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Flashback from 1975: “The NSA's Capability ... Could Enable It To Impose Total Tyranny, And There Would Be No Way To Fight Back

George Washington's picture




 

Senator Church’s Prophetic Warning

Senator Frank Church – who chaired the famous “Church Committee” into the unlawful FBI Cointel program, and who chaired the Senate Foreign Relations Committee – said in 1975:

“Th[e National Security Agency's]  capability at any time could be turned around on the American people, and no American would have any privacy left, such is the capability to monitor everything: telephone conversations, telegrams, it doesn’t matter. There would be no place to hide.  [If a dictator ever took over, the N.S.A.] could enable it to impose total tyranny, and there would be no way to fight back.

Now, the NSA is building a $2 billion dollar facility in Utah which will use the world’s most powerful supercomputer to monitor virtually all phone calls, emails, internet usage, purchases and rentals, break all encryption, and then store everyone’s data permanently.

The former head of the program for the NSA recently held his thumb and forefinger close together, and said:

We are, like, that far from a turnkey totalitarian state

So Senator Church’s warning was prophetic.

Spying Began Before 9/11

While you might assume that the NSA’s spying on Americans is a response to 9/11, the government’s illegal spying on Americans actually began before 9/11.

Bloomberg reported in 2006:

The U.S. National Security Agency asked AT&T Inc. to help it set up a domestic call monitoring site seven months before the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks, lawyers claimed June 23 in court papers filed in New York federal court.

 

“The Bush Administration asserted this became necessary after 9/11,” plaintiff’s lawyer Carl Mayer said in a telephone interview. “This undermines that assertion.”

 

“The U.S. Department of Justice has stated that AT&T may neither confirm nor deny AT&T’s participation in the alleged NSA program because doing so would cause `exceptionally grave harm to national security’ and would violate both civil and criminal statutes,” AT&T spokesman Dave Pacholczyk said in an e-mail.

 

U.S. Department of Justice spokesman Charles Miller and NSA spokesman Don Weber declined to comment.

And see this and this.

In other words, the NSA’s trashing of the constitutional rights of American citizens had nothing to do with 9/11.

NSA Heard the 9/11 Hijackers’ Plans from Their Own Mouths … But Didn’t Stop Them

Indeed, the NSA was listening in on the 9/11 hijackers’ phone calls before 9/11, but didn’t do a whole lot to stop them:

  • The National Security Agency and the FBI were each independently listening in on the phone calls between the supposed mastermind of the attacks and the lead hijacker. Indeed, the FBI built its own antenna in Madagascar specifically to listen in on the  mastermind’s phone calls
  • According to various sources, on the day before 9/11, the mastermind told the lead hijacker “tomorrow is zero hour” and gave final approval for the attacks. The NSA intercepted the message that day and the FBI was likely also monitoring the mastermind’s phone calls
  • According to the Sunday Herald, two days before 9/11, Bin Laden called his stepmother and told her “In two days, you’re going to hear big news and you’re not going to hear from me for a while.” U.S. officials later told CNN that “in recent years they’ve been able to monitor some of Bin Laden’s telephone communications with his [step]mother. Bin Laden at the time was using a satellite telephone, and the signals were intercepted and sometimes recorded.” Indeed, before 9/11, to impress important visitors, NSA analysts would occasionally play audio tapes of bin Laden talking to his stepmother.
  • And according to CBS News, at 9:53 a.m on 9/11, just 15 minutes after the hijacked plane had hit the Pentagon, “the National Security Agency, which monitors communications worldwide, intercepted a phone call from one of Osama bin Laden’s operatives in Afghanistan to a phone number in the former
    Soviet Republic of Georgia”, and secretary of Defense Rumsfeld learned about the intercepted phone call in real-time (if the NSA monitored and transcribed phone calls in real-time on 9/11, that implies that it probably did so in the months leading up to 9/11 as well)

As we reported in 2008, the NSA even monitored the hijackers within the United States:

We’ve previously pointed out that the U.S. government heard the 9/11 plans from the hijackers’ own mouth. Most of what we wrote about involved the NSA and other intelligence services tapping top Al Qaeda operatives’ phone calls outside the U.S.

