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FBI Director: I Have to Check to See If Obama Has the Right to Assassinate Americans On U.S. Soil
Fox News reports:
FBI Director Robert Mueller on Wednesday said he would have to go back and check with the Department of Justice whether Attorney General Eric Holder’s “[criteria] for the targeted killing of Americans also applied to Americans inside the U.S.
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“I have to go back. Uh, I’m not certain whether that was addressed or not,” Mueller said when asked by Rep. Tom Graves, R-Ga., about a distinction between domestic and foreign targeting
Graves followed up asking whether “from a historical perspective,” the federal government has “the ability to kill a U.S. citizen on United States soil or just overseas.”
“I’m going to defer that to others in the Department of Justice,” Mueller replied.
Indeed, Holder’s Monday speech at Northwestern University seemed to leave the door open.
Constitutional expert Jonathan Turley writes:
One would hope that the FBI Director would have a handle on a few details guiding his responsibilities, including whether he can kill citizens without a charge or court order.
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He appeared unclear whether he had the power under the Obama Kill Doctrine or, in the very least, was unwilling to discuss that power. For civil libertarians, the answer should be easy: “Of course, I do not have that power under the Constitution.”
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The claim that they are following self-imposed “limits” which are meaningless — particularly in a system that is premised on the availability of judicial review. The Administration has never said that the [Law Of Armed Conflicts] does not allow the same powers to be used in the United States. It would be an easy thing to state. Holder can affirmatively state that the President’s inherent power to kill citizens exists only outside of the country. He can then explain where those limits are found in the Constitution and why they do not apply equally to a citizen in London or Berlin. Holder was not describing a constitutional process of review. They have dressed up a self-imposed review of a unilateral power as due process. Any authoritarian measure can be dressed up as carefully executed according to balancing tests, but that does not constitute any real constitutional analysis. It is at best a loose analogy to constitutional analysis.
When reporters asked the Justice Department about Mueller’s apparent uncertainty, they responded that the answer is “pretty straightforward.” They then offered an evasive response. They simply said (as we all know) that “[t]he legal framework (Holder) laid out applies to U.S. citizens outside of U.S.” We got that from the use of the word “abroad.” However, the question is how this inherent authority is limited as it has been articulated by Holder and others. What is the limiting principle? If the President cannot order the killing of a citizen in the United States, Holder can simply say so (and inform the FBI Director who would likely be involved in such a killing). In doing so, he can then explain the source of that limitation and why it does not apply with citizens in places like London. What we have is a purely internal review that balances the practicality of arrest and the urgency of the matter in the view of the President. Since the panel is the extension of his authority, he can presumably disregard their recommendations or order a killing without their approval. Since the Administration has emphasized that the “battlefield” in this “war on terror” is not limited to a particular country, the assumption is that the President’s authority is commensurate with that threat or limitless theater of operation. Indeed, the Justice Department has repeatedly stated that the war is being fought in the United States as well as other nations.
Thus, Mueller’s uncertainty is understandable . . . and dangerous. The Framers created a system of objective due process in a system of checks and balances. Obama has introduced an undefined and self-imposed system of review ….
Before you assume that Mueller’s comments are being blown out of proportion, remember that it has been clear for some time that Obama has claimed the power to assassinate U.S. citizens within the U.S. As we pointed out in December:
I’ve previously noted that Obama says that he can assassinate American citizens living on U.S. soil.
This admittedly sounds over-the-top. But one of the nation’s top constitutional and military law experts – Jonathan Turley – agrees.
***
Turley said [on C-Span]:
President Obama has just stated a policy that he can have any American citizen killed without any charge, without any review, except his own. If he’s satisfied that you are a terrorist, he says that he can kill you anywhere in the world including in the United States.
Two of his aides just … reaffirmed they believe that American citizens can be killed on the order of the President anywhere including the United States.
You’ve now got a president who says that he can kill you on his own discretion. He can jail you indefinitely on his own discretion
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I don’t think the the Framers ever anticipated that [the American people would be so apathetic]. They assumed that people would hold their liberties close, and that they wouldn’t relax …
Indeed, given that virtually any American could be considered a suspected terrorist these days, no one is safe from an all-powerful president’s whims.
