FBI Director: I Have to Check to See If Obama Has the Right to Assassinate Americans On U.S. Soil

George Washington's picture

Fox News reports:

FBI Director Robert Mueller on Wednesday said he would have to go back and check with the Department of Justice whether Attorney General Eric Holder’s “[criteria] for the targeted killing of Americans also applied to Americans inside the U.S.




“I have to go back. Uh, I’m not certain whether that was addressed or not,” Mueller said when asked by Rep. Tom Graves, R-Ga., about a distinction between domestic and foreign targeting


Graves followed up asking whether “from a historical perspective,” the federal government has “the ability to kill a U.S. citizen on United States soil or just overseas.”


“I’m going to defer that to others in the Department of Justice,” Mueller replied.


Indeed, Holder’s Monday speech at Northwestern University seemed to leave the door open.

Constitutional expert Jonathan Turley writes:

One would hope that the FBI Director would have a handle on a few details guiding his responsibilities, including whether he can kill citizens without a charge or court order.




He appeared unclear whether he had the power under the Obama Kill Doctrine or, in the very least, was unwilling to discuss that power. For civil libertarians, the answer should be easy: “Of course, I do not have that power under the Constitution.”




The claim that they are following self-imposed “limits” which are meaningless — particularly in a system that is premised on the availability of judicial review. The Administration has never said that the [Law Of Armed Conflicts] does not allow the same powers to be used in the United States. It would be an easy thing to state. Holder can affirmatively state that the President’s inherent power to kill citizens exists only outside of the country. He can then explain where those limits are found in the Constitution and why they do not apply equally to a citizen in London or Berlin. Holder was not describing a constitutional process of review. They have dressed up a self-imposed review of a unilateral power as due process. Any authoritarian measure can be dressed up as carefully executed according to balancing tests, but that does not constitute any real constitutional analysis. It is at best a loose analogy to constitutional analysis.


When reporters asked the Justice Department about Mueller’s apparent uncertainty, they responded that the answer is “pretty straightforward.” They then offered an evasive response. They simply said (as we all know) that “[t]he legal framework (Holder) laid out applies to U.S. citizens outside of U.S.” We got that from the use of the word “abroad.” However, the question is how this inherent authority is limited as it has been articulated by Holder and others. What is the limiting principle? If the President cannot order the killing of a citizen in the United States, Holder can simply say so (and inform the FBI Director who would likely be involved in such a killing). In doing so, he can then explain the source of that limitation and why it does not apply with citizens in places like London. What we have is a purely internal review that balances the practicality of arrest and the urgency of the matter in the view of the President. Since the panel is the extension of his authority, he can presumably disregard their recommendations or order a killing without their approval. Since the Administration has emphasized that the “battlefield” in this “war on terror” is not limited to a particular country, the assumption is that the President’s authority is commensurate with that threat or limitless theater of operation. Indeed, the Justice Department has repeatedly stated that the war is being fought in the United States as well as other nations.


Thus, Mueller’s uncertainty is understandable . . . and dangerous. The Framers created a system of objective due process in a system of checks and balances. Obama has introduced an undefined and self-imposed system of review ….

Before you assume that Mueller’s comments are being blown out of proportion, remember that it has been clear for some time that Obama has claimed the power to assassinate U.S. citizens within the U.S. As we pointed out in December:

I’ve previously noted that Obama says that he can assassinate American citizens living on U.S. soil.

This admittedly sounds over-the-top. But one of the nation’s top constitutional and military law experts – Jonathan Turley – agrees.




Turley said [on C-Span]:

President Obama has just stated a policy that he can have any American citizen killed without any charge, without any review, except his own. If he’s satisfied that you are a terrorist, he says that he can kill you anywhere in the world including in the United States.


Two of his aides just … reaffirmed they believe that American citizens can be killed on the order of the President anywhere including the United States.


You’ve now got a president who says that he can kill you on his own discretion. He can jail you indefinitely on his own discretion




I don’t think the the Framers ever anticipated that [the American people would be so apathetic]. They assumed that people would hold their liberties close, and that they wouldn’t relax …

Indeed, given that virtually any American could be considered a suspected terrorist these days, no one is safe from an all-powerful president’s whims.