 

However, as leading NSA expert James Bamford - the Washington  Investigative Producer for ABC’s World News Tonight with Peter Jennings for almost a decade, winner of a number of journalism awards for coverage national security issues, whose articles have appeared in dozens of publications, including cover stories for the New York Times Magazine, Washington Post Magazine, and the Los Angeles Times Magazine, and the only author to write any books (he wrote 3) on the NSA – reports, the NSA was also tapping the hijackers’ phone calls inside the U.S.

 

Specifically, hijackers Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi lived in San Diego, California, for 2 years before 9/11. Numerous phone calls between al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi in San Diego and a high-level Al Qaeda operations base in Yemen were made in those 2 years.

 

The NSA had been tapping and eavesdropping on all calls made from that Yemen phone for years. So NSA recorded all of these phone calls.

 

Indeed, the CIA knew as far back as 1999 that al-Mihdhar was coming to the U.S. Specifically, in 1999, CIA operatives tailing al-Mihdha in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, obtained a copy of his passport. It contained visas for both Malaysia and the U.S., so they knew it was likely he would go from Kuala Lumpur to America.

ABC News reported in 2002:

Shortly before Sept. 11, NSA intercepts detected multiple phone calls from Abu Zubaida, bin Laden’s chief of  operations, to the United States. The intercepts were never passed on.

And Raw Story wrote in 2008:

Author James Bamford looked into the performance of the NSA … and found that it had been closely monitoring the 9/11 hijackers as they moved freely around the United States and communicated with Osama bin Laden’s operations center in Yemen. The NSA had even tapped bin Laden’s satellite phone, starting in 1996.

 

“The NSA never alerted any other agency that the terrorists were in the United States and moving across the country towards Washington,”  Bamford told PBS.

 

PBS also found that “the 9/11 Commission never looked closely into NSA’s role in the broad intelligence breakdown behind the World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks. If they had, they would have understood the full extent to which the agency had major pieces of the puzzle but never put them together or disclosed their entire body of knowledge to the CIA and the FBI.”

 

In a review of Bamford’s book, former senator and 9/11 Commission member Bob Kerrey wrote, “As the 9/11 Commission later established, U.S. intelligence officials knew that al-Qaeda had held a  planning meeting in Malaysia, found out the names of two recruits who had been present — Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi — and suspected that one and maybe both of them had flown to Los Angeles. Bamford reveals that the NSA had been eavesdropping for months on their calls to Yemen, yet the agency ‘never made the effort’ to trace where the calls originated. ‘At any time, had the FBI been notified, they could have found Hazmi in a matter of seconds.’”

 

Former CIA analyst Michael Scheuer told PBS, “None of this information that we’re speaking about this evening’s in the 9/11 Commission report. They simply ignored all of it.”

Spying Unrelated to Keeping Us Safe

As we’ve previously documented, the spying isn’t being done to keep us safe … but to crush dissent

and to help the too big to fail businesses compete against smaller businesses (and here).

Indeed, the NSA monitoring efforts will not focus on spying on potential terrorists – or even criminal activity – but in recording every phone call, email, internet search or other communication in the country.

Not Just the NSA: Other Agencies and Shady Foreign Groups Spying on Americans As Well

It’s not just the NSA.

As Nat Hentoff writes:

Thirty years after Church’s principled stand, the Washington Post reported that the NSA had already been  enlisting other intelligence
agencies
to assist its surveillance of “people inside the country suspected of having terrorist connections” (“Bush Authorized Domestic Spying,” Dan Eggen, Dec. 16, 2005).

On what basis? That’s classified.

And Bamford reports that shady companies with ties to Israel are wiretapping Americans for the NSA:

One of the [National Security] agency’s biggest secrets is just how careless it is with that ocean of very private and very personal communications, much of it to and from Americans. Increasingly, obscure and questionable contractors — not government employees — install the taps, run the agency’s eavesdropping infrastructure, and do the listening and analysis.

 

And with some of the key companies building the U.S.’s surveillance infrastructure for the digital age employing unstable employees, crooked executives, and having troubling ties to foreign intelligence services, it’s not clear that Americans should trust the secretive agency ….

 

***

 

Secretive contractors with questionable histories and little oversight were also used to do the actual bugging of the entire U.S. telecommunications network.

According to a former Verizon employee briefed on the program, Verint, owned by Comverse Technology, taps the communication lines at Verizon, which I first reported in my book The Shadow Factory in 2008. Verint did not return a call seeking comment, while Verizon said it does not comment on such matters.

