9/11 Commission Deceived: An Unintentional Work of Fiction Based on Cheney’s Torture Program

George Washington's picture


Preface:  This is not a partisan post. We have repeatedly documented that Obama is as bad or worse than the Bush administration.

In the run up to the Iraq war – and for several years thereafter – the program of torture carried out by the Bush administration was specifically specifically aimed at establishing a false justification for war. Dick Cheney is the guy who pushed for torture, pressured the Justice Department lawyers to write memos saying torture was legal, and made the pitch to Congress justifying torture. (The former director of the CIA said Cheney oversaw American torture policies).

The type of torture used by the U.S. on the Guantanamo suspects is of a special type. Senator Levin revealed that the the U.S. used Communist torture techniques specifically aimed at creating false confessions (see this, this, this and this).

According to NBC News:

  • Much of the 9/11 Commission Report was based upon the testimony of people who were tortured
  • At least four of the people whose interrogation figured in the 9/11 Commission Report have claimed that they told interrogators information as a way to stop being “tortured.”
  • One of the Commission’s main sources of information was tortured until he agreed to sign a confession that he was not even allowed to read
  • The 9/11 Commission itself doubted the accuracy of the torture confessions, and yet kept their doubts to themselves

In fact, the 9/11 Commission Report was largely based on third-hand accounts of what tortured detainees said, with two of the three parties in the communication being government employees.

As the 9/11 Commission Report itself states:

Chapters 5 and 7 rely heavily on information obtained from captured al Qaeda members. A number of these “detainees” have firsthand knowledge of the 9/11 plot. Assessing the truth of statements by these witnesses-sworn enemies of the United States-is challenging. Our access to them has been limited to the review of intelligence reports based on communications received from the locations where the actual interrogations take place. We submitted questions for use in the interrogations, but had no control over whether, when, or how questions of particular interest would be asked. Nor were we allowed to talk to the interrogators so that we could better judge the credibility of the detainees and clarify ambiguities in the reporting.

In other words, the 9/11 Commissioners were not allowed to speak with the detainees, or even their interrogators. Instead, they got their information third-hand.

The Commission didn’t really trust the interrogation testimony. For example, one of the primary architects of the 9/11 Commission Report – Ernest May – said in May 2005:

We never had full confidence in the interrogation reports as historical sources.

New York Times investigative reporter Philip Shenon Newsweek noted in a 2009 essay in Newsweek that the 9/11 Commission Report was unreliable because most of the information was based on the statements of tortured detainees:

The commission appears to have ignored obvious clues throughout 2003 and 2004 that its account of the 9/11 plot and Al Qaeda’s history relied heavily on information obtained from detainees who had been subjected to torture, or something not far from it.


The panel raised no public protest over the CIA’s interrogation methods, even though news reports at the time suggested how brutal those methods were. In fact, the commission demanded that the CIA carry out new rounds of interrogations in 2004 to get answers to its questions.


That has troubling implications for the credibility of the commission’s final report. In intelligence circles, testimony obtained through torture is typically discredited; research shows that people will say anything under threat of intense physical pain. [That's what top military interrogators say.]


And yet it is a distinct possibility that Al Qaeda suspects who were the exclusive source of information for long passages of the commission’s report may have been subjected to “enhanced” interrogation techniques, or at least threatened with them, because of the 9/11 Commission….


Information from CIA interrogations of two of the three—KSM and Abu Zubaydahis cited throughout two key chapters of the panel’s report focusing on the planning and execution of the attacks and on the history of Al Qaeda. [Remember the names "KSM" and "Abu Zubaydah" - we'll get back to them below.]


Footnotes in the panel’s report indicate when information was obtained from detainees interrogated by the CIA. An analysis by NBC News found that more than a quarter of the report’s footnotes—441 of some 1,700—referred to detainees who were subjected to the CIA’s “enhanced” interrogation program, including the trio who were waterboarded.


Commission members note that they repeatedly pressed the Bush White House and CIA for direct access to the detainees, but the administration refused. So the commission forwarded questions to the CIA, whose interrogators posed them on the panel’s behalf.


