“The Euro Will Blow Up Europe Instead Of Bringing It Together”

Wolf Richter's picture

Wolf Richter   www.testosteronepit.com   www.amazon.com/author/wolfrichter

“I cannot be disillusioned because I no longer have any illusions about Europe,” muttered Euro Group President Jean-Claude Juncker last week after the horse trading over Greece’s bailout had failed once again. But he wasn’t the only one who lost his illusions. “There are better alternatives to the bailout policies of Chancellor Merkel,” declares the man who’ll run against her in 2013; alternatives that “protect taxpayers and don’t only benefit the banks.”

After 40 years in the CDU, Merkel’s own party, that man, Stephan Werhahn left it earlier this year in protest over her bailout policies and joined the Free Voters (Freie Wähler). In 2008, they’d decided to get into the Bavarian parliament and won 11.2% of the seats. Out of nowhere. Now they’re going for the federal elections in 2013. And Werhahn—grandson of Konrad Adenauer, the legendary first Chancellor of the Federal Republic and one of the founders of the CDU—heads their list.

In the interview, he reviles the violations of the Maastricht Treaty, the founding document of the EU. One of its fundamental principles is that each country is responsible for its own debts and that no country can be held liable for the debts of other countries. The principle, he says, was first broken with Greece’s initial bailout in 2010. The preliminary bailout fund, the €480-billion EFSF, was “the next violation.” The third violation was the permanent bailout fund, the €700-billion ESM, which can be leveraged “so that the liabilities for Germany and German taxpayers will be greater still.”

The German Constitutional Court, in its review of the ESM, mandated two safeguards—a maximum liability for Germany of €190 billion and parliamentary approval before each disbursement. But that limit, he says, “is being leveraged by ECB President Mario Draghi” with his promise to buy “unlimited” amounts of debt as long as crisis countries submit to reform and austerity requirements. When the ECB buys debt, Germany is liable for 27% of any losses, blowing the lid off the Court-stipulated limit, and “without approval by Parliament.” These ECB policies as well as Germany’s Target-2 balances at the ECB of more than €700 billion “obscure the magnitude of the bailout financing.”

The government’s emphasis that aid is paid only if reform requirements are met might not work, he says, as it’s trying “to make something out of the southern European countries that they’re not.” Now there’s unrest in Europe: in the North, citizens don’t want to pay into a “bottomless barrel”; in the South, citizens, who’re suffering under austerity pressures, say that the only ones getting bailed out are “rich tax dodgers and investors who bought that government debt.”

What about the warning by financial experts that stopping the bailouts would produce enormous turbulence? “Exaggerated and pure banking lobbyism,” Werhahn retorts.

Granted, many private and public investors would suffer losses. And the fact that there’s no procedure for the bankruptcy of a country would be a problem. But Greece and possibly Spain are “broke.” They can’t restore their competitiveness while tied to the euro. Not even the entire second bailout package will be enough, he says; and ever more money will have to flow “to keep these countries in the Eurozone.”

Instead, the EU should carry out an orderly bankruptcy of these countries. Then it can step in with “a sort of a Marshall plan” to fund a fresh start. Devaluation will help them raise their exports and reduce imports. After they get their house in order, they can rejoin the Eurozone. But if they can’t become competitive, they won’t be “suitable for the monetary union.” Otherwise, Werhahn says, “The euro will blow up Europe, instead of bringing it together.”

Wait.... Many European politicians nurture the idea that the euro is more than a currency, that it’s an “icon of unity and peace.” Indeed, but the Free Voters are against “over-elevating” the euro to a “romantic symbol.” He warned: “We have a lot to lose if the euro becomes soft.”

And he wants more democracy. The Free Voters are proponents of referendums at the federal level on important issues—however unlikely that may be in Germany. For a referendum to work there needs to be a “fair discussion,” he says, and the questions can’t be manipulative. It will force the political world to clarify alternatives and encourage the population to get informed. He lamented the current resignation among citizens who are seeing complex problems and large amounts, but are not even being asked about them—because in Europe, “crucial democratic legitimacy is lacking.”

After Moody’s downgraded France, the next major sovereign will suffer the same fate. The UK has a phenomenal 436% of GDP in foreign debt, which is not considered a problem because the country holds “high-value assets.” Alas, they include €489 billion in Greek, Irish, Portuguese, Italian, Spanish, and French debt. Read....  Who’s the Next Downgrade Domino?…The UK?

