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Take Our Guns? Over our Dead Bodies!
Take Our Guns? Over our Dead Bodies!
Well, maybe.
Or the dead bodies of our children and friends.
I know, I know, Second Amendment and all that but get real; you will never be better armed than your government and you are going to lose a shootout with them no matter what. This isn’t 1776. Ruby Ridge, Waco and Occupy taught us that.
I know, guns don’t kill people, people kill people. Not to put too fine a point on it, but technically, it’s the bullets.
And, that would seem to me to be at least one place we could start to find some compromise between no guns and vast unlimited arsenals of nothing more than implements of death. Ammunition could be made far less deadly and destructive, and who needs thousands of rounds?
Hunters, real sportsmen, go into the field with single shot weapons. Being from the middle of nowhere, my parents owned thirteen guns between them, none of which was a handgun. And, only two of them were repeaters; my mother’s custom Browning 16 gauge over and under (2 shots) and an automatic repeating rifle that I never saw come out of its very distinctive leather case.
It was half the length of the long gun cases. It may not have been legal at the time because, even as a kid, I perceived that my parents seemed to regard this particular gun with a great deal more gravitas.
If they take all of our guns away, we won’t need the bullets. So, maybe the two sides could come together and find common ground on the ammunition.
Unfortunately, the discussion involving whether or not guns should be legal is an argument that leads right to where the gun lobby wants it—nowhere.
On the one hand, those with criminal intent won’t care whether guns are legal or not. They’ll just get them from the Department of Justice when they work out the agreement on the money laundering services also conveniently available through a “single point of contact” at the DOJ.
Beyond that, with over 200 million privately owned guns in about 50 million American homes, seizing them would be a monumental task involving lots of domestic bloodshed.
What we do not need right now is a nationwide search of every farmhouse, outhouse, or chicken coop looking for guns to confiscate.
Guns and bullets are only symptoms of a disease, our mental health crisis.
The unrelenting stresses of a failing economy and the sense of outrage being felt as more and more people feel powerless against the oppression are increasing the murder and murder/suicide rates in every community.
Always absent from any discussion about health care are the health care risks posed to innocent people by a system that devotes fewer and fewer resources to mental illness. If it isn’t bleeding it won’t be treated.
The reaction in Aurora in the wake of the theater shootings has been a curious one, an increase in gun sales…presumably to take to the movies.
The people who sell metal detectors must be just drooling having calculated that there are about 39,000 movie theatres in America.
But, it won’t help. Anywhere people gather can provide an opportunity for a nut job to kill a bunch of people. The mall, the marina, the hospital, the amusement park, the day care center are all vulnerable. We don’t need metal detectors, we need mental detectors.
You don’t need a gun to inflict mayhem and misery. Timothy McVey brought down a seven story building killing 178 and injuring hundreds with a U-Haul full of fertilizer.
But, there is a bigger problem. We are a nation steeped in violence. We forcibly took this land and murdered those who stood in our way. I’m not pointing the finger; my family was leading the way.
War is our primary domestic export. Remember when we were “hog butcher for the world”? Today we are the people butcher for the world. At the moment, there are 121 wars being waged around the world, and one way or another, we have got our hand or our arms in all of them.
If we aren’t selling them weapons directly, we are supplying them through some sort of shadowy middleman. That is why there is the occupational title of “Arms Dealer”.
This is how they avoid the brief but embarrassing revelations such as the Justice Department selling guns directly to the Mexican drug cartels. Text your friendly arms dealer and build a layer of plausible deniability. Those wild and crazy, though grossly incompetent, guys over at the Justice Department. What a hoot!
Remember when we went to Iraq looking for weapons of mass destruction? We didn’t find any so we started to sell them some back in 2005. It does make you wonder how many US casualties resulted from weapons we sold them.
Decade after decade we ask our young men and women to sacrifice their lives on behalf of peace and freedom. Or, perhaps more appropriately, the very lucrative military industrial complex that will provide both sides of the conflict with exactly as much expensive military hardware as is necessary to maintain equal strength and ongoing conflict among the foes.
Remember when the goal was to end wars as quickly as possible?
Being ever at war affects a nations psyche. Teenagers have never known a time when we weren’t at war. Warrior becomes a “career choice” for which they train on high tech video games. They are what we made them. Detached, indifferent, conditioned to violence and sometimes lusting for blood. Actual blood, not virtual blood.
We justify drone strikes as necessary and send a message that, yeah, killing is okay, sometimes.
Then it’s only a matter of deciding when it is okay, and when it isn’t. Liquor, testosterone, and mental illness obscure the bounds that normally hold us in check.
With our economy decimated, the troops come home to no jobs and no safety net, and kill their families. How the hell can we be surprised by that?
Our priorities are all screwed up. We have the funds for unlimited warfare but not for universal health care.