As I noted in another context, circular reasoning provides all the justification needed:
The government’s indefinite detention policy – stripped of it’s spin – is literally insane, and based on circular reasoning. Stripped of p.r., this is the actual policy:
- If you are an enemy combatant or a threat to national security, we will detain you indefinitely until the war is over
- It is a perpetual war, which will never be over
- Neither you or your lawyers have a right to see the evidence against you, nor to face your accusers
- But trust us, we know you are an enemy combatant and a threat to national security
- We may torture you (and try to cover up the fact that you were tortured), because you are an enemy combatant, and so basic rights of a prisoner guaranteed by the Geneva Convention don’t apply to you
- Since you admitted that you’re a bad guy (while trying to tell us whatever you think we want to hear to make the torture stop), it proves that we should hold you in indefinite detention
See how that works?
And – given that U.S. soldiers admit that if they accidentally kill innocent Iraqis and Afghanis, they then “drop” automatic weapons near their body so they can pretend they were militants – it is unlikely that the government would ever admit that an American citizen it assassinated was an innocent civilian who has nothing at all to do with terrorism.
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First they came for the _____,and I did nothing.
Then they came for the ------,and I did nothing.
Then they came for the-------,and I did nothing.
Then they came for me, and I was alone.
Do not wait.
You'll be back. There isn't 12-step help for ZH, at least not that I've been able to find. ;)
I've tried the Serenity prayer a couple of times, obviously that didn't work.
If you do not stay and fight, they win.
Well, no...
Given enough people walking away the entire System would collapse. This notion of speaking "truth" to power is illogical given that Power KNOWS what the "truth" is.
What's the primary weapon to disable various groups? Kill their revenue stream.
No. Actually, it's divide and conquer. Then they cue the looters.
It is somewhat populistic to assume all that my fellow bloggers have written above, about the "right" to kill a US citizen on US soil, law or not, terrorist and all! This country is full of gun, legal and illegal, this imho is a huge problem for that sadi government, if it indeed intends to pursue US citizens' killings, at one point or another the 'dormant" pupblic WILL TAKE NOTICE! There should be nothing wrong with arresting, detaining OR KILLING ANY PROVEN TERRORIST, as long as DUE PROCESS and the rule of the law have been observed and followed! Anything else, even remotley excersised would spell DICTATORSHIP and we would no tbe any better the the former and "current" east block countries! I am neither naive nor uneducated, but it seems that thinking of what has been discussed above and actually DOING IT are way to diferent shoes! WHo knows maybe such things have already happened and we don't know about them, will happen and we won't notice or we will notice and then what?! We are still a free country, who cannot or want not can and is free to GO! Pay your taxes one more last time and LEAVE! If I feel one day that I am no loger safe nor wanted here I would do the same! It's called renounciation! And nobody would kill you for that!
Most guns are of little use against these:
http://www.infowars.com/rights-groups-petition-faa-on-use-of-drones-in-u...
And This is why they're pushing them.
I believe that the huge increase in weapons sales in the US is clear evidence that the citizens are NOT APATHETIC.
Rep. Graves identified as a Republican.
Obama and Holder not identified as Democrats.
Well, I'm certain that the overwhelming majority of people in the US KNOW what party Graves belongs to </sarc>.
Bush wasn't labeled as a "Republican" every time his name was mentioned. And, really, the Attorney General?
Stupid Party Pussy shit...
I was going to check my inbox and yahoo had a link for "sovereign citizens." The government is trying to keep an illusion that the American people need the corrupted fascist government to protect them from these "menaces." Here is the link:
http://news.yahoo.com/video/world-22186928/secret-militias-on-the-rise-i...
Of course ABC reported about it, it's not like they are like all the other broadcasting networks trying to induce fear in the masses
Edward Bernays would be proud of this regime continuing his work
Edward Bernays would be proud of this regime continuing his work
Men are moved by two levers only: fear and self interest. Don't make yourself an interest of the US Government and you've nothing to fear sheeple!
I think the constitution is being followed. Well, at least the copy I have.
