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Debate: Do We Need More Regulation … Or Less?

George Washington's picture




 

The Issue Is Not Really Regulation … It is a Malignant, Symbiotic Relationship Relationship Between Government and Wall Street

In a new debate at Bloomberg, Jeff Madrick - Senior Fellow at the liberal Roosevelt Institute – argues we need more regulation.

Chris Whalen – the top independent bank analyst in the country, and a diehard conservative – argues we need less.

 

But they both agree that we need more transparency.

And the government could enforce regulations and laws already on the books ... like basic fraud law.

Indeed, as Jarrod Penwell notes, regulation is disproportionately applied too the little guy:

There is both too much regulation and too little regulation. Small firms are aggressively regulated. This makes it difficult for them to become significant competitors to big firms. Meanwhile big firms are not regulated at all. It is called a small-target bias.

The pattern is the same at most federal agencies, including the DOJ, SEC, FINRA, EPA, FDIC, FHA, FTC, etc. All of these agencies demonstrably exhibit a tremendous small-target bias. In order to demonstrate this yourself, take a look at any of these agencies’ enforcement actions over any significant period of time.

Moreover, the whole left-versus-right melodrama is a fake dichotomy. Specifically, conservatives tend to view big government with suspicion, and think that government should be held accountable and reined in. Liberals tend to view big corporations with suspicion, and think that they should be held accountable and reined in.

In other words, conservatives hate big unfettered government and liberals hate big unchecked corporations, so both hate legislation which encourages the federal government to reward big corporations at the expense of small businesses.

No wonder both liberals and conservatives are angry that the feds are propping up the giant banks – while letting small banks fail by the hundreds – even though that is horrible for the economy and Main Street.

Indeed, the government helped and encouraged the giant banks to get even bigger, and then has hidden their insolvency and shielded them from the free market, and helped them grow even during the severe downturn. In return, the big banks and giant corporations have literally bought and paid for the politicians.

The Dodd-Frank financial legislation wasn’t a compromise where things landed somewhere in the middle between liberal and conservatives ideas. Instead, it enshrines big government propping up the big banks … more or less permanently .

A 2010 Rassmussen poll found:

70% [of all voters] believe that the government and big business typically work together in ways that hurt consumers and investors.

(and see this).

Conservatives might call it “socialism” and liberals might call it “fascism” – they are the same thing economically.

Indeed:

The corrupt, giant banks would never have gotten so big and powerful on their own. In a free market, the leaner banks with sounder business models would be growing, while the giants who made reckless speculative gambles would have gone bust. See this, this and this.

 

It is the Federal Reserve, Treasury and Congress who have repeatedly bailed out the big banks, ensured they make money at taxpayer expense, exempted them from standard accounting practices and the criminal and fraud laws which govern the little guy, encouraged insane amounts of leverage, and enabled the too big to fail banks – through “moral hazard” – to become even more reckless.

 

Indeed, the government made them big in the first place:

As MIT economics professor and former IMF chief economist Simon Johnson points out today, the official White House position is that:

(1) The government created the mega-giants, and they are not the product of free market competition

***

(3) Giant banks are good for the economy

And given that the 12 Federal Reserve banks are private – see this, this, this and this- the giant banks have a huge amount of influence on what the Fed does. Indeed, the money-center banks in New York control the New York Fed, the most powerful Fed bank. Indeed, Jamie Dimon – the head of JP Morgan Chase – is a Director of the New York Fed.

 

Any attempt by the left to say that the free market is all bad and the government is all good is naive and counter-productive.

 

And any attempt by the right to say that we should leave the giant banks alone because that’s the free market are wrong.

 

The [corrupt, captured government "regulators"] and the giant banks are part of a single malignant, symbiotic relationship.

Indeed, both progressives and conservatives – in America and all over the world – are demanding an end to the crony capitalism which is destroying our economy.

 

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Fri, 05/18/2012 - 01:58 | 2438683 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Allowing failure and rewarding hard work is all that is needed.

That, and prosecuting obvious fraud.

Instead, Washington won't allow failure of banks or corporations (only individuals and households), rewards fraud, and prosecutes retired atheletes for fibbing to them in a non-binding illegal hearing.

