and crazy. You are angry but not wiser because of it.
+ micro economic war!!! great post see my similar response below!!!!
Don't feel bad for these self-indulgent people - they lived beyond their means at yours and my expense - They are F-ing morons!!!! And they are going to take more out of Social security than they put in and are looking for every handout they can get.
They are as bad if not worse than the banks!!!!
economicmorphine, you, sir, are a patriot. bravo!!!!!!
And back in the good ol' days of the 80s and 90s Americans could not figure out why "foreigners" didn't so much dislike them as not trust them. As long as the playing field is tilted in their favour Americans believe in fair play. With the manufacturing base dismantled and growth through exports no longer in the cards, America the Greedy was, and continues to be, all too willing to fleece America that Plays by the Rules. And this fault between these two runs much more erratically through the country's fabric than simply between Wall Street and Main Street. "Good" Americans are as much to blame for the ill doings of their "Bad" counterparts as "Moderate" Muslims are for that of their "Extreme" brethren.
While I would like to believe that the good outnumber the bad, I'm beginning to have my doubts. Every time we let someone, be it a friend, a family member, a new acquaintaince, a co-worker or a boss get a way with saying something questionable, ignorant or irresponsible without a rebuke, or at least a debate, the lies that keep average, well-meaning people down propagate and entrench themselves.
Americans have allowed their political, industrial and financial classes to be taken over by zealots who have nothing but their personal gain at heart. To ask anything more, according to them, is un-American.
Now both hardcore Keynesians and Austrians are full of shit in my book for being so polarized on the role of government, and thus regulation, has to play in maintaining the most optimal allocation of capital which is so much more than maximizing productivity as measured by GDP. What seems to be forgotten is that people yearn for healthy communities and THAT is what a well-run economy is supposed to deliver. The human ANIMAL yearns for a sense of belonging on a local and national scale which encompasses the desire, nay, the need for competent, trustworthy leadership and the legal framework to uphold it.
Very little is well in the state of Union in this regard. A country that decade after decade allows itself to be lead, in politics and business, by thinly veiled criminals is bound to fail. When Americans in all 50 states can no longer have faith that the single most important contract many of them will ever enter into is even valid what is there left to believe in? Who would have thought that Uncle Sam would turn out to have been a used car salesman all this time? What a waste of potential.
www.wyndtunnel.wordpress.com
Truth commissions and public executions will mollify the masses in the end. Start with the regulators, corruption starts with bent cops. Then a few corrupt bankster hangings then the pilfering of bankster bonuses.
No wonder gun ownsership is high in the US, you know that government cannot be trusted to be for the people.
"Truth commissions and public executions will mollify the masses in the end. Start with the regulators, corruption starts with bent cops. Then a few corrupt bankster hangings then the pilfering of bankster bonuses."
Then what? Seriously. Where's part II?
I remember a friend of mine who was studying Engineering. He was in a course that focused on processes. He told me of an example of bad process. It involved the design and production of fighter jet ejection systems/seats. Everything was designed, tested, manufactured and installed in the jets. The last step was writing in instructions and posting the instructions in the cock pits. The instructions were printed on labels and affixed to the cockpit covers. Unfortunately, instruction #1 Read: Pull cockpit cover eject lever. The cockpit cover would fly off...taking the remaining instructions for the seat ejection procedures with it!
My point is, and what frightens me, is that unless we have a part II to a plan that starts with distroying how things are, we'll end up with anarchy. It's doubtful that a military takeover of our government would result in the appointment of Ron Paul.
movies. with all star casts no less. and tv reruns and sequels, too! and i am being serious--you know it to be true, hence "the most beautiful face of all time" being posted above.
I bought my first house in early 1991 The Interest on my debt was about 35% of my take home pay I was in real poverty I knew I owned nothing the bank did I lived on £20.00 a week and I spent all my other money on paying off my debt and sold everything after 4 years with this I owned my property outright, I will never go in debt again,
I have no interest in wealth and in the mid 1990s I decided trying to work and save for a reasonable retirement is a total mugs game watching companies after companies getting offshored I knew then things was going to be bad not rocket science,
Today 15 years later the bankruptcy of the UK due to the elites scams are becoming very clear and the screw you or be screwed signs are shining bright, I have savings but havnt worked for years and I am young and never intend to work again No jobs anyway, Not that I mind its just that I understand any money I save would be very hard to keep as the bankruptcy of the UK unfolds I am in the mindset the less I have the less I lose,
The couple in this blog being scamed by this BS just shows the people who dont play by the rules eg spend their mortgage payments on hookers and blow are much wiser than Mr and Mrs right I wish it wasnt the case but facts are facts hence my towel was thrown in 15 years ago, Wise up and stop paying Why not?
