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As we have previously documented, the U.S. has for decades supported Al Qaeda and affiliated terrorist groups in Afghanistan, Bosnia, Libya, Syria, Iran and around the world.
The violence taking place today in Sudan, Libya, and elsewhere is being carried out by the same boneheads we’ve supported:
Nice job, morons …
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You didn't build that!!!
As a fellow small business owner i green u.
That obama comment really got up your nose didnt it?
Did you work hard to build your business or something??
Big D,
Good to talk again. I've started two in fact, had one fail on its/my/own (location and regs/taxes/hassle, moved on) and quit the other for a better offer in corporate, still standing after mass layoffs. Still knowing, I could re-open that last one tomorrow if I do get laid off and pare it down to just me...with no obligations to any other.
I like that idea better than most can understand. As a small business owner you know as well as I there is the freedom to tell anyone to get bent...take your business elsewhere...or...realizing the potential, not.
Very liberating...I loved it ;-)
Yes, it pissed me off. The same way it pissed off every other person who EVER risked their own capital, their time, went without in order to pay others first because they should not be penalized for MY business, just to have some skinny little punk who never had a career in the private sector in his life tell ME...I didn't build that...yes, it stuck in my craw.
He is an incompetent pretender issuing forth platitudes on shit he has no comprehension of.
u2 mate
it looks like you have a little follower who gives u reds, you maybe didnt know u were so influenctial.
i think small business is the lifeblood of a country. anyone can give it a go and usually hard work will take you where you want to be, as long as the government or the jobsworth type dont have it in for you.
but you can see why its hated by the obummas... less control by them.
Oh yes, I have a couple of "love birds" that follow me around...they apparently think I'm some sorta large threat. I think it was Churchill who said...paraphrasing...You've made enemies, good. You've stood for something in your life...lol.
To your point and something much more germaine to everyone and us. Yes, the small business is the life blood of all countries. Its a wonderful, exhilarating (terrifying at slow times) experience that everyone should have the opportunity to partake in. Its a shame most sit around and ask someone else to provide a product or service so they can be employed by them...or worse, sit around and say whoa is me, help me SNAP card King...lol.
Like I said, I have had a business that failed for many reasons...it wasn't the end of my world.
I don't suffer the professionally aggrieved & losers of society very well at all, especially in places where opportunities abound...on or off the books ;-)
A 911 truth denier quoting Churchill. How gauche.
One wonders how either of you ever made enemies: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/09/08/book-claims-churchill-deliberately...
not only has the cia possibly lost some control over al-qaeda , the number 1 bagman service to the bush crime syndicate, but the blowback from its wicked policies of murder and suppression in the middle east is harvesting the whirlwind....
the cia established that pompous murdering shah of iran with his hated cia-trained savak secret service....the attrocities committed by the usa in iraq and afghanistan are attrocious and should be tried by a human rights tribunal....and the guilty party are the necons - wolfowitz, cheney, abrahmson, rove and a host of truly sick murdering oil lusting tyrants....
No numbers on Yugoslavia and in general how many Muslim lives have been SAVED by the US? No notes about Muslims killing other Muslims? Let's just leave out the part of the family honor killings, the women as cattle thing doesn't mean much, and why bother mentioning that Muslims believe those who refuse to accept their faith should be killed. If only you would all submit, then The Prohpet will bring peace! Phaaa...
I'm not convinced that it's really blow-back. If you read this (http://lizzie-phelan.blogspot.ca/) you'll see that there's the possibility that it's all just part of what is expected, and that, perhaps, it's actually viewed as a "plus."
Power corrupts. WTF else do people need to know? The most corruption is where the most power lies. I don't think I need to point out where that would be...
ALTERNATE HEADLINE:
Former CIA Allies AQ Revolt Over Fed MBS Deal
"...how am I supposed to feed my family on a shrinking paycheck?" asked Ali Mohammed, on TDY in Syria.
CIA Calms Rumors of AQ Switch to Chevy Volt
"....It's just one of those rumors that go around the battlefield," said an unnamed CIA spokesman. "AQ will still use off-brand "sterile" Hummers."
Arab Krugmanites are demanding bigger MBS purchases and liquidity injections.