At AT&T the wiretapping rooms are powered by software and hardware from Narus, now owned by Boeing, a discovery made by AT&T whistleblower Mark Klein in 2004. Narus did not return a call seeking comment.

What is especially troubling is that both companies have had extensive ties to Israel, as well as links to that country’s intelligence service, a country with a long and aggressive history of spying on the U.S.

In fact, according to Binney, the advanced analytical and data mining software the NSA had developed for both its worldwide and international eavesdropping operations was secretly passed to Israel by a mid-level employee, apparently with close connections to the country. The employee, a technical director in the Operations Directorate, “who was a very strong supporter of Israel,” said Binney, “gave, unbeknownst to us, he gave the software that we had, doing these fast rates, to the Israelis.”

Because of his position, it was something Binney should have been alerted to, but wasn’t.

 

“In addition to being the technical director,” he said, “I was the chair of the TAP, it’s the Technical Advisory Panel, the foreign relations council. We’re supposed to know what all these foreign countries, technically what they’re doing…. They didn’t do this that way, it was under the table.” After discovering the secret transfer of the technology, Binney argued that the agency simply pass it to them officially, and in that way get something in return, such as access to communications terminals. “So we gave it to them for switches,” he said.

“For access.”

But Binney now suspects that Israeli intelligence in turn passed the technology on to Israeli companies who operate in countries around the world, including the U.S. In return, the companies could act as extensions of Israeli intelligence and pass critical military, economic and diplomatic information back to them. “And then five years later, four or five years later, you see a Narus device,” he said. “I think there’s a connection there, we don’t know for sure.”

Narus was formed in Israel in November 1997 by six Israelis with much of its money coming from Walden Israel, an Israeli venture capital company. Its founder and
former chairman, Ori Cohen, once told Israel’s Fortune Magazine that his partners have done technology work for Israeli intelligence. And among the five founders was Stanislav Khirman, a husky, bearded Russian who had previously worked for Elta Systems, Inc. A division of Israel Aerospace Industries, Ltd., Elta specializes in developing advanced eavesdropping systems for Israeli defense and intelligence organizations. At Narus, Khirman became the chief technology officer.

A few years ago, Narus boasted that it is “known for its ability to capture and collect data from the largest networks around the world.”

The company says its equipment is capable of “providing unparalleled monitoring and intercept capabilities to service providers and government organizations around the world” and that “Anything that comes through [an Internet protocol network], we can  record. We can reconstruct all of their e-mails, along with attachments, see what Web pages they clicked on, we can reconstruct their [Voice over Internet Protocol] calls.”

Like Narus, Verint was founded by in Israel by Israelis, including Jacob “Kobi” Alexander, a former Israeli intelligence officer. Some 800 employees work for Verint, including 350 who are based in Israel, primarily working in research and development and operations, according to the Jerusalem Post. Among its products is STAR-GATE, which according to the company’s sales literature, lets “service providers … access communications on virtually any type of network, retain  communication data for as long as required, and query and deliver content and data …” and was  “[d]esigned to manage vast numbers of targets, concurrent sessions, call data records, and communications.”

In a rare and candid admission to Forbes, Retired Brig. Gen. Hanan Gefen, a former commander of the highly secret Unit 8200, Israel’s NSA, noted his former organization’s influence on Comverse, which owns Verint, as well as other Israeli companies that dominate the U.S. eavesdropping and surveillance market. “Take NICE, Comverse and Check Point for example, three of the largest high-tech companies, which were all directly influenced by 8200 technology,” said Gefen. “Check Point was founded by Unit alumni.  Comverse’s main product, the Logger, is based on the Unit’s technology.”

 

According to a former chief of Unit 8200, both the veterans of the group and much of the high-tech intelligence equipment they developed are now employed in high-tech firms around the world. “Cautious estimates indicate that in the past few years,” he told a reporter for the Israeli newspaper Ha’artez  in 2000, “Unit 8200 veterans have set up some 30 to 40 high-tech companies, including 5 to 10 that were floated on Wall Street.” Referred to only as “Brigadier General B,” he added, “This correlation between serving in the intelligence Unit 8200 and starting successful high-tech companies is not coincidental: Many of the technologies in use around the world and developed in Israel were originally military technologies and were developed and improved by Unit veterans.”

