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Major General: Why Are Domestic Government Agencies Purchashing Enough Lethal Ammunition to Put 5 Rounds In Every American?
Preface: There might be an innocent explanation. But given recent trends, this is worrisome.
Retired Major General Jerry Curry wrote Friday:
The Social Security Administration (SSA) confirms that it is purchasing 174 thousand rounds of hollow point bullets to be delivered to 41 locations in major cities across the U.S.
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Those against whom the hollow point bullets are to be used — those causing the civil unrest — must be American citizens; since the SSA has never been used overseas to help foreign countries maintain control of their citizens.
What would be the target of these 174, 000 rounds of hollow point bullets? It can’t simply be to control demonstrators or rioters. Hollow point bullets are so lethal that the Geneva Convention does not allow their use on the battle field in time of war. Hollow point bullets don’t just stop or hurt people, they penetrate the body, spread out, fragment and cause maximum damage to the body’s organs. Death often follows.
Potentially each hollow nose bullet represents a dead American. If so, why would the U.S. government want the SSA to kill 174,000 of our citizens, even during a time of civil unrest?
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If this were only a one time order of ammunition, it could easily be dismissed. But there is a pattern here. The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) has ordered 46,000 rounds of hollow point ammunition. Notice that all of these purchases are for the lethal hollow nose bullets. These bullets are not being purchased and stored for squirrel or coyote hunting. This is serious ammunition manufactured to be used for serious purposes.
In the war in Iraq, our military forces expended approximately 70 million rounds per year. In March DHS ordered 750 million rounds of hollow point ammunition. It then turned around and ordered an additional 750 million rounds of miscellaneous bullets including some that are capable of penetrating walls. This is enough ammunition to empty five rounds into the body of every living American citizen. Is this something we and the Congress should be concerned about? What’s the plan that requires so many dead Americans, even during times of civil unrest? Has Congress and the Administration vetted the plan in public.
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All of these rounds of ammunition can only be used to kill American citizens, though there is enough ammunition being ordered to kill, in addition to every American citizen, also every Iranian, Syrian or Mexican. There is simply too much of it. And this much ammunition can’t be just for training, there aren’t that many weapons and “shooters” in the U.S. to fire it.
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We have enough military forces to maintain law and order in the U.S. even during times of civil unrest.
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This is a deadly serious business. I hope I’m wrong, but something smells rotten. And If the Congress isn’t going to do its duty and investigate this matter fully, the military will have to protect the Constitution, the nation, and our citizens.
Why are government agencies doing this?
Major General Curry asks a troubling questions:
We have local police, backed up by each state’s National Guard, backed up by the Department of Defense. So in addition to all these forces why does DHS need its own private army? Why do the SSA, NOAA and other government agencies need to create their own civilian security forces armed with hollow nose bullets?
This may sound like a conspiracy theory …
But remember that Senator Daniel Inouye said in 1987:
There exists a shadowy Government with its own Air Force, its own Navy, its own fundraising mechanism, and the ability to pursue its own ideas of national interest, free from all checks and balances, and free from the law itself.
The Federal Reserve – which is not exactly federal (and see this)- also has its own police force. See this and this.
Chalmers Johnson called the CIA the President’s private army.
But that’s nothing compared to JSOC. As John Glaser wrote in February:
For the past decade, we’ve seen the rise of a secret, unaccountable U.S. military force … Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC) is an unwieldy private army at the command of the President, and him only. And they conduct military and spy missions all over the world, never receiving formal congressional approval ….
“Without the knowledge of the American public,” wrote Nick Turse back in August, “a secret force within the U.S. military is undertaking operations in a majority of the world’s countries. This new Pentagon power elite is waging a global war whose size and scope has never been revealed.” According to a recent Congressional Research Service report, JSOC forces “reportedly conduct highly sensitive combat and supporting operations against terrorists on a world-wide basis.” As the New York Times this week reported:
The Special Operations Command now numbers just under 66,000 people — including both military personnel and Defense Department civilians — a doubling since 2001. Its budget has reached $10.5 billion, up from $4.2 billion in 2001 (after adjusting for inflation).Over the past decade, Special Operations Command personnel have been deployed for combat operations, exercises, training and other liaison missions in more than 70 countries. Since the invasion of Iraq in 2003, Special Operations Command sustained overseas deployments of more than 12,000 troops a day, with four-fifths committed to the broader Middle East.