Yea...and about my fuckin taxes:
The Schwarzenegger administration is cutting off use of state-issued welfare debit cards at casinos across the country and on cruise ships, following a Times report that the aid cards have been used to spend or withdraw millions of dollars in benefits at popular vacation spots. More than $69 million meant to help the needy pay their rent and clothe their children was accessed in 49 other states, the U.S. Virgin Islands and Guam between January 2007 and May 2010, according to data from the California Department of Social Services.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/05/state-blocks-welfare-card_n_751359.html
Fuck this country to fucking hell. Half my income for this shit. I work so hard, I DONT EVEN VACATION
Amen.
Coming Middle Class anarchy my arse. You cannot extrapolate widespread revolt from one disgruntled couple. There is nothing new under the sun. 2000 years ago Juvenal spotted that popular discontent could usually be assuaged by bread and circuses.
And then came the Barbarians... like you said..nothing new under the sun.
cue Mexicans...3...2...1...
Watt,
I can give you the scenario guaranteeing anarchy, in a nano second.The day they are foolish enough to ban private ownership,or registration of firearms/weapons will be the day, America ends as you/we knew/know it.
If you pray, pray that never happens in this lifetime..........finances would be a trivial matter compared to that.
from our cold, dead hands. and i promise with every fiber in my body that i'll take as many with me as i can before they put me down. guns are the foundation of freedom. trust but verify. these assholes treat us like livestock as it is. they better never, ever attempt to take our guns (or gold).
I doubt Americans will respond any differently to confiscation of guns than they have responded to confiscation of other constitutional rights, already accomplished. Furthermore, the guns that Americans are allowed to own are no match for the high tech weaponry that would be brought to bear upon any insurrection. The only good the guns Americans are allowed to have now can possibly have, from the elitist perspective, is for use on each other and our own families and kids.
I am not sure what has taken away all of our courage. I suspect, and it is only an unconfirmed suspicion, that teevee has something to do with the dulling, not just the dumbing-down, of America. Teevee is a sophisticated medium that uses color and sound to manipulate brainwaves, as per secretive, unregulated, advanced neuroscience research. Little has been disclosed about that area of applied research. Years ago, The Economist did a short article on neuroscience research, in its matter-of-fact style. It basically said we're screwed. Teevee may, then, have something to do with the zapping of our energy, but who knows?
In any event, the American public is not likely to revolt against anything, at any time, ever again.
I guess you have forgotten about the Viet Cong and Afganistan.
The power structure has a lot going for it but they cannot keep up with every freedom-loving person on the landscape.
~Misstrial
frankly, my life is going pretty damned well, so i am not quite ready to take up arms. however, i clearly see the outrageous hypocrisy all around me. centrally planned money, fiat currency, and fractional reserve lending practices have probably caused more american deaths than any direct enemy.
i am only one person. but i have drawn my own personal line in the sand. if anyone ever comes for my guns or my gold then i will take up arms. no doubt i'll be cut down in an instant. but, to me, death would be inevitable because once this power is given up then life is probably not worth living. eventually, if not me personally, suffering would be incurred by my offspring, and i owe them much more for bringing them into this world. i promise. i will do my bit, even if it is to only take a few 'stormtroopers' with me on my way out.
as for now. guns and gold are legal, so i'll keep going to the polls and talking with my neighbors.
peace!
you make some good points in your post jplotinus, with regard to the weapons "allowed" by law most likely to be used in family, or neighbour, "disbutes" - and also how pointing out the "high tech weaponry" ready and waiting to be used when, not if, "insurrection" takes hold,
microwaves incoming, as well as devices utilising high frequency sounds (LRAD), water cannons, tazers, etc. - and of course, bullets. . . lots of bullets.
all guaranteed to be on non-stop repeatable close-up Nooz programs, now available in wide screen high def 3D. . this time the "revolution" will be televised.
yeah.
I'll be happy to turn over my Ammunition to them - by using it.
Powers that be - meet The Swordfish - and his New M107 Barrett with Leopold Scope.
A sweet weapon - 0.50 cal - takes out a Terrorist - I mean a lackey of TPTB at over 8,000 meters with with right dope on the scope.
This is Madoff Syndrome. Most people in America do not give a 'flying kite' as long they think someone else is scammed or shafted , as long as it's not them. They think they are special and by G_d's will they deserve it! Many of Madoff's investors suspected that Madoff was front-running, trading on insider information and using his NASDAQ firm to somehow benefit them, while screwing others--and that was ok with them. Well, the same thing can be said about the housing scam. Most of those boomers were buying houses as investment so it could be off-loaded on another sucker.
I am radically changing my mind on the causes of the GFC--the middle class greed was no different than that of the bankers and politician's. Let's face it middle class America---it's your fault and the bankers knew your playbook.
Middle class hate mongers like yourself is why I like to own guns. But divide and conquer is the goal . You have bought into it feeble minded one. You have drunk the koolaid . So I forgive you
linrom,
I doubt seriously the Boomers were the age bracket buying $250-$500k homes, looking to roll them.Most Boomers don't have that kind of bread, and the ones that do, are hanging onto it for retirement years, not speculating.
I say, 30-40yr old group,are your culprits.
