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If The Guilty (Mortgage Mafia) Are Never Punished, Housing Will Never Recover

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If The Guilty (Mortgage Mafia) Are Never Punished, Housing Will Never Recover

And The Rent IS Too Damn High

Courtesy of Lee Adler of the Wall Street Examiner

Housing data continues to be mixed. Lagging closed sales data shows prices still declining. However, the most current sales data represents January closings, which were mostly sales that went under contract in November 2011. That tells us nothing about the current market. Real time listings data, which over time has correlated well with subsequently reported sales data, is actually up on a year over year basis. The supply side of the law of supply and demand is working. There’s less supply offered at these low levels and seller asking prices have firmed up because of that. But the demand side is still broken in spite of an apparent increase in buyer “willingness.”

Get the full sized chart with analysis in the Professional Edition

Most demand markers remain extremely weak. The number of buyers may have increased, but huge numbers of sales are falling through because of problems with financing. Appraisers, unwilling and unable to see prices leveling out, continue to apply downward time adjustments resulting in one third of contracts blowing up. The willingness to buy is there, but the ability to finance is not. At the same time, a high percentage of sales being all cash suggests that many buyers are sensing intrinsic value in some markets. Unfortunately for the market, value and price isn’t the same thing.

Demand depends largely on employment. While there are hints that the employment picture may be improving, it has not improved enough to cause a sustained increase in demand that would lead to a sustained rise in house prices.

The supply of existing houses on the market has been radically reduced, while builders continue to build. They got a boost in January with a surge in new home demand. It appears that the dead in the water new house market may have turned a corner of sorts, but it’s not clear yet whether a sustained uptrend will follow. Sales as measured by the Commerce Department are barely above record lows. Based on the current NAHB builder survey, February sales data should show a substantial increase.

Inventories of existing homes are way down, and that has helped inventory to sales ratios based on contracts, but one third of those contracts are blowing up due to low appraisals and credit rejections on other grounds. Appraisers applying downward time adjustments to comparable sales exacerbates a problem that might no longer exist if it were not for the low appraisals. It’s a chicken and egg problem. Appraisers won’t stop adjusting comparable sales down in price until the price downtrend stops, and the downtrend won’t stop until appraisers stop using negative time adjustments.

So while there appears to be an increase in the willingness of buyers to buy, there’s no increase in effective demand, or the ability to close the sale, and hence no real improvement in the supply demand imbalance in spite of sharp reductions in supply.

One half of the problem, that of oversupply, is well on the way to being solved. The problem of financing deals so that they can close is not. The same mortgage lenders who caused the problem in the first place by being too easy for too long, are now exacerbating the problem by being too tight.

Their stupidity and short-sighted self dealing are boundless, in the end only harming the market they are supposed to facilitate in the due course of the conduct of their business. A little honesty would have gone a long way. Unfortunately, that’s a non existent quality among the big mortgage banks. They’re crooks, and they continue to screw the system as they seek to cover their crimes. The only way out of what is in its essence a criminal morass is to punish the guilty. The only solution is to put a few thousand of the industry’s top players in jail. That’s not happening, and it’s not going to happen. Until there’s punishment of bad behavior, the bad behavior will only be reinforced.

While lenders ironically screw the system by now rejecting deals that they should make, the shadow inventory problem grows like a cancer in the mortgage and banking criminal enterprises. As I have discussed in the past, and have reposted below, it is less of a direct problem for the housing market. A growing portion of that shadow inventory has become, or is in the process of becoming, non marketable. To the market, the shadow inventory boogieman is just that, a boogieman, not a real threat. But to the criminal enterprise itself, it constantly siphons off its lifeblood, and limits the ability of the mortgage mafiosi to skim and divert fictitious profits into their own pockets.

Ultimately, if people lose confidence and the financial system implodes, then it’s game over and prices will collapse again. For purposes of this analysis, I will assume that that’s not going to happen. As long as the Fed and foreign central banks keep their criminal crony zombie banks on life support they can bleed off the losses over a generation or two and the land of make believe will persist. It will never prosper, but it will persist, while those running the scam continue to stuff their pockets.

A real bottom in prices and the beginnings of a housing recovery will require a sustained increase in effective demand coupled with continued reductions in supply. The supply reductions are happening in a real and material way. There are indications of some increase in demand, including large percentages of cash sales and a surge in contracts signed in January, as well as possibly the beginnings of increasing employment. But these seeds of demand growth have to be cultivated and harvested as closed sales, and it’s not clear when or if the dysfunctional criminal banking system will ever be able to fully perform that function. So while there is probably less risk in housing now due to supply reductions that’s a long way from being in a sustained recovery. That requires consistent effective demand, which is being broadly stifled by the massive effort in the industry and in government to sustain the criminal enterprise.