We the Sheeple of the Police States of Amerika, in order to form a more perfect Oligarchy, establish Justice (assuming you have cash), insure domestic tranquelizers, over provide for the world's defense, promote welfare in general, and secure the Blessings of liberty to a select few while leaving our Posterity with unimaginable debt, do ordain and establish this constitution written in pencil for the police states of Amerika.
"shovel ready jobs" these assassins, eh? How do you count these assassins in the NFP numbers?
..will you call them NINJA's? or have Mozillo's NINJAl loans tarnished the name of NINJA assassins?
...where does one apply?
...how much experience is necessary?
..do you teach the assassin all the cool stuff like how to snuff out people with a paper clip or a piece of paper?
... is there room for advancement as an assassin?
....what about sick leave...pension plan....accident insurance...?
...who pays for a "mistake" assassination? will that be taken out of our wages?
...just wondering....
assination malpractice insurance ...
Assassins have to be careful. If they kill too many sheeple there won't be any taxpayers left to fund their master's wars and keep the fiat ponzi game going. Guess who their Master's turn against once the assassin is obsolete?
Do I need a SARC tag for that?
http://rt.com/programs/alyona-show/obama-admins-death-committee/
Alonya Minkovski did a good piece on this on Russia Today........but it is strange that Mueller went to UVA Law School and seemingly has no grasp of Constitutional Law...........as for Eric Holder....well the US does look like the fish is rotting from the head
That's about as strange as a dermatologist who's got a very poor understanding of open heart surgery.
Your comments must be so clear to you when you make them......what happens to them when they appear in print ?
Apparently you need to be smart to understand them. I'll clarify for you...
You said: "but it is strange that Mueller went to UVA Law School and seemingly has no grasp of Constitutional Law"
If you knew anything about the study of law, you'd probably understand my reply. A person who goes to law school learns a little bit about every subject, including Constitutional law, but no one is expert on all of it, because the subject is too large for one person to grasp every aspect of it.
Similar to medicine.
So my simile is that your comment is comparable to saying, "Strange that the dermatologist went to Johns-Hopkins medical school and seemingly has no grasp of open heart surgery."
I'll try to remember to spell this stuff out for you if I comment in the future.
But its illegal to follow folks around new york to see if they are terrorists!!! I guess they should just be shot and killed and that ends the need to follow them.
The logic coming from this administration and the previous one are getting to the point of hillarity. Wonder if laughing at the authorities now might get you killed as a terriorist later. One never knows at this point.
"WTF, You got to be shitting me" is now a standard challange to established authority where deadly force can be used by any agent or wanna-be agent of law-enforcement
</snark
""WTF, You got to be shitting me""
Should be standard practice to affix this with ANY sentence that talks about govt actions.
Watch the movie Brazil, folks. Dead-on...
Animal Farm
My impression that Western governments already approve assassinations of potential political threats on their own soil on a small scale basis. My impression after reading some mainstream Swedish media is that the Norwegian intelligence POT approved of the assassination of Ahmed Bouchiki back in 1973 (although he proved to be the wrong guy) and therefore let some of the people involved in the assassination leave the country.
The rumours about the deaths of Robin Cook and Wim Duisenberg (Duisenbergs wife had some radical political ideas in some respects) are quite interesting. Apparently, there are devices which can cause fake heart attacks. But I guess that it is impossible to prove anything.
I think that you got a democratic problem if the government and/or the intelligence is entitled to assassinate its own citizens. If people fear that the government or the intelligence will kill you, you may get less interested in expressing your own opinion, to run for an office or to donate money to political campaigns which the government, powerful lobbyists or the big media don´t like.
I suppose that some people will argue that the license to kill will only be valid for people like Al-Qaeda terrorists and the guy who was mixed up with Ahmed Bouchiki. But who can tell for sure that the next step will not be assassinations of other people too?
