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Spot Gold On June 1, 2010: $2000.00





 
 

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Sat, 11/14/2009 - 20:21 | 130860 Renfield
Renfield's picture

Know the feeling, Jerome.

It's so easy to feel 'rich' when you have a big pile of gold silver & plat and the numbers keep going up.

BUT...that's just fiatsco numbers. Who cares what they are, when they're only tracking an inevitable fiat collapse? Interesting in an 'I was there' sense but NOT as a track of my wealth. The day I switch my gold for a pure fiatsco again is the very same day I stop sleeping well at night, knowing that I am plugged back into the peasant poverty matrix and no longer have a core of capital wealth.

Fiatscos are only for trading. That's what we used them for now. Our savings are in metal.

I am only as wealthy as however many pieces of gold I can accumulate. I have X pieces of gold, X pieces of silver, X pieces of plat. That's it...and despite the surging charts, alas, they have not changed in the last few days. So I'm still as rich or as poor as I was when the fiat numbers were at $1050 (last time I bought).

Sigh...bit 'deflating' having to tot up my wealth in real terms. I picked a bad year to stop getting tipsy on wine while pointing & laughing at the PM charts.

 

Sun, 11/15/2009 - 11:46 | 131172 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

BUT...that's just fiatsco numbers. Who cares what they are, when they're only tracking an inevitable fiat collapse?

I care.  A portion of my holdings constitute a "get out of debt free" card.  You know, as in "free house."

Sat, 11/14/2009 - 10:28 | 130596 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Barrels of oil/ounce of gold has been rising.

Sat, 11/14/2009 - 09:10 | 130561 Pat Shuff
Pat Shuff's picture

Jefferson's Secretary of the Treasury, reduce the public debt to $45 million by 1811, and by 1835 the national debt had been fully repaid. Following the war with Mexico, the national debt rose again to $65 million, and it reached $2.7 billion, or about 30 per cent of national income, by the end of the Civil War. By the beginning of the First World War it had been reduced again to about 10 per cent of national income but rose again to 30 percent during that war, and to $260 billion, or about 120 percent in the course of the Second World War. It was reduced to below 40 per cent in the 1960s but had risen to over 60 per cent by 1982 and by the end of 2008, it had reached $10.3 trillion, or about 60 per cent of GDP. [15] and is expected to rise to 112 per cent of GDP in 2014[16].

Among the influences upon sovereign spread is the size of the national debt as a proportion of GDP. As that proportion rises, a point is eventually reached at which more money is required for debt repayment than the government can raise from taxation. At that point, the only alternative to a default is repayment with money created for the purpose by the central bank [22]. Money creation aside, default is the inevitable long-term outcome if national debt persistently grows as a percentage of GDP . That is known as the debt trap (which is further discussed in the article on fiscal policy).

Thus, even if debt has cost advantages over taxation as a means of financing government expenditure, perceived default risks arising from the debt trap impose a limit upon its employment. An additional limiting factor is the confidence of international investors in the probity of the issuing government, since they can raise the default risk by demanding compensating interest rate increases.

 

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I knew that net government revenues from taxes for '09 versus '08 were pretty brutal, but I recently looked back to '07. In October'07 the U.S. government received net $150 billion in taxes. In '08 it was something like $133 billion and in '09 they got $110 billion. That's at least three years in a row of contraction in tax revenues. --web

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Such a development is highly costly. As Friedrich August von Hayek put it: "… the chief harm which inflation causes … [is] that it gives the whole structure of the economy a distorted, lopsided character which sooner or later makes a more extensive unemployment inevitable."[3] And: "Inflation at first merely produces conditions in which more people make profits (…). In order for inflation to retain its initial stimulating effect, it would have to continue at a rate always faster than expected."[4] It might therefore not take any wonder that central banks, in a desperate attempt to keep the economies going, try their best to increase money and credit supply further via record low interest rates.

Admittedly, the economic mainstream believes that a low interest rate policy is helpful for stimulating output and employment: lower borrowing costs are widely expected to translate into higher investment, job creation and, ultimately, growth. However, such an outcome is far from clear. In fact, a cheap monetary policy might not reach its goals but end up achieving quite the opposite of what it is intended to do.