Madoff investors were middle class?...who knew?...ROTFL.
don't ya know, Kevin Bacon's just like us. he's always only 7 separations away.
Yeah...he must be one of those middle class rich making over 200k I've heard so much about...LOL.
A 'retrired' couple with a mortgage is a contradiction of what constitutes the 'backbone' of amerika.
The backbone of amerika is a 60 yr old with NO MORTGAGE and hopefully the good sense to have little if any debt.
It is the height of irresponsibility for a retired person or couple to carry a mortgage or any long term debt that can't be paid off in 30 days.
So the entire piece brings no tears to these eyes and only contempt for those who sympathize with the plight of this stupid, idiotic couple.
Backbone my ass.
"Backbone my ass."
That would be: coccyx my ass.
Unless of course there has been some urban sprawl in the area.
Good article. But you can bet that $84 penalty was assessed by and for the servicing bank, not Fannie Mae.
POINT THAT FINGER! POINT THAT FINGER every where except at ourselves.
It's all THEIR fault! THEY did it! It wasn't me. It's not me...
Time to look in the mirror - don't you think?
The entire system is rotten to the core. From the top to the bottom.
"I would love to take a flamethrower to this place!" (Pacino in 'Scent of a Woman'.) Either the rot must be cleaned out, or let it remain in place to just keep on spoiling and rotting what ever good is left. We have a choice to make.
Yes, Mr Sims, there's only two syllables in this whole wide world worth hearing: .....
Hah! Are you listenin' to me, son? I'm givin' ya pearls here.
I'm tired of people whining that they are under water in their houses. Just means that they were planning to try to flip it or extract "free equity" in the short term. Sure, it's a bitch if you are trying to move to land a new job.
As soon as you buy a car and drive it off the lot you are under water.
Houses are the new cars.
+1
did you want to live in it or not? could you afford it or not? who cares about the lower value that someone else places on it now? its your dream home on the golf course. enjoy, just like a new car off the lot!
great analogy, SoCal.
Golden rule modified:
Do unto others before they do unto you.
I always wondered how "moral hazard" would be demonstrated. I guess now I have learned. And no doubt more will come of it.
Sry but I have zero sympathy for these people. Nobody forced them to buy this house at the peak of the biggest credit bubble in the history of western civilization. They are the problem. Forcing their bad dead out of the system would help us get out of this mess sooner. Fuckem.
totally agree and yet to the extent that "millions" like 'em can take down the banks, bailouts be damned, i say "cry havoc, and let slip the dogs of moral hazard"
I agree, people would never pay but $75/ sq-ft here (TX).. I believe they speculated and got burned for buying the same house at $150/ sq-ft in an area of the country that showing the same irrational exuberance as seen by greedy investors. Socialism nationalizes the losses- that is all this is. Lots of you poor suckers fell for the same thing and hope there will be forgiveness. Won't happen, learn to live on less.. Peak Oil and Peak America have both occurred.
Agree as well. Bought a modest house in 1998 w/a 30-yr fixed rate, re-fi'ed into a 15-yr fixed a couple years later. Paid down the principal by sending extra every month, and a lump sum here/there. Saw this housing mess, and our upcoming energy crisis, coming a mile away. Sold it in 2006, and built an ICF, active/passive solar home with 20% cash down from my savings, then put the profit from the sale of the old house into the new mortgage. I'm well above water even after the housing debacle.
I say fuckem too. They made their bed (whether they knew it or not), they can lie in it.
Middle classes still filling football stadiums each week at $100. a pop; not much time for anarchy......the sheeple won't ever turn against the government--each thinks that it is the other political party causing the problem: this voting thing with two parties is another frigging fart mess.
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2010/10/oakland-raiders-will-have-tv-blackout-vs-chargers-on-sunday/1
Not like they used to.
I saw the Texans vs Oakland game last weekend- it was 1/3rd filled. It looked like a prison league game with 2 yellow jackets security guards per small section of fans...
Nope, I wouldn't want to be there... the shit is coming down the pipe 1st in Cali.
No. Been having a hard time selling my season tickets for individual games and when I do I don't get top dollar like I used to.
Perhaps, but remember what the most important economic figure just said: the BLS reported that unemployment among Bachelors degree or higher people went DOWN, from 4.6 to 4.4.
Do you really expect any "anarchy" or revolution when unemployment among our grossly overpaid, useless, quasi-fascist clerical class is 4.4%?!??!
Dream on. When it hits 20%, wake me up. Until then, the looting will continue unabated. Because these slobs are paying NO attention.
True.
Agreed.
Gonzalo,
I like your writing but I disagree with you on this one. As economicmorphine stated above, people should not but taking on Debt at this point in their life. Everyone does it, my parents and my inlaws have home debt up to their eyeballs and it’s fucking stupid.
