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Gettin Ugly

Bruce Krasting's picture




 

 

I got into a bit of an Internet tussle with Marketwatch 666. This was another of those posts from the defenders of Social Security, and like most of these articles, this one fell back on an old tired line. The author quoted Ronnie Reagan: (I wanted to barf)

 

Social Security can’t add to the deficit.

 

mw

 

So I dashed off a comment:

 

Social Security does not add to the deficit. Ronnie was right.

Social Security DOES add to the DEBT of the country.

Both statements are true. Which one is the one to focus on?

In 2013 the answer is that it is the debt that matters, not the deficit, and SS is adding to the debt.

 

The author, R.J Sigmund, comes right back with: (and I’m grabbing for the wastebasket again)

 

Bruce, the debt is not a problem....the world economy is suffering from a shortage of safe assets, and the only way to alleviate the shortfall is to increase the debt

 

Then he goes on to add:

 

you've conveniently omitted the fact that it also earned more than $117b in interest on the government bonds in the trust fund....

 

I love it when this happens; folks playing “gotcha”, not even understanding the facts. I come back with my standard response:

 

Careful where you go with that interest income line. Interest is a NON CASH ITEM. SS needs cash to make benefit payments. So SS has to hock its bonds with Treasury to come up with the CASH needed. Treasury, in turn, must borrow from the public to fund the SS shortfall.

 

I told them to go to SSA, and look at the bottom line results at SS for 2011:

 

tf

 

Every penny of the $45.379B cash shortfall had to be borrowed by the Treasury. Treasury did that by issuing more Debt to the Public. I added some number about what's in store for the future with cash deficits at SS:

 

2010 SS deficit = $47B,

2011 SS deficit =$48B,

2012 SS deficit = $60B,

2013- 2023 SS deficit = ~$1T

 

Anyway, I doubt I changed RJ's views on this too much. This is an emotive topic, and I suspect it is going to become more charged in the weeks to come. It’s very hard to have a debate with someone who starts with, “debt is not a problem”. It’s even harder when the debate is ended with:

 

...so take your ranting back to zero hedge, where you might find some other chicken little types who'll buy into your theories...

 

images

 

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Wed, 01/09/2013 - 20:36 | 3139042 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

You are correct - that is why I'm pissed off - and why I hope the ponzi collapses.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 16:13 | 3137875 OneTinSoldier66
OneTinSoldier66's picture

Nice one Bruce. Now your talking my language, although I don't think insurance should come from the Government.

 

Rated the article a 5 fwiw.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 17:48 | 3138426 ajax
ajax's picture

 

Oh here we go again:

your (language)

you're (talking my language) - come on Bruce you can do it

there (the language is different)

their (language is English)

they're (talking my language)

its (language is a bark)

it's (a language we can't understand)

and especially for Bruce who (not that) may be in a fit of "pique" (not peak) because of this English primer (pronounced primmer not primer like an undercoat of paint): copy this comment, print it out for yourself and when in doubt read it before you type.

You're welcome.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 19:09 | 3138761 hooligan2009
hooligan2009's picture

heh..picky pucky...i will now wait for the "kma" reply

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 21:01 | 3139143 Crisismode
Crisismode's picture

No, Most ZH "Intellectuals" don't have the brains to spell English correctly.

 

But then again, They ARE Zero Hedge Intellectuals and don't HAVE to spell English correctly.

 

They get a pass.

 

 

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 16:12 | 3137867 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Bruce, the debt is not a problem....the world economy is suffering from a shortage of safe assets, and the only way to alleviate the shortfall is to increase the debt

So, we're doing the world a favor by providing high quality debt to buy.  We're HELPING them by taking their money and handing them our debt in return.

That's really big of us. 

We're "helping" just like printing more money in the Weimar Republic was "helping" the public have enough money to pay for the ever-spiraling cost of everything.  That kinda help.

