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Good luck with that. Eventually the bar the central planners use to determine the "wealthy" will be lowered, and the middle class will get slammed. We all know spending will never be addressed in any meaningful way, so this is the only solution.
Well that, plus inflation as the treasury sells directly to the federal reserve.
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Taxing corporations is a surefire way to pass the tax on to the middle and lower income groups. All they do is raise prices to cover the additional cost. Consumers pay the tax when they buy the goods. Brilliant!!!
Why is this concept so hard to understand?
Because it's not necessarily true? Corporations can only get away with charging so much before people simply stop buying the shit. Corporations depend on everyone buying shit they don't really need. Other than food, energy, medicine and housing, most of the crap they sell isn't that important.
Greenhead
do not try reason when up against fire breathing idealists. Just chant the slogan and feel the hate!!! Then find the nearest 'rich' person (must be a white male) and tear him to shreds.
The commies get rid of the intellectuals first; doctors, professors (no matter how lefty they are) those who wear glasses or have had dental work (a sure sign of being rich). Eventually the killing goes wholesale. The ENVY is always the first spark. A good 'leader' knows how to get the people to 'respond'.
forward soviet indeed
If the market will bear it.
Most small companies will die from margin compression.
Is there anyone here who actually thinks corporations pay taxes? Isn't that built into the price like materials, machines, profit, staff, insurance, power and heating? So, if we buy a thing, don't WE pay the taxes?
FORWARD SOVIET!
Are you trying to sound like an ignorant socialist clown?
Congrats, if so!
No. He's simply stating a fact. There is no such thing as Corporate Taxes, unless perhaps you actually believe in the Government.
If you believe in the fairy tale called Government, then yes, there is such a thing as Corporations and Corporate Taxes.
Corporations are these things where, first, it is given a $40 Billion bailout. Then an investigation is done. Then the "Corporation" is "slapped" with a $4 Billion "fine".
Meanwhile, an article in Reuters this morning quotes a 24 year old Frenchman who is worried about the prospects of the welfare state in France being dismantled.
It is ironic that the "fair share" talking point gets any traction at all. How is it fair for a mob to coercively extract wealth from someone when they pay little or nothing at all?
"fair share" is when all pay at the same rate however income or wealth is obtained, I could live with that "fair share".
the man in the street knows the system is NOT fair as it is. Governments are criminally protecting the rich banksters who have raped the economy and pushed the debts on the government sector under threat of going belly up if not; financial WMD blackmail strategy brazenly carried out in all of first world.
So as these criminal banks hold all the "clean" assets of the taxpayer and retirement funds of retirees, along with the "polluted" assets of their own shenanigans, the people know that livelihood savings blow up along with the shit, if the bank falls.
If the economy tanks as a result the man in the street gets crushed. If you look at the numbers the 1% own over 60% in first world and the 2% own 90% in BRIC world. Thats how steep its got, the financial divide.
Can you blame the guy in the street screaming "rip off" if the whole economy collapses. He is innocent yet he dies, whereas the Oligarchs who have benefitted from 30 year casino, they survive.
Whats with your logic and your math? That 24 year old is innocent of crime yet his future is totally compromised to save the criminal class. That is not justice and its worth shouting about. Don't talk about the fact he is on the dole, that's NOT what brought this house of cards down. Look for the crime, not the collateral victim.
Your routine may be too hip for the room... it's blame the victim time on ZH.
As a Frenchman, he will soon be able to try his luck under shariah. Another example of arbitrary rulemaking. High muckety-mucks get what they want and outsiders get to like it.
That's NOT the point here! The rich need to start paying their fair share. And by the fact that they have so much more than the rest, they need to pay up more than the rest. If one man has only one arm to dig with, then the man with two arms should be ask to dig four times as much. We are in a mess that the rich created. And they, thru their super PAC's, are trying to block the government from taxing them for what they did (and they reaped a very large amount from).
ACS
you elevate class envy to new heights...
power to the proletariat!!!
death to the rich (defined as AGI >250,000) somehow that slogan looses some punch....so we just kill em all?
you have no idea how to make a buck do you?
I vote to redistribute 25% of YOUR wealth to the bank accounts of all Zero Hedge members. Don't be a greedy hoarder - spread your wealth. ALL IN FAVOR SAY 'AYE'.....
So far it's five to thirteen in voting here, that DON'T think the rich should be taxed, and they (the voters here) should be taxed for what the rich don't pay??? I can say this because I don't think the 0.1% spend anytime here. It's real hard to understand people. I'm sure that we ALL know about the two things in life that are NOT inescapable. So taxes are not one of the options.