In my circle of friends, I am the only one now or during the boom that had a mission to get debt free and pay off my mortgage. A friend of ours with a family of 4 just last week moved from a nice 2,000 sq ft house to a 4,000 + sq foot house because they could squeek out the mortgage payment. Granted they really cant afford to furnish it and good luck cooling that monster next summer in Arizona. The electric bill will crush them. They are effing financial morons. But when it goes south we can say they were victims of the bank.
I also disagree with the notion that your couple is somehow Sticking it to the bank. They are not. They bank will be fine. Its their neighbors they are still screwing and the bill will ultimately be paid by the taxpayers .
I also love these homeowners that perform some in-depth analysis on the housing market now and decide to walk based on the price of their home. These folks certainly concerned with price in 2005.
Hey Rumblefish,
I own my modest house (I am in my mid 40s) so I don't have that kind of skin in this game. I'm curious though, did your Parents and In-laws ever do anything nice for you? Did it cost a little bit? Sometimes folks ran up these mortgages paying for, oh, I don't know, educations, helping kids with cars, down payments on their houses, weddings that the kids just had to have, their kid's medical bills, nice stuff for the grand kids...
I don't mean to be harsh, but you sure sound judgmental. If they did enough nice stuff for you and others, that may explain some of why they have a mortgage now.
My folks were too poor to do any of these things, but I know of many parents that believe they have to do these things or they are not good parents.
+1000
+65million plus baby-boomer parents
My opinion is that the Banks created the problem The Banks when they Forclosed literally Dumped property on the Market at 25% below the current Market value. Once the Market value was decreased by the sale at 25% below the Market value this became the value for all of the other homes in the Neighborhood. If a home is sold higher than the Forclosed Sale, the Sale (Comparable) on the New sale would bring the price down and the Sale would fall thru. The next lender that Foreclosed Dumped their house at 25% below the prior Forclosure. This caused a downward spiral in the value of the homes.
I do not blame the Homeowners that are stuck. If the Banks had not Dumped Foreclosures on the Market at such distressed prices, then just maybe many of these homeowners that lost jobs could have simply sold and walked away. Maybe without any equity but without a trashed credit score, and a trampled, demoralized spirit.
The Banks created the problem in the first place and then exasperated it by Dumping property WAY below Market Price. If the Banks take a Foreclosure and Dump it on the Market for 25% less than what was owed on the Mortgage prior to Foreclosure, then they should give the Original Buyer the same deal.
I would make a Law that required the Banks to give the Original Owner First Right Of Refusal on any Subsequent Sale of the Property. So if the Banks Sells the Property for 25% less than the Mortgage before Foreclosure the Prior Owner has the first right to buy it back.
Are you trying to say that the banks popped the housing bubble with foreclosures? Because that's simply not true.
Hell, if anything, the banks have desperately resisted following through on foreclusures. I'm not a banker or an apologist for them. But the simple fact is that if the banks had expeditiously foreclosed on everyone who wasn't paying, the housing market would already have been crushed 25% lower than it is now. There's a TON of shadow inventory out there that's not officially acknowledged.
Check out the Dr. Housing Bubble web site for a much more in depth explanation:
http://www.doctorhousingbubble.com/collapse-in-southern-california-home-sales-a-sign-that-prices-will-fall-in-2011/
True. And I post under "Misstrial" on Dr. HB.
~Misstrial
No, what caused this particular problem is MULTICULTURALISM,and the Left Wing of Progressives in Congress.( Bawney n Dodd)
After all, EVERY American has the RIGHT to FREE Health Insurance, a HOME,(whether they can afford it or not)a CAR,or two, 60"Flatscreens in three rooms.
And, the banks were ORDERED to give loans to people who did not qualify, or ELSE.(The foreskin hunters nailed them to the wall).
Then, the Banks rolled these shitty loans( they KNEW were shitty) into derivatives,and CDS, and peddled them globally.
And that's reality.
Do you ever wonder for 10 seconds why you get junked so often? I'm serious. Perhaps it is because you are an idiot who has infantile opinions. Kindly go fuck yourself moron.
Your post is quite correct. The banks are the drug dealers that have caused the entire neighborhood to sink into a dysfunctional, addicted and very ill society. The banksters need to go to jail, go directly to jail. And, homeowners need to be allowed to keep their homes, cancelling the excess debt they are said to owe.
It is only a matter of social conditioning that posts like yours, and one of mine as well that is similar to it, get flagged.
The only way forward is to stigmatize the banksters, not non-paying homeowners. On this I stand.
Sad story for these folks. But you ain't getting anarchy in this country. Would have happened already. People have been pushed around and stepped on for the past couple of years now and bent over and took it. If they weren't motivated then, when will they be?
Keep giving them NFL on Sundays followed by a dose of American Idol and most of Joe Public & family will be fine. Sure, they'll gripe, get pissed off but that will all vanish when the familiar sounds of the opening music for Dancing with the Stars plays on their televisions.
You are correct Harry US peoples don't even have the backbone of the greeks or french. Examples: A new war in Iraq , a nice patriot act to keep us nice & safe, Bail outs for billionaires. We had to do them all or the world was going to end.
