New York Times Concedes that It Is Unknown Whether Syrian Artillery Came from Rebels or Government ... Ron Paul: Beware ...

George Washington's picture

New York Times Concedes that It Is Unknown Whether Syrian Artillery Came from Rebels or Government

d3cd0  63294297 syria turkey 624 New York Times Concedes that It Is Unknown Whether Syrian Artillery Came from Rebels or Government

The Turkish-Syrian Skirmish Is Being Taken Out Of Context

The mainstream American press has trumpeted for days the claim that Turkey is “retaliating” for artillery fire coming from Syrian government forces on the Syrian-Turkish border near the town of Akçakale.

Because Turkey is a member of Nato (for 50 years), a declaration of war by Turkey could well drag Nato into a conflict.

The Turkish people don’t like the turn of events … thousands of Turks  took to the the streets in Ankara and Istanbul after Turkey’s parliament approved military operations against targets in Syria following the mortar attacks.

The New York Times concedes:

It was unknown whether the mortar shells were fired by Syrian government forces or rebels fighting to topple the government of President Bashar al-Assad. The Turkish response seemed to assume that the Syrian government was responsible.

Many alternative news sources claim that this was a “false flag” attack to justify a Turkish attack on Syria.

Indeed, before the mortar attacks, Russia warned of such a possibility:

Russia expresses its concerns about the tense situation on the Syria-Turkey border and warns both to avoid tension.




Russia has urged restraint between Turkeyand Syria so as to avoid possible cross-border conflicts while telling world powers that they should not seek ways to intervene in the Syrian war.


Both Syrian and Turkish authorities “should exercise maximum restraint” since radical members of the Syrian opposition might deliberately provoke cross-border conflicts for their own benefits, Deputy Foreign Minister Gennady Gatilov said yesterday. The diplomat said Moscow has been worrying about the situation on the Syria-Turkey border… Turkey has sent a diplomatic note to Syria over the mortar bomb that hit the southeastern province of Akçakale on Sept. 28.

And false flag attacks have been planned to bring about regime change in Syria for 50 years (and the neocons planned regime change in Syria 20 years ago.)

But another possibility is that Syrian army forces were shooting at Syrian rebels near Akçakale and accidentally fired mortar a tad bit too far … across the border into Turkey.

Indeed, Turkey has been sheltering and training Syrian rebels,  and Akçakale is a key Syrian rebel supply route, which has seen numerous skirmishes in recent months.

Turkey has also been testing Syrian air defenses by sending its fighter jets into Syrian air space, and has threatened intervention for quite a while.

Moreover, in March, the Brookings Institute called for a multi-front assault on Syria to effect regime change, which includes attacks from Turkey. In its report entitled “Assessing Options for Regime Change”, Brookings argued (page 6):

In addition, Israel’s intelligence services have a strong knowledge of Syria, as well as assets within the Syrian regime that could be used to subvert the regime’s power base and press for Asad’s removal. Israel could posture forces on or near the Golan Heights and, in so doing, might divert regime forces from suppressing the opposition. This posture may conjure fears in the Asad regime of a multi-front war, particularly if Turkey is willing to do the same on its border and if the Syrian opposition is being fed a steady diet of arms and training. Such a mobilization could perhaps persuade Syria’s military leadership to oust Asad in order to preserve itself. Advocates argue this additional pressure could tip the balance against Asad inside Syria, if other forces were aligned properly.

The bottom line is that we don’t know whether the recent mortar attacks near Akçakale were a false flag attack by the Syrian rebels to justify war by Turkey against the Asad regime or an attempt by Syrian government troops to hit rebels gone too far, and accidentally ending up in Turkey.

One thing is for sure: this incident can’t be taken in a vacuum, especially since a large proportion of the rebel fighters are Al Qaeda.

Ron Paul: “What I Fear The Most Is a False Flag – Something Happening Where One of Our Ships Goes Down, Or … a Plane Goes Down, And of Course It HAD To Be The Iranians, You Know, For Sure, For Certain”

Will a False Flag Be the Start of An Iran War?