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 23:33 | 2438388 spooz
spooz's picture

small is beautiful.  I would like to see thresholds on regulations to make small businesses more competitive.  A commenter named DeDude over on Ritholtz has this suggestion regarding banks:

"FDIC insurance has been very effective at preventing bank runs at times of uncertainty. Even the 2008 crisis did not end in the type of collapse that comes from a run on all banks (good and bad), when nobody are 100% sure if anybody will survive. What we should do is set an upper limit on the size of banks that are insured. When assets exceed $ 500 billion then the FDIC insurance should be withdrawn and all costumers warned at least once a year that their deposits are NOT covered by government insurance and that they could lose everything if their bank go down. In addition the FDIC should put strict rules on what a bank can do so we don’t have casino gambling in government insured institutions."

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2012/05/the-never-ending-attempts-to-eliminate-regulations-or-why-has-canada-figured-this-out-while-the-us-acts-like-a-nation-run-by-warlord-banker-lobbyist/

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 22:54 | 2438290 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

Need more!

Seven federal agencies and state regulators along with amongst the highest reserves in the world did not matter a teeny bit but who cares? Need more government bullshit which inevitably results in less competition or is merely a disguise for the big banks to regulate the small banks out of existence while not changing the big banks standard operating procedure a teeny bit. 

What happened to holding any of these regulators accountable? No fear, creating more will just make each even less accountable and that is the goal.

 

Great article George,

no one could have done it better.

Tony B

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 21:51 | 2438136 Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

The BIGGEST red herring of all time in politicis is "regulations".  No one likes regs until, oh, they get food poisoning from eating bad meat, kids get lead poisoning from playing with tainted toys from China, or watching oil come onshore near your beach house in the Gulf, or drugs given to you by your bribed doctor that turn out to kill you, or when (fill in the blank).  Then the first fucking question is....."WHERE ARE THE FUCKING REGULATORS!!  WE NEED NEW REGULATIONS BECAUSE COMPANIES ALWAYS PUT PROFITS FIRST!!!"

Since our government is liable for these fucking banksters, then yes, they need to be regulated. We fucking regulate restaurants, gas stations, everything else under the sun. Why not these pieces of fecal matter? Especially since they are more than capable of collusion, fraud, idiocy, and sociopathic greed upon society. And you saw firsthand and up close that these fuckers will suicide themselves and their banks if it makes them a buck. "Suicide bankers" as Max Keiser calls them. 

Of course, it would be nice if we did not have REGULATORY CAPTURE, and the rule of law enforced, and moral and decent regulators doing their job instead of watching porn, on the take, etc. (I am talking to YOU, SEC).   But hey, at least I can dream....

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 21:01 | 2438016 paint it red ca...
paint it red call it hell's picture

"The issue is not really regulation ... It is the Malignant, Symbiotic, Relationship between Government and Wall Street"  

needn't forget also with  Big Pharma, Big Food, Big Energy and Big Oil. oh and Big Government

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 20:46 | 2437989 dexter_morgan
dexter_morgan's picture

It kinda matters who makes the regulations and how they choose to enforce them. Consider income taxes (initially unconstitutional) and ask why do we have a book of tax regulations 2 feet thick? How and why would it get that way when basically all we want to do is  tax a certain amount of income at a specific rate or rates? The damn wealthy assholes and special interests and their paid for politicians write the laws and that is why there are so many loopholes, exemptions, special circumstances, etc. etc. The fucking inmates run the zoo, and we keep putting them back in there because they promise us some pittance of a change and we fall for it. And, speaking of enforcement, the sons of bitches use the IRS, and most other regulatory bodies, to go after their enemies while their friends get the blind eye.. Roosevelt was a pro and a trailblazer in that area, and every president and powerful person since has used it the same way.

You could make the tax code about 20 pages long and have a much fairer, more understandable, and more just code. And, it couldn't easily be used as a weapon against your political adversaries. Would force a lot of lawyers and accountants to find real jobs, but thats how it is.

The same applies to all regulation. Make them short, simple, fair, few or no exeptions, apply and enforce it equally and you have much less corruption, manipulation, and favoritism.How? I have no idea. Not allowing all the attachments, amendments and riders to bills would be a start, line item veto another possibility.

So, in summary it isn't about regulation being good or bad, or too few, it's too many, with too damn many exceptions and exemptions and too little equal and fair enforcement.

