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Iran’s Words Mistranslated Again by Americans Trying to Start a War
Most Americans confuse zionism and Judaism.
While many assume that zionism simply means allowing the Israeli nation to exist, many zionists in high positions within the Netanyahu and Sharon administrations advocate for very different policies altogether, including the use of offensive wars throughout the Middle East. See this, and read the section entitled “Securing the Realm” here.
In reality, many devout Jews are against zionism as being antithetical to traditional Jewish values. As such, many Jews say that criticizing zionism is not anti-semitism. … and some zionists themselves admit that even non-Jews have the right to criticize Israel.
Zionists can be also be Christian. Indeed, millions of fundamentalist Christians – including many in the American military - want to start WWIII to speed the “second coming” of Jesus Christ.
As such, the common practice of American politicians and media of interchanging Iran’s words about the “zionist regime” with the word “Israel” is disingenuous. For example, AP reported today:
Israel‘s existence is an “insult to all humanity,” Iran’s president said Friday ….”The existence of the Zionist regime is an insult to all humanity,” Ahmadinejad said.
Criticizing a particular “regime” in Israel is akin to criticizing the “Bush administration” or the “Obama administration”. For example, saying that Bush should have been impeached is not calling for the American government to be overthrown.
Similarly, the AP story repeated the old canard:
Tensions between Iran and Israel have intensified since 2005, when Ahmadinejad said in a speech that Israel will one day be “wiped off the map.”
As a New York Times translation notes, Ahmadinejad wasn’t referring to Israel at all, but to the “regime” – i.e. the current political administration – in Israel.
Moreover, it was not Ahmadinejad himself speaking. He was quoting Ayatollah Khomeini, who died in 1989 (and who looked exactly like Sean Connery’s long-lost twin).
People can debate whether zionism is helpful or counter-productive, or which form of zionism is best. But interchanging zionism and Israel without explanation is misleading.
And anti-semitism is wholly unacceptable, as is prosecution of Christians, Muslims or anyone else for their religion or race.
But whatever Iran’s faults, the fact is that:
- The U.S. has been looking for an excuse to bomb Iran again for many decades
- The U.S. funds terrorist groups within Iran
- Iran protects Jews, and it’s constitution officially recognizes their rights (scroll to bottom; on the other hand, our close ally Saudi Arabia is virulently anti-semitic, and is the main backer of terrorism in the Middle East and abroad)
- The American media is always pro-war, and happily trumpets disinformation about supposed enemies to drum up support for new wars
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...For the Jews, the gas chamber.
At least have the balls to finish your thought.
"...come to <your>r senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will."
I don't often think of the devil, but when I do he's Earl Pastko in "Hwy 61".
I always found this fascinating: "Indeed, millions of fundamentalist Christians – including many in the American military - want to start WWIII to speed the “second coming” of Jesus Christ."
Like, please, please, Apocalypse Cometh? Of all beliefs I encountered, this is still the strangest to me. I still don't "grok" it.
It's no different than the majority of the ZH brigade who become orgasmic at the though of the impending demise of western civilation
That the entire West has become hostage to the American-established financial system is the greatest crisis Western Civilization has faced since the fall of Rome. I can pull my credentials as someone who taught Western Civilization in the university before being run out for being "too conservative" if you like.
Impending?
Get your tenses right.
That's because it only exists in the drooling far left hand side of town.
In reality, where most of the rest of us live...er, not so much.
But, there was that one guy in Toadsuck, Alabama who said it once, GW probably meant him.
The MILLIONS must be alliterative styling.
Perhaps we should take a poll, or just see what Zionists espouse on youtube...
Don't be stupid man. You know this is just fucking nonsense, slanderous garbage. There are all kinds that believe all kinds of shit. To say there are "millions of fundamentalist Christians"... blah blah blah, is just showing what a dumb ass you are. You're probably thinking about some down and out, alcoholic, born again, former crack head, you picked up hitch-hiking, who read a few bible passages and got a free meal once in a while. Those dudes do not "millions" make. Maybe they need some mental health drugs, but to attribute their shit to "millions" is just plain ignorant and dishonest.
LOL! In an insanely Christian nation of 300,000,000 people, you actually think there AREN'T millions of fundamentalist Christians? Who's the dumbass here?
Sorry dipshit, but you left out the "want to start WWIII to speed the “second coming” of Jesus Christ." part that doesn't deserve repeating --- so I didn't.
