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Greece, Tell Brussels “To Take A Hike” And Let The Troika Bail Out The ECB Instead

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Wolf Richter   www.testosteronepit.com

Awful as Greece’s GDP has been, it doesn’t do justice to the economic fiasco. Take new vehicle registrations: in August, they plunged 46.7% from prior year. Only 3,886 new vehicles were sold. A collapse of 80% from August 2008 at the cusp of the crisis. For the first eight months of 2012, sales were down 42% from prior year, and 65% from 2008. People have stopped buying new cars. And not just cars.

“The situation continues to deteriorate,” wrote an acquaintance. “My normally honest friends and relatives have all begun to find ways to avoid the ever increasing taxes. The horrible bureaucracy worsens even in this small town of 5,000. It took a friend a month of running from office to office just to get a permit to repair, not construct, but repair an existing balcony. Hopeless.”

Ten years ago, he built a house in Southern Greece not far from Sparta—”with many fine workers, most of them Albanians and some excellent Greeks as well, but it took a long, long time.” The house is surrounded by citrus and olive groves. In the distance, mountains and the sea. He writes:

“I detest going to Athens because of the gridlock. Buildings built over the last twenty years have little or no dedicated parking. Why? Parking is low or no-revenue space that city planners have reserved for cronies with fakelos (envelopes with cash). Thus cars and scooters clog not only streets but sidewalks.”

Though the gridlock might be thinning out. Over the last two years, 68,000 businesses have shut down; another 63,000 might succumb next year, predicted Vassilis Korkidis, president of the National Confederation of Hellenic Commerce (ESEE). It infected the busiest shopping streets in Athens: on Panepistimiou, 34.7% of the shops were shuttered; on Akadimias, 42%!

So a new austerity package must be devised for the Troika—the bailout and austerity gang from the EU, the IMF, and the ECB—in return for more money so that Greece could service its debt that is rotting in some drawer at the ECB. As the coalition government was fighting over the provisions, a 24-hour general strike paralyzed parts of Greece on Wednesday. In Athens, 50,000 - 100,000 demonstrators streamed through the streets, shouting “enough is enough.”

Yet on Thursday, the leaders of the three coalition parties apparently agreed on the outlines of the austerity package, to be implemented in 2013 and 2014. It would include tax measures that might be applied to 2012 incomes. They’re even trying to go after the well-represented freelance professionals such as engineers, doctors, and architects. But my acquaintance remained cynical:

“There’s a popular saying here: ‘I threw him.’ Loosely it means, ‘I cheated him’ or ‘I was smarter than him.’ It’s considered a national sport to apply it to the taxman. Well, the taxman cometh—and he is fighting either 30 years or 2000 years of tradition. And he won’t win.”

As people refuse to pay taxes, the government is slowing disbursements. State-owned institutions have run out of money, and so have companies and individuals. And they stopped paying their bills. The ensuing circular absurdities push the country deeper into fiasco.

For example, the state-owned Social Insurance Foundation (IKA), itself out of money, hasn’t paid Saronikos Gulf Kidney Dialysis Center on Aegina Island in months for the treatment of its patients. So the center hasn’t paid its staff in six month, and couldn’t even pay its electricity bill. On Wednesday, Public Power Corporation (DEI), fighting its own liquidity crisis, cut power to the center. Instant media uproar. And power was restored. But still, the money hasn’t started flowing.

“Greece is a victim of the monetary union,” explained Czech President Vaclav Klaus. “It would be much better for them not to be in the straightjacket. It would be a victory for them.”

If the Greeks told the Troika “to take a hike,” as David Stockman said in his incomparable interview [The Emperor Is Naked], it would solve a host of problems. Greece would return to the drachma and regain control over its printing press. Troika members, and particularly taxpayers in Germany, who’re reluctant, very understandably, to throw good money after bad in Greece, would then have to look at the ECB. It owns most of the now worthless Greek debt. The Troika could then bail out the ECB directly rather than via Greece. It would be closer to home, and more honest—though it still wouldn’t solve the problem of taxpayers bailing out investors.

And then new money would start flowing because Greece would still be a member of the 27-nation EU and of NATO. That’s the difference between Greece and Argentina. Greece could restructure its government and society, or it could slide back into its old ways of doing things. It would be up to the Greeks, not the Troika.

