This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

David Frum Hearts the Fed, Hates Mises

CrownThomas's picture




 

Via Reboil Room

------------------------

Recently David Frum threw a hit piece up on the Daily Beast,
questioning how conservatives could possibly be stupid enough to
gravitate toward this "so-called Austrian" Ludwig von Mises. Between
Frum & a no-name from Bloomberg, they attempt to make the case that
Austrians aren't smart enough to comment on economics since they are
more philosophical and not empirical.

As a matter of fact, the no-name said Austrian Economics is "philosophy dressed up as economics". So clever.


This wouldn't be nearly as comical if it weren't for the fact that Frum is a distant cousin of none other than Paul Krugman.  Oh, and he graduated from Yale & Harvard of course.

Austrian (gasp) Thomas Woods has posted a nice response to this that we wanted to share with you.

 

- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Wed, 07/11/2012 - 12:13 | 2606357 caconhma
caconhma's picture

Two Jewish con-artists are giving in a selves promotion show and  the stupid rest are taking it seriously. WOW!

Wed, 07/11/2012 - 11:37 | 2606201 Marty Rothbard
Marty Rothbard's picture

If Frum had a brain in his head, he'd keep his stupid mouth shut.  Any publicity for VonMises is good, as long as they spell his name correctly.  How many people will wonder what this Austrian school is, and have their eyes opened?  Keep it up moron, dig your own grave.

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 10:17 | 3082363 TrulyStupid
TrulyStupid's picture

Frum is an apologist for the original neo-con gang. As a propagandist  for the Bush administration he coined the term "Axis of Evil"  to help sell the invasion and occupation of Iraq. His loyalty is to Zionism and has no other ethical prinicple than to further these interests. Evry comment or "opinion" of his must be taken in context of furthering these Zionist interests. He will back inflationist policies as long as Israel benefits from American largesse. I suspect his antipathy to Austrian economics lies in the realization that Austrians would cut off the money spigot.

He was largely discredited after the failed Iraqi mission, but the public memory being rather short these days is successfully reinventing himself as a "thoughtful" conservative. The fact that he gets air time at all in the MSM is a tribute to its corruption.

 

Wed, 07/11/2012 - 11:11 | 2606099 Winston Smith 2009
Winston Smith 2009's picture

Frum's an idiot just like most of the pontificating stuffed shirts seen and unfortunately heard in the MSM.  Here are similar Followers of Frum, a cargo cult, an amazing example of human stupidity in action:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Frum

 

Wed, 07/11/2012 - 10:48 | 2605990 I_Am_
I_Am_'s picture

WTF is a FRUM............

 

Wed, 07/11/2012 - 11:22 | 2606142 gaoptimize
gaoptimize's picture

Not believing in supply side / savings / investment / production: A cargo cultists, including John.

Wed, 07/11/2012 - 10:51 | 2605976 Miles Kendig
Miles Kendig's picture

Frum and Krugman remind me of other cousins in the deficits don't matter ghetto, Cheney and Obama among them.

Waiting on Krugman to offer his NYT column,  Conscience of  a Liberal to Cheney ('s ghost writer) in appreciation for all he's done to advance the cause.

Wed, 07/11/2012 - 10:49 | 2605960 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

"(David) Frum is a distant cousin of none other than Paul Krugman."

You mean Economists are all cousin-cousin??

I always thought Krugman reminded me of one of those gene recessive hillbillies in Deliverance...

Wed, 07/11/2012 - 10:41 | 2605951 hivekiller
hivekiller's picture

All those Jews. My my. One rabbi debating the other and nobody the wiser that it's just a conversation among the chosen.

Wed, 07/11/2012 - 10:18 | 2605772 PulpCutter
PulpCutter's picture

The prediction record of Krugman and the 'saltwater' school of econmics is quite good - even quantitative.

Conversely, "Austrians" have been predicting that an inflationary meltup "in 6 to 18 months" for the past several years.  WHERE'S THE INFLATION?  Austrians can't even get the correct direction, to say nothing of quantitative predictions. 

Frum is the latest in a long line of conservative 'thinkers' to wake up and smell the coffee. Like Paul on the Damascus road, sometimes the truth just smacks you between the eyes, despite whatever brainwashing you may have received before.