The commission’s report gave no hint that harsh interrogation methods were used in gathering information, stating that the panel had “no control” over how the CIA did its job; the authors also said they had attempted to corroborate the information “with documents and statements of others.”


But how could the commission corroborate information known only to a handful of people in a shadowy terrorist network, most of whom were either dead or still at large?


Former senator Bob Kerrey of Nebraska, a Democrat on the commission [one of the 9/11 Commissioners], told me last year he had long feared that the investigation depended too heavily on the accounts of Al Qaeda detainees who were physically coerced into talking. …

The Washington Post documents that Abu Zubaydah was literally crazy – as he head suffered a serious head injury years before 9/11 – and that the FBI agent involved in interrogating Abu Zubaydah and reviewing documents at his house (Daniel Coleman) said that everyone knew that Abu Zubaydah was an unreliable source for information.

This is confirmed by the the New Yorker. Pulitzer Prize winning journalist Ron Suskind writes that interrogator Coleman advised a top FBI official at the time:

“This guy is insane, certifiable, split personality.”

Indeed, the government has since backed away from all claims that Abu Zubaydah had any role in Al Qaeda or 9/11. For example – in September 2009 – the U.S. government admitted in writing in a court proceeding that Abu Zubaydah had never been a member or associate or supporter of al-Qaeda, was not involved in 9/11, and had no prior knowledge of 9/11:

The Government has not contended in this proceeding that Petitioner [Abu Zubaydah] was a member of al-Qaida or otherwise formally identified with al-Qaida.


Respondent [The United States Government] does not contend that Petitioner was a “member” of al-Qaida in the sense of having sworn a bayat (allegiance) or having otherwise satisfied any formal criteria that either Petitioner or al-Qaida may have considered necessary for inclusion in al-Qaida. Nor is the Government detaining Petitioner based on any allegation that Petitioner views himself as part of al-Qaida as a matter of subjective personal conscience, ideology, or worldview.


The Government has not contended in this proceeding that Petitioner had any direct role in or advance knowledge of the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001.




The Government has not contended that Petitioner had any personal involvement in planning or executing either the 1998 embassy bombings… or the attacks on September 11, 2001.

Kevin Ryan – who has interviewed 9/11 Commissioner Lee Hamilton, Abu Zubaydah’s attorney and other knowledgeable people – documents how central Abu Zubaydah is to the 9/11 Commission Report (footnotes omitted; see original for documentation)

The 9/11 Commission (falsely) called Zubaydah an “al Qaeda lieutenant.” The Joint Congressional inquiry did the same, calling him “al-Qa’ida leader Abu Zubaydah,” and the “Bin Ladin lieutenant captured in March 2002.” As late as 2006, the Justice Department’s Inspector General report on the 9/11 attacks called Zubaydah a “Bin Laden lieutenant.”


When Zubaydah was captured, in March 2002, U.S. government officials touted him as the biggest catch of the War on Terror, at least until the capture of Khalid Sheik Mohammed (KSM). FBI Director Robert Mueller stated that Zubaydah’s capture would help deter future attacks. White House spokesman Ari Fleischer said that Zubaydah could provide a treasure-trove of information about al-Qaeda. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld claimed that Zubaydah was “a man who knows of additional attacks”, who has “trained people to do this”, and was a big fish who had a fountain of knowledge.

The extensive allegations against Zubaydah went on and on, and included that he was:

  • along with KSM, one of “Al Qaeda’s top operational managers” – “Counterterrorism Czar”Richard Clarke, in his book Against All Enemies
  • “sinister” and “there is evidence that he is a planner and a manager as well. I think he’s a major player.” – Former State Department director of counter-terrorism, Michael Sheehan
  • “extremely dangerous” and a planner of 9/11. – State Department legal advisor John B. Bellinger III in a June 2007 briefing.
  • a trainer, a recruiter, understood bomb-making, was a forger, a logistician, and someone who made things happen, and made “al-Qaeda function.” – Former CIA station chief, Bob Grenier
  • “a close associate of UBL’s [i.e. Bin Laden], and if not the number two, very close to the number two person in the organization. I think that’s well established.” -Donald Rumsfeld
  • “a very senior al Qaeda official who has been intimately involved in a range of activities for the al Qaeda.” – Donald Rumsfeld
  • a “very senior al Qaeda operative.” – Donald Rumsfeld
  • a “key terrorist recruiter and operational planner and member of Osama bin Laden’s inner circle.” – White House spokesman Ari Fleischer
  • someone whose capture was a “very serious blow” to al-Qaeda and therefore one of al-Qaeda’s “many tentacles” was “cut off.” – White House spokesman Ari Fleischer
  • one of the top operatives plotting and planning death and destruction on the United States.” –President George W. Bush
  • one of al-Qaeda’s top leaders” who was “spending a lot of time as one of the top operating officials of al Qaeda, plotting and planning murder.” –President George W. Bush
  • “al Qaeda’s chief of operations.” – President George W. Bush
  • “one of the top three leaders” in al-Qaeda. – President George W. Bush
  • someone whose interrogation “led to reliable information”, a “prolific producer” of information, with whom originated roughly 25 percent of the information on al Qaeda that came from human sources. – [National Security Agency Director] Michael Hayden
  • one of three individuals “best positioned to know about impending terrorist atrocities.” – Michael Hayden

As the myth of Zubaydah grew, it was reported that he was –

  • “worth a ton of guys at Gitmo.”
  • a “senior bin Laden official” and the “former head of Egypt-based Islamic Jihad.”
  • “played a key role in the East Africa embassy attacks.”
  • listed as a “trusted aide” to bin Laden with “growing power.”
  • in control of al-Qaeda.
  • an aide of bin Laden who ran training camps in Afghanistan and “coordinated terror cells in Europe and North America.”
  • a “key terrorist recruiter, operational planner, and member of Osama Bin Laden’s inner circle.”
  • bin Laden’s CEO”, and “a central figure in Al Qaeda
  • Bin Laden’s “travel planner.”
  • “one of a handful of men entrusted with running the terrorism network in the event of Osama bin Laden’s death or capture.”
  • a senior bin Laden lieutenant who was believed “to be organizing al Qaida resources to carry out attacks on American targets.”
  • the fourth ranking member of al Qaeda behind Bin Laden, Ayman al-Zawahiri, and Muhamed Atef.
  • someone who knew the identities of “thousands” of terrorists that passed through al Qaeda training camps in Afghanistan
  • a colleague of Richard Reid, the shoe-bomber.
  • one of bin Laden’s top planners of terrorist operations who knew of al Qaeda plots and cells.
  • the “connection between bin Laden and many of al-Qaida’s operational cells.”
  • the source of information that UAL Flight 93 was intended to hit the White House.

Because we now know that Zubaydah was never an al Qaeda operative, or even an al Qaeda associate, we are forced into the stunning realization that all of this was false. The questions that should arise from that realization include: How much of what we know about al Qaeda, and how much of the War on Terror, was built on the torture testimony of a man who clearly could not have known anything about al Qaeda at all? [We've already documented that Cheney, Rumsfeld and the boys are guilty of war crimes for falsely using 9/11 as a justification for the Iraq war, and noted that Cheney admits that he lied about 9/11.]




But as we know now, the CIA reportedly told Abu Zubaydah during his interrogation that they discovered he was not an al-Qaeda fighter, partner, or even a member. Still, KSM and Bin Alshibh were caught and tortured too.




Given the apparent “mistakes” related to Zubaydah being represented as an al Qaeda leader, there appears to be some serious revision required in the official account of 9/11. However, realistically, at this late date the information attributed to Zubaydah cannot likely be untangled from the official myth behind the War on Terror and the associated actions of the U.S. government. That’s because the torture of Zubaydah was used in support of unprecedented policy changes and actions.