As I noted in another context, circular reasoning provides all the justification needed:


The government’s indefinite detention policy – stripped of it’s spin – is literally insane, and based on circular reasoning. Stripped of p.r., this is the actual policy:

  • If you are an enemy combatant or a threat to national security, we will detain you indefinitely until the war is over
  • But trust us, we know you are an enemy combatant and a threat to national security

See how that works?

And – given that U.S. soldiers admit that if they accidentally kill innocent Iraqis and Afghanis, they then “drop” automatic weapons near their body so they can pretend they were militants – it is unlikely that the government would ever admit that an American citizen it assassinated was an innocent civilian who has nothing at all to do with terrorism.

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winter2012's picture

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dizzyfingers's picture
Media Cover-Up Of Obama Impeachment Exposed! http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=hc112-107 happening now
Landrew's picture

Why isn't everyone stating the obvious? O'Bummer must be impeached! Holder made the confession that due process was violated! O'Bummer must be impeached now! Write every Congressman to act on impeachment now!

kiwidor's picture

Impeached?  Here we go again with namby pamby solutions.

how about just shoot them?  essentially, they've written rules to allow them to do that to you.  so, there is no social contract and USA'rs are not operating under a system of laws, just a system of 'whatever we feel like'.

shoot first, ask no questions, and don't get caught.  once a few batches of them are deaded they'll get the message.



earleflorida's picture

Robert [*Mr. Fix-it-fer-ya] Mueller: a specialist in xenophobic adjunct reciprocity,... this white sepulcher beyond reproach! 

sad tale it tis,  GW

Shylockracy's picture

Jesus James Angleton! The US has 4% of the World population and 25% of the World's carcerary population. 3 in every 100 Americans are doing time in Jail. That's more in absolute and relative terms than the combined carcerary population of Russia and China. As if the American Gulag wasn't enough, and covert assassination of US citizens had not been a fact of life since the Civil War; now what? .gov wishes a licence to celebrate their achievements/terminations with maximum prejudice on National network?

DosZap's picture


Leagalize Mary Jane with a scrip, and tax it,(like booze) and 40% of the prison popuation  would empty.

Ag1761's picture

Seriously thinking about holidaying in the USA this summer, flying into LAX and then doing the gold country thing, kindofa close to my heart just now. Bring with me some sterling GBP before it's worthless. After reading this article, I think I'll just stay at ome and buy a few Oz gold. Fucking madness rules.

blindman's picture

what do rights have to do with it? the president is to
uphold his duty not exercise his rights, he can do that
on his own time. while he is acting as president he must
uphold the constitution which requires adherence to the law
and a balance of powers and protecting the constitution
and the people of the united states, not killing them.
if that isn't clear there are jobs for doormen and dishwashers
that need to be filled.

blindman's picture

ps. the president is not elected to exercise his rights,
he is elected to protect the rights of american citizens /
persons. this distinction needs to be shouted from the
highest place my friends, the language is being tortured
by fascists along with the constitution and many innocent victims
around the world as well as on the soil of the u.s.a.
challenge abuses, always.

gcjblack's picture

Fellow Police States:   Wait for Canada, We’re Coming!

There’s a security gap in the world, and Canada is it.  When it comes to the police states of today, Canada is a simplistic, bleeding heart Pollyanna who wears rose coloured glasses.  Fortunately, Canada’s Federal Minister for Public Safety, Vic Toews, has introduced Bill C30 to enable the police to get everybody’s Internet surfing records without Court Order or warrant.  I can soon foresee police computers automatically and continuously scanning all these Internet databases, looking for all crimes that occurred or are suspected.  The average citizen has no need to worry immediately, as I’m sure the police will start by focussing first and especially on the political opposition members, and all citizens who dare complain about anything.

Canada’s Federal government isn’t the only one helping close our police state shortfall.  Ontario Provincial Police (“OPP”) already have police cruisers covered with cameras that automatically scan for all vehicle license plates within view of the cruiser; whether oncoming traffic, in front, behind or beside the cruiser.  The police computer automatically reads all license plates and searches the police database, looking for anything interesting.  If something is found, or the police are bored, the lights and sirens go on, and the chase begins.

