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FBI Director: I Have to Check to See If Obama Has the Right to Assassinate Americans On U.S. Soil
Fox News reports:
FBI Director Robert Mueller on Wednesday said he would have to go back and check with the Department of Justice whether Attorney General Eric Holder’s “[criteria] for the targeted killing of Americans also applied to Americans inside the U.S.
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“I have to go back. Uh, I’m not certain whether that was addressed or not,” Mueller said when asked by Rep. Tom Graves, R-Ga., about a distinction between domestic and foreign targeting
Graves followed up asking whether “from a historical perspective,” the federal government has “the ability to kill a U.S. citizen on United States soil or just overseas.”
“I’m going to defer that to others in the Department of Justice,” Mueller replied.
Indeed, Holder’s Monday speech at Northwestern University seemed to leave the door open.
Constitutional expert Jonathan Turley writes:
One would hope that the FBI Director would have a handle on a few details guiding his responsibilities, including whether he can kill citizens without a charge or court order.
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He appeared unclear whether he had the power under the Obama Kill Doctrine or, in the very least, was unwilling to discuss that power. For civil libertarians, the answer should be easy: “Of course, I do not have that power under the Constitution.”
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The claim that they are following self-imposed “limits” which are meaningless — particularly in a system that is premised on the availability of judicial review. The Administration has never said that the [Law Of Armed Conflicts] does not allow the same powers to be used in the United States. It would be an easy thing to state. Holder can affirmatively state that the President’s inherent power to kill citizens exists only outside of the country. He can then explain where those limits are found in the Constitution and why they do not apply equally to a citizen in London or Berlin. Holder was not describing a constitutional process of review. They have dressed up a self-imposed review of a unilateral power as due process. Any authoritarian measure can be dressed up as carefully executed according to balancing tests, but that does not constitute any real constitutional analysis. It is at best a loose analogy to constitutional analysis.
When reporters asked the Justice Department about Mueller’s apparent uncertainty, they responded that the answer is “pretty straightforward.” They then offered an evasive response. They simply said (as we all know) that “[t]he legal framework (Holder) laid out applies to U.S. citizens outside of U.S.” We got that from the use of the word “abroad.” However, the question is how this inherent authority is limited as it has been articulated by Holder and others. What is the limiting principle? If the President cannot order the killing of a citizen in the United States, Holder can simply say so (and inform the FBI Director who would likely be involved in such a killing). In doing so, he can then explain the source of that limitation and why it does not apply with citizens in places like London. What we have is a purely internal review that balances the practicality of arrest and the urgency of the matter in the view of the President. Since the panel is the extension of his authority, he can presumably disregard their recommendations or order a killing without their approval. Since the Administration has emphasized that the “battlefield” in this “war on terror” is not limited to a particular country, the assumption is that the President’s authority is commensurate with that threat or limitless theater of operation. Indeed, the Justice Department has repeatedly stated that the war is being fought in the United States as well as other nations.
Thus, Mueller’s uncertainty is understandable . . . and dangerous. The Framers created a system of objective due process in a system of checks and balances. Obama has introduced an undefined and self-imposed system of review ….
Before you assume that Mueller’s comments are being blown out of proportion, remember that it has been clear for some time that Obama has claimed the power to assassinate U.S. citizens within the U.S. As we pointed out in December:
I’ve previously noted that Obama says that he can assassinate American citizens living on U.S. soil.
This admittedly sounds over-the-top. But one of the nation’s top constitutional and military law experts – Jonathan Turley – agrees.
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Turley said [on C-Span]:
President Obama has just stated a policy that he can have any American citizen killed without any charge, without any review, except his own. If he’s satisfied that you are a terrorist, he says that he can kill you anywhere in the world including in the United States.
Two of his aides just … reaffirmed they believe that American citizens can be killed on the order of the President anywhere including the United States.
You’ve now got a president who says that he can kill you on his own discretion. He can jail you indefinitely on his own discretion
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I don’t think the the Framers ever anticipated that [the American people would be so apathetic]. They assumed that people would hold their liberties close, and that they wouldn’t relax …
Indeed, given that virtually any American could be considered a suspected terrorist these days, no one is safe from an all-powerful president’s whims.