Poverty is growing in the US not because of a lack of money. Look how much we could find to give the banks so bankstas had something from which to pay themselves obscene bonuses.
Poverty is growing because of a vast criminal conspiracy.
In the meantime, the global game of Ponzi continues because of our leader’s unwillingness to stop it.
Doing the same thing over and over again and hoping for a different result is the very definition of insanity.
Watch now to see if someone doesn’t step forward with the idea that maybe our problems could be solved if we gave the banks more money.
Things are getting worse, not better. There will be more mass murders and horrific acts of violence, and they will not be fueled by guns but by the untreated mental illness produced by the stress of economic and social collapse.
Where I come from, everybody had guns, lots of guns, but we didn’t shoot each other with them. Obviously, we, and not the guns, are the problem.
Less lethal ammunition and smaller magazines can reduce the scope of gun violence without gun owners losing their rights.
Since both sides have a stake in the outcome, both sides should devote substantial energy and resources advocating for universal healthcare and sufficient funding to effectively treat the small percentage of the population who suffer from this largely treatable yet little understood human frailty.
Further debating the issue of gun ownership prevents us from coming to grips with the real problem and reducing deaths attributed to acts of insane violence.
www.4closureFraud.org
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I would like to read references for your statements if you could provide them please so I can assess them myself
We have the funds for unlimited warfare but not for universal health care.
That is what the gangster banksters want so the debt slaves are too busy killing each other and trying to staying alive to care about the GoldsuckSachioso's devious contrivances
And another thing: I highly doubt the US govt. could prevail in a real fight against its own population. It's too vast a territory with too many armed individuals. The US may be undefeated in crushing governments - but has failed again and again to permanently supress populations. Afganistan and Vietnam are just two data points to consider. Winning the war does not necessarily mean winning all (or any) of the battles.
"I highly doubt the US govt. could prevail in a real fight against its own population"
The people would not be just fighting. They would be fighting heart and soul for their own homes, land, and country.
I am not so sure about that. The lazy dumb fkkks gave away their liberty for TV and movies which the elites use to control them. As long as they have their clicker and free stuff they are worse than sheep. Poor sheep are incapable of fighting back or understanding. They are more admirable than dumb fkks who watch TV and Hollywoods crap to support their overlords with thier viewership.
The US gov't prevailed against its own population in 1865. Its arsenal was not nearly as asymmetrical compared to the people as it is today. The Army had some repeating firearms. So did the civilians.
If the US fought a civil war today and it took on the dimensions of the War Between the States, the USA would lose it's overseas empire almost immediately and permanently. It would be a Pyrrhic victory at best.
I submit that the South was uncomfortable with its moral position. Not to mention that it was a civil war with both sides on offense. Repressing the civilian population of America is a whole different store.
Don't forget that probably a good 50% of the military would immediately go AWOL and beat feet home.
The War Between the States was not a civil war. It was a secession, not that much different from the American Revolution of 1776 where the colonists seceded from England. The English Civil War in Cromwell's time was a civil war. The French "Revolution" of 1789 was a civil war. The Russian October "Revolution" was a civil war.
The South was not uncomfortable with their moral position that stated that it was within their right to secede from the Union when that Union no longer represented them. Most southern soldiers were not slave holders. They fought because they believed that they had the right to "vote with their feet". They believed that this was the Law of the Land:
"Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes".
Made me laugh.
The will to secede came from the fact that Southern states failed to get what they want: expand slavery onto other states.
Slave ownership was in US citizen societies a middle class thing. Many US citizens lived off the slavery induced economy.
Back now to US citizen propaganda/fantasy...
AnAnonymous left this poo-smelling nugget:
If that's what they wanted, they should have merged with China, which has had many periods of slavery, even into the 21st century.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Chinese_slave_scandal
Back now to AnAnonymousistic mental infirmity and rewriting of history.
+100 Well said
That will all depend on our military.
Our military that did not defend our Constitution over the past three and a half years along with the judges, Supreme Court, Joint Cheifs, Congress, CIA, FBI and others?
You have been paying attention.
True, but it is important to note that it is NOT homogeneous, and largely drawn from the parts of the country most hostile to the idea of a powerful central government.
If you look at the sign up rates state by state and the ethnic breakdown of who makes up the actual fighting troops very clear picture emerges.
.
That's why they're being kept on the other side of the globe doing the banksters' dirty work. They don't want them coming back to the US unless/until they're maimed and/or mental basket cases.
That's why they're being kept on the other side of the globe doing the banksters' dirty work. They don't want them coming back to the US unless/until they're maimed and/or mental basket cases.
_________________
How true. US citizen way.
The Afghans, the Iraqis, they are killing US citizens by scores.
Obviously, it does not work this way.
