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Guest Post: A Thought Experiment: Iran
Submitted by Gonzalo Lira
A
Thought Experiment: Iran
A whole bunch of American ships are headed to Iran, including one
aircraft carrier. Some claim this
deployment is “normal”, while others think it
might be the first move in a U.S. offensive against Iran, either
actual or diplomatic.
aircraft carrier. Some claim this
deployment is “normal”, while others think it
might be the first move in a U.S. offensive against Iran, either
actual or diplomatic.
From the Iranians’ point
of view, there’s only one way to look at this deployment: As another
provocation.
of view, there’s only one way to look at this deployment: As another
provocation.
American leadership—educated at
the best schools and colleges, multi-cultural up the wazoo—don’t have a
clue why Iranians feel besieged. They have no idea why Iran acts the way
it does. They don’t even realize that they don’t understand Iran’s
motivations.
the best schools and colleges, multi-cultural up the wazoo—don’t have a
clue why Iranians feel besieged. They have no idea why Iran acts the way
it does. They don’t even realize that they don’t understand Iran’s
motivations.
There has been a complete lack of
imagination, in America’s dealings with Iran—and that failure of
imagination is why things are so fucked up in the Middle East. (Is there
any other way to characterize the whole mess? False politesse does not
capture the sheer fucked-up-edness of the situation.)
imagination, in America’s dealings with Iran—and that failure of
imagination is why things are so fucked up in the Middle East. (Is there
any other way to characterize the whole mess? False politesse does not
capture the sheer fucked-up-edness of the situation.)
Iran:
The failure of imagination has been Iran.
The failure of imagination has been Iran.
So
perhaps a thought experiment is in order—for once, let’s try looking at
the world from the Iranians’ point of view:
perhaps a thought experiment is in order—for once, let’s try looking at
the world from the Iranians’ point of view:
To
begin: Let’s imagine some obscure Brazilian terrorist attacks China, way
on the other side of the earth, literally. This Brazilian and his
minions blow up the Forbidden City and the Great Wall, in one fairly
spectacular terrorist attack.
We’re in America—this
shouldn’t involve us. But as a consequence of these terrorist attacks,
the Chinese—screaming for vengeance—deploy their sophisticated weapons
and their millions of soldiers, and invade Canada. Supposedly, this
Brazilian terrorist who attacked China is hiding out in the Great White
North—which is why the Chinese are invading Canada.
shouldn’t involve us. But as a consequence of these terrorist attacks,
the Chinese—screaming for vengeance—deploy their sophisticated weapons
and their millions of soldiers, and invade Canada. Supposedly, this
Brazilian terrorist who attacked China is hiding out in the Great White
North—which is why the Chinese are invading Canada.
We
Americans express genuine sympathy for the Chinese’ loss. We decide to
actually help the Chinese find the Brazilian terrorist! We even decide
to help
the Chinese with their conquest of Canada! That's how much we
repudiate this cowardly terrorist attack.
Americans express genuine sympathy for the Chinese’ loss. We decide to
actually help the Chinese find the Brazilian terrorist! We even decide
to help
the Chinese with their conquest of Canada! That's how much we
repudiate this cowardly terrorist attack.
But then, out
of the blue, the Chinese leader—in a carefully choreographed official
speech—declares our country part of an “axis of evil”. And with no
provocation on our part—indeed, after we have helped the Chinese
conquer Canada—they vow to wipe us out at the slightest provocation,
presumably with nuclear weapons.
of the blue, the Chinese leader—in a carefully choreographed official
speech—declares our country part of an “axis of evil”. And with no
provocation on our part—indeed, after we have helped the Chinese
conquer Canada—they vow to wipe us out at the slightest provocation,
presumably with nuclear weapons.
Then, the
Chinese start to claim that Mexico,
of all countries, was involved in the terrorist attacks against
China. Nevermind that the Mexican leadership hates and fears the
Brazilian terrorist. Nevermind that the Brazilian is an ultra-Catholic,
who hates and distrusts the Mexican leadership for being born-again
Baptists. Nevermind that there's no rhyme or reason for this alleged
collusion.
Chinese start to claim that Mexico,
of all countries, was involved in the terrorist attacks against
China. Nevermind that the Mexican leadership hates and fears the
Brazilian terrorist. Nevermind that the Brazilian is an ultra-Catholic,
who hates and distrusts the Mexican leadership for being born-again
Baptists. Nevermind that there's no rhyme or reason for this alleged
collusion.
The Chinese use trumped up and
extraordinarily dubious “evidence” to back up this claim of
collusion—they even claim that the Mexicans are developing WMD’s that
they intend to use on China, which stirs the Chinese populace into a
frenzy.
extraordinarily dubious “evidence” to back up this claim of
collusion—they even claim that the Mexicans are developing WMD’s that
they intend to use on China, which stirs the Chinese populace into a
frenzy.
Then, the Chinese illegally invade
Mexico, and outright occupy the country.
Mexico, and outright occupy the country.
Our nation
now finds itself besieged: There are a hundred-thousand odd Chinese
troops in Canada to the north, and another couple of hundred thousand
odd Chinese troops in Mexico to the south—all of them armed to the
teeth. And back in China, they're hysterically screaming for “regime
change in America”.
now finds itself besieged: There are a hundred-thousand odd Chinese
troops in Canada to the north, and another couple of hundred thousand
odd Chinese troops in Mexico to the south—all of them armed to the
teeth. And back in China, they're hysterically screaming for “regime
change in America”.
We in America know what
the Chinese really want—they want our food. We’re the world’s
breadbasket. And while China has plenty of food, they want more. They
are unwilling to make their citizens pay fair market prices for food—so
they want to capture our food, so they can feed their citizens at our
expense.
the Chinese really want—they want our food. We’re the world’s
breadbasket. And while China has plenty of food, they want more. They
are unwilling to make their citizens pay fair market prices for food—so
they want to capture our food, so they can feed their citizens at our
expense.
Meanwhile, Venezuela—a country one
tenth the size of the U.S. in terms of territory and population—is
hell-bent on regional hegemony. Venezuela consistently antagonizes and
provokes the U.S. with their undeclared nuclear weapons.
tenth the size of the U.S. in terms of territory and population—is
hell-bent on regional hegemony. Venezuela consistently antagonizes and
provokes the U.S. with their undeclared nuclear weapons.
But
what can we do? The Chinese support Venezuela with weapons, billions of
dollars in aid money, and the full weight of their political and
military power. Venezuela provokes us constantly, to the point of
stationing three of their submarines—loaded with nuclear missiles—not
fifty miles off America's East Coast. In easy striking distance of
America’s major cities.
what can we do? The Chinese support Venezuela with weapons, billions of
dollars in aid money, and the full weight of their political and
military power. Venezuela provokes us constantly, to the point of
stationing three of their submarines—loaded with nuclear missiles—not
fifty miles off America's East Coast. In easy striking distance of
America’s major cities.