It should look at Argentina, however. A perfect example of how not to run a post-default economy. And its policies are now taking on desperate and ugly forms. Read.... Not An Effective Capital Control, Import Control, Or Tax Measure – But An Effective People Control, by stilettos-on-the-ground economist Bianca Fernet.

And here is Jan Bennink, a Dutch columnist and self-described anti-EU populist, who wonders, “Is there anything more frightening than bureaucrats with a dream?” Read.... The New Great Dictators Are Gaining Momentum In Europe.

 

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Fri, 09/28/2012 - 11:11 | 2838952 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

The ECB's biggest worry is that Greece leaves the Euro and becomes successful in it's recovery.

Fri, 09/28/2012 - 10:15 | 2838629 rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

Could you imagine having a bunch of unelected officials making these decesions for your country? I'm sure glad we have a democracy in the US. LMFAO.

Fri, 09/28/2012 - 09:46 | 2838318 THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

Greece new light commerical vehicles ( -3.5 ton ) regs Jan to Aug

Y2006 : 16,174

Y2011 :   4,691

Y2012 :   2,371 (prov)

 

Italian Van  Jan to Aug

Y2006 : 146,065

Y2011 : 120,635

Y2012 :  77,211................

 

Fri, 09/28/2012 - 09:10 | 2838295 Charvo
Charvo's picture

How scary would it be for Greece to stop using the euro and return to the drachma?  How would Greece be able to import important necessities with drachmas?  Who would accept a currency that basically would be in its infancy and without any precious metal backing?  The devaluation would be severe.  The inflation would be incredible.  If the turmoil leads to riots, who would vacation in Greece?  That would further exacerbate the problem by depriving Greece of dollars and euros.

Fri, 09/28/2012 - 12:30 | 2839094 THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

@Charvo

My guess is that they would be able to import what they are importing now - but the domestic currency would be far more  efficient in the use of its existing capital stock.

The trains of Greece would be full to the Brim etc etc.

Instead they shut down these systems under a euro induced market state deflation.

 

The all important Greek oil balance remains the same more or less….as a non national economy it must destroy its internal capital & domestic demand to maintain the dominace of external capital……

Greek Oil balance Jan – July
Y2010 : 5,467.4 million euros
Y2011 : 6,675.2 Million euros
Y2012 : 6,604.4 Million euros

It is quite easy for a NATIONAL ECONOMY to reduce its oil imports if it has access to a extensive rail system.

 

 Greek "other good" imports  Jan - July (million euro)

Y2010 : 16,450

Y2011 : 15,146

Y2012 : 13,206

Greece posted a current account surplus in July...the first since  May 2010 when the oil price was much lower and Winter demand (oil central heating disappears)

 

Trade balance excluding oil & ships Jan - July ( million Euro)

Y2010 : -10,264

Y2011 :   -7,823 

Y2012 :   -5,448

You can clearly see it cutting off bits of itself (its capital account is being destroyed) to sustain the Euro nightmare.

In a national economy the oil balance would decrease a bit more and so therefore more would be availabe for capital purchase.

But.....

Due to the financial problems of Greece TrainOSE has come to suspend regional services on following lines:

  • Athens - Alexandroupolis (although the connection Thessaloniki - Alexandroupolis remains in service)
  • Edessa - Florina
  • Patras - Pyrgos - Kalamata
  • Kalamata - Messene
  • Corinth - Nafplio - Tripoli

Since 13 February 2011, due to the Greek financial crisis and subsequent budget cuts by the Greek government, all international services have been suspended.[5] The Greek railway system used to connect with the railways of neighbouring countries Bulgaria at Promahonas (Koulata) and at Ormenion, with Turkey at Pythion and with the railways of the Republic of Macedonia at Idomeni.

The passenger services from Greece that ran to neighbouring countries until February 2011 were:

Fri, 09/28/2012 - 10:41 | 2838783 Attitude_Check
Attitude_Check's picture

Its much better that the Greeks pay in Euro's that are accepted for trade -- that they do not have.  Oh yes MUUUCH better (for whom?)

Fri, 09/28/2012 - 10:40 | 2838777 Panafrican Funk...
Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

"Who would accept a currency that basically would be in its infancy and without any precious metal backing?"

They have an estimated 114 tonnes of gold reserves.  They only have a little over 11.3 million people.  They are extremely flush with PM backing.

