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Supreme Court Upholds Obamacare ... AS A TAX
In 2009, Obama said that his healthcare reform bill is not a tax:
The Supreme Court just upheld Obamacare ... as a TAX:
A divided Supreme Court largely upheld the Obama administration's health-care law, saying the law's penalty for those who ignore a mandate to carry health insurance counted as a tax and was justified by Congress's constitutional taxing power.
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tax is wax to the bees of statist hive; lets jive if we are blue, lets dive to the mattresses if we are red.
f p: OT--When did the Red::=Repubz and Blue::=Demoz assignment occur? Because, well, as a younger piglet, I remember it to be the other way.
just a thought.
- Ned
I'm gonna say Nancy's red dress was the seed ;-)
Everything is about appearances, color & fashion with "them"...I for one, care about substance.
The implications for future federal power grabbing are astonishing. What other things can the feds mandate and consider it a tax? That word's meaning just got expanded.
I agree, everyone just keeps blabbing about the decision...But, what does this decision allow the fucks in the house and senate to do with future legislation? This is what needs to be discussed.
It allows them to control you via the pocketbook. This law was upheld based on the 16th amendment. According to that amendment, Congress can levy any tax it wants. If it wants America to slim down institute a fat tax on everyone who is overweight. Not fat? No need to pay the tax. Guns can cause injuries. Want a gun? Pay a gun tax. Don't support the mainstream media? Pay a free press tax. The 16th amendment acknowledges no restrictions on Congress' ability to tax. SCOTUS just gave republicans and democrats a blank check. Many are betting they won't cash it. I am not so sure.
We really should just repeal the 16th.
Agreed. Although the 16th was never legally ratified in the first place. Lots of information regarding this out there for those who care to look. If interested, you can start here:
http://www.thelawthatneverwas.com/defects.aspx
It is so obvious that it boggles the mind. Even if you didn't have access to the information that's out there regarding the 16th and the 'income tax', imagine the mental gymnastics necessary to honestly believe the following:
a) 66% of both houses of Congress proposed the ability to tax everything and anything including income
b) 66% of the states had to then ratify the proposal only AFTER
c) 75% of each state's individual legislature voted to ratify such an atrocity
So, we're expected to believe that 75% of the Virginia (for example) state legislature voted FOR the following:
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several states, and without regard to any census or enumeration.
Essentially, we're required to believe the majority of the country voted, in 1913, to give Congress the power to steal from you at will.
Sure they did.
I guess, it seems like this was tied to income tax.
Spent awhile trying to get this tortured logic: http://www.volokh.com/2012/06/28/the-mandate-survives-because-its-not-really-a-mandate/ Who wants to make a bet that the minor penalties and non-criminal punishments quickly become steeper penalties and stiff criminal punishments. just crazy reasoning that it isn't a mandate when it will quickly become one.
This is a clear line-in-the-sand on which we can all easily take a stand.
JUST REFUSE TO PAY THIS UNCONSTITUTIONAL MANDATE! YOU! YOURSELF!
I know that I will NEVER submit to this statist extortion.
Who is with me?
I'm with you, akak.
What, are you going to close all your bank and other financial accounts? They know where your money is, they know where your home is, and they have created the apparatus to take both if you refuse to play their game.
Then they'll take it. They've already taken a lot without my consent- why would this time be any different?
Here's the rub, though- to comply with Obamacare, I would have to either stop eating entirely or lose my home. That's the thing these fucks don't seem to understand about math- it doesn't care what you, I or anyone "feels." There is simply no situation where compliance is an option- and I say that as a white, middle-class(ish) employed professional.
Before I watch my children starve or freeze in front of me, I will start putting bullets in every politician, law enforcement officer, and obese welfare recipient I can find. Sure, I'll die for doing that- but I'll be no more dead than I would be if I tried to follow the "plan" they upheld today. Lack of options makes stupid shit like that not only possible, but attractive. From now on, I am taking the moral stance that my government has declared open war on myself and my family, and any action I take from here on out is self-defense.
With Ya!!!
;)
I am.
THe only thing to do now is to vote Republican and hope this piece of shit gets voted out of office and the reps can repeal.
And, I would like to remind all - this is what we get for continuuing to vote for those fucking northeast ivy league progressive elitist fucks. This is the two bushes, clinton and obama. Our country has become so fucked during this time.
As a matter of fact, isn't that the same group of fucks that started the civil war?
And all you obama-supporting fucks - the LARGEST tax increase in history.
