Big Brother Spying Didn’t Stop Connecticut School Shooter … Or 9/11

Beyond any doubt, Big Brother has come to America.

Americans are the most spied on people in world history.

Everyone in the country is spied on … and even top generals, Congress men and CIA directors  can be targeted.

The separation between spy agencies and military operations has disappeared … to the point where the same unaccountable government agency which spies on all Americans also decides who gets assassinated by drones.

And anyone who questions government actions or policies may be labeled a potential terrorist.

And yet – even with Big Brother sticking his nose in every aspect of our lives – that total surveillance didn’t stop the Connecticut school shooter.  Or the Batman shooter, the shooter of Congresswoman Giffords, Columbine, Virginia Tech, etc. etc. etc.

Of course, widespread spying on Americans began before 9/11 (confirmed here and here. And see this)

And U.S. and allied intelligence heard the 9/11 hijackers plans from their own mouths:

• An FBI informant hosted and rented a room to two hijackers in 2000. Specifically, investigators for the Congressional Joint Inquiry discovered that an FBI informant had hosted and even rented a room to two hijackers in 2000 and that, when the Inquiry sought to interview the informant, the FBI refused outright, and then hid him in an unknown location, and that a high-level FBI official stated these blocking maneuvers were undertaken under orders from the White House. As the New York Times notes:
  

  Senator Bob Graham, the Florida Democrat who is a former chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, accused the White House on Tuesday of covering up evidence ….The accusation stems from the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s refusal to allow investigators for a Congressional inquiry and the independent Sept. 11 commission to interview an informant, Abdussattar Shaikh, who had been the landlord in San Diego of two Sept. 11 hijackers.

• According to Le Monde, the intelligence services of America’s close ally France and of other governments had infiltrated the highest levels of Al-Qaeda’s camps, and actually listened to the hijackers’ debates about which airlines’ planes should be hijacked, and allied intelligence services also intercepted phone conversations between Al-Qaeda members regarding the attacks

• According to journalist Christopher Ketcham, America’s close ally Israel tracked the hijackers’ every move prior to the attacks, and sent agents to film the attack on the World Trade Centers

• The National Security Agency and the FBI were each independently listening in on the phone calls between the supposed mastermind of the attacks and the lead hijacker. Indeed, the FBI built its own antenna in Madagascar specifically to listen in on the mastermind’s phone calls

• According to various sources, on the day before 9/11, the mastermind told the lead hijacker “tomorrow is zero hour” and gave final approval for the attacks. The NSA intercepted the message that day and the FBI was likely also monitoring the mastermind’s phone calls

• Shortly before 9/11, the NSA also intercepted multiple phone calls to the United States from Bin Laden’s chief of operations

• The CIA and the NSA had been intercepting phone calls by the hijackers for years (see also this)

• According to the Sunday Herald, two days before 9/11, Bin Laden called his stepmother and told her “In two days, you’re going to hear big news and you’re not going to hear from me for a while.” U.S. officials later told CNN that “in recent years they’ve been able to monitor some of bin Laden’s telephone communications with his [step]mother. Bin Laden at the time was using a satellite telephone, and the signals were intercepted and sometimes recorded.” Indeed, before 9/11, to impress important visitors, NSA analysts would occasionally play audio tapes of bin Laden talking to his stepmother.

• And according to CBS News, at 9:53 a.m on 9/11, just 15 minutes after the hijacked plane had hit the Pentagon, “the National Security Agency, which monitors communications worldwide, intercepted a phone call from one of Osama bin Laden’s operatives in Afghanistan to a phone number in the former Soviet Republic of Georgia”, and secretary of Defense Rumsfeld learned about the intercepted phone call in real-time (if the NSA monitored and transcribed phone calls in real-time on 9/11, that implies that it did so in the months leading up to 9/11 as well)

But even with all of that spying, the government didn't stop the hijackers ... even though 9/11 was entirely foreseeable.

Why did we lose our rights if the government isn’t even keeping us safe?

Comments

[George Washington]

? ? ? ?

[Body of Lies]

Interesting George Washington channeling Winston Churchill

[Reptil]

interesting.

FYI I found a working link to the "Operation Gladio" video, which is a "forgotten" but important part of history, the CIA terrorist weapons caches were later used by "for profit" psychopath criminals like "The Gang of Nijvel" in Belgium, and others in the Netherlands who found out about it, somehow. http://youtu.be/AUvrPvV-KQo

I think the question referred to the supposed denail of Osama Bin Laden in an Al Jazeerah interview, also referenced by CNN on 16th of sept 2001
http://articles.cnn.com/2001-09-16/us/inv.binladen.denial_1_bin-laden-ta...