If the USD loses its reserve currency status I think that there may be problems in the US, at least until the US has raised its tariffs enough and restored its domestic production capacity. During this transitional period there may be riots on a large scale and attempts by new politicians to get elected. It may be tempting during this transitional period to kill campaign donors, new media investors and perhaps also some politicians. In the past, similar political problems seem to have been eliminated by individuals not acting on behalf of the government (the Huey P. Long case, for instance). So I guess that individuals not acting on behalf of the government could fix the problems once again. However, if the government is entitled to do the same legally it will probably deter more people from donating money, investing in big media or run for an office. And I think that is a democratic problem in any country if that happens. If you by artificial means limit the choice of media and politicians the electorate has, then you get a managed democracy which is very similar to an ordinary dictatorship.
"until the US has raised its tariffs enough and restored its domestic production capacity."
Economies of scale. Much of the "production" was also for exports. With trade wars looming you can pretty much kiss any notion of attaining such production numbers. Reduced production leads to higher prices, which in turn depress production (everyone's broke!).
We were different: Americans, that is. We had a principle that the individual was important, that every citizen counted and the Constitution certified individual freedom where even the president was no more privileged than the least among us.
Not anymore.
America is concentration camps, suspension of judicial protection such as right to trial, secret and legal assassinations of American citizens anywhere in the world including on Main Street USA, instead of freedom of speech we now have politically correct hate speech restrictions, instead of a free press we now have state-sanctioned media monopolies, instead of freedom of assembly we have assembly zones, instead of freedom of association we have mandatory association, instead of freedom of religion we now have intolerant state religion, instead of a republic with protection of minority and property rights we now have a democracy where the mob votes itself other peoples’ property….
Because Americans failed to pay the price of eternal vigilance to protect their liberty, American society today differs from the despotic monarchies that our forefathers left in degree only.
One man – Ron Paul – could lead us to the road back. Polls show that of the Republican candidates for president only Ron Paul and Mitt Romney could beat Obama in November. Should Rick Santorum win the War Party nomination, Obama and Michelle, i.e., Goldman Sachs/Israel et al., will retain occupation of the White House and the “Land of the Free.”
Amerika is run by a bunch of Trotskyite fascists -what's really scary is that we are a nation of zombie like pod people -sheeple -sheep getting ass raped by the wolves getting one last cheap thrill before devouring their victims.
Mitt better watch his backside.
Sheeeit... Mitt is his backside.
No problem for him, just a quick glance in any direction, as he's nothing but one big asshole with eyes and a mouth.
BAIN CAPITAL ( Mitt Romney's co.) syndicates Limbaugh,Hannity,Beck,Savage& Levin !
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1752777/pg1
Have you been wondering ,( as I have),....why ...these so-called conservatives
on talk radio keep trashing RON PAUL???
Doesn't add up...doesn't make sense, right?....
WELL...now I can see how, and why this is happening.
It turns out, that CLEAR CHANNEL COMMUNICATIONS, owns Premiere Radio
Networks. Premiere Radio Networks OWNS EXCLUSIVE RIGHTS TO
Rush Limbaugh,Sean Hannity, and Glenn Beck....and....Premiere also syndicates
Michael Savage and Mark Levin radio shows.
NOW FOR THE PUNCH LINE...
WHO DO YOU THINK OWNS PREMIERE RADIO NETWORKS AND CLEAR
CHANNEL COMMUNICATIONS ????
answer: BAIN CAPITAL !!!!! of which MITT ROMNEY IS CEO!!!!!!
Some of this is beginning to come out in the print media reporting.
[link to www.clearchannel.com]
[link to cincinnati.com]
[link to www.huffingtonpost.com]
.
The Story Behind The Story
With A. True Ott PhD
http://atrueott.wordpress.com/2012/02/01/ask-mitt-anything-you-betcha/
Try Dr David Kelly.....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Kelly_%28weapons_expert%29
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=13212
http://wikispooks.com/wiki/Gareth_Williams
I'll have to check and see if I pay my taxes this year, so I don't fund my own government sponsored suicide.
How about checking with the Constitution you swore to uphold, asshole, rather than running back to mommy to see what you're allowed to say?
Hope and Change.
Obama's left us with little hope and no change in our pockets.
"Where due process once resided, Holder offered only an assurance that the president would kill citizens with care.