  • President Bush personally used the perceived value of Zubaydah’s capture and torture to justify the use of the CIA’s torture techniques as well as the detention of suspects in secret CIA prisons around the world.
  • The U.S. government used the questionable intelligence obtained from Zubaydah in order to justify the invasion of Iraq. Officials stated that the allegations that Iraq and al-Qaeda were linked through training people on the use of chemical weapons came from Zubaydah. There was no independent verification of these claims.
  • Zubaydah’s torture testimony was also used to justify the use of military tribunals, moving the trial of alleged al Qaeda suspects out of the open civil courts. President Bush asked Congress in a speech in September 2006 to formulate special rules in order to try Abu Zubaydah via military commission in Guantanamo Bay. In fact, in late April 2002 less than one month after Abu Zubaydah’s capture, Justice Department officials stated Abu Zubaydah “is a near-ideal candidate for a tribunal trial.” Ironically, Zubaydah may be the only leading suspect to never face trial.
  • In addition to justifying the use of illegal torture techniques, the Bush administration used Zubaydah’s capture as justification to accelerate its domestic spying program. The claim was that it would allow quick action on the phone numbers and addresses seized during Zubaydah’s capture.

How can the 9/11 Commission Report stand when one of the main sources for information was crazy, was tortured with a specific technique aimed at extracting false confessions, was never allowed to speak (first or second-hand) to the Commissioners, and was not even affiliated with Al Qaeda or 9/11?

The Other Main Source of Information Was Also Unreliable

The other main source for the Commission – KSM – the self-confessed “mastermind” of 9/11, also confessed to crimes which he could not have committed.

He later said that he gave the interrogators a lot of false information – telling them what he thought they wanted to hear – in an attempt to stop the torture. We also know that he was heavily tortured specifically for the purpose of trying to obtain false information about 9/11 – specifically, that Iraq had something to do with it.

So the two main sources for the 9/11 Commission investigation were wholly unreliable.

Government Cover-Up of Unreliability of Witnesses

Moreover, certain government personnel went to great lengths to cover up how unreliable the information was.

For example, the CIA videotaped the interrogation of 9/11 suspects, falsely told the 9/11 Commission that there were no videotapes or other records of the interrogations, and then illegally destroyed all of the tapes and transcripts of the interrogations.

9/11 Commission co-chairs Thomas Keane and Lee Hamilton wrote:

Those who knew about those videotapes — and did not tell us about them — obstructed our investigation.

The chief lawyer for Guantanamo litigation – Vijay Padmanabhan – said that torture of 9/11 suspects was widespread. And Susan J. Crawford – the senior Pentagon official overseeing the military commissions at Guantánamo – told Bob Woodward:

We tortured Qahtani. His treatment met the legal definition of torture.

Indeed, 90 of the 92 videotapes that the CIA destroyed related to Abu Zubaydah.

Postscript: The 9/11 Commissioners publicly expressed anger at cover ups and obstructions of justice by the government into a real 9/11 investigation:

  • The Commission’s co-chairs said that the CIA (and likely the White House) “obstructed our investigation”
  • The Senior Counsel to the 9/11 Commission (John Farmer) – who led the 9/11 staff’s inquiry – said “At some level of the government, at some point in time…there was an agreement not to tell the truth about what happened“. He also said “I was shocked at how different the truth was from the way it was described …. The tapes told a radically different story from what had been told to us and the public for two years…. This is not spin. This is not true.”

And the Co-Chair of the official Congressional Inquiry Into 9/11 – and former head of the Senate Intelligence Committee – has called for a new 9/11 investigation.