Your going to have to know this information going forwards. Obama just invited the Muslim Brotherhood back to the White House instead of sitting on a scheduled meeting with Bibi from Israel. The President just took off his Mask for real.
Hillary Clinton had 48 hours notice in advance that the attack was coming.
Re-cap on what kicked off this overseas crisis.
I watched the video in question, and the post production voice over is a fake narrative. Your witnessing a faked provocation to the Muslim world purported by us, the USA. Go watch the video and you be the judge. It's petty and low budget "movie" by a California banker that's under Federal indictment for fraud and just so happens to have ties to Egypt coincidentally.This is staged and scripted narritive, I will walk you through the reason why.First off, you need to be aware of 2 shell Corps, one is called IRI, the next is called (USAID) These "Pacs" directly fund Al-Qaeda and the Muslim Brotherhood. Financing made available through our State Department, Hillary Clinton.Ray LaHood;s son, Sam LaHood on his last trip to Egypt recently had him and 10 other Americans detained and charged with State Sponsored Terrorism, see, Hosni Mubarak found out that (USAID) was actually a shell Corp secretly funneling money into the hands of radicals, ie Al-Qaeda as to fund a destabilization campaign against Egypt for years. This is why Mubarak had to be removed from power and ultimately murdered.
Search all this post and terms and you will come to the conclusion that the USA is the largest sponsor of Terrorism in the world. Our Congressmen and Senators are all in on it also. Thank you for reading and come to your own conclusions.
Search: 1)The Globalists and the Islamists 2) Operation Cyclone 3) The Muslim Brotherhood – The Globalists' Secret Weapon
Must read > http://www.sianews.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=271
"Well, I [really] laugh when I hear the FBI talking about Al Qaeda as an organization of bin Laden... [It's really a] very simple story. If bin Laden is to receive Arabs from Saudi Arabia and from Kuwait--from other regions--he is [to] receive them in the guest house in Peshawar. They used to go to the battle field and come back, without documentation... There [was] no documentation of who has arrived. Who has left. How long he stayed. There's only [a nice general reception]. And you go there. And you join in the battle field... Now, he was embarrassed by many families when they called him and ask what happened to our son. He don't know. `Cause there's no record. There's no documentation. Now he asked some of his colleagues to start documenting the movement of every Arab coming under his umbrella... It is recorded that [they] arrived in this date and stayed in this house... Many of them had come only for two weeks, three weeks and then disappeared. That record, that documentation was called the record of Al Qaeda. So that was Al Qaeda. There's nothing sinister about Al Qaeda. It's not like an organization... I don't think he used any name for his underground group. If you want to name it, you can name it 'bin Laden group.' But if they are using the term Al Qaeda ... Al Qaeda is just a record for the people who came to Peshawar and moved from there back and forth to the guest house. And moved back to their country." "Pakistan had issued standing instructions to all its embassies abroad to give visas, with no questions asked, to anyone wanting to come and fight with the mujahidin. In the Middle East the Ikhwan ul Muslimeen (Muslim Brotherhood), the Saudi-based World Muslim League, and the Palestinian Islamic radicals organized recruits and put them in contact with the ISI. The ISI and Pakistan's Jamaat-e-Islami Party set up reception committees to welcome, house, and train the foreign militants. Then the two encouraged militants to join the mujahidin groups, usually the Hizbe Islami. Much of the funding for this enterprise came directly from Saudi Intelligence, which was partly channeled through the Saudi radical Osama bin Laden, who was then based in Peshawar. At the time, French scholar Oliver Roy described the enterprise as 'a joint venture between the Saudis, the Muslim Brotherhood, and the Jamaat-e-Islami, put together by the ISI.' "
Your going to have to know this information going forwards. Obama just invited the Muslim Brotherhood back to the White House instead of sitting on a scheduled meeting with Bibi from Israel. The President just took off his Mask for real.
Now, for the SANE among us, is this not a 100% indicator that POTUS is a MUSLIM?.
If anyone thinks he is not, they're NUTS.
I would rather say the "movie" was a cover used as an excuse for already-planned attacks Hussein was aware of.
Indeed.
There's nothing faked about any of this ... it's a well-planned screenplay. Both the "provocation" and the "reaction" ... pure Hegelian tactic: the signature of the Jesuits/Khazarians.
