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Gun Control: The Big Picture

George Washington's picture




 

Preface:  I was raised to be against guns. My parents hated guns, and believed that they only lead to crime and to accidental shootings.

Raised in a blue state, I had the stereotype that militias were made of crazies … and so the “right to bear arms” as part of a “well-regulated militia” seemed like a nutty anachronism.  

And I have long been deeply influenced by leading voices for non-violence, such as Gandhi and King.  So – Until recently – I was pro gun-control.   As such, I understand that gun control arguments very well.

Gandhi and the Dalai Lama Were AGAINST Gun Control

I was surprised to learn that two of the best-known promoters of nonviolence in history were not opposed to guns. Indeed, Mahatma Gandhi taught that we must first be brave enough to use guns to defend ourselves, and only then can we be qualified to use non-violent methods. For example, Gandhi wrote in his book, An Autobiography (page 446):

Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest … if we want to learn the use of arms, here is a golden opportunity.

As Gandhi wrote in Doctrine of the Sword:

I do believe that where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence I would advise violence.

 

***

 

When my eldest son asked me what he should have done, had he been present when I was almost fatally assaulted in 1908, whether he should have run away and seen me killed or whether he should have used his physical force which he could and wanted to use, and defended me, I told him that it was his duty to defend me even by using violence.

 

***

 

Hence also do I advocate training in arms for those who believe in the method of violence. I would rather have India resort to arms in order to defend her honor than that she should in a cowardly manner become or remain a helpless witness to her own dishonor.

In Between Cowardice And Violence, Gandhi wrote:

He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honour by non-violently facing death may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden. He has no business to be the head of a family. He must either hide himself, or must rest content to live for ever in helplessness and be prepared to crawl like a worm at the bidding of a bully …

 

[When violence] is offered in self-defence or for the defence of the defenceless, it is an act of bravery far better than cowardly submission.

 

***

 

A man who, when faced by danger, behaves like a mouse, is rightly called a coward.

 

Not knowing the stuff of which nonviolence is made, many have honestly believed that running away from danger every time was a virtue compared to offering resistance, especially when it was fraught with danger to one’s life. As a teacher of nonviolence I must, so far as it is possible for me, guard against such an unmanly belief.

 

Self-defence … is the only honourable course where there is unreadiness for self-immolation.

As quoted in the Seattle Times, May 15, 2001, the Dalai Lama said:

If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun. Not at the head, where a fatal wound might result. But at some other body part, such as a leg.

What the Founding Fathers Said About Guns

The Second Amendment had more to do with freedom than historical militias. Here’s what the Founding Fathers actually said about arms:

Laws that forbid the carrying of arms, disarm only those who are neither inclined, nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants. They serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.
– Thomas Jefferson, 1764

 

What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms.
– Thomas Jefferson

 

Those who beat their swords into plowshares usually end up plowing for those who didn’t.
– Ben Franklin

 

Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property… Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them.
–Thomas Paine

 

A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
– George Washington

 

Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined…The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun.
–Patrick Henry.

 

Are we at last brought to such an humiliating and debasing degradation that we cannot be trusted with arms for our own defense? Where is the difference between having our arms under our own possession and under our own direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?
– Patrick Henry, 3 Elliot, Debates at 386.

 

The Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms.
–Samuel Adams, debates & Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, 86-87.

 

The right of the people to keep and bear…arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country…
–James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434 (June 8, 1789).

 

(The Constitution preserves) the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation…(where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms.
–James Madison.

 

If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no recourse left but in the exertion of that original right of self defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government…
– Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist (#28) .

 

The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed.
–Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers at 184-B.

 

To disarm the people is the best and most effective way to enslave them.
– George Mason

 

The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any bands of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States.
–Noah Webster, “An Examination into the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution (1787) in Pamplets on the Constitution of

the United States (P.Ford, 1888)

 

[T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or the state governments, but where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the People.
– Tench Coxe, Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

But SOMETHING Must Be Done to Stop the School Shootings!

History is interesting, but something has to change. Kids are getting murdered in their own schools.

We agree …

The Journal of Psychiatry and Neuroscience published a study in 2001 showing that one modern anti-depressant is associated with violent acts.

David Healy and David Menkes from Cardiff University, and Andrew Herxheimer from the UK Cochrane Centre, published a study in 2006 showing that antidepressants can cause severe violence in a small number of individuals.