NOBODY SAID SHIT!!
They just stayed on the couch.
Probably just as well given the quantity of firepower on your streets.
Don't forget the Real Housewives of Wherever series.
~Misstrial
I can afford to pay my debt. I can. But guess what?! I'm not.
Why the fuck pay for shit that people are getting for free? And besides, I want a new boat.
Listen people. I have not made a mortgage payment in 5 months and I feel fantastic, it's incredibly liberating. I stopped when I found out my neighbor had not paid his mortage in over a year.
FUCKIT!
And when some cock sucker comes to change my locks I'm gona' blast him with some 00 buck.
-Thomas Jefferson
Socialist entitled loser, I won't be paying for your shit. Read your post and reflect on what you should have learned from your parents. You and your neighbor are theives and are no better than those living in subsidized government housing. We are coming for you and you can shoot one or two of us, but remember- your next government housing will not be so nice.
You are not the backbone, but the cancer of this once proud nation. I cringe when I read you "proudly" touting the benefits of being a deadbeat.
Socialist? I'm not on the government dole, nor do I endorse large government that controls everything. I'm just not paying my fuckin' mortgage because I want a new fuckin boat, and I want to take sometime off work and sail it around a little bit. Why should I play by the rules if no-one else is "assfire" (more like assclown)? I'm going to enjoy some of that money I worked for. I bet the bank doesn't even have my title (I've asked).
If you try to break into my home where my family sleeps (to change a lock, or anything) you better come with the sheriff because if you don't I WILL mistake you for someone trying to hurt my family and I will give you some real assfire so bring it on pig.
I'm the cancer? Wrong, this country is the fuckin cancer, I'm the cure.
Dear Cure,
It is clear you are merely playing devil's advocate about blowing the mortgage money on a new boat. I cannot fathom risking my children's future on a new boat and I refuse to believe two parents could act this shelfishly. Nonetheless, let me introduce the concepts of shame and embarassment:
Shame does not necessarily involve public humiliation while embarrassment does, that is, one can feel shame for an act known only to oneself but in order to be embarrassed one's actions must be revealed to others. There is debate as to whether or not shame is a heteronomous emotion, i.e. whether or not shame does involve recognition on the part of the ashamed that they have been judged negatively by others.
I could not live with the shame you act as though you don't feel.
Cognitive Dissonance is the feeling of uncomfortable tension which comes from holding two conflicting thoughts in the mind at the same time. There is a poster here with that name because it describes the growing numbers of many like you. I know you must feel in a trapped position, but don't lie to yourself by proclaiming falsehoods you know are false, as true.
Dear Assclown,
My lawyers have contacted my bank and my bank has no proof of ownership. They can't find the title to my property and as such they can't foreclose.
Let me also introduce the concept of dual-citienship to you (my wife is Swiss), as you have so eloquently defined shame and embarassment to me. We own (as in 100% ours) a home in another country. If by some miracle of god the bank can produce a title (they haven't been able to for 8 months and counting) than my family and I will hand back the keys and scoot. So no, I would not compromise the safety nor, the future of my family for a boat (but I'm saving close to $8,000 per-month not paying a mortgage, and I really want a new boat) However, I've lawyered up and have been advised not to pay someone for something they cannot prove is theirs after all possession is 9/10's of the law and I have a fantastic lawyer.
Than again...my bank has halted all foreclosures in my state (due-to fraud, negligence, forging court docs, etc) so I'm sittin' pretty right now.
Please have at least two attorneys, skilled in International Law, examine your set of circumstances prior to your "scoot." These attorneys, at least one of whom should be a Suisse lawyer, should be experienced in the practice of financial law, criminal law, and extradition treaties.
~Misstrial
wow, Bob. wow.
you think it is okay to live in a house that is paid for with borrowed money and not pay back the loan?
i deposit my hard-earned fiat money in a bank, and it gets loaned out to you, and you do not care to pay it back?
you've got a good lawyer? you can just move to Switzerland?
wow. i don't know what to say, man. thats something else. damn, buddy. really?
man, Bob. what are you supposed to teach your kids? how are they going to duplicate your system of approach to your fellow countrymen?
sorry you're in a bad spot and feel this is the right move.
Your money doesn't get borrowed by anyone. Your money is really swept nightly for
investments by the banks, then put back in the morning.
As for the loans.. the banks make up the "money" on demand,
they don't even put up legal consideration. So the banks in essence "counterfieted" "money" into existence. They have no skin in the game, hence the current situation...
i got it, man. i know, dude. really. i was just boiling it down real simple for effect. i sure as fuck know that banks do not have skin in the game with fractional reserve lending and FDIC (taxpayer) protection. its the 'privatization of profits and the socialization of losses'.
ALL THAT SAID, the taxpayer (thats us) will have to pick up the tab for his default. he has somehow justified this in his mind.
...i weep for his children. he can leave them all the money in the world, but in a few generations it will be gone if he teaches them how to operate the way he does.