Ron Paul said recently (at 28:00):

What I fear the most is a false flag – something happening where one of our ships goes down, or there’s a plane that goes down, and of course it HAD to be the Iranians, you know, for sure, for certain.

(Paul previously warned of a “Gulf of Tonkin type incident” in Iran.)

Paul joins numerous other high-level government officials who have warned that a false flag may be launched against Iran to start a war:

  • The highly influential Brookings Institution wrote a report in 2009 called “Which Path to Persia?” which states (pages 84-85):

It would be far more preferable if the United States could cite an Iranian provocation as justification for the airstrikes before launching them. Clearly, the more outrageous, the more deadly, and the more unprovoked the Iranian action, the better off the United States would be.Of course, it would be very difficult for the United States to goad Iran into such a provocation without the rest of the world recognizing this game, which would then undermine it. (One method that would have some possibility of success would be to ratchet up covert regime change efforts in the hope that Tehran would retaliate overtly, or even semi-overtly, which could then be portrayed as an unprovoked act of Iranian aggression.)

  • A number of very high-level former intelligence officers – including several that personally briefed presidents every day on matters of national security – stated that better communications between the U.S. and Iran were needed to “reduce the danger of … covert, false-flag attack”
  • One of America’s top constitutional and military law experts – Jonathan Turley – writes:

Many critics have argued that there is a concerted effort to push the United States into a war with Iran by supporters of Israel. Patrick Clawson, director of research for the highly influential pro-Israel Washington Institute for Near East Policy (WINEP) think tank, seemed intent to prove those rumors true this week in comments as a luncheon on “How to Build US-Israeli Coordination on Preventing an Iranian Nuclear Breakout.” Clawson casually discusses how to create a false flag operation to push the U.S. into war to overcome any reluctance by the public. We have been discussing how many leaders like Senator Joe Lieberman had begun to use the same rhetoric that led to the last two wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and how the suggest timing of an attack has been tied to the presidential election.


In his remarks, Clawson helpfully lists a series of historical events used to push the country into war like the Gulf of Tonkin incident that gave us the Vietnam War. Clawson expressed his frustration in acknowledging that it is “[v]ery hard for me to see how the United States President can get us to war with Iran.” However, there is hope. Clawson explains that the “traditional way” to get the country into a war is through false flags or manufactured incidents where Americans are killed. Thus, he observes, “we are in the game of using covert means against the Iranians, we could get nastier about it. So, if in fact the Iranians aren’t going to compromise, it would be best if somebody else started the war.”


The fact that one of the leading analysis for the WINEP would feel comfortable in making such comments is itself quite chilling. It indicates that such discussions have become sufficiently regular that it has creeped into public discussion. It is a measure of the secret pressure building to push this country into a third major war despite our crippling economic conditions and losses in military personnel. The assumption in Washington is that neither Romney nor Obama could oppose such a war. Even if Obama does not publicly support Israel, the assumption is that political allies of Israel in Washington can guarantee that we would offer extensive military loans and intelligence. Even if there is a delay in such military loans and support, the assumption is that Israel can go to war with the understanding that the United States will cover a significant portion of the costs. Moreover, in his remarkably candid remarks, Clawson shows how the U.S. can easily be forced into direct combat by pushing Iran to simply kill some Americans or sink a few of our ships. Then members would be clamoring for revenge. Notably, the Israelis have been ratcheting up the war rhetoric in pushing Iran, which predictably has now reserved the right to engage in a preemptive strike not just against Israeli but U.S. interests. We would then, again, find ourselves in a war without any public debate or collective decision.

While Clawson adds a passing caveat that he is not advocating such an approach, his remarks are clearly designed to show how the group can get the United States into a war for Israel if only we can get Iran to kill some of our citizens or soldiers. Those people are of course expendable props in Clawson’s realpolitik.