Equally troubling is the issue of corruption. Kobi Alexander, the founder and former chairman of Verint, is now a fugitive, wanted by the FBI on nearly three dozen charges of fraud, theft, lying, bribery, money laundering and other crimes. And two of his top associates at Comverse, Chief Financial Officer David Kreinberg and former General Counsel William F. Sorin, were also indicted in the scheme and later pleaded guilty, with both serving time in prison and paying millions of dollars in fines and penalties.

 

 

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Fri, 04/27/2012 - 18:10 | 2381277 Centurion9.41
Centurion9.41's picture

Want to thank all those who commented on my thoughts.  No better proof of intelligence levels than the very words of the ignorant.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 17:03 | 2368415 AurorusBorealus
AurorusBorealus's picture

At present, you can purchase a Boost Mobile cellular phone on the Sprint Network, a Cricket network cellular phone, or a Pageplus cellular phone on the Verizon network with cash and pay your bill each month in cash at a retail outlet.  No ID is used anywhere in the process.  Monitor all they want, they cannot know who is talking on my phone.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 16:42 | 2368333 scragbaker a ca...
scragbaker a cape cod clamdigger's picture

IT APPEARS THAT THIS ARTICLE HAS 'TOUCHED AN EXPOSED NERVE' AMONGST THE CITIZENRY !

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 07:31 | 2366228 mailll
mailll's picture

They can only track the electronic stuff.  This is why they will eventually make all buying and selling completely electronic.  No one will be able to buy or sell with paper money again, since paper money can't be tracked.  The best argument they will give us is that the drug dealers can't sell drugs anymore, since paper money will be worthless to them. Keep RFID in mind.  When you hear people talking about a paperless society,  they are talking about paper money also. All paper money will be electronic in nature only.  The conspiracy exists.  Research it.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 07:44 | 2366252 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

They also emit in electronic stuff. Which weights more than monitoring an ever vanishing flow in physical cash.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 05:57 | 2366125 silverdragon
silverdragon's picture

Live free or Die and buy some silver.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 03:02 | 2366067 cherry picker
cherry picker's picture

Let's test it out to see how good it is.  If a half a million of us send e-mails saying we are going to bl_w up something, they will be so busy chasing us around the rest of America will have a moment or two of privacy and peace/

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 03:52 | 2366087 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Certainly not. It will provide them with the mass of redundant information to narrow their analytic algorithms, allowing them to better distinguish between dummy and real talks.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 04:08 | 2366097 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

.

Certainly not. It will provide them with the mass of redundant information to narrow their analytic algorithms, allowing them to better distinguish between dummy and real talks.

No discernment needed for your talks. It is all simply promotion and advocacy of US citizenism. You are outstanding as if wearing your Uncle Sam masquerade.

Quite telling indeed...

 

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 06:36 | 2366145 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

That is the new flavour.

Promoter and advocate for US citizenism...

Propaganda and fantasy have to be renewed as they lose their effect.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 08:25 | 2366335 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Your masquerade of US citizenism is a beholdment of wonder.

 

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 22:46 | 2365875 Tom Green Swedish
Tom Green Swedish's picture

Disconnect yourself from the internet?  It worked for Bin Laden.  First rule of fight club. You do not talk  about fight club.

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 22:39 | 2365861 Money Squid
Money Squid's picture

Surprise - you never had any privacy. The "government" has been opening your mail, reading your telegrams, listening in to your phone calls, planting stories in the press from day one. You just believed the bullshit the US government was different. This time its different. But, people are always the same. Start a new country somewhere and the same shit will happen just the same way. Its the people. It always was.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 03:15 | 2366072 joe6px
joe6px's picture

May I humbly ask that we may treat the US as Europe?  In that we separate ourselves according to race, language, and ethnicity?  The Dakotas belong to the intrepid farmers that will till the soil, but first to the soix who we stole it from?  Perhaps we would be better off living under tribal council?  The forefathers knew that corruption would find its way into our government.  That is the reason for the second amendment.  Not that it was hoped for, but that as a last resort we the people could hit the reset button of our own accord, hopefully without bloodshed.  As said before by the liberty minded Spooner, maintenance of the constitution is not revolution.  It is the preservation of OUR document.  I may not agree with the way you live your life, but as long as you do not tax me or infringe my rights then I will let you live the way you and yours wish.  Don't push your will on me and I will not reciprocate.  The Constitution required higher thinking to prevail.  Those that wish to undermine intellect and reason to rule have, for the moment, the upper hand.  What are we to do?  Abdicate our given right to freedom for some fake form of security?  The government can no more protect us from true terrorism than it can protect us from auto accidents.  In truth, auto accidents will kill more Americans than terrorism and 'guns' combined.  If an educated populace cannot allow one another to live in peace then all is lost.  The original purpose of the States was to decentralize government.  To make oligarchy harder to attain.  To make local government easier to maintain.  If we the people are no longer able to manage ourselves then we are doomed to slavery by those who would enslave us.  My humble thoughts.  Please enlighten me if you can.