The film-maker will have been funded and provided a script by the CIA or another Khazarian-kontrolled "institute"/"center". The groups in the streets will be headed by well-funded and well-trained agents provocateurs from the globalist-controlled Muslim Brotherhood ... inciting rent-a-mobs from the most depressed parts of the respective countries ... just like in the "Arab Spring" of Tunisia, then Egypt, then Libya, then Syria.
The "game is on", folks! We are now just unwitting dupes in the Khazarians' long-awaited final scene of a takeover of the US and Europe (all other countries will then fall into line) ... while the cheering crowd's attention is focussed on a staged brawl in the Middle East.
On the bright side: I don't expect any nuclear exchanges. They leave too much mess behind for the winners to clean up and live in.
They need to up their production values a bit though, how do they ever expect anyone to sit through crap like that?
Frankly I think this movie is nothing more than a really crappy attempt at incitement. A minority will go silly and vent for a bit, and the rest will see what it is, and ignore it. Suspect it's too obvious and crass for almost all people to take it seriously as an insult. Looks more like something made by a 15 year old.
what's funny, the movie doesn't even exist... the stink is over the "trailer"... which is just some shit thrown together and overdubbed with moronic offensive language.
Becile admits over 100 Jews financed the film. Jones has been described as a CIA man in some online pieces, too.
No need for much "inside job" stuff--not that it isn't there--but a funded provocation for the purpose of stirring a hornet's nest is easily supportable.
Just like 9\11 was some kind of 'mix-up, a Keystone Kops kind of farce played out by a gaggle of incompetent buffoons according to GW,..
now the whole followup, the decade long, world-wide war on\of terror
is somehow the work of 'morons' - another bunch of luvable rogues who wander the globe, like a team of goofy basketball players, scoring in their own net...
"The US"...that amphorous entity which represents all that we can't really see, or understand, but that stands in for all that we would like to hate, if we could just see, thru all the smoke n mirrors...did it!
No reason to talk about millenialist madmen whose vision of mass mutual destruction by the kneo-konned dupes of both wast and east has set up this whole mess and probable outkome, no need to finger the usual suspects in the tiny terrorist strip mall & manufakturers' outlet down there in the desert that blooms with sionist bloodlust for more goyish sacrifice to their hope of hegemony...nothing going on here. folks...
now just move along, whilst kontinuing to engage yurself in a variety of pointless, and misdirected discussions about things of no real konsequence to yur rapidly reducing circumstances, so that yur dual-citiizened overlords kan kontinue to plot yur demise.
George has got yur backsides! Er, what's that target thingey yur wearing there?
love your work george, dont pull any punches or take any wooden nickels ;)
Second that.
US foreign policy has been a disgrace for the last 50 years and weakened the country to the point of letting the chinese regain ascendancy in the next 20 years.
Why?
They think they know best and they think they know islam.
The NWO wants to assimillate islam as it sees it as a threat to one world government so they keep fucking around with it. A few raped white women and maimed soldiers are a small price for pay for the zionist plutocracy....
Islam cant be tamed or assimilated... a good airstrike would
'blow it forward to the stone age son!..'
the problem facing civilization has nothing to do with islam. true islam, like true christianity, is a target to be destroyed by the talmudic luciferians who control the central banking system and most of the military industrial complex. think about it, its obvious that central banks are a key tool of global fascism... how many of these central banks are islamic? use some basic logic and get past the mind control.
bullshit,
..my ass; sheesh, let's not forget where it all started, this thirst for global control. how about in the oldest and most profitable corporation of them all - the corporate office of vatican:
then the unam sanctam ends:
if that is not a forward looking, corporate mission statement, then i dont know what is ...
Talmudic Luciferians--good term--and all luciferians, basically, too.
Islam is very uncool, too, dude.
But it's clearly not the biggest problem. +1 from me.
religions are like almost any other organized structure... subject to infiltration and corruption. Islam, Christianity, Judaism... all have this issue. Militant Islam is to islam what fundie christianity is to true christianity... mind control. how else to you convince people that all allegedly worship the same God to go out and hate and kill each other? luciferians laughing all the way to hell.