As for the financial system itself, it will remain under pressure for as long as it takes to recognize the reduced value of housing collateral, a process which, in spite of 5 years of declining prices, hasn’t even begun. I’ve long estimated that the collateral value loss is in the vicinity of 30% nationally, and a report out today from CoreLogic more or less verified that. That there will be more foreclosures, and that the banking system will remain a dysfunctional, disreputable cesspool are givens. As long as that’s the case there will be a ceiling on how far prices can rise, even with wave after wave of malfeasant central bank money printing.

 

Get regular updates the machinations of the Fed, Treasury, Primary Dealers and foreign central banks in the US market, in the Fed Report in the Professional Edition, Money Liquidity, and Real Estate Package. Click this link to try WSE’s Professional Edition risk free for 30 days!

 

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Sun, 03/04/2012 - 04:03 | 2221292 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

TIMING.  All these comments can be true in a short run. I doubt Bankers will have power over the medium to long term. There are elemental forces building and just as a tsunami coupled with an earthquake made Fukushima spring the boundaries of safety its designers had envisaged so what is coming will shatter the cosy complacency.

Things will happen that noone can imagine. They may be horrific but they are unlikely to be in the form of a telegenic politician uttering platitudes on a tv screen. That is show business not real bidness.......so watch out and think about what happens when states secede or when energy gets rationed. 9/11 came from nowhere but was helped by the weird idea that a Goldman banker could fly first class on a plane dreaming of his mega bonus with his security checks done by an operative earning less than McDonalds staff. That is really interesting if you get chance to reflect as the big building approaches.

There is no going back - there has to be a New World - and it might not be one for TV audiences and Hollywood - it might be ruthless and simply break chunks off existing society and structures in salami tactics

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 14:18 | 2221967 covert
covert's picture

the lack of concern for financial justice will turn this country into a banana republic and slave pen.

http://expose2.wordpress.com

 

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 12:36 | 2221726 trav7777
trav7777's picture

the OP is idiotic.  RECOVER?

It's like saying Barry Bonds should 'recover' his 2001 performance numbers in HRs when those were driven by artificial factors.

Housing HAS recovered - recovered to where it should have been after a dangerous bubble.

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 15:30 | 2222155 BlackholeDivestment
BlackholeDivestment's picture

...really Trav? What is the benchmark for your housing claim? ,,,and yes that is my down arrow, but, as you are smarter than me on ...well, most likely all the market issues (which is why people come here) you could enlighten me. My benchmark is medium single familiy income. How does that find a home at zero interest 2012, compared to say 1999? Am I missing something? Can they even afford a home or rent? Don't the losers, who live in that 1999 60K Condo in the major urban areas, which are now 200K+- at Zero Interest, don't they represent theft, the ''moral hazard''? Where do the medium income people live now? You know, those national medium income level people at 46K? Can they afford to rent that 200+- 2012 zero interest one bedroom next door? LMAO. ...or do they have foodstamps, subsidized property tax/rent and room mates? LMAO. Please, enlighten me, the oxygen to my brain has been cut off by the Beltway error, oops, air. Lol. What would the national medium home price need to be for the national medium single family income? Lol? Also, just curious, would your benchmark include future higher interest rates? ,,,and if so, would the single family be able to afford the rent or would they be able to get rid of some of the strangers that live with them in their tent? Lol. 

Maybe I just read you wrong? Lol

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 13:02 | 2224229 dataanalytics
dataanalytics's picture

Well, the basic formula would have home prices at about 140k for a 46k medium income- roughly estimated. I think median price is at about 160k right now? Maybe a bit lower.Still not low enough.

But certainly in places like where I live, there is nothing below 200k for a
1 br condo (where I rent) and small 2 br home is about 375k, min. While 3 br's start at 400k- that are run down and in need of updating. A decent home would cost 550K and up to over 1to 2m. There are many homes nearby me in the 3-5-7m range as well.

The kicker is that there are many in my area who only make 30k to 60k per year and there is NO way they can afford to buy here. This is why I think the median home price is somewhat misleading. It really depends on the state and county. I think county and township prices are a better indicator of true housing affordability.

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 01:48 | 2221045 BlackholeDivestment
BlackholeDivestment's picture

My new T-Shirt

 

 

                                         Chairsatan Zero Interest Policy: 

                                      HOMELESSNESS AND UNEMPLOYMENT

                                                            THE

                                  NATURAL CORRECTION FOR MORAL HAZARD.