 

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 17:39 | 3138376 Ned Zeppelin
Ned Zeppelin's picture

The thing is, we're not even taking anyone's money -  we're simply printing as to the new (the Fed buys and puts in its Beyond the Financial Event Horizon Vault), and rolling over as to the old. Nothing is paid back.  The way it is going, even if we did sell our bonds to others in exchange for their "earned" money, at some point there wouldn't be enough available money in the world to buy those bonds.  All the available money would be sucked into the Giant Black Hole of US Debt.

This shit is all about metaphysics. 

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 22:45 | 3139451 malek
malek's picture

Yeah, just like Bruce jumpstart in his post:

We're not taking anyone's money.
But we are taking a piece of everyone's money value.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 16:08 | 3137831 rjs
rjs's picture

bruce neglected to supply you all with some of the background for my comment about shortage of debt: from my Dec 2011 post:

there were a number of important posts this week dealing with a problem i've been trying to wrap my head around & explain in comments on other's blogs for several weeks, that being that the outstanding US debt & other safe assets are in such short supply that financial markets, & more specifically the shadow banking system, is unable to function properly...US debt, that same US debt that our lame brained policy makers & politicians damn & rant about, has a special function in the financial markets; without it, the financial markets freeze up...what's important to understand is that short term US government debt has become, at least in part, the worlds money supply; a million dollar Treasury bill is used as money by the international banking system and by sovereign wealth funds in the same sense that you use a ten dollar bill in your wallet…thus, any contraction of the supply of the reserve currency (our treasury debt) has a negative impact on the world economy in the same manner that a contraction in the domestic money supply impacts our nation's economy (see IMF paper on this, PDF)...the adjacent chart, from the 2012 credit suisse global outlook via FT Alphavile, shows the decline in safe (AAA) assets in primary reserve currencies available to use as financial collateral & in repurchase agreements over the last decade (skipping some years); the two that dropped out with the recession’s onset were structured products (red) & agency MBS (grey); downgrades of european countries have further reduced AAA assets this year…as economist david beckworth points outthese safe assets serve as transaction assets and thus either back or act as a medium of exchange…(they) have served as collateral for repurchase agreements, the equivalent of a deposit account for the shadow banking system…the disappearance of safe assets therefore means the disappearance of money for the shadow banking system”…this problem exacerbated the liquidity crunch that developed in the European banking system a few months back which prompted the Fed’s recent action to coordinate with 5 other central banks to lower the price of dollar denominated currency swaps in order to ease ongoing bank funding strains, and this week’s ECB lending of $641B to banks via a 3 year LTRO, which, btw still doesnt seem successful as ECB overnight deposits hit a new high thursdayquality collateral has become so scarce that banks are hoarding it just as a miser would hide paper money under a mattress in times of uncertainty…but instead of creating “money” when its in short supply & needed, the world is stuck with this system of having to borrow it & pay it back; what steve roth at angry bear callsa stunningly byzantine and dysfunctional approach to managing the supply of money to the real economy that produces human-consumable goods and services (though it works out very nicely for the bankers, personally)”
reducing the debt even effects us adversely domestically; Dr Randall Wray has shown that in each of the 6 times in US history where we had a depression, it was preceded by substantial budget surpluses and significant reduction of the debt; this was a concern of the Fed & bush administration economists early last decade; it became clear that if clinton surpluses continued & our debt was paid down, the financial system would soon experience a dearth of safe assets & would begin to lock up; so the bush tax cuts were initiated in order to keep levels of AAA assets high enough for the markets to operate..but now, the same bush chief economist who was the architect those tax cuts, greg mankiw, is now nefariously suggesting that US debt under obama makes the US similar to greece or zimbabwe…we really need a new word to describe government note, bill, & bond issuance, because the nature of a government issue is closer to creating needed money than it is to what the public & the airheaded congresscritters think of as "debt"...obviously, obama suffers from the same delusion, saying that the government is like a household and should also tighten its belt when times are tough...& the mistake they're all making is what's costing us this prolonged & deep recession...