Numerous other mental health experts say that anti-depressants may be a substantial factor in school shootings and other gun-related violence.  And see  this, this, this, this.   If you have any doubt about this, please watch these videos:

 Indeed, the number of school shootings, murders and murder-suicidesworkplace violence, road rage, and random violence by soldiers by people taking anti-depressants is staggering.

So - whatever else we do to address school shootings - we must either stop pushing anti-depressants on kids or at least stop selling guns to people taking anti-depressants.

How Useful is a Gun Against Tyranny When the Government Has Bigger Weapons?

Of course, the usefulness of a gun as a defense against tyranny depends partly on the types of arms possessed by the government.

As George Orwell – author of 1984 – pointed out in the Tribune (October 19, 1945), the effectiveness of arms in preventing tyranny partly depends on whether the average citizen can afford the current weapon of choice possessed by the government:

The connection between the discovery of gunpowder and the overthrow of feudalism by the bourgeoisie has been pointed out over and over again. And though I have no doubt exceptions can be brought forward, I think the following rule would be found generally true: that ages in which the dominant weapon is expensive or difficult to make will tend to be ages of despotism, whereas when the dominant weapon is cheap and simple, the common people have a chance. Thus, for example, tanks, battleships and bombing planes are inherently tyrannical weapons, while rifles, muskets, long-bows and hand-grenades are inherently democratic weapons. A complex weapon makes the strong stronger, while a simple weapon–so long as there is no answer to it–gives claws to the weak.The great age of democracy and of national self-determination was the age of the musket and the rifle. After the invention of the flintlock, and before the invention of the percussion cap, the musket was a fairly efficient weapon, and at the same time so simple that it could be produced almost anywhere. Its combination of qualities made possible the success of the American and French revolutions, and made a popular insurrection a more serious business than it could be in our own day. After the musket came the breech-loading rifle. This was a comparatively complex thing, but it could still be produced in scores of countries, and it was cheap, easily smuggled and economical of ammunition. Even the most backward nation could always get hold of rifles from one source or another, so that Boers, Bulgars, Abyssinians, Moroccans–even Tibetans–could put up a fight for their independence, sometimes with success. But thereafter every development in military technique has favoured the State as against the individual, and the industrialised country as against the backward one …The one thing that might reverse it is the discovery of a weapon–or, to put it more broadly, of a method of fighting–not dependent on huge concentrations of industrial plant.

If he were alive today, Orwell might say that – unless the American people create and adopt high-tech ways to defend themselves – guns will not be able to compete with drones, robots and other high-tech weapons created by the virtually unlimited American military budget.

On the other hand, as John Aziz notes:

The vast majority of America’s 285 million guns are in Republican states, which are unlikely to be disarmed easily, even with an overwhelming Federal consensus. Some might even try to secede from the Union.

In other words, gun ownership as a deterrence to a tyrannical government might work better in Red States – where a lot of people have guns – than in Blue States.

Note: I strongly believe that safety training is essential. Keep weapons away from kids, and lock up the bullets SEPARATELY so children can’t find them. It is also easy to hang weapons above arm-reach of youngsters. Please be safe.

 

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Tue, 12/18/2012 - 04:34 | 3074079 FunkyOldGeezer
FunkyOldGeezer's picture

Do Americans have some secret Wild West fixation? I blame it on watching too many 'Cowboys and Indians' films as a kid. You know, those films where the whites suppressed the indigenous peoples and were made out to be heroes? Now, those whites' great, great grand kids are harping on about someone supressing them and their need for even more guns. Who have thunk it? Vicious circle personified. Guns really are the answer...doh!

Hey gun lobbyists, isn't it time to bring those poor suppressed Indians into your lame arguments showing why guns are needed? Wait a mo'. If you hadn't suppressed the indians, you wouldn't be here anyway. Life's a bitch, ain't it?

Mon, 01/07/2013 - 02:20 | 3128855 alatnar
alatnar's picture

Your so right and it would have been soo much easier to slaughter those redskins if they hadn't gotten their hands on some of our guns.

Tue, 12/18/2012 - 14:01 | 3075266 headless blogger
headless blogger's picture

May I suggest a website for racist hater homo-fags like you? Its called informationclearinghouse.info

A lot of "men" there to service your every need.