Romney will never repeal it, he will amend it and make it even more lopsided
Fortunately, its not up to Romney. The congress will repeal it-that's where laws are passsed and negated. In fact, congress already passed a complete repeal of Obamacare earlier this year which was tied up in the Dem controlled senate. So, the key is the senate-which will be controlled by the the conservatives in Nov. Romney doesn't have to do anything other than not veto the repeal-its the path of least resistence and is likely what will happen. Then, when the Ryan budget is passed (as it already was by this congress and tied up in the Senate), medicaid will become a block grant to the states instead of an entitlement, and ditto for medicare. You can only count on Romney on doing what's good for Romney.
Congress won;t repeal this. Why do you think the House voted for repeal? Because they KNEW it wouldn't get through the Senate. Safe bet there; "I voted for repeal!" No you didn't, you lying ass-fuck, that vote was as binding as voting for national upside down grandmother day.
Congress will never repeal this thing. I'm just waiting to see the ponzi-nomics of this cluster fuck from hell. Whatever sort of bloated, inefficient, poison pushing worthless excuse for a shit pile of a medical delivery system we have now is only going to get worse. This is all going to end, and quickly, in a motherfucking chip, right in your fucking hand. Mark my words bitchez.
Except that he will tell you he is restructuring it to run more effectively and efficiently.
You are right. He said himself that he will keep the "good" provisions. How will he pay for them? The mandate - uh - tax is the only way.
Exactly. He'll make sure HIS corporations get paid.
Obamacare ... based on Romney care ... both parties serve the same masters.
"Obamacare ... based on Romney care"
The only obvious difference being on a national scale vs a state scale.
If a majority of people in a state (any state)...Mass. in your example...want nanny statism involved, they certainly have that right...this however was at the national level, they overreached, became tyrants and will pay the price.
Over half the states sued all the way to SCOTUS...their beliefs didn't change with this ad hoc drivel.
Reminds me of the Star Trek episode where Frank Gorshen plays the two dudes who are at war with each other because they are different (one is black on one half and white on the other half while the other is white on one half and black on the other).
There are differences between the two parties, but essentially only on the road each would prefer to take to arrive at the same destination.
just won a $1000 bet on this decision. now i have another $1000 on obama winning re-election. i also have a side bet that if romney wins he wont repeal obamacare....this shit is so easy. what ever is the worst for the middleclass will happen. LOL
Absolutely.
Roberts voted to reinforce the gubamint-bidness financial relationship ensuring that them 30mm folk pays their health insurance premiums.
Just more of the same corporations are people and can spend unlimited monies on political favors.
Justice Roberts is a tool of big bidness monies.
The 4 conservatives voted the law.
The 4 liberals, their feelings.
BS. If it had been 9 "conservatives" magically and shockingly 5 would have voted their feelings. It is all BS. Wake up.
Yea romney will repeal it by changeing a couple words to make it the same with a larger payout for insurance co's
Aren't taxes supposed to be equal and representative 'no taxation without representation' and all .. ? so how can a tax be this selective in punishing people for doing/not doing something? under the constitution a tax cannot be a punishment! Supreme Court(of faking what?)
The constitution? What the hell does that dead peice of paper have to do with today's decision? Red and blue have both trampled it beyond repair. The constitution has no more meaning in this country than 'rule of law', liberty, and 'no taxation with representation'.
I'd leave, but there's really no escape. The boot is getting ready to stomp on the face...forever.
Just wait, next year's stimulus will be a tax rebait for the insurance penalty for the low income. This will effectively mean free health care.
Careful what you wish for. They could convert it to a tax on everyone, regardless of if there is insurance or not.
Azannoth: you Sir, have hit the nub of this issue.
Nothing equal, nothing representative, no representatives in sight. And now, a precedent (I came through the door and Mrs_Meat said to me: "Doesn't this mean that they can tax anything???")
Dang, but then again, we can watch the taxed enough already? crowd get rather effective. Note, not excited (well, after a bit, I'd imagine) but rather, in the near term "focused".
Local pundit/radio guy reporting that a money bomb event is falling in on the Romney campaign. Say what we all might, but Mitt ain't no empty suit. Actually, the "he exported jobs" slur is said another way as: "the company was a zombie, so the viable parts here were kept and the support infrastructure was sent over there."
- Ned
{and charitably, I'm hoping that Roberts is on the point of a purely legal decision. I'm off to the web to find Hugh Hewitt, who is, in my view, the most incisive talk show host around. He'll be on fire tonight, I betcha'}
{{any opinions that all y'all think trump Hewitt? I'd like to learn--that'sa why I'ma here}}
As much as I hate to say it, I think Roberts...no I won't say it ;-)
This will be decided (for good) in another arena, there are "mays" & "coulds" etc. littered throughout the ruling as if trying to read minds.
"Members of this Court are vested with the authority to interpret the law; we possess neither the expertise northe prerogative to make policy judgments. Those decisionsare entrusted to our Nation’s elected leaders, who can bethrown out of office if the people disagree with them. It is not our job to protect the people from the consequences of their political choices."
