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"M.O.? The M.O. is They're Good...."
Someone in France has seen "Heat" too many times.
A witness claimed that they gang was armed with kalashnikovs and had placed a blaring police siren on one of their vehicles to halt the van. After a brief exchange of gunfire with local police, the gunmen managed to escape aboard several vehicles that were later abandoned and set on fire.
"This was a very organised gang," said Marseille prosecutor Jacques Dallest.
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HEAT...a damn fine movie
HEAT...a damn fine movie
Real life imitating art?
How is it they do all this but they can only break into 2 of the 4 boxes inside the van, leaving half the money behind? I can just see De Niro, stop watch in hand, screaming "time" and they all scatter, regardless of what's left.
"Life doesn't imitate art. It imitates bad TV" Woody Allen
Nevertheless...these are the kinds of crooks you can admire...unlike the crooks on Wall Street:-)
What about the two guys, brothers I think, in LA in the late '90's that donned body armor and had a lengthy shootout with the police. An enterprising policeman finally brought them down by shooting the un-protected feet of the two men. It was brazen and it was astonishing to watch. Happened about the same time that "Heat" came out.
BTW I've been thinking about this for a long time. Did anyone notice that right after the LA shoot out you mention, the military (under direction of Congress) starting giving "surplus" weapons to local police because the police were "under gunned and over matched" as my local newspaper described the initiative?
This led directly to the situation we have today, where your local cop is armed for Armageddon. It seems to me that every high profile case of police being killed has led to more weapons for the police. In my view, this is simply a stealth way of creating a local military presence.
Guy managed to kill 4 cops up the road a ways in Oakland, CA. So actually some of the events that lead to militarization are fairly extreme. But Cali might be a little extreme in general; we got some of the bestest wackos ever made around here, bar none, and so many Mexican gangsters you trip over them. Real sweet bunch; lately they've been shooting children.
The center isn't holding, that's for sure.
cougar
Cougar,
I can understand arming up for some police forces. But I'm talking about a general arming up of small local police departments in towns of 10k to 30k populations. I have a client who has been on a local county force for 30 years until retiring last year. He and I sit and talk about this and he agrees, that the amount of weaponry and the training he and other small forces have received over the past 6 or 7 years is way overkill compared to what they actually see day to day.Or what he's seen during his 30 years.
They are arming and training for the 1% situation they might see in a lifetime. My client tells me this has engendered a mental perspective change in the force from "protect and serve" to "watch your back" and "you can never use too much force." He especially talks about a "us against them" attitude in his small force that wasn't there 5 or 10 years ago.
And this retired officer tell me this but he's been hearing the same stuff from other officers across the 4 state area. And I've been reading similar anecdotes for the past few years. It's no longer as much neighborhood policing and more about force multiplication and effective use of force.
Friends in New England tell me similar stories. My brother-in-law is on a small town force with 15 officers plus support staff in a town of 4k in western MA. These guys now receive week long SWAT training twice a year for Gods sake and they are all equipped with M-16s and semi automatic shot guns in addition to their side arms. This is all federal money. No officer has discharged a sidearm in 10 years and they are taking SWAT training and own M-16s? Do a Google search of this topic. You'll be surprised what you find.
CD, you're a very productive commenter here, but you need to stay in your lane.
The militarization of police forces does present a problem, on the SWAT team side of things; once a department has a SWAT team, they feel the need to USE it at every opportunity. Eventually you get doors being kicked in for petty little things, increasing the chances of wrong-door raids, dead family pets, and other bullshit.
What some departments fail to understand is that kicking in someone's door entails quite a bit of risk to innocent people; you get wrong houses, wrong people, innocent bystanders, miscommunications, etc. This risk is minimal compared to, say, hostage takers or crazed gunmen, but it means using the SWAT team for mundane tasks is like trying to swat a fly with a chainsaw.
It leaks over into regular police and security work, and some departments don't quite manage to be alert and proactive without appearing hostile. You can't go around alienating your community, but you also cannot sit around oblivious in a coffee shop and get gunned down like those four officers did recently.
However, you need to divorce all that from the issue of M-16/AR-15 rifles.