On the subject of motive, this guy (group?) has put together a really comprehensive compilation of connections pertaining to corporate involvement in the collapse of the WTC buildings. I'd appreciate your opinion of the presented hypothesis:
http://youtu.be/n_fp5kaVYhk

thnx

[Disenchanted]

Ummat Interviews Usamah Bin-Ladin
28 September 2001

UMMAT: You have been accused of involvement in the attacks in New York and Washington. What do you want to say about this? If you are not involved, who might be?

USAMA BIN LADEN: In the name of Allah (God), the most beneficent, the most merciful. Praise be to Allah, Who is the creator of the whole universe and Who made the Earth as an abode for peace, for the whole humankind. Allah is the Sustainer, who sent Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) for our guidance. I am thankful to the Ummat Group of Publications, which gave me the opportunity to convey my viewpoint to the people, particularly the valiant and momin (true Muslim) people of Pakistan who refused to believe the lies of the demon (Pakistani military dictator General Pervez Musharraf).

I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other humans as an appreciable act. Islam strictly forbids causing harm to innocent women, children and other people. Such a practice is forbidden even in the course of a battle. It is the United States, which is perpetrating every maltreatment on women, children and common people of other faiths, particularly the followers of Islam. All that is going on in Palestine for the last 11 months is sufficient to call the wrath of God upon the United States and Israel. There is also a warning for those Muslim countries, which witnessed all these as a silent spectator. What had earlier been done to the innocent people of Iraq, Chechnya and Bosnia? Only one conclusion could be derived from the indifference of the United States and the West to these acts of terror and the patronage of the tyrants by these powers that America is an anti-Islamic power and it is patronizing the anti-Islamic forces. Its friendship with the Muslim countries is just a show, rather deceit. By enticing or intimidating these countries, the United States is forcing them to play a role of its choice. Put a glance all around and you will see that the slaves of the United States are either rulers or enemies of Muslims.

The U.S. has no friends, nor does it want to keep any because the prerequisite of friendship is to come to the level of the friend or consider him at par with you. America does not want to see anyone equal to it. It expects slavery from others. Therefore, other countries are either its slaves or subordinates. However, our case is different. We have pledged slavery to God Almighty alone and after this pledge there is no possibility to become the slave of someone else. If we do that it will be disregardful to both our Sustainer and his fellow beings. Most of the world nations upholding their freedom are the religious ones, which are the enemies of the United States, or the U.S. itself considers them as its enemies.

The countries which do not agree to become the U.S. slaves are China, Iran, Libya, Cuba, Syria [Afghanistan, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Iraq, Sudan, Indonesia, Malaysia] and Russia. Whoever committed the act of 11 September are not the friends of the American people. I have already said that we are against the American system, not against its people, whereas in these attacks, the common American people have been killed. According to my information, the death toll is much higher than what the U.S. Government has stated. But the Bush Administration does not want the panic to spread. The United States should try to trace the perpetrators of these attacks within itself; the people who are a part of the U.S. system, but are dissenting against it. Or those who are working for some other system; persons who want to make the present century as a century of conflict between Islam and Christianity so that their own civilization, nation, country, or ideology could survive. They can be anyone, from Russia to Israel and from India to Serbia. In the U.S. itself, there are dozens of well-organized and well-equipped groups, which are capable of causing a large-scale destruction. Then you cannot forget the American-Jews, who are annoyed with President Bush ever since the elections in Florida and want to avenge him.

Then there are intelligence agencies in the U.S., which require billions of dollars worth of funds from the Congress and the government every year. This [funding issue] was not a big problem till the existence of the former Soviet Union but after that the budget of these agencies has been in danger. They needed an enemy. So, they first started propaganda against Usama and Taleban and then this incident happened. You see, the Bush Administration approved a budget of 40 billion dollars. Where will this huge amount go? It will be provided to the same agencies, which need huge funds and want to exert their importance. Now they will spend the money for their expansion and for increasing their importance. I will give you an example. Drug smugglers from all over the world are in contact with the U.S. secret agencies. These agencies do not want to eradicate narcotics cultivation and trafficking because their importance will be diminished. The people in the U.S. Drug Enforcement Department are encouraging drug trade so that they could show performance and get millions of dollars worth of budget. General Noriega was made a drug baron by the CIA and, in need, he was made a scapegoat. In the same way, whether it is President Bush or any other U.S. President, they cannot bring Israel to justice for its human rights abuses or to hold it accountable for such crimes. What is this? Is it not that there exists a government within the government in the United Sates? That secret government must be asked as to who carried out the attacks.

