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OMG, Tax Evasion In Switzerland! By Rich Swiss! But At Least It’s “Officially Silenced To Death”

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Wolf Richter   www.testosteronepit.com

The arm-wrestling between the US, Switzerland, and Swiss banks over funds that US citizens have stashed away in Swiss bank accounts has been going on for years to the point where the Swiss are now actually cracking down on US citizens, or at least aide them in circumnavigating the reporting requirements. In Germany, a similar fight has broken out, albeit with more consideration for the rich. Other governments, desperate for moolah, are also going after their own with funds in Switzerland. Turns out the Swiss themselves, long praised by their politicians for their tax compliance, do what others do: evade taxes—which is part of the human DNA. In Switzerland, however, it’s “officially silenced to death.”

Now Margret Kiener Nellen, Swiss National Council member, former President of the Finance Commission, and member of the center-left Social Democratic Party, has thrown down the gauntlet when she declared with some bravado, “The Federal Government, cantons, and municipalities are deprived annually of 18 billion.”

With bravado, because there aren’t any real numbers. And that’s part of the problem. To arrive at a number at all, she had to do her own calculations; neither the Federal Tax Administration (ESTV) nor the Finance Directors of the cantons have current estimates, laments Kiener Nellen. They purposefully don’t have them.

“The extent of tax fraud by the Swiss has no numbers,” declared ESTV boss Urs Ursprung before a parliamentary commission when some politicians wanted to find out. In June, however, Finance Minister Eveline Widmer-Schlumpf fired him for his involvement in a scandal over the acquisition of a data system.

So Kiener Nellen did her own math, as inadequate as that might appear. The basis was a 2006 study, “Tax Evasion in Switzerland,” by economists Lars P. Feld und Bruno S. Frey, that concluded that 23.5% of gross household income remained underground. She applied an annual tax rate of 20%, a “conservative” estimate, to the household income of 2009 as published by the Federal Statistics Agency. Hence her 18 billion Swiss francs.

Other countries aren’t that shy about studying the extent of tax evasion. In France, it costs the state €50 billion annually, according to an inquiry by a Senate commission. Another study estimated that €600 billion in French assets were hidden in tax havens. And so France is half-heartedly trying to get its hands on some of that dough.

Germany’s planned tax agreement with Switzerland would allow Germans to declare their hidden assets, pay taxes on them at a relatively low rate, and avoid prosecution. Recalcitrant tax evaders have six months to move their assets out of Switzerland, and thus beyond the scope of the agreement. The deal caused a ruckus in some corners due to its leniency.

Germany also acquired five CDs for €8.9 million. They contain, it is said, data of German clients at Swiss banks. The CDs became a casus belli in Switzerland and scared the bejesus out of tax evaders. Despite rumors that they didn’t actually exist, they allowed the government to collect €2.5 billion—a Google-esque return on investment—at least in part from people who turned themselves in. Fear is a strong motivator, along with greed. But it’s just a rounding error: €500 billion in German assets are estimated to be hidden in Swiss banks.

The Swiss bank secrecy laws were “designed for dictators” and the upper crust, “not for normal mortals,” a commenter pointed out. Workers “get paystubs, and every rappen is declared and taxed.”

Hence the unfairness of tax evasion. When Kiener Nellen demanded some answers in 2010, the Federal Council said that tax ethics in Switzerland had deteriorated significantly between 1988 and 1996, but because there have been no studies since then, it was unknown if the trend continued. Then the topic was pushed aside because “rich tax evaders are part of their voter base”—the reason why crackdowns in the US, Germany, and other countries took decades before they began to grow fangs. Politicians don’t want to step on the toes of rich donors voters.

But Kiener Nellen doesn’t mind stepping on toes, apparently. She is demanding new measures from the Federal Council and from the ESTV to fight tax evasion by the Swiss. “Tax fraud is theft from the people,” she said. Upon which a commenters replied, “The only theft from the people is executed by the state itself. Through overly high taxes without compensation.” Priceless.