However, the world-wide competition for best police state is fierce.  Today, the United States can lock up anybody forever without trial, even its own citizens, by merely declaring “National Security”, “Enemy Combatant” or “terrorist suspect”.  Also, the President of the United States can target anybody world-wide with drone airplanes or otherwise, killing the suspect merely on the President’s whim; bypassing the need for evidence, police, attorneys, courts, jail, and executioners.  Nothing could be faster and more efficient for cutting court backlogs; reducing the high cost of justice, and the federal deficit.  Should Canada have totalitarian despots, or kangaroo courts?  It’s so hard to choose!

While the efforts of Minister Toews and the OPP are good starts, Canada needs to do better on its police state crackdowns.  Here is one idea that nobody else has as of yet, enabling Canada to close the police state gap, and leapfrog out in front of everybody else.  Many Canadian cars have a GPS system, giving the driver directions to every address and point of interest, using GPS satellites to accurately locate the car within 5 meters.  GPS manufacturers could be forced to make all Canadian GPS systems store the location of that vehicle every moment of the day.  When any Canadian drives past a police car, or drives past one of the millions of police surveillance antennas to be placed along all roads, the police can automatically interrogate the citizen’s GPS by wireless.  Location-time data for the last year for each vehicle can be instantly downloaded and compared to all the crimes listed in the police database.  If any vehicle was within 25 km of any crime scene within a 4 hr. period of when the crime occurred, the driver has some explaining to do to the police.  Just think how wary the criminals will be soon after this GPS upgrade is in place!

Of course, some criminals may react by leaving their car behind, by walking or riding their bicycle.  So as to avoid this loop-hole in our Canadian police state, we must also develop an improved prisoner ankle bracelet, placing one on every human ankle in Canada.  That’s when we will be truly safe, and Canada will win the award for the best police state in the world.

Police states are all about fear.  What scares me most of all?  I fear there are more than a few people in our oppressive, freedom threatening world of today who think all the above ideas are great, and are unable to detect my sarcasm.

DosZap's picture

The US Gub, is far from the worst.....................choose almost any ME country, or Russia,NK, and esp China.

They just pop whoever they want,imprison whoever they want,gut,behead, and put a 7.62x25 in the back of the heads of anyone deemed an Enemy.

And SELL their organs to the highest bidder OPENLY.

The Chinese were selling aborted fetus on the streets for sale to eat............THE day that happened here would be the END of this country.(sick MOFO's)

ZERO free speech, none.................speak out against the Rulers, and POOF your history.

Although WE are definitley well on the way to their examples,at breakneck speed.

AndTheRest's picture

This is a great article and I will reference it when in discussions overseas after fleeing the American police state when someone asks me why I left America.


Many young Europeans actually want to come to the U.S. because they think we are all living the Hollywood/TV lifestyle projected in our popular media.  You know, huge houses, bleached white teeth, plenty of time to eat right and exercise, fancy cars, etc.


Little do they know that at least half of America is living in poverty and misery.  And apparently all evidence of the fascist police state is not making it into their news stream.  The assassinations, the kidnapings, the torture, the SWAT raids, the massive prison population, etc.

blindman's picture

slightly off topic ...
MF Global Trustee Freeh Asks Court to Pay MF Global Executive Bonuses

"The entitlement of the financial class is the gift that keeps on giving.
And as for the customers? They are being asked to surrender their legal rights in order to receive partial payments.
Let them eat...er, is that even cake?" j.c.a.

kill switch's picture

All I can say is,  You Gotta be shitting me


This fucking spaceship has gone apollo 13

blindman's picture

at least flip a coin. heads you go to jail
for life, tails you get your f..ing bonus. ?

blindman's picture

the new standard for becoming president of the united states,
one must be pathological but a good public speaker. that is all.

chemystical's picture

hardly a "new" standard - particularly in the context of this Bari thread where the event referred to dates back more than 21 yrs.

blindman's picture

right, so here corrected.
the standard for becoming a high public official of the united states
one must be pathological but a good public speaker, that is all.

sun tzu's picture

be able to read the teleprompter. the lamestream media will cover up any gaffes and crimes

blindman's picture

i should correct that statement to say
"high public official" rather than "president".
yes, the truth has no place in the public discourse.

chemystical's picture

I recently read that Obama told British actress Emily Blunt how much he enjoyed her work.   I wonder whether she has any plans to appear in a film version of "Our American Cousin"?  Also, I hear that Ford Theater is available as a venue for the movie's premier.  Just sayin....