I used to feel that people here were interested in fixing the system. Now it appears that there are many who just want to "get theirs" cause "everyone is doing it".
With irresponsible people like this there will be no fixing the system. Just because they were allowed loans, they feel it is the responsibility of the lender to stop them from purchasing over valued shit at the height of a bubble.
Middle American, the true backbone of the country does not feel this way. There is a disconnect from the middle America and people like these (predominently in California and the NE). If the government takes from us to bail aholes like this out- the country is finished. Oh, but ahole can just go to Switzerland..yea, right ahole. You are as full of shit as a Christmas turkey.
a BIG disconnect. the state of Illinois is a great example, too. north of I-80 we have the most corrupt city in America outside of D.C. South of I-80 we have corn, Caterpillar, and State Farm Insurance. The Peoria real estate market did not get out of control because those with German Protestant upbringing just do not tend to borrow much for anything. they make do with less. yet, they continue to be raped and pillaged by bandits in chicago and D.C. through state and federal taxation. these are generally true 'salt of the earth' people who are being completely fucked over by centralized money planning, fiat currency, fractional reserve lending, and deficit spending in washington. all while they send young country boys off to afganistan and iraq to be used as pawns for industrial forces. how much weight can some parts of the country pull on behalf of others? atlas is shrugging as we speak judging by the price of gold.
So I was walking down by the lake the other day and I saw this really beautiful boat, named "Swiss Miss". It was a Riva, really hot. Then I thought, fuck it. I want that boat. I deserve that boat. Shmuck who owns it probably scammed somebody anyway, or he's insured the thing for twice its value, so no harm done. Jump started the thing and took off. Man, did she scream. Found an outlet and took it out into the Atlantic. Cranked it up to 45 knots and she just danced on top of the waves. Went down to the Hampton's to party with my buddy Lloyd. Decided to keep the damn boat, what the heck. Possession is 9/10ths of the law, or so we used to say as kids. And fuck those guys in the Hamptons. The only reason they got boats like my new one is because they raped the taxpayers and bought off Congressmen. So I'm getting me mine. Somebody doesn't like it they can talk to my Exocet I mounted on the bow. God damn I love this country!
*laughs*
Great post, made my evening!
~Misstrial
dude, that made me laugh out loud so fucking hard. thank you very much!!
a modern parable.
"you deserve it!" taken to the next, inevitable level. . .
My point is that we accept coordinated "conspiracy" all the time when it is done by the "government" or some other "authority". And "we the people" want these conspiracies because they afford us at a minimum the illusion of comfort and control. People know somewhere in their hearts that they were lied to about 9/11 and Iraq and Afghanistan and the Ponzi and so on. Yet they do nothing. Nothing. Nothing.
Your essay is spot on CD. I was introduced to a concept about doing nothing by a CPA I was using once. I had a small business that was doing poorly and was unsure what I should do. We were discussing my options, none of which I particularly liked and was reluctant to employ. He told me this, "Look, as the owner of this business you have put yourself in the position of having to make decisions. Doing nothing is a decision too. It is the decision to do nothing". At first this seemed a little silly but the more I thought about it the more profound it became and forced me to consider the effects of the decision to do nothing more closely. Recognizing it as a decision also forced me to weight it equally with the other options at hand.
It is easy to decide to do nothing and not recognize that doing nothing is a decision too. Taking action means having to consider the prospect of negative outcomes if one is wrong about the choice that is made, while doing nothing allows the illusion of control because the potential of a wrong choice is avoided. Since most choices don't demand an immediate decision putting it off is comfortable compared to initiating action that will have an unknown outcome. Expediency is a siren call that most respond to because deciding to do nothing is so easy and seems "right" because it doesn't increase the perceived risk of the situation. So nothing is what usually gets done because the consequences of that decision are not as immediate as taking any action.
You know what! This is teh saddest article i've read to date. It portends such gloom I am truly speechless.
If Ilsa can go postal then guns, grub, and my precious really are required. The destroyer of worlds has awoken
truth
I am become Death. The destroyer of wealth.
You called?
Kalifornia. Is it any surprise that Schwarzenegger pronounces it that way? And all along I thought it was just his accent!
Actually no.
I believe that is Shiva.
Kali is just his wife. (Bitch?)
“When I become Death, Death is the seed from which I grow,”
Ah Pook Is Here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2C5XuylNFLo
They should check who owns their title. Their house was bought in 2005. There is a very good chance that W-F doesn't even own their title so they can sue them for the money already paid. Everyone should do this. And that would bring the banks to their knees finally!!!
I also see a problem with the revision of the Bankruptcy Laws a few years back. The Bankruptcy Laws were change so that Student Debt could not be discharged. They also changed the Laws that you could not just file for a Chapter 7 and discharge all of your Debts, you had to file a Chapter 13 if you had a job and over time pay off all of your Debts. The problem with a Chapter 13 is that it could take you 5 or more years to pay off your Debts before you could be Discharged. This would stay on your Credit Record for 10 years after Discharge. So, your Credit was trashed for 15 years. Yet, even with a Chapter 13 Reorganization the Bankruptcy Court has no power to Modify your loan by reducing principal, interest or the term of your loan.