And so it goes. Switzerland, surrounded by the over-taxed Eurozone and its debt crisis, is keeping a wary eye on it. So they listened with some anxiety as Jean-Claude Juncker, head of the Eurogroup, was jabbering on TV about Greece’s exit when suddenly dark pessimistic floodgates opened. Read.... Top Euro Honcho Juncker: “Europeans are dwarfs.”

And here is.... The Eurozone Crisis Between Euro-Morons And Zombie-Bankers, by George Dorgan.

 

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Mon, 08/27/2012 - 04:57 | 2740344 Ar-Pharazôn
Ar-Pharazôn's picture

i dont really get the point with this article.....

 

tell me what's the problem IF WE the swiss are happy with our 18 bilions tax evation.

 

it's that really a problem for you AMERICANS&EUROPEAN PUPPETS?

 

or perhaps you just JELOUS we can have a country which lower national debt while having economic growth in the middle of this crisis?

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 08:03 | 2740479 AvoidingTaxation
AvoidingTaxation's picture

Not the best article made by Testosteronepit.

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 06:39 | 2740417 I am on to you
I am on to you's picture

What contry is that,a contry made of Tax hideout,chocolate and cheese:Neutral, was is that the word i heard?

And Santa Claus is Chinese,Jews teeth laughing in the vault at you?????

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 07:50 | 2740469 Ar-Pharazôn
Ar-Pharazôn's picture

Lol if this is your idea on Switzerland better for you to study a bit on our economy cause chocolate and cheese ARE NOT our best exports.

 

you just prooved yourself as an idiot.

 

i m sorry for you, i feel something like pity for idiots like you

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 09:09 | 2740614 etresoi
etresoi's picture

What you must understand about idiots, like this, is that 95% of the people of the fascist states do not possess a passport, have never been outside of their country, can not speak more than one languge and in their little parochial mindset of them n' us there is no place better than home.  Thankfully, they will stay there.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 05:18 | 2742931 Ar-Pharazôn
Ar-Pharazôn's picture

totally agree on your opinion.

 

Regards Arphy

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 03:28 | 2740281 honestann
honestann's picture

To follow up on a lot of comments below, ask yourself the following.

Do you WANT any government services?

Without giving the question much thought, the answer, on the surface, might seem to be "yes".  However, I have thought about this a lot over the years, and have come to my conclusion.

My answer is NO --- ZIP, ZERO, NONE, NADA.

On the surface, one might say "roads".  Maybe at one point in history, when costs of government services weren't so egregious, and those individuals who provided so-called government services actually thought of themselves as "servants", one might have been tempted to add "cops" and "teachers".  But that would have to be at least 100 years ago at this point in time, and anyway, given what "government services" invariably leads to, the rational, sensible, correct answer has always been NO.

Besides, fundamentally and inescapably, no "service" that is not voluntary can be called a service.

For me, the last to fall was "roads".  In a way, that government service that we call "roads" was already almost voluntary --- at one time.  Supposedly, roads were financed by "gasoline taxes", so "the more you drive, the more you pay".  So once upon a time, "roads" actually were about as close to a voluntary tax as can be found.  Today, pretty much all connection between "gasoline taxes" and "road construction" has vanished.

However, to return to my self-imposed question, I still wanted to work this question through.  And I omit any remaining government services that are actually and fully voluntary (with no penalties on those who do not participate), since I'm sure none exist.

So I considered roads.  After working this through, I realized I don't want the government to provide roads either.  I realized that, for a short span of history, "road systems" probably made sense.  For a while before that, "railroad systems" probably made sense.  But today, these road systems do not make sense, though probably fewer than 1 in a million humans are in a position to realize this. And because they're not in a position to realize this, most people will naturally support "more/better roads" --- because they drive on them and depend on them virtually every day.  Horrors!  What would they do without roads?  Yikes!  Or more exactly, what would they do without government provided road systems?