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 17:36 | 3138357 Ned Zeppelin
Ned Zeppelin's picture

It took me a while to understand that a US government bond is nothing more than a safe storage device for holding US Dollars.  Where else are they 100% secure?  It pays a small amount of interest, but their primary function is to serve as a bullet-proof repository of big piles of USDs.   As ultra-safe repositories, they make ideal collateral - who can dispute their value - and especially good collateral for being pledged 2, 3 or more times as is currently done to buttress the shakey and super-extended edifice we can a financial system. This notion that such debt is much needed money and therefore harmless is interesting, but . . . the problem, to me, is that wealth is no longer stored if these repositories are acquired by mere the printing of money stored inside.  It is alchemy and a violation of the laws of physics (except maybe if you are at the quantum level) to suggest you can produce something from nothing.  A little simplistic? Perhaps. 

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 19:17 | 3138300 hooligan2009
hooligan2009's picture

 

well good on you for making the time to clarify what you said to bruce..i guess you both will be cross posting on these two sites now so we can't get to see all the innuendos and outuendos. never mind..i think we get the gist.

it is your case that no matter how crappy the quality is, the US economy can't function without a supply of US tresuries that matches the growth in GDP.

ok..so if the rise in debt issuance exceeds the nominal growth in gdp that would be what...stimulus? so your case is that the debt to gdp has increased by some 25% in the last four years, when nimonal GDP growth has been around what, 10%? is a stimulus to gdp of 15% over four years?

you must be either somewhat bemused that gdp hasn't gone up an extra 15% and are just wating for the happy day when the world comes to its senses and stops expecting a return of it smoney to consume as health benefits or pensions..or there must be a flaw in your argument. 

to me the flaw in your argument is clear and, in this respect, there is no difference between a bankrupt individual and a bankrupt country. 

firstly, there are countries that have zero net government debt and do actually have GDP output made up of private sector activity only (think Asia and Middle East. similarly there are countries that have operated without debt to gdp in excess of 40% for decades if not centuries, including the US, that is until the Regan era.

secondly, if your argument had the least basis of economic sense, we are all headed for a place where the fed simply monetizes the fiscal position, regardless of whether taxes are collected or not. nobody needs to pay taxes, all the government has to do is run fiscal deficits and have the central bank print the money to buy the government debt and repo it out at a rate that it chooses. this will of course result in zero work done in the conomy by anyone since they just need to wait for their federal reserve bank notes.

thirdly, the evidence is not on your side either in zimbabwe or japan.

Fourthly, you are broke when you have no net assets and insufficient income to cover your outgoings. The first remedy to this position is to stop doing it. Why is that different for a government? Are you suggesting that every IMF programme to rescue/bail-out a country could have been avoided simply by printing debt? I am pretty sure that is why so many countries only got to call in the IMF, when they already tried that.

Anyway..good on you again for at least putting forward your point of view. I remain of the opinion that fiscal deficits are an unnecessary evil, perpetrated on tax payers by corrupt politicians and fiscal deficits are symptomatic of countries that prefer physical violence to win/win relationships. The same applies to central banks.

 

 

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 17:19 | 3138264 Rearranging Dec...
Rearranging Deckchairs's picture

So what paradigm shifting event will cause those same soverign funds to start using gold bullion as their currency instead of short term U.S. Debt? Some would say that there will be a shift to some other reserve curreny perhaps Chinese Debt? I think in any kind of a black swan event where the global financial market suddenly looses confidence in the U.S. Debt gold would rocket higher as the safe asset.

When confidence in U.S. Debt finally disappears the shift will be titanic.

 

 

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 17:06 | 3138188 Thisson
Thisson's picture

You are a fucking moron.  You're gonna come here and explain to ZH readers that debt is money?  NO SHIT, SHERLOCK!  And no, US debt is not a "safe asset" any more than Greek Sovereign debt or Argentinian debt is safe.  It's fucking paper.  The only reason we accept dollars is to tender them back to government in payment of taxes.  Go read some Ludwig von Mises - this is a debt implosion and issuing more treasuries is not going to solve the problem.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 17:06 | 3138187 malek
malek's picture

Anybody arguing about a shortage of debt is completely mad, and about as perverted as doctors would be if they complained about a shortage of injured people.

First: Yes, the baby boomers (demographic bulge) are in a bit of a shortfall of safe investments.
But that's because their relative cohort size being too large - which is a fact that cannot be changed in an acceptable way. So they will have to accept the consequences.