Meanwhile, back in
China, the woman who is the current Foreign Secretary not only openly
hates us, she once said that even a minor skirmish with Venezuela would
result in the U.S. being "wiped off the face of the map"—meaning,
presumably, a nuclear response.
China, the woman who is the current Foreign Secretary not only openly
hates us, she once said that even a minor skirmish with Venezuela would
result in the U.S. being "wiped off the face of the map"—meaning,
presumably, a nuclear response.
We have no
nuclear weapons. But we do have a whole lot of hate for both China and
Venezuela—justifiable hatred.
nuclear weapons. But we do have a whole lot of hate for both China and
Venezuela—justifiable hatred.
America’s
history (in this thought experiment) is inextricably tied to China's
foreign policy. Back in 1953, China forcibly overthrew the
democratically elected government of Dwight Eisenhower, in a covert
operation known as Operation
Ajax.
history (in this thought experiment) is inextricably tied to China's
foreign policy. Back in 1953, China forcibly overthrew the
democratically elected government of Dwight Eisenhower, in a covert
operation known as Operation
Ajax.
Then, China installed their
puppet-dictator, Richard Nixon, who ruled for 25 years with an iron
fist, using the SAVAK—Nixon's
feared secret police, trained by Venezuela’s Mossad security agency,
and China’s own CIA.
puppet-dictator, Richard Nixon, who ruled for 25 years with an iron
fist, using the SAVAK—Nixon's
feared secret police, trained by Venezuela’s Mossad security agency,
and China’s own CIA.
China and Venezuela kept
the puppet-dictator Nixon in power for 25 years, using SAVAK to kidnap,
torture and kill American freedom-fighters. Great American men and women
were lost. People like Robert Kennedy, Martin Luther King, Jesse
Jackson, Gloria Steinem, David Halberstam, Woodward & Bernstein, Bob
Dylan, Willie Nelson, Ray Charles, Paul Newman, Francis Ford Coppola,
Billy Graham, Jerry Falwell, Naom Chomsky, Jonas Salk, Harper Lee, even
poor Rosa Parks and countless others were all tortured and/or killed by
SAVAK, often with the assistance of Venezuela’s Mossad and China’s CIA.
the puppet-dictator Nixon in power for 25 years, using SAVAK to kidnap,
torture and kill American freedom-fighters. Great American men and women
were lost. People like Robert Kennedy, Martin Luther King, Jesse
Jackson, Gloria Steinem, David Halberstam, Woodward & Bernstein, Bob
Dylan, Willie Nelson, Ray Charles, Paul Newman, Francis Ford Coppola,
Billy Graham, Jerry Falwell, Naom Chomsky, Jonas Salk, Harper Lee, even
poor Rosa Parks and countless others were all tortured and/or killed by
SAVAK, often with the assistance of Venezuela’s Mossad and China’s CIA.
While
the flower of America was being tortured and killed, America’s
breadbasket was being raped by Chinese and Venezuelean interests—from
1953 to 1979, they took our food and didn't pay a dime for it. Or else
they “paid” for it by giving their puppet-dictator credit to buy Chinese
weapons—weapons which their puppet-dictator then used against American
citizens!
the flower of America was being tortured and killed, America’s
breadbasket was being raped by Chinese and Venezuelean interests—from
1953 to 1979, they took our food and didn't pay a dime for it. Or else
they “paid” for it by giving their puppet-dictator credit to buy Chinese
weapons—weapons which their puppet-dictator then used against American
citizens!
Finally, we Americans—after
tremendous struggles—managed to overthrow the Chinese puppet-dictator in
1979. (And where did the murderous bastard seek asylum? His
patron-state, of course—do we need any more evidence that he was their
marionette?)
tremendous struggles—managed to overthrow the Chinese puppet-dictator in
1979. (And where did the murderous bastard seek asylum? His
patron-state, of course—do we need any more evidence that he was their
marionette?)
China declared us a “rogue nation”
after we overthrew the dictator who had repressed us so horribly. Since
then, 30 years later, the Chinese have been consistently trying to
undermine our economy with sanctions and United Nations embargoes.
after we overthrew the dictator who had repressed us so horribly. Since
then, 30 years later, the Chinese have been consistently trying to
undermine our economy with sanctions and United Nations embargoes.
They’ve
succeeded, too—our economy is not a fraction of what it could have
been, had the Chinese not had this vendetta against us. They choke our
economy, while threatening us with their overwhelming military power,
and goad us with the Venezueleans just to annoy and humiliate us.
succeeded, too—our economy is not a fraction of what it could have
been, had the Chinese not had this vendetta against us. They choke our
economy, while threatening us with their overwhelming military power,
and goad us with the Venezueleans just to annoy and humiliate us.
All
because of our resources—the Chinese are so insane to possess what is
ours that they will do whatever is necessary to take it away. That is
why they hate us. That is why they have interfered unforgivably in our
history. That is why they want to destroy our country, and turn it into
their “protectorate”—so they can once again rape our land, and take away
what belongs to us, and to our children.
because of our resources—the Chinese are so insane to possess what is
ours that they will do whatever is necessary to take it away. That is
why they hate us. That is why they have interfered unforgivably in our
history. That is why they want to destroy our country, and turn it into
their “protectorate”—so they can once again rape our land, and take away
what belongs to us, and to our children.
They
openly say that they want a “Chinese-friendly regime change”. They say
they want “moderate Americans” to control our country—but the people
they refer to as “moderates” are people who worked for the bloody
dictator we overthrew. Our current leaders—members of the
America-First/America-Free party, good Mormons one and all—sometimes are
over-the-top, no one will deny it: Sometimes they say stupid things.
But we trust them. We know they are our representatives—not
Chinese puppets, like Nixon and his goons.
openly say that they want a “Chinese-friendly regime change”. They say
they want “moderate Americans” to control our country—but the people
they refer to as “moderates” are people who worked for the bloody
dictator we overthrew. Our current leaders—members of the
America-First/America-Free party, good Mormons one and all—sometimes are
over-the-top, no one will deny it: Sometimes they say stupid things.
But we trust them. We know they are our representatives—not
Chinese puppets, like Nixon and his goons.