Yes we have a fair share problem. Rich are paying more than thier fair share since they are so few but pay the vast majority of the taxes.
Its the folks that pay NOTHING that are not paying thier fair share. We need to eliminate income tax and move to a consumption tax so that no one could avoid the tax. Including prostitutes, drug dealers and gun runners who presently work for cash and dont pay taxes. Nevada prostitutes might be an exception.
The rich may be few, but if they own 80% of the weath, why shouldn't they pay at least 30% of the taxes? They fucking own everything but don't want to pay anything.
Example -- the Boeing corporation payed NOTHING for several recent tax years -- many other multi-nationals that are nominally "American" companies do likewise. Many get millions in tax returns back from the IRS every year, while they create jobs in China and Sri Lanka and pay their CEOs millions.
Consumption tax is regressive in the sense that folks with less money must necessarily spend a much higher percentage of that money just to live. The wealthy on the other hand, can get by just fine with spending a much smaller % of their wealth, while hoarding the remainder. A consumption tax once again just fucks over the poor and what's left of the middle class.
I have never read so much elitest garbage as on some of these ZH threads... everybody here is so much more clever than the less fortunate, correct? You guys are all the super race, self-made men who never took a dime of public money for your education or anything else, right? Any of you assholes familiar with the phrase "the working poor"? Millions lot of people are out there working but can't make ends meet with their lousy job. It's not because they are living high on the hog, it's because things you need to live are inflating while real income goes down. So you blame someone for getting some food stamps to feed their kids? If it wasn't for food stamps the shit would be burning dpwn right now. Who are the real welfare queens? Single moms with a couple of kids, or the banks and the pentagon? Who are the ones who really feel "entitled", exactly...
May you chains lie lightly upon you and may posterity forget you were once our countryman.
Your words," they have so much more than the rest, they need to pay up more than the rest", are a close paraphrase of the Soviet Charter:
"From each according to their ability, to each according to their need."
I can see that, but I do feel that way. At some point there is such a thing as too much. I can see serfdom coming for all of us. The super rich have captured the government, and our vote is of use. So I see not taxing the poor (it really is not their fault that they are not as smart as the rest). I also see a good in a non linear tax rate to cultivate a broad middle class. If I have one dollar than you, I am richer than you, but not so much that I can enslave you. Just my values.
At some point there is such a thing as too much
The problem with your whole line of reasoning is that you write about "the rich", but Obama's plan is to screw anyone making over $250K a year. That is their definition of "the rich". I make about $200K a year, close to the "rich" threshold, and yet it will take all of my after-tax income (a key point) to pay for my kid's college education (he will start college next year), and it will also take all of my accumulated savings over the past 5 years to avoid taking on student loans. But according to the definition of Obama and Co., I am a rich person who isn't paying his fair share. So, on behalf of the non-rich rich people like myself, Fuck You.
Dear stupid socialist asshole fucktard,
Why is the "fair share" of an Obama voter 0 %?
Thanks in advance for your "honest" answer.
I wrote in RON PAUL. So am not able to answer your question (could not bring myself to vote for ether one of them). Why do you use such language? It makes some of us think you are still in middle school, or have an anger management issue. Adults just don't use those words.
I suppose someone might also argue that adults don't usually inflict their wish-fulfillment fantasies upon the rest of their countrymen with knowledge that they are in fact supporting a malignant socialist to make a point. Sorry for the attitude, last week's nightmare still fresh on my mind.
The "don't usually" is true, and for that we can thank God. I have yet to find some one who is not depressed about this, as you and I are. I fear that this can end very badly, but end it will.
Perhaps you haven't noticed but the government isn't going to actually significantly increase the tax the major contributors to the super pacs pay. However, they are most certainly going to significantly raise your taxes...
The way loopholes work is quite simple, if they say the rates are going up 10%, then poor, middle classes, and upper classes all pay the full 10%, while the elite persons, entities, and institutions all use their loopholes to pay 1% more, if that.
I'm sorry to say, you are right about who is going to pay for what a few did to us, so they could reap a super windfall of profit. My grand kids are going to pay for all this, and it's just plain wrong.
as a prisoner of the fasciti republik of obama i wish to say...