US citizen middle is the king class. They demand the opportunity that go with wars. Therefore, the ruling class looks for easy wars to provide US citizen middle class with so they can want they want.
In US citizenism, the government governs with the consent of the governed. And the consent comes from the middle class.
Mental cases are the result of US citizens getting hooked to the adrenaline push provided by killing a human being, the lawlessness and the empowerment a US citizen soldier feels and looks for.
Back to the US of A, this lack is so dire US citizens snap, sometimes looking for one ultimate rush by killing people around.
Mental cases are the result of Chinese citizenism citizens getting hooked on the opiate rush provided by the Peoples Liberation Opium Parlours.
Back to reality from the intoxification, the lack of opiated highness is so dire Chinese citizenism citizens snap and seek the high flying rush by embracing their insanitation and posting schizophrenicitizenism drivel on the internet.
It won't be long before the men in white coats with butterfly nets come to take AnAnonymous back to his padded cell.
The mighty US military has had a fearsome time subduing Iraq, a country smaller than Texas and with roughly the same population.
OP: Spare me the "all-powerful government" crap.
Edit: this issue has always been a "city" versus "the rest of the country" issue.
It was done in a matter of weeks.
It is hoped that you do not point at US citizens invading Iraqis to install a stable, non lethal society status, right? Because that was not the objectives of US citizens.
US citizens usually come to two things: resources and murders.
Mission accomplished in Iraq.
Chinese citizenism citizens usually come to two things: enslaving others and pooping on the side of the road.
Mission accomplished in China and Tibet.
Yep. If they can take out a warrior like Qaddafi, then they will have no problem with your Bumblefuck County peashooter militia. It doesn't matter how many bazookas and M-16s you have hidden away in your moonshine shack, the government will always have more, whether it be the US, China or even France. Guns are a false sense of security, but still a necessity. I've never owned one, but you know the day they make guns illegal is the day you're gonna need one.
It doesn't matter how many bazookas and M-16s you have hidden away in your moonshine shack, the government will always have more,
____________________
Actually, a US citizen government could have less of those since US citizen armies experience wars where it might be the case.
What matters is what enables the tactical set of US citizen militaries, meaning an overpowering air force/navy.
The "peashooter" is a military weapon like the fairly low-powered AK or M16 type. The high powered personal weaponry is far more common with private citizens- a 7mm Mag or .300WinMag (widely used hunting calibers) will blow right through chest plates. Even the old .30-06 which is probably the most common hunting rifle in the country will go through most of it and might even go through a plate.
Body armor to stop a low velocity AK round is one thing, body armor to stop high powered hunting rifles is a whole different ball of wax. You admit that you dont know alot about weaponry, yet you make many assumptions. Our military has had its hands full fighting guerilla wars in Asia against people with much worse weaponry and much lower marksmanship skill than is common in the US.
How many hunters in the United States? This means hunting rifles too. I remember seeing the numbers just for PA and was shocked. It may have been NRA or Gun Owners of America.
http://www.huntingpa.com/Deer%20stats.html
LEADING FIREARM STATES
(Licensed Resident Gun Hunters)
Pennsylvania 1,000,000
Michigan 675,000
Wisconsin 656,164
New York 643,534
Texas 570,000
This is 1 million just in PA. I assume "licensed" means hunting licenses. Some bow hunters too but they would be even scariers guys for the TSA goons & gropers to deal with. I wonder how many of these licensed hunters voted for Hope & Change? Not many.
Hell, for that matter, a lever-action .45-70 at close range flinging a 400 grain lead slug might not actually pierce body armor, but pushing the armor through and out the other side of your target would probably be an interesting effect.
Whatever you say sheep. A couple of well connected and determined men with guns could easily change a government. Maybe not the US government, but most small nation states for sure.
Lost Wages, you need to move to Bumblefuck county, become a gun owner and learn.
20 People in a tac bay is a awesome amount of firepower.
It's not so much what you have that matters, but how well you can use it. There are a hell of a lot of veterans with recent urban combat experience among the civilian population and a lot of older vets that have been shat on. There may in fact be a lot of fodder in the civilian population, but there is a significant enough experience in the mix to be very combat effective using the very same type of warfare the lumbering US military (and former Soviet Union) have failed miserably fighting against.
Even the dimmest "Bumblefuck County peashooter militia" knows you can't win a stand-up fight with a modern military.
Another full-on civil war in the US involving the military and civilian combatants would most likely surpass the first one in virtually every regard. Attempts to disarm the civilian population is probably one of the quickest ways to start it.
You refer to us as "combatants"
I refer to us as "we the people"
You refer to us as "Dim" and "Bumblefuck"
I refer to us as being "Prepared to do our duty"
You say we "can't win"
I say...