The 5.56mm rifles typically issued to patrol officers (nearly all of which are semi-automatic, as even in the military hardly anyone ever uses auto; M-16's are aquired through DRMO because they are FREE, and a good AR will run you over a grand. LEO issued M-16's often have the auto sears removed) are both more accurate AND have less over-penetration than both pistols and shotguns. These are facts; you can argue until you are blue in the face, but 5.56mm rifle rounds will not penetrate random people, vehicles, and building materials as much as handgun projectiles, shotgun slugs, and buckshot.
Sending an officer out on patrol without a long arm is, frankly, fucking stupid; patrol officers are the first line of defense against all manner of active shooters. The first rule of the gunfight might be "bring a gun", but the second is "don't bring a pistol to a rifle fight". I cannot stress that enough, and those without training and experience with firearms usually do not understand that point at all. Equipping officers with an AR-15 instead of a shotgun is safer for the public in virtually every way, not just safer for the officer. Last time I checked, physics and ballistics work the same for Smalltown, USA, just as they do for NYPD and LAPD.
Every time I hear people complaining about officers carrying "M-16's" it makes me want to bang my head against the wall. I don't presume to lecture you on economics, don't lecture me on small arms and related training.
Lastly, as first responders, patrol officers and traffic cops need training with long arms; this is the "1%" scenario you're complaining about. This is commonly mistaken for "SWAT" training; it is not. No SWAT team on earth trains annually or semi-annually. The outcome of that "1%" incident determines how many innocent people some deranged idiot might kill, not to mention whether or not that officer goes home to their family at the end of the shift. If those basic precautions bother you, well, then, too bad. If the sight of a rifle makes you wet your pants, then either grow up or keep it to yourself and leave this topic to the adults.
If the officers responding to that North Hollywood bank robbery had been issued AR-15's for their patrol cars, that shootout could have ended in less than a minute with as few as two shots fired by the police.
You're right. No need to argue. You're wrong:
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot1.htm
So maybe you should lecture us on whether or not LEOs should use one type of shot over another?
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm
This is the one true statement you have made - and even that is up for speculation; although I would definitely agree with you. I'm glad you posted 'nony', it would have been a waste of a potentially good avatar. Whew!
CD, you're right. This is the scary stuff from your post above:
us against them.
The cops were so under powered, they picked up stronger guns and ammo at a gun store.
Don't forget all the school shootings around that time. Middle and high school kids have been living in a totalitarian state for years. They are used to it. Ditto for anyone who was a kid on 9/11
Michael Pollack, Florida 1986. Now he was a bad MF.
France has its own homegrown version of HEAT.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YG4fblGeqI0
Gang? Like, a band of thugs, or France's politically-correct term for disenfranchised (sub)urban Muslim youth?
as an italiano american i find your remark repugnant
what beer are you going to have when you apologize to me in front of the president
bring me a live chicken too, that shows respect
That's way too organized and disciplined to be the work of a group from the "banlieues".
Yeah, but it isn't like the concept of coordinated and highly organized attacks, AK's, rockets and explosives is foreign here either. Not that it makes things any better or worse, just curious if this is a datapoint in a much larger trend.
or "ronin"
Will be interesting to get the full story on this:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2010/01/04/2010-01-04_2_federal...
I am Chumbawamba.
Expect to see more of this as an increasingly impotent citizenship begins to recognize how impotent they really are. At this point I have no idea what's really behind this shooting or who it was/is directed towards. And we might never really know considering the recent history of the fawning corporate controlled main stream media.
We all have a tendency to slip deeper and deeper into denial as we feel the four walls close around us. Until one day a few of us go crazy and pick up a gun and start shooting. Since this was in or around a court house on a Monday morning, it might just be an unhappy ending to a divorce proceeding. But very few of us look any further than the surface for the results of the stress and strain the average Joe lives with on a daily basis. And not just since the "economic crisis" began.
When people see no way out, picking up a shot gun looks reasonable to some very desperate people. Like I said, expect more as society comes under ever increasing strain.
you say you have 'no idea' about the cause but that doesn't stop-a you from saying it's related to the 'impotent citizenship'.
strike one
you say 'we all have a tendency to slip deeper and deeper into denial', when you should say you have a tendency to do that-a.
strike two
you say 'expect more' but again have no clue about the cause and you blame the media for false representation.
strike three asshole
no waste my time
you counted the "no idea" thing twice...so...more like 2 strikes, one ball...you're an arrogant prick.
fiasco,
You've only been around ZH for about 3 weeks and already your "I speaka poor Englisha" has been beaten to death. If you're going to pull if off, at least try to be more convincing. It's old and not funny so why persist?