Blah blah... 'religions are all the same dude'...spoken like a true atheist away from whats happening on the street.
my point is that the average uneducated islamic on the street is more of a threat to me and my family than the uneducated atheist - not due to religion but due to the backward thinking it fosters and the PC west does nothing.
i hate to use daily mail links but the PC press in the UK tries to ignore it all and im in a hurry
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2183636/Brussels-How-cost--Hidde...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2141279/Rochdale-child-sex-trial...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2155823/Social-workers-hid-fact-...
have you ever seen your family harassed? i have and i guess it clouds my judgement but when you start looking its the tip of the iceberg and merrily saying it doesnt matter makes it all the easier for our kids lives to get more dangerous
its hard to get over to americans what its like to deal with a significant islamic population in your country, you have the advantage of isolation from the horde.
with europe having 20% of all births to islamic parents you may notice IF you ever get out of the country and visit.
more people die of electrocution via their toaster than terrorism. bankers on the otherhand are literally impoverishing millions. so remind me again who the real threat is?
"more people die of electrocution via their toaster than terrorism."
More reason why DHS needs access to our kitchens. BTW, you forgot about deaths in bathroom accidents.
I've had Muslim women--students of mine here in America--Palestinians, no less--tell me that those who leave the Islamic faith should be killed.
No other mainstream religion practices or believes such horror--none.
hardly sounds like a true tenant of islam, regardless of what such people allegedly say.... Todd Akin of Missouri claims that women's bodies have natural defenses to "true" rape... is that a christian teaching? or some moron spouting off...
Read the apologetics on the issue (the other side) and decide for yourself:
http://www.answering-christianity.com/apostates.htm
hey thats a good link..
i was hoping to change my mind a bit about islam and learn a few things... i realise i'm the only one who sees trouble on the horizon and bores everybody on this thread stoopid
so i read it.
and it was explained to me that in the early years of islam 'the jews and christians' shamed islam by joining up and leaving - sort of like that Jemima Goldsmith now... and a few other folks who join religions cos it seemed like a good idea at the time.
So mohamed, to stop this shaming, put out an order to kill everyone who 'shames' islam... but forgot to cancel the order... so it still goes on.
Thats it - thats the explaination for all these people getting their heads cut off in grainy videos?
thats what moderate islam is? now i'm more depressed....
thanks a bunch
Ha, you're welcome! I'm not sure why you're getting down arrows? Perhaps I'm missing something?
Perhaps one can find better links for "the other side" (better links for the position that the Koran does not proscribe this type of violence), and that's why you're getting down arrowed? It would help if you specify the link because I did list three--I'm inferring from your post that you mean the third, though (I think it's obvious if folks looked at all three).
I think, though, that I've nailed the problem--the occultist dialectic--and many who are irritated or disagreeing are simply too "liberal" to condemn something atrocious or are falling into the occultist dialectic (my term as far as I know--think of Hegelian dialectic): that you either have to choose the Muslim side or the Jewish side.
Yet we might be misunderstanding the Koran? That's not impossible. But the "other side" link that I see, as a Lit teacher who has occasionally (in World Lit 1 courses) had to present parts of the Koran to students, cannot currently accept the third link as a quality explanation for the first two links. Oh well, I am sure that I don't know everything about this matter and will keep reading and trying to learn.
On an aside note, currently Sufis (Rumi was a Sufi, right?) are being attacked violently by Islamists who consider them heretics. There have even been some stories in the mm about it. Hard to believe the Sufis are part of "blowback" attributed to US policy, then--or the many women attacked over there, etc--or the Copts, for that matter, who merely need protection--but I digress. And Sufis might be considered occultists or at least "gnostics" if we want to split hairs, so they might actually be part of the "blowback." Still, it's a tough sell.
Sadly, the Christian side is too often presented in the mm as being represented by folks like Robertson or Jones.
Thanks for your time, though, and what looks to me like a thoughtful comment w/genuine despair. Sorry. I do my best, but sometimes we just don't have a lot of time to find the best sources to support positions. Perhaps I'll find a better one later?
I do enjoy the interaction, especially w/the three of you. It has a much more genuine, honest feel than many of the predictable spats and flash quips I encounter.
Ha yourself and i've enjoyed it too.
as time goes by you'll accumulate your red arrow followers too...
if you stay with ZH you go through a well trodden path with it....
Stage 1 - Reading a lot and learning.
