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On war in Europe

Daily Collateral's picture


"Even on the eve of war, however, there was still considerable optimism that the peace would hold. Europe had experienced several decades without a major war, and in the meantime, industrialization and relatively free international trade had produced rapidly rising standards of living. A war that would destroy the fruits of this progress seemed irrational.


Many people believed, moreover, that the rising international solidarity of the labor movement would undermine support for a war entered into by imperialistic capitalist powers. Although financial markets were retrenching, they gave no sign that a cataclysm lay ahead. The optimists were wrong."

-- Gary M. Walton and Hugh Rockoff, History of the American Economy, Eleventh Edition, p. 380


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Tue, 04/24/2012 - 12:20 | 2370245 jimmyjames
jimmyjames's picture

Is war predictable?





Wed, 04/25/2012 - 12:45 | 2373842 Element
Element's picture

As we saw in late 2010 into 2011 that inflate/print = commodities and food staples up 50 to 100%

Add any other exogenous shock, drought, political corruption, deprivation of young aspirants, you then get Tunisia, Libya, Yemen, Bahrain, Egypt, Syria,  ... many more to come, as the CBs have only just begun to print.

Greenspan and Bernanke's love-child.

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 11:58 | 2370155 Marc_W
Marc_W's picture

War is coming, but it won't be how you think.  You're all stuck in this History channel version of geopolitics, totally ignorant as the real state of affairs.


The current fascist aggressor nation in the world is the United States.  And any coming major wars are sure to be started by us, even if some scared military officer on the other side takes the first shot after his country has been bullied, terrorized, and driven into poverty by Western sanctions.  History will record that the U.S. was the good guy, but history is written by the victor.


European men don't even have the balls to fight back against a few Muslims in their countries, let alone fight a war.  Sweden is getting rid of digital currency because the Muslims in Sweden rob white native Swedes all the time because they know they will get away with it.  They walk up to a white Swedish guy and say, "give me your money", and they give them their money, and phone, and whatever else they want.


That is the face of European Masculinity in post-feminist Euro-Socialist culture.  A bunch of effeminate weaklings.  And the one guy that fought back in Norway, they call him a terrorist.

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 12:14 | 2370207 AurorusBorealus
AurorusBorealus's picture

Socialist Europe has for some time now lived in a world of lollipops and rainbows under the American military umbrella.  2 generations of Europeans have bought into a "we-are-the-world" and don't have national interest anymore nonsense.  They will be shocked to discover that nation-states and East-West are defining distinctions.  They will be even more shocked to discover this than Americans will be shocked to discover that their tiny military is not the dominate force it is portrayed to be on TV. 

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 09:55 | 2369657 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

"Seriously, does ZH hope to continue to grow as a true serious voice on the affaoirs of markets and real world geo-politics, or is it swirling down the drain belching a cacophony like that which came frantihero anarchy of the French Revolution?"

I refuse to be distracted by talk of "war over here" or "war over there".

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 10:27 | 2369766 SubjectivObject
SubjectivObject's picture

In the realm of useful background noise, it's a good que to provoke related commentary.

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 09:03 | 2369489 kindape
kindape's picture

not sure where to post this question, but given this post is a quote i will try here.

a few months ago someone on ZH posted a quote by a british billionaire (or 1920s equivalent) who was in government and came over to US to lecture. he blasted our money creation mechanism (i believe this was in 1930 or 1932 or thereabouts) and it was a crystal clear explanation of how money creators were in control of everything - the important point was that he was wealthy himself as well as a politician in Britain.


Any ideas?


Tue, 04/24/2012 - 14:55 | 2370939 matrix2012
matrix2012's picture

Or this?

The modern banking system manufactures money out of nothing. The process is perhaps the most astounding piece of sleight of hand that was ever invented. Banking was conceived in inequity and born in sin…Bankers own the earth. Take it away from them but leave them the power to create money, and, with a flick of a pen, they will create enough money to buy it back again…Take this great power away from them and all great fortunes like mine will disappear, for then this would be a better and happier world to live in…But, if you want to continue to be the slaves of bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, then let bankers continue to create money and control credit.” — Sir Josiah Stamp (1880-1941)


President of the Bank of England in the 1920s, the second richest man in Britain, speaking at the Commencement Address of the University of Texas in 1927.



Tue, 04/24/2012 - 12:35 | 2370307 Illegitimi-Non-...
Illegitimi-Non-Carborundum's picture

Was it this?