Thomas sets up a straw man in saying "most conservatives don't even know who von Mises is".  Correct enough, but is he implying that it's surprising that TeaBaggers who blindly follow austerity economics have no idea of the theoretical underpinnings?  LOL.  Same with Saddam ordering 9/11, Iraq still having WMDs after a decade of sanctions and inspections, America being a 'high-tax' country, ACA being more expensive than the existing system, etc..  Thomas should really consider writing for the National Enquirer.

 Fact: Saltwater/Krugman predictions have been dead-on.  See below.  Don't bother assuming it's a "liberal" study, because they find plenty of accurate conservatives, and plenty of inaccurate (and big-name) liberals.  Krugman was the most accurate predictor in their study.  So, just fashion your anti-Krugman attitude into a suppository, Thomas: Krugman is correct and you are wrong.

Data: http://www.hamilton.edu/documents/Analysis-of-Forcast-Accuracy-in-the-Political-Media.pdf

Even if you don't agree with his poltics, you should consider reading Krugman's daily posts - he is not an idiot.

Wed, 07/11/2012 - 10:24 | 2605853 Winston of Oceania
Winston of Oceania's picture

If you don't know what you speak of then by all means be silent. Austrians disagree regarding inflation and deflation.  BTW Krugman is a deceitful liar at best, he knows what table the scraps are thrown from.

Wed, 07/11/2012 - 10:29 | 2605861 PulpCutter
PulpCutter's picture

Able to post even the vaguest shred of evidence to back your position?

If no, then you truly ARE an Austrian, and make Frum's case for him:

 

There are two big reasons today's right loves the Austrians. One is that Austrian economists reject empirical analysis, and instead believe that you can reach conclusions about correct economic policies from a priori principles. It's philosophy dressed up as economics; with the Austrians, there is never any risk that real-world events will interfere with your ideology.

And that is how so many on the right have pulled off the remarkable feat of going through the 2008 crisis and its aftermath without revisiting any of their policy views. ...

But if you have Mises at your side, you "know" that empirical findings have no bearing on what policy should be. Leaning on Austrian thinkers is a great way to avoid further thinking.

 

Wed, 07/11/2012 - 10:51 | 2606000 Nothing To See Here
Nothing To See Here's picture

What is Krugman's explanation again for having encouraged Greenspan to spur a housing bubble to replace the NASDAQ bubble back in 2001-2002?

Wed, 07/11/2012 - 10:55 | 2606020 PulpCutter
PulpCutter's picture

Actually, Krugman was criticizing Greenspan and lax regulation of the banks when Bush and the conservative right were still licking Greenie's balls.  But don't let reality get in the way of your philosophy.

Wed, 07/11/2012 - 11:13 | 2606073 Miles Kendig
Miles Kendig's picture

And cheered when Clinton was doing the same thing with respect to OTC derivatives, Glass-Stegal and more.

Get real

Today's self described conservatives are neo-liberals bent on war as stimulus, endless debt enslavement and holding society powerless over making decisions when the state can do that for them to the point of deciding who and how to love.

Nothing at all conservative, or liberal about that crew of malcontent General Buck Turgensen's, on both sides of the so called two party isle

Wed, 07/11/2012 - 09:29 | 2605621 Snakeeyes
Snakeeyes's picture

Frum, the government has gone nuts manilpulating markets with Fed and Fiscal policies, straight out of Hicks-Hansen. Austrians would have advocated little of this.

Take the mortgage report today. Despite the manipulations of rates, they still can't fire up the housing market. 

http://confoundedinterest.wordpress.com/2012/07/11/mortgage-purchase-applications-rise-a-bit-refi-applications-fall-again-hud-secretary-donovan-goes-live/

Wed, 07/11/2012 - 09:08 | 2605545 falak pema
falak pema's picture

Politicians practice reality, they even define it by their policies.

Economists live in a faulty ivory tower, tinkering with reality on an 'after the facts' basis from their perch high above the ground. The ones laud the other and ostensibly inspire their policies using their inputs and advice, all the while they act in their own interests, sometimes travestising, in their own hubris and dire actions, the theory that their philsophical mentors preach. Thats reality.

Is there room for debate? Obviously, as economics is a voodou science; and politics, voodou power play! 

What does a voodou king say to his voodou wise man? 

"Woud you sell me your voodou-to-do for me to do what I want with it? Even to the point I make it toutou-fumanchu- voodou sleight of hand?"

I've never known a magician to refuse anything his king demands. Why should that change?

Its so easy to turncoat and please the guy who runs the boat.

Rather than being marooned on an island all on your own or being thrown to the crocodiles. Even Croco Dundee preferred his blond dame to wrestling with the Crocs! 