What is often overlooked is that a low-yield environment reduces the economic incentive to adjust scarce resources to new circumstances. An artificially low interest rate can thus be expected to water down the need to bring about product and process innovations, a crucial ingredient for sustained growth. Low borrowing costs prevent the market exit of relatively inefficient suppliers, whereas it becomes harder for higher performers to gain market share, cementing inefficient market structures. Finally, there is a danger that a low interest rate policy encourages only low yield investment, which, should interest rates rise, would become unprofitable, causing a further business cycle crisis.

Rising indebtedness within the economy, coupled with disappointingly slow economic growth, could provoke public pressure on the central banks' low-rate policies. If central bankers do not see the need, nor have the courage, to pursue a pre-emptive policy – that is, raising rates towards more neutral levels before any crisis unfolds – the cheap money policies will remain in place, in the hope that an economic improvement or a rise in inflation provides adequate ammunition to embark upon a restrictive monetary policy. However, if central banks wait too long, there is a risk that the rise in indebtedness will seriously undermine the consensus for a stable money policy: a rising number of borrowers may hope to find relief as higher inflation devalues their real debt.

An "unwanted" debt trap is actually a result of a monetary policy which does not follow rules but bases its decisions on discretion. This is the Zeitgeist monetary policy that has been nurtured in the last decade: policy makers have increasingly focused their policy actions on immediate developments (cyclical swings), rather than seeking to preserve general conditions (maintaining long-term price stability). Under such a regime, sooner or later a central bank is likely to fall victim to its previous mistakes: the bank would be forced to adjust money supply to attune for the damage already done. One unwanted result of such enforced action would inevitably be a debt trap.

This situation can largely be attributed to policy makers' neglect of money and credit expansion factors, which influence prices in the medium- to long-term but not in the short run. The marked increase in indebtedness in the western industrialised countries, especially as a result of the major central banks' cheap money policy, should have convinced policy makers to change course already. However, it is worrying that central banks show no sign of returning to a more "normal rate policy", as evidenced by the still record low long-term (real) capital market yields. This might well be taken as an indication that markets could believe that central banks are already caught in a kind of debt trap.

http://mises.org/story/1771

Supposedly the only adult chaperones in the room, the keepers of the punch bowl, have instead backed up a tanker truck full of vodka, unrolled the hose and are leaving the valve wide open.

A peck at pickled peckers for one's children's friends the chickens.

 

  

 

Mon, 11/16/2009 - 17:56 | 132383 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Ever watch a vehicle fish tail down hill while towing a trailer?

Every instinct tells the driver to brake, but that's deadly....control will be lost, and the vehicle and trailer will be totalled.

One has to speed up, to halt the fish tailing. Yikes.

Then one has to drive straight ahead, and slowly brake,
until they can get down to a safe speed.

If fish tailing re-emerges, one has to speed up again, and retry.

This is the vehicle equivalent of a debt trap.
The Feds want to speed up, but only temporarily, to regain control, and then they want to have a controlled braking.

Question is, are they already going too fast for it to ever work....I thing there is a good chance that answer is yes.

Mon, 11/16/2009 - 19:15 | 132464 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

I liked this. I wonder if more can be extracted from the metaphor? Is each CB trying to deal with their own debt trap or is Benny and his jets trying to outrun the world's momentum to get rid of distortions before slowing it down? If there is more than one driver fishtailing at the same time, it would be interesting to know where they are relative to each other.

Just playing.

Sat, 11/14/2009 - 07:59 | 130542 relygrfo
relygrfo's picture

 

I have been waiting since the 11th for Zerohedge to talk about this article:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/industry/mining/6546579/...

Why would anyone want to buy Gold Shares instead of physical gold? Aren't you buying something that doesn't exit? Isn't it the same as all those chopped up mortgages where a dozen or more people own the same confetti piece? Who gets the gold when everyone rushes in to sell?