PS I feel safe in making that statement here because I have more faith in ZH'ers' ability to connect the dots than I do in the Treasury's SS agents'.

Element's picture

If someone from the FBI is reading this thread, the actual answer is, "Hell no!"

These are not the values of the Western World I grew up in.

These are totally foreign to us.

They are not from any self-respecting Western country or govt.

This is certainly not from our culture. 

So who's culture is it from?

This is exactly what we were taught to not do, and to never allow others to do.

So some lame-arse pseudo-president of USSA wants a squall of globalised murder?

That's interesting ... I wonder where he learned this as a boy?

And let's not mention that the hopeless prick studied LAW, so he knows very bloody well that everything he's doing is illegal and utterly immoral as well.


We'll need basic facts like that to be made clear at his trial.

nmewn's picture


And, because those of us who wore the "wrong color" pointed out that his concept of "liberty" was very different from what we knew, cherished and swore to protect, we were derided as "political hacks & shills".

Again...his view of the Constitution as "a charter of negative liberties"...

"If you look at the victories and failures of the civil rights movement and its litigation strategy in the court. I think where it succeeded was to invest formal rights in previously dispossessed people, so that now I would have the right to vote. I would now be able to sit at the lunch counter and order as long as I could pay for it I’d be o.k. But, the Supreme Court never ventured into the issues of redistribution of wealth, and of more basic issues such as political and economic justice in society.

To that extent, as radical as I think people try to characterize the Warren Court, it wasn’t that radical. It didn’t break free from the essential constraints that were placed by the founding fathers in the Constitution, at least as its been interpreted and Warren Court interpreted in the same way, that generally the Constitution is a charter of negative liberties. Says what the states can’t do to you. Says what the Federal government can’t do to you, >>>but doesn’t say what the Federal government or State government must do on your behalf,<<< and that hasn’t shifted and one of the, I think, tragedies of the civil rights movement was, um, because the civil rights movement became so court focused I think there was a tendency to lose track of the political and community organizing and activities on the ground that are able to put together the actual coalition of powers through which you bring about redistributive change. In some ways we still suffer from that. …

I’m not optimistic about bringing about major redistributive change through the courts. You know, the institution just isn’t structured that way."


So as Supreme Leader I'll now decide what's right and wrong through simple fiat and dictates.

Who lives and who dies, which companies prosper and which go bankrupt, who buys what service/product or has to pay a fine to the state...now having completely broken free from the constraints (negative liberty) placed upon government by it's People.

Absolutely fucking Orwellian.

sun tzu's picture

Even Nazi Germany and the USSR would grant its citizens a kangaroo court hearing before killing them. The US government is acting a like the mafia. They will just make you disappear

Sathington Willougby's picture


Obey this one weird trick to protect all your records from would be members of Mystery, Inc sniffing around your sealed or faked vital statistics.

Sathington Willougby's picture


Use this one weird trick to assasinate your political enemies.

bigkahuna's picture

baby steps, baby steps...

Mareka's picture

Certainly it would be a crime for a president to order the killing of American citizens or anyone else for that matter. 

That's what gangsters and dictators do. 

Our government isn't killing people, they are targeting enemy combatants for strikes with military action.

See, when you paper it over with the right words it's all OK.

I still can't believe what I'm hearing when the new anchor delivers the line that the "suspects" were "killed" and doen't question what they are reading.

Since when is it OK to carry out a death scentence on suspects??????

blueridgeviews's picture

I don't need anymore proof that Obuma is a fake and has ZERO knowledge of the U.S. Constitution. To think that Harvard hired this buffoon to teach the youth is appalling. To think the Democrats hired this guy to lead the US is further proof that the Democrats are sick people.

Ayn Rand's picture

Why does he need knowledge of the constitution when has no intention of abiding by anything written in it?

Money 4 Nothing's picture

Loopholes.. know thy enemy.

anonnn's picture

re Fukusima Diachi failures:

Arnie Gundersen has new animated explanation/film of likely cause of hydrogen explosions. Namely, bolt-stretch under pressure on drywell cap [head] allowing release of gasses into building, followed by explosions. This phenomena first observed over 40 years ago at Brunswick, NC plant. And ignored!