Wed, 07/11/2012 - 09:06 | 2605534 Confundido
Confundido's picture

Frum works for Mossad. And somehow, Mossad is not interested in Austrian economics, likely because it leads to Ron Paul and its neutral stand with Israel. I think they're wrong and hope they are not, because I am myself interested in the survival of Israel, although I am convinced the whole country is the product of an intellectual mistake...

Wed, 07/11/2012 - 08:50 | 2605481 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Well everyone is a 'distant cousin' of everyone else if you go back far enough. 

Wed, 07/11/2012 - 08:38 | 2605433 Squid Vicious
Squid Vicious's picture

Isn't he the "axis of evil" little zionist traitor? scratch that, he's not even American...

Wed, 07/11/2012 - 08:32 | 2605413 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

Austrian economics is, at worst, an attempt to study how an economy actually works.  It fully explains the folly of today's economic tinkering.  It is real economics.

Whatever they call economics today is merely an attempt to achieve short term political goals.  It has no concept of the future.  It has no concept that no matter how a government interferes, it will always get the exact opposite effect of what was intended beyond the short term.  Everything is a cycle and a bell curve.  Low rates are buillish until they are bearish.  Low gold prices are good for your currency until they are bad for your currency.  Government intervention in commodities keep prices down until the the scarcity they induce through producer decimation causes prices to skyrocket. 

Wed, 07/11/2012 - 09:34 | 2605637 Nothing To See Here
Nothing To See Here's picture

Kudos.

David Frum is actually a worst kind of garbage than Krugman could ever be. Krugman is not speaking to liberty-minded people, he speaks to a different audience. On the other hand, this Bush spokesman is deploying his best efforts to fool liberty-minded people into believing that debt, central planning and mathematical-modelling of the economy are good things. He hates Austrians because they challenge and refute his assumptions about the role of big, "conservative" government.

He blames Austrians for not being empiricists and yet, Frum is blind to empirical evidence. Where are we now after decades of easy money by the Fed? The likes of Frum were still bullish in 2007 whereas Austrians had been calling for a collapse for years. Yet, Frum remains convinced that his models of the economy are valid.

Austrians are interested in what actually happens in society, and this leads them to take the complexity of human action into account. But as Ricardo Caballero said, "macroeconomics as a field of study has been transformed over the decades from a verbal discussion of the real world to a discussion based on quantitative analysis of an alternate world".

And thus Frum, just like Krugman and their likes, want to impose upon the real world the way they think their alternate world should work.

Wed, 07/11/2012 - 09:54 | 2605734 Jay Gould Esq.
Jay Gould Esq.'s picture

Fine commentary, Quinvarius, and an equally satisfying response, from Nothing To See Here.

I second the aforementioned remarks in their entirety.

Wed, 07/11/2012 - 08:28 | 2605406 WALLST8MY8BALL
WALLST8MY8BALL's picture

ManBernCousin!

Wed, 07/11/2012 - 08:19 | 2605380 mendolover
mendolover's picture

Krugman on CNBS @ 8:30a.

Wed, 07/11/2012 - 07:59 | 2605329 BeetleBailey
BeetleBailey's picture

David Frum is a douchebag, has been a douchebag, and always will be one.

He needs to be kicked in his macademia-sized nuts over and over again, until he needs medical attention - then not receive it.

Wed, 07/11/2012 - 10:52 | 2606006 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

"macademia-sized nuts"

Mosquito Balls... There, fixed it for you...

Wed, 07/11/2012 - 10:39 | 2605937 Abrick
Abrick's picture

When that day comes I'm sure he will abandon his conservative principles and take advantage of the Canadian Healthcare System.

Wed, 07/11/2012 - 01:43 | 2605024 JOYFUL
JOYFUL's picture

 

What gives here? Why suddenly does it matter what this Bush era holdover thinks about anything? And if yu insist on mentioning him, why not just get to the "heart" of the matter and disclose that Frum is a Kanadian-born Khazarian of the most dangerous kind =

a messenger boy for the bnaibrith agenda which seeks to impose the talmudist tyranny of the neo-trots onto the peeples of the West...a kreature of the Monster from Montreal, a golem of the Bronfman Klan...a drone-ing missile guided into the heartland of the fallen western lands to further delude peeple into wasting their time with factional politics at the time they need to be focussed on saving themselves from the forthcoming controlled demolition.