JSOC operates outside the confines of the traditional military and even beyond what the CIA is able to do.
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But it goes well beyond the war zones. In concert with the Executive’s new claims on extra-judicial assassinations via drone strikes, even if the target is an American citizen, JSOC goes around the world murdering suspects without the oversight of a judge or, god forbid, granting those unfortunate souls the right to defend themselves in court against secret, evidence-less government decrees about their guilt. As Pulitzer Prize winning journalist Seymour Hersh said at a speaking event in 2009:
Congress has no oversight of it. It’s an executive assassination ring essentially, and it’s been going on and on and on.***
Under President Bush’s authority, they’ve been going into countries, not talking to the ambassador or the CIA station chief, and finding people on a list and executing them and leaving. That’s been going on, in the name of all of us….
[Marc Ambinder told Wired]:
There are legal restrictions on what the CIA can do in terms of covert operations. There has to be a finding, the president has to notify at least the “Gang of Eight” [leaders of the intelligence oversight committees] in Congress. JSOC doesn’t have to do any of that. There is very little accountability for their actions. What’s weird is that many in congress who’d be very sensitive to CIA operations almost treat JSOC as an entity that doesn’t have to submit to oversight. It’s almost like this is the president’s private army, we’ll let the president do what he needs to do.
An End-Run Around the Constitution?
Remember, we’ve gone from a nation of laws to a nation of powerful men making laws in secret. A nation where Congressional leaders themselves aren’t even allow to see the laws, or to learn about covert programs. A nation where Congressmen are threatened with martial law if they don’t approve radical programs.
National security powers are being used to help big business, to the detriment of the American people.
Veterans returning from the front lines are labeled “potential terrorists”, to the horror of both the Republican and Democratic leadership.
This is not surprising, given that tyrannical regimes always crumble when the footsoldiers refuse to carry out draconian measures.
Indeed, active duty military personnel are big Ron Paul supporters. And see this. Because liking Ron Paul – as well as liking liberty or the Founding Fathers – may get one branded as a potential terrorist these days, there may be some friction between active military folks and the government as well.
We’ve been in a continuous state of National Emergency for 11 years. The Constitution has so thoroughly been shredded that it – literally – unclear whether we are still living in a constitutional form of government.
Because military folks are sworn to defend the Constitution, many still would not allow the imposition of overt, full-scale fascism without a fight. See this and this.
As such, Major General Curry’s speculation is chilling, indeed:
Is the purpose [of the lethal ammunition purchases] to kill 174,000 of the nation’s military and replace them with Department of Homeland Security (DHS) special security forces, forces loyal to the Administration, not to the Constitution?
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I've posted on ZH before that I thought the fight might be between the military and the police-- lots of little things point that way--
If that is the case, then I already know who the victor will be. The police do not have chance.
Hollow point rounds are usually used in civil unrest/urban warfare/crowd control because they don't ricochet like normal bullets. Shooting normal rounds in a densely populated area could cause a lot of collateral damage. When these bullets bounce from asphalt or steel, they still have enough speed to kill someone. When a hollow point bullet hits something, it'll expand and deform, greatly reducing speed.
Not to defend a government killing people on the street, but hollow rounds are intended to generate shock and awe (like big holes on body) without too many casualties.
They can use rubber bullets, bean bags and tear gas before they decide to absolutely blow somebody to pieces with a hollow point. Hollow points kill. That's the point of them. If they were worried about casualties they'd use something other than hollow point bullets.
Maybe NOAA is worried about great whites. Some dude got munched off Cape Cod. But, I'd say all the others are reading revolutionary war comments here on ZH and prepping.
"shock and awe"
fear and submission
One sentinel for every man, woman and child in Zion. Sounds exactly like the thinking of a machine to me.
- Morpheus
Current societal trends certainly are very troubling.
Human nature is not something easily changed no matter how many useless degrees we give out every year in psychology and sociology.