Tue, 12/18/2012 - 00:14 | 3073776 theblock
theblock's picture

i'm putting my rose-tinted glasses on and taking a hit of ecstasy.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 22:10 | 3073505 Sambo
Sambo's picture

Gandhi was confused.  Somewhere he said words to the effect: If someone slaps you, show him the other cheek.

Dalai Lama's advice to shoot the agressor in the leg is hardly a good prescription for self defense.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 20:58 | 3073305 Winston Smith 2009
Winston Smith 2009's picture

"the usefulness of a gun as a defense against tyranny depends partly on the types of arms possessed by the government"

Yes, partly.  While I do not in any way expect that our citizen military would ever move to suppress a truly widespread, popular revolt in this country, if they did, my personal semi-automatic firearm would be quickly exchanged with a battlefield captured selective fire weapon and any other nifty toys available for pick-up there.

Tue, 12/18/2012 - 06:10 | 3073207 Disenchanted
Disenchanted's picture

 

 

Laws don't mean shit in a nation where the people know that the laws don't apply to everyone equally.

 

Connecticut gun laws among the toughest in the U.S.

http://www.twincities.com/politics-national/2012/12/connecticut-gun-laws...

 

So what will more laws accomplish? diddly squat...

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 19:43 | 3073115 FunkyOldGeezer
FunkyOldGeezer's picture

Gun control should be easy.

The government just scare the crap out of everyone by legislating blinding or cutiing off of hands for anyone caught in possession. Only really hardcore felons would risk that and they would mostly be caught within a few years 'cos they'd be dumb enough to try to use their guns.

Seriously though, gun control starts with the will to change, legislation and penalties that are far more severe in nature than they currently are.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 21:54 | 3073452 bunnyswanson
bunnyswanson's picture

Yesterday, I left you this video to watch.  It is rather long but if you can set aside 1 hour, it would be worth your while.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDivHkQ2GSg  (harsh images) - The Story of Gun Control - Innocents Betrayed

It is with the best intentions that I share this with you.  You do seem to be rather naive for an old fart.  Tyranny sets itself solidly into position before revealing its evil ways. 

Never forget what has been done to the families of these men in these countries who took the position of "no resistance."

Watch it until the end, please.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 20:12 | 3073162 BKbroiler
BKbroiler's picture

by legislating blinding or cutiing off of hands for anyone caught in possession

I like how you think.  It's a sad day when chidren are killed.  It's also a sad day when the people of a country have to beg their government to disarm them.   The mom was a prepper, get ready for a shitstorm.    

Back to your point. what the hell is wrong with our legal system?  Cutting off hands, capital punishment, public humiliation, and chain gangs should all be on the table.  Look at Singapore, no crime, nobody even spits on the ground or they get fined.  Let's try that for a few years.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 19:38 | 3073091 LadyEconomist
LadyEconomist's picture

It is true that meds should be looked at closely. There is an epidemia of drugs used for various mental states and conditions. It is the whole industry pushing it on kids and their parents.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 19:25 | 3073046 headless blogger
headless blogger's picture

Really good article today from GW. 

Even if the Gov has bigger and "better" weapons, it is still good that folks can own guns to defend against intruders. If it weren't for the fact that Americans can still own guns, the government would be kicking down a lot more doors, than they already are.

What bugs me is the way the Extremist U.S. Government (which is now a separate entity from the people) has jumped on this latest massacre to promote the "first step" in gun control. I've heard a few of them describe it that way, as a "first step". 

It's pretty easy to visualize what the Elite Controllers are up to these days....and I won't mention my "conspiracy theory" on these last few shootings, but one of the first witnesses was a little boy about 9 years old (he looked like one of the older ones). He was very calm and described the scene he went thru very methodically and said when they reached the fire house (which was outside) they had "one of the shooters on the ground in handcuffs".  Luckily I got the video downloaded. Another person caught on tape a scene where cops were running in the woods after one of the shooters and got him on the ground. Initially, people were saying there were 2 or 3 shooters (just like the Aurora and Sikh shootings).

God help us all if they get all the guns away from the people. They will then go after those they deem as threats and it will be a bloodbath like Stalin's Soviet Experiment. Obama's fake tears did not fool me, as this man has no compunction about bombing children around the world. (Same for a lot of Americans...Sorry to say, but where is the American OUTRAGE over the slaughter of thousands of little children in the ME, Africa, and elsewhere?).