Paul Craig Roberts also brought this subject up in a column late last month:

The Osama bin Laden Myth

excerpt:

The interview below with Osama bin Laden was conducted by the Karachi, Pakistan, daily newspaper, Ummat and published on September 28, 2001, 17 days after the alleged, but unsubstantiated, al Qaeda attack of September 11, 2001, on the World Trade Center twin towers and Pentagon. The interview was sensational. The alleged “mastermind” of 9/11 said that he and al Qaeda had nothing to do with the 9/11 attack. The British Broadcasting Corporation’s World Monitoring Service had the interview translated into English and made public on September 29, 2001.

Osama bin Laden’s sensational denial was not reported by the US print and TV media. It was not investigated by the executive branch. No one in the US Congress called attention to bin Laden’s refusal of responsibility for the greatest humiliation ever inflicted on a superpower.

To check my memory of the lack of coverage, I googled “Osama bin Laden’s interview denying responsibility for 9/11.” Some Internet sites reproduced the interview, but the only mainstream news source that I found was a 1 minute YouTube video from CNN in which the anchor, after quoting an al Jazeera report of bin Laden’s denial, concludes that “we can all weigh that in the scale of credibility and come to our own conclusions.” In other words, bin Laden had already been demonized, and his denial was not credible.

The sensational news was unfit for US citizens and was withheld from them by the american “free press,” a press free to lie for the government but not to tell the truth.

continued at link: The Osama bin Laden Myth

Lew Rockwell's site also has the interview posted:

Interview With Osama bin Laden. Denies His Involvement in 9/11
Full text of Pakistani paper's Sept 2001 "exclusive" interview

Daily Ummat in Urdu, BBC translation in English, 2001

http://www.lewrockwell.com/rep2/obl-2001-interview.html

[Forgiven]

<--Willful neglect

[Slightly Insane]

The folks (you know who I mean) were educated at the same public institutions that for some reason they still call schools (I prefer "indoctrination feeding centers", as they largely do both).  They are indeed incapable of connecting the dots, as logic is something to be abhorred in the public institution.  Individual thought has been effectively outlawed.  Most questions are never asked, and of course the answers remain buried next to the latest casualty.

I heard that the Hillary was not going to testify on the Benghazi - due to a "reported" thump on the head.  Please explain to me how anything less then a beheading would prevent the Secretary of State from having to testify?  This IS NOT MY COUNTRY!  If I were in charge (and this was still a law abiding / God fearing country) .... I would have her (Hillary) on a RACK IN FRONT OF CONGRESS.  But then again most of those folks are indeed nuts and psychopaths who are complicit in the shennanaghans.

[notadouche]

No one in Congress would want to see her rack.

[Tsunami Wave]

Something I'm still waiting to hear on is the security of the school.  With schools these days, you have to buzz in and stop by the front office to state your business.. which is exactly what I had to do just 2 years ago at my former high school.  I'm EAGERLY waiting to hear why the school security system.. which supposedly was similar to the one my old high school had.. was not "working".....

[mayhem_korner]

TW - the guy shot his way into the school.  They were aware of his presence in 10 seconds and had the first responders there in less than 10 minutes.  If you know the area - I live 5 miles from the Sandy Hook school - you know that the response was as immediate as it could have been. 

The story that people do not understand is how much worse it could have been.  The dude had hundreds of additional rounds - enough to waste the entire school.

The problem is not the surveillance system or the guns.  The problem was in the guy's head.  Period.

[notadouche]

Changing the subject, is the Newtown Inn and Mona Lisa still in operation?  

[Tsunami Wave]

Well that answers my question.  What's the right solution.. and I guess the politically right solution that will come in the end?

[mayhem_korner]

In my view, the collective error being made is that the solution is simple.  People are complex, and social structures morph over time.  If you time-warped someone from 1980 to today, they would not even recognize the prevailing social norms.  My point is that the complex of elements that influence people's state of mind and capacity are way, way beyond any elemental fix.

[Tsunami Wave]

There's no perfect solution.  I'm still a fan though of CCPs, and training constantly how to use guns... The guy at the coin shop I visit carries a gun in his pocket in his store.  If anyone came by and tried to rob him, he'd shoot that person dead.

[WalterWhite]

Lt Vance already answered your question.

He said he doesnt know and has no information about any survailance system. This was said three days into the investigation. 

He DOESNT KNOW IF THERE IS A SURVAILANCE SYSTEM.

These guys are just plain evil.

They know not what they do...or do they

[Tsunami Wave]

Supposedly the kid shot through a window(s) to get inside the school.  Usually, the FBI would have done surveillance for a while on a person of interest like this like all of the suspects in "foiled" bomb and terrorist plots.