 

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 01:03 | 2221038 JohnKozac
JohnKozac's picture

Housing won't recover in ten years. They are still selling zero down houses and former zero doan neighborhoods are turning to slums.....no mowing, too-many-to-count rental units, etc.....

They need to let market forces work so real buyers who can afford a house do the buying and pay 20% down. When a person has some stake in his house he will take care of it...not trash it or just walk away.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 22:34 | 2220773 markalpha
markalpha's picture

This article doesn't mention shadow inventory. The banks are creating artificial demand by keeping millions of properties off the market. They are also selling real estate in bulk to hedge funds and requiring them to rent out the properties for 3-5 years to suppress inventory. The housing market will not rebound until we work through the inventory. At first in the fall of 2008 they released their inventory freely and prices fell 25 percent in 3 months. They abrubtly halted foreclosures to keep the market from free falling. the Government covers for the banks by blaiming this price fixing on Robo signings. I think this is just a clever way to delay inventory to the market. Its effect has allowed people to stay in their houses without paying their mortgages for 3 or more years. Since people aren't paying their mortgages they have extra money to buy iphones and ipads. This boosts GDP and everything seems to improve. Employers are now hireing due to stronger demand, but what happens when this manipulation ends and people are forced to pay their mortgages or they are kicked out and have to pay rent? Can this manipulation last foreever?

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 10:58 | 2221579 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

no it cannot last forever. the banks need fresh lending to "get the ball moving" both per Wall Street and DC's instructions (profitability). Soon (I think a matter of weeks myself) real estate auctions and cash sales for just about everything that was purchased "pre-employment" days are going to sweep the USA. deals will be had in the open on a scale never before seen in human history and governments that are flat broke will suddenly be demanding to know "who stole the money?" obvioulsy "it's all been stolen" so at that point it really won't matter...and borrowing costs will soar for various state and municipal governments layoff's on a scale never seen before in the history of American Government sweep the land. "Lording over this process" will be mulititude of Federal Agencies all set up to fight the war on terror--with the Pentagon itself at the forefront as they are the biggest "Federal Spender" both currently and going forward within the Continental United States itself. "They will start arresting people." There's no where to hide in this age of the internet. it would be better really if most of these clowns simply turned themselves in right now. anywho..."a war only accelerates the process" since "we'll all be working for the Federal Government at that point."

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 19:34 | 2220482 Spartaguy
Spartaguy's picture

Why must we pretend to live in a "free" nation??

 

 

http://www.aintmymedia.com/

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 17:41 | 2220292 Mike Cowan
Mike Cowan's picture

. . . as bad as the 1929 crash . . .

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 14:29 | 2219876 yellowsub
yellowsub's picture

But NAR said the prices have bottom and is a good time to buy! 

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 14:29 | 2219875 AndTheRest
AndTheRest's picture

Wrong.  A completely faulty analysis.

 

Punishing the "guilty" won't automagically give young people in America jobs, or savings, or a networth above 4 figures.

 

Nor will it create a stable job market where people believe they can maintain a steady income for 30 years to meet their mortgage obligations.

 

Etc.

 

This is not "unwillingness" it is inability.  Young people have no money, and young people/new families are the driving force of the overall housing market.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 22:17 | 2220742 Lee Adler- The ...
Lee Adler- The Wall Street Examiner's picture

I did not say, nor did I intend to imply that punishing the guilty would fix the housing problem. It is a sine qua non, one of several necessary factors, of which you pointed out a few. But you could have all the others, and the market could still not recover because the moral issue has never been addressed, and probably never will be in most of our lifetimes. The crooks and their cronies run the show. 

Without an uprising of moral outrage, we are doomed. Therefore, we are doomed. 

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 14:53 | 2219925 CoolBeans
CoolBeans's picture

Some jail time is a good start towards re-building trust in America and its markets (of all kinds).  I would suspect most people feel that without jail time / adequate punishments, the system must be rigged ...so there is no point in stepping into it.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 15:13 | 2219964 AndTheRest
AndTheRest's picture

You have far more faith in the intellect and rationality of your fellow man than I do.  I see most Americans as the same stupid consumer sheep they were before the housing bubble burst.  Only now they can't get massive home loans that they can't possibly repay.

 

You really think the TV watching public doesn't want to buy McMansions and over priced townhomes right now?  You really think America's women aren't watching TV and being brainwashed into wanting the giant pristine TV home with the Mercedes in the drive way?