Starts at about minute 44 of his latest presentation/interview, available now :



blindman's picture

another related link.
All of Western US and most of East Coast, Midwest, Canada covered with airborne particles at various altitudes on March 20, Fukushima plume model shows — Based solely on Reactor No. 1 explosion (PHOTO)

blindman's picture

Inside the Meltdown (2012)
the part about the electronic controls being flooded in the basement
seems to be a design flaw considering...
the facility is built on the shore and on a fault line.
you would think someone might have objected to this and was
quickly told to be quiet, your concern is not "economical".
i hesitate to think how costly it would have been to waterproof
the electronics that control the proper functioning of these
reactors. no one could see it coming.

blindman's picture

from wiki..
"A tyrant (Greek ????????, tyrannos) was originally one who illegally seized and controlled a governmental power in a polis. Tyrants were a group of individuals who took over many Greek poleis during the uprising of the middle classes in the sixth and seventh centuries BC, ousting the aristocratic governments.

Plato and Aristotle define a tyrant as, "one who rules without law, looks to his own advantage rather than that of his subjects, and uses extreme and cruel tactics—against his own people as well as others".[1]

In common usage, the word "tyrant" carries connotations of a harsh and cruel ruler who places his or her own interests or the interests of an oligarchy over the best interests of the general population, which the tyrant governs or controls. The Greek term carried no pejorative connotation during the Archaic and early Classical periods but was clearly a bad word to Plato, and on account of the decisive influence of political philosophy its negative connotations only increased down into the Hellenistic period. Becoming synonymous with Authenteo-another term which carried authoritarian connotations around the turn of the first century A.D.[citation needed]

During the sixth and seventh centuries BC, tyranny was often looked upon as an intermediate stage between narrow oligarchy and more democratic forms of polity. However, in the late fifth and fourth centuries, a new kind of tyrant, the military dictator, arose, specifically in Sicily.

blindman's picture

@"FBI Director: I Have to Check to See If Obama Has the Right to Assassinate Americans On U.S. Soil"
Fox News reports:
FBI Director Robert Mueller on Wednesday said he would have to go back and check with the Department of Justice whether Attorney General Eric Holder’s “[criteria] for the targeted killing of Americans also applied to Americans inside the U.S.
should read ...
Faux News reports:
FBI Director Robert Mueller on Wednesday said he would have to go back and check with the Department of Justice whether Attorney General Eric Holder’s “[criteria] for the targeted killing of Americans also applied to Americans inside the U.S. and whether
the administration was prepared in terms of its own security to inform the population
that the title "tyrant" may be more appropriate than the quaint titles "president",
"executive" or "commander in chief" (should congress ever officially declare
a state of permanent war on a set of tactics or a fictitious enemy.
the tyrant in chief said.." i may have the legal authority to act and govern
as a tyrant but, "trust me", the decisions will be coming from other authorities
outside the country, your concerns of potential abuse on my part are unfounded."
" if you read between the lines of the signing statements you you will see ....
the letter of the law has absolutely nothing to do with the methods used
under my tyranny. you must "trust me". after all under a tyrannic monetary
and government system the rule is not one of just law but of self serving
men who must be trusted and who remain unexamined". " the wars will continue
and the money, blood and oil will flow, god help amerika". "you don't ever
want to wake up from this nightmare, "trust me"".
a former pre public acknowledgement of the state of affairs-tyrant was overheard
commenting, " it all depends on what your definitions of the word "serve" is ".
another former tyrant sat by and giggled with a smirk, another was seen
drooling in his oatmeal.
which brings up a question, if a tyrant can kill those he is sworn to serve and
protect why can't he get a blow job from an intern in the oval office? or
torture the family dog for shitting on the carpet in the lincoln room? or
throwing rocks thru his neighbor's window. i bet if he threw a rock thru the
neighbor's window he would be impeached, but if he kills a few hundred americans
no one asks any questions? yes, we need to dial up eric holderplace and ask
these questions.

jwoop66's picture

Faux news?   Did any of the others - cnbcbsnbc - report anything?   If they even tell a small tidbit more than the others, it is a good thing.

blindman's picture

the main urine stream media is a foreign enterprise, an alien to this country.
they're all foreign agents.
" BAIN CAPITAL ( Mitt Romney's co.) syndicates Limbaugh,Hannity,Beck,Savage& Levin !