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 21:25 | 2365764 The Beam
The Beam's picture

I have been railing against things since the Patriot Act. I thought to myself, "If they are hating us for our freedoms, and we are giving up a lot of them with this act, DON'T THEY WIN?"

I have stayed with that line of thinking. We are supposed to have laws. But the laws were to protect from infringing on our rights. MAJOR LAWS and MAJOR ISSUES were designed to go into the Constitution with the idea of giving us more rights and freedoms.

Wake Up!

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 22:34 | 2365853 Esculent 69
Esculent 69's picture

Defund your gov't and stop filing a tax return and take your maximum deductions to get all of YOUR $. It is against the law to file a tax return because at the bottom of the  return it says under penalty of perjury that the info you give to be accurate. the FICA your employer "matches" you on your paycheck is paid for by you. you are taxed 100% on the percentage of that income. there is no IRS form that allows for this to show up as income and taxation so it does not reflect your true income and tax.  you can not be forced to incrimiate yourself due to the fifthe amendment. Hence, you are following the law when you do not file a tax return. It's not tax evasion.  You are complying with the law.  Tell all of your friends and cut this cancer out of our free society or what is left of it. God Bless. 

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 13:46 | 2367615 The Beam
The Beam's picture

Yeah, tell that when they forceably seize everything from you and then sell it.

I continue to rail and "fight the good fight", educate people and try to wake people up. Unfortunately we BARELY got enough people to wake up to SOPA and PIPA. What happened? The changed the name, guized it against something else, and the people went back to sleep. Thus we will get CISPA (which is worse then SOPA and PIPA).

My friend who served at the IRS, and is now a tax accountant, has heard every story in the book and the judges/courts continue you to side with the government.

Imagine if they eventually say "only popular speech is covered by the 1st Amendment".... and imagine if they actually enforced that. Now those are two extreme cases. But all decided by a court that can change their minds based on "new interpretations".

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 03:38 | 2366081 joe6px
joe6px's picture

If any regard was given to the constitution you may have had a defensible argument.  Velcomen to the USSA, such document is Verboten!!!  U will pay or the Statzi will exact a toll on you that you cannot survive.  Vellcommen Commrade!  Your executive branch is bought!  Your legislative branch is bought!  Your judicial branch is bought!  Welcome to the Universal Socialist States of America.  Revel in the magnificence of the freedom brought to you by the most merciful state!

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 04:00 | 2366092 joe6px
joe6px's picture

It occurred to me while reading my own post that the issuance of money and the physical riches money abides....that maybe we are all being screwed out of our time, effort, crops, yeilds, etc...  Not that I haven't thought of these things before.  Any beaurocrat can be given a slip of paper in trade for the corruption required to gain another's interest.  As long as a slip of paper, or even a disk of silver or gold, is enough to corrupt a leader's mind then we are all in terrible position.  There is a lot of talk about free markets, metal based currency, and liberty on this website....the truth is that none of those ideals will work if the populace is not convinced.  One way or the other.  I am not about one solution or another, just that the group must agree (the market) on the value of trade.  Why would I give you 50kilos of grain for 100kgs of gold if we are all starving?  I love and hold Au...but when I need to trade...well food trumps any form of metal.  Preparation is the word of the day. What is integrity?  What is leadership?  Who will lead?

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 20:26 | 2365665 engineertheeconomy
engineertheeconomy's picture

Could we all just cut the crap and tell it like it is?

They're spying on us so that they can pre-emt any possible attack on their weak point where they're vulnerable.

Their printing presses, their ability to dominate the counterfeiting bussiness.

Lets be honest, there is no debt drama about nations needing loans,

Why the hell would any Government borrow money if they can just print it?

What, are the Bankers going to shoot us if we do?

Let's get something straight. 

The Bankers ARE the Government.

And YES, if you do not obey and take out a loan, they will shoot you.