 

Americans are consumers.  It is only our ability to consume that has been restricted.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 14:01 | 2219798 JustACitizen
JustACitizen's picture

We really do live in "interesting times".

Our President and his gang of bought dogs will do nothing to restore the rule of law - like for instance - prosecute the financial criminals. Contracts are not worth the paper they are written on.

It would not have been any different had John McCain been elected.

The housing marketplace as a vibrant market has been destroyed. Consumers cannot begin to guess the actual value of a home/property. The "credit scoring" morons have made it impossible for so-called "loan officers" to assess risk. The title insurance folks - well - they have a "situation" on their hands... Our "betters" are walking away from multi-million dollar homes after living there payment free for 18-24 months. Throw in the fact that incomes are at best stagnant for a significant number of people...

Helicopter Ben and the rest of the marones think that a manipulated buoyant stock market is going to fix this. ROFLMAO!

We are f'd.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 13:59 | 2219794 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

"There are indications of some increase in demand, including large percentages of cash sales and a surge in contracts signed in January, as well as possibly the beginnings of increasing employment."

You are plagiarizing Barry Soetoro, there Lee...

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 10:59 | 2220878 Lee Adler- The ...
Lee Adler- The Wall Street Examiner's picture

Removed my comment. Turns out that what I was responding to was something even more vile, pathetic, and degenerate than I originally thought. Outtahere.  

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 13:55 | 2219790 dataanalytics
dataanalytics's picture

I have to take exception to many points by Mr. Adler. His lambasting of appraisers is off base, as usual. The industry always attempts to blame the valuation of OVER-PRICED housing assets, always.

I've been appraising since 2002 and the amount of deflection from agents/brokers and bankers is amazing. New home demand rising? Based on what? The Commerce Dept.,? LOL. There are probably
7 to 9 million total homes available in the U.S. Demand is flat, period.

Banks are holding undisclosed amounts of distressed properties, which they are NOT releasing. Presure from the all mighty lobbying nar and the government has held the banks in check- so far.
60+ day delinquencies are increasing. Defaults are increasing,
which will only serve to increase total inventory.

As prices continue to fall, NOT due to appraisals, but rather a glut of supply, negative equity widens, which will in turn force many to walk away...and gues what? More inventory on the market...

Adler's article is nothing more than BS in the housing market.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 12:51 | 2219682 Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

Article is correct, but even if the crooks went to jail (note: they won't. D.C. is bribed, but God I wish they would!), the housing market is toast for two macro-level reasons:

1. interest rates, being artificially suppressed, is the only thing keeping the housing market from going into total free-fall. This will change, but no one knows when. Personally, I thought it would have happened by now. Regardless, we will revert back to the mean. And when it does, prices will fall. People buy payments....not houses.

2. Demographics. Unless you want to count illegals and their putting 10 people in a house, young buyers today are not only broke, but indebted MASSIVELY. I see it firsthand, over and over again.  This is why they are being "disqualified" because THEY ARE.  Student debt, credit card debt, auto loan debt.....and that is when they graduate. Anyone with 20% down?  Don't make me laugh.  You tell me how they are gonna afford to buy your McMansion that you want to sell so you can live out your days in Shady Acres.  Existing homes ARE the RE market. New home sales are almost irrelelvant, and make for cute headlines. 

 I should add that the FASB rule changes also keep the banks themselves alive. Nothing like being able to cook the books legally. That is why the shadow inventory is hidden and massive. The banks will let this slowly bleed out. And commercial RE is even worse. They don't care. You and I will be picking up the tab for the mess they made for many years to come.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 14:16 | 2219840 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

The market has to be toast.

Repeat of the previous comment: your point 2 was foreseeable a long time ago.

Part of the US citizen social covenant is that one would be able to buy a house if one shuts up.

Increasing the housing inventory was necessary to provide with affordable houses people who are not in such a good position to buy one.

The RE bubble was engineered to serve this purpose.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 13:55 | 2219781 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

+1... Dingleberry... Good points.

What about the baby boomers selling assets into the market for the next 16 years as they retire and downsize. Census Bureau says 66% of people between 65 and 75 years old change addresses. 68% 0f people between 55 and 65 are home owners...

Guess what at least 45% of baby boomers will be selling as they change addresses?

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 15:25 | 2219991 AndTheRest
AndTheRest's picture

I think those numbers are going to change because there ARE NO BUYERS.  Most Boomers will be dying in the homes they live in currently.  Juan and Juanita from Juarez don't have the dinero.  I guess you better quadruple Juan's pay for doing your landscaping and triple Juanita's pay for being your "living assistant" so they can buy your house and you can move to the Sun belt like you always dreamed.