The
Chinese claim that they invaded Canada and Mexico in order to
find this Brazilian terrorist—but with all their power, they still
haven't found him after almost ten years. Was there ever a terrorist? Or
was it a false-flag operation? Did the Chinese themselves blow up the
Forbidden City and the Great Wall, in order to have an excuse to invade
the North American continent? Some of their own people publicly believe
that the Chinese government staged the terrorist attacks as an excuse to
invade the region—that should tell us something.
Chinese claim that they invaded Canada and Mexico in order to
find this Brazilian terrorist—but with all their power, they still
haven't found him after almost ten years. Was there ever a terrorist? Or
was it a false-flag operation? Did the Chinese themselves blow up the
Forbidden City and the Great Wall, in order to have an excuse to invade
the North American continent? Some of their own people publicly believe
that the Chinese government staged the terrorist attacks as an excuse to
invade the region—that should tell us something.
The
Chinese plan to invade and/or destroy us—that is obvious. So we won't
give them the chance: Instead, we’ll help the Mexican and Canadian
insurgents. We’ll give them weapons and money, so we can buy time. Soon,
our scientists will develop nuclear weapons of our own: Then neither
the Chinese nor the despicable Venezueleans will ever again hold their
nuclear sword to our throats with impunity. Soon, we will be able to
strike back—and if they provoke us, we will strike back.
Even if it means our own destruction.
Chinese plan to invade and/or destroy us—that is obvious. So we won't
give them the chance: Instead, we’ll help the Mexican and Canadian
insurgents. We’ll give them weapons and money, so we can buy time. Soon,
our scientists will develop nuclear weapons of our own: Then neither
the Chinese nor the despicable Venezueleans will ever again hold their
nuclear sword to our throats with impunity. Soon, we will be able to
strike back—and if they provoke us, we will strike back.
Even if it means our own destruction.
After
all, it’s a thousand times better to die free than to live on your
knees. Living under the Chinese-controlled puppet-dictatorship taught us
that. We won't let it happen again.
all, it’s a thousand times better to die free than to live on your
knees. Living under the Chinese-controlled puppet-dictatorship taught us
that. We won't let it happen again.
Here ends
the thought experiment—but not the questions.
the thought experiment—but not the questions.
———————————
First
of all, the more you think through America’s provocations and
interference in Iran’s history, the more you can’t help but be impressed
by Iran’s self-control. They’ve played their cards much better than
either the U.S. or Israel.
of all, the more you think through America’s provocations and
interference in Iran’s history, the more you can’t help but be impressed
by Iran’s self-control. They’ve played their cards much better than
either the U.S. or Israel.
Precisely
because of all the foolish, pointless tauntings and provocations by the
U.S. and Israel, I think it’s likely that—regardless of what they
say—Iran is very busy trying to acquire nuclear weapons. Israel’s and
the U.S.’s nuclear taunting guarantees that the only thing that will
give Iran’s people and leadership peace of mind is a few dozen
nuclear-tipped rockets. And they will in all likelihood acquire them—one
way or another. Fear will drive them.
because of all the foolish, pointless tauntings and provocations by the
U.S. and Israel, I think it’s likely that—regardless of what they
say—Iran is very busy trying to acquire nuclear weapons. Israel’s and
the U.S.’s nuclear taunting guarantees that the only thing that will
give Iran’s people and leadership peace of mind is a few dozen
nuclear-tipped rockets. And they will in all likelihood acquire them—one
way or another. Fear will drive them.
For
now, Iran’s strategy of quietly but steadily fomenting insurgents in
Afghanistan, Iraq and Palestine is the only sensible approach Iran can
take. It has to keep America pinned down in those two quagmires while it
develops nuclear weapons.
now, Iran’s strategy of quietly but steadily fomenting insurgents in
Afghanistan, Iraq and Palestine is the only sensible approach Iran can
take. It has to keep America pinned down in those two quagmires while it
develops nuclear weapons.
Because that’s
Iran’s ultimate goal—obviously: From the point of view of Iran’s
leadership, any other strategy would be irresponsible and foolish. The
Iranian leadership want to protect their population from both the U.S.
and Israel. From Iran’s point of view, only the acquisition of nukes
guarantees their safety.
Iran’s ultimate goal—obviously: From the point of view of Iran’s
leadership, any other strategy would be irresponsible and foolish. The
Iranian leadership want to protect their population from both the U.S.
and Israel. From Iran’s point of view, only the acquisition of nukes
guarantees their safety.
However, a nuclear
Iran isn't a disaster—on the contrary: My own sense is, if and when Iran
actually acquires nuclear weapons, regional tension will paradoxically
ease—think India/Pakistan. And Iran is a far more stable country than
Pakistan, with none of the territorial ambitions or frictions.
Iran isn't a disaster—on the contrary: My own sense is, if and when Iran
actually acquires nuclear weapons, regional tension will paradoxically
ease—think India/Pakistan. And Iran is a far more stable country than
Pakistan, with none of the territorial ambitions or frictions.
If
and when Iran acquires nukes, the U.S. will realize it can’t fuck with
Iran anymore—it has to negotiate. The same conclusion will be arrived at
in Tel Aviv.
and when Iran acquires nukes, the U.S. will realize it can’t fuck with
Iran anymore—it has to negotiate. The same conclusion will be arrived at
in Tel Aviv.
The danger zone, I think, will
be that uncertain period before Iran for-sure has nuclear weapons—in
other words, the period we are living in now.
be that uncertain period before Iran for-sure has nuclear weapons—in
other words, the period we are living in now.
It
is conceivable that Israel will stupidly launch a pre-emptive strike,
in a misguided attempt to “protect Israel” from Iran acquiring nukes. In
fact, I would argue that this is a very possible outcome. This
pre-emptive strike will bring about a nuclear retaliation by
Iran—they’ll simply buy a few from Russia (which would be happy to sell
them, if Israel starts launching nukes helter-skelter), and that will be
that for Israel. Israel is smaller, and more concentrated. In any
nuclear war, Israel will lose.
is conceivable that Israel will stupidly launch a pre-emptive strike,
in a misguided attempt to “protect Israel” from Iran acquiring nukes. In
fact, I would argue that this is a very possible outcome. This
pre-emptive strike will bring about a nuclear retaliation by
Iran—they’ll simply buy a few from Russia (which would be happy to sell
them, if Israel starts launching nukes helter-skelter), and that will be
that for Israel. Israel is smaller, and more concentrated. In any
nuclear war, Israel will lose.
Now is the
danger-time. And it will be the Americans and the Israelis—not the
Iranians—who will pull the trigger on the regional suicide.
danger-time. And it will be the Americans and the Israelis—not the
Iranians—who will pull the trigger on the regional suicide.
»
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It is a stretch. He's kind of trying you to walk a mile in their shoes. Not everyone is capable of that.