I was quite surprised how long it took me to realize how easy this question was to answer intelligently... even though I just happened to be in a great position to realize the correct answer.  That I almost missed the answer proves that the natural inclination is to assume "the way things are is best", and "every other possible way is worse".  Let me try to explain.

It just so happens I got a private pilot license years ago.  But I've never owned my own airplane --- too expensive and too limiting.  Recently I learned of some relatively new airplanes, and one in particular, that are not that expensive to buy, even cheaper to fly, and much more practical (can land almost anywhere --- modest exaggeration, which I will elaborate upon).  And when I say "cheaper to fly", I mean 60~75 miles per gallon... on plain old automobile gasoline (even with 10% ethanol added - yuck).  Yes, that's at "economy speed", which is only 60% throttle and 250kph versus ~50mpg at 75% throttle (cruise at 287kph) or 40mpg pushing the top speed of 300kph.  And remember, when you get 75mpg in a little airplane, you can be traveling straight-line from start to destination, not zig-zagging around where the [good] roads go, not waiting at traffic lights, looking at scenery instead of watching out for cops intent on finding his victims, etc.

But yeah, I said to myself at first, this isn't really a replacement for a car, because I can't just land "anywhere" --- where I want to go.  Actually, that's not true in my case, since I don't live in a city.  In fact, I pretty much CAN land anywhere I want to go, even roll up into the empty field next to gasoline stations of my choice (thought admittedly not every single one).

But I was trying to be fair in this thought experiment, so I asked myself what might the world look like if the government didn't provide roads.  Well, for one thing, this little "flying 2-seater sports car" would cost vastly (and I mean vastly) less than $120K, because they'd be manufactured by the millions per month, not 10 per month, and they'd have serious competition too.  They'd probably cost somewhere between $10K and $20K, though how we figure out how little wonderful goodies would cost in a free world is exceedingly difficult.

But where would they land "in the suburbs"... much less the "urbs"?  Don't we at least need roads in the *urbs?  Which got me thinking.  I only need 100 feet to land (at ~40mph).  But unfortunately, I do need 300 feet (100 yards/meters) to take off, given the wimpy little 100hp engine.  Then it hit me!  Wait a second, that's not a very long "straight stretch".  In fact, lots of roads in developments are much, much longer than 100 yards long.  The problem is, we don't want to land on top of cars sharing the road, and we probably prefer not build two separate "runways" --- one for "regular cars" and another for "flying cars".

Duh.

Ever heard of a red light?  Sheesh!  Problem solved.  Push a button on the dash panel and schedule a short period of "red light" on the runway/street where you want to land.  So just as I'm coming down near the end of [that part of the] street, the light turns red and that portion of the street I need for a few seconds is empty when I get there.  So I land, roll up to my driveway, turn in and stop... and the cars pass by.  Of course, I rather suspect in short order this world would have A LOT fewer "driving cars", and a LOT more "flying cars".

Damn!  That solution was easy.  And the more I thought about it, the easier it became to envision how the world would evolve in this scenario.  I mean, really!  Our little planes want to land and take off at 40mph ~ 60mph.  So, in order to land (or take-off), all we really need on a typical 40mph ~ 60mph road is... a short GAP in the traffic.  The driving cars are moving at 50mph, and we're moving at 50mph in the same direction as we drop down to road level in the gap... then turn 20-degrees to the right to exit on the "flying cars exit" to get out of their way (and park our plane).

The more I thought through the ways the ground could be organized to support sharing by "driving cars" and "flying cars", the more opportunities appeared.

The bottom line and final result of my thinking experiment was --- yeah, the way things are done will develop a bit differently when predators-DBA-government don't totally rule the earth and do everything "their way".  True enough.

This was "best case" for justifying "government services", and it totally fell apart.