Here is one Christian Zionist Organization alone that claims membership of over a million:
Every one of them can kiss my round ass.
I was born and raised in the 'Christian Zionist world, believe me these looney toons exist and are way too numerous. Once I became old enough to start questioning the whole premise of 'Judeo-Christianity' and 'Christian Zionism' it didn't take long for me to figure out it was complete bullshit. I left them in my rearview mirror. They support Israel first over their own country because of this crazy twisted false religious dogma they believe..."If we don't do every thing for Israel, God will punish us." That's a paraphrase of what my own father told me countless times.
Christian Zionism grew exponentially in the early 20th century after the Bible and the Scofield Reference scam were melded together(see: Scofield: Zionism's Un-Christian Bible or this: The Roots of Christian Zionism: How Scofield Sowed Seeds of Apostasy ).
BTW I have no need of, nor desire to worship a 'God' who has selected one certain group of people as his "chosen ones." When I was a little kid in Sunday School I was taught that song about Jesus loving all the children of the world..."red and yellow, black and white, they're all precious in his sight." Apparently I missed the verse about Jesus loving the little Jewish children just a little more.
After I studied on it even more, I've developed a decided distaste for Christianity, Judaism, and their bastard child 'Judeo-Christianity.
When I was a little kid in Sunday School I was taught that song about Jesus loving all the children of the world ...
My wife's favorite spoof of that song:
The zionists would refer to them all as goyim, just as they refer to the rest of us who are not they.
Where do you live?
Sounds like Ghordius hit a fundamentalist christian nerve.
No. He hit little.
It's simply an accepted way of preparing an article in these times that when you dare to criticize Zionism or Islam you cover yourself from retribution by slandering the easy, less violent Christians. Nice balanced article now the happy bappys have been dragged in. Still a good one GW.
".... slandering the easy, less violent Christians."
Good one.
Wait, you're serious? String got plucked there did it?
heh, "slander...less violent" indeed, just quit kidding around already.
guys, I just know that I know nothing about this. and the more I look into it (including the comments here) the less I think I know something. Just look at the diverging opinions.
"Indeed, millions of fundamentalist Christians – including many in the American military - want to start WWIII to speed the “second coming” of Jesus Christ."
Do you in fact have any reliable source for such a claim? Results of a recent survey? Anything?
I assume the term "Fundamentalist Christian" means one who fundamentally believes the teachings of Christ. As such, anyone who has bothered to actually read the scriptures will find no support whatsoever for the proposition that the faithful should "start a world war" to hasten Christ's return.
Grow up George, and stop using the same tactics you accuse TPTB of using...
George is correct about this. There is abundant evidence that the US Airforce under the Bush admin heavily encouraged hardline christian fundamentalism, and used Christian theology as a motivation and behaviour modifier: I looked into this about 6 years ago and it is all true.
Christian fundamentalist bigotry reigns at US Air Force Academy - 30 April 2005
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2005/apr2005/acad-a30.shtm
Air Force Academy Cadets Decide They Must Pretend To Be Fundamentalist - Oct 12th 2011
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/chris-rodda/air-force-academy-cadets-_b_10...
"Jesus Loves Nukes": Air Force Cites New Testament, Ex-Nazi, to Train Officers on Ethics of Launching Nuclear Weapons - July 27th 2011
http://truth-out.org/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=2356:jesus-lov...
--
And the more recent links show that this religious fundamentalist radicalisation of serving US air force members and cadets continues to this day under Oboma. They are being systematically encouraged to think in terms of prophetic fulfilment.
So what George is saying above is in fact true. People may not want to face it but this has been going on for a long time.
Your asking for reliable sources from posters on Zerohedge? You'll get no such thing. Instead, you'll get links to 3000 conspiracy websites run by GW, David Pierre and all the other loons.
Well, if we consider creationists as fundamentalist nutcases, as any sane person would, then yes. There are millions.
BINGO!