Banking was conceived in iniquity and was born in sin.
The Bankers own the earth. Take it away from them,
but leave them the power to create deposits,
and with the flick of the pen they will
create enough deposits to buy it back again.
However, take it away from them, and
all the great fortunes like mine
will disappear and they ought to disappear, for
this would be a happier and better world to live in.
But, if you wish to remain the slaves of Bankers
and pay the cost of your own slavery,
let them continue to create deposits."



--Sir Josiah Stamp

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 08:44 | 2369415 Red Heeler
Red Heeler's picture

'"As we lay there watching the bright stars," one veteran lieutenant was to say, "many a soldier asked himself the question: What is this all about? Why is it that 200,000 men of one blood and one tongue, believing as one man in the fatherhood of God and the universal brotherhood of man, should in the nineteenth century of the Christian era be thus armed and with all the improved appliances of modern warfare and seeking one another's lives? We could settle our differences by compromising, and all be at home in ten days."' - The Civil War, A Narrative: Volume III, Red River to Appomattox, by Shelby Foote 

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 10:13 | 2369714 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

Abraham Lincoln was the first modern Republican; the Confederate withdrawal from the control of Washington was a "crisis to be exploited"; the strategic war aim was undisputed and absolute control over a Continent; from Washington, DC. For those of you who are completely innocent of knowledge, "Slaves" had nothing to do with it. Lincoln's plan for the Black Subnormals was to ship them back to Africa; this is simply a fact. It's available inthe form of written notes from cabinet level meetings where they discussed the logistic details of the program. The Gettysburg address was a political manuveur designed to keep Great Britain from re-inforcing the Confederacy because the British Citizenry wouldn't countenance their government facilitating a slave owning state. The last thing any rational person had on their mind was the ridiculous idea they'd be allowed to vote. As you can see, we've come a long ways since then.

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 13:54 | 2370621 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Slavery was central to the civil war.

Emancipation was not.

But slavery was central in materializing the shift in power on the federal scale from the south that enjoyed so far the boons of federal power to the north that felt more and more constrained by the federal power in the hands of southerners.

Freedom has nothing to do with US citizenism in general.

Coercion has a lot to do.

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 14:50 | 2370900 paintman
paintman's picture

"The Rise and Fall of the Confederate Government" by Jefferson Davis is an eye-opening account of the political machinations before and during the Civil War.  In this, as always, the winner wrote the history books and they spun their deeds for their own benefit.

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 14:16 | 2370637 akak
akak's picture

Freedom has nothing to do with US citizenism in general.

Coercion has a lot to do.


Truth has nothing to do with Chinese citizenism in general.

Hypocrisy, nose-picking and blobbing-up has a lot to do.

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 14:41 | 2370850 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

...and reversal of history. Chinese citizenism is big on reversal of history. They call it The Great Leap Backward.


Tue, 04/24/2012 - 14:55 | 2370885 akak
akak's picture

The Great Leap Forward into Chinese Citizenism Offuscation and Parangonistic Canibilism is merely part of the Long March into Running Dog Make-Me-Laugh Self-Denialistic Blobbing-Upism.

Let a thousand roadside piles of nightsoil bloom!

Or, as the Great Stoolman Mousy Tongue is famous for saying:
"All powerful roadside shit flows from the bunghole of a Chinese citizen."

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 08:38 | 2369408 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

What a fucking worthless "article".

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 08:38 | 2369407 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Globalist turkeys for Thanksgiving this year.

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 08:31 | 2369392 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Yep. People thought WW1 was impossible. A best selling book was published in 1913 saying war was impossible because the countries were too link economically... most people agreed...

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 06:57 | 2369272 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

The words of Voltaire are a reminder not of the hopes of ordinary people but of those who pull the strings behind the scenes regardless of the hopes of those ordinary people:

"It is forbidden to kill: therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbes and to the sound of trumpets."

War therefore requires only a few well choreographed events to begin and from there it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 07:49 | 2369305 Element
Element's picture

I don't know about a war in Europe ... sure, it will come,  ... but people better open their eyes right now to the stupidity that's overtaking the middle-east - TODAY

When you get people, neighbours, at each others necks over a God, and a version of belief in that God ...

Now mix in modern weapons, and a true proxy-war between great powers for strategic control and leverage ...

Guys, this really will kick-off into WWIII, right before our eyes, ... or rather it's WWIII already deepening because it's been going awhile now ... like a small fire in a house, that's getting bigger, and bigger ... becasue no one was all that bothered by it for so long, that it didn't seem all that much of a threat.  Well, that has changed, it has tranformed into something much more dangerous.