This entire ponzithon could end tomorrow if people started using Silver and Gold as money today.

 

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 12:42 | 2367307 forexskin
forexskin's picture

Lets be honest, there is no debt drama about nations needing loans,

debt=control

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 20:45 | 2365692 Marc_W
Marc_W's picture

Correct.  You're one of the few that understands this basic principle.  The United States is a fascist nation where corporate and state power are one in the same.

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 22:45 | 2365874 Money Squid
Money Squid's picture

Two tits up for an intelligent comment.

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 22:33 | 2365852 engineertheeconomy
engineertheeconomy's picture

Sometimes I think the entire world is one big military-banking-complex. The more I look at it, the more it just appears to be a rotating spherical prison labor death camp. Since they're slowly but surely killing off  honest genetics, those with purely criminal genetics will inherit what's left of the only planet in the known galaxy that supports life, now entirely radioactive and unihabitable. Good job gentlemen.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 06:05 | 2366128 Hot Shakedown
Hot Shakedown's picture

You are starting to connect the dots. Read David Icke. There is still time for individuals to allign their thoughts and litteraly use the power of 'prayer' to overcome evil. Check any definition of religion at the door- its simply another tool to divide and weaken. Lots of varying forces are in play. Think about the efforts that are currently applied on this earth to 'pit' man against man. Avoid sugar and flouride and 'think' positive thoughts.

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 20:17 | 2365648 Westcoastliberal
Westcoastliberal's picture

If you want the real story on 9/11 get a copy of Michael C. Ruppert's great book "Crossing the Rubicon" in which the former LAPD detective lays it all out, but I'll warn you, it's not pretty.

Along with that, if you want to dig a big deeper into the covert history of the U.S., get Russ Baker's fine book "Family of Secrets".

"Promis" software, the "Total Information Awareness" program, and "Able Danger" are all keys to the spying that's been going on against Americans for quite some time.

Anyone who says this is "conspiracy theory" is buying into the dis-information program of the various 3-letter agencies.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 00:02 | 2365962 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

Ruppert is a CIA tool.

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 20:06 | 2365634 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

Slipping away, it's all just slipping away....

 

I wonder how many delegates Ron Paul will get out of Texas and Pennsylvania....lots....well tomorrow is another day and one never knows.

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 20:03 | 2365629 Marc_W
Marc_W's picture

"Now, the NSA is building a $2 billion dollar facility in Utah which will use the world’s most powerful supercomputer to monitor virtually all phone calls, emails, internet usage, purchases and rentals, break all encryption, and then store everyone’s data permanently."

 

"George Washington",

 

You're wrong.  I'm sick and tired of reading all of these scare mongering articles talking about something bad just around the corner to get everyone all riled up.  Your take away from the wired.com article on the NSA's new data center is completely wrong.  You have the reading comprehension of a small child.

 

The NSA already does all of those things.  They already intercept everything and store it live for about 2 weeks before the noise gets backed up to tape.  There are data collection sites around the world capable of storing massive amounts of data.  The data center in Utah is just a bigger, more centralized version of what they've already been doing.  And the super computers aren't for interception, they're for cracking encryption.  This didn't start yesterday, and it didn't start with 9/11.

 

And your overall article was disjoined and random, jumping from one subject to the next.  You end with a comparison of the narrowly focused foreign spy operations against specific powerful Americans to the NSA's dragnet of all telecommunications.  And those foreigners can't send a SWAT team to your house to murder you.  The NSA is far more dangerous to Americans than a couple of foreign spies that focus their attention on the powerful and well connected.

 

Get your shit together before you write another one of these scare mongering articles.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 04:17 | 2366100 joe6px
joe6px's picture

Marc,

Given that your arguments are valid, how would you have GW respond to new information (to him)?  Should he shut up?  Should a patriot shut one's mouth?   Is it not up to the individual to make their own decisions?  Why is it you would want to silence another citizen's voice?  With every right comes an obligation.  GW exercised his right to voice an opinion backed by documentation.  You have attacked GW with an ad-hominem attack without the same documentation.  Please provide documentation to support your opinion.  If you do not like the way the information was provided then perhaps you should offer to streamline the data provided, or even invest your learned opinion in an executive summary.  I recognize your right to say what you will, how you will.  I also expect you, as a commentator on ZH, to add something useful to the discussion.  IMHO

 

Spelling edit

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 22:43 | 2365866 Money Squid
Money Squid's picture

Marc_W: You're wrong. I'm sick and tired of reading all of your negative comments about George Washington's posts. Get your shit together before you write another one of these stupid comments about GW's articles. Or, fucking write your own.