"Somehwere in Africa, somewhere in Rome. People are sleeping awake in their homes. Waiting for shepherds to tend to the sheep, Their disappointments there piled in a corner..." - The Stranglers
Pool Shark, I hate to be the one to tell you this, but the notion that the temple must be restored in a greater Jerusalem and the hosts of East brought to slaughter in the valley of Armaggedon in order to bring about the 2nd coming of Christ is a core tenet of Christian eschatology. Many Christians do, in fact, take this to mean that the Christian duty of America is to expand Israel and provoke the "hoards of the East." One can hear this sought of talk at many Evangelical Churches and in private conversation with many Christians; even those without substantive Evangelical leanings, will confess to sympathy for unmitigated, unquestioning support of Israel's expansion. Do not act as if GW has personally offended you. You know that on the whole, his statement is correct. If you do not know this, then you have never engaged in any substantive conversation with any Evangelical Christian and would have no reason to be offended.
Do not act as if GW has personally offended you. You know that on the whole, his statement is correct. ... [which is] ... the notion that the temple must be restored in a greater Jerusalem and the hosts of East brought to slaughter in the valley of Armaggedon in order to bring about the 2nd coming of Christ is a core tenet of Christian eschatology.
The whole of GW's statement about Evangelicals believing that they can influence the 2nd Coming is incorrect. Spend some time with this link and you will see why.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc
Post hoc ergo propter hoc, Latin for "after this, therefore because of this", is a logical fallacy (of the questionable cause variety) that states "Since that event followed this one, that event must have been caused by this one."
The notion that "this must happen in order to bring about ..." (your words) is the incorrect perspective. Few, if any, people who know the Bible believe that it commands us to do anything to cause Christ to come. People who know the Bible know that there is nothing we can do to bring about the 2nd Coming. Jesus himself said that he didn't know when it would occur. Further, the Bible induces uncertainty about when the 2nd Coming will happen by saying that, if left to themselves, people will kill themselves off totally ("there shall be no flesh saved") (no mention of Israel here) - but in order to keep that from happening, God will probably move up the time when the 2nd Coming happens (will make it happen sooner than originally planned). There is no hint anywhere in the Bible that humans have any control over influencing when the 2nd Coming happens.
But back to G.W. and the Israel connection: To say that 1.) the 2nd Coming will happen after such and such happens is not the same statement as saying 2.) the 2nd Coming will happen because such and such happens. People who know the Bible understand that the Bible supports Statement 1, not Statement 2.
After this, therefore, because of this does not apply to Israel and the 2nd Coming, as laid out in the Bible. Therefore, the whole of G.W.'s point is not only irrelevant, but incorrect. No one who knows the Bible thinks they can do anything to influence when the 2nd Coming will occur. And those who don't know the Bible and might think that certainly do not number in the millions.
Finally, in response to your words: in order to bring about the 2nd coming of Christ is a core tenet of Christian eschatology. Scan through this link and the associated links and then tell me you still believe that there is any core tenet of Christian eschatology. There are multiple tenets, many of them contradictory - and each one held by millions of believers. There is no one central belief about the 2nd Coming amongst all Christians.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_eschatology
I am, in fact, a Christian, and I do not disagree with much of what you say here. I do, however, disagree with the millions (and there are millions) of Christian Evangelicals who believe that bringing about the return of Christ through support for a Nazi-like Israeli state is some decree from on high. This belief has its roots in much of the religious hucksterism that went on as Evangelical Christianity got going in the late 19th and early 20th centuries in America. You can, and should, disagree with these Christian militants, but to deny that they exist... is foolish.
Remember we are making the distinction between 1.) this event will bring about the return of Christ (it will cause the return of Christ to happen) vs. 2.) the return of Christ will follow (come after) this event.
You claim there are millions of Evangelicals that believe Statement #1. Can you, or anyone else who believes this, provide a link or two to a few websites where Christians are expressing their belief that they (or anyone else) can cause the 2nd Coming to happen by starting Armageddon? If millions actually believe this, I would think there would be some evidence in print somewhere. I'm just being curious here, not meaning to be snarky.
+1 "There is no one central belief about the 2nd Coming amongst all Christians." Particularly if you include Catholics to the "all Christians". It's really interesting how much eschatology diverges among the different branches of Christendom. This was already a highly controversial matter at Chalcedon and Nicea. And went further during the expected return of Christ for the year 1000.
All morality can be hijacked.
Christian morality is no different.
There is no such thing like Christian (Islamic, Budist, Rastaferian...) morality. Actually, concept and arbitrage of morality is hijacked by religion.
How many crusades, Jihads, burned astronomers, banned books and other atrocities do you want me to list in support of my argument?
Scientist can observe morality concept in behavior of most social animal species.
BTW, making living on manipulating people's fear of death is one of the most immoral things I can think of.