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mt paul's picture

no twinkies

for Euroland...

ThisIsBob's picture

I wish people would stop tralking about a "Greek Bailout."

It is nothing of the sort.  Rather, it is a bail out of the bankers and the other players (all above the age of consent) who sought profit, but made bad calls.

Had the trade been good, they would hardly be expected to give any money over to the citizens of Greece, yet the trade was lousy, so the citizens of Greece are expected to make it better?

supermaxedout's picture

The Euro Will Blow Up Europe Instead Of Bringing It Together

Thats right. The UK is going to leave the EU. The rest of the EU including Monti is asking right now Cameron to make a decision and are advsing him to have a referendum in the UK about this matter.

What I read in this article about Germany is completely meaningless, simple for the fact that nobody is going to rock the boat in such a critical situation. Neither the Constitutional Court nor any mayor political party.


supermaxedout's picture
“The Euro Will Blow Up Europe Instead Of Bringing It Together”

Thats right. The UK is going to leave the EU. The rest of the EU including Monti is asking right now Cameron to make a decision and are advsing him to have a referendum in the UK about this matter.

What I read in this article about Germany is completely meaningless, simple for the fact that nobody is going to rock the boat in such a critical situation. Neither the Constitutional Court nor any mayor political party.


NotApplicable's picture

I'm of the opinion that this an instance of applying "activation energy" (think Hegel).

Notice that all of the talk is about them leaving. What it will accomplish, is to create the facade of a mandate to integrate further.

Let there be no doubt, Europe will be thoroughly muddled-through. All under the guise of de-muddling.

NEOSERF's picture

Just keep smiling and saving for the chance to buy a small Greek island...

NotApplicable's picture

Sorry, those are for club members only.

Of course, they might sell you one a couple of days before war breaks out, and dare you to try and keep it.

lordbyroniv's picture

Where are the feastsWe were promised. Where is the wine. The New Wine (dying on the vine) 

Haus-Targaryen's picture

So I can say that there is a HUGE underserved political chasam in Germany at the moment, that noooone is paying attention to.  Over half of Germans want the DMark back.  



*HOWEVER* over 90% of the Bundestag is pro EZ, pro- Euro, and pro-bailouts.  The split between those who want the dMark back and those who have been elected to represent the people, at the most conservative estimate is 40% ... or the largest overnight political mirale in Germany.  If you factor Austria in (and lets be honest, Austria as we know it today belongs to Germany, and they don't do anything substantial without the nod from Berlin) its ~ 50% chasam between want people want, and what is getting voted on.  


The problem is in Germany it is very hard to be anti EZ without being labeled a Jew-killing child-molesting pipe-bombing skinheaded dog of a Nazi.  As soon as there is some politician that can tell the leftest establishment here in Germany, in no certain terms that they (the lefties) should rake fuck themselves and that they would rather have Syphilis than contine to bankrupt Germany carring the rest of the (mostly basket case) Continent along with them, the German political spectrum will change, and quickly.   


LawsofPhysics's picture

You are assuming that "elections" matter.  Please wake the fuck up.  They no longer do as TPTB get their result no matter what. Think Otto Von Bismark, we are long past the event horizan where any political resolution can be obtained.  We are in the "by blood and iron" stage, most simply won't realize it until being escorted to the re-education camps.

Ghordius's picture

pls be adviced that you are talking to a (IMO very lunatic, possibly also quite immature alleged) Bavarian that has a quite uncommon angle on German politics

nevertheless, he has one point right: the voices against the EZ and bailouts are very, very rare in Germany

nevertheless elections matters, independently from your "American Neo-Nihilistic" point of view (if in my country it does not currently work, it won't ever, nowhere)

not only to the romantic idiots like me that care for democracy, just look at a very down-to-earth fact:

the titanic efforts taken by the current German coalition to kick all the decisions that might endanger their reelection in September 2013 to 2014 and after

NotApplicable's picture

I'm sorry, but there isn't anything more nihilistic than abandoning personal responsibility by endorsing gang warfare d.b.a. 'politics.'

Tell me again, how does a healthy society grow from the premise of one person living under the rule of another? Where, exactly, do these people gain the right to rule ME? I guarantee it doesn't come from the stupid fucks who vote for their own enslavement.