The first step in all this may just be to make all politicians have to live under and by all the laws and regulations they pass, which IS NOT the case now.

 

 

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 20:41 | 2437979 mendigo
mendigo's picture

The problem is not so much over-regulation as unenforceable bloated regulation that accomplishes not but to deceive the public and provide an image of things being under control.
My thought would be that the sec should be abolished and stock market completely deregulated (or self regulated).
And banks that hold fdic insured deposits should have a countable this of what they can do with that money and constraints on how they are run - basically a financial database with a human interface.

To talk of regulation is such bullshit none of it is enforced.

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 19:28 | 2437831 SILVERGEDDON
SILVERGEDDON's picture

If government regulatory enforcement was a condom, it would have the structural integrity of a colander made out of snot.

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 20:15 | 2437913 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

regulations and law don't scare people. experiencing the harsh consequences do.

 

Let all TBTF fail and you don't need to regulate banks anymore for a long time. Also put the executives in the pound-in-the-ass prison. You don't need tell banksters twice after few years of that experience.

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 19:18 | 2437794 Walt D.
Walt D.'s picture

All of this is smoke and mirrors - JPMoron, GoldmanSucks and Cititurd own the Congress.

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 19:13 | 2437781 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

Good article

..now how do we enact a free market through the one and only suffocator of the free market, Govt itself ?

How does the corrupt vessel of the body politic, owned by the Big Banks, vote for and through legislation to wash away all the rules, Regs and legislation that strangle the free market and act as a protection racket for the Big corrupt vested interests??

Turkeys voting for Christmas ...dont be holding your breath for that to (ever) happen

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 19:08 | 2437763 blindman
blindman's picture

WAR ~ The World Is A Ghetto
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKKMdmPBWRk

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 19:01 | 2437733 Diet Coke and F...
Diet Coke and Floozies's picture

I submit that a return to "Do to others as you would have done to you." will suffice.

Regulate yourselves, bitchez!

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 18:53 | 2437716 blindman
blindman's picture

if we go with less regulation on financial fraud
we need to legalize homicide. that is all.

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 18:32 | 2437662 riphowardkatz
riphowardkatz's picture

Transperancy might just be the dumbest word of 2012.  Or how about sustainable transparency? That is when they drop a stack of 100,000 pages of law on your desk and say here it is jackass enjoy.

All the US needs is to accept that proper roll of government is to protect property rights and to provide a judicial system for punishing those who violate property rights and deciding who is right in the case of contractual disputes.

Individuals can take care of everything else.

 

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 18:21 | 2437636 nmewn
nmewn's picture

+16 trillion and counting George.

Elizabeth Warren, Paul Ryan and Newt Gingrich all agree repealing Glass-Steagall was a bad idea. Lets just get on with reinstating it and cut the commerce/investment banks off from the taxpayers purse.

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 18:13 | 2437619 sitenine
sitenine's picture

Regulation? Laughable.
Fascism, bitchez!
And your tax dollars are funding it!

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 18:32 | 2437652 falak pema
falak pema's picture

+1 mindset change irreversible w/o people's revolt. Gl-ST would be first step. Naked derivatives ban second, off shore banking house cleaning third, accountability, transparency and legal pursuance in due dilligence fourth, nationalisation of busted banks and consequent reorientation of industry to home countries fifth. Now we are talking deglobalisation based on socio-political criteria that do not stifle world trade but regulate unfair slave labour/oligarchy profit arbitrage. Closing down tax havens would be the final nail in Oligarchy coffin; along with dominant position anti oligopoly laws world wide via a transnational regulatory body that can match transnational Oligopoly power head to head! And break down the crony capitalistic transnational cabal world wide. Its part of Pax Americana construct today but it could duplicate on ALL five continents pronto if Chindia or Brazil decide to create their own transnational behemoths. Its a world corpocracy disease irrespective of nation state origin.

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 18:06 | 2437589 MrBoompi
MrBoompi's picture

No law or regulation means a fucking thing if no one will enforce it. Sure I'm all for prudent financial regulations, but it might help to enfor e the goddamn laws already on the books first.

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 18:21 | 2437635 George Washington
George Washington's picture

I added this to the main post:

And the government could enforce regulations and laws already on the books ... like basic fraud law.