[Slightly Insane]

TsunamiWave-  just think 5 seconds about what you just wrote;

Doesn't matter.  An assailant could wait until the school let out ... when the doors are open.  If someone wanted to do harm to the kids, hitting them whan the buss line forms would be the time and place to do it.  I personally think the proper response to this shit is training and carry conceal with some portion of the staff (and buss crew).  The idea is that anytime there is a concentration of chillums, then it's necessary to have some folks with aggressive protective measures.  I would also want my lunch moms to carry some heat.  Enough pussying around.  The school and Government have stripped out God (even the morons and a-hole retards were educated (indoctrinated) to know that killing folks was something that epitomized evil), so now you've got a society devoid of anything remotely moral (good job ACLU and the Government - you pussies, you fucked this shit up you stupid idiots.  My only consolation is that the same a-holes that thought was a good idea, do not carry guns and are likely to be casualties along the way.  Their mothers were stupid and did not educate them in the ways of "man without God".  Good luck with that .... (explicitely for you Godless bastards).   I'll be the one defending your kids against the Godless bastards, but as for defending you, I may have to think about it.

[Socratic Dog]

I was in Israel about 25 years ago.  A bit tense at the time, there'd been some attacks, someone hijacked a bus and drove it off a cliff I recall.  Anyway, at the Wailing Wall there were groups of schoolkids with their teachers.  Most of the male teachers had a military-style rifle, or sometimes an Uzi,  hanging casually off a shoulder, and they looked pretty watchfull.  I was impressed.  Compare that to our reaction....or that of the whining bitches in the media and government, anyway.  We don't look too impressive.  Especially when you take into account how little we care about the innocents our military slaughters all over the world.

Truly we are the sheeple.

Not quite sure what god, or godlessness, has to do with this.  But whatever...

[Tsunami Wave]

I'll be defending myself.  I'm a Christian myself, though I keep that pretty private to myself. Who knows what the future entails...

[gwar5]

Rhetorical Question: If we are in such peril we need a police state and feel up grannies to keep us safe from terrorists, why are they coming for the guns of law abiding citizens who have always been the first line of defense?

[Ar-Pharazôn]

obvious answer: because firearms are the only thing that keeps american people virtually free. once firearms are gone, the last piece of freedom of the american people will be gone

[Reptil]

On 9-11-2001 the WTC buildings (1,2,6 and 7) were blown up with the use of militairy issue nano thermate (a kind of thermite).

that's undisputed, peer-reviewed, scientific fact. in our society the thing most resembling truth.

http://aneta.org/NielsHarrit_org/BenthamOpenThermite.pdf

there was a subliminal trigger in the movie "Dark Knight Rises", a character pointed at a specific part of a map at 1:58:42 in, and called for "bring it down"

on the map there's only one word that's clearly visible: "Sandy Hook".

http://www.imgbox.de/users/Deckard666/Sonstiges/The_Dark_Knight_Rises___...

Meanwhile in Japan, kids are fed rice from radioactive contaminated paddies. Mandatory. Because it's "cheaper"(?). That's not only the bankruptcy of a financial strategy, an imaginairy construct (with the purpose to regulate some part of reality), but if those people accept it, a bankruptcy of their whole civilisation. We're not far behind.

The best prisoncell ever invented is our own mind. Therefore prison is the society we want to expect, because we've been told to do so, and accepted it's reality.

[lasvegaspersona]

Reptil

thanks you for the references. These are a much better kind of reference than one usually get in these parts. I expected to find myself watching a PrisonPlanet video, you give us science and a really interesting screen save (not sure what the Sandy Hook on the maps means but at least wow, what find..

[Reptil]

thank you for the polite reaction. I'm just a messenger, pass information along that passed my own scrutiny (FWIW) looking for responses and real answers.

yes, it's science. perhaps you'd also be interested in this video of BBC documentary maker Micheal Rudin interviewing prof. Niels Harrit on this publication.
It's worth watching to the end, if just to observe the full array of traps, and tricks employed by the interviewer.

http://youtu.be/Xi5xg3CuILI

On the "Sandy Hook" subliminal message in the last Batman movie; it's very strange indeed. "holy fucking shit" was my first thought.

As you might know, it was at the "Sandy Hook" elementary school (Conneticut) where a 20 year old went on a killing rampage a few days ago.
Look at the segment yourself please?