 

Sat, 11/14/2009 - 09:05 | 130563 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Gold shares is a totally viable and practical way to own bullion. Even though you do not hold physical gold as a shareowner, all the shares are backed by physical gold inventory that does indeed exist. Owning physical gold is a less transparent market with higher transaction costs and likely not worth it unless you're of the view that financial firms that sponsor the gold shares are running a scam and don't actually hold the reserves.

Sun, 11/15/2009 - 11:50 | 131173 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

unless you're of the view that financial firms that sponsor the gold shares are running a scam and don't actually hold the reserves.

Someone famous once said "A gold mine is a hole in the ground with a liar standing over it."  This is not true of producing, established miners, but in the rush to come it will probably be true once again of newborn juniors.  ETF's?  You be the judge.

Sat, 11/14/2009 - 17:10 | 130794 delacroix
delacroix's picture

gold etf's are not required to hold physical metal. they may lease bullion, or hold some in a vault. just check out who administers these etf's to get an idea if you can trust them. its the same banks that have been supressing pm prices. (caveat emptor)

Sat, 11/14/2009 - 16:17 | 130760 JamesBrrando
JamesBrrando's picture

you actually believe that?

 

omfg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

loool

no wonder people are so easy to scam!

Sat, 11/14/2009 - 14:43 | 130713 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

I'm sure they are all backed just like Fort Knox. Except if your foolish enough to beleive any of them at this point what ever happens to you is deserved. You can tell the paper has little to do with the physical just by how much the spread between spot & actual physical purchase has increased over the last couple years.

Sat, 11/14/2009 - 14:39 | 130708 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Anon, while commenting:

http://www.williamhallmarkart.com/store/html/images/1004.jpg

Anon after going long "gold shares:"

http://imagesoftheworld.org/Ephesus/slaughtered-lamb.jpg

[Edit: This is in no way advocating violence against anon. If anything this is an effort at violence prevention.]

Sun, 11/15/2009 - 04:57 | 131082 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Might just have to register...

Well, went "long gold" quite awhile back (as in years), and I assure you I do not feel at all like a sheep at slaughter. Except I don't consider it "long" as IT IS NOT AN INVESTMENT, it is a store of wealth - one I am sure will have some value anywhere in the world I feel like going and even for my children long after I'm gone, should we (hopefully) never need to use it. When such is your purpose there is no other "choice" but to own physical (and have it IN YOUR POSESSION).

I suppose playing with paper is a way to make money for those who wish to play roulette - I choose to go to Vegas for such activity. The only interest I have in the US market at this point is the markets for our farms crops. Between the farming income and our work income (my better half's and myself - the farm we lease out - it's all profit as the farm is paid for) we have all the paper play money we need.

Sat, 11/14/2009 - 07:39 | 130538 Gunther
Gunther's picture

Marla,

2000$ is quite an ambitious target. The big bull moves starting fall 2005 and summer 2007 were some 60% outbreak to top. Assuming that now is a similar situation would make for a nice run but not 2000$ in June 2010. To get there and stay there in a short time a stronger driver is needed, say a COMEX default or the bankruptcy of a bullion bank that is short gold. A central bank panicking to get rid of Dollars and buying gold would do it too.
All those events are not very likely in a short period of time.

Sat, 11/14/2009 - 09:42 | 130579 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

DON'T FORGET ISRAEL MAY DECIDE TO "GO IT ALONE" WITH THE PERSIANS. YOU COULD WAKE UP ONE MORNING TO $300 A BARREL AND $20 PER GAL. AT THE PUMP. GOLD AND SILVER WILL UNDOUBTEDLY REMAIN AT THE TOP OF THE RELATIVE HILL.
ONE CAN NEVER TELL WHAT A DAY MAY BRING..........
BRAVO 7

Sat, 11/14/2009 - 13:45 | 130678 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

It will take 30 dollars a gallon gas to force us to stop driving to work.

By the time the gasoline is bought at 30 dollars, our net income will be roughly 200 dollars a month towards food. And nothing for utilities.