 

Homes, by all logical reasoning, should be depreciating assets.  In Japan most dwellings are torn down after 20 or 30 years and something new is built.  That's because the Japanese aren't retarded enough to believe that an old dingy home that has all kinds of weird smells and stains all over the place goes UP in value vis-a-vis a new home.  But you were all sold a lie.  The lie of ever increasing home values.

 

American Boomers have not yet begun to feel the pain of what they have wrought.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 11:19 | 2219562 markar
markar's picture

The shadow inventory is truly the wild card here. In this S Ca market the inventory on the market went from 40% distressed(Short sale/REO) to a little over 20% in the last 18 months. Did all the underwater homes just vaporize? 

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 10:34 | 2219526 bugs_
bugs_'s picture

with respect to buyer willingness there is also the worry concerning the legal basis for your title.  how do you know its really yours?  does the paperwork leading to your purchase contain serious flaws?  unfortunately it probably does.  you can buy title insurance - but is title insurance another form of phoney derivative that you won't be able to collect on like CDS?  probably.

 

so you've got financing problems, local government mandates on the "owners", and at the end of the day you aren't even sure you actually own what you think you own.

 

yes they broke the housing market and they will never fix it without the big reset.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 15:27 | 2220003 AndTheRest
AndTheRest's picture

And the mortgage contracts that state the home builder gets a 1% cut of ALL future sales for the next 99 years.  Google it.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 14:00 | 2219797 CoolBeans
CoolBeans's picture

+100, Bugs.

It is amazing the stories out there of people who have purchased and sold homes who have been hit w/a bank issue from the past due to scrambled titles, bank records, etc.

Sadly, those are just the ones we see in the papers.  I wonder how many are out there...and how many more will rear their ugly heads.

Don't buy into a broken system.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 13:45 | 2219774 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

Tyler: Where is the +5 Button for bugs_??

BTW bugs_: Cheer up! You will always own the mortgage... the debt...

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 10:25 | 2219522 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

Why would a young family buy a house with a thirty year mortgage today?  The probability of an extended layoff during that period is so high that they would lose the house.  We can not trust our politicians not to sell our jobs down the drain to Asia for a few campaign contributions. 

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 10:11 | 2219516 blueridgeviews
blueridgeviews's picture

When a bank can mark their assets to whatever they want then they are in no trouble of being insolvent. Long live the printing machines and the phony accounting standards! sarcasm.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 05:43 | 2219372 non_anon
non_anon's picture

i miss Marla and zero radio, where are you?

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 21:00 | 2220607 ISEEIT
ISEEIT's picture

That Woman musta had other things to do. Seriously? I wish she had stuck around, but I bet she doesn't fit into many spaces particulary well. Hope she is living her life on her terms though.

What a Spirit & what a mind.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 19:02 | 2220419 Hulk
Hulk's picture

They went under, underground...

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 05:28 | 2219365 honestann
honestann's picture

Game over.  America is finished... past tense.  The predators have total control, and will never willingly give up their total control.  The masses are a bunch of two legged sheep, and will not eliminate the predators.  As a result, only total morons will have any significant or long-term business dealings in the USSA.

Anyone awake at the wheel will either leave the USSA, or avoid doing anything that puts them at the mercy of the predators-that-be or predator-class.  That means they will only rent dwellings, and never purchase them.  Because they know, once they purchase a dwelling, they are totally and forever screwed.  The predators can and will change the rules, the property tax rates and conditions, and add endless property-owner requirements until all property ends up being transferred to the predators in some way, shape or form.

Actually, any property that can be taxes is already property of the taxer, not the so-called "owner".  So, with the tiny few exception of the vanishingly few "allodial titles", land and dwellings are already owned by the predators-that-be and predator-class.

Anyone with a shred of sense or self-respect will refuse to participate in self-destroying frauds, especially when it serves to strengthen the predators who prey upon them and everyone else.  That's the future of the USSA --- everyone with half a brain will leave, and the remainder are blatant slaves and morons who are willing to serve, defend, sanction, support and finance the predators who prey upon them.  Only human beings are stupid enough to do that.  Morons.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 14:52 | 2219919 AndTheRest
AndTheRest's picture

I'm already executing my exit strategy.  And I'm not the only one.

 

Tick tock.  Time's running out.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 14:03 | 2219802 CoolBeans
CoolBeans's picture

+101.

I just need to know the best and safest place to run to w/a family. 

Oh, and I have to be able to own guns.  That's at the top of my list.