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 19:01 | 2437737 Fred Hayek
Fred Hayek's picture

Amen.
Look, from the libertarian point of view, another aspect of regulation is that government tends to pick on whoever's easy to pick on. So, we get stories about cops shutting down little girls running a lemonade stand on their front lawn. But things are, oh, a bit more anything goes in gang dominated neighborhoods in cities. Some cops, unfortunately, have a bit of a bullying mentality to them and when they chicken out of going up against the crips or the bloods they'll sate that hunger with cracking down on John Q. Public under whatever pretense presents itself.

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 18:08 | 2437598 God Bless The V...
God Bless The Virtuous's picture

Spot on man!

Spot on

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 17:52 | 2437533 waterhorse
waterhorse's picture

More or less?  How about standard, simple, no-nonsense regulations (i.e., not bills that are 700 pages long, filled with riders and loopholes written by the lobbyists) and then how about actually ENFORCING them?  Yep, I know that will not happen. 

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 18:10 | 2437609 BeetleBailey
BeetleBailey's picture

+100 waterhorse. Couldn't have said it better.

Actually, my proposal is to install polygraph machines under every seat in Congress. Require all sitting members to strap up before they utter a word. Ditto for anyone "testifiying" - as douchebag Dimon is set to do (softball questions, furrowed brows, mea culpa all over the place - then lunch).

The Feds and DOJ LOVE to use polygraphs. Call them a "tool" to keep people honest.

Oh yes, they say - they aren't "admissiable" in court. Still, they swear by them. Claim they work.

THAT should BE a regulation. Member of Congress? Strap up and tell the truth.

I've been polygraphed. The danged contraption got me lying every single time. The calibration test was uncanny. Nailed me.

Ten minutes each morning pre-session, members sit. Calibration. Then, time to talk - and no more lies.

Yep. I know this also will not happen.

I once asked a person running for local office is she would submit to a polygraph, after her sunny speech at a fund raiser. You should have seen the look on her face - and the stammering bullshit as she tried to wriggle out of saying so.....lost my vote, and plenty of others that night.

Politicans. Liars. I'm sick of it.

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 18:56 | 2437724 Fred Hayek
Fred Hayek's picture

Ron Paul in the house and his son Rand Paul in the senate would get to do almost ALL the speaking in both chambers.

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 17:48 | 2437515 God Bless The V...
God Bless The Virtuous's picture

We are an over regulated, over taxed society and the mere fact that the lame street media goes along with everything from this administration is complicit!

Want to teach your children about the freedom to start their own little business?

A lemonade stand!

The simple all American lemonade stand you and I and every other child at one point or another growing up tried to do.

Better get the required permits, NOW required!

Want to take some food and go feed your hungry neighbor?

It is now illegal to feed the homeless without the proper approval!

Cass Sunstein is the most dangerous man in the republic.

He has a brand spanking new department and I'm sure all kind of enforcers to go forth and make sure Cass and his declarations are obeyed!

What new department you say?

The O.I.A.R.   The Office Of Information and Regulation!

My god, look what we have let happen to the republic!

Today of all day's, this greatest of so many great American day's, Washington's covenant with God!

God's hand in the "Pea soup of fog" that even left the British believing in divine intervention!

Look up your history America, before the extreme left / progressives scrub it forever!

 

May the good lord watch over this fragile little experiment in freedom / man's self rule we call America

God   Bless    The   Virtuous

Jerry

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 22:56 | 2438308 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

ftr it is a nine month wait for a lemonade stand permit in NYC-no joke.

 

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 18:11 | 2437614 MrBoompi
MrBoompi's picture

I'm no fan of Obama when it comes to How he's handled the fraud that is the US financial sector, but can anyone please explain how douchebag Mitt Romney would make things any better? Hey I may be a 1%er, and I could sure use another big tax cut, but what the fuck good is that going to do?

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 18:38 | 2437676 God Bless The V...
God Bless The Virtuous's picture

Well to start with he is not a douchebag communist!

Obama is an extreme left wing socialist at best, a communist as he was raised into that whole communist thing at worst!

Frank Marshal Davis, a card carrying communist was his boyhood mentor.

The more you do the lame street media's job for them and actually vet Obama, the more disgusted you become...