 

 

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 21:06 | 3073325 el Gallinazo
el Gallinazo's picture

Well, of course they jumped on it - they orchestrated it.  Just ask Dr. Green of MK Ultra fame.  .  And where are the other shooters which the surviving witnesses all saw in Conn, Aurora, and the Sheik temple (for a total of four there)?   And what about all the deaths in Mexico from the Fast and Furious gobmint gunrunning?  Wake up!!  They play us like a cheap guitar.

Tue, 12/18/2012 - 12:04 | 3074805 headless blogger
headless blogger's picture

Another thing: The US Gov & Military openly admit to having our soldiers in Afghanistan guarding the poppy fields. They were good at this one; they just turn the story all around: when Taliban eradicated poppies, the US Gov says Taliban growing poppies!! and then have nerve to say they have to guard them to protect the troops.This topic has been highly avoided in mainstream.

Meanwhile, heroin addiction and all the accompanying symptoms and ailments have increased by the thousands. A small percentage addicted to this substance before the US invasion of Afghanistan...now its like an epidemic and spread to the schools. A nephew of ours got hooked on it a few years ago, after it started flooding American streets. He's a lucky one and is clean and doing good.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 23:44 | 3073712 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

..and we pay them to play us like a cheap guitar. Absolutely hilarious.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 18:36 | 3072914 hannah
hannah's picture

"He used to dip his bald head in oil and rub it all over my body."

 

gandhi was a sex machine....

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 18:14 | 3072833 rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

"Keep guns locked up". Bullshit.

I sleep with a loaded Glock bedside with one in the chamber ready to go.  If someone breaks in im not taking the time to unlock the fucking safe you're fucking dead.

Of course I don't have kids in the house or anyone other than my wife.  

The USA is a big problem for the globalist pigs. They need our guns, they need unions destroyed etc.  I wouldn't give up hope that the people here can be defeated as easily as you say.  We can't even seem to defeat a bunch of fucking towelheads in Afghanistan.  It just depends on how nuts everyone goes and im hoping a lot. Fuck the US gov't.  And for the record, I am not anti-US gov't I am anti the fucking crooks who run it.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 18:18 | 3072854 rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

And no more fucking stories about china and it's great record.  Why don't you fucking morons mention how many people the China gov't kills?  And for the stupid reasons it does so?  Care to be yanked off the street in the US for picking your nose and have your organs ripped out in an ambulance in 30 minutes? No I didn't think so.  I am disgusted that I am surrounded by so many wishy wash limp wrist cry babies a good portion of the people in the US are fucking pathetic.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 18:20 | 3072858 rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

Just don't forget who was behind 9-11 and why would you give up your guns to these people?  If you do you're as crazy as the idiots that go out and shoot up kids for fun.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 23:21 | 3073658 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

Wait...i know this one. the bad guys in caves somewhere? i give up.

s/

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 18:00 | 3072777 Cruel Aid
Cruel Aid's picture

Wow George, great work. Thanks

Yes to guns and no to side effects of some of these drugs which are prescribed w/o follow up and adjustment.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 16:07 | 3072280 harami
harami's picture

Our masters got tired of hearing their puppets drone on endlessly about the fiscal cliff after hurricane Sandy and decided their retarded plebian serfs needed another distraction.  I wonder what kind of shady underhanded legislation will pass unnoticed within the next 30 days while the masses are in a fit over guns.

I bet our overlords get a lot of their ideas from feudal Japan, Masanobu Honda in particular.

"The peasant is the foundation of the state and must be governed with care. He must be allowed neither too much, nor too little, but just enough rice to live on and keep for seed in the following year. The remainder must be taken from him in tax."

"Peasants are people without sense or forethought. Therefore, they must not give rice to their wives and children at harvest time, but must save food for the future. They should eat millet, vegetables, and other coarse food instead of rice. Even the fallen leaves of plants should be saved as food against famine."

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 16:13 | 3072328 falak pema
falak pema's picture

meet halali. If you can find him. 

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 16:00 | 3072164 falak pema
falak pema's picture

to quote Gandhi and Dalai Lama  in order to concoct a thread that justifies the use of guns in  the hands of the public in USa is simply preposterous. 

Either I'm drunk or else you have changed your ethical values GW. 

I haven't read the article in detail but I question this incredible sleight of hand. 