We have trees on our land, dutch ware to cook on over the burn pit and a month's worth of food to eat on.

Israel can fry the Iranians for all we care. Just do it proper and leave nothing left for the Iranians to do anything about it for a long time.

Ask us again what to do after our "Off-grid" supplies run out and gas still at 30 dollars or more.

Then we be up the river eh?

Sat, 11/14/2009 - 05:23 | 130529 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

$2000-$2500 if they do a good job holding the Matrix together

Much much higher if they slip up

Sat, 11/14/2009 - 05:07 | 130524 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Speculators are not gamblers. We buy on the dips, (as do the central bank plays) it is not in our interest to create a "panic-buy" environment. To suggest Gold at $2000 by June is the equivalent of betting on armageddon. Gold will continue to go up, as the technicals show, but if it gets ahead of itself, it will shorted in the futures and profits will be made. Remember, buy and hold physical gold for a rainy day (or extreme event), but trade paper gold to make money.

Sat, 11/14/2009 - 13:53 | 130682 spekulatn
spekulatn's picture

Remember, buy and hold physical gold for a rainy day (or extreme event), but trade paper gold to make money.

 

Nice little nugget to remember. Thanks #130524

 

"MARK IT ZERO, DUDE"

 


Sat, 11/14/2009 - 04:31 | 130519 Grand Supercycle
Grand Supercycle's picture

 

I'm still expecting a significant USD rally when the bear market rally ends.

And the Dow bearish rising wedge lines on the daily chart are converging ...

http://www.zerohedge.com/forum/market-outlook-0

 

 

Fri, 01/08/2010 - 19:48 | 187771 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

And would it be so far fetched that that 'event' is the next flight to safety?

And then would it be so far fetched to think the crowded trades would unwind a bit which might delay the run over $2000? Perhaps even a deflationary washout?

Say $850 before $2000?

Sat, 03/27/2010 - 01:27 | 277950 SILENCE DOOGOOD
SILENCE DOOGOOD's picture

  $850 before $2000? Lets hope so. A dip is never a delay, it is only an opportunity for those who have vision.

Sat, 11/14/2009 - 19:33 | 130863 Renfield
Renfield's picture

Do you think they'll bring down the equity markets this close to the Xmas retail season? I don't.

I quit execting a market crash when it didn't happen in June, but thought maybe we'd see something in October. No dice.

Now I think we may get a crash early in the new year, and then you might get some USD rally, but for the rest of 2009 I don't think so...not due to technicals, but just due to the retail and bigass bonus seasons. Safe bet that for the rest of this year 'they' won't let it happen...

Sat, 11/14/2009 - 12:22 | 130634 msorense
msorense's picture

I agree - question is where will gold be in Dec. 2010 or June 2011.  There I think it will be higher than $2000

Sat, 11/14/2009 - 09:09 | 130567 Jerome Lester H...
Jerome Lester Horwitz's picture

Wouldn't we need interest rates significantly higher than they are now for this to happen?

How will the powers that be strengthen the dollar for this to occur?

Sat, 11/14/2009 - 02:29 | 130487 jimmyjames
jimmyjames's picture

Well--if we can stumble along like we are until June,I doubt it will be over 2000 and might be below 1000--

But--we have that always looming currency crises hanging over us and should Central Bankers,be forced into the gold markets,to stabalize one or more major currency's from collapsing--then all bets are off,as to price--

2000 "could" be--way below the June price--

 

Sat, 11/14/2009 - 02:18 | 130481 Master Bates
Master Bates's picture

I think that most of the people that are thinking gold will go to 2000 bucks in six months are engaging in some serious wishful thinking.

Even at the current rates of inflation, it's not like the dollar will lose half of its value in six months.

Couple that with the fact that everybody and their mom is buying gold, and the fact that it's the moron-du-jour retail trade of the year, seems to almost bode to be bearish to me.  GLENN BECK says to buy gold.  That guy's a fuggin moron.  Right there should be common sense that the market is already pretty well saturated.

I know that my words will be looked down upon with great vengeance and furious anger by the gold fanboys on this board... but 2000 bucks in six months?  Get real!