Stage 2 - Posting more
Stage 3 - Developing relationships
Stage 4 - Going all in on PM's
Stage 5 - Rejection of all the bad news and only visiting occassionally
Stage 6 - Reading again and not posting.
Stage 7 - Posting with brevity.
I'm at stage 7.
What is next i dont know?
hey Clashfan, maybe don't take sides, maybe step OUTside the box of all religions, and observe them from a different perspective altogether.
you can still call yourself a "believer" and pay tributes to your chosen god, live according to what you believe to be "his" teachings - but absent yourself from seeing "the other side" as somehow not privy to "truths" that make you a "chosen believer" - or whatever words you feel appropriate to describe your faith.
the very nature of religion is exclusive, in that if one doesn't believe in a particular version, then one is not included in the chosen. given the enormous list of faith variants & believers, this cannot be an ultimate truth, that a certain number of humans are chosen because of who they worship, with the rest discarded or condemned to some "hell". it's just not plausible when examined closely in the face of the whole of humanity.
peace.
One thing I feel like I understand (from my Christian perspective) is that we are not supposed to judge. We are supposed to pray for our enemies and watch what comes out of our mouths, etc.
By "other side," I merely mean another take/interp on what the Koran says about violence against apostates. I am not sure from your response if my message to which you are responding is clear. :)
Whether or not it "cannot" be true (referencing your comment) is not clear to me from the logic you present. That said, I'm not sure at all that I would be considered a "traditional" Christian, and I'm certainly no fundie.
Regardless of what I or anyone thinks, though, it is entirely possible for truth to exist outside of our opinions and irrelevant to our opinions, yes?
Finally, the point is a literary one--at least so far as the thread is concerned--whether or not the text (the Koran) advocates murder of apostates or advocates violence--more specifically my point being that the NT (as far as I understand it) is more of a peaceful, non-violent text than the Talmud or Koran. That is not a point of faith (which you seem to be implying that it is). That is a point of literary fact. Yet, once we get into literary interpretation, it again becomes a problem of opinion.
And that's why I posted a link from the "other side," meaning the other interpretations of the Koran that argue that the Koran alledgedly does not promote the kind of violence that some say that it does.
While my faith does affect a bias on me to which I readily admit, I am not trying to argue faith but argue fact based on text--an argument about the differences in the literature.
I should also add that you, Duke, and Puppy are regularly receiving up arrows from me on the threads. I enjoy reading comments from all three of you, for the record, and I greatly appreciate any interaction with you interesting and entertaining folks. :)
and I appreciate your posts as well - you've consistently kept an open mind even while stating your beliefs, and in my opinion, that will get you closer to truths. . . (intentionally plural)
when trying to reach a truth about the printed texts of religions, it's good to ask: who wrote this?
as in, what humans contributed to the points of view in print.
it's all human, it always is - that's all you need to remember. humans, and their opinions, in print.
until these multitudes of gods take up the pen themselves, and full responsibility for their own words, then humans get the credit & blame, in my opinion.
E=MC2. . . I always liked B.A.D. =]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wRyZyrnVsFA#!
Mick Jones is somewhat (somewhat) outspoken about his Jewish roots, too. No doubt he would recognize Einstein like that. Mullins has some interesting comments about Einstein and the atom bomb, but I know I'm getting off track there, so I'll stop.
Love BAD, but MJ is really my least favorite of them, mostly because of his prima donna attitude regarding the breakup of the band. He's always been someone who wanted to act like a rock star, more than any of the others, in my opinion.
Of course, Topper was the real reason for the breakup. I'm not denying that.
London 80's music /art scene had some massive egos, this is truth - I always liked Don Letts, his club nights had great music & accompanying vibes. he also promoted (managed?) The Slits for a bit, bonus points.
Mick Jones has always seemed like a big kid - self promoting, loud, but could be generous too, and he genuinely loves music - both his own and others, heh.
I'm sure you've already seen:
Punk Attitude
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yQo14nUT9s
(because music was just a part of the whole)
No, I haven't seen it. I have become more of a punk these days than I was when I was younger. I will try to check it out, though, TY.
I do know of The Slits. I have Rhapsody now, so I get to hear a lot of music that I just couldn't hear before.
Lately I have been getting into some old and new punk bands and a lot of jazz.