But who is to say that TPTB do not know this and are actually using human nature as a tool to advance their agenda?
what the fuck are you talking about... OF COURSE THEY ARE... this is a fundamental trait of virtually everyone who is "successful"... the ability to understand how to manipulate people and play the game... in turn, they are sprung up the chain of bureaucracy... you take a cross section of the elite... of people who actually had to forge their way through, and I'll posit that the vast majority of them are, at the very least, incredibly intuitively aware of "human nature".
what do you think causes the eternal and insatiable demand for credit? how do you think that we keep repeating the same mistakes over and over again... because our tendencies are coded into us... we're dealing with aspects of human nature, not isolated individuals.
Combine one part Noam Chomsky's description of manufacturing consent (the play book of playing the game through any institution) with one part Jon Ronson and the recognition that the top of most of these institutions are occupied by sociopaths and you have... Our Society.
LOL! Someone using Chomsky on this site. Going to have to do better than Chomsky man. Chomsky is like a toddler compared to some of the heavy weights some of us read.
Face eating got you down?
Remember that when Caesar crossed the Rubicon, the Roman Republic was well into trouble. He replaced the Roman Republic with him at the helm, which balanced out the power of the Senate elite with someone that fought for the lay man. Well the elite didn't appreciate that and whacked him.
Caesar was an exceptional case of someone that could be emperor, he had the people's interest at heart, and saw the imbalance of power, and the same folks that had that power were also threatening him. His interests were alligned with the common people.
Maybe dictatorship is the natural end of democratic republics.
Seems it was a regular occurance in Rome
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Roman_dictators
You didn't build that villa. Somebody else did that.
You sound just like ObaMao!
http://youtu.be/bBgQIy3clBg
Gun owners target practice with full metal jacket rounds but carry hollow points in their self defense weapons. They might fire a few hollow points at the range, but certainly not in high numbers. Because hollow points cost about 4 times what the cheaper target practice ammo costs.
DHS recently clarified that they are using this for target practice. So the claim is that this is simply government waste - they are too good to target practice like the rest of us.
So you either have to believe that government is great at wasting money, or believe they are stocking up to shoot us.
Both,ever wastefull even in genocide.
JHP rounds do not cost four times as much as FMJ. Maybe 30% - 50% more.
http://www.cabelas.com/catalog/browse/shooting-ammunition/_/N-1100188/Ns...
If you can afford it, shooting your duty load at the range is best. Then one is trained for exactly what happens in the field. And HP don't cost much more than any other. Only the premium SD rounds like Golden Saber, Hydra-shoks, Critical Defense, etc. can get quite spendy. The only reason most people shoot FMJ is price and ease of re-loading.
FORWARD SOVIET!
hydrashocks are for the plebs... LE gets HST (and you can find them too if you look, but typically only when LE returns them to the seller due to policies by the manufacturers).
Dept's, Agencys will use fmj for practice.Come time to qualify they will use the jhp they were carrying.Then reissued new jhp.
the advantage of hollow point defense rounds is that they stay in the body
they do not go out the other side, so you have to worry less about the background
i also would like to point out,having been a combat lifesaver in combat, that a round that goes all the way through the body leaves two holes and the subject is more likely to bleed out than with a hollow point round
a hollow point is actually less deadly, but is more likely to halt the assailant without a second round
hollow points are also less likely to penetrate body armor
all this said, i'd rather not be shot by any round at all, and question the motivation for the purchase of that many rounds, unless it is being done to reduce the supply available to the public
Well, _if_ you're a combat lifesaver, then your experience will only be with FMJ rounds.
Saying HP is less deadly is just bull. We are talking about total transfer of energy, if the bullet goes out, it means it did not deliver the full energy payload.
People hit by HP don't die by bleeding out mate, their internal organs pop, like ballons, when the hydrostatic shockwave blows them up... think of it like a little grenade going off INSIDE you. But say they survive the hydrostatic, which do you think bleeds more... a finger-width hole through you, or a football-sized gapping maw crater?!? You don't bleed out, you bleed IN.
HP is for civs, too many civs without body armor, and it's double good in the sense that if the zombies steal your rounds and you've got even class II BA, you're fine. I suppose the response from civs should be to go out and order a lot of kevlar-coated high velocity rounds, or those fun copper/magnesium rounds.
Ditto on the commentor's line: "Why have we been allowed to know of this? And why specifically now?"
The screws are starting to tighten it seems.