Gandhi and Dalia LAma only believed in ONE PRINCIPLE : convert your guns into plough shares.

THeir whole philosophy was based on that principle.

To make them supporters of the NRA meme is simply preposterous.

This is the same historical sleight of hand that made the evangelical faith into the religion of : GOd wills it! 

You would now even conceive that the religion of Islam whose basic principle is Dar el Islam is the perpetrator of Dar el Harb!

That is the frontier that has condemned Islam into obscurantism.

To pervert the basic principles of Peace is the Rubicon beyond which all revelatory dogma dies. 

Never mix politics with profound philosophical beliefs, whatever the impulse to use a sledge hammer to kill a fly! You destroy the sledge hammer not the fly! The belief in something more powerful, profound.  

By making it mundane and egotistical, you make it commonplace.

Caesar and Buddha don't play the same game.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 20:33 | 3073232 Wakanda
Wakanda's picture

FP, having one's "sacred" images challenged is one of the joys of hanging at ZH.

Better here than out on the street, eh?

Tue, 12/18/2012 - 05:38 | 3074107 falak pema
falak pema's picture

yes, debate is fine. It brings it out in the open. As long as it stays rational. 

As Voltaire said : I do not share your view, but I would be prepared to die to allow you the right to express it. 

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 16:42 | 3072467 George Washington
George Washington's picture

Falak pema: As a lifelong admirer of  Gandhi and the Dalai Lama, I assure you that I understand that their main messages are of peace and non-violence.  If you think the quotes are falsely attributed, please let me know.

 

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 19:29 | 3072934 SILVERGEDDON
SILVERGEDDON's picture

The quotes are factual, but do not fit the liberal weenie honey boo boo control philosophy very well.

Absence of guns accomplishes nothing but violence and enslavement. History proves it.

All those nice rules and regulations you wanna see helping people ?

All you get is bloated bureaucracy, capable of nothing but making more rules.

How about solving some real problems with real solutions ? 

Treating mentally ill people ?

Advancing a healthy diet based on real food from the earth minus additives and processing ?

Eliminating drugs, pollutants, and toxic substances from our food, water, and air ?

 

Allowing citiuzens the ability to think and defend themselves ?

Preposterous.

SARC FULL ON, MOTHERFUCKERS.

 

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 16:46 | 3072489 falak pema
falak pema's picture

enuff said. I admire what you do. But some extrapolations are unjustified. Just my opinion.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 19:59 | 3073149 SILVERGEDDON
SILVERGEDDON's picture

Eyyy, Flakey Penis - those were quotes and factual case history videos. Not etrapolations. Completely justified. Just my opinion.

Joo gota bad bag of weed joo are smoking there, man.

Tue, 12/18/2012 - 07:48 | 3074102 falak pema
falak pema's picture

those quotes do not say those people condone freedom of guns circulation, especially of assault weapons. Those quotes say people have the right to protect themselves in self defence. 

Not the same thing. 

You cannot fight a nuclear armed state with hand weapons. You can at the ballot post.

You cannot protect schools by private vigilante groups. You can by state police.

Your paranoia is making you the problem not the solution, if you believe in rule of law.

This lady who died with her own guns is the perfect example of that mindset. 

Tue, 12/18/2012 - 21:02 | 3077026 Jadr
Jadr's picture

The state police didn't really protect the school as much as come to pick up the pieces, which is the case with pretty much every shooting that police respond to.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 16:29 | 3072393 BidnessMan
BidnessMan's picture

You ought to read the article

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 17:57 | 3072476 falak pema
falak pema's picture

the tree doesn't hide the forest; whatever the result that is ojective of the exercise. 

Those men epitomised peace and introspection at the highest level; not that they were patsies for advocating promotion of non violence to the extent of warranting to refuse self defense even to fight off despotism. That I do agree on, but it was not their true message. They were not men who were involved in the power equation of life, more in the knowledge and inner spiritual equation of life. 

But in the USA, the gun lobby and those who advocate 2nd amendment extension to justify repeat/assault action gun ownership, are just pouring oil on the fire of personal hubris and paranoia in society. 

No way. And these icons should not be debased to achieve such purpose. Whatever the justification. It was not their strong suit, their true message to man.

 

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 18:47 | 3072941 SILVERGEDDON
SILVERGEDDON's picture

Yeah, and I can hardly wait for your interpretation of the bible. Because, after all, you know Jesus and the apostles better than anyone else, and what they meant to say. 