Fri, 09/28/2012 - 11:02 | 2838892 Cole Younger
Cole Younger's picture

Drachma on a fractional gold standard....could be done...It would be worth more than the EURO or Dollar...

Fri, 09/28/2012 - 09:28 | 2838184 THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

The ACEA commercial vehicles data point  to why Italian diesel consumption is tanking.

omrpublic.iea.org/demand/it_dl_ov.pdf               (Italy the New Greece ?)

Italy is a BIG Euro vassal state.

JAN to AUG

COMMERCIAL VEHICLE registrations: -10.3% over eight months; -12.4% in August

From January to August, the EU* recorded 1,131,238 new vehicles, or 10.3% less than in the same period a year earlier. Germany (-2.5%), the UK (-4.0%), France (-7.0%), Spain (-24.9%) and ITALY (-35.3%) all saw their markets contract.

Greece is off all known scales of course.

Greece only regs 79 heavy commercial vehicles (over 16  ton) between Jan and Aug !!!!!!  (Y2011 : 199)

In the period Jan to Aug 2007 1009  heavy (16 ton+) vehicles were reg.

Its function like all the PIigs is to transfer oil to the core but they are truely taking the piss - it is a artifical dynamic of the Euro market state rather then the pre mid 1980s semi nation states of Europe.

If this sort of stuff happened in the mid 1980s the shit would be spread around animal farm a bit more.

Fri, 09/28/2012 - 08:37 | 2838158 mrktwtch2
mrktwtch2's picture

i often wonder what the world will look like in 2112..will the usa still exist or will we be on the path towards one world government..or will it be buisnes as usuall..(stupid wars over resources and bullshit religion..)

Fri, 09/28/2012 - 08:09 | 2838088 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

Argentina is one thing. The entire Continent of Europe? Where is the history of control? The borders have been opened....and they're not going to be closed...at least internally. Or literally. Greece is setting itself up for an intervention...gangs, mafias, thugs. Or worse...an outright invasion. They must devalue. They got screwed...no doubt. But they don't in my view want to spend the rest of their time doing it to themselves. I think their are innumerable folks who will invest in Greece...for a price of course. A LOWER price.

Fri, 09/28/2012 - 07:35 | 2838039 stuckonarock
stuckonarock's picture

 

The loss of belief in paper money is at the root of all of this!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvBKR5GPCWc&feature=player_embedded

 

What is happening is a slow global realization and awakening...

in case you didnt really understand, a piece of paper can not be worth 1 10 or 100 dollars/pounds/yen (unless its art baby)

it wasnt our fault, we were asleep, and we are  now beginning to stir,  but still want to believe the dream because it was nice...       it was an illusion :-)   go back to sleep or get rid of your fiat on some silver / gold/ land

 

Fri, 09/28/2012 - 07:20 | 2838019 Grand Supercycle
Grand Supercycle's picture

IMPENDING SELL OFF.
Longs please be careful.

Due to recent central bank intervention and short covering spikes, these daily charts are extremely overextended and significant correction expected very soon:

SPX, DOW, NASDAQ, NZDUSD, GBPUSD, AUDUSD, COPPER, CRUDE, GOLD, SILVER. [USD strength will return]

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-12-24/market-analysis

http://trader618.com

Fri, 09/28/2012 - 04:50 | 2837918 matrix2012
matrix2012's picture

GREEK WITH OWN DRACHMA should have better opportunity to recover... having more competitive costs will stimulate lots of economy activities there, in particular the servicing industry for those rich neighbours. Among others, tourism industry will take its vibrant moves. And remember the Greek women have alluring beauties, they surely will contibute positively into the hospitality industry!

Fri, 09/28/2012 - 07:21 | 2838021 tonyw
tonyw's picture

Yes, but they still need to get rid of the red tape "a month of running from office to office just to get a permit to repair, not construct, but repair an existing balcony." it should not be necessary for any permits to repair something. I have encountered this sort of thing where one has to go from department to department to get a paper stamped, it's a total waste of time just to keep civil servants in a job.

Fri, 09/28/2012 - 03:12 | 2837831 The Reich
The Reich's picture

Bailing out the ECB for illegal State funding won't happen.

Fri, 09/28/2012 - 02:06 | 2837783 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Athens, Sparta its all Greek to me. And, ZH must be Casandra to them.