Yet, if you are a Business or have sufficient assets you can file a Chapter 11 reorganization which give the Bankruptcy Court the ability to modify your loan terms. There could be a Cram Down on your Lender that would require them to reduce principal or to modify the terms of your loan with a longer term or a lower interest rate. Large Corporations use it all the time to Modify their loans. But, this is not available for the average person. That is unfortunate.
Govt. took over student loans. Massive quantities of money are required to fund lavish education spending. Student loans cannot be defaulted on.
Sounds like a back door to indentured servitude to me.
But I'm nuts.
Rodent,
That's exactly what it is.............
IF after completing school, you SERVE the Brown Shirts,for 2 years service, your school debt is forgiven.
+1
I'll go further than Gonzalo....the reason the perfect middle class couple is so angry about an $84 non-payment penalty and a return to rates they had already accepted is more than just "because the Joneses aren't paying that".
It's the death of yuppiedom. It's the death of neocons. It's the end of the world as they knew it. The vision, the dream, the goals and the road to them have all been taken away.
When you change the rules and the lay of the land all around on people and set their world on it's ear, it makes them feel a gigantic sense of disorientation, anxiety and even despair. And they lash out in anger and other unpredictable ways.
There is no justice to be had in these situations, because once the change has occurred you can never go home again. Time and events keep marching on.
But history has shown that time and again, against all rational thinking, people will lash out in anger to avenge their loss, the loss of their world, the one they struggled so hard to build. They'll view any suggestion toward change as a mortal threat to be wiped out and cut down. They'll defend their old world to the death if they have to and even if they drag everyone else down with them.
Caviar,
Yep, and your ass is going down too.
They did nothing wrong, not a damned thing.
Yet, so many here, blast their ass.....unreal.
You need to re-read the story.........WHY should these people who had played by ALL the rules their entire life, get screwed this way?.
A contract is a contract, right?.
Why should the folks the Feds allowed an $8k credit towards a new 1st home purchase in '08, have to REPAY what they thought was a free rebate, only to find out later it was only a loan for 15yrs?.
And the folks that got a $9k credit towards a 1st home in '09, get the money FREE and Clear?.
Never to be paid back?.
I smell shit,and it's not on my shoe.
Someone is promoting class warfare, and it's coming from a 10sq mile shithole called D.C............
But there's a huge difference between what's "wrong" and what's foolish or stupid. They might be the same things but they *can* be different.
Playing by the rules does not necessarily mean playing smart. Not doing anything "wrong" or illegal does not necessarily mean not doing anything stupid.
It's perfectly legal to pursue a moronic concept of status to the point that you endanger your financial well being. It's not "wrong" in the sense of breaking any rules.
But it's stupid and it's foolish and it's so widespread that the term "consumers" has replaced "men" and "women" in the argot of financial news.
freedom includes the freedom to fail, DosZap. we cannot have it both ways.
I smell shit,and it's not on my shoe.
Yeah, that's your Mom.
Gonzalo,
Is this really Brian and Ilsa, or is it clip art from a marketing magazine? My Aunt Sally wants to know. Thank You. :~)
I bet you're recommending fannie stock to your aunt
No, I'm recommending some 1/4 oz silver actually. Comment is not a snark, we really were just curious to know...is that really Brian and Ilsa or just Brian and Ilsa avatars?
I second this request. I thought it was brave of them to have their real pictures up there with their real first names if it was, in fact, authentic. I hope they get to see all the comments, even the negative ones. There is a lot of food for thought for anyone in their spot.
I third the motion.
And I hope they are in fact...hispanic, black, asian or Martians...wouldn't that be a hoot...LOL.
http://www.google.co.uk/images?q=retirement%20couple&biw=1461&bih=797
The truth shall set you free. Thx.
Good snag. Darn those slippery intertoobz..LOL
Sooo...Lira's "couple" may not be anglo (defined as white) afterall...my my my...ROTFLMAO.
Makes no differnce to me...but it sure did to others up thread...who shall remain faceless...but their bigoted ideaology sure did shine through ;-)
you can bet your stash if this couple were anything but default amrkn, it would rate a mention in the article - it would be essential to the storyline.
and just because someone mentions that certain ethnicities in amrka have inherent privileges does not make them a "bigot" - or are you one of those who come running when the "Z" word is mentioned?
from the very beginnings of this nationstate, privilege was baked in, and only after long struggles were "human rights" made to be more "equal for all". . .
that's just the harsh truth, deal with it.
"and just because someone mentions that certain ethnicities in amrka have inherent privileges does not make them a "bigot" - or are you one of those who come running when the "Z" word is mentioned?"
I have no tolerance for race baiting fools whose apparent strategy is to keep the people (all the people) at each others throat's as their cohorts slip in the backdoor and steal the silverwear...and what the hell is the "Z" word?