What it means exactly I can't tell you, I'm not a psychologist or expert on subliminal messages. I barely missed the "Fight Club" ones. ;-)
(edit: 12-20-2012)

[WillyGroper]

>>>>On 9-11-2001 the WTC buildings (1,2,6 and 7) were blown up with the use of militairy issue nano thermate

Here's another very compelling angle that I'd never seen until 2day.  The last 40 min. is mind boggling. Tesla-directed energy. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqbcsU0_RjU

[Reptil]

I'm sorry, I disagree with you there. Judy Wood's "theory" is a psyops to confuse those interested.
It's important to seperate (proven) fact from fiction. I've looked into it; "I bet they felt some kind of energy" is not fact.
a short dissection of three theories: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxKB9hNvwX0

an interview where it's clear there's no real basis for her story, despite her repetition of the word "evidence": http://youtu.be/rJZrj0leylc?t=2m20s

IMO dr. Judy Wood deserves no further attention. :-)

[WillyGroper]

Thanks for the links. It was the directed energy that got my attention. B4 Sandy hit, a friend of mine was watching weather radar in real time. There were bursts in the shape of a bullseye all up & down the east coast. The next day, I pulled up the map & by the TX-MX border saw the same pattern. No visible weather pattern. It then moved to the DFW area. The following day on the northern CO border, I got a screen shot of scaler waves happening repeatedly. Once again no visible weather pattern. After perusing this link, it all makes me go hmmm.

http://sincedutch.wordpress.com/2012/04/24/want-to-know-about-weather-mo...

[ejmoosa]

The spying will not be used to halt the mentally deranged.

Instead, it will be used to halt the opposition to the powers that be in charge at the time. It will be used against rational, freedom loving individuals when the time is right.

For they are a greater threat than two or three nuts that lose it each year.

[JustObserving]

According to journalist Christopher Ketcham, America’s close ally Israel tracked the hijackers’ every move prior to the attacks, and sent agents to film the attack on the World Trade Centers

Here's what Francesco Cossiga, the former president of Italy, who revealed the truth about Operation Gladio had to say about 9/11:

Former Italian President and the man who revealed the existence of Operation Gladio Francesco Cossiga has gone public on 9/11, telling Italy's most respected newspaper that the attacks were run by the CIA and Mossad and that this was common knowledge amongst global intelligence agencies.

Cossiga was elected President of the Italian Senate in July 1983 before winning a landslide 1985 election to become President of the country in 1985.

Cossiga gained respect from opposition parties as one of a rare breed - an honest politician - and led the country for seven years until April 1992.

Cossiga's tendency to be outspoken upset the Italian political establishment and he was forced to resign after revealing the existence of, and his part in setting up, Operation Gladio - a rogue intelligence network under NATO auspices that carried out bombings across Europe in the 60's, 70's and 80's.

"[Bin Laden supposedly confessed] to the Qaeda September [attack] to the two towers in New York [claiming to be] the author of the attack of the 11, while all the [intelligence services] of America and Europe ... now know well that the disastrous attack has been planned and realized from the CIA American and the Mossad with the aid of the Zionist world in order to put under accusation the Arabic Countries and in order to induce the western powers to take part ... in Iraq [and] Afghanistan."

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/december2007/120407_common_knowledg...

[monad]

Why did 'we' lose our rights? Because you're the bunch of disorganized pussies and whores left over after the purges of the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s, followed by the corporate takeover of the 90s and the outright takeover of the last decade. FSM, anyone? Atrophy by permawar? Surely you don't really believe all our intellectual property just slipped away, and the American IT boom was regulated out of existence by accident? Fucking Congress should be hanged for what they did, and didn't do. The reason for the second amendment is to defend ourselves should congress fail... 

[Radical Marijuana]

Sometimes I have a hard time deciding on how to regard George Washington's rhetorical questions. Those appear to crop up in the course of his careful dance through the mine field of political reality or political correctness, that will not totally cancel any ability to appeal to the mainstream views, so that his articles will be more widely disseminated.

Since I have almost nothing to lose, I repeat what I consider as the plainly obvious facts, without compromise:

9/11 was an inside job false flag attack. It was deliberately designed to achieve multiple goals, and succeeded fantastically at doing that! The point is the pyramidion people are consolidating their control over a steeper and steeper social pyramid system, through greater lies, backed by more violence.  Americans are not losing their rights to keep them safe. Obviously, that is a ridiculous idea, and the opposite of what is really going on! What is happening is that a smaller and smaller group is controlling everyone else through bigger lies, backed up by more violence. That is on a runaway path towards its own madness and self-destruction. However, everything within the established systems enable them to continue to do more of that, despite how badly the final effects will backfire upon everyone, including even the elites, who are creating an inhuman system, that will supersede and destroy them too, eventually.

Obviously, the biggest terrorist organization in the world is the Federal government of the USA, and others are terrorists in proportion to which they are allies of that government. Control of that government was long ago captured by the international bankers, who were systematically able to turn the masses of people into muppets, and almost all politicians into puppets.

The most psychotic laws that Americans ever passed were the 1947 national security laws. National security has become the single most psychotic concept dominating postmodernizing America. That is all about the international bankers being able to consolidate their control over the American government, and extend their hegemony over the whole world. Big brother spying is working to keep the current systems of power and privilege in place, by defending the runaway frauds, backed by force, that control things. As usually the case, the dance with the mainstream articles, that the one above represents, is a bizarre, half-assed, and partially twisted effort to present more "truth," in ways that still compromise with the huge lies mostly believed in by that mainstream society.