Hilarious. 

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 19:06 | 3072990 falak pema
falak pema's picture

to interpret the bible you have to see the film "the birds" by Hitchcock. Divine message there. 

Whats there to interpret, either you believe it as god's word or you don't.

As you say hilarious, if you feel Cain was right and Abel wrong. Then the devil wins and hell becomes heaven. 

Use your imagination. There is no logic there its the dogma, stupid. 

 

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 19:26 | 3073013 SILVERGEDDON
SILVERGEDDON's picture

Keep singing Koombyyah while some meth head takes apart your family in front of you. SWAT will arrive in time to sweep the left overs into bags for cremation. And, unlike you, I feel no need to down vote you for having a differentially deficient point of view. Your verbal inadequacy insecurity is showing. Ho ho ho hee hee heee !

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 19:41 | 3073104 falak pema
falak pema's picture

well to put you at ease I don't feel I'm immune to community diseases; tags, rags and scum bags.

I have never down voted anyone, and that includes a super minus like you. I don't red paste on ZH.

 

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 20:10 | 3073168 SILVERGEDDON
SILVERGEDDON's picture

Yeah, that's me. I believe in the truth. Man's word is his bond. Hard work having it's rewards. I am a centrist - not too liberal, not too conservative. I hate politics and mainstream media. I would defend the ideals that make it possible for you to express your opinion, and live with the consequences. I also would defend the ideals that make it possible to defend myself and my family from violence  and oppression. I believe in God, not religion - religion belongs with politics and mainstream media - the cancers of society. So, look into my past posts. Don't get all butt hurt just because we aren't philosophical bum buddies. This is Fight Club, not Pussy World.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 15:40 | 3072109 Goy_Debt_Slave
Goy_Debt_Slave's picture

Israeli Mossad train in US Woods - Seeking Conflict on American Soil

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjXotoTbRko

 

Israeli Mossad Training Camps In New York - Camp Meir (Listed Inactive?)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5GVzZDGpM8

 

It is interesting how the Southern Poverty Law Center does NOT! List this Armed Group of Men?

 

Gerorge? Is that you about 2 minutes in?

 


The same Jews / Zionists who brought YOU and I!! the Southern Poverty Law Center..

 

Are the same Jews / Zionists who Provided the United States Justice Department with the MAJORITY!! Of the Information used to Create the National Security Policy AGAINST!! Christian Americans who believe in the Constitution!!

 

And one step further!!

 

Those Christian Americans who NOT!! ONLY!! Believe in Jesus and the Constitution of the United States.. but as well have Served the Sheepeople of American in the Armed Services! Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines!! Were and ARE!! The Largest Terrorist Threat America will face going forward!!

 

Or so says the Jews / Zionists of the Southern Poverty Law Center!

 

Let me dumb it down!

 

The Southern Poverty Law Center all but Wrote the Book on how EVIL, DANGEROUS!! And likely to commit Terrorist Acts against America.. the ENTIRE!! Christian Community / United States Veterans and other God Loving Americans who believe in the Constitution of the United States!!!!! Are / Were / Will / Should / Could / Would be to Destroy America!

 

Once again! So says the Jews / Zionists of the Southern Poverty Law Center!

 

 

Bill Jasper: The SPLC | Last Line of Defense - DVD Trailer (www.cspoa.org)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCiPefTkMvo&playnext=1&list=PLkycSUQF0dlhcdxyh4rzMb7nOZUl-w6Zb&feature=results_main

 

 

Hence!! The United States Government (President Obama!) Ordered the Army to come up with a Plan to Jail! These types of people, in mass!

This is a DIRECT! Link!! To the Army Handbook!! http://info.publicintelligence.net/USArmy-InternmentResettlement.pdf

 

 

This web page (I am NOT! A fan of Alex Jones) does a good job of pointing out some very real issues.. try to look past who is providing the information and concentrate on the FACTS! http://www.infowars.com/yes-the-re-education-camp-manual-does-apply-domestically-to-u-s-citizens/

 

 

From 2009..

Conservatives Decry Homeland Security `Extremism' Report

http://blog.christianitytoday.com/ctpolitics/2009/04/conservatives_d.html

 

 

From 2012..