Seems like for now it is best to continue the withdrawal from the "Matrix" until we can figure out the next step (where we go, etc.)

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 15:32 | 2219946 AndTheRest
AndTheRest's picture

Anywhere other than the U.S. that you, as an American citizen, can have guns is far more dangerous than the U.S.  For the few criteria given I think a small Canadian town or outside the city limits meets your needs perfectly.  You can't get guns until you're nationalized though.

 

I'm headed to (mainland) Europe for the following reasons:

1. The E.U. may be a police state but it isn't a murderously fascist one like the U.S.  I.E. the police probably won't murder me in Europe while in the U.S...

 

2. I like their gumption, protesting ACTA, protesting austerity, protesting the banks.  It shows their will isn't completely broken like the will of the American sheeple.

 

3. I see their demographic trends as an opportunity for a young person, not a liability.  Old people dying with too few youngsters to replace them may mean the death of the socialist welfare state, but it also means plenty of job openings, cheap housing, etc.

 

4. I want to live amongst other white people.  My entire life in America I have been demonized as a white male.  This country has made it clear that it doesn't want me here.  By law I am discriminated against (affirmative action).  They tell me I must pay for the injustices committed by long dead people vaguely genetically related to me.  They tell me that I have benefited from those injustices (though I can't fathom how).  And I have had many, many negative experiences involving "minorities" such that I do not wish to be within thousands of miles of large concentrations of them.

 

5. I like their privacy laws, "right to be forgotten" on the internet, ban of the TSA scanners, liberal views on prostitution, marijuana, age of consent, drinking age, etc.

 

6. Culture, food, drink, lifestyle.

 

7. I don't mind socialism and paying higher taxes if the government receiving those taxes isn't a fascist state that uses my tax money to fund warrantless telecommunications surveillance, aerial surveillance drones, murderous SWAT teams, secret no-fly and watch "lists", the TSA, and all the other trappings of the police state.

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 10:11 | 2221527 bank guy in Brussels
bank guy in Brussels's picture

Note to Americans: Surprise! We actually have lots of private civilian guns in Europe.

Germany: 25 million civilian privately owned handguns, shotguns, rifles.
France: 19 million civilian privately owned handguns, shotguns, rifles.
And so on.

We do not carry them around, or have as high gun ownership rates as in the US, but 100 million plus private guns in Europe is definitely significant.

Yes, the crazy UK Brit government that confiscated all privately owned handguns in the 1990s - But the Brit regime has crazy moments indeed. It is not like that on the Continent. Here we know the Nazis can come back, they were here before. Guns stay in European people's hands and homes.

Facts of gun ownership and policies in countries around the world:
http://www.gunpolicy.org/

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 09:48 | 2221511 honestann
honestann's picture

I must disagree strongly with #4, but I must give my reasons.  I have spent considerable time in extreme boonies where almost everyone, and sometimes everyone around me is a non-gringo.  They treat me fine.  In fact, they treat me better than fine.

Why?  Two reasons.  In many parts of the world, they have not been brainwashed for 3 generations that "white people are evil".  Second, and most important by far, is that I have great respect for these people, and they can see that in my facial expressions, my attitudes, my actions.  I don't have respect for these people because they're non-gringo, I have respect for them because they live a largely to completely self-sufficient lives in extremely remote parts of the high andes, or a remote desert, or other place where the vast majority of them have never experienced what westerners call "civilization".

The fact is, the world they live in is real civilization, not the predator-controlled ethical sewers that are western cities and suburbs.  And when I say "they live in civilization", what I mean is... they are civil - almost all of them.  And overall, people in the west are not.  Which is civilization?  A high tech prision, or simple but benevolent and entirely voluntary interactions with other individuals?  My answer, for myself, is that civilization is civil behavior - period.  And regardless of how you define that word, I prefer to live near civil people than near shopping malls, any and every day of the week.

So I think you have a basis for the attitude you express in #4, but I believe you are misguided because of the sample of people you draw that conclusion from.  Frankly, I honestly don't even notice people are a different race than me in daily life, and even more frankly, I don't believe they're a different race.  We are the human race, we are all individuals, and we all judge each other on the basis of our behavior, not some totally irrelevant characteristic like shoe-type, hat-type, skin-color, jewelry-type, accent-type, etc.

Anyway, based upon the fact that you don't mind being a slave as long as your masters are less egregious in their practices, I suspect you are better off moving to Europe.