I figured you to be a deadbeat troll but I wanted to make sure before I said as much. So I just wasted 15 minutes looking at the comments you left on 10 different articles over 3 weeks here on ZH. I've never seen so many junked comments in my life, so it seems my opinion of you has lots of company. Even the other Mario "brother" here on ZH doesn't like your attitude-a. I read that ammusing string of comments between you and him where he basically disowns you. Very funny-a.
While you are most certainly free to object to my opinion, it's clear from your comments that your opinion is rarely about the subject matter and usually about other posters. This is a clear case of small dick-i-tis-a and no brains-a, where you get your rocks off beating on other people rather than walking out on a limb and expressing an opinion that someone else might object to. Better to take the offense and be offensive than risk entering into an actual discussion.
Strike one, two and three-a.
Ouch. Hey CD, which article was it that he got 1UPed by Luigi? I'd check, but was hoping for you to offer the hook up to save us the time.
Thanks-a you again, a-Paisan!
http://www.zerohedge.com/cf/v1i1?page=1
If the comments are not on this page, try the second page of the comments section.
HAH! That's rich. Thanks CD!
dear cognitive dissonance
thank you for reviewing my work. the best compliment a student can have for his professor is to go beyond his professor
one day, i hope you can go beyond my work
never mind the other mario, i owe him money
let's review you rebuttal, but wait, you don't say anything
next time you want to add a narrative to a piece of news, please have something to back you up-a
that's how it works
please review my work again
i will be introducing premium content in the future
please apologize to the site and send me a fresh chicken
Marla's gonna' bitch slap the whole bunch o' youse for not playin' nice !!
Vegas Court House Shooting on Youtube. Sounds like Baghdad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7HiFbJyrzk&feature=player_embedded#
Well... there is this extremely large gang in the USA. They have infiltrated nearly every city big and small and are armed with guns. Some have 'advanced' weaponry that only a handful of years ago was reserved only for the military. They also fleece the sheeple for money, harass citizens, physically harm both person and property on a regular basis and use illegal interrogation tactics more often than i care to mention here.
BTW, they have been known to kill innocent US citizens and cover up the facts.
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=54162036
MarketTruth:
Spot on; very, very disturbing video;
This is what happens after 3 or 4 decades of bleating that the "cops are outgunned" and "let's give them the tools to do their jobs!"
That's what US soldiers have said about the Sandbox Warz: [There's a lot of different 'gangs'. We're just the biggest one."]
That is such an excellent vid. Surely there are many law enforcement officers with a 'good temper', but the bad ones tend to spoil the bushel when integrity is compromised and whistleblowing is severely discouraged.
MarketTruth:
Thanks for the post.
Not really too new. Police work has alwayis tended to attract a certain type of personality.
Before the full development of the interstate system, "speed traps" were common in some locations in the South. And south Chicago could be really tough. Nothing malicious, all they wanted was the money from a fine. Several personal experiences, one with an outright lie by the officer. (Full story not worth the time.)
My dad was a cop for 14 years, was a civilian contractor in Vietname for 5 years training cops there, and came back to the US to spend another 15 years training cops here.
He once told me; you stay away from cops. He wasn't the dramatic kind, and left it at that. Talk about getting the chills.
There are really bad cops out there. Meaning crazy ass fucks wearing badges. And there are enough of them that running into one in a dark alley just after he broke up with his fourth wife/gf/mistress isn't even a statistical fluke. So yeah like dad said, you stay away from cops.
cougar
I'd stay away from them also but I have too many in the family. All coppers should be required to undergo "psycho-logical" screening annually .
What's the old saying ?? You can pick your friends, but you can't pick your family.....sigh.
when all those boys come home to unemployment they will be " oh gee now where to I get a job with all these specialized skills. I wonder who will hire me".
The scene at 52-53 minutes in was a training exercise to deploy tactics and see how the sheep will react. Did you notice nobody said "Fuck-You, I was here minding my own business" . And that is how those whos name is on the list will be collected for.................................