Secondly if there is ever a shortfall of safe assets, how do you believe the number of safe assets can be increased without making some or all of them unsafer at the same time? Answer: It can't be done, a fact you don't even address.

So if anything you are proposing to make everyone's assets unsafer, which in a way is the same thing Krugman recommends.

That would still be a possible path if it wouldn't at the same time disable the negative feedback mechanisms, effectively a move towards promoting bad behavior.
("Capitalism without failure is like Christianity without hell.")
The only thing the shills such as you then can come up with "it's all temporary". Yeah, sure, I have a bridge I can sell you, temporarily that is.

So it all sums up to: You are working hard to find or form the bigger fools.
Not with me, buddy!

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 17:03 | 3138177 Overfed
Overfed's picture

OMG! Paragraphs are your friend. Try using them!

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 16:24 | 3137936 CloseToTheEdge
CloseToTheEdge's picture

'dash' bruce is too busy herdin sheep to follow thru with his own arguement

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 16:29 | 3137920 Broccoli
Broccoli's picture

This is the most insane post I have ever read. I can only think of good ole Billy Madison.

You lost me on " the outstanding US debt & other safe assets are in such short supply that financial markets, & more specifically the shadow banking system, is unable to function properly."

US debt & other safe assets....heh. It is safe only as long as there is a bigger sucker waiting to buy. Right now the biggest sucker of all is buying to the tune of 85 billion a month. Tell me, if the world is in such a dearth of safe US government assets, why does the Fed have to monetize the debt in order to keep interest rates low? Shouldn't the demand for this rare and precious debt be so great the market does it naturally?

And why should anyone be concerned about the health of the shadow banking system other than the people who get huge bonuses from it?

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 16:39 | 3138037 rjs
rjs's picture

there is a reason that everything in that post is linked; here's the background post to what you quoted: http://macromarketmusings.blogspot.com/2011/12/why-global-shortage-of-safe-assets.html

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 16:51 | 3138106 Panafrican Funk...
Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

You appear to be like a dude camping in the woods, that's sitting in a small clearing, trying to start a campfire and failing, so you get some spare gasoline in a bottle out, and you're ready to spray it at your campfire, and some dude comes along and says, "Hey, might want to be careful with that, you might start a fire you can't control", and you say, "Piss off, old man!" 

Meanwhile, the entire fucking forest is on fire, and neither of you are even remotely aware of it. 

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 16:27 | 3137907 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

I remember someone saying something once to me about people that use poor grammar and improper punctuation.  Not that it matters, because THERE ARE ALSO THOSE TOO LAZY SO THEY TYPE EVERYTHING IN ALL CAPS.

Anyway, since I, like others here, are a bunch of chicken littles, I just wanted to give my opinion on your post, as it's too hard to read because it looks as if a grade 5 kid typed it.....  not that grade 5 is bad, or anything.

Your message is simply lost in your presentation, credibility also shot.

Word count: 698, Paragraphs: 1, Sentence ending periods: 0.

Oh, and one more thing:  Debt does matter!  That's why the US has become a ponzi because in order to keep the system afloat, debt is the only instrument.  When debasement accelerates, look out!

 

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 01:03 | 3139810 Matt
Matt's picture

"He just kept talking, and talking, in one long incredibly unbroken sentence, moving from topic to topic, so that no one had a chance to interrupt; it was really quite hypnotic."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rYhRqf757I

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 16:18 | 3137897 El Diablo Rojo
El Diablo Rojo's picture

The Big Question on the ZH'ers minds, "Which one is more internet tough?"

Bruce weighing in at - 9-5 wallstreet divorced midlle aged master debater title holder, or the challenger; the weightless,  IMF shadow dumpster diver and web blog jumper with a hidden agenda and nobody to listen to him, RJS

Place your bets ladies.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 02:10 | 3139918 Freddie
Freddie's picture

LOL! Where have these idiots like Omen and RJS come from.  Are they obam/Krugman shills here to defend the magic $1 trillion platinum coin?