Religion highjacks morality, as does government. Governments vary in their use of morality, and so do religions.
I think of morality as a behavioral adaptation of the survival instinct. Unfortunately, the survival benefits were not such as to be enjoyed by the tribe over the hill, but by the one where they originated. Consequently, it has taken a very long time for the benefits of morality to be close to universal in application.
That aspect of being applied within a specific group, or against a different group, is where morality fails.
The commonly accepted moral spheres: harm, fairness, group loyalty, authority, and purity, all seemed to have been highjacked to whack the Jews.
And they are being used to gin up an attack on Iran.
The Moral Instinct by Steven Pinker
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/13/magazine/13Psychology-t.html?_r=1&page...
Or, those crazy radicals, the Mennonites.
http://www.mcc.org/system/files/PON_2005-03.pdf
You probably know this aw, but others may not. The Mennonites(as are the Amish and Hutterites among others) are remnants of the Anabaptists who were persecuted by the Catholic church in Europe. My father's ancestors were Anabaptists in Switzerland before leaving for America as the result of the persecution and laws that offended their beliefs. His more recent ancestors in America were Mennonites. He should have stuck with them instead of falling into the snare of Pentecostal Christianity and Christian Zionism.
btw great link... +1
Stephen Sizer's detailed refutation of Scofield's theology see here.
Also good:
The Modern State of Israel: Providence, Miracle, or What Really Happenedby Robert Singer
Part II: http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/TPV3/Voices.php/2010/05/25/world-war-i-ii...
From their own mouths:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Late,_Great_Planet_Earth
Every house in Tennessee had a well-read copy of this on a bookshelf in 1979.
Have you read that wiki article? Neither the article nor the book it describes express any hope for war. It is complete bullshit to claim,
That just isn't so. Believing what the bible says about terrible destruction before the return of the Messiah does NOT equate into wanting that destruction! The biblical message shows God pleading with people to not choose their own distruction. Why are you and "George Washington" hell-bent on distorting that message?
"god pleading with people"...
Now that...takes the cake. He built the universe in 7 days and then he pleads with his creation...?
To what lengths will people go to uphold a human concoction that enslaves mankind in a cage built on fear and superstition.
I do believe in metaphysics, in the spirituality of man; but not in the "three imposters" of Abraham's legacy. Or rather those who have made it into religious dogma, extracting huge political and social advantage from it as God's servants.
The greatest sin of Abrahamic culture is to have made woman a subservient artefact; Adam's rib! Source of all sin!
None other than Holy Emperor Frederick II Hohenstaufen invented that definition of spiritual scam! The irony of history!
Treatise of the Three Impostors - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
will never end to amaze, the stupor mundi. a man truly stranger to all times
the Mafia in Sicily still wears his mark, did you know that? he made them to what they are
Absolute rubbish! You are either outright lying, or you don't know anything at all about that book.
I read that book, from cover to cover, when it first came out, and it gives the most appallingly graphic and blood-curdling account of a coming prophetic apocalypse, and "Great Tribulation", prior to the return of Christ. The book goes on an on about scriptural 'signs of the times', and that a monumental war, like nothing anyone has ever seen, will break out just be fore Jesus returns.
That's a core belief of Christian fundamentalism.
"Element", you did not read my post.
I've read the book. The book does not hope for war, it does not condone war, it does not want to "start world war III", (that was what my comment pointed out).
The book reflects an interpretation of biblical prophecies about end times. The bible states there will be a great tribulation before the return of Messiah. Why are you and GW et al. deterimined to say that those who believe this WANT the destruction to come? Again, the biblical message is for people to repent, turn to God and AVOID the destruction that will come. Is this so hard to understand?
Think of the aphorism, "It is darkest before the dawn." Often applied to difficult situations, this phrase does not indicate a hope for more difficulties, more darkness. Instead, it offers hope that dawn is coming. The tribulation is like that. Nobody in their right mind wants such terrible destruction. They want the light at the end of the tunnel.
Since this is ZeroHedge, perhaps a financial analogy is in order. Christians are like investors who know fiat money is going to crash. But instead of shorting currency ("start WWIII"), the christian has put all his wealth into the productive capacity of his basic staples company.
Hope this helps.
Ok, I understand you now, but I think you should acknowledge there are some pretty perverse 'christians' out there, who are happy to help it along and to play a part in it.