Sat, 11/14/2009 - 15:37 | 130739 Guy Fawkes
Guy Fawkes's picture

Curious

Tell me Master Bates do you hold any gold? I'm guessing not by your comments. Do you personally know anyone buying gold? That has any gold? I'm also guessing not.

So if you don't have any and nobody you know is buying then how is the market already saturated? Because Glenn Beck is screaming it? Instead of watching FAUX news what do the boots on the ground say?

Gold is not in a bubble and only the smart money is getting in at this time. Do I think it will be $2K in six months? No.... no way...because its way too early for the mania.

Bubbles have rules. You would need to have everyone you know telling you to buy gold because it never goes down. You would need to have increasing and unlimited supply. None of these factors are in place. Gold will exceed $2K but not in six months.

Sat, 12/05/2009 - 13:34 | 153916 jaxville
jaxville's picture

Good Points

 

  I am a bullion dealer and I can asure you and all else here that the vast majority of folks are NOT buying gold or even proxies such as shares or ETF units. Jim Sinclair has said that the public will miss out on gold and I have to agree with his assesment.

 

 It is unlikely that any more than 2% of those with savings hold actual specie and probably less than 10-15% of investors have exposure to the sector outside of general or diversified mutual funds.

 

 While public acquisition of specie is growing, it isn't even at the level it was this time last year. Premiums and wait times for RCM products such as maple leaf coins are still below last Fall. Most folks have yet to understand that what we are dealing with is a monetary crisis as our respective credit based systems required toxic debt, massive derivative creation and other creative nonsense in order to prevent previously created debt from overwhelming the entire economy.

 

  I don't know what the dollar price of gold will be in June, although I guessed above $2,000. I do know that a massive change is coming in how we value assets and trade with one another. I doubt that dollars or most other fiats will be part of that equation. Gold is only just beginning to reflect that coming reality.

Sat, 11/14/2009 - 12:21 | 130632 lookma
lookma's picture

Rebutting the silly and commonly held strawman arguments for why people own gold may make your ego feel good and help hide the inate fear of the unknown and that which you do not understand, but its quite transparent.

Its quite unlikely any informed mind feels venegance or anger, but rather laughter and pity. 

Sat, 11/14/2009 - 14:04 | 130690 Master Bates
Master Bates's picture

Yeah, well buy gold at 1100 an ounce and we'll see who's pitying who.

Sat, 11/14/2009 - 11:42 | 130616 BRAVO 7
BRAVO 7's picture

THE ISRAELIS COULD DECIDE TO GO IT ALONE WITH THE PERSIANS. YOU COULD WAKE UP ONE MORNING TO $300 A BARREL OIL, $20 A GAL. GASOLINE AND THE STRAITS OF HORMUZ BLOCKADED. GOLD AND SILVER WILL REMAIN AT THE TOP OF THE RELATIVE HILL. YOU WILL BE WALKING AROUND ON LEATHER PERSONNEL CARRIERS,BEGGING IN THE STREETS,MORON. 

ONE CAN NEVER TELL WHAT A DAY MAY BRING

Sat, 11/14/2009 - 14:01 | 130687 Master Bates
Master Bates's picture

Yeah, and aliens could land and blast the White House Independence Day style, but I'm not counting on it.  Nice screaming in all caps, BTW.

Sat, 11/14/2009 - 14:01 | 130686 Master Bates
Master Bates's picture

Yeah, and aliens could land and blast the White House Independence Day style, but I'm not counting on it.  Nice screaming in all caps, BTW.

Sat, 11/14/2009 - 12:43 | 130638 Dantzler
Dantzler's picture

Got Bicycle?

That will get you around, but the embedded transportation cost in the goods you buy is what will get you.

Sat, 11/14/2009 - 10:58 | 130604 Cow
Cow's picture

"GLENN BECK says to buy gold.  That guy's a fuggin moron."

2nd or 3rd most listened to broadcaster in the USA.  I guess all 2-3mm people/day are morons, too?  But not you, of course.

