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Top Nuclear Experts: Technology Doesn't Yet Exist to Clean Up Fukushima
World-renowned physicist Michio Kaku said recently:
It will take years to invent a new generation of robots able to withstand the radiation.
(The radiation inside the reactors is too hot even for robots.)
AP reports:
Hiroshi Tasaka, a nuclear engineer and professor at Tama University who advised the prime minister after the disaster ... said the government target of removing all the rods by the end of next year may prove too optimistic because of many unknowns, the need to develop new technology and the risk of aftershocks.
The world leader in decommissioning nuclear reactors, and one of the main contractors hired to clean up Fukushima - EnergySolutions - made a similar point in May:
Concerning the extraction of fuel debris [at Fukushima], which is considered the most challenging process, “There is no technology which may be directly applied,” said [top EnergySolutions executive] Morant.
A top American government nuclear expert - William D. Magwood - told the U.S. Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works:
It is very difficult to overstate how difficult the work is going to be at that site. There will need to be new technologies and new methodologies created to be able to enable them to clean the site up and some of these technologies don’t exist yet, so there’s a long way to go with that .... There’s a long, long way to go.
(Magwood is a Commissioner for the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, former 7-year Director of Nuclear Energy with the U.S. Department of Energy , where he was the senior nuclear technology official in the U. S. government and the senior nuclear technology policy adviser to the Secretary of Energy, and the longest-serving head of the United States' civilian nuclear technology program, serving two Presidents and five Secretaries of Energy from 1998 until 2005.)
Greenpeace notes that even storing the waste removed from Fukushima is a challenge:
A group of scientists from the Science Council of Japan (SCJ) are advising the government via the Japan Atomic Energy Company (JAEC) to completely overhaul its nuclear waste disposal plan. Currently, the government plans to bury spent nuclear fuel 300 meters below ground, where it will need to stay for tens of thousands of years until it is no longer radioactive.
The SCJ group said that because Japan is so prone to earthquakes and volcanic activity, there’s no guarantee of safety for future generations.
Instead, the researchers recommend storing the waste in “temporary safe storage” facilities, either above ground or underground, for up to a few hundred years—and in the meantime, actively working to develop new technology to ensure safe burial of the highly radioactive material. That technology does not exist at this point. “Based on current scientific knowledge, we cannot determine a geological formation that would be stable for hundreds of thousands of years .... But discussions on where the spent fuel should ultimately be stored have not even begun.
Postscript: We don't mean to imply that the situation is hopeless. Indeed, we are big believers in the ability of humans to come up with ingenuous solutions ... when we put our minds to it.
For example, Sandia National Laboratories has engineered a special "molecular sieve" which can more efficiently remove radiation from wastewater.
And one of the world’s leading authorities on fungi and bioremediation says that certain types of mushrooms can naturally reduce radiation.
Engineers are also furiously working on developing robots which can withstand higher levels of radiation.
But before we can tame this monster, we have to admit that Fukushima is one of the top short-term threats to humanity and deploy the resources necessary to develop the required technologies.
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Makes you wonder if blowing up Iran's nuclear generator has been really though out. That radiation will go somewhere.
Based on U.S. Energy Department data, assuming a total of 11,138 spent fuel assemblies are being stored at the Dai-Ichi site, nearly all, which is in pools. They contain roughly 336 million curies (~1.2 E+19 Bq) of long-lived radioactivity. About 134 million curies is Cesium-137 — roughly 85 times the amount of Cs-137 released at the Chernobyl accident as estimated by the U.S. National Council on Radiation Protection (NCRP). The total spent reactor fuel inventory at the Fukushima-Daichi site contains nearly half of the total amount of Cs-137 estimated by the NCRP to have been released by all atmospheric nuclear weapons testing, Chernobyl, and world-wide reprocessing plants (~270 million curies or ~9.9 E+18 Becquerel).
It is important for the public to understand that reactors that have been operating for decades, such as those at the Fukushima-Dai-Ichi site have generated some of the largest concentrations of radioactivity on the planet.