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 20:19 | 2365651 Westcoastliberal
Westcoastliberal's picture

You, sir, are obviously uninformed.  Educate yourself before dissing GW again, because if you're scared about what he says you're not digging deeply enough on your own.

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 20:37 | 2365685 Marc_W
Marc_W's picture

Reread what I wrote.  Ask you mommy to explain the big words or consult your dictionary.

 

Also, go fuck yourself.

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 22:45 | 2365872 engineertheeconomy
engineertheeconomy's picture

I see that the trolls like to give you downarrows also. They attack me like crazy. I'm amazed these trolls don't have higher I.Q.'s

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 20:01 | 2365627 nah
nah's picture

you think the world can produce apeasing masses that cant dicern wrong that would give rise to a tyrant that opposes their unherd will

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 19:44 | 2365596 Downtoolong
Downtoolong's picture

there would be no way to fight back

There is always a way to fight back. The trick is not to tell them what it is until the time comes. I can keep secrets too.

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 19:12 | 2365523 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Good work George, keep it up.

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 18:45 | 2365465 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

George the US did not invent spying on it's own citizens nor is it new or novel.

 

 

 

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 00:34 | 2365992 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

So it has tradition? Regardless of the authors opinions in any direction thats a sorry ass excuse- look at the nations where that was common practice and even they never had the sort of capability our wannabe Stasi types now have. 

Too much of both right and left in this country have devolved into flat out blind statism so they can be protected from fear- the left from fear of having to actually rely on themselves and the right from the never ending stream of boogeymen.

We've become a nation of lunatics overly dependent on prescriptions to maintain a hold on sanity, the left gets all the bipolars and the right gets all the paranoids.

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 20:04 | 2365630 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

Many loathsome and unacceptable things are neither new nor novel. 

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 18:32 | 2365442 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

I am a little confused. There has been much said that the destruction of the towers was not caused by aeroplanes but by explosives put in place. Especially so in the case of the third building which was not struck.

We are also told that they were listening to Osama's conversations.

So what's the story? Was the destruction of the twin towers cauased by Osama?

If they could hear his calls could they not source them?

Or was the plane strike by Osama and the explosives by someone else to ensure the buildings fell uniformly and quickly?

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 06:34 | 2366144 Hot Shakedown
Hot Shakedown's picture

In my view, the 'explosives' theory is what the Poweres that Be would like all the skeptics to think. I started going down the rabbit hole after Princess Di's death. In the many years of looking at differing views on how the towers came down, I have gone from the "nano-thermite" explosive theory to my current Direct Energy Wave (DEW) theory. The explosive theory makes sense, but the character/nature of the "fallout" does not add up . In brief, everything turned to dust. The DEW theory involves some understanding of how the Weather is harnessed as well as an understandind of what goes on in places like Sandia Labs in NM. Hurricane Erin was a massive cat 4 just off NYC on 9/11. The DEW theory is perhaps the only theory that is never heard of and it appears that the PTB is going to great lengths to steer people into the "explosives" theory- which is the 'acceptable' disinformation plan du jor. Google the DEW theory while you can.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 00:26 | 2365982 The Navigator
The Navigator's picture

@ Peter Pan

Here are a couple of vids that may sheed some light

Susan Lindauer - CIA asset talks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G43zl4fzDQg

Architects and Engineers for 911 truth - watch either the 30 or 60 minute video

http://www.ae911truth.org/en/evidence.html#Videos_by_AE911Truth

And if you like to read, "Day of Deceit" details how US Intel had broken Japanese radio codes and had very good intel but didn't like sharing with Admiral Kimmel, top Navy guy in Pearl.

 

 

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 18:52 | 2365473 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

I am a little confused too. If they were listening to Osama  why did Clinton send missles into the dirt in the Bekaa Valley instead of waiting for Osama to show up?

There has been much said that the US was behind the 9/11 attacks.

Not only could the same goal have been achieved without killing thousands of people but also without the significantly increased exposure.

Likewise the war in Iraq hinged on finding WMDS so if they killed thousands of their own citizens why didn't they plant WMDs in Iraq?