I guarantee you that on the path this is on, the oil to foreign export markets is going to get cut off.  When I don't know, but it is going to largely stop flowing at some point. 

And when this progressively (frog in water) happens, it's going to lead to a sudden an all-in epic series of protracted bloodbaths that will make WWII look like a reasonably modest affair.

A verbal example of the poisonous decay and thirst for vengence that's settling into the minds of people, of former neighbours; excerpt of a recent utube discussion between opposing fractious 'Muslim' views (and note that it's also about tribal ethnicity):




Try to come to Egypt and will kill u like fucking dogs. Inshallah my Muslims Brothers will in Syria, and clean Syria from ur kind. U Shia r not Muslims, we are muslims. U fucking cocksucker and slave to Iran. The Arab Spring will be the end of all Rafidi Government in the Middle East, including Iran. Inshallah Muslims will take Syria, and Iraq. Inshallah Muslims will invade Iran and make it a Muslim country? once again.


 thecoolguyify in reply to IRGCPasdaran (Show the comment) 1 day ago 2

 Sunni(la) are bastard Hindus

 We are the Ummah

 Inshallah we will invade Bahrain and bomb Manama,then we will burn Riyadh to the ground

 We have already emptied Baghdad of you people,now Beirut and Damascus remain

 Ha but you remember the revenge for 1991,in Iraq from 2003-2008 by Mahdi Army?

 Douchebag Sunni(la) only remembers what shit he did? but not how his dirty sand nigger ass was whipped

 One day we retake Egypt and make Al-Azhar Shia mosque again

 IRGCPasdaran in reply to thecoolguyify (Show the comment) 1 day ago



 U shia are the worst people on earth. U have created so many problems in the Middle East. We will clean the area from? those dirty shias. We will clean Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Saudia Arabia.

 U dirty assholes will be killed like in 1991 in the Shia uprising against Saddam Hussein.

 U REMEBER 1991 LOL. Shia don't come to Egypt, we don't want u here.

 I am a Muslim.

 thecoolguyify in reply to IRGCPasdaran (Show the comment) 1 day ago

 I am Twelver Shia

 I love you man, my Alawite friend


 IRGCPasdaran in reply to SONY9912 (Show the comment) 1 day ago

 Don't storm at him,what did he say wrong?

 You clown , if you have such a problem why don't you go to your filthy Sunni temple and rant against Shia & Alawi


 You scum will be killed like? in 1982 Hama Sunni terrorist

 I am Shia

 IRGCPasdaran in reply to thecoolguyify (Show the comment) 1 day ago


 how dare u to talk about Prophet Muhammad (Pbuh) companions like? this. Inshallah, the Sunni Muslims will win, and ur sect will go back to live in the Zoo. God bless the true Syrian people and what they have face against the Tyrant Bashar. Just wait motherfucker, u will all regret it. RESPECT TO THE TRUE SYRIAN MUSLIMS.


 thecoolguyify in reply to SONY9912 (Show the comment) 3 days ago




The video linked below was done for the sake of God, and/or the State:

(WARNING: these are very terrible scenes of fresh scattered body parts that have been blown and torn apart ... )




If these people continue to amp this up, and are supported from external arms, funding and motivation sources, then this is just the beginning of the unhinging of the rest of the civilised world.

I feel humanity is in very deep trouble here, if this madness continues to escalate, and it seems to me, the US and Israel are both fully committed to escalation at all costs, and clearly the polarised factions of Islam are itching to tear each other apart.

I sincerely hope they don't, but if oil production does decline during this period, and they can not sustain those exponentially-growing and overwhelmingly young populations ... there is going to be a war like Earth has never seen.

This is not in some far-off nebulous future ... and we are all going to be getting heavily involved.

When the west left Vietnam, not much happened, Pol Pot came to power, Vietnam invaded Cambodia, the Chinese also had a border war with the Vietnamese ... but then it all settled down within about 10 years ... and the "Asian Tiger economies" emerged from all around these terrible war zones, and co-existence is the state of play there now.  

But this time the West/NATO is not going to be able to just pack-up and walk away from it, and watch it messily defuse.

This and economic decay and corruption will unzipper all of civilisation. 

You don't have to read any arcane prophecies to see this coming.

And we can also see the actions, preparation/planning, and policies, of all developed countries, are falling into line with such and expectation.

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 14:41 | 2370844 matrix2012
matrix2012's picture

Element, ever heard the notion of the TPTB's agenda to depopulate the world to about 100 millions?  Perhaps what did you mention earlier is part of the their grand plan to achieve such target.