Fri, 09/28/2012 - 02:02 | 2837780 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

Greeks are being subjected to policies amounting to economic genocide. Who will answer for the consequences?

Fri, 09/28/2012 - 05:02 | 2837924 matrix2012
matrix2012's picture

of course the Greek people themselves who will bear the full consequences... whether they remain asleep, being half awake or go to the full vigilant mode!

 

Just imagine...

In the declining and worsening times of limited hays and other crucial resources, if the HIGHNESS SHEPHERDS are able to LEAD the weak, redundant and/or sickening SHEEPS in excess into the slaughter houses, leaving intact just the healthy, useful and productive ones, such population culling may alleviate the underlying problems... or at least buying more time before the inescapable.

Just imagine...

On the other solutions, the HIGHNESS SHEPHERDS may try to stage fights and occupy other's lands and resources to feed themselves extravagantly and a small portion for the remaining sheeps. Act on as if grasshopers, they may attack any weakly guarded rich land, take away all the valuable resources, leaving only devastation and desperation or even extinction to wherever they may have touched down!

In the good times and tough times, they will inflict the suffering every where, esp. in the bad times, such agonies will be created more often, with higher intensity and even more obvious! There's no solution unless the wickedly look-alike grasshoppers (or vultures?) ON THE TOPMOST LEVELS are eradicated!

Wars are not only useful for filling up the fat accounts of MIC with the extra budgets, are not only for occupying and taking over the useful resources, they are also serving the purposes of the population culling, both own population (in smaller portion, the expendable uniforms) and in much bigger portion, the targeted powerless victims.

I just see it over and over, time and again, their nakedly bloody destructions every where!

 

Fri, 09/28/2012 - 01:16 | 2837743 markar
markar's picture

So Greek's powerful military just sits on the sidelines until there's nothing left to salvage?

Junta anyone?

Fri, 09/28/2012 - 07:23 | 2838026 tonyw
tonyw's picture

The problem with a junta or any other set of rulers is that they also become the oligarchs and corrupt. Power corrupts and total power totally corrupts.

Fri, 09/28/2012 - 02:15 | 2837790 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

The 1967 junta in Greece no doubt did certain things that condemned it in the eyes of democracy and decency, but the reality is that during that time roads were built, electricity and water reached even the smallest villages, policemen stationed in banks ensured that prompt service was provided, family members stopped feuding over left v right politics, and there was debt forgiveness for farmers.

It is now politically improper to sing the praises of that junta, but the fact is that those that remember that period are not afraid to express their support for that junta privately. With the exception of the most unfortunate treatment of communists, the rest of the Greeks knuckled down with work and a more reasonable attitude to life.

Fri, 09/28/2012 - 08:15 | 2838096 DrewJackson
DrewJackson's picture

Sounds like Chile with Pinochet.  Is there any other solution for Maoist? 

Fri, 09/28/2012 - 01:21 | 2837738 steve from virginia
steve from virginia's picture

 

 

Take new vehicle registrations: in August, they plunged 46.7% from prior year. Only 3,886 new vehicles were sold. A collapse of 80% from August 2008 at the cusp of the crisis. For the first eight months of 2012, sales were down 42% from prior year, and 65% from 2008. People have stopped buying new cars.

 

People will stop buying new cars forever. This is it, the 'Big One' has finally arrived. Guess what, fools? Resource depletion is permanent.

 

Greece is not a victim of the monetary union or the banks, it is a victim of the auto manufacturers. Use of the cars does not pay for the cars, nor does it pay for the fuel, money for these must be borrowed and has been in massive amounts for decades.

 

The Greeks want the euro ... they wanted the euro since the beginning ... because it gave access to great amounts of cheap imported fuel and greater amounts of automobiles with which to burn it. In a sense, Greece has burned up every bit of the hundreds of billions of euros it has borrowed, there is nothing left of the fuel and no useful residual with which to repay.

 

Neither Greece nor Germany has any asset with which they can gain returns. If returns were to be had none of the countries would be indebted. 

 

Greece can only promise to repay with the proceeds of fresh loans, leaving nothing with which to gain new fuel to waste.