Do you really think that the elite in Iran are not part of the Old Boys Network? Who do they have contracts with to sell their oil? Who do they get their weaponry from? Russia? China? Europe?
I am really curious.
The issue is who is playing the chess pieces and who are the pieces.
"He's kind of trying to get you to walk a mile in their shoes."
They don't have any shoes of their own. They have no identity of self. They have been fed some happy horseshit just like most people on this site about who they are. And they believe they are Iranians, men, women, tall, short, rich, poor, etc.
They are not their fucking KHAKIS.
Don't you even get the basis of this site!
Try that thought experiment. Like you can. << Your shit back at you.
Don't fence with me unless you can.
Watch FC and expand your personal definition. Please. Please.
Please.
Take a breather LeBalance. You're lost you balance. Seriously. Your much better than this. I respect your views immensely but this subject has you all jacked up. Step back and breathe.
ok, taking a nap.
ponder you own "self identity" and see if you can find out who fed it to you all these years. . . all "self" is an illusion, a cultural construct, might as well bust it. . .
C.A you are a welcome addition to this sometimes hostile neighbourhood. Keep it coming as I am enjoying your thoughts.
+ 1000 CD,keep it coming!
How about this - Their current government is 100 times better than the Shah. The government (democracy) they had before we installed the Shah was 1000 times better.
The US "elite" haven't forgiven them for deposing the dictator. I doubt their elite travel in the same network that ours do.
There isn't any one "Iranian" point of view. It is possible, more or less, to talk about the regime's point of view.
+1000
Don't you remember those vids of Iranian kids listening to modern music and speaking out. Hmmm...same in Lebanon until they were bombed - stupid stupid stupid - warning very graphic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd-43DiKbGc
Indeed, the simplism evident in someone writing about "Iran's point of view" as if the place is a homogeneous entity, in an attempt to teach us a lesson, is, well, pretty evident.
Most of the citizens of Iran were born after the revolution*, and most of those see the mullahcracy as corrupt, and Islam as an arab religion ill suited to their more sophisticated, millenia old cultural heritage. Atheism, or at least a strong anti-clerical sentiment, is very common among them, though they have to hide it. The government regularly arrests and tortures people to death over there. The police state is very effective, despite the fiercely felt opposition of the majority to the psychotic regime. Decapitating the regime, as covertly as possible, and if not possible, overtly, will permit the sane sophisticated iranians to transform that country.
No, decapitating the regime will not work. As will not war or sanctions. The kids are close to effecting that change on their own - what will help for the U.S. to provide overt friendliness and cultural exchange. And the U.S. will need that as it is poised to lose its position as the the number one fiat currency exchange. I think this will have huge ramifications and you can throw everything you know about the middle east out the window. (Not being mean - just calling them as I see them)
Times they are a changing
Yes Arkadaba, No external decapitation. All requests that I have heard were for moral support only. The fear from external is that it will damage the credibility of any interna/local movement.
VERY GOOD comment TBT!
Although I know very little about Iran's internal situation, your comment appears spot on.
Continuation of Thought Experiment:
How would the US respond if there were 10 Iranian warships sailing up and down the Eastern seaboard?
The U.S. would respond before there were 10 Iranian warships sailing up and down the East Coast.
This administration? File a complaint with the UN. Maybe draft a lawsuit.
The US would whatever AIPAC wanted us to do. Like usual. Like always.
Turmoil in the Middle East?
Another reason to buy bonds.
Just cleared to new highs again.
Magnificient...while you're at it put up a UUP chart
That worked out great for bond holders during the Great Depression...http://www.contrahour.com/.a/6a00d8341d7ef253ef01127942026c28a4-pi Not!
You should have a hot Iranian chick in a thin T-shirt here. Preferably Revolutionary Green. What a severe disappointment.
That is false. Iran has a large Jewish population.
A few tens of thousands, according to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_Jews#Current_status_in_Iran). Hardly what you would call "large."
He'd have us belive the Iranians would have any Jew's head on a stake. That is hardly the case isn't it?
Also, regardless of the Jewish population in Iran (who would be completely marginalized anyway in any Iranian regime), it's entirely irrelevant.
The actual Muslim population of Iran has little influence over the leadership; how much do you think a few tens of thousands of Jews might have?
Everything in Treeplanter's post above is true; it only takes a basic understanding of Islam to comprehend this. I read the Koran after my plane was threatened with hijacking by Islamic terrorists in 1996. I wonder what it will take for others to read it and understand what it's actually about.
Ever read the Talmud?
or the Old & New Testaments?
"The Koran commands them to kill Jews" to "who would be completely marginalized" in Iran. Regardless of the numbers, you guys need to get your story straight.
For the dim: if the Koran commands Muslims to kill all the Jews and Iran is a Muslim nation, why are there ANY Jews living in Iran? Last time I checked, marginalize does not equal exterminate.
Beverly Hills has a large Iranian Jewish population also. I have several of them as clients.
<25,000...is that considered "large"?
Jews live unmolested in Iran. They have for a long, long time.
svendtrift, Orthodox Christians (Armenians) as well.
Look at age demographics.
Less than 25,000 and now age demographics? WTF?
We are talking Jihad sheeple! That should mean ~zero (can't rule out an occasional closet Jew).
@TreeP you fucking MORON mental CRIMINAL!
The world, free people around don't want your fucking damned AMERICAN_ISRAEL WAR! WE want PEACE! WHO PAYS YOU?
Read an honest copy of the Koran, fool.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article67407...
while I would never defend any fighting / murdering done on the behalf of ancient religious texts, to consistently cite the Koran as a reason to be at war with Muslim nations and ignore the Christian militant's agenda in the US is disingenuous at best.
and Blackwater's latest incarnation, Xe, has been hired, in a $100million contract by the CIA for "guard duty" in Afghanistan:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/23/AR201006...
Not another Tom Clancy inspired fantasy, please.
Iran isnt going buy nukes from Russia and nuke Isreal.
The persian gulf among several other hot spots is routinely patrolled by the US navy.
Not a peep from the teleprompter in charge, nor the press and no sabre rattleing from Iran or Isreal, just the usual fringe blog sites.
Remember the episode of Family guy where the parents have Maryln Manson have a talk with the boy about how cool rock music is but to not get too carried away and neglect the important things in life.
I cant get thru to Marla or TD with reason because Im not a best selling author of techno-war international intrigue thrillers.
If Tom Clancy is out there reading this blog (for material in his next book) Im humbly ask him to arrange a little sit-down with Marla and TD and explain how tales of rouge nations armed with top secret exotic weapons make for a fine paperback to read on a plane, he just makes the plots up and they arent real.