Nage42
Excellent points. Well stated. It is simpply not to be believed that this is for target shooting.
Thanks for posting.
+1
I think it is for target shooting. DHS has compiled the list of targets.
From the number of rounds being ordered*, it is likely that tens (hundreds?) of thousands of government agents, from all of the federally-controlled agencies (which now also includes local and state police), will be sent out on a coordinated early morning "target shooting" run, one day soon. Just sayin'.....
* Are they already [substantially] delivered?
Too true. HP cause 'crush/stretch cavities' that cause shock in the victim and internal bleeding of massive proportions and no turnequette is going to save you.
they also make bonded hollow points... e.g. winchester rangers... which I think FBI uses...
ammo manufacturers cater to whatever is needed by whomever needs their product... for some, penetration through barriers (e.g. car doors/windshields) is a selling point.
As close as a civilian can get to a "Black Talon" these days IIRC.
So the question you need to ask yourself is: why are we being allowed to know about this?
Excellent question K. I'm confident it is not directed at my TV addicted, Soma popping dolts that I work with. They would roll over one second if confronted. I'm guessing this info is for the ZH crowd, preppers and those who have voiced their concerns a little to brazenly on FB, social media.
Miffed:-)
My tin-foil-o-meter says Red Herring.
What is going on that we don't know about?
Hopefully they're gearing me up to purchase a bunch of unused LE ammo when they stiff the wholesaler/intermediaries and cram it back up the shipping line... I will gladly do my part to stockpile.
It all started with a lowly mail clerk in the shipping department of the bullet manufacture. He told the dock worker that told the truck driver who CB'd it out to hundreds of other truckers while going down the Interstate. Immediately, a trucker posted it on FacePlant, Twitter, and sent the info to both sides' political PAC's. ---or--- someone in the WH leaked it.
We got a little ole convoy rockin' thru the night,
Yeah, we got a little ole convoy, ain't she a beautiful sight?
Come on and join our convoy, ain't nothin' gonna get in our way,
We gonna roll this truckin' convoy 'cross the USA.
Convoy!
Good question. I'm sure there are ways to acquire outside fed biz ops... And the path from prison planet to drudge is almost too convenient, no? What are your thoughts?
It's going to be difficult for the DHS males to shoot people from their posts in the men's bathrooms.
British called such bullets Dum Dum, very popular, used against
natives who got uppity! Used to be the name of the airport in Calcutta, India
An armory in India.Which made the firt Hp's.
Heh heh, yeah.
Could these agencies simply be buying for DoD? If its against The Geneva Convention who is to say that DHS ammo will not wind up as DoD ammo?
Then why is it being delivered to large American urban cities?
Is that where the DoD needs it to be?
Well they would not advertise if they were breaking the Geneva Convention, and I don't know this is why I asked a question
You ask a good question. I'm just asking some as well. (its a habit)
Another question: since when has the U.S. gov't worried about the Geneva Convention? The Geneva Convention has as much respect from our gov't as the Constitution. Our gov't has clearly set the precedent that the end justifies the means, and that human rights can be buried under a great enough "cause" for the "common good".
I just don't see why a gov't that claims the right to assassinate any person on the face of the earth for any reason they deem necessary, would give a shit about hiding bullet purchases for the DoD.
No arguments but even the US needs to keep up appearances, if only to keep the sheep sedated before the slaughter
The DOD doesn't need those rounds. Their use out of the country would be a war crime, for what that's worth these days. Their use inside the borders, nominally illegal under the PCA (Posse Comitatus Act), isn't necessary for the military.
Note that DHS bought .223 rounds (not referring to the HP rounds here). The military uses 5.56 Nato, which has higher case pressures. They could use 'em, but they've got plenty of their own which are plenty effective.
No, this is simply the continuing militarization of Amerikan domstic police forces.
.223 can be fired just fine out of any M4. You just can't reuse the brass due to bulging at the shoulder.
Thank you for the explanation.
That is an exceptionally well made point.
You can't blame the government and the military buying all these bullets and making a whole lot of preparations. These people rightly fear for their lives in the event that the masses wake up to what they have been doing to a great nation in the name of greed, greed and more greed.
I would say it was more in the name of Statism than greed. As bad as greed can be, it doesn't organize and convince people that bombs are the way to create peace.