By the way, Clawson has been enlisted to give his insightful analysis at the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank. He is also a member of the National Defense University’s Institute for National Strategic Studies. The World Bank connection is particularly interesting given the history with Paul Wolfowitz who pushed the U.S. into two disastrous wars in the Bush Administration and was rewarded with being made the head of the World Bank.


It is the callous disconnect that is most chilling in these remarks. Thousands of U.S. soldiers have died or have been crippled for life in these wars that have left the country near bankruptcy (and increasingly hostile “allies” in Afghanistan and Iraq). Those casualties and costs, however, appear immaterial in the discussion of supporting Israel in a war against Iran.


It seems like the U.S., Israel and their allies want to start wars against Syria and Iran as badly as this lion wants to eat this little guy:

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Boxed Merlot's picture

Speaking of false flags, I know the game's not over yet, but my nomination for the next chairsatan is Derek Jeter.  

Did you see that smile after deeking the runner?

I hope the replay in Utah caught that.




riley martini's picture

 More people are killed from economic warfare than from military action. The very young , old and the sick die first . The only thing to reduce the world population was economic turmoil after 1929. Check world population chart.

mess nonster's picture

Only bankers get to eat babies!

thruid's picture

I have followed our MSM and RT over the past couple of years.  Anything that is reported by either is open to corroboration or debunking.   The Russians I believe have discovered something that previous American administrations understood.  RT does not challenge our MSM over the TV air waves, it does not need to.  The older generations in the US get their information from the TV.  The Ron Paul generation does not get its information via TV and neither will successive generations.  I believe that is one of the reasons his strongest support came from the youngest adult generation. 

The Russians remember how the radio broadcasts by "Radio Free Europe" undermined their own propaganda at the early stages of the Cold War.  Now they are returning the favor.  The truth is the most effective weapon against propaganda.  I expect further moves in the future by our own government to limit information exchange via the internet.  Another SOPA or equally misnamed Act will no doubt be shoved down our throats by our increasingly fascist government.

supermaxedout's picture

What I would like to know: What was (is) the target of the Turkish artillery shootings back to Syria. The Assad troops or the the rebels ?

My best guess is, Turkey was shooting (or still is) onto the rebels. Otherwise one could have heard already hostile statements from the Syrian government against Turkey. But there is none.   My question is, do the Turks shoot at the rebels?   Thats not unlikely in my opinion.

What makes me also wonder, that the rebels claim from time to time to have conquered Syrian border posts along the Turkish/Syrian border.   Since these border posts are located in very remote places far away from the cities in Syria one could also get the idea that the rebels are pushed back to the borders and do not make progress inlands.

My impression is, that the rebels are at present trapped between the Turkish border and the Syrian army is pushing forward.  What makes me also think that things do not go well for US/UK is the fact that Turkey stopped the immigration of Syrian refuges. They are also trapped between the border and the Syrian troops. Looks like the situation is close to a culmination.  Assad made already an offer, that the families (women, children)  of the rebels have nothing to fear and that they can come back to Syria. One can think what he wants about this offer from Assad but at least it gives a little hope that not all is lost for these poor people.  I wonder why Saudi is not installing an airlift to give these poor individuals a relief.  Weapons are available unlimited but there is no Saudi money to help the victims of this civil war.  This shines no good light on Saudi and Quatar. They do not show real solidarity to their Sunni brothers and sisters. In the opposite, the more they suffer the better, because thats a good story for propaganda purposes.


Joe A's picture

False flags are falling early this autumn.

Yen Cross's picture

 George, I appreciate your persistance.  Do you have a personal life?   You seem to be enveloped in "strategic anomolies".

  No worries, my O's are tagged.

Oldwood's picture

While i am open to arguments as to why Syria would openly pick a fight with Turkey at a time they know the world is just itching to kick their ass, i think the false flag thing is over used. The premis that if you can think of a plausible explanation counter to public opinion it must be a false flag is flawed. The whole world has taken as its primary occupation the rationalization of their beliefs. Its healthy to look at other perspectives but if EVERYTHING is not what it seems, then who isn't living in illusion? Who do you trust and what is the point? 