GET TO WORK BITCHES
IZ NEED A NU FONE...AND SOME SNACKS
May I recommend Ice Tea and Skittles? The breakfast of champions.
not only do the maths not add up but the morality (responsibilty) of whose problem it is
bloated politicians passing the buck (bill) onto productive people for their Jabba the Hut food binging... fiscal greed and mathematical ignorance from our 'leaders', how wholesome!!
give us a (pigs at the trough) break
Stop Paying Tax.... Jabba needs a diet, it's you or him at this point
Stop Paying Tax.
Im still looking for creative ways to explain to my wife why Im not going to get another job.
However, I dont think she will accept that I dont want to pay any more taxes...although it is very true. Another little gift.
Yes, but anybody convince the mathematically-challenged statists of this truth?
Oh, they know.
Thats why they keep banging on the 250k income range for the law, where it matters.
Meanwhile, their "Happy Little Warriors for Truth" keep screeching about billionaires & millionaires. Dissembling little pricks that they are.
$250K and up = 3% of households.
We live under a "progressive" tax code Ned.
The more income you make the greater your burden of taxation is (of all taxes paid in).The tryranny of the majority is not the answer to this, not by a long shot.
Its the spending, not what government brings in. I took the time to dig around for something to graphically show you, by income and percentage of tax burden. You can sort by income levels on the left side with this as you like...its real.
http://www.heritage.org/federalbudget/top10-percent-income-earners?nomobile
By the way, I won't be hurt even if they manage to screw those making 250k...but when those people pull in their horns we'll all be mpacted. And my health insurance has gone up 20% and 35% each year (respectively) since ObamaCare was put into law. That equates to less business activity overall and less jobs leading to less taxes taken in.
I'm not "rich"...and the "progressive" tax code is designed to keep it that way. Me personally, I'd rather have 30% instead of 3% making over 250k. This isn't about milionaires and billionaires, at 250k its about people WE know.
Act 1: Take from the poor and give to the rich.
Act 2: Tax the rich because nobody else is left.
The simple solution, at present, is to remove any distinction between income types... or, alternatively, penalize all income that is not ordinary wages.
Maybe fixing the deficit by taxing the rich isn't really the objective. Since everything is about perception, the proles will be placated by thinking the "haves" are paying more. Simple stuff really. Nobody believes that a tax on the wealthy will "fix" anything. But it might go a long way toward heading off the riots and pillage by the common folk. Got pitchforks?
Well, the problem with that theory is that is what the tax system is already set up to do (and has done for decades now)... at this juncture, reality has dictated substance over form. Unless the plebs see the rich folks moving in next door, probably won't get digested very well...
That all depends upon how the thing is spun -- does it not? Let Fox/MSNBC/CNN/ad infinitum get hold of the story and all bets (of sanity) are off. Tell me where substance over form stops diverging.
No way to tell exactly. Timing decisions are fools errands. But the collective naivety is simply a function of convenience. I think the law of diminishing returns applies, as well as rudimentary game theory in the inevitable conclusion of collusion. Things are converging to a point where it's pinching J6P and he's being forced to wake up... who knows when some critical mass will do so, but it's coming... and the "spinning" is subject to marginal returns. [e.g. number of voters]. At the end of the day, spin does not make gas affordable.
Some of that spinning loss of momentum could have been the demise of Gov. Romney I suppose. And it's not likely we can get ALL the unemployed some sort of disability so they can be enrolled in the program for their govvy checks. And lowering the requirements for SNAP can only go so far. All this to say that placation for all is not possible. Therefore, I see your scenario playing out. Thanks goodness we now have drones overhead! I feel so much safer.
it doesnt end here:
there's plenty left, unfortunately the play will never progress to Act 3 and 4:
Act 3: Tax hidden assets, corporations and special purpose trusts owned by hofjuden, aristocrats and monarchs
Act 3: Tax the roman catholic church
The boy king can get all he needs from the rich. Everyone knows the wealthy are too stupid to hide their money or deploy other strategies to reduce taxation. This is genius! Why hasn't anyone ever thought of this before? I guess we needed a wise Kenyan to show us the way.
Politicians pretend they are Robin Hood
in fact they're the Sheriff of Nottingham (taxman)
they just can't stop bullshitting and mis-representing what they are, parasites
Both taxation and inflation are theft. Trying to levy taxes or cause inflation should be punishable by death. Don't worry ZG, none of this is sustainable and the death sentences will be carried out before too long whether humanity likes it or not.
Ther Obama phone speaks for itself.
In three sentences that woman encapsulated the Obama campaign for the ingorant poor.
1. Keep Obama in President, yo!
2. He give us a phone!
3. He gonna do mo'!