But I've always loved The Clash, from the first time I heard them.
The "Medicine Show" video is really fun, too. If you can tell me who the cops are, you're paying attention: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BD2kWCfTcaU
why, Mick's ole pals Joe & Paul, of course! with the Rotten one posing at the end shoot-em-up! lol
gotta love the massive pile of . . . physical, hmm ^^
http://answering-islam.org/Silas/apostasy.htm
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/012-apostasy.htm
its funny, i read those quotes, i get something entirely different that what you and that website author get... recall that Jesus is revered in islam, and was revered by Muhummed... so Christianity is not forbidden by Islam... Allah is the same God as the God that Jesus prayed to, his "father in heaven"... so worshipping that God is certainly no problem in Islam... what Muhammed was concerned with, was the war in the heavens between Satan and God... now what do you suppose the odds are that same war is still playing out today and that most people in this world are hopelessy confused about who or what they are serving... think about. Someone said that the greatest trick the devil ever played was convincing people that he was not real... but I think that is incorrect. In reality, the greatest trick the devil ever pulled, was convincing a huge portion of humanity that he was God. so sure are you that you know? read the old and NT carefully and ask yourself if "god" acts in very contradictory ways... wonder why...
I should add that when all of this broke out (911 etc), I was reminding students, quite vocally, that Islam is closer to Christianity than any other major religion, for the points you raise and others.
These are good points.
But the question I am raising is whether the Koran advises death for apostates, then differentiating between that and the NT.
I have had A LOT of Islamic students. I teach in the metro Atlanta area.
I have listened to what they have said in class discussions and in conversations after class. I have had some poor Muslim students and some excellent ones. I have had Sunnis and Shias.
I know I cannot prove that students have said this to me, but they did.
I no longer teach face-to-face (entirely online now), but I remember the three Palestinian girls very well. They were pretty. They were smart. and they were some of the last f2f students I had, in 08. I asked them the question after class because they, of course, had been very vocal about the Palestinian position (one with which I strongly sympathize, btw--no Zionist here). I asked because I was hoping that I would get a different answer from them, honestly. Sadly, I did not.
When People read the Bible, they really need a couple of good concordances to be able to look up the greek and hebrew meanings to important words, as pretty much every translation is quite flawed in their translations. It;s hard work but crucial to understanding.
http://www.greatsite.com/timeline-english-bible-history/
Just one of many histories available online, quickly found link, then.
The Koran produces many different interpretations, too, and I have had devout Muslims tell me that one cannot understand it without learning Arabic. We could go around and around w/both all day (and differing versions and interps of the Talmud, too).
I am not a scholar on any of the three. Obviously, I've read a lot more in the NT than in any of the others. Tough to be an expert on everything. Lots of concordances/interps on the net, few of them all-encompassing.
I hope I can live long enough to glean more knowledge.
Some even argue that Shakespeare (who, I'm convinced, was De Vere) wrote the KJ version--for whatever that's worth. Scholarship is delving into it. Many of the versions of that day were accompanied with illustrations, translations of key words, notes in the margins, etc.
http://www.shakespearefellowship.org/virtualclassroom/bibledissabsetc.htm
The Geneva Bible, then, seems to be the one "Shakespeare" used--or was it? As you can see, the case gets messy: http://www.shakespeare-oxford.com/?p=83
And there are those who have problems (like some Baptists/anabaptists, for example) with the Codex Sinaiticus, too.
http://www.deanburgonsociety.org/CriticalTexts/sinaiticus.htm
Lots of strands in old Duder's head.
Some folks still can't agree, for example, whether or not Jesus drank fermented wine or grape juice.
To be more brief, Pup, point taken.
OK i'm back after my wife demanded my presence...
John mate... all that you say is the obvious for the middle class nice person.
you deal with educated people at their work who are the elite from islamic countries. good people and i say that myself. but its not them having 10 kids and calling them 'jihad' and six of them called mohamed, mohammed,muhamed.. all different names so they dont come up as no1 on the most popular name for a boy statistics...
But islam is playing the long game - demographics - and europe is letting it happen. Due to space cadets like you ... no offense.
And that makes civil war likely in the next 20 years.
Then we'll revisit your arguement.
been to detroit lately?