Nehweh Gahnin's picture

Oh yeah, we should cut the MSM a break.  It's not like we've been at war for 11 years due to lies, right?  /sarc off


Fool me once, shame on you...

Chuck Walla's picture

If  Obama believes a False Flag attack will help his re-election, then thats what we will have. A newly invigorated MSM will forget al the anti-Iraq vitriol and begin baying like the dogs they are.  If he doesn't think it will help, well, then his master, Georgi Soros, may have to weigh in.


otto skorzeny's picture

all of the local news' are presenting it as the Syrians are doing the shooting. this "attack" about as much sense as if the US tried ro attack GB during our Civil War.

ScotlandTheBrave's picture

Look at the map boys...Syria stands in the way of a trans Saudi-Europe pipeline going through Jordan, Lebanon and...Syria into Turkey. Putan and his pals want to keep that pipeline from happening because it will kill their gas markets in Europe. NATO wants this because their masters want that pipeline to be done. The House of Saud wants this pipeline too and they have extensive tribal contacts in Syria. Syria is majority Sunni. The fix is in.

lakecity55's picture

I love that saying. The Fix Is In.

Let us hope cooler heads prevail.

Let the Russians to run the pipeline, give them a license fee; or help Russians build a secondary market.

It's like booze under the Volstaed Act. Those involved need to agree on "Territory."

Saudis win, Russians win.

Surely a $Deal$ can be made.

Element's picture

Is there some insurmountable problem with it going through Jordan and Israel instead?  Companies that invest in such pipelines assess geopolitical trends very closely, and Govts and their institutions of law and order and military trend.  They look for the areas most likely to remain stable over the life of such a pipeline.  Looking at Lebanon and Syria today would lead any major investor to walk away.  What people don't realise is that every one of these insurgent rebellions and internal wars results in decades of animosity and armed militancy and political unrest.  This is not where I'd want to spend billions to build a pipeline that would take at least a decade of operations to recoup the investment capital needed build it.

Nice soft geopolitical target and energy vulnerability though.

Hence tankers and big navies.

New_Meat's picture

one wonders about the "false flag" commentary here, when even the vaunted NYT can't figure out which way the projo is going.  Seems that they are confused as to which side to support in the current incarnation of "Yellow Journalism".

GW will be sensitive to these factors (and I'm not being sarcastic here, why I love him and wish him to continue to do well).

- Ned

mobius8curve's picture

Mr. Adams, chapter 8 of Revelation does not occur till the end of the tribulation as the year of wrath commences. There is an eighth year not taught just as there is an eighth day in the feast of Tabernacles. There will be no nuclear holocaust until that year.

ZeroAvatar's picture

Jesus preached that the rapture would happen 'in his generation',  but that didn't happen, either. So much for your 'timetables'.

Boxed Merlot's picture

Your assertion is pretty much a misnomer   The term “rapture” has developed a somewhat cult following among some professed 20th Christians to give the earth a greater value than it ultimately has.  This is somewhat akin to the way Jews thought prior to 70 AD that God would never allow Jerusalem to fall. 


 Jesus taught his disciples to flee to the mountains when the signs of the besieging of Jerusalem by Rome would take place.  For those Jews that didn’t believe and “flee to the mountains” like the believers in Jesus did, they met their death in the fall of Jerusalem.

The believers on the other hand did survive in the diaspora and though the Jews would no longer be able to trace their physical lineage back through Abraham due to the temple records being destroyed, the new Christians could claim ancestry through the adoption of kinship through faith in Jesus.

The resurrection and subsequent ascension of Jesus into the true, literal and ethereal Holy of Holies where he sits as the fulfillment of Jewish temple similes has taken place.  He himself said his kingdom is not of this world and only those that hear his voice can and would understand the true nature of his calling.  He is ruling and his enemies are currently being placed under his feet.  He has already defeated death by virtue of his rising and that’s the comfort believers all share.