The world controlled by predators-DBA-government is so screwed-up, and so devoid of opportunity for people to find ways to "do things better", it is difficult to even begin to imagine how cool the world would be without taxes --- which was subtext of this article.  Here we are in a world where we can buy a 650-pound, 100hp aircraft that can fly up to 4000km on a tank of car gasoline, get 75mpg at 240kph (straight-line) with 2 people and groceries/luggage aboard, navigate to within a few feet with built-in GPS, autopilot and other goodies, has a rocket-launched "airframe parachutte" system that can bring the entire airplane down gently if something goes wrong.  That's the world we live in today, and it is only getting better.

What kind of world would we live in without taxes when THIS kind of development can happen even under the extreme relentless burden of predators-DBA-government dumping endless taxes and regulations on everyone and everything?  Difficult to imagine.  But very fun to imagine, though rather depressing when we realize it won't happen until human beings finally eject human predators out the airlock and say good riddens.

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 04:30 | 2740313 Colonial Intent
Colonial Intent's picture

Do you WANT any government services?

No! especially those socialists in the army, navy, airforce, and cops and firemen, Kill them all.

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 04:27 | 2740309 Ar-Pharazôn
Ar-Pharazôn's picture

you completely miss the point i think

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 23:00 | 2742643 honestann
honestann's picture

The main point is, taxation is theft, and therefore BAD.  The aside point is to ask the question: do we really want any of the supposed services government provides as a justification for stealing from us?  The answer is NO.  And not only is the answer NO, we don't even want or need the most basic and popular of government services.  Even those are grossly counterproductive.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 05:19 | 2742932 Ar-Pharazôn
Ar-Pharazôn's picture

mate sorry if i have to disagree but the main point here is taxation in Switzerland ;)

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 02:02 | 2740224 Ar-Pharazôn
Ar-Pharazôn's picture

comments are full of bullshit, probably not even one of the idiots commenting here even passed from Switzerland.

 

come here to see our country, infrastructure, how we work and how we live. THEN GO A BIT MORE SOUTH, to this 3rd world country named Italy.

 

THEN YOU CAN SPEAK

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 04:12 | 2740305 etresoi
etresoi's picture

By your definition, I can speak.  I am an ex-pat from the fascist states, born in nyc and lived in california for many years.  I am also a vietnam vet and have spent many years observing the fascist government from the inside.

Perhaps I renounced citizenship in your country because I know too much.

Be careful, your jingoism can be harmful to your well being.

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 04:33 | 2740317 Ar-Pharazôn
Ar-Pharazôn's picture

and btw, everyone on the net has 2 degree in astrophysics and nuclear physics and is a former viet vet ;)

you know, i m Albert Einstein

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 04:29 | 2740311 Ar-Pharazôn
Ar-Pharazôn's picture

lol i live in Switzerland and i am a proud swiss.

here i can speak write and download everything i want without having fear my governemente come after me. can american do the same? no!

i live in the only country which is lowering his national debt while ALL the other countries are struggling not to lower but to contain the expenses.

Tell me what is wrong with Switzerland?

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 04:36 | 2740321 Colonial Intent
Colonial Intent's picture

Funny story

I was walking back from a party in zurich at 2am with a dozen swiss 30-40 yr olds.

I stopped at the crossing point and looked each way down the road, nothing for half a KM either side so i started to walk across, the others went nuts and started shouting at me and told me to wait for the green light to cross.

I said there is no traffic, they said thats not the point you have to wait for the green light before you cross, no exceptions.

They were so well conditioned that they couldnt even consider an alternative possibility of how to cross the road.

Thats social control perfected.

Funny old place is Zurich.

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 04:40 | 2740325 Ar-Pharazôn
Ar-Pharazôn's picture

Plus in Zurich they are germans like.... they are narrow minded and they do whatever they are told.... germannzzzzzzzz

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 04:49 | 2740335 Colonial Intent
Colonial Intent's picture

Am not dissing the swiss people, am just jealous.

Their quality of life more than makes up for any social detractions.

Admittedly if i had the millions to move there it would be to Bern or maybe Kandersteg.