Many of our readers might find it difficult to appreciate the actual meaning of the figure, yet we can grasp what 85 times more Cesium-137 than the Chernobyl would mean. It would destroy the world environment and our civilization. This is not rocket science, nor does it connect to the pugilistic debate over nuclear power plants. This is an issue of human survival.
Perhaps the Global Elites have jumped on this opportunity to thin the human heard, and they are allowing/sponsoring this to happen ?
If you're right (and you could be), how do they expect to survive? (a) radiation does not discriminate, as far as I know, based on checkbook balances, and (b) who'll be left to hold their coats and lick their boots?
The war mongers want to blow up Irans nuclear generator so we can have a little more radiation spread around the world. The world is a mess
Based on U.S. Energy Department data, assuming a total of 11,138 spent fuel assemblies are being stored at the Dai-Ichi site, nearly all, which is in pools. They contain roughly 336 million curies (~1.2 E+19 Bq) of long-lived radioactivity. About 134 million curies is Cesium-137 — roughly 85 times the amount of Cs-137 released at the Chernobyl accident as estimated by the U.S. National Council on Radiation Protection (NCRP). The total spent reactor fuel inventory at the Fukushima-Daichi site contains nearly half of the total amount of Cs-137 estimated by the NCRP to have been released by all atmospheric nuclear weapons testing, Chernobyl, and world-wide reprocessing plants (~270 million curies or ~9.9 E+18 Becquerel).
It is important for the public to understand that reactors that have been operating for decades, such as those at the Fukushima-Dai-Ichi site have generated some of the largest concentrations of radioactivity on the planet.
Many of our readers might find it difficult to appreciate the actual meaning of the figure, yet we can grasp what 85 times more Cesium-137 than the Chernobyl would mean. It would destroy the world environment and our civilization. This is not rocket science, nor does it connect to the pugilistic debate over nuclear power plants. This is an issue of human survival.
A whole bunch of highly-paid nuclear industry consultants say that the technology doesn't exist to clean up Fukushima. We'll need to pay them more and hire more consultants. What BS. Hire some people who know what they're doing. Gawd. People like this have been around forever and they've been proven to be fools all along. "Can't exceed 60 miles per hour." "Man can't fly." "Can't reach the moon." ...
My first thought they need $billion for coventions studies and junkets to Vegas and Mccaw with green fees included as a down payment to assess the cost phase one . Phase one conventions, studies, junkets and green fees.
Absolutely. What is most frustrating to me is that we have a government that has to know everything about us: who we write e-mails to, our financial transactions, who we talk to on the phone, where we travel, our health status...yet it seems they do not have the ability to find anyone with the talent to solve the biggest problems facing our country today. We know the people with the smarts to tackle these problems exist and they sure as hell know exactly where to find these people, so WTF?!?! It can't be incompetence alone, right? Are they so far fuckin' removed from it all that they just don't care? Or is it a darker agenda?
Despotism must always be on guard against talent, brains, character, honesty, independent thought. The security apparatus exists to neutralize those things. Don't expect it to foster them.
Every robot every invented is subject to circuits being destroyed by the radiation. Unless you think you can personally walk in yourself to grab those fuel rods I guess that means you're fucked and you're wrong.
The LEAST vulnerable part of a robot would be a hydraulic piston. The MOST vulnerable parts would be any memory of any sort & any servo actuators. In case you hadn't noticed radiation shielding is HEAVY and weighing down your robots is a great way to get them stuck at corners or just running out of power. Remember these fuckers can't be plugged in, they need batteries to get in and out.
Good luck with that.
nuclear powered robots?
Okay, this is old school, but what about using a old-fashioned small gasoline engine in place of a battery? It's about the same weight (even with the fuel) and it could generate electricity to operate the robot. The only thing you have to shield is the "brain" which would cut down on weight. IT might also give the hydralics the power needed to lift heavy things.