Christians Deemed Terrorists in Studies Funded By Department of Homeland Security

http://christiannews.net/2012/07/04/christians-deemed-terrorists-in-study-funded-by-department-of-homeland-security/

 

 

You will find 2 Links for the reports at this site as well. They are in blue.. or click on them here.. (http://www.scribd.com/doc/96751145/Profiles-of-Perpetrators-of-Terrorism-in-the-United-States-Codebook) (http://start.umd.edu/start/publications/research_briefs/LaFree_Bersani_HotSpotsOfUSTerrorism.pdf )  just click on them when you get there and read for yourself! How YOU! Have been turned into a Villain! An Enemy of the United States of America! A Terrorist! For Loving Jesus and for Loving Your Country! In America! People who Love Jesus and the Constitution are the Enemy! And the Army has a Plan, a Manual for Jailing You and Re-Educating You!

 

 

Read the Army Handbook about YOUR! Re-Education!! And figure out the truth for yourself! ALL! Of the Links have been provided for you! ALL! The information is at YOUR! Finger tips! This is the direct Link to the Army Handbook for Re-Educating American Citizens within the United States! http://info.publicintelligence.net/USArmy-InternmentResettlement.pdf

 

 

This is the Global Terrorism Data Base.. I have NOT!! Seen ANY!! Jewish / Zionist Terrorist Acts in this data base? Hmmmm? Wonder why that is? LULZ!!

 

 

Here are the Department of Homeland Securities Reports! That the Southern Poverty Law Center Provided intelligence for.. in plain English.. the Jews / Zionists Provided the information that the Federal Government then used! Against Christians! Veterans!! And other Americans who Love the Constitution of the United States!

From 2007 thru 2009! Those that Love Jesus! Those who served the Nation! And those who believe in the LAWS! of this Nation! Have been labeled Terrorists!

http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/hsac-future-terrorism-010107.pdf

http://www.fas.org/irp/eprint/lexicon.pdf

http://www.fas.org/irp/eprint/rightwing.pdf

Here is the Homeland Security Oath!

 

Oath

I, [name], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Uniformed_Services_Oath_of_Office

 

It seems to me? That the Constitution is pretty important to the people over at Homeland Security! They MUST BE HOME GROWN TERRORISTS TOO!!

 

We in America ARE SURROUNDED!! By Home Grown Terrorists!

 

Maybe we ALL! Should report them!

 

http://www.dhs.gov/if-you-see-something-say-something-campaign

 

They want us to report! The Department of Homeland Security to the Department of Homeland Security!!

 

How many Christians? Who served the Country in some Military capacity?? Swore and Oath to the Constitution??? Work at the Department of Homeland Security can there be?

 

No wonder the National Security Administration is recording ALL! Phone Calls, Emails and Pictures from your cell phone they can!

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/03/ff_nsadatacenter/

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLTXRF4w-Cc

 

 

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 16:51 | 3072511 falak pema
falak pema's picture

hey u changed your avatar! 

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 17:00 | 3072545 Goy_Debt_Slave
Goy_Debt_Slave's picture

would you rather I bring back my Puppy?

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 20:34 | 3073235 Salon
Salon's picture

JW in FL.

You need to get back on your lithium.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 17:10 | 3072581 falak pema
falak pema's picture

no your swords and skeleton head say it all.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 15:39 | 3072106 Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

The simplistic thinking and arguments presented here are mind-boggling.  Why assume that anti-depressents are a cause of violence, when you could just as easily posit that it is depression itself that is the cause? 

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 19:41 | 3073102 headless blogger
headless blogger's picture

There is NO evidence that Depression causes violence. In fact, Depression, as the term expresses, makes people lack energy. Depressed people lack energy to do anything. Even suicides are said to happen when the person starts coming out of the depression. People's thinking is slowed...They don't have the energy to plan a quick massacre at the local elementary school.

You could always go tell doctor you are depressed and experiment with some of these meds and see how they affect your mental faculties.

The guns aren't screwing with the guy's mind and moods....the drugs are.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 15:49 | 3072167 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

I see you have very little experience with this shit.

Plenty of kids are being drugged with aderol, which makes them drowsy and then violent.

 

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 22:51 | 3073588 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

Or other wonderful medications. Especially if they have 'help'.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 15:47 | 3072160 George Washington
George Washington's picture

Please AT LEAST watch the first video, before jumping to unscientific conclusions...