The so-called rapture and subsequent 3 and a half years of this kind of rule and 3 and a half years of that kind of rule are a recent invention and peculiarity of 19th and 20th century US English application of New Testament interpretations that have no basis in historical Christianity.


Just sayin.


lakecity55's picture

There are several disagreements between Theologians on the "Rapture."

Protestant and Othodox and Catholic scholars have differing opinions.

If you read the Bible's Prophecies, it is hard not to compare them to today's headlines, though.

Boxed Merlot's picture

If you read the Bible's Prophecies, it is hard not to compare them to today's headlines, though...


Agreed.  I particularly like the way many people see the NSA as ruling the cloud with and when the Utah facility becomes fully "operational".  "The cloud" is more in line with the arena of influence governed by the divine and not man.

Interested though that it will be the dumping place of all communications made through "electronic" medium and that every word will be able to be brought back for scrutiny.   

otto skorzeny's picture

God's timetable is a little longer than ours.

old naughty's picture

I don't think God has a timetable. HE has patience.

We follow a timetable but have no patience.

Wonder who made up the timetable?

Boxed Merlot's picture

Wonder who made up the timetable?...

I like to think the reason for divine patience lies in the aseity of God.  Time is an irrelevancy to a self-existent and sustaining being as eternality must by definition belong to a “Creator”. But because the creation is in motion, we as creatures are of necessity and by definition subject to it governing authority, i.e. day / night, seasons and cycles. 

 Thereby, the notion of “timetable” pertains to our creature-liness but patience is virtuous as it’s tied to divine eternality.

Just thinkin.


carbon's picture

wonder what happen to ron paul 

Mad Mad Woman's picture

I don't really think the Russians are behind what's going on in Syria. There's something else going on there and that's why China, the US and the Russians are reluctant at this point to get involved in the conflict in Syria. Syria is trying to draw Turkey into their mess and they want to make it an even bigger mess. There's some dark shit going on there.

GMadScientist's picture

More like the CIA wants to get Turkey (NATO) "involved" because it's easier than faking another yellowcake memo and writing a UN mushroom speech.

otto skorzeny's picture

I think Assad has enough on his plate without him wanting the Turks getting involved.

Peter Pan's picture

Iran needs to strike first and at a cost of $20 billion it could bring the US and its allies to their knees.


All it has to do is have its agents co-ordinate a silver buying spree for $20 to $30 billion or so and watch the markets and JP Morgan go ballistic.

Sanctions might not be fair but at least do not kill innocent people. A silver bullet by the Iranians aimed at the financial system would be fair retaliation.

lakecity55's picture

That would be great for PM holders, but Iran is cut off from SWIFT. They would have to find a co-conspirator.

"Hello, Vlad? Dinner Jacket calling. I have a cunning Plan"

Pants McPants's picture

Sanctions don't kill innocent people? Are you serious?

I suggest you google "Madeline Albright Iraqi children sanctions death was worth it"

I hope I'm misreading you or you mistyped because what you've written above is horribly inaccurate.

Peter Pan's picture

I understand what you mean and I agree. I was simply saying that somehow sanctions come to an end and people seem to survive through them despite great hardship. Dropping bombs howver is not a better alternative.

Element's picture

maybe, but at least its being honest about what you really want to do to the people of that country.

Mad Mad Woman's picture

A silver buying spree? Seriously?  I don't think so. It will be a military false flag event.

tony bonn's picture

the neocon war mongerers won't shut their murdering mouths until they have their war and i fear that they may well get it.....

SafelyGraze's picture

the lion is pre-emptively protecting itself from future harm it may receive from the individual seated on the ground.

because some people shoot lions, and because you can't know whether this particular person might be one of the future lion-shooters, the only rational action is to preliminate the threat. 

that is, if you're a rational lion.

razorthin's picture

Since you are going to die - the only certainty there is, why not preemptively kill yourself?