Please be gentle with them Tom, youre their hero, and they are really fine bloggers and we love them very much, we just want our financial blog back.
You haven't been following Ahmedinejad's speeches too carefully, have you?
There is nothing farfetched about the idea of Iranian nukes. And they don't need to buy them from Russia; they've been working very hard on their own.
It's like black swans. You don't want to believe they exist until you actually see one.
Just like nobody imagined a deepwater well spewing oil before it actually happened in the Gulf of Mexico. Or hijacked airplanes being flown into the WTC and the Pentagon. It's easy to write off farfetched things as "impossible," but sometimes, farfetched things happen.
almost junked this - but gave you a choice - grow up!!!
I don't think the fear is that Iran will launch a missile. I think the concern is that Iran will give it to Hezbollah and some suicide bomber will get some bonus virgins in heaven for annihaliting Israel.
Riiiight, because there is no way to trace the origin of fissile material, right?
https://www.llnl.gov/str/March05/Hutcheon.html
Who cares who it is traced to so long as Israel is gone.
This discussion cannot be taken seriously until it incorporates the return of the Twelfth Imam meme. If the leadership of Iran is truely operating on that level, tracing nuclear material back to Iran will be a blessing for them, not a curse.
I just knew those Canadians were harboring terrorists!
"Lots of dumb things were done by the US during the cold war. Enormous numbers of cruel, dispicable things (like murdering over 100 million people) were done by the Communists. No comparison."
Hey, Dude, you don't understand "Cultural Relativism."
Because of their culture, Communists and Islamists should not be held to any standards, whatsoever. Conversely, the United States and Israel must be held to impossible standards which, if followed, would be akin to suicide.
Get with the program.
+++
I guess you never read about the history of the Bolsheviks. Led and controlled by Russian Jews. 10's of millions of Christians and Muslims were murdered by them. Funny how many of them fled to Israel after running afoul of Stalin.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3342999,00.html
How about the millions murdered by the British and French in the last 150 years? The British are responsible for one of the greatest famines in world history. Over 10 million dead in India in a single year. Seems the Brits decided to steal most of the grain harvest. I guess they thought the locals could just eat grass for a few years.
I could point out multiple mass murders by Christians and Jews but you are better at denying history.
And don't forget the one's that are being murdered everyday, through poverty, caused by things such as corn subsides that jack up the price of corn to use for fuel instead of food, and general raping and pillaging of other nations (see "Confessions of an Economic Hitman"). Mass murder still occurs, it's just done in a different way. And as always, it's usually done to a nation with dark skinned people, because, "they're not like us... terrorists, communists, etc".
And you should research the 80 million killed by the Islamic jihad in India. The jihad is back, everywhere Muslims feel inferior to the success of the West they are trying to make up for it by spreading Islam. It's not the Jewish religion that gave us Soviet Russia, the Soviets made Jews second class citizens. So much for your grasp of history. Anarchy is an adolescent joke, by the way.
"the Soviets made Jews second class citizens"
Really? So how did a bunch of 35 YO Jewish punks come to be the richest people in Russia in the 1990's? Look up the religious affiliation of the Oligarchs. Must be tough being a second class citizen worth billions of dollars. How do I sign up? Read some of Alexander Solzhenitsyn's writings about the Jewish Bolshiviks.
Why don't you put up a source of the 80 million Hindus killed every year? You can't cause it is a BS number pulled out of your azz. I can cite the thousands of of Muslims and Christians that Hindus have killed in India.
BrettInManhattan: +10
Slight difference: the US set up the standards for themselves. Their responsibility if they can not deliver.
Standards they use to assess other societies by the way.
Get with the program.
The US set up rules they dont feel obliged to respect.
Not another Tom Clancy inspired fantasy, please.
Iran isnt going buy nukes from Russia and nuke Isreal.
The persian gulf among several other hot spots is routinely patrolled by the US navy.
Not a peep from the teleprompter in charge, nor the press and no sabre rattleing from Iran or Isreal, just the usual fringe blog sites.
Remember the episode of Family guy where the parents have Maryln Manson have a talk with the boy about how cool rock music is but to not get too carried away and neglect the important things in life.
I cant get thru to Marla or TD with reason because Im not a best selling author of techno-war international intrigue thrillers.
If Tom Clancy is out there reading this blog (for material in his next book) Im humbly ask him to arrange a little sit-down with Marla and TD and explain how tales of rouge nations armed with top secret exotic weapons make for a fine paperback to read on a plane, he just makes the plots up and they arent real.
Please be gentle with them Tom, youre their hero, and they are really fine bloggers and we love them very much, we just want our financial blog back.
sorry! double post
Fazzie,
You got so excited you shot your load twice. It's real simple. Type the post. Edit the post. Click "save" once.
It's so easy, even a cave man can do it. But apparently not you.
I have clicked "save" once, had the page burp while things were updating, and ended up with a double post. I didn't click "save" twice. But I did then click on "edit" on the second post and delete what was typed there.
Innocent until proven guilty. CD jumped the gun.
lol
But Israel is our most specialest best friend forever.
"But Israel is our most specialest best friend forever."
It's BFF - best friends Forever.
http://www.un.org.ir/
http://www.iran-un.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&id=51&Itemid=65
http://www.undg.org/index.cfm?P=589
History of reports that outline a technology someone wants so dearly. It will help the think tanks create another revenue stream to fleece the peasants in the next 20 years.
Please read history that MSM doesn't tell you. My example, if I developed new energy to help reduce a carbon foot print. I would become a terrorist if I didn't sell the technology to a common thief.
Read, read and read all documents.
http://www.securitycouncilreport.org/site/c.glKWLeMTIsG/b.2733229/
I'll bet you had no idea about the new medical advancements. Many only know about the ObamaCare plan to tax you for free stuff.
Again, we will wait & see how the thieves respond/spin when the story of the ships arrive in Iran.
If we are going to start looking at the other guys point of view than we can assume the other guy has already won. I don't support a war with Iran , nor support for Israel , nor the people who call themselves Palestinians ... If we are going to look at the other s point of view . Maybe Iran should consider what the rest of humanity thinks about a Muslim nation seeking Nuclear ability even though the UN and every nation , that is in good standing with the ideas of Peace want.
When Iran say's 'Fuck it we wont build the son of a bitch because we dont want the world to be pissed and misunderstand us than I'll think about Irans point of view.
oh give me a break. maybe you should look at all the covert activity of the "peaceful" amrkn interventions of the last, oh, let's see, half century and more of imperialist agenda - start with Guatemala and United Fruit Company, and see where you end up.
"ideas of Peace" - *eye roll*
Ever heard of a little country named Pakistan?