Have you been wondering ,( as I have),....why ...these so-called conservatives
on talk radio keep trashing RON PAUL???
Doesn't add up...doesn't make sense, right?....
WELL...now I can see how, and why this is happening.
It turns out, that CLEAR CHANNEL COMMUNICATIONS, owns Premiere Radio
Networks. Premiere Radio Networks OWNS EXCLUSIVE RIGHTS TO
Rush Limbaugh,Sean Hannity, and Glenn Beck....and....Premiere also syndicates
Michael Savage and Mark Levin radio shows.


answer: BAIN CAPITAL !!!!! of which MITT ROMNEY IS CEO!!!!!!
Some of this is beginning to come out in the print media reporting.
[link to www.clearchannel.com]
[link to cincinnati.com]
[link to www.huffingtonpost.com]"
The Story Behind The Story
With A. True Ott PhD

i-dog's picture

If it smells bad, there's usually a skeleton rotting away in the closet. Thanks for that. You're not so blind, man!

Joenobody12's picture

"  If you are a normal contributing member of society,........ " Do you mean docile ? If not, pleae define normal. You may feel secure even if you have to live in fear. I dont. Does a Chinese look normal to you ? Does a middle Easterner ?   

onthesquare's picture

How about the physically disabled or the mentally challenged?

The aged and infirmed?  Are they all normal to a contributing member of society.

Was King George III this bad?


AndTheRest's picture

Deaf guys get murdered by the police all the time.  Shot in the back for "failure to obey orders."


Mental incompetents get murdered all the time by the police as well, for similar reasons.


Any disobedience is met with lethal force in the American police state.  It doesn't matter to them if you're deaf or have the IQ of a small child, their job is to brutalize you and bring compliance.

Albertarocks's picture

I guess those in power have forgotten that when push comes to shove, assassination can be a two way street.  And what an incredibly stupid way to inspire the American people to commit some assassinations of their own.  WTF are they thinking?  That they're just going to be able to start assassinating good American citizens and get away with it scott free?  I'm afraid that when the body count starts to add up, it just isn't going to be seen as "fine with me" by the American people for very damned long.  Like I said... WTF are they thinking?  What we're really talking about here is corporate fascist America gone completely fucking mad.  Lest you need a reminder, the same thing happened in Germany.  The playbook hasn't changed one fucking iota since the days of a young Hitler.  Not one god damned bit.

Baleful Runes 4 U's picture

" I'm afraid that when the body count starts to add up, it just isn't going to be seen as "fine with me" by the American people for very damned long. "

yeah it has and will. It's a nation of 313 million pussies. Show me the evidence otherwise?

Bear's picture

The Pesident has the right to kill anyone ... don't you watch any movies?

Benjamin Glutton's picture

OT...but interesting.

Al Qaeda #1  Ayman al-Zawahiri and current partner in Syria...apparently used Bin Laden's youngest wife to help Obama shoot Binny in the eye. Did I mention Iran gets credit for an assist.?

Ayman al-Zawahiri, the Egyptian doctor often considered the real brains behind Al-Qaeda, "got fed up and decided to sideline" bin Laden when the leader started losing his mental faculties after the September 11, 2001 attacks.

Qadir says the Iranians released her in late 2010 and she returned to her husband, but first, spent several months in an Al-Qaeda camp in Afghanistan.

Two months after she arrived, the Americans raided the house. Qadir is convinced that Khairia betrayed her husband.

"Everything began to happen when Khairia arrived," he said. "Everybody had a problem with her. Before, the two other wives were living comfortably."

Bin Laden's grown-up son, Khalid, born to another Saudi wife, was also suspicious, Qadir said.

"He kept on asking her 'why have you come? What do you want from him?' She just responded 'I have one more duty to perform for my husband'.

"Khalid told his dad: 'I suspect she's going to betray you.' Bin Laden answered 'so be it'."

Bin Laden tried to persuade the other wives to leave for their own safety, but they refused, Qadir said.

The United States says it was tipped off much earlier by an Al-Qaeda courier. But Qadir contradicts that, stating that Zawahiri may have used Khairia as bait for the Americans.