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 16:41 | 3138048 CloseToTheEdge
CloseToTheEdge's picture

your pinkys in the air are what this FIGHT CLUB has come to

 

 

you'll never make tink tink

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qlNEmpxQxI

 

 

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 16:18 | 3137895 secret_sam
secret_sam's picture

It's not exactly a big revelation around here that all the major banks are insolvent.  That's why there are so many "chicken littles" around this place waiting for the sky to fall. 

It could happen any day.  The basic problem with bad debt is that the debtor can't come up with the money if he's ever forced to try...

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 16:17 | 3137888 rjs
rjs's picture

also see from a few weeks back from Izabella Kaminska at FT Alphaville:

On the new purpose of government debt -   Frances Coppola has whipped up an absolutely fabulous commentary on this Bank of Iinternational Settlements working paper on safe assets, which cuts straight to the point of. As she neatly expresses, in our new looking glass world of finance…

the purpose of government debt is not to fund government spending. It is to provide safe assets.”

And here’s the excellent follow-up to that point:

The BIS proposal for ensuring the supply of global safe assets in effect treats currency-issuing governments – especially the US – as the world’s savings banks. 

 

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 17:58 | 3138477 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

the purpose of government debt is not to fund government spending. It is to provide safe assets.”

How can you write that with a straight face? 

Do you worship at the BIS altar? 

If that is the case, governments of the world should get in line to create as many safe assets as possible- oh wait, Someone has to pay the bill!!!!!

What a moron.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 18:26 | 3138619 rjs
rjs's picture

that's quoting FT Alphaville...

interesting that the commenters at ZH know so much more than all the financial journals & institutions in the world...i am humbled to be in the presense of such wisdom

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 01:20 | 3139843 lewy14
lewy14's picture

rjs is doing us a favor. Giving us a preview.

If you don't read the mainstream sites (I do - not the infotainment sites but the official organs of the PTB - e.g. the FT) then you have no idea how advanced the scam is.

Everthing that rjs and Omen (upthread) are spouting is official dogma.

This is the catechism of the people who are and forever more will be the boss of us.

There really isn't any escape anymore. They've won.

Oh sure, it will "collapse"... but they've figured out how to surf the cascade. It will all go avalanching into their tighter control.

Serfdom took hold with Diocletian. This is the end game - the total eradication of economic freedom - of money itself.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 20:17 | 3138990 Arbysauce
Arbysauce's picture

Weak. Appeal to authority. Try rebuttal.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 19:43 | 3138877 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

I don't think anyone here is saying that it's not true.  Just that it will quit working at some point -- disastrously.

Not like they have just now invented the wheel or something.   It's an old story with different names.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 19:19 | 3138788 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Since the financial journals and institutions of the world practice Keynsian, Samuelson, Friedman economics, it is easy to see your problem. Read an Austrian economics textbook and learn how markets really work. Keynes created a ridiculous theory to promote socialism and totalitarian rule and it was instituted in every university around the world. Such is the power of international bankers. 

Forget that none of it makes sense( read Hazlett's, The Failure of the New Economics"). 

You might want to try thinking for yourself sometime...

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 17:11 | 3138211 Thisson
Thisson's picture

the purpose of government debt is not to fund government spending. It is to provide safe assets.”

Triffin's Dliemna, Bitchez!

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 17:00 | 3138164 Arbysauce
Arbysauce's picture

Wow! When did it become the role of government to guarantee a return on capital? Thats just a price us taxpayers have to pay? Cause the banking system needs its safe assets? That is so fucked up.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 16:56 | 3138140 LynRobison
LynRobison's picture

Yes, and those safe assets will always be completely safe... until suddenly they are not.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 15:56 | 3137786 Shameful
Shameful's picture

While I appreciate your work on this Bruce, what is the point in arguing with people?  We all know nothing will be fixed until the finances demand it.  You have even discussed what is probably an accurate view of how this situation will be resolved via means testing and "chained" CPI.  While you are a smart guy I'm damn sure that people in the halls of power know exactly what the finances look like.  But they are to busing feathering their nests, and why not?  They won't get called out for it since most everyone wants to believe the ponzi lie.  The masses would rather cling to the lie up until the point where it ends up ruining them, then fall into "Who could have seen this coming?!?"  People react violently to truth, particular if that truth upsets one of their well loved delusions.