"BRING IT ON MOTHERFUCKER"
You should really work on comment thread continuity and reading comprehension.
"Conceptual Continuity"
You start if you are so sure of winning.
Made me laugh.
US citizen "if I am provoked, I am going to kill all of you"
Since when US citizens wait for being provoked when they know they can have a fun and easy military victory?
Exposing oneself through bravado... US citizen impotency against the monster they have created...
AnAnonymous
Say there Mr. Smartypants, isn't China the country that had its ass kicked by little Japan and then had to have the Americans save its sorry little ass ??
In defense of the Chinese during WWII, it was exceedingly difficult for them to recognize the Japanese as invaders, as of course both they and the Chinese all look the same:
http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/9043/1217679435308.jpg
PS: Maybe if they would open their eyes and stop squinting, they would be a bit more individually recognizable.
Get real. The U.S. military can't even keep the Taliban under control in Afghanistan using full spectrum warfare. Texas alone is larger than Afghanistan. Think they're going to keep a lid on countless local yokels who know every creosote bush and crevice in Boquillas Canyon? Or drop daisy cutters on San Diego?
It's never going to happen. Most of those guys in 101st Airborne came in from places like OK, SC, MS and TX.
The U.S. military can't even keep the Taliban under control in Afghanistan using full spectrum warfare.
______________
Another US citizen entangled by his own spin.
Since when the objectives in Afghanistan is to keep the Taliban under control?
You know, by fabricating false objectives that are not pursued, for sure, you manufacture failures.
What next? The 'American' revolution was fought to install freedom, justice and truth?
Djeeeee...
AnAnonymous squatted and dropped this:
Since when is the objective of the Peoples Liberation Army to liberate people?
What next? The Chinese Citizenism Ministry of Truth was established to illuminate the truth? Duji...
Drones, bitchez. And countrymen will always turn on fellow countrymen, again and again. If American soldiers won't do it, they'll just use NATO.
drones have to land, refuel, get parts, maintain comm, and be piloted... This isn't magic, but I know it seems that way.
NATO?...really?
Who will they call on for reinforcements...the blue helmets of the UN?
Yeah, that'll sure shake everyone up...OMG!!!, the Bangladeshi's!!!...lol.
It's not the 101st Airborne or the Blue Helmets that worry me. It's contract-killers like Blackwater, feral Negroes (and Whites) out foraging for water/food/rapine, Latino gangs, etc. Also the regime, what's left of it, will use the FEMA camps to recruit Red Guard type militia...altogether, what Ann Barnhardt calls the "Free Shit Army". And it will be quite dangerous.
.
Those blue helmets are certainly easily identifiable targets. Might as well give them some red shirts from Star Trek to wear, just to complete the effect.
Drones won't save your ass.
Who in the hell is going to make all these drones when they are all but used up? Somehow I think we have to remember that if things get that bad then there really will not be a functioning economy to "produce" the arms we've gone into debt inventing. Trust me, my neighborhood better armed today than my infantry company just a few short years ago....
The drones have left the mujahadeen largely unimpressed and even more pissed off and determined than ever. Drones can be hacked and/or jammed, just ask the Iranians. There is also more than enough knowlege in the US civilian sector to build, arm and deploy drones.
BTW, what will you do? Just roll over, grovel and beg for mercy? Let them rape your wife/daughter if they'll let you live? Rat out your neighbors and friends?
Chickenshit.
Guns and bullets are only symptoms of a disease, our mental health crisis.
I agree w/ the stress, and increases in violence to come.
BUT,it has nothing to do with ammunition,or how many rounds one owns.
Avid enthusiasts, and hunters, always own several calibers.
If you have 4-6 hanguns, and 3-4 rifles, its very EASY to justify having 10,000 rds of ammo.
As to get best price you must buy in bulk, and that is usually a min of 1k rds.
As for the mass killings in Colorado, the Dr. treating Holmes is at fault, and the Colorado legislature is #1 on the list of the cause of all the dead and wounded at Columbine, and the Church shooting, and now the Theater murders.
Predators always seek out the weakest ,least protected victims.
38 states have reciprocity laws for CCW, and crime stats are WAY down,in all CCW states, lower than they have ever been in the last 30-40yrs.
The Colorado legislature should have after Columbine, immediately offered the citizens the right to conceal carry.
This senseless slaughter of UNARMED victims would stop.Instead they continue to allow their people to be sheep.
Mental health problem, not a gun problem.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kW4my8xoDIo&feature=related
Stop trying to be so rational.
I almost downvoted you, but I realized that is exactly the problem. These anti gun (or ammunition) freaks do not understand that government/societies/individuals can lose their sanity, and when they do, there is no stopping them without physical force. So if you rationalize that nonforce is an option against a violent action, you become a victim because you cannot rationalize your opponents insanity.