The "truth" is that can never be anything else than an infinite tunnel of deceits. Reality always is organized systems of lies, operating organized robberies. People were brainwashed to believe in bullshit that it ever was anything else, or ever could be anything else. Therefore, the checks and balances over the powers of governments were able to be systematically undermined and destroyed.

As the original President George Washington said:

"Government is not reason, nor eloquence. It is force.

And like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearsome master."

The Federal government of the USA is now an out-of-control conflagration. It has turned into a wild fire, that is consuming everything in its path. All of the checks and balances that were supposed to limit that fire, and restrain it to being a "dangerous servant" have been systematically overthrown. The government is now a "fearsome master."

The primary ways that that happened were due to the international bankers being able to regain control over the American money supply, which has happened at an exponentially accelerating rate, for more than a Century. After taking control of the American money supply, it was relatively easy to buy up control over everything else, such as the mass media, and the political processes. Other crucial turning points of the best organized gangs of criminals taking covert control of the government were the PSYCHOTIC NATIONAL SECURITY LAWS, which have done more than anything else to create the conditions which enabled the systematic destruction of real "national security" by making it more and more possible for the best organized gangs of covert criminals to control the government.

Government IS a force like fire. That force in the USA is now out-of-control, and is being used to systematically burn down the democratic republic that was supposed to limit it to become a "useful servant." Instead, runaway legalized lies, backed by legalized violence, effectively controlled by the best organized gangs of criminals, "fearsome masters," many of who are not even American citizens, ARE directing what is happening within America, and around most of the world, more and more ...

There is no reasonable hope that that will get better, since most people have already been brainwashed too much to believe in bullshit about "government." Since enough of the masses of people have been reduced to being merely muppets, it is routinely possible for the political puppets to be successful by being the best professional liars, and immaculate hypocrites, working for the muppet/puppet masters, which are the covert gangs of organized criminals, that were able to systematically subvert the government, and turn that into being the opposite of everything that it was supposed to be. Big brother is not going to stop the runaway fascist plutocracy juggernaut from steamrollering over people. Big brother made that machine, and is directing how it is being driven. Obviously runaway systems of organized lies, operating organized robberies, became an out-of-control conflagration, which is burning down everything that used to contain it.

Furthermore, IF the masses were not muppets, and the politicians were not puppets, then they would admit and understand the basic truth that government IS a force like fire. Government IS organized lies, operating organized robberies, backed by murders. It is NOT possible for government to ever be anything else. Since Americans became too brainwashed to believe in bullshit, they have allowed the best organized gangs of criminals, working covertly, to take control of "their" government, and use its power to destroy them.

The basic problem in the USA, and most of the world, is that impossible ideals and false fundamental dichotomies are taken for granted, as the basis for public political debates, although they are nothing but the bullshit social stories of the biggest bullies, which benefit those bullies. The government is ALWAYS the best organized gang of public criminals, and the biggest public terrorists. Those who really control the government are the supreme organized private crime gangs. It is obvious common sense that those who control the money supply, and hold the government in debt, are those best organized gangs of criminals, that control the government.

Everything that is happening is being driven by the best organized private gangs of criminals directing the public gangs of criminals. That was able to become a runaway social insanity because citizens have become too brainwashed to understand that they ARE members of an organized crime gang, and therefore, have become ineffective at limiting the force of government to be a fire that serves them, rather than conflagration that is consuming them. The path that "national security" is on now in the USA is a very significant aspect of the overall decline and fall of civilization, that is going through a complete set of related psychotic breakdowns, due to being almost completely controlled by systems of huge lies.

CONTROL BY HUGE LIES WORKS IN THE SHORT-TERM...

HOWEVER, IT DESTROYS ITSELF IN THE LONGER TERM!

THAT IS WHAT BIG BROTHER DOES, NOT "KEEP US SAFE!"

[DaveyJones]

well done

[max2205]

We've been fighting something since 1700; can't expect that record to be halted overnight. Now we fight within

[Vegetius]

The issue is one of control and as for "gratuitious grab at attention and grandstanding."

the sight of a US President crying is amusing given the body count that that office has built up since Barack came into to power. With things coming apart a the seams the Regime will become more dictatorial and violent it will move to crush any opposition or means of forming one and a population that is armed would be a valid fear for elite who are losing the trust of their own people.

As an aside one should look to what links the massacres in American schools and antidepressants do seem to top that list, perhaps someone might want to ask how these drugs were and are tested before sale to the public and to children.