"from the very beginnings of this nationstate, privilege was baked in, and only after long struggles were "human rights" made to be more "equal for all"
From the very beginning of this country the mechanism was in place to assure equality for all...it was all put there by white men Cathartes. At some point one has to let go of their own self loathing or bigotry as the case may be.
There are some very good threads on ZH going over this ground again by some very smart & open minded people...seek them out in the search box...and deal with it.
"mechanism"
This has been something I have been grasping on to since I was young. This is the real gift the FF's left us all. They not only had faults, they were well aware of them, and it seems they purposely set up the mechanism so that someday, someone would make everything the way the best of them knew it should be.
If I have pride in my birth land (and I do), this is what gives it to me. It may seem like a small thing ("I'm kind of a schmuck but at least I'll leave you the means to clean it up"), but in the context of the times, and in the overall march of the species, it was evolutionary, taking the Magna Carta, Rousseau, and everybody else one step better.
A work in progress with a mechanism toward betterment; that is what the country means to me.
Too bad the bankers f'd it up so bad that we'll all be back at each other's throats again.
"This has been something I have been grasping on to since I was young. This is the real gift the FF's left us all. They not only had faults, they were well aware of them, and it seems they purposely set up the mechanism so that someday, someone would make everything the way the best of them knew it should be."
Exactly the way I see it chin.
They struggled for years after the war to produce a system to match the vision outlined in the Declaration of Independence. The best they could do at the time was the Constitution and even that was not possible without the adoption of the Bill of Rights to go along with it, for the States, that is us, the people.
The level of distrust in a centralized, top down government was just to great without it. All the States, all the people, would simply not agree to it without a Bill of Rights to go along with it.
Again I will say, anyone who view's the past through the prism of today is getting a distorted view. They knew exactly that future generations would build on what they could accomplish then.
They were not about to scrap the whole thing in a quest for perfection that could very well be unattainable for men, as we are imperfect to begin with. They were smart enough to recognize this.
dude, seriously, what part of the suffrage and civil rights movements, the genocide of first peoples here, and the "legal" ownership of humans did you forget to learn? not to mention you have a very narrow viewpoint if you believe mentioning the privilege inherent in being "white" (which I am) and "male" (which I am not) is "race baiting" - I'm not even going to argue this truth with you, it is so self evident.
have pride in this country if you like, and defend your relative status as well, but know this, it's all shifting like quicksand, and the quicker you realise how good you've had it, the easier your adjustment to a global reality will be.
"dude, seriously, what part of the suffrage and civil rights movements, the genocide of first peoples here, and the "legal" ownership of humans did you forget to learn?"
Dudette ;-)
Which part of viewing the past through the prism of todays norms did you forget to learn? Civil Rights are in the documents...it was society that needed to change to comport to it...the documents allowed for it didn't it?
Was it "right" for the Cherokee to massacre & rape the Creek's? Was it right for Africans to sell other Africans into bondage? Is it right that Arabs & African's still do so today? Was it right for the NE bankers to prefer a Civil War befall the country than to simply repurchase "property" and thereby remove that particular source of antagonism? Or was it right they continue to profit from it and just write off the carnage as a business expense?
Again, it's called transference. You simply cannot transfer societal norms, however despicable as viewed from today's vantage point, from one generation to the next throughout time without taking in the complete picture of that time.
"have pride in this country if you like, and defend your relative status as well, but know this, it's all shifting like quicksand, and the quicker you realise how good you've had it, the easier your adjustment to a global reality will be."
Any "relative status" I have I earned by the sweat of my own brow. I have the MRI to prove it from those days. Nothing was handed to me. As such, I owe no one nothing. I have no guilt and few regrets. It was this system, however challenging, that allowed me to keep what I earned away from the clutches of statist's who thought they had a better use of my after taxed saved labor.
I'm glad you returned to this thread. Maybe we understand each other better now.
nmewn, you are too good. ...if everyone knew their history books the way you did, we would not have to listen to this 'feel good' drivel that only serves to strengthen a very dangerous centralized government at the expense of freedom. there are no two ways about it, and folks have NO IDEA about the dangers of continuing to strengthen the federal monster. It is NEVER a good idea to concentrate power, yet folks buy into any excuse to justify it. shockingly naiive.
Thanks chopper.
It would be interesting to hear Catherus' thoughts on men & women, regardless of color, butchering & enslaving each other...sans Constitution...LOL.
The federal government has indeed become a bloated quivering mass, taking way too much time, effort, money and freedom from the people who have deal with it. Which is usually the response to the people by government employees and their unions...deal with it.
Most of it can be done at the state & local level...as it was meant to be. I have no desire to scrap century's of civilized progress for anarchy. People who promote it have never seen it up close and wouldn't last a month within it because they are weak.
Our people are waking up though. I have never lost my faith in the American people that once given all the facts of the matter they will make the correct choices. I'm no pacifist, but it needs to be done peacefully...at the ballot box.
Sometimes less really is more.