I do not consent to be ruled by criminals, regardless of their advertising. It is nothing more than the Mafia, but with cheaper suits. Fuck, at least the real mafia has a code of honor. These power-hungry wannabe bastards that call themselves leaders? They would sell their own mothers to gain/keep a seat. (or worse yet, our children)

Ghordius's picture

NotApplicable, your view is a product of your society and your culture

You might just take in that it's not that common in time and space

Haus-Targaryen's picture

What I find ironic is you equate "romantic idiots" (the people referenced in the article above whom support the EZ) with caring for democracy.  

And while I do have a very uncommon angle on German politics, I bring up a interesting point; the largest creditor country has no anti-EMU party, even though over half the population is anti-EMU (not some backwoods Bavarian, but over half the population as a whole) whereas EVERY OTHER EMU nation has one.  


Ghordius's picture

my fault: in my case they are equal (support for EZ and democracy)

I disagree: the ex-communist "Linke" has always been against the EUR, and the Conservatives accepted it as a price for integration

and this is what makes your angle uncommon: you (perhaps because you are too young to remember) forget this part of the political calculation

Haus-Targaryen's picture

Germans can be deprived of their democracy and remain peaceful dossel people, who want nothing more than to sit back, drink lots of Beer (if you're from the South) spend August in Spain, and lease a new BMW every other year.  However, when you deprive Germans of their wealth shit always hits the fan and quickly.  


So while TPTB will continue getting what they want, it isn't a function of the political disfunction we see.  Honestly, the politicans are bought and paid for by the size of the Banks, not necessarily the bankers.  But if you are wanting someone to blame, point the finger at every asshole that rides the 6 hour bull market every time some EU morong opens their mouth and says anything other than "Its all over.  We are doomed." 

If the markets would quit responding to these schnanagans like they do, it would force the politicans to actually do something.  


Ghordius's picture

pls describe the meaning of "doomed", possibly with a comparison to "as in Germany in the year ..."

honest question, I seriously would like to know what exactly you mean by that

I honestly doubt you are a Bavarian, btw, or at least not culturally

Haus-Targaryen's picture

Thats my point.  The EU talking heads will never say the jig is up, they remind me of the Iraqi intelligence officer we all saw on the news denying American tanks in Baghdad when they had just taken the airport.  They will never say its over, and only good news will come out of the mouths.  I'm making fun of their idiocy, and inability to look at a situation, at least economically in some form of objective fashion.


And yeah, Germany is going to have a tough time this year, and I don't understand why they are subjecting themselves to it.  Le 


Und naja, komme ich nicht aus Bayern. *Aber* für die letzte paar Jahre habe ich in Bayern gewohnt, und wenn du mit mir sprechen könntest, man sollte doch meinen, dass ich aus Bayern kommen.  .  

Ghordius's picture

because the "jig is up result" depends on the scenario - and nobody can tell you for sure where the next shoe drops

take the Dollar and the Pound. One in twenty chance that one of them dies, fast, next year. Faster then Weimar.

and then? depends

thx, btw, very polite from you. I'm not the Graf zu Pappenheim, but I thought "I know my Pappenheimers..."

THE DORK OF CORK's picture


Of course not...........I hope.

Just no more BB 16,000s



However they should keep all available old elec. trains in storage - just in case the Italians stop giving their diesel blood.

What other type of public transport vehicle gives 50 + years of service ?

Not Buses.


Trains trams and more rail is the only answer.............but it only works under the correct monetary & fiscal conditions.


Its the cars dummies............

They simply run down capital for no net return.

steve from virginia's picture


The Germans are rebelling ...


... and the Galicians are rebelling along with the Catalonians. The Sicilians are rebelling and so are the Umbrians and Florentines, the Cretans, the Thebans and the Peloponnesians, the Cypriots and Slovenians. The Latvians would rebel if there were any Latvians left ... they have all emigrated. The Estonians are rebelling and so are the Poles. Meanwhile, the Welsh are rebelling along with the Caledonians who have taken to painting their bodies blue and wearing skirts. Some of the Portuguese are rebelling while others are looking for paradise ... in Angola! The Irish used to rebel but they don't any more, they fondly remember the 'good old days' of housing estate speculation and look for them to come back as they eat the bankers' shit.


"Enou ketchup on it and ye can eat anything ...!"