 

 

 

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 04:52 | 2740339 Ar-Pharazôn
Ar-Pharazôn's picture

heheheheheh, you dont need milions! just find a job here if you can and all will be fine :)

expenses are quite high in the region of Bern BUT life quality standards are really high too, plus if you become swiss you can buy weapons :) :) :)

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 04:39 | 2740322 Ar-Pharazôn
Ar-Pharazôn's picture

as a swiss i would say you it's safety.

 

governement here is making everything it can to lower deaths on the roads.

 

my PERSONAL opinion is that you have choosen the wrong example.

 

Regards Ar-Pharazôn

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 04:32 | 2740316 etresoi
etresoi's picture

Perhaps I misunderstood your initial entry.

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 04:34 | 2740319 Ar-Pharazôn
Ar-Pharazôn's picture

no problems ;) it happens

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 03:23 | 2740199 honestann
honestann's picture

Taxation is theft by predators-DBA-government.  Anyone who manages to avoid an attempt to steal from them... well... good for them.  Starve the predatory beasts - all of them!

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 14:02 | 2738795 CaptainObvious
CaptainObvious's picture

"“Tax fraud is theft from the people,” she said."

Uh, no.  Tax is theft from the people.  Tax fraud is the people keeping what the hell they earned.  Thus, tax fraud is theft from the government, not the people.  And if governments weren't so damned big and bloated, they wouldn't need so much in taxes to support themselves.  Who's the real thief here, really?

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 03:17 | 2740275 fredquimby
fredquimby's picture

@CaptainObvious

Tax is theft from the people.  Tax fraud is the people keeping what the hell they earned.  Thus, tax fraud is theft from the government, not the people.

I think I will be T-shirting that one :))))

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 19:48 | 2739541 Hermel
Hermel's picture

Fully agree.

If tax fraud was theft, then wasteful spending is theft as well.

And to go one step further: what if someone who could earn 500k a year and pay 200k in taxes stops working and starts reading zero hedge all day? Shouldn't that be theft as well?

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 12:42 | 2738649 Ted Baker
Ted Baker's picture

The Swiss System? Ha dont make me laugh! A false economy, where crooks, liers and thieves are abundant....and those who believe unlike wise are detached from reality, never lived in Switzerland or have no clue about history or economics period. Wish u all the best of luck about your understanding of Switzerland as a country, you fools.

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 01:58 | 2740219 Ar-Pharazôn
Ar-Pharazôn's picture

you idiot 4 languages cohexisting together since more than 700 years. tell me another country like mine fucking idiot

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 12:50 | 2738666 etresoi
etresoi's picture

Please rewrite your statement so we can understand what you are trying to say and use the spell checker.

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 03:22 | 2740280 fredquimby
fredquimby's picture

Yes, it is definitely becoming more common that Americans don't speak English.

For example, water, does not have a "D" in the middle of it. Try asking for a waTer in the US and all you get is blank looks!! haha

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 15:26 | 2738927 Ted Baker
Ted Baker's picture

NO NEED FOR SPELL CHECKER IN THE US ONLY SOUTH AMERICANS NEED TO

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 00:08 | 2740123 DYS
DYS's picture

Stop lieing.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 12:04 | 2738574 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Taxes is that like Texas What do you mean taxes the trick they used to play on poor stupid people. Taxes went out through the NAFTA/GATT window with the globalism. The Bernanke give the money to bad people. No one pay him to do that kind of dirty tricks no more. Not willing to pay crook enemy. Middle class sacrifice to revolution now.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 11:59 | 2738571 blueridgeviews
blueridgeviews's picture

As usual the only people looking for more taxes are the socialist party. AKA... Democrat party in the US.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 12:37 | 2738636 GOLDTEETHSILVER...
GOLDTEETHSILVERFILLINGS's picture

Same, same. The only people wanting not to pay any taxes are the fascists. AKA... Republican party in the US. Touche!

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 20:22 | 2739652 masterinchancery
masterinchancery's picture

You are delusional, Goldbugger, Marc Rich, Timmy Geithner, and hordes of Obama bundlers and FOBs don't worry about no stinking taxes! That's for us little people who actually work instead of bleeding the system.