If GMO food, chemtrails, human-made diseases and other less obvious approaches won't reduce population effectively in short time, then colossal wars may be the only viable solutions for the oligarchy cartel families!

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 10:28 | 2369775 LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

Islam means "Peace"

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 08:48 | 2369434 Lost My Shorts
Lost My Shorts's picture

Ya funny how these "Arabs" trash talk in English.  Bet it was written by bored interns at the Heritage Foundation.

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 11:47 | 2370112 Chaos_Theory
Chaos_Theory's picture

English is the common language on the Internet.  Everyone knows the f-bomb! 

Plus, Arabs speak Arabic (with many dialects...so a Saudi can have difficult in Mosul), while Persians speak Farsi and/or Dari. The Arabic the Shia know tends to be of the Old Arabic variant needed to read the Quran, not the modern Arabic used to converse. 

But, I suppose it's more fun to believe the world is all buttercups and rainbows, if only the CIA would but out. 

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 10:05 | 2369690 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

So, you're completely unaware of what's going on in the world around you? What he's presenting to you is a slice of reality. What did you think they meant when they told you on the evening news that Sunni Moslems had blown up a Mosque full of worshipping Shia Moslems? Hmm? Or did you just forget; after all I'm sure you have a busy schedule of "texting" to take care of.

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 09:13 | 2369477 Element
Element's picture

That could explain some of it.

But there's the ugly observation that partisan groups are increasingly going after each other, with military weapons, as sectarian polarisation intensifies with each wave of ... whatever you want to call it ... it looks bonkers. 

I only understand the mentality of it because I was briefly a Christian fundamentalist when a teen, and all fundamentalists are mentally following the very same model/framework and psychological commitment, to a conditioned-addiction to a 'view' of the world -- no matter what the actual beliefs.

I see a region where even most of the 'soft-liners' are also operating within that Fundamentalist mental model's strictures.

It's real animosity.


(ANZAC Day here tommorow, i.e. more nationalist silliness all day long -- it even has it's own public HOLYday ... bonkers)

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 10:02 | 2369680 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

You're a kind of ray of rationality in this mess called an inter-net blog.

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 08:40 | 2369413 rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

I wonder if a few nukes hit the US if it would be ok to stop paying your credit cards and mortgage? Or will lawyers dressed in silver suits come knocking? Ten bux says your phone will still be ringing with citi credit cards on the other end lmfao!!!  It's gona get very, very interesting.  I don't regret one bit leaving the workforce 4 years ago and having the time of my life.  I hope it doesn't happen but i've been expecting this shit to boil over and decided to have a good time while I can.  Don't think ill make it very long on 50 cans of spam, radiation and trying to fight off property invaders. We'll all be fucked.

Just amazing at how fucking stupid our leaders are, and how stupid we are for letting them take over!  I honestly believe some of them have the attitude "if I can't have it all, no one can!"  Bunch of fucking thieves are going to get us all killed, they'll be in a bunker with 10 dumptrucks full of gold and will have think they've finally won. No kidding, I don't doubt it for a minute.

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 13:58 | 2370635 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Ah but maybe all those fallout shelters built out of US citizen paranoia would no longer be misallocated resources, capital or something.

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 08:44 | 2369425 NewWorldOrange
NewWorldOrange's picture

If a few nukes ever hit the U.S., good luck finding ANYONE who will accept a credit card for anything. Good luck even finding anyone to accept CASH. Canned goods and ammo might work though.

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 09:54 | 2369665 crawldaddy
crawldaddy's picture

wrong, a nuke would do no more damage to a city than Katrina did, and yet the rest of the country went on just like nothing happened.

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 10:20 | 2369732 maximin thrax
maximin thrax's picture

Except those parts of the country, hundreds of miles away, that went without gasoline for up to a week. How soon we forget.

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 10:20 | 2369729 grgy
grgy's picture

Yes, but the rest of the country knew where the hurricanes were. They sure won't know where the second, third or fourth nukes are going to land.  Therefore, panic spreads across the nation.  I remember the nuclear war fear of the 50's.  I think we have much more to fear today.

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 10:26 | 2369760 NewWorldOrange
NewWorldOrange's picture

EXACTLY. I can hardly believe the idiocy in that "Katrina" response. Even if no MORE nukes hit, it wouldn't prevent the full militarization of EVERYTHING almost overnight. You couldn't go to the convenience store without being stopped, questionned, seached. Look what the TSA et al is doing NOW. But if two nukes hit the U.S.? Yeah, life would go on "just like after Katrina." What a fool.