The French haven't begun to rebel but they are working on it, when they are ready, the French will show the world how rebelling is done, in mid-afternoon after lunch. Meanwhile, the Spanish Army repaints its heavy artillery, tanks and AFVs ... the background color of Catalonia is dusty brown instead of Nato green-drab. "The rebels are vermin who must be exterminated without pity," says a Spanish officer.


Goldman-Sachs captures another central bank even as all the other G-S European alumni fail.


The Greek smugglers are bringing in small arms ... into Greece, the Russians are smuggling arms into Syria, the French are smuggling arms into Libya, the Libyans and the CIA are smuggling Soviet arms also into Syria, the British are sending arms to Turkey while the Turks are sending arms to Cyprus. the Egyptians are smuggling arms into Gaza while the US is sending commandos into every country south and east of the Mediterranean Sea ... 'looking for Allen Kayda' whoever that is ... meanwhile, the US sends arms to Israel hoping that one of these days the Israelis will get lucky ...


Meanwhile, the sea level is rising and the Dutch are eyeing their calenders and their dikes nervously ... when they are obliged to flee their homes, when London is underwater along with Hamburg and Lisbon, when Venice becomes 'Atlantis' and when the best parts of the Lido and Monaco and the Costa del Sol are off-shore lots. When much of Europe is a barren desert like much of Libya ... when you can count the number of Europeans on your fingers ...


TahoeBilly2012's picture

Does this mean no more French wine?

cranky-old-geezer's picture



Cudos for having the only worthwhile article on ZH this morning, the only article trying to show the outcome of all this bailout nonsense.

Tylers seem content giving us stanza by stanza reports of songs played by Titanic's musicians as the ship sinks.

Many of us are tired of it.  We know where the financial madness is heading.  We know what the outcome will be, and we keep saying what the outcome will be, becuase the outcome is all that really matters now.


Looney's picture

MANY of us are tired of it

What a pretentious bitch! Unless, of course, the "many of us" means "many of my Cranky multiple personalities".


Uncle Remus's picture

"We need you Santa. This is a bad one."

q99x2's picture

Call your pension fund manager and tell them that they will have civil suits and criminal suits filed against them for being irresponsible thieves if they have any of your funds money in the markets. Tell them you don't even like them if you have to. But stop the middle men. Arrest them. Arrest Goldman Sachs.

LawsofPhysics's picture

Blah, blah, blah.  Take a closer look at the underlying assets being claimed by governments around the world and you realize very quickly that the earth is insolvent.  Oh well, "mark to fantansy" forever I guess then.  This should end well.

lakecity55's picture

The entire earth has been hocked to those reptilian dudes.

THE DORK OF CORK's picture


Yet again the IEA remains strangely quiet about the Italian situation….just giving the numbers in passing as if it were a small economy.

It talks about declines in Germany and the UK (now only 1.5 MBD) but nothing about Italy which was at least at one time a big economy.(bigger then the UK)

Italian diesel (work) demand continues its terminal dive.

Could it be…..the worst large country com. vehicle sales by far. (Greece & Portugal are even worse)

Italian commercial vehicle sales Jan – Oct
Vans -33.4%
Heavy trucks -28.8%
Trucks – 29.6 %
Buses – 30.8%

French diesel demand now looks like its beginning the decent phase


THE DORK OF CORK's picture


The LUAS green tram line could continue over this 19th century bridge but even now they build more roads.




The false price signal of a over valued Euro stops all rational capital development and continues the madness.





LawsofPhysics's picture


Captial and resource mis-allocation and malinvestment at it's finest.

THE DORK OF CORK's picture

Its the Euro

It has exploded the BRICs for some dark reason   (slave factories)

For example - during 2002

Physical euro introduction  - Chinese coal consumption went ballistic.

European countries need national currencies with all their previous debt obligations written in this national unit of account ..........to prevent this gross capital export.

THE DORK OF CORK's picture

A figure that is hard to believe but true

The number of Irish vehicles regs. under current licence increased in dec31 2011 relative to dec 31 2010 !