Just replacing your analogy with one that better describes the situation.

SafelyGraze's picture

alternatively, you could use tsa as the better analogy of pre-emptively cavity-searching and confiscating and detaining because who knows what you might be planning to do.

it's all about imagination. whoever can out-imagine the terrible act the other might do. 

are you listening, bahama islands? for all we know you've developed some sort of drone disabling technology. just to be on the safe side, we're re-regiming you. -HRC, sosotus

razorthin's picture

Yes, them "pro-life" "Christians".  You know the ones who apparently forget there is a New Testament.  Their actions suggest they side with the Pharisees and Sadducees over Jesus.

GMadScientist's picture

But mindless hate is so much more viscerally satisfying.

SafelyGraze's picture

evidently they side with rp also

hey, let's foment religious flamewars on zh over hot-button issues!

Randy Goodnight's picture

Too bad we can't throw the parents into the lion's den.

MrSteve's picture

So, is a reasonable parallel here the Libyan embassy massacre being presumed to be a false flag, enabling Obama's Las Vegas fundraising trip? Does the lengthy denial of the massacre by the White House and friends confirm or dis the false flag aspect?

Was the recent US mega-bank cyber attack also a false flag operation?

Was the Ft. Hood massacre a US Army-sourced false flag atrocity? The shooter is reported to be a US Army officer. Or was he a fall guy.

Is Iranian enriching uranium and missile-based war games another false flag cooked up by the CIA?

Does Russia have anything to gain by distracting Turkey or misleading Syrian forces with its interest in Cyprus' ocean-based gas fields?

Can charges of a false flag operation be yet another application of "voices prophesying war" to control a political conversation and preemptively "stiffle" opposition?

How can anyone who is not onsite make an informed conclusion?




Mad Mad Woman's picture

The Libayan Embassy attack was a false flag event gone wrong by the US.

The mega bank cyber attack was NO false flag event by the US. 

Fort Hood?  Fall guy.

Iran enriching uranium?  False intell to try to provoke war. False intell and false flag 2 different things.

Russia has nothing to gain.



CompassionateFascist's picture

Right, Steve: the baby is Israel, the Lion is Iran.

cossack55's picture

Isn't the word "Brookings" the Farsi word for "nazi".  I know they have a lot in common. 

eatapeach's picture

Hasbara on the way!

disabledvet's picture

Much of what has happened media wise has gone overwhelmingly "according to the battle plan" by which Israel is defended. Of course. To expect otherwise is to sound the extent anyone is paying attention at all of course. What is interesting is the soundings of "Kurdistan." Is a play into Syria a way to keep Turkey "whole"? The implications would be dramatic to say the least. Then there was the Pope's visit to Beirut...barely covered here of course...but spectacular as much for its bravery as for the statement of peace he was sending. And to add some music to your "mighty wind" i've chosen this number:

Row Well Number 41's picture

"Remember... The enemy has only images and illusions, behind which he hides his true motives. Destroy the image... And you will break the enemy"

Spoken by the only man Chuck Norris feared. 

The trick is to know who your enemy truely is, and remember not to believe your own images and illusions.


falak pema's picture

the french press is rumouring that al-Qaeda elements and Iran elements are doing most of the shelling in Syria. 

In order to avoid excessive overt Syrian spilling Syrian blood, the most rabid elements are foreign infiltrators. 

That puts an eerie twist to this conflict. We saw this also in the Libya uprising with Qatari elements, as French special forces, on the ground. 

In the 1970s King Hussein of Jordan used a Pak legion, as others, to quell Palestinian refugee revolt under Arafat in black September 1970. They pushed Arafat into Lebanon.

But Turkey is now becoming ensnared in this hot potato.  If the Turks move big time it will be to preempt a Kurd strategy from emerging with a Syrian/Iraki oil rich buffer state. 

Russia looks on, as in Georgia where the recent election results are a step in its favour.