And anyone who has a bit wider life-experience and an open attitude will think more like me.  I am always shocked that people who mostly think like me simply cannot bring themselves to move to what they would call "the extreme boonies".  Do they really value shopping convenience so much that they put up will the endless crudeness, noise, chaos and inconveniences of cities and suburbs?  They claim to, but I think some of them think living in the "extreme boonies" means they have to live in a cave or something, with no indoor plumbing, etc.  Nothing could be further from the truth.  You could live that way in the extreme boonies if you want, and your neighbors would accept you.  But even the locals and natives mostly don't live this way, so give up the assumptions.  It is perfectly possible to live a super-comfortable, high-tech life in the boonies.  I do.  Not fancy or ostentatious, just clean, comfortable and with all basic conveniences.

Anyway, I just felt I had to mention that race is irrelevant.  Just because some in the "civilized world" have been brainwashed to act a certain way doesn't mean that behavior is a function of race.  It is a function of brainwashing by the predators-that-be and predator-class.  Nothing more.  If you look at history objectively, you'll find endless examples of "white people" acting in horrific ways.  Look at how they treated the american indians for example, including those tribes that were benevolent and not at all aggressive.  Look at the Spanish Inquisition and endless other examples along those lines.  Just open your eyes, be honest, and notice the fact that no race has any inherent monopoly on benevolence nastiness or any other aspect of human behavior, either good or bad.

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 10:41 | 2221543 AndTheRest
AndTheRest's picture

Read this part again, "And I have had many, many negative experiences involving "minorities" such that I do not wish to be within thousands of miles of large concentrations of them."

 

Your experiences differ from mine.  Women are treated differently than men as well, generally because men see every woman they come across as a potential mate and are (usually) taught to respect women.  When those same non-white men that treated you so well come across a lone white man they see a competitor and a target, and their instinct is to destroy him.  Most women who have lived in Hawaii love it.  Most men I've spoken to said they were attacked and beaten and afraid to go out in public in a group of less than 4 because otherwise they'd be attacked on sight.

 

I'd wager you haven't spent much time in Philadelpha, Baltimore, Chicago, Atlanta, or D.C.  If you had, you'd know the truth about race and just how "relevant" it truly is.  But, again, your experiences differ from mine.  My experiences indicate that non-whites not only hate me, but want me dead.  My experiences indicate that America and most of the West hates white men and wants to hobble us from birth with the injustices of affirmative action and anti-white male bashing in the education system. 

 

History shows that "diverse" nations end up Balkanized and engage in tribal warfare and ethnic cleansing as soon as the government weakens enough to allow it.  Look at Haiti, look at South Africa, look at Rhodesia, and of course the Balkans.  There are no long standing "diverse nations."  Diversity, multi-culturalism, and mass immigration into white nations is a grand experiment, part of the New World Order, and destined to fail.  Look at current national borders, they are largely defined along ethnic lines.  Do we truly think this grand American experiment will last?  Already people in Texas, Montana, and elsewhere want to secede from the tyranny of Washington, New York, and San Francisco.  Diversity causes Division.

 

I wish I could have such a naive world view as yours but, unfortunately, that is not the life I have led.  As a woman you will never understand the innate male instinct to murder all competing males that are not of his race on sight.  I understand it and non-white males understand it.  But the inability of men and women to comprehend one another's world view is an entirely different subject.

Fri, 03/09/2012 - 23:58 | 2242404 honestann
honestann's picture

I get the impression you live in Hawaii.  I lived in Hawaii for the last 20 years, until I left the USSA to escape the neo-nazis (government).  I had no such experiences, and neither did male folk I know.  Of course none of us have any negative feelings about native hawaiians, which they can tell by our natural friendliness with them.  Given that, they return the favor (friendliness).  However, I do not doubt that arrogant fancy-ass gringos acting like they're god's gift to the universe AND inherently superior to other races... get treated badly.  I sure don't want to be anywhere near arrogant jerks like that either, and yes, most with that bad attitude in my experience have been gringos.

The Hawaii you talk about... I never saw it, or anything remotely like that.  Of course, I don't drink or hang around bars, so maybe life is different in those settings.  In general, bars are not a great place to hang out.

I grew up through high school near Phili, but not inside it.  After HS, I split for the west (mostly rural parts of arizona and california), where often I was in a definite minority (sometimes american indians, sometimes mexicans were a majority).  Frankly, I had no more trouble with them than other gringos, though it is a fact that a certain small percentage of human beings of all types are aggressive jerks.

I hate cities and I refuse to live in cities, so I wouldn't reject out of hand any terrible reports about living inside a large city --- anywhere on earth.

Yes, the government does have some anti-white-man policies, but I don't think that's what we're talking about, because that's pretty uniform throughout the entire country.