As I noted in another context, circular reasoning provides all the justification needed:
The government’s indefinite detention policy – stripped of it’s spin – is literally insane, and based on circular reasoning. Stripped of p.r., this is the actual policy:
- If you are an enemy combatant or a threat to national security, we will detain you indefinitely until the war is over
- It is a perpetual war, which will never be over
- Neither you or your lawyers have a right to see the evidence against you, nor to face your accusers
- But trust us, we know you are an enemy combatant and a threat to national security
- We may torture you (and try to cover up the fact that you were tortured), because you are an enemy combatant, and so basic rights of a prisoner guaranteed by the Geneva Convention don’t apply to you
- Since you admitted that you’re a bad guy (while trying to tell us whatever you think we want to hear to make the torture stop), it proves that we should hold you in indefinite detention
See how that works?
And – given that U.S. soldiers admit that if they accidentally kill innocent Iraqis and Afghanis, they then “drop” automatic weapons near their body so they can pretend they were militants – it is unlikely that the government would ever admit that an American citizen it assassinated was an innocent civilian who has nothing at all to do with terrorism.
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OT...but interesting.
Al Qaeda #1 Ayman al-Zawahiri and current partner in Syria...apparently used Bin Laden's youngest wife to help Obama shoot Binny in the eye. Did I mention Iran gets credit for an assist.?
Ayman al-Zawahiri, the Egyptian doctor often considered the real brains behind Al-Qaeda, "got fed up and decided to sideline" bin Laden when the leader started losing his mental faculties after the September 11, 2001 attacks.
Qadir says the Iranians released her in late 2010 and she returned to her husband, but first, spent several months in an Al-Qaeda camp in Afghanistan.
Two months after she arrived, the Americans raided the house. Qadir is convinced that Khairia betrayed her husband.
"Everything began to happen when Khairia arrived," he said. "Everybody had a problem with her. Before, the two other wives were living comfortably."
Bin Laden's grown-up son, Khalid, born to another Saudi wife, was also suspicious, Qadir said.
"He kept on asking her 'why have you come? What do you want from him?' She just responded 'I have one more duty to perform for my husband'.
"Khalid told his dad: 'I suspect she's going to betray you.' Bin Laden answered 'so be it'."
Bin Laden tried to persuade the other wives to leave for their own safety, but they refused, Qadir said.
The United States says it was tipped off much earlier by an Al-Qaeda courier. But Qadir contradicts that, stating that Zawahiri may have used Khairia as bait for the Americans.
http://news.yahoo.com/did-jealous-wife-deputy-betray-bin-laden-104200779...
I don't know what's more pathetic the disinfo tripe you're peddling or your assumption that that shit will fly here....Bin Laden Wives FTW...LOL
http://www.infowars.com/top-us-government-insider-bin-laden-died-in-2001...
"Top US government insider Dr. Steve R. Pieczenik, a man who held numerous different influential positions under three different Presidents and still works with the Defense Department, shockingly told The Alex Jones Show yesterday that Osama Bin Laden died in 2001 and that he was prepared to testify in front of a grand jury how a top general told him directly that 9/11 was a false flag inside job.
Pieczenik cannot be dismissed as a “conspiracy theorist”. He served as the Deputy Assistant Secretary of State under three different administrations, Nixon, Ford and Carter, while also working under Reagan and Bush senior, and still works as a consultant for the Department of Defense. A former US Navy Captain, Pieczenik achieved two prestigious Harry C. Solomon Awards at the Harvard Medical School as he simultaneously completed a PhD at MIT.
Recruited by Lawrence Eagleburger as Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Management, Pieczenik went on to develop, “the basic tenets for psychological warfare, counter terrorism, strategy and tactics for transcultural negotiations for the US State Department, military and intelligence communities and other agencies of the US Government,” while also developing foundational strategies for hostage rescue that were later employed around the world.
Pieczenik also served as a senior policy planner under Secretaries Henry Kissinger, Cyrus Vance, George Schultz and James Baker and worked on George W. Bush’s election campaign against Al Gore. His record underscores the fact that he is one of the most deeply connected men in intelligence circles over the past three decades plus."
I peddled nothing....as I understand it Zero Hedge is a forum for sorting out the truth. Your truth is that OBL has been dead for some time, ok. But what about the overarching implication of this new storyline?