The "FED" is a kollection of kartel banks with a mission of kriminally plundering the pocketbooks of Euromerikans, and Frum is employed for PR work on their behalf. Nothin else to say about the loser....unless yu are a gatekeeper of the kontrolled opposition.

We must be finally close to the end of this Kabuki theatre if they have to dredge this Kosher Klown up!

Wed, 07/11/2012 - 11:34 | 2606191 geno-econ
geno-econ's picture

You can add Richard Pearle to the list of foriegn lobbyists who  wormed himself into our policy making apparatus of weak politicians.  We are still paying the price of useless cold and hot wars which increased our deficit financing enormously.  But that is the subject of another Kabuki theater act

Wed, 07/11/2012 - 09:27 | 2605608 ghenny
ghenny's picture

I love how all you guys either bash Bush or remain silent about him.  The fact is you were all voting for him and against Gore back in 2000 and voted for him again in 2004 against Kerry.  I did not hear "Austrian" screams from you all when he was running up huge debts and cutting taxes on the wealthy to fund two wars of choice and a senior drug benefit that gave the Pharmaceutical companies and the Defense contractors - let alone the energy companies - gigantic windfalls.  So don't give me all this baloney about a Bush team holdover.  YOu turkeys loved them in the day as they were borrowing and tax cutting us down the River.

Wed, 07/11/2012 - 09:49 | 2605713 Ricky Bobby
Ricky Bobby's picture

ghenny

It's Bush's fault, Clinton's fault, Bush's fault, Reagan's fault, Carter's fault, Nixon's fault... Blah Blah Blah.

Do you see a pattern here? I thought not! just get back to the propaganda matrix and STFU.

 

Wed, 07/11/2012 - 12:26 | 2606428 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

Let's cut to the chase ... It's America's fault, and Barack Hussein Obama is here to make us all pay for our past sins. Mitt Romney, should he be elected, will find a kinder, gentler, more efficient way to make us pay. Don't you just love having such choice?

Wed, 07/11/2012 - 09:39 | 2605661 i-dog
i-dog's picture

 

"you were all voting for [Bush] in 2000"

Do you have evidence for this weird assertion that a board full of [deluded] Ron Paul fanatics voted for Bush!?!

I've got news for you, fool ... Some of us have never voted. So we won't be held responsible for the stupid choices that you, and the other team's pom-pom wavers, make.

It's time for real solutions -- like getting rid of corrupt governments -- not childish red-blue team name-calling.

Wed, 07/11/2012 - 11:29 | 2606173 ATM
ATM's picture

I've voted since the 1980 election and only once for a Republican (Reagan) and never for any Democrat.

Wed, 07/11/2012 - 08:17 | 2605377 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

So Frum is an errand boy sent by a grocery clerk to collect a bill.

Wed, 07/11/2012 - 11:30 | 2606175 Tippoo Sultan
Tippoo Sultan's picture

Perfect, colonel.

+1

Wed, 07/11/2012 - 01:51 | 2605043 Vic Vinegar
Vic Vinegar's picture

We must be finally close to the end of this Kabuki theatre if they have to dredge this Kosher Klown up!

Ah, you seem to be a bit more idealistic and naive than me spacemonkey. 

But perhaps I am wrong - please explain if this the case.  Thanks in advance.

Wed, 07/11/2012 - 09:30 | 2605628 i-dog
i-dog's picture

 

"a bit more idealistic and naive than me"

He appears [to me] to be more accurate and focussed than a sniper scope!!

So, what is your position on Monsigneur Frum? Exactly what "idealism" is our Joyful displaying? What can your lack of naïveté enlighten us with?

Or are you just going to recline with another Katy Perry video and watch in silent amusement as this all unfolds?

Curious minds want to know.....

Wed, 07/11/2012 - 00:21 | 2604884 Vic Vinegar
Vic Vinegar's picture

Somehow I doubt that a video entitled "Neoconservative David Frum Hearts the Fed" is going to challenge the latest Katy Perry video in terms of Youtube hits.

Why do you think that is, spacemonkeys?  Do 'the sheeple' 'not get it' or do they get it more than you would like to believe?  None of us have power, but one of the two videos I refrerenced are fun. 

Just asking.

Wed, 07/11/2012 - 08:10 | 2605351 Doubleguns
Doubleguns's picture

Do 'the sheeple' 'not get it' or do they get it more than you would like to believe?

 

On ZH site?  If you have to ask.....well....I leave it there.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!