 

To keep the cars the people starve. They are symbols of modernity which = ruin. What is underway in Greece cannot be fixed, the countr is utterly destroyed by its own, past  fossil fuel consumption. Spain is on the same trajectory, for the same reason ... Italy, Ireland, France, Japan, China, US, Brasil ... Vietnam ... Saudi Arabia ... there is no escape. Did I mention that resource depletion is permanent?

 

If you think I'm wrong you just watch and see.

 

http://www.economic-undertow.com/2011/06/27/dead-money/

 

It's the cars, stupid!

Fri, 09/28/2012 - 01:04 | 2837728 dcb
dcb's picture

it hasw been my view the plan has always been to bail out the ecb.

But besides greece all these countries are in a bank bailout where taxpayer foot the bill so the most wealthy of society don't have to take looses on what they own.

Fri, 09/28/2012 - 00:14 | 2837640 Reptil
Reptil's picture

This should clear up the doubt raised by mr. Bennink.
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/charter/convent49_en.htm

read art.2 section 2.
(a)    Article 2(2) of the ECHR: "Deprivation of life shall not be regarded as inflicted in contravention of this article when it results from the use of force which is no more than absolutely necessary: (a)    in defence of any person from unlawful violence; (b)    in order to effect a lawful arrest or to prevent the escape of a person lawfully
detained; (c)    in action lawfully taken for the purpose of quelling a riot or insurrection."

That means the mofos can, according to their treaty (which we rejected when it was presented as "Constitution") kill us, without due process, in case of riot or insurrection.
Seen the streets of Madrid lately mr. Bennink? Or Athens? Because this is so broadly stated, your writing might (in some orwellian state) be taken for incitement to insurrect. Or something of the sort. It's an open door to be kicked in at any time.

This is also useful. It's an analasys of the other bigger text (there are in total 6 interconnecting texts, that must be read in combination with each other to understand the "treaty")
http://www.eudemocrats.org/eud/uploads/downloads/e-Lissabon_til_nettet.pdf
The guy is absolutely right; this is not a treaty to protect citizens from politicians, it's a treaty with the purpose to shield politicians from any democratic oversight, or even influence.
For example all laws are made by NOT ELECTED officials.

In short. It's a scam.

Fri, 09/28/2012 - 06:37 | 2837975 Reptil
Reptil's picture

Straightjacket indeed.
In 2008 the European Court of Human rights said the killing of a rioting demonstrator during the G8 was "lawful"

Death of a demonstrator at the 2001 G8 summit in Genoa: no violation
In today’s Grand Chamber judgment in the case Giuliani and Gaggio v. Italy (application no. 23458/02) - which concerned the death of the applicants’ son and brother, Carlo Giuliani, during clashes at the G8 summit held in Genoa from 19 to 21 July 2001 and which is final1 - the European Court of Human Rights held:
By 13 votes to four, that there had been no violation of Article 2 (right to life) of the European Convention on Human Rights with regard to the use of lethal force;
By ten votes to seven, that there had been no violation of Article 2 with regard to the domestic legislative framework governing the use of lethal force or with regard to the weapons issued to the law-enforcement agencies at the G8 summit in Genoa;
By ten votes to seven, that there had been no violation of Article 2 with regard to the organisation and planning of the policing operations at the G8 summit in Genoa;
By ten votes to seven, that there had been no violation of Article 2 with regard to the alleged lack of an effective investigation into the death;
Unanimously, that it was not necessary to examine the case under Article 3 (prohibition of inhuman or degrading treatment) or Article 6 (right to a fair hearing);
By 13 votes to four, that there had been no violation of Article 13 (right to an effective remedy);
Unanimously, that there had been no violation of Article 38 (adversarial examination of the case).

source: http://hudoc.echr.coe.int/sites/eng-press/pages/search.aspx#{%22display%22:[%221%22],%22dmdocnumber%22:[%22883453%22]}

in other news the Department of Homeland Security is calling for more drones:

https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=e479e2cd6418aef3df9...

Ladies and Gentlemen, we're under attack.

Fri, 09/28/2012 - 11:44 | 2839090 Bob
Fri, 09/28/2012 - 00:28 | 2837691 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Welcome to the Khazarian Kleptokratic World Order!!