Although motor cycles ,goods vehicles and public service vehicles declined with working vehicles such as tractors & dumpsters more or less static. (slight increase)

Private cars Y2010 : 1,872,715
Private cars Y2011 : 1,887,810

However a dramatic aging of the fleet is seen.
 31 dec.Y2010
Private cars 4 years old and older : 75%
Private cars 6 years old & older : 56 %

 31 dec.Y2011
Private cars 4 years old and older : 79 %
Private cars 6 year old and older :60 %

If we look at Y2007
Private cars 4 years and older : 65 %
Private cars 6 years and older : 50 %


Ireland is becoming a northerly Morocco
A land full of old Mercs.

The aging of goods vehicles is far more dramatic

Vehicles 4 years old and over : 57 %
6 years old and over : 40 %

Vehicles 4 years old and over : 73.4 %
Vehicles 6 years old and over : 50.5 %

Vehicles 4 years old and over : 82.3%
6 years old and over : 57.7 %

If a banking fiefdom ever needed a devaluation against other banking fiefdoms so as to direct money energy into productive work (building tram lines ?) it is Ireland.

Also diesel (all vehicles) regs have now gone past the 1 million mark for the first time.
1,022,729 or 42.17%

946,912 or 39.19 %

821,212 or 33.64 %


falak pema's picture

we are seeing in this economic duress the signs of implosion of the "consumerista" age. People will have to learn to consume less and reuse hard durables thru recycled innovation. 

Its back to the 19th century! All our value systems have been based on fast and easy RM and cheap energy in the 20th century boom times.

This cycle of ATTRITION, now beginning world wide under evaporation of fiat money and resource constraints, will bring the first world to the hard reality of the true age of "economy" in the strictest etymological sense.

No more wastage of food, clothing and housing. No more wastage of energy.

Paradigm change the hard way. As always Man learns during a period of war and famine.

But for men to understand they are truly in tipping times there has to be mindset change. 

Maybe the millenium generation will realise that; not the ones before them. We will continue to live in denial on the river of no return. 

That, or our contemporaries will invent a new technological revolution just around the corner.

The Internet is truly a game changer provided it stays democratic and "peer to peer" oriented, not Oligarchy controlled.

And provided the world takes steps to move out of both the energy and ecological conundrums bigtime, as time now seems of the essence. Technology and innovation stay time's and civilization's true arrows, in a world where we are running out of time!

But first  we have to kill this hundred headed hydra  that we call the financial crisis which will tear into the guts of world democracy. AS the hopium of seeing it implode and resolve itself is a pipedream; the Oligarchy needs to be restrained, constrained and made truly accountable by the people. 

Man's fatal conundrum forever prevalent : the need to be led and the passion for individual freedom are at loggerheads...



NotApplicable's picture

The hundred headed hydra IS democracy! Just where do you think this financial crisis emanated from? Authority has been delegated so far from the individual, as to leave the criminals with no liability for their actions.

As long as this lesson goes unheeded, your conundrum only grows. Thing is, it really isn't a conundrum at all. People only need the opportunity to follow leaders of THEIR OWN CHOOSING, rather than being forced at gunpoint to follow the leader of the mob.

Honestly, it's as simple as churches. Each contain one or more leaders. If you approve of them, you follow them, otherwise, you go off in search of leaders that share your worldview.

Freedom is the answer. Now, what was the question?

eigenvalue's picture

But the Free Democratic Party is also against bailout but it has almost been voted into extinction. As far as I know, the German voters or maybe sheeple are more concerned about the domestic affairs at the moment. They don't give a damn about their money being swindled by the Greeks.

Sudden Debt's picture

All over the western world, people are being blackmailed into believing that if they'll stop fucking things up by printing of going deeper into debt that they'll lose their pensions and their way of living.

I've tried to explain if in a very easy way that even a 6 year old could understand to people where this is heading...

They just don't want to understand because if they do, they would see that it's all already gone.

What's left of the pension funds and social securities is being burned away at a alarming rate.

And the deadlines? 2015 for example. 2015 will be the year our pension obligations will be to big to bear and pensions will take a heavy cut.

You try to explain that to a retirerd person.... "it won't be so bad" "you guys on the other hand will have troubles collection you pension" "you guys will meet hard times"....

Not them... the others will suffer...


Take my parents for example.

They go on vacations 4 times a year. They spend on vacations more than we make in a year!!!


Savings? ZERO

So where does the money come from?

The house.

I have a lot of friend who's parents are doing the same thing!!!


When they have to go into a home, the house is mostly already gone. All that remains is debt.

But they want to go into a nice home. A care flat.

3000 euro per person per month.