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 19:21 | 2437804 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

i don't think it makes any difference whatsoever if we have a Marxist, fascist or Ronald McDonald in the White House... the Presidential role is one purely of PR and presentation nowadays

the business of Govt is conducted outside Congress by vested interests and lawyers writing legislation passed by bribes to senators with sweetners 

whatever puppet or Party you vote for is purely a vacuous sham of an exercise, as it was designed to be from the outset of 'democracy'

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 00:40 | 2438530 James-Morrison
James-Morrison's picture

The paradox of democracy.

We want term limits, but we are too stupid to recognize we have them now. 

There should be NO CAREER POLITICIANS. 

Just like there should be NO CAREER JURORS.

Voting is easy.  Just pull the lever for the guy who is not in office. 

Eliminate the political caste of overlords. 

Ideology has got us to this point in history.

Geesh, pull the other lever already.

 

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 05:51 | 2438822 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

Term limits simply means the corrupt businesses and individuals will have a revolving door of puppets (politicians).. it's a rediculous 'solution' that does not address the problem

the problem being representation of the peoples interests is a joke, it's a mockery of democracy to collectivise society and say they can be represented by a half dozen windbags

the best democracy is freedom, individual choice day in day out. That is democracy. Not voting for candidates you don't know from Adam, don't really like the sound but he's the least ugly of the other twats up for election and when they get into office 95% of what they do was never in their manifesto

anyone seen on any candidates or parties manifesto (or had a chance to vote for) the new mega-expensive mega-spy-on-US-citizens centre? ...so if nobody voted for it how the hell did the US Govt go ahead and build it?

Democracy is a sham like Govt... it was never designed for the people, it was designed for the lazy greedy parasites to live off societies backs

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 17:59 | 2437569 Thunder_Downunder
Thunder_Downunder's picture

....

 

Yeah.. nice example. So when your kid gets ecoli and spends a couple weeks in hospital because bad sanitation at a stand, you're just gonna take it on the chin? What about the $10k in hospital fees?

 

You wouldn't approach your local member about the 'unsafe' practices that are flourishing? You aren't going to attempt to seek compensation from the family of the minor who poisoned your child?

 

Dont confuse bad regulation with a lack of it, and bad taxation with too much of it. Nothing is black and white.... 

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 22:58 | 2438313 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

ftr EColi contamination is way UP since the advent of the FDA not down.

Good strawman though, afterall need governance because lemonade stands were killing people left and right.

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 23:52 | 2438430 Thunder_Downunder
Thunder_Downunder's picture

Did you learn 'straw man' reading ZH comments?

 

Your use of it is not correct. I was asking a question, to clarify the position of another comment, not stating a position. 

 

What exactly would you do if your child was sickened by a food product, purchased from a community store?

 

Actually.. never mind, I don't care.

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 00:07 | 2438458 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

Strawman=imaginary victims of unregulated lemonade stands.

The use was 100% correct.

The next time the FDA finds an outbreak of something before a lot of people have already gotten sick, come find me.  In the meantime the outbreaks I read about are from everything licensed and regulated, in fact I can't remember the last outbreak from a community store or for that matter an unliscensed and unregulated entity.

 

 

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 20:51 | 2437994 Advoc8tr
Advoc8tr's picture

very true - but the only choice you get is either none or  too much.

100's of years of history and logical extrapolation proves that governments are incapable of stopping when the balance is found.

I would prefer none to too much because you can choose to self regulate in a regualtory void but you cannot choose to partly regulate yourself in an overly regulated environment.

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 23:45 | 2438417 Thunder_Downunder
Thunder_Downunder's picture

Holy shit... you got my point. Just when i was starting think I wasn't writing in english.

 

The either or none is a societal decision, that should be consciously made (but isn't, especially by soapboxers).

 

A very good point.. both end points are intolerable. These movements should attack the political system, however they are easily distracted... misdirected

 

No regulation is a fallacy though- its not attainable. Social systems are too entwined, globally not just locally. 

 

The only things that are deregulated are prudential controls and systems of accountability for elected officials. The push for deregulation paradoxically concentrates power.  Concentration of power is facilitated by this concept of small gov. The powerful do not meekly surrender their influence.

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 00:01 | 2438442 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

Your point is 100% false there is no better way for the powerful to maintain power than by corrupting the government.