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 10:23 | 2369744 maximin thrax
maximin thrax's picture

Just look at the morning of September 11, when so many rumors of additional aircraft attacks and other kinds of pending attacks swirled through the news media. Seems they did more to instill panic than to calm.

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 10:31 | 2369785 NewWorldOrange
NewWorldOrange's picture

A few letters laced with Anthrax and people were emptying the store shelves of DUCT TAPE. There would be a mad rush out of the cities if nukes hit U.S. cities. Not everyone maybe, but enough that that alone would cause mayhem outside the ciites. Plenty of well armed country folk would be very determined to protect their property and communities from squatters and looters and desperate people trying to find safety and food etc. The consequences of a "few nukes" hitting the U.S. would make post-Katrina look like a fender bender.

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 08:54 | 2369457 rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

I have some canned goods. And a ton of ammo.  I have 10k rounds of 22.  And all the usual other stuff. 

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 09:01 | 2369481 NewWorldOrange
NewWorldOrange's picture

You'll soon be a rich dead man, like most of zh readers including myself ;)


Tue, 04/24/2012 - 09:02 | 2369483 rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

Actually I pretty much agree with that.

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 08:30 | 2369389 Crumbles
Crumbles's picture

@element. Seems like you read The Long Emergency ... Loss of oil / transportation will plunge this country and world back to the early 1800's era, before the Drake gusher.
Got hiking shoes?
Oh, and every auto loan in existence is worthless overnight if there is insufficient gasoline to get to the job.

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 10:32 | 2369791 maximin thrax
maximin thrax's picture

Don't sell the railroads short. Or river transportation. All can run on coal as they did back then. Yeah, you'll have to take a bike or horse-drawn taxi to the freight depot. Once the rioting to decide who will be running things has died down we'd have transportation back up in a year or so.

As long as Zero is spending trillions to keep the GDP from flagging, one of the best investments would be a two-track rail system between every population center over one million people, a main line through every 50,000+ population center and a short line to every 5000+ population center. Coal, natural gas and eventually nuclear could run it all.

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 08:42 | 2369417 Element
Element's picture

Haven't read that. The world itself is a bit of an open book right now.

May I suggest a reliable and fairly mechanically simple bike and ten years worth of spares for it, lube, bearings, tires (these may not last ten years, so be careful how you store them), tubes, cables, and a couple of good pumps, LED lights, Lithium batteries, and a solar panel charger ... and a good took kit, etc.

No  ... no Pee-Wee Herman tassels ... they'll get you killed.

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 09:05 | 2369496 NewWorldOrange
NewWorldOrange's picture

You can't possibly be serious? Sarcasm right?

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 11:25 | 2370029 Uchtdorf
Uchtdorf's picture

The Pee-Wee Herman tassles? Nope, he's serious. And the rest of his post is great advice.

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 10:32 | 2369790 LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

it's a good suggestion.  Look at how the NVA and vietcong were supplied.   A man could move 2 to 3 bodyweights on a bicycle with panniers through some of the shittiest terrain in the world.  While under interdictive air attacks.

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 10:51 | 2369888 NewWorldOrange
NewWorldOrange's picture

Interesting point. Having once lived in Amsterdam for four years, I'm no stranger to the utility of bicycles. Just seems to me if the shit hit the fan as it must, riding around on a bike would be suicidal. Maybe if ALL that happened was no more oil, okay then. But along with that comes either mayhem/martial law/etc and a need to move along in some other way, off the beaten track where it would be easier to move in groups by foot, OR natural gas would be plentiful and autos would use those as they already do in parts of the U.S. and elsewhere. There are centuries of nat gas remaining. Either way, stocking up on a ton of bike parts? I think there are a lot better uses of one's resources.

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 07:49 | 2369313 IBelieveInMagic
IBelieveInMagic's picture

Looks like you are circulating inflammatory junk -- no doubt, want to incite the idjuts in the crowds fighting. May want to keep it inside your b**t.

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 08:08 | 2369328 Element
Element's picture

I'll go with observing the present situation thanks.

People need to take a big step-back, and have a look at where we are, and how we got here, or we're going right off the cliff.

If you find that demoralising, that's to be expected, but it's still no reason to look away and be quiet about it.

As the saying goes, the future is NOW.

What we do now determines what we'll get, as a result, in our potential 'future'.

And that's far too important to leave to jackasses in 'power' or their media 'handlers'.


Plus we don't self-censor here, nor any other form of censorship, at zh.  

Why else are you here, if not to also be challenged by it?

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 17:45 | 2371677 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

Inshallah, no censorship.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!