And with a pension op 1400 euro a month... guess who's asked to step in...




Fuck that!

I already told my parents: "I hope you guys also save money, Because I'm not paying for anything" I'VE GOT KIDS MYSELF TO RAISE! COLLEGE IN 10 YEARS....

And I can't go on vacation at 10K per trip, 4 times a year!

And than they look at you.... like you're the evil child....







I also had a talk with the family. That when Europe goes to hell, we'll (my wife and kids) be out of here. Surinamia to be exact. For as long as it takes for Europe to recover.

Got the passports, got a appartment over there, DONE DEAL!

And I'm not taking anybody else with me! PREPARE YOURSELF!

Oh... but bad things only happen to other people. WE ARE THE OTHER PEOPLE!!



Dawnofinsanity's picture

Here in Canada (the resource capital of the world or so they tell us) we are being faced with upping mandatory retirement ages so that there are less higher paying jobs opening up for the younger people while the number of retirees collecting off the system climbs.  Therefore, we are also instituting a later age to collect OAS (Old age security) from 65 to 67 this is a guranteed entitlement to every person that is a citizen of that age.  Then there are skyrocketing costs of private care homes, declining quality of public care homes.  This is caused in part to inefficient management, to become a manager of a health authority you have to have a health related background - meanwhile these people don't have business knowlege.  Additionally for the past 15 to 20 years nurse unions have battled for more wages and health authorities have addressed that by increasing scope. 

Talking about other fine agreements, free trade between Canada, US and Mexico really did well to create jobs in Mexico, burn through resources in Canada, and move foreign companies into America to manage the flow of resource from Canada to Mexico for processing and maybe back to the US for consumption.   Like every government and management theory that struggles between centralization vs decentralization, the world powers are enamored by globilization, this will soon have to change and teriffs will need to be re-introduced to protect jobs.  Therefore a de-globilization trend has to occur for the planet and our nations to survive.   

NotApplicable's picture

My inlaws have savings, but they spent who knows how much money on worthless timeshares because it was also an "investment" they could give to their kids later on.

Of course, did they ask any of them if they wanted these things? Aw Hell, nah!

Louie the Dog's picture

You have some seriously fucked up parents.  My father made decent money, saved, invested and died at 63, but he left an inheritance to his kids, a mortgage-free home to my mother and enough money to meet her every need (she's now 90).  

I suppose it's too late for you to be adopted.

Kina's picture

The bold and the CAPS are in the same place where I would be screaming too.


Unbelievable, burn up the house and savings on a luxury life then expect all else to look after you... haha.. enjoy the dumpster meals parasites.


Central Wanker's picture

I also had a talk with the family. That when Europe goes to hell, we'll (my wife and kids) be out of here. Surinamia to be exact. For as long as it takes for Europe to recover.

I hear you, bro. I had a similar discussion with my wife. When shit hits the fan, we're going to move as well. We just received a 10-year renewable "MM2H" visa for Malaysia. It did cost some money to obtain, but it looks like a good investment right now.

ElvisDog's picture

Hmmm, I don't know. A wealthy foreigner in Surinam or Malaysia or some other similar country - seems like a wonderful tax donkey for the indigenous population. What makes you think those governments won't impose a "foreigners tax" or that local law enforcement will protect your property from poor citizens who may want to steal it? Being a rich ex-pat is great while the rule of law holds up, but that is a requirement.

NotApplicable's picture

Yep, if you can't find a place to go where you can blend in, you are nothing but a TARGET!

All that's happening is trading rule by one gang for another. I can't imagine living somewhere while being under constant threat of kidnapping, or some other form of extortion.

Besides, if people are paying attention, they'll notice, this time, it's global.

Short of moving to the Artic, or the Moon, there will be no safe havens.

Don Diego's picture

correct, it is better to be with other people that look like you...

Non Passaran's picture

All good but it'd be better without the unnecessary bolding and capitalization.

Sudden Debt's picture

YoU'rE nOt ThE BoSs OfF mE!


SoundMoney45's picture

The money is being swindeled by banks and politicians, as the money is a bank bailout which is skimmed by the politicians as it goes by.  Repayment of the aforementioned odious debt is left to the Greek citizens, making them the swindelees. 

NotApplicable's picture


Please post more articles, so that Ilene's tripe is removed from the page.


Tired of Idiots