You're on the right track. Here's the problem: you need a reliable way with no electronic circuits to move that power (gears, belts, transmission) to each actuated arm & joint, a trade-off of weight vs mobility for a thing that probably needs to dig and/or climb, definitely lift/carry and belts still run the risk of melting in adverse heat/radiation environments. BETTER than modern-day robots for this task but not all the way there.
Given the radiation risk to memory I'd say more than just shielding - I'd suggest hardened vacuum tubes in place of transistors and perhaps even a mechanical memory system. This thing needs to take a shit-kicking from radiation AND from collapsing building parts AND there's pools of radioactive water to get through (not over, but through, and that's ugly).
While only part of any solution there are a number of plants that feed heavily on radioactive elements in the soil. Tobacco is at the top of the list. Certain varieties of tobacco could be grown on contaminated Fukashima soils, harvested, dried, and stored in secure containers and in the process remove very large amounts of radioactive materials. It would take several rotations, and tobacco will not remove every redioactive element so the strategy would have to involve a combination of plants, but there's plenty of documentation on this property of tobacco - and it could easily be tested at Fukushima.
In spite of the joke potential, this is a serious proposal.
So fucking what. Plants may remove (as in absorb it) but it still lasts the same amount of time. All that does is create a much MUCH larger volume of radioactive plant material. Now where do you store all that?
how did your crop do this year?
There are a number of US reactors that are storing spent fuel like it was stored at Fukushima, which is a disaster waiting to happen. We can thank Harry Reid (D, NV) for the fact that the US does not have a nuclear waste repository and for forcing operators of nuclear power plants to store spent fuel on site.
There are 3 in Minnesota and Wisconsin located right on the Mississippi River.
GW: Generally love your blogs, but disagree on nuclear. Fukashima, like its predecessor Chernobyl, is very large on fear factor but short on actual death and dying. Like, nobody actually died. Outside estimate of excess cancer deaths is about 1000. Chernobyl estimate is 4000; I am an older guy living in Kyiv and don't know anybody who has been affected. My real estate broker has extra benefits because he was there as a fire chief, but he's fine.
You have to put it into perspective. 20,000 people per year die in coal mining accidents in China alone. Hundreds of thousands have their lives shortened by breathing the aerosols coal puts into the air. Radiation represents a tradeoff, and not a bad one. Read Stewart Brand's Whole Earth Discipline.
We will never know how many tenns of millions of people contract cancer and die from Fukushima and Chernobyl. Listen, dude, read the news. There are wild boar in Germany (freaking GERMANY) that are too radioactive to kill and eat because of Chernobyl over 25 freaking years ago. What does that say about the agricultural products all over Europe? No, you're way off base here, Tens of millions will contract horrible cancers and never know where those cancers came from, due to Fukushima, Chernobyl and all of the highly radioactive shit that the governments dump all over the world. Read up on spent nuclear weaponry as well. Then go read up on stories about birth defects and cancers in Iraq. Your 1000 number comes from the tooth fairy.
Boy you got this one waaayyyy wrong.
1 500 000 people died horrible deaths from chernobyl
dude, check your facts
its estimated there have been 1 million premature deaths already from chernobyl
watch a video about the birth defects and be horrified
then watch a video about birth defects on US military installations due to exposure to depleted uranium
radiation is bad...its no tradeoff
not that i want to breathe mercury from coal, but radiation lasts damn near forever
if we are going to destroy our planet for future generations, lets at least try destroy it in a way that isnt permanent
Check your own facts!
Iodine has a half life of 8 days and was gone in a month. It was the main reason for tokyo's radiation levels and got into the water. People who kept their kids off the water for a little will be fine. Locally in Fukushima Pref they are finding thyroid issues in kids, it's not good, there will be issues later, but that one isn't forever in that people who weren't effected last year won't be now. Most of the emissions were iodine
Cessium will be the next problem in the fish as it gets into the food chain over the next few years, half life is 30 years so will be with use for a couple of hundred. Will be mostly a local problem except for larger longer living fish and then it's hard to tell where it will dilute and where it will concentrate.