Fri, 09/28/2012 - 04:20 | 2837879 matrix2012
matrix2012's picture

For those ZHers who aren't yet familiar with the term KHAZAR, here's a brief excerpt:

"The Rottenchild claim that they are Jxwish, when in fact they are KHAZARS.  They are from a country called KHAZARIA, which occupied the land locked between the BLACK SEA and the CASPIAN SEA which is now predominantly occupied by GEORGIA.  The reason the Rottenchild claim to be Jxwish is that the KHAZARS under the instruction of the King, converted to the Jxwish faith in 740 A.D., but of course that did not include converting their Asiatic Mongolian genes to the genes of the Jxwish people.  You will find that approximately 90% of people in the world today who call themselves Jxws are actually KHAZARS, or as they like to be known, ASHKENAZI JXWS."

Quoted from Andrew Hitchcock's masterpiece of the World 2.5-Century Timeline, "The Histoy of the House..." - http://bit.ly/MhkwoV  or  its terser .ppt version: http://bit.ly/NlwRto

 

And here's another excellent article about the KHAZAR!

New Genetic Research Confirms Koestler's "Khazar" Theory

"Until the early 1980s, like millions of Christians, I believed the racial purity of the Jxwish people confirmed Scripture. I saw it as vindicating Biblical prophecy that the Jxwish people would not cease to exist. I was forced to reconsider by the compelling evidence of Arthur Koestler's book The Thirteenth Tribe. Koestler’s thesis has been highly contested, but today new evidence is emerging to support it.

Koestler said that in about the 8th century AD the Khazars, a nation living in Central Urasia, converted to Judaism. They migrated to Poland and created the eastern European or “Ashkenazim” branch of Jxwry. This would have been the largest influx of Gentile converts of all time. Koestler concluded that most Zxonist Jxws today, being Ashkenazim, have no genetic inheritance from Abraham; they are proselytes who seized land in Palestine that never belonged to their true ancestors."

http://bit.ly/SpZNyz

And here's the PAPER

 

 

Fri, 09/28/2012 - 08:24 | 2838053 i-dog
i-dog's picture

It goes much deeper than that - and begins on the Russian steppe, a thousand miles north-east of where those later Khazars had settled.

The Khazars had originally settled in what is now northern Kazakhstan - splitting off from the older civilization in Iran - around 2000 BC. There, their language diverged from Indo-Iranian into what is called the Indo-Aryan language and they developed a unique culture referred to as the 'Andronovo'. One of the tribes called themselves the "Basquirs" (Basque). They also invented the spoked-wheel war chariot!

Mounted on their war chariots, these Khazarian horsemen then descended into the Levant and easily overran their opponents. Firstly into Anatolia (Turkey), where they were referred to as the Hittites in the Bible. Then, around 1800BC, they continued on down into Egypt, where they were known as the Hyksos ("foreign rulers"). It was at this time, circa 1700BC, that the first blondes are depicted on Egyptian monuments.

After 350 years of chaotic and despotic rule in Egypt, the Khazarians were finally driven out into Canaan ("the Exodus") by the young native Egyptian Pharaoh Ahmose I ("Moses") in 1540 BC. They settled in Canaan under a number of Egyptian regional governors (probably the source of the myth of "the Twelve Tribes", being either the names of the governors or of a prominent Khazarian family in each region). Some of the Khazarians had also been scattered in the other direction - into what is now Libya and Tunisia - where they were known as the Berbers, of the area later known as the Barbary Coast. These Libyans also had white skin, blue eyes and blonde hair and were depicted as such on Egyptian monuments at Thebes in 1300 BC.

Around 300 years later, in 990 BC (or 832BC), the Khazarians built the First Temple of Solomon in Jerusalem. Shortly after this, the short-lived single kingdom of David and Solomon split into two kingdoms: Judea in the south, with its capital at Jerusalem, and Israel in the north, with Samaria as its capital. The two kingdoms became culturally separate, had their own dialects, and were often in conflict. However, in 721 BC, the Israelites (the northern ten tribes) were conquered by the Assyrians and taken as captives into exile. Then, in 586 BC, the First Temple of Solomon was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar II and the Judeans were also taken as captives into exile in Babylon. It is in Babylon that the Hebrew religion appears to have been developed by the exiles and that the first 5 books of the Old Testament (the Torah) appear to have been written, incorporating many Sumerian myths.

To be continued.......