America is FINISHED.  However, it has NOTHING to do with immigrants.  The entirely of america WAS immigrants, and though certain frictions have always existed, diversity didn't destroy america.  The predators-that-be and predator-class did (central banks, large financial institutions, large corporations).

I do not believe diversity causes division... except in morons too stupid to realize that utterly irrelevant things do not matter (hair color, eye color, skin color, accent, where their ancestors lived, etc).  I and other intelligent people I know actually enjoy diversity.  I for one have found many interesting ideas from diverse people, and I have adopted several (and not just chinese and other natural herbs).

I believe it is YOU who have a naive world view (as in "limited").  I accept that your experiences are real (probably from big cities), but if you read my post again, you'll see that I was talking about people in very different places.  Not center-city in big city hell-holes in the USSA, where everyone gets treated badly.  I was explaining how people of other races in the [extreme] boonies in other countries are hands-down more wonderful, helpful and just plain kind and considerate than plain average middle-to-upper-class americans.  I doubt you have any significant experience in these other places (outside the USSA), so while your experience may be as you stated, they are not representative of what I experienced ELSEWHERE.

Which proves the point I was trying to make.  And that point was... it is not the diversity that causes a problem, it is the way you treat people that causes the problem.  I can just tell that your experiences have made it IMPOSSIBLE for you to meet new people in the high andes or mongolia... and have a genuine friendly smile and behavior when you greet them --- IF you're even willing to greet them.  If you treat people like most arrogant or fearful americans treat others, especially others of what you consider "diversity", you cannot repeat my experiences.  Most likely in the extreme boonies they'd just leave you alone and not bother you as long as you don't mess with them.  Attitude is something animals and "simple, natural, honest people" in the boonies can tell pretty quickly, almost instinctively.  If they see you disrespect them and/or fear them, you start out in a ditch.  But that's your fault, or at least your weakness, and definitely your problem, not theirs.

So stay in the USSA, enjoy being under the thumb of the most egregious predators-that-be and predator-class on the face of the earth, and remain in that cage that is your attitude towards others with utterly irrelevant differences.  While you do that, I'll enjoy my new friends here in the extreme boonies... except they already seem like old friends.

As for your comments about males... WOW.  The males I know bear ZERO resemblance to that, and they never behave in that way whatsoever.  I asked three of them who would definitely be honest with me, and they too thought your characterization was totally wacko.  And just from a logical point of view, why on earth would males of a DIFFERENT race be more threatening when those of the same race are clearly more likely to be your competition?  Your ideas are WACKO, but probably do reflect some very sicko people you unfortunately happened to know in your lifetime.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 19:39 | 2220493 dogbreath
dogbreath's picture

looking at how tribal many people are i totally agree with #4 also.   multi cultural canada is not as ghettoized as the U.S. but the flood of immigrants is diluting the character of the nation.  globally white is 7% of the population.  our culture is gone.    might i add that canadian women are skanks compared to european women.  boob jobs are a north american thing. 

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 18:18 | 2220346 BeetleBailey
BeetleBailey's picture

Well stated. I wish you well my friend. I completely concur with #4  - and will "plagerize" your exact words to describe to others why I also am on a path to renounce here.

#5 is also spot-on.

 

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 15:52 | 2220046 CoolBeans
CoolBeans's picture

Most interesting.  Thanks for the inupt!

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 13:43 | 2219773 goforgin
goforgin's picture

Very well put. I too has suspected for some time that the problem in US is the middle class. Jesse American Cafe blog had a great interview with a researcher who found out that there were no 'psychopaths' at the helm of US corporations; but, the number of psychopaths in the lower executive levels was 5 x higher than in population.

The number of ZH posters impervious to the rising poverty in US is just staggering.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 14:06 | 2219806 CoolBeans
CoolBeans's picture

No psychoaths at the top?  Probably because they were are sociopaths. 

They seem fairly normal at times...on the exterior  -- but they have no conscience.  They can pillage all day long and sleep perfectly fine at night.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 14:20 | 2219856 goforgin
goforgin's picture

I think you're right. The difference between a sociopath and a psychopath( I think) is the the later lacks any empathy for his fellow human beings.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 15:54 | 2220048 CoolBeans
CoolBeans's picture

You got it.  Total lack of empathy.

Sociopaths can be highly intelligent and functional. 

Dictionary pic:  See: B. Owebama, Jamie Dimon, et. al.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 11:33 | 2219580 Lucius Corneliu...
Lucius Cornelius Sulla's picture

Europe is worse.

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