That so-called thought experiment is nothing but a hairball. Go back to the Shah and start over. While you're at it, learn a little about the Shia / Sunni thing
Let's see. Registered for 44 weeks but has only posted 10 times and only once in the past 8 weeks. But you dragged yourself out of your coffin for this story. Thanks for enlightening us.
Any combined internet mention of the words "Israel", "aggression", and "war" will set the ether vibrating in such a way as to be sure to wake the Neocon dead from their intellectual and moral slumber, just long enough to rage and flail against honesty, integrity and the truth.
Yup, know all about it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megaphone_desktop_tool
Holy MOG. Incredible. Though in retrospect, I don't know why I am surprised at all...
"all your base are belong to us" - makes a minority opinion seem so omnipresent, eh.
What do the Saudi's know... they already communicated a need to "pack the bags"... and leave. Something is waiting in the wings... to be sprung. If I had to throw a dart at the board... Obama's puppet master is at odds with the heads of the 5 families... and we all know how this works out.
EPIC FAIL
First off, the missing point of the allegory is that it's in China's best interests to start a war to provide cover for massive QE in an attempt to fix their imploding economy.
Second, from Sun Tzu's time forward the ability to see things from your opponent's perspective has been valued -- considered a sign of intelligence and a source of wisdom for strategies military and otherwise. This post is a clearly labelled thought experiment, not a revisionist history lesson or marxist propaganda or any of the other knee-jerk comparisons made by the intellectually lazy and dogmatically blinded above.
Back to reading ZH via RSS w/o the inane comments.
Good point on Sun Tzu's advice to understand your opponent. And Sun Tzu said the best way to wage war is to win without fighting.
So how to get Iran to stop developing nuclear weapons?
I honestly don't think there's anything in the world the mullahs want so much as nukes.
So not sure where that leaves the U.S. if we have any risk that they'll sell nukes to whoever.
Not sure? The US just parked the biggest, baddest Naval fleet a couple of miles off their coast.
I'm asking all the folks at ZH that are against military action against Iran: what ELSE could the U.S. do to prevent Iran from developing nuclear weapons?
The real question is: is it really necessary to stop them from getting the weapons? Everybody else has them, including Pakistan, which is less stable: and what happens? Nothing. Same thing that would happen if Iran got them.
Pakistan still has pretensions of being a modern nation. Even Iran's so called moderate leaders have stated for several years that a nuclear retaliation by Israel that killed millions of Iranians would be worth it in order to kill six million Jews and destroy the state of Israel. Just carrying out the will of Allah, like a good Muslim should. There are plenty of such crazies in Pakistan, but so far they don't dominate the government.
You start so well.
What else could the US do to prevent Unilunland to destroy the human species?
You start with an assumption delivered as a given. Iran is developping nuclear weapons.
What are the evidences?
Hussein hoarded WMDs in Iraq?
If Iran sinks one of our ships with their little boats, expect 70 days for Obama to make a decision on what to do in response.
Rather than point out obvious flaws in the presentation, I'll be a good sport and use this as a learning opportunity. The following three quotes from the article generated a couple of related questions in my mind. This might sound like I am posting tongue-in-cheek, but I am not. I would genuinely like answers to my questions, if answers exist.
"The Iranian leadership want to protect their population from both the U.S. and Israel."
"If and when Iran acquires nukes, the U.S. will realize it can’t fuck with Iran anymore ... [and] The same conclusion will be arrived at in Tel Aviv."
"... Israel’s and the U.S.’s nuclear taunting"
What do you mean that Israel will realize that it can't fuck with Iran anymore and that Iranian leaders want to protect the Iranian people from Israel. Is there a documented history of Israel stating that it intends to conquer and occupy Iran? If "yes", I would appreciate a pointer to sources as I am completely ignorant of this fact. If "no", then what did you mean about protecting the Iranian people from Israel? In what way is Israel a threat to the Iranian people? Again, I would appreciate a pointer to sources that document this Israeli threat. I feel so silly that I am not aware that it exists.
My second question sort of springs from the first and is based on the third quote above. What do you mean by "Israel's nuclear taunting". Has Israel threatened to strike Iran with nuclear weapons? If "yes", I would appreciate a pointer to the sources that document these threats also. I had no idea that Israel had threatened to use nuclear weapons against Iran. Actually, I had no idea that the U.S. had threatened to use nuclear weapons against Iran. I can understand the U.S. attacking Iran as part of a larger effort to control the oil fields in the middle east. But ... Israel attack Iran? With nuclear weapons? I know it's not to take over the oild fields - so maybe they do want to conquer and occupy Iran. I didn't know this, and I am flabbergasted. I would like to read up on this story more.
Author is clueless. It's obvious exactly why there are US troops in Iraq and Afghanistan and ships in the Persian Gulf. Read between the lines, dude; do you really think the US military surrounded Iran on 3 sides by accident?
The US is in Iraq, Afghanistan, South America, Mideast, Africa and a few more places to loot the developing world of their resources and block others from access. The goal is to dictate to China, India, Japan, Indonesia, South America, Africa and others how much they can grow. The military bases we have around the world are to attack shipping, aircraft, military bases and civilian infrastructure of the the above mentioned countries.
The Chinese are building a blue water Navy and outfitting their army to protect their interests. They need to be able to project power. India is expanding it's military knowing a future conflict with the US or China is in the cards. Brazil is building nukes and subs to carry them to block US moves to steal their resources. Venezuela and many others are purchasing subs. The amount of countries secretly building nukes gets multiplied after every overt military action by the US. If you have valuaable resources and you are selling them to China or India, you are going to need nukes to deter the US.
Actually, I think the primary mission of U.S. forces abroad is to protect commerce. Unfortunately Commerce ends up running the show for the benefit of a few buddies. This used to be (kinda) corrected once in a while by a reformist POTUS, but they seem to be in short supply lately.
You mean to protect commerce of the US and it's allies. Of course any "ally" who consumes too much like India is going to be very sorry they teamed up with the USA. A few enlightened Indian military types know they are being played for fools by the US but the Indian politicians have dreams of a golden future.
Read the Pentagon's Quadrennial report. It only gives a hint of the real goals of the US military. The PNAC group gives even better hints.
The world does not have enough energy, food, water, minerals ..etc to to allow countries like India and China to consume like a western country. The western politicians are hawking their stupid climate change CO2 emission nonsense. The scam is that if you cannot emit huge amounts of carbon, it seriously limits your growth. The Chinese and the Indians are not drinking the Koolaid called the Kyoto protocol. Hense the US military solution, invasions, blockades and attacks. We don't have 800 military bases for nothing. They are placed in strategic locations to restrict the exportation and importation of resources by countries we are at odds with. The lack of a strategic base for Africom has been a sore spot for years. The US desperately wants to control Somalia and place large naval and air bases there. A bonus are the huge oil and gas deposits off the coast and the rich fishing. From these bases the US can attack shipping, air and land targets over a huge radius.