Then there's strontium...
You want to see something really scary, look at what is already in your water supply and food supply! what companies put shit in your rivers now or how pink slime is created from beef!
Fukushima is bad, it's also just the tip of the iceberg for all the hazards that we created for ourselves.
Now just cough 99c, get an i-distraction to support AAPL, drink the cool aid and buy bonds! All will be fixed when Ben's great work is done ;)
Yes, everybody knows about the idodine because that's all the MSM reported. Tell us about the mox plutonium they use at Fukushima. It contains plutonium-239 with a half life of 24,000 years.
It relly seems to be a question of information sources. In the Fukushima disaster the death toll came from the Tsunami...if someone could quote a source of radiation death I would be interested. My source tell of no immediate death and probable radiation effects on workers, who went to do first emergency works. Has someone reliable figures?
to freshen up your short memory.
Plutonium is a bitch, 1 nanogramm will kill you 100%.
And yes it lasts even longer than it takes you to reincarnate on this planet 100 times and yes it goes into the food chain.
Hmm, I'm STILL NOT gonna take a tour of Fukushima...
Wind and solar are more practical and cheaper than nuclear when you include the costs of nuclear cleanup and longterm storage. Some people (the Germans) are beginning to understand the math.
wind has been a huge failure
its use requires building a backup nat gas plant for every windfarm
solar barely pays for itself before it wears out
eventually people are going to realize they need to make do with less...less energy, less food, less crap
you cannot have infinite energy on a finite world
and we simply do not have the resources to replace the energy we make with off planet sources(solar)
just not enuf material ,rare earths, etc, to make the stuff to convert but a small percentage.period.
Jeez, do some easy research:
PV payback:
http://www.energybulletin.net/stories/2006-06-16/energy-payback-roof-mounted-photovoltaic-cells
Solar hot water payback:
http://solarhotwater.siliconsolar.com/solar-hot-water-payback-periods.html
Oops, I didn't see your "period" at the end of your comment. I guess that just shuts down all discussion. Sorry, my bad.
"It will take years to invent a new generation of robots able to withstand the radiation."
But first let's perfect the robots that make women obsolete.
Robots? Just conscript the banksters to handle the clean-up manually. Two problems threatening humanity solved simultaneously!!
I, for one, welcome our new cleanup robot overlords
who in another few generations will be the only remaining 'intelligent' life left on earth........
I came across various research one here
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Article:More_on_Brown%27s_Gas_%28%22HHO%22%29
that radioactive materials can be burned with HHO gas and by doing so reducing its nuclear emmitance. Then again who is interested when one can earn storage money for 30'000 years.
15 min montage video on the choices made re thorium versus uranium and a connection between sudden adult/child death syndrome and cesium 136.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaE2CdxSKGg
er, GW, we kinda knew this already ... i.e. Chernobyl residue hasn't been cleaned up by technology either.
Well, maybe YOU knew it.
Thanks for the work, GW. 'Preciated.
Heads up to friends in Tokyo:
Tokyo getting 5 times more radioactive fallout than prefectures closer to Fukushima …
George W, I read an article in "Scientific American" a few years ago that had an interesting proposal to safely put away "hot" (high level) radioactive waste. He proposed to put it into glass cylinders that would then be stored in wide boreholes deep below the ocean floor (presumably seimically stable). The glass would not melt, and the areas above would be marked by special buoys, discouraging anyone in the future from drilling there...
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Hey, I have a project you might take on. I recently read (while we were in Italy just a couple of weeks ago) that in TARANTO, Italy that the cancer rates are very high. Why? Industry apparently. I remember reading YEARS (decades?) ago that Lousiana had very high cancer rates due to the huge numbers refineries and petrochemical plants there. I presume that data would be easy to gather.
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Great, great work re Fukushima.
"Very healthy" - Ann Coulter
In related news, "The Sun is hot!" according to scientists...
Stupid robots!