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 03:50 | 2740298 John_Coltrane
John_Coltrane's picture

And let's not forget that Corzine guy.  Wasn't he a dem. senator and governor?  And why isn't he in jail for stealing $1.2B of customer money?  When will Obama officially pardon him?   He makes Marc Rich and Geithner seem like small time pickpockets on any criminality scale.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 13:45 | 2738760 Gargoyle
Gargoyle's picture

Tim Geithner is a Republican?  Who'da thunk it.

 

 

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 13:49 | 2738767 akak
akak's picture

I had to laugh out loud when I saw the synopsis of your comment under "New Comments" on the ZH homepage, which was literally:

"Tim Geithner is a (Gargoyle)"

 

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 11:09 | 2738484 Vidar
Vidar's picture

Tax evasion is a moral duty.

The State is the center of evil in the modern world and to willingly supply it with funds is to participate in that evil.

Only when tax evasion rates reach 100% and the State is forced to shut down will the human race have the freedom that is its birthright.

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 04:50 | 2740337 Ar-Pharazôn
Ar-Pharazôn's picture

N O B O D Y can disagree with you!

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 01:40 | 2740204 honestann
honestann's picture

Exactly correct, except for the technicalities that confuse so many people, and keep this huge worldwide racket going.  To be precise.

#1:  "state", "government" and all related terms are FICTIONs.  In other words, those terms are real concepts in your real brain, but do not refer to anything in the external world/universe.  Even in what is called fundamental law, all organizations are called "fictitious entities".  While it is clearly a self-contradiction to call something "fictitious" an "entity" (or call any real entity a fictitious), the point is made --- the concept exists in your head, but there is no referrent in reality (exactly as with "SantaClaus", "EasterBunny", etc).

#2:  what does exist (besides insane concepts) are predators.  so if you must include terms like "government" in writing, please do so correctly so increasing numbers of humans begin to understand what's going on.  What I mean is, since there IS no state or government, stop referring to things that don't exist as if they are real, because you are doing the same as people who claim toys come from SantaClaus.  There IS no SantaClaus, because that is yet another fiction.  So if you must refer to "state" or "government", start being honest and correct, say "predators-DBA-state" or "predators-DBA-government" or "predators-DBA-corporation" or "predators-DBA-<central banks>" and so forth.

It should be clear.  You can't cheat something that doesn't exist, and you sure as hell aren't cheating predators when you don't offer yourself to them.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 20:24 | 2739656 masterinchancery
masterinchancery's picture

Agreed, "that government is best that governs least." Amazing how effective the national govt of Andy Jackson was with no domestic taxes and only a few thousand employees--effective for the people that is, not the kleptocracy and their cronies.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 11:27 | 2738491 falak pema
falak pema's picture

Care to expand on that?

I would understand better your diatribe against the state if I could understand the alternative argument as clearly; how the good of anarchy would prevail and save us from the evil that is state. 

Or is our freedom birthright to die in destructive chaos like the species of the Galapagos?

They are at 80% tax evasion is Greece, into 150%  GDP debt as a consequence. It aint freedom birthright in my book, nor in the reality of Athens streets! 

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 09:40 | 2740666 Republicae
Republicae's picture

We are being made to believe that "revenue" or the lack thereof, is the problem, it is NOT THE PROBLEM. WILD GOVERNMENT SPENDING is the problem, along with idiotic policies, government programs and promises that can never be sustained or kept and politicians that are either completely blind or ignorant of just what they are doing. We must understand that with government there will never be enough revenue, at least not with this current government structure that has overtly usurped its authority and power beyond the construction set forth by the Constitution. 

This government needs to be starved, that's why I have suggested that every single individual in this country simply submit a W2-T to terminate the voluntary withholding from their paychecks by their employers. By doing this, it will fall upon the IRS to actually physcially collect tax revenues from each American instead of the auto-collect system that is in place now. This would do two things, it would force the people of this country and the government to look at taxes in a totally different light. It would also force the government to look at the idea of revenues in a very different light, instead of a "given" the government would instantly be reminded that the taxes it confiscates from the People belong to the People and that their responsibility is to the People, not to the various special insterests, the military industrial complex, the corporatists, the various pet programs that stem from the minds of some bright politician or from those politicians who view this now-defunct government as the pinnacle of civilization. 