Typical Americanocentrism. These thieves have seen Depardieu and Auteil too many times.
Let's see, an English speaking group of people get together to create an English language blog focused primarly on American financial issues and how they affect the America obsessed world. Yea, I guess you got it right. Typical American centrism. I knew I should have taken that 3rd year of French.
Don't you mean "American speaking..."? The English must surely have ceded all rights to "their" language by now.
My attorney, an English born and raised expat, has many strong opinions regarding the American destruction of "her" language. She is very careful to make sure every American within shouting distance understands that we are not speaking "English" but American.
Of course, she says this with typical English charm. While at a party over the holiday, I witnessed her verbal dismemberment of an extremely intelligent (but belligerent) man with such finesse that as he walked away stunned, I heard him say to no one in particular "What did she just say?" I've heard through another attorney that she occasionally corrects the presiding judge's "American" and is infamous for holding court at state bar gatherings.
I had my payback when I sent her an invoice last year for a rather large sum, explaining I was billing her for my time over the past 10 years, which she wasted (and billed me for) when she would lecture me on my English. She sent back a check for the full amount, informing me in the attached letter that anyone as "cheeky" as myself deserved to be paid. I cashed the check, proving how cheeky I was.
Well played.
I finally got around to reading this post - most excellent, CD. I'm sure you had all the documentation and she new fighting it would be a waste of her time. If only Americans knew how much they could do for themselves instead of having some paralegal do all the photocopies at the full rate, including their lunch plus expenses for the duration. It should be fraud, but, adults do have to right to nod their head and just pay the bill.
stranger opts to make his very first comment a snide dismissal of marla's post. my guess is that the person(s) who comprise marla are anything but "americanocentric".
that being said the preview looks pretty cool and i have added your suggestion to my netflix queue
Americanocentrism is a cliché. I thought everybody knew that. Or is this forum that Americanocentric?
The shaped charge indicates they are technically proficient.
You can't see "Heat" too many times.
"We're not taking your money. We're taking the bank's money".
That's more than Timmy, Benny and their masters can say.
+1 to this...you cannot see that movie too many times.
The bounding overleap infantry tactic is a necessity to draw from this movie. If you know how to do this at a squad level and your opponents in a firefight do not, you will kill them every time.
My only beef with the movie was the the lack of damage that Pacino's FAL did to automobiles. In real life, military carbines, ESPECIALLY a 7.62N, will chop that isht up. Cars are NOT cover.
It wasn't a 7.62; it was an FNC 80 in 5.56 X 45mm (.223 Remington).
Ah, I see that. Still would chop up a car. So who the hell had the FAL?
This one is pulling off her own heist.
Low risk, record high returns.
http://dominateyourwatercooler.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/tiger-woods_4...
Heh, he started it. :>)
That's not a heist. That's a severance package, Robert Nardelli style.
Q- Why is divorce so expensive?
A- Because it's WORTH IT!
Just ask Arthur Blank.
Marla, nothing serious -financially speaking to talk about? forget the French gang... tell us about yourself. That's the way to start 2010... come on bunny, we're all friends! ;-)
Someone reported over a 1000 cars burned there on the New Year Eve. I wouldn't expect it to make news in here. The trigger happy institutional investors must remain calm at all costs or ELSE.
Great scene. Classic movie. Gotta love the French. Thanks Marla.
I bet the people who pulled this of are from the Balkans .... M.O fits perfectly ... Serbs, Croatians, ,maybe a mixed gang ...
So, which worker drone is missing his bearer bonds?
someone call VanZant and offer an exchange. He'll buy back the bearer bonds at 10 cents on the dollar.
It is time the French junked their version of the second amendment and banned guns. That will teach them gangsters!!!
Smells like Spetsnaz.
which "Spetsnaz"
great flick indeed. andy mcnab (british special forces vet 22 regt SAS) was the advisor for the film. hence polished weapon handling, mag changes, squad level tactical advances etc. read his book "Bravo 2 zero" for account of disastrous behind the lines scud busting patrol in iraq. also "immediate action" and "seven troop" most recently. abso-fing-lutely crackingly good reads. enjoy!
buster B