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 15:37 | 3072089 The Heart
The Heart's picture

12-17-12

Well, it’s time to expound the writings on this subject. 

Here we see the drones in the middle east and other assorted testing grounds for these evil heartless killers going rampant on innocents with no real concern by the public at large in the country that is responsible for these evil attacks. Mission accomplished. Soon, it will be America’s turn. They are killing and murdering as trained to do, but also, we see the drones attacking and killing here in Newton, CT too.

No, not the flying remote controlled ones, we are witnessing the drones of the bush mind controllers being activated to advance the gun control agenda of the babylonian banksters. These human drones are worse than their aerial counterparts, because they are programmed for suicidal missions so there is no possibility of discovering evidence of the last years of mind conditioning and mission assignment objectives. We read from this revealing and older report:

“If the tested applicant has more than 120 IQ, a "recall" command and an accompanying "trigger" word will be written into his personality during the Level One hypnosis session. This "trigger" will activate his recall program when we are ready for him. We then systematically do a background search and create a file for future reference.

If there are no relatives, to speak of, the subject will be "recalled" and taken to a location of our choice. Further tests for vulnerability will be conducted at this location. If he passes these tests, he is then brought to Level 2 hypnosis where specific instructions are "written" (placed through hypnotic commands and suggestions) into his personality and he is given diverse small orders.

If the subject, upon release, shows that he has retained the instructions which were "written" into his personality, and if he carries out the small and unimportant work duties which were assigned under Level 2 hypnosis, he will receive a "recall service notice".

The timing of a "recall service notice" depends on how quickly we can determine that the programming which was "written" into the subject�s personality has enabled him to complete his Level 2 work assignments properly. Once this determination has been made, a "recall service notice" will be given to him by a person, or "handler" to whom we have introduced him.

If the subject was not given a "trigger" word, the "handler" will use a quick and powerful form of hypnosis similar to Neural Linguistic Programming. The subject will be told when and where to report. The subject will have no memory of being given these instructions, he will just report on time to the proper location. IF the subject was given a "trigger" word or symbol. He will report to the designated location upon activation of the "trigger".”

We have all long known they would use these kinds of drone candidates to implement the reasons for the final clamp-downs on the last of America’s liberties and constitutional rights. Imagine the possibilities of having human drones at your command for any kind of deviant purposes. Ask, what does “poppy” bush have to do with this mans death, big pharma, mind kontrol, and many other assorted evil murderous deeds?

MIND CONTROL IN AMERIKA: Five Easy Steps To Create A Manchurian Candidate:

http://www.rumormillnews.com/operation.htm

There are oodles of al-cia-duh mind control stories and research about it all over the internet if you look for them. Or say, what do drugs and mind control have in common? And the history of such usages? The real astonishing problem is now there is an army of unknown candidate drones poised to be put into action for any number of “jobs” the Manchurian Candidate can be deployed for.

Here is a link for background research into the history of these kinds of events involving SSRI drugs and mind control experiments. Check it out and pass it on to your lists people. These crimes that are happening right in front of a dumbed down nation and world are way to insane to let go on and on and on with no real recourse, or truthful investigations.

http://www.ssristories.com/index.php

It is not the guns that kill, it is the SSRI drugs and mental conditioning, or brainwashing that does. Giving these drugs to kids is like giving a two year old a loaded and cocked hair-triggered gun! The out right banning of these kinds of drugs is the ONLY way to begin to stop this insanity. Prozac, Zoloft, Luvox, Paxil, and all related SSRI antidepressant drugs must be made as illegal as heroin, cocaine, methamphetamines, or any other dangerous substances. There should be harsh attachments of jail time for the distribution of this poisonous evil, and yet it is legally condoned by the sheep who take live virus vaccines to prevent the flu. Not going there in this write.

Why Would a Young Person Start Shooting in School?:

http://www.anh-usa.org/why-would-a-young-person-start-shooting-in-school/

We all must also uncover the criminal mind-controllers behind the puppets that do this.

The CIA Mind Control Doctors: From Harvard to Guantanamo:

http://www.cchrint.org/2009/09/03/cia-mind-control-doctors/

CIA MIND CONTROL EXPERIMENTS:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSOOK3tocTk

Mind Control Cover-up: The Secrets of Mind Control:

http://wanttoknow.info/mindcontrol

Follow the yellow brick road!

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Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!