So it shall be, starting with Senator Nelson here.
Which Sen Nelson? If in Florida do not vot efor that prick Connie MAck in the primaries. He is a mega RINO.
Mack isn't my first choice either.
But the object now (unless you're advocating armed revolution) is to punish anyone who had a hand in passing the largest middle class tax increase in American history.
No. 1. The Individual Mandate Excise Tax. Starting in 2014, anyone not buying “qualifying” health insurance must pay an income tax surtax. It goes up each year until 2016 and beyond when a couple would pay a tax of the higher or $1,360 or 2.5% of adjusted gross income.
No. 2. The Over-The-Counter Drugs Trap. Since Jan. 1, 2011, employees with health savings accounts, flexible spending accounts or health reimbursement accounts have no longer been able to use pre-tax funds stashed in these accounts to buy over-the-counter medicines for allergy relief and the like without a doctor’s prescription (there’s an exception for insulin).
No. 3. The Healthcare Flexible Spending Account Cap. Starting Jan. 1, 2013, employees will face a $2,500 cap on the amount of pre-tax salary deferrals they can make into a healthcare flexible spending account. There is no cap under current law. In light of the new cap, employee benefits groups are lobbying for Congress to modify the use-it-or-lose-it rule that means employees forfeit unused funds in their accounts at the end of the plan year.
No. 4. The Medical Itemized Deduction Hurdle. Starting Jan. 1, 2013, taxpayers who face high medical expenses will only be allowed a deduction for expenses to the extent they exceed 10% of adjusted gross income, up from 7.5% now. Taxpayers 65 and older can still use the old 7.5% threshold through 2016. For how to score the medical expense deduction before 2013, click here.
No. 5. The Health Savings Account Withdrawal Penalty. Since Jan. 1, 2011, taxpayers who withdraw money from health savings accounts for non-medical expenses before age 65 face a 20% penalty, up from 10% before.
No. 6. The Indoor Tanning Services Tax. Since July 1, 2010, folks using indoor tanning salons face a new 10% excise tax. This one hasn’t been bringing in as much revenue as anticipated.
No. 7. The Cadillac Health Insurance Plan Tax. Starting in 2018, there will be a new 40% excise tax on taxpayers who are covered by comprehensive health insurance plans.
I know, I know, big shock, Pelosi, Obama & Reid passed new taxes on the middle class while mouthing that they never would...lol.
and No. 6 is a racist tax!!!
;-)
Ummm... because it's really a criminal cartel?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/george-will-supreme-court-gives-conservatives-a-consolation-prize/2012/06/28/gJQAWyhY9V_print.html
Maybe we over looked this?
Taxation with representation ain't all it's cracked up to be either.
If Thomas Paine thought that taxation without representation was bad, he needs to come back today to see how bad it is with representation!
And look at all the taxes! It is INSANE!
Good luck to America's middle class as they all kick in.
http://confoundedinterest.wordpress.com/2012/06/28/imf-to-discuss-greece-re-negotiating-debt-france-and-us-should-pay-close-attention-particularly-after-supreme-court-upholds-obamacare/
i took note of the 'Constitutinal as a tax' angle not argued by attorneys but pronounced by roberts. so is there legal recourse by challenging the tax angle before the rubber stamp, er supreme court and tying it all up again for a year or so?
By their own rule a tax can not be ruled on until in place. Once ACA was found to be a tax the case was moot.
The tax/fine is constitutional, but is the mandate?
Their ruling stated that it wasn't a mandate - it is a tax. Due to the nature of this tax it is a tax on inactivity so it cannot be described as an excise tax or grouped under the general taxation clause. It is a direct tax that gives Congress the ability to manipulate the populace via taxes.
My thoughts...its the most non-sensical law ruling I've ever seen.
The individual mandate was struck down (no matter how the MSM wants to spin it) with the majority of the court saying there is NOWHERE in the commerce clause that gives Congress the authority to force anyone to engage in commerce.
So far so good, a solid victory for liberty and individual freedom.
Then it turned around on a dime and said (exactly as GW is saying) that the entire bill amounts to a federal tax levied by Congress. Which cannot be in the real world as the only federal tax (really a penalty/fine as the judgement says) is on those who do not engage in commerce at all...ie not buy health insurance.
At the end of it...(for now) what we have is a "federal tax" levied on those who never wanted health insurance in the first place.
The young and/or healthy.
They also probably never entertained the idea of what fascism really is...as they were never taught what a government marriage with a faceless corporation is.
Now they know its face (its always smiling up until the time they slip the dagger between your ribs) because they now can see it & soon they will feel its raw unforgiving power with 16,000 new IRS agents to enforce it.
Forward youngun's, you've been had...Yes We Con...lol.
A lot of people voted for this in 2008. A few of them post here.