While that certainly relieved any concern that Obama would hunt citizens for sport, Holder offered no assurances on how this power would be used in the future beyond the now all-too-familiar 'trust us' approach to civil liberties of this administration," he wrote.
American social policy, which has been moving toward an eventual death sentence for the old and the sick (Obama’s Health Rationing Czar Emanuel’s Reaper Curve) and already provides for an elimination of unwanted babies, has added to this opponents of the regime. Only now, when Americans are identifying who its tyrant rulers are (next step attacking them), does the cartel tell its citizens that it has the power to kill them for the good of the State.
It reminds one of the Eric Holder Principle: Citizens are entitled to due process, not necessarily judicial process, i.e., if the president believes you are dangerous to the State he can kill you.
Again, we’re reminded of Alexander Solzhenitsyn’s account of enemies of the state in Soviet Russia. Wrote Solzhenitsyn:
“The Cheka’s [secret police] task was to settle accounts outside the court system. In all of man’s history it represented a unique kind of repressive organ—one single authority entrusted with spying on citizens, with arresting them, with conducting investigations of them, with directing their prosecution, furnishing their judges and carrying out sentences upon them.”
Here Is a summary quote from Solzhenitsyn’s massive, The GULAG Archipelago:
“The river [of political prisoners] that flowed in the years 1937-38 was neither the only one, nor even the main one—perhaps only one of the three large rivers that brought the dark stinking pipes of our prison channels almost to bursting. The river of the years 1920-30 had preceded it…. It has sloshed a good 15 million muzhiks* (if not even more) into the taiga and the tundra… And afterward there was the inmate river of 1944-46… whole nations were pumped through the discharge pipes [such as Cossacks, Tatars, ethnic German Russians, Poles, Balts, Hungarians etc] and in addition there were millions and millions of [Soviet] returnees [from German wartime labor camps and factories], German POWs and new forced labor hordes… the prison pipeline never remained empty…”
The descendents of the very international financiers such as Jacob Schiff who financed the Bolshevik reign of terror in Russia are now holding America’s freedom for ransom.
*Muzhik – a Russian peasant
In the good old days of the Republic, the two were not so easily distinguishable ... just to recap:
I suppose Holder et al could strictly read the 5th Amendment (believe me, it would be refreshing if a Democrat of any stripe ever read any of the Constitution strictly) and conclude that due process of law meant that laws that had been followed even though courts had not been involved. However, how would they reconcile that to the 6th Amendment?
Gee, I guess I understand now why they make such a big deal about not treating suspected terrorists as criminals.
I'm taken back to the part of SERE training where you are captured and must resist. The opposing forces would never brand you a POW, rather you would be branded a war criminal so that extraordinary means of getting information could be used without the Geneva Conventions applying.
Never thought it would be our guys doing it during my lifetime ... kind of ruins the whole memory of the camp being liberated, the Stars & Stripes being raised, and the national anthem being played. You could not go through that experience and not be proud to be an American because you were fighting for the cause of justice and right.
American Gulag may be closer that you think:
US incarceration rate is four times the worldwide average. It's the highest in the world.
Soviet Gulag rate in 1950 was estimated at 823 per 100,000. US? 743.
Incarceration rates
1. USA: 743
2. Russian Federation: 607
3. Cuba: 487
http://www.nccd-crc.org/nccd/pubs/2006nov_factsheet_incarceration.pdf
Iran : 207
Lybia: 206
And private corporations are hustling state govts to take over their prison systems. All fine and dandy until, that is, you find out that they're stating that they expect high occupancy rates (90% - govt must create/supply inmates!).
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-03-07/prisons-ethical-con...
Is dancing with the stars on tonight?
Honestly, I don't know why more people are not freaking out on this. These people are criminals! Think about this next time you hear that "social justice" bullcrap. It means they kill who they want, when they want, goodbye.
Those kinds of liberals are brain damaged psychopaths and need to be targeted by Norwegian type Nights Templar assassins.
And, who initiated the War On [Of] Terror?
Recall the GOP audiences in South Carolina and Florida reacting to the war chants of the likes of Santorum.
ALL politicians seeking higher power are psychopathic.