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I don't know what's more pathetic the disinfo tripe you're peddling or your assumption that that shit will fly here....Bin Laden Wives FTW...LOL
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Did you miss my highlighting the absurdity of our new love interest...Al Qaeda #1 Ayman al-Zawahiri and current partner in Syria. This is me mocking the story.
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Yahoo swims right up the MSM and I believe it is important to know what all parties are saying at any given time. Being aware of what MSM is saying is helpful when trying to establish what .gov will do next. Are they(MSM/.gov) trying to rehab Al Qaeda for use in a desperate attempt to topple Syria on a short timeline?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvHJywCBNQg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxQLe535UyM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4c7lpBM_3DY
As I understand it McCain wants to impose a no fly zone in the north of Syria "for the rebels" but this no fly is more likely an attempt to grab and secure airspace over Syria to enable an attack on Iran. McCain also seems to admit that he is willing to forge a new alliance with Al Qaeda...all things considered this development is troubling at best.
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As for "Steve" he is just another source who likely brings truth on some issues and conjecture on others. His assertions are not unknown to me.
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I concede that there is much clouded truth surrounding 9/11 that MUST be dealt with but at the same time it IS important to decode current events as well. Very few posters here take MSM reports at face value generally questioning the facts as presented of every story or mocking accompanying opinion.
Lastly, you seem to be implying that I lack the sophistication to recognize psy-op. Your assumptions serve you poorly.
Al Q*eda is the bankster's latest boogieman brand to instill fear and effect looting and resource collectivization of the middle class and free enterprise capital markets.
The last time it was sponsoring the Bolshevik/Nazi Communist/Fascist control force.
So short answer, yes Al Q is being resurrected in Syria and everywhere else.
It's the Starbucks of Terror.
From your post all I saw was an over arc of the latest MSM tripe and there are numerous .gov shillbots that frequent ZH and they are just one variety of troll with a psyop agenda. If you are familiar with psyops then you should understand all the ways your opinion can be interpreted in such a forum.
Next time you might want to mix up your nuance or suggestion with italics or bold like you did in your response. Things move fast and furious here so collateral damage can happen, no offense.
I will be the first to defend the position that analysis is not advocacy. Carry on....
This is from Fox News so it has to be a lie. Obama would never do anything like this to American citizens. They're just trying to make him look bad. After all, look at what he's done:
- closed GTMO
- fixed the economy
- stopped the wars
- eliminated the deficit
- saved the dollar
- freed us from our dependence on fossil fuels in place of good, safe, green energy
- lowered gas, food, clothing prices
- sealed the border with Mexico
- brought an end to cronyism
- achieved spending control
- lowered taxes
- brought us all together in unity
Yes We Did!
Don't forget having the most transparent administration in history.
Move to Iran or North Korea you fucking shit-eating communist. I'm talking about you, George Washington. None of your articles are worth a kiss-my-ass, and all you ever do is motherfuck the USA.
From now on, whenever I see one of your articles here, instead of reading it, I will spend my time much more productively by going and taking a great big shit.
Fuck you and your psychotic conspiracy delusions.
Why move you stupid piece of shit. This kingdom, empire, is just as bad as the ones you mentioned .Take your head out of your ass and open your eyes.
Barack?! What are you doing up so late? Are you on that damn Zerohedge site again? Go to bed!
-Michelle
USA! USA! USA! USA! USA!
LOL!
The sad and pathetic thing is, Smokey, you probably actually think that YOU are "patriotic", when you are nothing but a brainwashed sheep, an unthinking lemming who unquestioningly follows the herd and blindly does as he is told, never questioning authority or your political assumptions. It is on the backs of people such as you, and with the blessings of ignorant and blind sheep such as you, that every repressive regime in history has been built.
Don't forget the types that voted for and still love Obama...
naw, he's right. GW is a conspiracy nut, and a poor one at that.
Cant believe zero hedge gives the guy a soapbax
Can't believe a chimp like you was able to type up a couple of sentences
So there's a bearded muslim cave dwelling scary "terrorist" running around Jersey shooting people and a guy from Newark with a gun shooting people because he's pissed off and no one can blame him. Here comes the FBI. The FBI agent says, "Stop if you're an American I will assassinate you". And then he says "stop, if you're not an American citizen I cannot assassinate you but I would please ask you to stop shooting people and maybe we can get a burger or something and talk about it. Thank you for your time." Is that about it?