I'm not a Malthusian, even though I accept that there are physical limits to natural resource supplies in the short run.
The US military restricts growth internationally to maintain the internal social structure of the US.
Personally, I think Malthus was an idiot. However, once we severed our medium of exchange from anything tangible (gold) and coupled it with population expansion (debt)...we may have struck a Malthusian chord. Where is Mako when I need him?
Meanwhile, the fake advancement offered by the US and vastly publicized over will shrink.
The advancement offered by the US is nothing more than the one you obtain when you get someone to squander their capital faster, that person grows temporarily richer or more exactly looks richer.
So the US will have to reduce the share of its own wealth a people receives during the extraction of wealth operation.
This is where China has grown itching. They are in a position to offer constantly better deals to people for their wealth to be extracted from their country.
When the US (and others) offer that the country will perceive 10 pc of what is exiting, China offers 12 pc and so on.
"War is good for business"
Ferengi Rule of Acquisition #34
If we're there to loot resources, I wish we'd get to it and actually start doing some looting. As far as I know we have yet to get barrel 1 of free Iraqi oil.
Come on. You probably know better. Especially in this crisis.
Oil is denominated in USD. And goes and will go to the highest bidder?
Who can beat the US as the highest bidder in this game? Mind to tell?
Good luck to the one who wants to try one's luck. Anytime, at any auction, the US can come with new zeros added to its account, courtesy of the FED.
It's obvious to me, to you, and probably to the majority of the readers on the site. But do you think the majority of US consumers realize/care about this? Or that they have even the most tenuous grasp of the historical and recent chain of events?
Whether the allegory above is valid or not, please bear in mind the part of leadership that has to do with providing sufficient circus and an engaging narrative for its populace - whether they be 'democratic' citizens or subjects of a theocratic dictatorship.
Also, Americans are not alone (by a long shot) in creating selective perceptions and versions of history to justify their stance and actions. Regardless of YOUR take on what happened and why, there are plenty of people on the other side of the barricade who do believe the version above. While that does not make it a beautiful unique snowflake of a truth, WHY is it so hard for so many to comprehend that there are other systems of logic and beliefs held just as strongly by others as Americans' sense of entitlement, manifest destiny, moral superiority, etc?
Yep!
Even more so. Some 100 tears ago our forefathers saw the world in their own way. Transplant them here and they wouldn't agree and approve many things we consider righteous and natural. Is there a chance that another hundred years later (though I consider humanity may not last that long. In one way or other it'll find the way to destroy itself. I don't mean total extermination, but point stands) our descendants will see it like we do?
So fucking tired of frightened pussies crying in denial, sputtering and dumbf#s calling wars, because the world is not going their way. If there is any reason, why we are doomed, you don't have to look to long.
That would be the "besieged" part you dim wit.
Monthly Forecast
http://www.securitycouncilreport.org/site/c.glKWLeMTIsG/b.2400799/k.775D/Publications_on_Iran.htm
Running a propaganda business can be a lucrative business.
This article is an excellent extrapolation of two possible assumptions:
1) The governments of Iraq (pre-invasion) and Iran treat their citizens the same as Canada and the US treat their own citizens.
or
2) How a government treats its own citizens doesn't matter in predicting how they will treat their neighbors or in how we should treat them.
If you believe one or both of those assumptions, then invading Iraq is the same as invading Canada.
Once you've made those assumptions the rest of the "thought experiment" follows. There really is no reason to write it. Your time would be better spent explaining why the assumptions are true. Then we would have something to argue about. Instead, since you don't defend your assumptions, the argument just turns into a sniping match.
hmm... sorry. israel will not lose. bible prophecy will be fulfilled and there is absolutely no way in preventing it. try another scenario.
Yes. The Bible teaches that Jesus died as the final sacrifice - once, for all. Yet that same Jesus/God is going to call His "people" back to "their" land, rebuild the Temple for the second time, and reinstitute Sacrifice in the Temple - thereby making a lie out of the "final sacrifice" claim?? Arnold - I'm not mocking you, because I was taught what you stated. But think it through. You can either have Jesus as the final sacrifice, or God restoring his people, rebuilding the temple, and reinstituting Temple sacrifice. But you can't have both. They are mutually exclusive. Which of the two scenarios would you rather let go of?
i'll simplify it further... and he said to man, 'behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom, and to turn away from evil is understanding.' " Job 28:28
Comment deleted. Why bother?
Can you explain how you reconcile quoting scripture from the Bible while using that avatar? How do those two seemingly contradictory positions fit together? Or are you selective in your interpretation?
Just askin'
i've been questioned about it before. it's a picture of a beautiful woman. it is not pornographic in any way nor do i look at it in that fashion. i don't worry about it. i also notice that if i make any reference regarding christianity, the nitpickers really start to climb out of the closet.
The guy has an avatar of a naked woman, and he can't quote scripture? Is that the implication? Are you OK, CD? Just askin'
I didn't say he couldn't do anything. I asked him to reconcile the contradiction. And it is a contradiction in thought, regardless of the bullshit answer about it only being a beautiful woman. The person is exhibiting selective thinking and reasoning. Twice as a matter of fact.
Of course, it isn't contradictory if you selectively decide that you wish to only use certain parts of the Bible to support your case. But then that blows up some of your other righteous Bible thumping quotes.
you misspelled "of"
Now that is truely funny.
Great reply CD.
Two contradictory beliefs would be... cognitive dissonace defined?
Takes one to know one, right? ;-)
I also don't look at my avatar in a pornographic way. Trust me. It actually makes me hungry, that's all.
Hungry? They're making me THIRSTY.
intentionally choosing pictures of nude females to represent, as avatars,your point of view on a website that is predominantly male is obviously a form of male-bonding - you're using submissive suggestions of sexuality to gain approval from the guys. . .
I mean, face it, it's not to impress the ladies, eh?
(and hiding behind a nude female image to bible quote, hilarious!)
"Selling skin, selling god. The numbers look the same on their credit cards."
Queensryche - Spreading the Disease
http://new.music.yahoo.com/videos/Queensryche%2FSpreading-The-Disease--5...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AM_bUgeZWvY
He can rub his junk up against them, as long and he thinks about Jesus while he does it.
You, Americans, are so STUPID and BIGOT with your fucking bible. Who cares about bible profecies? Why make war on its premises? Are you so fucked up as not to understand the manipulation?