Fri, 09/28/2012 - 12:18 | 2839236 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

i-dog, until the end of the 19th Century all historic interests in the turkic, "gentile" (in the sense of allowing each tribe it's god(s)) and so pluralistic Khazars centered on their elite's quite "late" conversion to judaism - to the chagrin of the muslim, eastern-roman (orthodox) christian and other ambassadors and advisers like the Magi at the Khazar's Khan court.

If you have a part of the Scythians/Hittites becoming the chariot riding Hyksos taking over the Egyptian Empire (including Judea) and then leaving the core delta under Moses for the periphery (Israel) under the rule of the Egyptian Imperial Governors (fleeing to them to escape persecution from the Emperor/Pharao) - splitting from the Egyptian rule, setting up the first monotheistic Kingdom, splitting up in two and then ending as monotheistic (southern) Israelites in Babylon "under the eye of the King of Kings", then you end up with the monotheistic Israelites, complete with their latest's book's rulings.

Fine by me, but then what's the point in calling them "Khazars"?

In part two or later (can't wait) you would have to get them back to the Khazar Khanate, establish their rule there as A) aryians over turkic peoples and then B) re-convert to Judaism? (Just speculating, before you cry "Straw Man")

I doubt the ambassadors to the Kazhar's Khan court would have failed to notice that, we have written accounts out of that epoch, including diplomatic exchanges with Constantinople, where the Emperor was keen in converting that pluralistic region to Christendom. And they describe the Khan and it's power nexus as definitely turkic (which includes people with blond hair and blue eyes).

Fri, 09/28/2012 - 23:09 | 2840947 i-dog
i-dog's picture

You jump back and forth thousands of years, Ghordie, and end up confusing yourself with irrelevant conflations and non sequiturs. Drifting between provable history and religious dogma also doesn't help.

Ironically, I was led into discovering this historical back-story through investigating a modern "gospel" - the 9-11 Story, as told by the political leaders of the 21st century! The Gospel According to St. George!

Sometimes the uncovering of one lie leads to the discovery of many others.... :-O

Fri, 09/28/2012 - 08:38 | 2838161 Its_the_economy...
Its_the_economy_stupid's picture

I want to read what your reading. What are you reading?

Fri, 09/28/2012 - 09:26 | 2838350 falak pema
falak pema's picture

the history of the Scythes converted into Khazarian mumbo jumbo. But why not, it makes a Hitchcockian tale! 

Rear window! Good photojournalism. Where is Grace Kelly in all this late nite drama?

Fri, 09/28/2012 - 09:54 | 2838393 i-dog
i-dog's picture

"mumbo jumbo"? ... coming from you!?! ... ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please point out the factual errors, then separately list any assumptions that you disagree with.

Dismissive ridicule is not argument ... it is simply childish, simian, faeces-throwing!

FYI, the Scythian culture was based on the shore of the Black Sea ... a long way from the Russian Steppe ... and over a thousand years later....

On second thought, stick to fiction ... it's your forte.

Fri, 09/28/2012 - 09:58 | 2838502 falak pema
falak pema's picture

Khazars - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 

Scythians - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Mumbo jumbo you love.

So where is Grace Kelly in this tale?

 Nefertari? Nefertiti? Hatchepsout? Helen of Troy?

So many legends to fit the hitchcockian soup that you want to sell!

Why don't you write us your Khazarian Illiad, the source of all luciferian evil on earth! 

PS : Re your comments.

Well, your words speak for themselves. Look at those two maps from both threads; Scythes and Khazars; all around the Caspian and Black sea region.

Spot on, two thousand year time line in same region. 

Fri, 09/28/2012 - 10:13 | 2838586 i-dog
i-dog's picture

That Khazar map is from 650AD ... that Scythian map is from 600BC ... my story is from 2000BC ... you dufus.

You should do some proper researching on the facts I provided, like:  "chariots", "Andronovo", "Indo-Aryan", "Basquirs" ... or, as I said, stick to fiction!

You really are a fucking moron ... buried nose deep in fairy tales from Greek mythology. I'm surprised you can even breathe!

Fri, 09/28/2012 - 10:20 | 2838657 falak pema
falak pema's picture

Thats just my point :

Anybody who pretends to have historical knowledge of what happened in 2000BC; across the Asian and Egyptian continent, has to be SON OF ALFRED HITCHCOCK AND..HOMER, all rolled into one.

Or else, revelatory prophet, precursor to Moses, and...preceding arrival of Abraham himself on earth. (I won't insult you by taking you to Noah's Arc).