They asked the FBI Director, "hey, can we shoot Americans in America?" He said, "I dunno but we can beat the shit out of innocent civilians anytime we want. Is that OK?"
Does that mean they can't shoot illegal Mexicans?
In that case.....como se lama.....burritto........taco....andele andele arrrriba arrrriba
http://www.sott.net/image/image/s4/93463/full/the_forgotten_man.jpg
Bankers starve people to death by the hundreds of thousands. Where in the constitution does it say we have to be subject to bankers? Time to overhaul the entire system
Really? At what point to you value Liberty and Freedom? Here's a thought: If you don't want to be subject to bankers then don't use a bank and don't apply for credit. It's a choice, not a mandate. I've lived debt free for 10 years and counting - it's a choice. But you see, many like the illusions of wealth and so, the run to the banker and beg to receive the loan for a new car - they don't need, a bigger house they don't need... So please; stop and check your logic.
What if I don't want to pay inflated food prices? You're always subject to the bankers unless you're living completely off the grid, at which point you wouldn't be reading ZeroHedge.
You're not debt free. You owe $15 trillion and you are being taxed to pay the interest on that debt.
You don't use a bank, but you still lost money on the bailouts of Fannie and Freddie. You still lost money on AIG and trillions on the Wall street bailouts.
I'd like to know how you pay your bills. Do you drive to the local utility company and pay in cash? When you purchase plane tickets, do you pay in cash?
Been there, done that. I stopped feeding the banksters 12 years ago. Haven't even had a bank account in over 9 years. It's a freaky thing to do, stepping outside of what everyone else considers "normal". I've got it down to an art now. I still blend in with the "normal" people but I use cash only (credit/debit cards gone long ago). And I don't keep much of that worthless paper, only enough to get by and buy such things as gas for my truck and some groceries when needed.
And NO, I won't tell you where my silver and gold are stashed!
I'm not standing in that line every month to pay my elec. bill!
I refuse to live like a hermit. I have accounts at local banks and credit unions. I don't like to drive everywhere to pay my bills for electricity, water, gas, phone, internet in cash. I don't have that kind of time on my hands. I like to travel and see the world. It's hard to do that carrying cash only. I don't even think you can buy a plane ticket in cash anymore.
@sun tzu - Read the book you wrote around 3,000 years ago.
If you want to fly around and see the world, go right ahead. How I pay for things and how I function in life will always be a mystery to you.
You wrote "The Art of War". I've read your book many times. You think you refuse to "live like a hermit"... but your lifestyle is that of a slave (I mean no offense, merely observing).
Yes, it is still possible to pay cash if you want a plane ticket.
How about a mortgage? Moral hazard, you know.
Same. Fleeing from civilization and living like a pariah in the woods, awaiting doomsday is not the solution for anyone under 60 years old. The Doomer cult is largely a bunch of old men hiding in their wooden shit shacks on 2-10 acres, waiting to die. It matters not whether it's the "black helicopters", aerial death drones, or old age - what the Doomers fear is death. That is their source of fear and paranoia.
For the rest of us, the solution is to flee the American police state before it gets any worse. Say what you will about European "socialist" nations, at least their governments don't arrest, imprison, and murder their people at anywhere near the levels that the fascist U.S. government does to Americans. Alternatively, for those a bit more adveturous, some of the governments of South America and Asia are simply too poor and too weak to impose and maintain the sort of high tech surveillance based police state that dominates the Anglosphere.
Let's declare bankers as terrorists and assasinate them. That might get Ron Paul elected.
Up arrowed, but putting assassinate and Paul in the same comment ... oh, now I see the spelling error!
Holder said that there many alternate forms of due process. I wonder which one of these alternate forms of due process is available to me if I ever get a traffic ticket? Should I simply claim that I have 'considered the matter carefully' before deciding it's in my best interest that I not pay the fine?
If I think my neighbor is planning a violent crime or is engaged in activities that might be considered suspicious, can I 'consider the matter carefully' before I put a bullet in his head 'for the good of the nation'?
I have to assume that should Obama be deposed in the upcoming election, if the next President decides that during Obama's term of office he did great harm to the nation he might decide to eliminate Obama after 'careful consideration'... Obama would be okay with this?