"The number of ministers, of magistrates, of officers, and of servants, who filled the different departments of the state, was mul­tiplied beyond the example of for­mer times; and (if we may bor­row the warm expression of a con­temporary) ‘when the proportion of those who received exceeded the proportion of those who con­tributed the provinces were op­pressed by the weight of tributes.’ From this period to the extinction of the empire it would be easy to deduce an uninterrupted series of clamours and complaints."

- Gibbon

The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws.
- Tacitus

[MurderNeverWasLove]

http://www.ssristories.com/index.php

[ThisIsBob]

Its all about jobs.

[notadouche]

Government spying on it's citizens is not about keeping the individual safe, it is about keeping the government/politicians safe.  In the course of history, which is all we can really go on when it comes to comparisons one can only look at what happened in other societies enduring similar circumstances.  

Hitler's Germany.  Stalin's Russia.  Hoover's USA. The Chinese etc... The list could go on but I think the point is made.  The bottom line is how did that work out for the citizen and the country in the long run?    

One ironic turn of events for the US is when Hoover used the FBI to keep files , wire taps, surveillance etc...on private citizens, many were celebrities and professors/intellectuals.  The hollywood blacklist was one result and boy were the entertainers pissed and many still are.  That type of spying also led to McCarthyism.  Not a pretty period for the nation.  Now the irony is that these same type of elites are all for the Patriot Act.  Well initially they were dead set against it when Bush enacted it (rightfully so IMHO) but now that Obama not only did NOT rescind the authority but actually ENHANCED it, these same folks are apparently all for it.  What is it that they don't understand when it comes to history repeating itself? 

Somewhere down the line these same surveillance techniques used on the private citizen will be turned  against the politcal and celebrity and media elites in a manner that they will detest.  Then and only then will there be some uproar against the use of everyday spying,  monitoring, eavsdropping, reading, etc... of phone, text, email, conversations etc...  Or at the very least there is about to be a shitload of blackmailing.  Either way once again when the history of the country during this period is written it will won't be very pretty.

[Madcow]

Private Prison Company Used in Drug Raids at Public High School

https://www.commondreams.org/headline/2012/11/27-1

[mayhem_korner]

Just a point of fact: spying/watching people is not, in and of itself, an infringement of rights.  No one has the right to "privacy" despite what some will argue.  There are property rights which cannot be infringed to enable spying.  There are also rights-infringing actions that can be enabled by spying, at which point the spying is an accomplice to the crime.  But no one's rights are infringed simply by being watched.

[MrPalladium]

In Griswold v Connecticut the Supreme Court found a right of privacy - an "emanation" from the Fourth, incorporated into the Fourteenth and thereby applicable to the states as well as fed gov.

I might not agree with the decision, but it is the law of the land and certainly is the expectation of all liberals and the vast majority of the population.

In short, you do not know what you are talking about.

[notadouche]

There are certain voyerism statutes that seem to be in direct conflict with your ascertion of "point of fact".  Your "point of fact" is more aptly titled "point of fiction" or "point of ignorance of the law".  

[mayhem_korner]

Reference, please.  Where in the Constitution is the right to privacy?  Voyeurism is criminal because of the assault component.  In that case, it is inseparable from the spying.  But that's not really what this post is getting at.

[notadouche]

I didn't say it was in the Constitution.  We are supposed to be a nation of laws and not every single law is written in the Constituiton.  It is in fact against the law to video or peep on a person when a "reasonable person" has the expectation of privacy such as a bedroom or a bathroom.

One recent case was the guy from ESPN who used surveillance video on Erin Andrews catching her in various stages of undress in her hotel room and he was arrested and found guilty of criminal voyerism.  No assualt involved unless you consider invasion of privacy an assault, which most people do.  That was a clear case of the guy spying on her.  

Need more?  You could Google as each state has it's own law regarding spying on a person when they have a reasonable expectation of privacy.  

I believe there is something written somewhere about something called search warrants that prevent illegal wire taps and video taps etc.   You might want to investigate that a little bit as well if you need more information.

[mayhem_korner]

Nice try, but a miss.  Illegal searches and taps are just that, illegal.  Implicit in that is that there is observation that is not illegal.  There is a line.  And that line is not defined by a right to privacy.  It is defined by other prohibitions.

Criminal voyeurism is a derivative of assault.  By the way, the crime of assault does not require touching someone.  It is the creation of a threat that gives rise to assault.  That's why you have "assault and battery" charges - the assault is the threat, the battery is the actual physical contact.  Voyeurism is an assault because it carries with it the threat of harm. 

Regardless of what you believe, I'm not defending anyone who invades peoples privacy, and spying of the type on Erin Andrews is detestable.  All I'm pointing out is that the act of surveillance, spying, observing, etc. is not by itself a prohibited activity.  Y'all insist on ascribing a judgment that I'm not pushing.