Hey! YOU desgust me! I spit on your mothers haircut!
desgust, you will catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. See Cathartes Aura's post below. Your point about the manipulation is valid, but your delivery poor.
Barry, read a book about the Moorish history of Spain. Jews and Christians were taxed, not killed. Have you ever lived in a Moslem country? If not, then how do you know?
Why should the mutually exclusive positions be reconciled? That would cause emotional pain and require self examination. It's simpler to keep the ideas isolated from each other. Then one can have their cake and eat it to.
Who wants to willingly invite the pain of cognitive dissonance when denial is so much more fun? Party on, the bill won't come until next month.
This is a serious issue. The concept embodied in Arnold's initial quote is what has many western Christians supporting Israel. They truely believe that ahead of us lies a mass return of the Jews to Israel, that the nations of the world will wage war with Israel, and God will enable Israel to defeat all of them, thereby bringing glory to God.
The same scriptures used to support Arnold's view are also interpreted differently by others. They believe that the scriptures have already been fulfilled (Wikipedia: Roman-Jewish Wars). But the Christian Right in America don't seem to know that this alternate view exists. And they don't think through the logic of their position. The scriptures used to support the future event say that Temple Sacrifice will be restored in the rebuilt Temple. How is it logical to think that this is a future event, caused by God, when the Bible also states that Jesus was the final sacrifice? (I'm arguing for logical consistency within the Bible, I'm not arguing that you have to believe the Bible.) The Christian Right, who think the Bible predicts something is up with the land of Israel in the future, do not address this inconsistancy at all. If they did address it, I don't think they would know what to do (the cognitive dissonance of which you speak). Arnold's position is the one that is preached from most Protestant pulpits in America. Who are the lay people to argue against that grouping. But it is that interpretation that is leading at least the Christian Right to be so in favor of Israel's current behavior.
I don't speak for God, so I could be wrong in my concern. But I think the contradiction of "last sacrifice" versus future return of "Temple Sacrifice" is the elephant in the middle of the room for the Christian Right in America.
we won't have long to wait for this issue to resolve itself.
It won't be long? Sounds like a good title for a song.
Current events have been interpreted as the coming Armageddon for the last two thousand years and will be for the next two thousand years. The more things change, the more they stay the same . . .
This particular discussion is not about predicting Armageddon. It is about one interpretation of why America supports Israel today.
see, that's what happens when people decide to call themselves "the chosen ones" - they're special, and everything they do can be forgiven, so they get to do anything! because there are zero consequences when you're "chosen" and "forgiven" all your sins. . .
you can "use" others, other religions even, to fight your righteous holy wars, you can have avatars of naked women (idolatry much?), you can overthrow nations and shit on worlds if you do it all in your god's name, because he knows you're special and chosen above all else.
it's all so childish to think your "Father" favours you over all his billions of other "kids". . .
9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Philippians 2:9-11
"... because there are zero consequences when you're "chosen"
That is not supported by what the Bible says.
"... He came unto his own (the chosen), and his own received him not." John 1:11. According to the Bible, the punishment for the chosen not receiving him (Jesus) is that God turned his back on his chosen. That is the Biblical reason given for the total destruction of Jerusalem in 70 C.E. Both the Old Testament and the New Testament predict that destruction and you can read about it at Wikipedia "Roman-Jewish Wars". (One of the victorious Roman Generals is quoted as saying there is no victory in defeating a people who have been abandoned by their God.)
If you know what the Bible says about the chosen ones, you will have a different appreciation for the gap between 70 C.E. and 1948. That is not to dis you, it's just a statement of fact. Those who know what the Old and New Testament say about God's chosen people are coming from a different place in these discussions than those who don't know.
i.e. it still all comes down to the idea of an "us" versus a "them".
Those who know what the Bible says have a different view of why the Jews were driven out of Jerusalem in 70 C.E. and why they are being drawn back now. That was my point. According to the Bible, it was/is God-caused rather than happenstance, at both points in time. Your point of "us vs. them" is valid and was not being contested.
This exchange reminded me of Frank Herbert's Dune. My guess is that a Rockefeller will be the antichrist and a Rothschild will be JC Jr...or vice versa. There's no guaranteed win unless you control both sides.
As a weak Christian, I can only take my solace from the New Testament, that what goes around comes around.
Don't get greedy! Preserve what you have. Bad times seem to be coming soon!
Buy (physical) Gold. Get together with God. Prepare with water, food, etc. Does not cost much, but may save your family's life!
Best of luck to all my friends here at ZH!
haha - while being raised Catholic, I was told I was special .... until I learned my older bro was just a little bit more special - he could serve at mass and I couldn't (just like he could play hockey and I couldn't - ringette was not an option for me!)
If the Rothschilds turn out to be French Jews from the Mary Magdalene line, that would seven seal it for me.
I always thought they were lizard people
On trouve des Quebecois un peu partout a ce qui s'avert... C'est le Catholique+ringuette qui t'a trahit. Qui d'autre joue a la ringuette dans le monde a part nous? Enchente!
That's like saying the Twilight saga will be fulfilled.
Are there prophecies in the Twilight saga?
no, but it's just as fictional ;)
Perfect :)
Thank you. I spattered my drink all over my computer screen.
Savak, but how many Americans would even know about that?
After all, they remember the militant University students that held the US embassy hostages for 400+ days as was shown every single day on TV (and I also remember the helicopter rescue mess.)
You can't expect them to remember the Sha and his Savak can you because that wasn't on the TV.
Why is Zero Hedge allowing high schoolers to post their moronic drivel on this site? What an insult to the intelligence of your readers.
I'm not insulted.
Thanks for making my point.
Oh, you are a smart one.
Aren't you two from the same side...I'm now confused
What side is he on?
Pro-Israeli I think
I am a proud Jew, to be exact. And based on what Major Kong has to say about all this, it really doesn't matter.
Major T. J. "King" Kong: "Well, boys, I reckon this is it - nuclear combat toe to toe with the Roosskies. Now look, boys, I ain't much of a hand at makin' speeches, but I got a pretty fair idea that something doggone important is goin' on back there. And I got a fair idea the kinda personal emotions that some of you fellas may be thinkin'. Heck, I reckon you wouldn't even be human bein's if you didn't have some pretty strong personal feelin's about nuclear combat. I want you to remember one thing, the folks back home is a-countin' on you and by golly, we ain't about to let 'em down. I tell you something else, if this thing turns out to be half as important as I figure it just might be, I'd say that you're all in line for some important promotions and personal citations when this thing's over with. That goes for ever' last one of you regardless of your race, color or your creed. Now let's get this thing on the hump - we got some flyin' to do."