What is the 'chain of command' for these 'carefully considered' murder? Once the President carefully considers the matter, through what mechanism does he have the murder carried out? Does he order the military to do it (even though the deliberate targeting of civilians in wartime is a war crime) or the local police department? Or does the Secret Service carry it out? Or does he have a special hit team waiting in an anteroom for the 'go code' and a target list? If a soldier is being ordered to murder an American citizen, what are the consequences of his refusing to obey such an order- what law can he be prosecuted under, if any?
Many questions, and I suspect we will have none of them answered due to 'national security'. This is not the America I grew up in, nor the America I want my children to grow up in.
racist!
Where's the racism? I'm not seeing it.
Unfortunately, your highly intelligent post will go unanswered by TPTB. But I'm sure many ZH'rs will be glad to comment further.
Great questions. This isn't the America I grew up in either.
http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/international/2001/02/06/12728.htm
And from (http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/Kroll-Inc-company-Histo...):
Another home-based client was the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which hired Kroll after the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center. Kroll was credited with the Port Authority's ability to evacuate the majority of the towers' workers after the first plane hit on September 11, 2001, and before the buildings collapsed.
The likes of Kroll and AIG ARE the "secret govt."
For more on how twisted this all is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waEIAsqMLiA
I didn't know this, I'll have to look this up. Also who's to say we haven't already assassinated an american on US soil. I think when something like this happens there isn't any "paperwork" to follow it's just a nod or by conversation and thats it. But I could be wrong.
Obama has my permission to assassinate Corzine, regardless of what dirt his sorry ass is standing on.
Who is this Corzine? Have you seen the cleavage on that Kardashian chick? Wow.
Gestapo Mueller back on duty.
WantedHe is the most senior member of the Nazi regime whose fate remains a mystery. Possible explanations for his disappearance include:
Gestapo Müller was last seen in the bunker on the evening of 1 May 1945, the day after Hitler's suicide. Anyone who can give information regarding his whereabout will be rewarded.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_M%C3%BCller_%28Gestapo%29
Funny but Kathleen Hayes on Bloomberg had a guy on her show who asked "how would Jesus vote" and i totally "hit the roof" as they say. Go figure! I think of myself as the last guy to go "Ghenghis Christian" on humanity. I'm trying to cut back...but if i didn't know any better i'd say "they know this about me and it's part of an experiment." Anywho..."i'm done with government." I'm passionate about the kids who serve and the officers who lead them..and that's it. I'd prefer it if people would outstretch their arms and dialogue to someone or something that isn't "the machine." Here's a thought:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-lG3nXyI41M
Ever feel like you've entered a parallel dimension? It's like some fucked up episode of The Twilight Zone.
You're right. It's getting stranger and stranger. I feel like a foreigner with no place to go home to. This country has turned into a police state.
How's this for a fucked up Twighlight Zone episode:
If Sheriff Joe and his Posse confirm that BO's b-cert is a fake and that he was never born in the USA, does that mean BO can still sanction the killing of US citizens either on home turf or abroad?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8BgBQxrYWw&feature=related
The Twilight Zone: The Trance
I can't believe I just forced myself to watch that whole thing... the newer TZ's sucked. How did you even think of posting that????
i got lucky. angus brought up the twilight zone
nature of our current mind set so i went looking
for an episode that would feel right / so to speak.
there were a few decent candidates but this one
took the cake. i thought it was better than most of
the "color" episodes that i've seen. check out the one
that goes by the name "matrix" twilight zone from 1985.
that one is a hoot , you'll see.
Let's say that it's proven that BHO was not born in the US. What happens to the last three years? You think they'll be eraced? You think BHO will be arrested and charged with impersonating a president? Who will arrest him Holder's FBI? I can't begin to imagine the amount of upheavel the Democrats, the unions and their supporters will engage in. It would briing this country to its knees. This birth cert. business is a dead end. No matter if it's a fake or not, nothing will change.
In the interest of national security it will be necessary for the acting president to declare martial law.
It is no longer relevant where the POTUS was born, but where the instant of his conception occured. In keeping with the Party's resolve to declare personhood at that moment, heretofore all birth certificates will be back dated nine months and renamed to personhood certificates. This will enable our brave internal security apparatus to arrest and charge all women who previously have had abortions and their participating abortionists retroactively. We now also have the option to "drone" them without trial and set a permissible level of collateral damage.