Please list the rights that have been violated by the people observing you in your daily walk.  When you come back with "none", you'll get my point.

[notadouche]

Modern tort law please see "Intrusion of solitude" for starters.  

I could perhaps be in a different idea than you as I just read "observing you in your daily walk"  When I'm in public then yes I expect no privacy.  When I'm in a place that a reasonable person would expect privacy then we are speaking of a different matter.   You sit outside my house and observe me and my family then I have a right to solitude and to be "left alone". In public I don't think a "reasonable person" can expect privacy.  Apples and oranges. I'll take the blame for the mix.  

I'll take an education from you.  If I'm being "voyered" as it were and I don't know it's happening then how could I feel a threat of harm, thus how could assault be implicit?  Without knowledge how could I claim threat?  Just curious if your still around.

[beaglebog]

I suppose that, without "awareness" ... this never gets to court.

[mayhem_korner]

Put an apple on a sleeping person's head and shoot it with an arrow from 50 yards.  If the person never wakes and develops an awareness of the incident, there is no assault (legally).  Threat of harm is a function of awareness.  There are voyeurism "crimes" that happen daily but never become crimes because of lack of awareness of the person being observed.  It's completely stupid, but that's the way it is.

BTW, I don't disagree with the primary notion that spying is inherently bad.  But it isn't unlawful. 

[Reptil]

"Threat of harm is a function of awareness" How about someone finding out, after the fact they've been observed in their private surroundings? Then there's a threat, and the perception thereof. Following your line of reasoning, a person can only be held accountable infringing on someone's privacy when they're found out. The now operational trucks with deep penetration scanners (that can easily look into people's houses) are, according to your reasoning, not any problem since mostly they will go unnoticed.

I see where you're going with this; you don't see privacy as a right, more like a state of being, defined by various laws, because of various reasons.
I see it as an unalienable right, the right to be left alone, unwatched when conducting private business, like having sex, or eating, or conducting business. It's only scantily protected by law, which however doesn't mean it's an invalid concept.

"Bad" is a subjective, emotional connotation, while (un)lawful in your view defines the boundaries of society. Up to a point I can agree with that. It's a typical american POV if you allow me the observation, to define anything into "will uphold in court" or not.

HOWEVER, there's such a thing as Human Rights: http://gilc.org/privacy/survey/intro.html

FWIW I'll try to make a case for a different POV towards "privacy" and other human rights, as opposed to the idea of Law as the overall determining factor. There's no benefit to society to have individuals watched in their every move, in a free society, it's not in the "Social Contract" (read Rousseau please) between People and State, for the simple reason it's not of benefit to the larger group, it's a practice that stems from the idea that individuals must be dominated by the State, for it to function. The next stage is that the State will demand control over individuals, anywhere where the individual is not protected by written law, from government. Of course that's the purpose of laws as well, to protect the individual, but it's not correct to reverse this line of reasoning: The State cannot claim dominance over an individual outside it's clearly defined role, this infringes on the existence of the individual, outside it's functioning within a community.
Here's an attempt to define "State": http://philosophy.wisc.edu/hunt/A%20Definition%20of%20the%20State.htm
So, I object to this, observing or controlling private life is not the function of the State, or of it's security apparatus. It's not it's right to infringe into citizen's lives, though now many pretend it is. The State issues law, through it's judiciairy. Anything that's not clearly defined in those, does not befall automatically to the State's decision.

The President of the United States seems to agree these "elusive" human rights are inherent (and therefore uninfringable).
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2010/12/10/statement-presiden...
I wish he'd not just use the concept of "fundamental freedoms" to annoy foreign leaders of "less free countries" visiting: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41150249/ns/politics-white_house/t/obama-pre... But that the most powerful government on this planet would themselves use these concepts and measure their own laws and behaviour to it.

[notadouche]

Now that you put it that particular way it's clear I made a pretty stupid comment about "knowledge and assault".  

Hard to believe that we had such a lengthy exchange, not quite being on the same page and yet it never reduced itself to insult or disrespect.  What a concept.

[monad]

I have inalienable rights including and not limited to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I also include privacy. If you think there is nothing wrong with spying on me, explain why noone who works for the IRS talks of it openly, and all the sneaky vermin hide. I tell you what: you go openly ogle some little girls in a park until someone comes over and asks you you're doing. You explain your bullshit to them just like you did here and see what they think. Learn to push back.

[mayhem_korner]

I didn't say there was nothing wrong with it.  I'm just pointing out that it is not by itself a crime codified in the Constitution.

Apparently you don't read well, else you would have gotten that.  And if you ever read the Declaration of Independence, you will note that the phrase "inalienable rights" does not appear in it.