So you can pretend establishing an historical thread for that day and age; aka 2000 BC, and link it to Ancient Egypt, to Moses himself, (a mythical character in history), its all smoke and mirrors of Hollywoodian calibre.

Play on, mumbo jumbo artist. But don't pretend you are Herodotus's son! 

Fri, 09/28/2012 - 10:31 | 2838725 i-dog
i-dog's picture

LOL ... I thought so: no substance.

Fri, 09/28/2012 - 10:47 | 2838815 falak pema
falak pema's picture

Cecil B de Mille, Land of the Pharoahs or The greatest story ever told...and the sequel by i-dog! 

Fri, 09/28/2012 - 11:11 | 2838876 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Oddly enough, those of us who follow the latest archeological findings (a subject of which you'd be blissfully unaware!) have noted that the Israelis have been furiously digging all over Israel ever since they were handed the keys back in 1948 - that's 65 years of relentless digging! - and they have yet to find one single shred of evidence for their own biblical fairy tale of their origin.

Ponder that, fiction writer!

Then offset that against my own factually correct snippets ... which are sure to include the linguistic similarities between the Basquirs of Khazakstan and your Basque neighbours in eastern Spain - a topic that may be covered if we were to discuss the blonde-haired Ignatius Loyola, of Jesuit fame, in Episode 3.

Fri, 09/28/2012 - 11:50 | 2839105 falak pema
falak pema's picture

my only point of fact is we do not have the same understanding of the word "historic substance". This is amply evident.

I bow to your Quixotic quest of not only being Cecil B deMille's successor but also that of Indiana Jones! 

I have no axe to grind with the Israeli myth. Apparently you have.

Whence my skepticsm about all your posts on this subject that hide a preordained mindset;  which is simply prejudice all garbed in Indiana Jones and Heredotus type magical cape and dagger! 

There has to be a luciferian trace of non pure, ethnically mixed blood line that is NOT that of Abraham, and therefore suspect in all its current hegemonial yearnings egging the Goyim on their mayhem trail.

It all makes Hitchcockian sense, I'll grant you that!

Dig away i-Indiana Jones! 

Fri, 09/28/2012 - 12:10 | 2839175 i-dog
i-dog's picture

 

we do not have the same understanding of the word "historic substance". 

Indeed ... evidence and reason vs. Greek romantic poetry

"There has to be a luciferian trace of non pure, ethnically mixed blood line that is NOT that of Abraham, and therefore suspect in all its current hegemonial yearnings egging the Goyim on their mayhem trail."

Whaaaat?? Absinthe gettin' to ya? Google Translate down?

Fri, 09/28/2012 - 12:28 | 2839278 falak pema
falak pema's picture

....and they have yet to find one single shred of evidence for their own biblical fairy tale of their origin....

C'mon i-dog give it a rest. Shape up. All these digs point to the same direction; like Joy's Kharazian quest. You are both on the same quixotic page.

I rest my case. No problem.

Its your theory. I accept that. It's not history.

Fri, 09/28/2012 - 20:01 | 2840516 i-dog
i-dog's picture

 

"It's not history."

It's not the his-"story" laid down by the rabbis and monks, I'll give you that. But the truth is coming out ... DNA, linguistics, further archaeological finds, and rational analysis will continue to pull back the veil on those old fairy stories.

Thu, 09/27/2012 - 22:50 | 2837485 zorba THE GREEK
zorba THE GREEK's picture

Recently my brother-in-law went to Greece to start a business exporting

olive oil to the U.S. from a farm that his son had inherited. He was told that

he would need a lawyer to get all the proper licenses to do so.

There was a problem about the farm not being owned by a Greek 

citizen which became a legal matter that needed to be litigated.

My brother-in-law asked the lawyer how long it would take to bring the

case to trial. The lawyer laughed and said: "more time than you had left

on earth" (my brother-in-law was 70 at the time). He then asked: 'Why

do I need a lawyer if the case is not going to court?" Because we know

who has to be bribed and how much in order to get the problem solved.

That's how things work in Greece and much of the world. In some ways, it is more efficient than the U.S. court system.

Fri, 09/28/2012 - 08:31 | 2838138 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Already happening the world over.  All economies are local and the world is flooded with too many fucking paper promises and fewer things of real value.  No surprise that people want to paid up front.

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