Or should I just take meds, get some job where brainpower is not required and pretend I know my ass from a hole in the wall?

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 19:10 | 2365518 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

I finally got it!

Wasn't really radical islam behind the perpetually escalating attacks against western interests it was really the westerners. The nightclubs, the embassies, the tubes, the hijackings, the barracks, the USS Cole, the first WTC bombing(save the stupid shit from the triple agent claiming the FBI was behind it for some other moron and not me) and too many others to count.

As if the western world actually needed to kill thousands of it's own people as an excuse to respond.

Oh I guess I still don't get it.

I'll have to work on if only Israel didn't exist somehow those who brought the world backwardation despite finding untold riches in oil, treat their women as sub humans, stone/flogs gays & adulterers, torture/exterminate dissidents wouldn't be nearly as violent.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 04:46 | 2366102 joe6px
joe6px's picture

You can see the trees, but you need to recognize you are in a forest.  Don't tell us how the water feels while you are drowning.  You are just getting a sense of the overall dread.  We are all at the 'mercy' of the ruling class.  You speak of rights..for whom?. Cattle.  You and I are only slightly above the usefulness of cattle.  Welcome to the involuntary intellectual infantry.

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 17:29 | 2365340 navy62802
navy62802's picture

James Bamford is the Tom Clancy of the intelligence world. He's done TONS of research specifically on NSA. I read both The Puzzle Palace and Body of Secrets in the mid 2000s ... very insightful into NSA's actions and vast expansion. Haven't had a chance to read any of his more recent books.

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 17:14 | 2365318 proLiberty
proLiberty's picture

As a person accustomed to dealing with large amounts of data, the NSA may be able to capture and store a lot, but wading through all of it is like trying to find minnows in the flow of the Amazon River.  Futher, people can make their job much harder.

For exmple, how about an app that runs fake, randdom Google searchers continually?   Now, certainly Google is going to react and already attempts to filter automated searches.  But two can play that game.  What good is a catalog of all my searches if the list is full of crap?   And what good is a datacapture of my outgoing strem if it runs day and night with noise, and many others who find this surveillence to be a predicate to treason do likewise?

Thirdly, people can move their email outside of US jurisdication and use a VPN.   I do part of these things already.

 

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 23:36 | 2365947 essence
essence's picture

@ProLiberty

The US has long since made arrangements with other countries to place "tapping" stations on their backbones.

As for a VPN ...that's why the NSA is building an adjunct facility in Tennessee (your tax dollars at work against you) for the express purpose to BREAK encryption.

And as regards to being overwhelemed, my understanding is that they will store EVERYTHING such that should you ever become a "person of interest" they can bring up your data and data-mine it so as to construct a profile of you and your PAST activities,

 

And to think, the NSA wasn't even created by Congress, instead it was an executive act by Pres Truman that created it. My what a Frankinstein it has become.

 

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 06:59 | 2366178 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

And as regards to being overwhelemed, my understanding is that they will store EVERYTHING such that should you ever become a "person of interest" they can bring up your data and data-mine it so as to construct a profile of you and your PAST activities

_________________________________________________

That is it. The recording is what matters.

People in the past thought of things like Argus Panoptes because they were constrainted by the idea of immediatety, catching people red handed.

It is not about preventing crime but about archiving anything possible to restrain future moves.

)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

The idea of flooding the data collection listeners is preposterous:it starts an attrition war with US citizens who leech their resources from you. They will always have more resources to counter act your jamming attempts.

The white noise story, that is diluting the meaningful bit of information inside an ocean of irrelevant information, same vein.

US citizenism has been since its inception a very strong agent in spreading uniformity and conformity.

The attempt of hiding among the herd of white noise makers is hapless. It is much easier to spot an oddity among a flow of similarity. Like putting a black spot on a white canvas.

What is more difficult to spot is when various patterns leads to the same result.

As soon as one dismisses the fantasies broadcast by US citizens, what is going to be the future provided by US citizenism?

As privacy no longer exists, behaviours will be condoned, allowed and condemned by the groups. It will all being part of the right group.

The member of the right group will be allowed in certain types of behaviour while others, members of the wrong group, will be condemned for the same behaviours.

It is different from what will have happened up to that point as the behaviours will be known and recorded publically.

The requirement for secrecy to perform certain acts will be abolished. You will perform your act openly with the support or the condemnation of US citizens.

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