Sat, 11/14/2009 - 13:59 | 130685 Master Bates
Master Bates's picture

Yes, along with the 20 million people per day that listen to Rush Limbaugh, all five people that listen to Air America, and anybody else that pretends to be an "independent voice of reason" while engaging in excessive partisan rhetoric based on loose associations and weak facts.

I guess that you're a Beck fan, eh?  Sorry to hurt your feelings.

Sat, 11/14/2009 - 17:35 | 130804 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Here's an idea Mr Bates, let's stick to economics here and you keep your little political diatribes to yourself

Sat, 11/14/2009 - 12:08 | 130626 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

"I guess all 2-3mm people/day are morons, too?"

Yes, and there are way more where those morons came from.

Sat, 11/14/2009 - 10:09 | 130586 Hansel
Hansel's picture

Bates,

Are your mom, dad, siblings, relatives, friends and acquaintances buying gold?  Are they buying it in a 401k or IRA month in and month out?  Do you think the Argentinians and Russians used the same logic with respect to their currencies never losing value?

Sat, 11/14/2009 - 09:36 | 130572 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Sorry, I got to be the one to slam you....

"Even at the current rates of inflation, it's not like the dollar will lose half of its value in six months."

Try in one day, if there is a 1 day dollar devaluation, or if the CB's lose control of their precious COMEX racket, or the Chinese decide they dont like having Tungsten delivered instead of Gold or...

Should I go on, you self deluded Paper Ponzi Zombie?

Sat, 11/14/2009 - 08:49 | 130557 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Actually, you're quite wrong. Nobody gives a rats arse what you think, and there is a funny vid circulating where a guy can't sell a 1 oz Maple for $50 to genuises like you.
I voted over, but certainly not because of "inflation". The Dudley post with the reference to Exter's pyramid is everything. Add to that the possibility that Kirby might be right about the tungsten salting of LGD bars in HK, and the wheels could come off quite suddenly - in most unpredictable ways.
http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/kirby/2009/1112.html

Sat, 11/14/2009 - 07:28 | 130536 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

But if you actually listen to beck for a few years you wouldkknow that he called most of this crap (or was at least a mouthpiece for folks calling all of this crap)

gold, dollar, fed...etc...

His motto is don't trust anyone...he would fit in this looney bin just fine....

Perpetual-runner-up

Sat, 11/14/2009 - 02:30 | 130489 SRV - ES339
SRV - ES339's picture

Couldn't agree "more_on" Mr. Beck, but I suggest you look at gold in non USDs over the last month.

Sat, 11/14/2009 - 10:38 | 130599 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Both you guys are not only THE real morons, but unthinking moron "bots" as as well. Beck is a Saint and National Treasure, boldly fingering the mysogyny and corruption of the collectivists, exactly like this website.

Sat, 11/14/2009 - 15:40 | 130744 Guy Fawkes
Guy Fawkes's picture

why are you here? Shouldn't you be trolling RedState?

Sat, 11/14/2009 - 02:29 | 130466 Fibozachi
Fibozachi's picture

To be truly Boolean: while employing $2K for one end of an anticipated golden barbell ya gotta complete the logical string by throwing up a $666 if not a $500 on the other side.

That way we can effectively gauge just how pronounced the skew between each competing string will be after at least a few thousand votes on each end.  Eat your heart out Frank Luntz.

Sat, 11/14/2009 - 01:17 | 130463 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

I say Gold will hold on and march to 2000 in 6 weeks or so. It depends on everything else continuing to be "better than expected."

Mining companies are extracting less gold per ore. In fact I think some mining companies are getting out. There is only so much gold to go around and all want it.

Silver is going to take off and run.

I dont have a position in anything. Just paying debts as fast as possible so that when the full horror of cap trade, health reform GPS Road/Kilometer taxes etc (Proposed Euro tax .07 USD = 21 dollars each week for 300 miles for a total of about ... 1000 dollars a year for a newer car.

What goes up must come down. Expecting trouble as holders of paper gold shares evaporate without actual physical gold. Going to be interesting.

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