That would be why the ultra rich are largely for large government and why governments with age almost exlusively move from less governance to more.

If that was not the case, then the world would not be suffering from too much government everywhere since of course the rich and powerful are the ones who are responsible for the governance. If what you described was the true, the rich and powerful would have been dismantling governments worldwide for the last centuries instead of doing the exact opposite.

 

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 23:00 | 2438314 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

ftr, there is no choice. Government almost exclusively moves from less to more until there is none.

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 23:48 | 2438422 Thunder_Downunder
Thunder_Downunder's picture

You're an idiot.

 

If this statement is true, your position is futile. Like arguing with gravity.

 

If this statement is false, you're an idiot.

 

Either way, you're an idiot.

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 00:10 | 2438464 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

Surrender noted.

it is amazing that there are still complete fucking idiots around who believe the government is their friend and there to help them.

 

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 18:07 | 2437592 God Bless The V...
God Bless The Virtuous's picture

Thunder down under

Surely you jest!

Dont call me Shirley!

 

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 18:22 | 2437640 Thunder_Downunder
Thunder_Downunder's picture

So you would accept such a scenario as bad luck and move on?

 

Most in your cohort would not...

 

and what if someone gave a sammich to the homeless man, and with a tasty slice of putrified ham, and he becomes ill and perhaps perishes because of the exceptional health care system available. That man was a member of your family, you take that as bad luck and move on too?

 

People get what people want, and the US people want regulation.. rules to make them feel safe, rules of engagement make them feel empowered...

 

While the real game is played elsewhere...

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 18:43 | 2437689 God Bless The V...
God Bless The Virtuous's picture

If you do go about doing this kind of thing with malice at heart, then sir,

you'd be, at least in my book,

a scumbag!

Most American's are good decent people who want nothing more than the chance to get ahead and along the way if the need arises, to help their fellow man!

That's just the way I was brought up.

Let God back into your heart and you see the world through a different lens!

Hope this helps

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 19:08 | 2437764 Thunder_Downunder
Thunder_Downunder's picture

Empty rhetoric and character assasination never helps.

 

 

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 20:52 | 2437996 nmewn
nmewn's picture

So you would sue/fine/imprison the little girl or her parents running a lemonade stand?

We assume everyone voluntarily buys the lemonade, accepting any and all risks that come with it via the known "black market" of unregulated, untaxed, unscrupulous lemonade stands being run on every street corner by little girls...its rampant out there!!!...lol.

I bought some from a couple little girls outside of a Walgreens the other day trying to get money up for a camping trip...it was very good...I even left a generous tip, they looked like they had been out there all day...daddy just smiled at me knowing their earnings weren't gonna cover it.

I smiled back...it was pretty good.

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 22:52 | 2438294 Thunder_Downunder
Thunder_Downunder's picture

Undertstand the basic tennants of western law..

 

DUTY OF CARE. Look it up.

 

I'm did not say I was for or against anything, I asked the preacher for his position in a real world scenario given his lollypop land ideas.

 

People willingly and stupidly accept risk every day. They do so with rose colored glasses, never expecting the risk to be realised.

 

When it is they cry and stamp their feet and demand tougher regulation. 9/11 is a super dooper example of a consequence of risk- marginalise through foriegn policy for political gains, accept the higher risk of confrontation. Risk is realised, everyone cries.

 

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 20:51 | 2437995 Bollixed
Bollixed's picture

Let me guess...you fell off your bike as a kid without wearing a helmet, didn't you.

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 22:47 | 2438277 Thunder_Downunder
Thunder_Downunder's picture

 

*sigh* troll hat going on. Too hard being civil.

 

You dumbasses miss my point. No regulation is just as bad as dumb regulation. Stop crying about regulation and FIX THE CORRUPTION. The regulation argument is a misdirection.. damn lemmings. 

 

Preachers like the guy above cry for the good ol' days, then run to the courts when the good ol' days bite them in the ass.

 

THERES NO SUCH THING AS THE GOOD OL' DAYS. ITS A GRASS IS GREENER FALLACY YOU MORONS.

 

The good ol days were harsh and unfair, and whingers and intellectual midgets like you lot were pandered to by politicians. The masses got what they wanted.

 

The thing needed is something americans will apparently never understand... separation of powers, the rule of law, and ... moderation.

 

 

 

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