Theres also some pretty perverse believers in muhammad out there.
I lost count (after five strikes) of how many missiles hit Israel while NBC was yammering on about the Olympic games that no one was watching.
To say "christian" this or jooo that, leaves out an entire class of antagnonists.
lol, yeah, well, I suspect those rockets didn't come from atheists.
But ... you reap what you sew ... think it was a Jew who said that.
They never learn.
"I suspect those rockets didn't come from atheists."
Very true...but I've never thought of atheists as pacifists either...lol...they just like to fight over other stuff.
"you reap what you sew ... think it was a Jew who said that."
Yes, it was.
And His mortal father was a carpenter...so I'm sure there are many who might say, clearly something needs to be done with all these radical carpenters before anymore of their sons wind up nailed to crosses or maybe its just a passing Roman fad ;-)
Can we focus on what GW actually claimed: "millions of fundamentalist Christians ... want to start WWIII"?
There's a big difference between god botherers believing there will be a war [started by somebody else] and actually working to start a war.
Have no doubt that the Luciferian neocons of both sides of politics are trying to start a war...or six (remember: the Zionist Neocons started out under the Democrat banner, then switched teams to the Republicans in 1968 when they saw that Nixon was going to win. Since then they've been deeply entrenched in both teams). But the neocons are not fundamentalist christians ... they're all motherfucking Zionists!
On the other hand, GW's masters in the CNP (which does include many neocons and most of the prominent fundamentalist preachers) are indeed going full-court press to convince fundamentalist christians that there will be a war and that they should look for such a war to herald the return of their saviour. In other words, that war is "inevitable" and "foretold in the Bible".
In summary: We have one group trying to start a war and their good buddies in another group telling their "true believers" to expect one ... with the believers of the second group being blamed for trying to start it!
It's almost as big a con game as central banking and fiat currency ... but with even more destructive consequences for all of us!
ehm... "god botherers" are you using this word in the strongly pejorative meaning that is used in some parts of the Commonwealth?
anyway: "neocons"? why putting this "political" label (and then constantly wonder when they shift allegiance to the winners) when Ike gave such a good one to them?
Military-Industrial Complex, now also called Military-Security Complex. follow the money, i-dog, always follow the money...
The term "neocon" is a political label ... though most don't know that it had its origins within the Democratic party during LBJ's administration. Google up Henry 'Scoop' Jackson and Irving Kristol.
I'm not sure what you mean by linking the MIC to fundamental christians!?! (Though linking the MIC to the Khazarians-Luciferians would be most appropriate ;-).
there is no need for a direct link. this is what makes politics in countries with two parties only so confusing
the friends of my friends are my friends
the enemies of my enemies are my friends
whoever stands in my way is my enemy
this is the mantra of power, since time immemorial
C wants to sell arms, A wants foreign involvement, ergo A is C's natural friend
B has a pet enemy, B is the natural friend of A and C
K sows fear, C likes K, B agrees with K, B points to the correct enemy
D needs to sell security equipment, E needs votes, F needs a new law to protect his rights further, G and K want to increase their religious power, H wants less taxes, J wants more regulation that kills the small entrants in his market, and Z wants to finance it all from the money that he lent from you
eventually all chained together with bands of friendship against other interests, trading interest like a commodity
political interest does not need planning
one unvisible hand governs most of the economy, the other unvisible hand governs most of politics
the same way as you don't need to know the man that made the pizza you ordered, or the man that made the dough, or the farmer that grew the wheat
so I don't need to know the man that sells the weapons, the man that has a new enemy, the man that crafts the casus belli, nor the man that wants a pipeline there, nor the holy man that calls for the holy crusade, nor the pretty bards that sing the news about it nor the holy oracle that says that wars and broken windows will make the babes hot and fertile and so blesses the crusade, nor all the consumers of gas that will eventually pay for all this great effort
eventually my money will reach the holy man, and he will send the young warriors ready to die for what is most holy
it always strikes me as strange that some accept the one but not the other
it's history, and it rhymes, and the above applies for all realms, past, present and future
You have a point, but they don't seem to be doing a whole lot not to have WWIII break-out. Your own final remarks about believers implies it.
So let's just say they "keenly and expectantly await the fulfilment" of the events of the 'last-days', and will be rather delighted to see it's unfolding appear, and to have their ardent beliefs vindicated, as the wicked are wiped out by war.