Imagine, if you will, that this government would actually have to work to collect taxes from each individual in this country, that it would have to actually tell the People we are collecting these hard-earned dollars of yours for very specific purposes. Instead of the People never really seeing the money that is taken from them each week, they would be reminded that the dollars they work so hard for are being taken from their pockets each year, that they would have to save that money to pay their taxes. The concept of taxation would take on a very different light under such circumstances, so would government spending. 

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 18:54 | 2738570 Republicae
Republicae's picture

A former head of one of the FED banks once said that under a fiat monetary system taxation was not necessary for revenue and there were only three reasons for income, gift and estate taxes. The first reason was for social control over the population, the second reason was for wealth redistribution and the third reason was for the enforcement of the legal tender laws making it possible for the government to issue and force the use of its fiat money.

Given that and the fact that if taxes were actually necessary for this government to operate, then how on earth could it run such huge deficits and unfunded future liabilities, there is a ruse being played on the people of this country and they have essentially swallowed it completely. The problem is not taxation for revenues, at least not in this country, the problem is the very character and nature of this government and its fiat monetary system which has effectively been used to subvert the Constitutional authority that limits it to very specific delegated powers.

As far as Greece is concerned, the fact that tax evasion is so high is a matter of an extremely long standing tradition in that country, but the reasons behind the debt/GDP being high has more to do with the fact that after the EURO was introduced the Greek government and people, as most people do, found it easy borrow without regard for the future under the easy monetary policies made available under that system.

Additionally, given the amount of fiat debt accumulated in this and other countries, even raising taxes to a 150% of the income of every American and corporation would not solve the debt problem...this country will default on its obligations, it has done it before in the 1930s and in 1971, it will be forced into default however, this time it will not be such an easy task for the entire socio-political structure of this country is so impregnated with debt that it will be difficult to see how it can survive as it is currently. Therein is the danger we face and a concerted effort must be advanced to make all preparations for such an event, decisions on what the future will look like, the type of government or governments that will arise from the ashes of this illegitimate form of bastardized government.

The option that may well appear to be more suitable is one that is rarely spoken of, but Disunion will become a far more viable option in the near future than it is considered presently. Either that or simply build a 50' high wall around the 10-mile square called Washington, D.C. and allow the politians to legislate only within that walled enclosure but no where else since the government has devolved into a feckless, dysfunctional organization.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 10:36 | 2738443 etresoi
etresoi's picture

Commenting as a Swiss citizen, I must explain some basic precepts that are unknown to citizens of the fascist states.

Income taxes and reporting of income are voluntary, in Switzerland.  Personal finances are private and the government has no right to private and personal information, nor are inquisive data systems tolerated.

Most Swiss people voluntarily pay their taxes, because they are satisfied with how the money is spent.  Unlike the fascist states, where 53% of government expenditure goes to an empire's killing machine, most Swiss government expenditures go to providing services within Switzerland.  Come to Switzerland and compare the country's infrastructure to the decaying mess in the fascist states.

Neither, Margret Kiener Nellen nor what you call the Swiss National Council, can change nor enact a law.  Switzerland is a democracy, which means that laws come up from the people, through referendum and vote, not top down as in the fascist states.

 

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 19:54 | 2739557 Roandavid
Roandavid's picture

Taxes are voluntary here in the U.S. as well.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid says so himself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7mRSI8yWwg

 

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 14:37 | 2738862 alvetto
alvetto's picture

you are of course very correct

 

 

 

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 12:24 | 2738601 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

Care to enlighten me? What fascist state expends 53% of government expenditure to its killing machine? Not the USA, that's for certain. Once upon a time, maybe, but not now.

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