Figure there is something in being able to pull a "I told you so" and for the handful of people who are open to the idea, but must be like a prophet in the wilderness.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 15:54 | 3137764 HurricaneSeason
HurricaneSeason's picture

Social security is something most people will need. Make it mandatory that all government workers enroll in social security and PAY and there no problem. Let the government workers continue to contribute 2% or nothing when social security collects over 12% and there is a problem. Let the government workers retire from their job after working 20 years or less, instead of 45 years, and there will be a problem. Let the government workers retire from their job after 20 years or less and start taking their retirement money and then take their old job back while working on their second government retirement and there's a problem. Some retire 3 times from the same government job, all while contributing 2% or less and collecting probably 3 times what social security pays for EACH retirement of the SAME job. It just needs to totally collapse, not just the pensions, but affirmative action and government control of wage rates and business. It would take too many decades to slowly nip away at the 5 foot high tax laws and all the other legislation and court actions it would take to fix it.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 22:24 | 3139408 ceilidh_trail
ceilidh_trail's picture

Hurricane- Best comment I've read today. Us private economy (non .gov) workers have HAD to pay into SS. They took my money and yes, I AM OWED IT.My brother is/was a fed worker. Four years younger than me, 20yrs as a fed worker and he is set for life retired. I have another 13 years to go before I can collect SS. Ie, I will have put in 45 years to get a smaller check than he who put in 20. I am fine, as I did save and invest and have very little debt. But. it's the basic unfairness that "public servents" are now anything but. The playing field needs to be completely regraded.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 19:10 | 3138763 Umh
Umh's picture

Almost everyone is going to need their social security payout. The government took the money so they couldn't save it for their retirement. I personally know of ONE individual who has never bothered to file for their social security benefit; yes there are some very fortunate people, but most of us will need the money. I have saved some money and have a pension, but the social security check will still be greatly appreciated when I get old enough to get it. I still would have preferred an opt out of some kind; it's to late for that pipe dream.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 15:48 | 3137728 linrom
linrom's picture

There is no shortage of DEBT to make bond salesmen a fortune, there is a shortage of thieves to pay off that DEBT. A bond selling thief will sell you a FUTURE promise of income steam and re-payment of principal tomorrow for money received TODAY---a Ponzi con men rouse.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 15:42 | 3137698 Tango in the Blight
Tango in the Blight's picture

Arguing on the internet is usually pointless.

http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1368/987251565_22ea2338dd.jpg

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 16:11 | 3137862 chunkylover42
chunkylover42's picture

usually?

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 15:47 | 3137723 the grateful un...
the grateful unemployed's picture

arguing in a bar is a lot more effective

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 16:23 | 3137926 Bruce Krasting
Bruce Krasting's picture

Good idea! I'm headed for a bar, bring the lap top. Get rude and ugly on line, and in real life. Fist fighting between comments....

It's going to get ugly before Feb 15.............

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 17:04 | 3138180 azzhatter
azzhatter's picture

slap one along side the head for me Bruce

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 16:29 | 3137978 Wakanda
Wakanda's picture

no shirts, no shoes

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 15:51 | 3137735 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

Let's take it outside...Hey it's cold out there!

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 16:02 | 3137817 MrSteve
MrSteve's picture

Quote me: there are two kinds of money, cash and "all others"

BAWK, BAWK, BAWK, BAWK, BAWK!

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 15:42 | 3137696 rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

What is an asset these days?  A piece of paper backed by nothing?  That's what most assets are, oh and digital zeros.  Hmmm, no wonder there's a problem.  It's all a fucking joke.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 15:46 | 3137712 Tango in the Blight
Tango in the Blight's picture

I don't have any assets then. Only those funny looking shiny yellow and white pieces of metal. Which just sit there and do nothing. The people I bought them from said they would grow over the years but I have been looking at them carefully and I swear they are still the same size.

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