Very high-level intelligence officials have also called the Commission’s findings into doubt:

  • A 27-year CIA veteran, who chaired National Intelligence Estimates and personally delivered intelligence briefings to Presidents Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush, their Vice Presidents, Secretaries of State, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and many other senior government officials, and who has for years been a tireless anti-war advocate and critic of imperial foreign policy (Raymond McGovern) said “I think at simplest terms, there’s a cover-up. The 9/11 Report is a joke”
  • Former Deputy Secretary for Intelligence and Warning under Nixon, Ford, and Carter (Morton Goulder), former Deputy Director to the White House Task Force on Terrorism (Edward L. Peck), and former US Department of State Foreign Service Officer (J. Michael Springmann), as well as a who’s who of liberals and independents) jointly call for a new investigation into 9/11
  • Former Federal Prosecutor, Office of Special Investigations, U.S. Department of Justice under Presidents Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan; former U.S. Army Intelligence officer, and currently a widely-sought media commentator on terrorism and intelligence services (John Loftus) says “The information provided by European intelligence services prior to 9/11 was so extensive that it is no longer possible for either the CIA or FBI to assert a defense of incompetence”

Some other examples of obstruction of justice into the 9/11 investigation include:

  • An FBI informant hosted and rented a room to two hijackers in 2000. Specifically, investigators for the Congressional Joint Inquiry discovered that an FBI informant had hosted and even rented a room to two hijackers in 2000 and that, when the Inquiry sought to interview the informant, the FBI refused outright, and then hid him in an unknown location, and that a high-level FBI official stated these blocking maneuvers were undertaken under orders from the White House. As the New York Times notes:

    Senator Bob Graham, the Florida Democrat who is a former chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, accused the White House on Tuesday of covering up evidence ….The accusation stems from the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s refusal to allow investigators for a Congressional inquiry and the independent Sept. 11 commission to interview an informant, Abdussattar Shaikh, who had been the landlord in San Diego of two Sept. 11 hijackers.

  • The chairs of both the 9/11 Commission and the Official Congressional Inquiry into 9/11 said that Soviet-style government “minders” obstructed the investigation into 9/11 by intimidating witnesses
  • The 9/11 Commissioners concluded that officials from the Pentagon lied to the Commission, and considered recommending criminal charges for such false statements
  • As reported by ACLU, FireDogLake, RawStory and many others, declassified documents shows that Senior Bush administration officials sternly cautioned the 9/11 Commission against probing too deeply into the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001



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Element's picture

In 2035 the complicit media will still be trying to paint "The War On Terror" as something real, a momentous global turning-point of hystoric consequences, as opposed to a shameless and profoundly insane serious of global crimes by Western Govts, enabled by the global media.

There's only one Earth with one "global media audience", and a very large chunk of that audience knows that the so called "9-11", and "The War on Terror" were contrived operations designed to create wars, and constitute major war-crimes against humanity, committed with extensive pre-meditation by the Govt of George W Bush, and supported with the willing complicity of Govts of criminally-culpable "Allied powers".

Thank you for the both-barrels article GW.

Clashfan's picture

Good piece, GW. Lots of good comments on the thread, too. Lots.

Thanks, folks. It made my day. Seriously.



blindman's picture

neo cons on going.

guilty of mass murder
walking free
running the
scenes of
the crimes

TNTARG's picture

It took 11 years to write about what we knew (here in the "developing world") since day 1?

NuYawkFrankie's picture

The 911 Commission Report -

A Tale Told by Knaves, for Knuckleheads.

shovelhead's picture

I'm pretty sure if I saw the battery cables coming to clamp on my testicles, I would indict anyone including Jesus, his mom and dad and his children.

Even his dog.

I would definely not be a reliable witness.


rsnoble's picture

I'm more interested in who and how blew up bldg #7 vs the supposed terrorist torture subject.

There's reasons the gov't wants the guns.  I wake up every day knowing our own fucking gov't is behind this shit. 

Seer's picture

Clearly the story of Bldg 7 doesn't hold up (yeah, pun kind of intended).  BUT...

Let's force it all out and simple.  Strap Cheney to an electric chair and have it activated if it senses a lie, ask him why he gave stand-down orders.  NEVER has the US air defense NOT reacted to air traffic with turned off responders and flying off flight path/plan.  If Cheney is willing to die for a lie then all the rest of them ought to step up and do the same.  Plenty of young well-meaning individuals gave their lives on foreign soil to the lie (unknowingly).

Ignatius's picture

"Strap Cheney to an electric chair and have it activated if it senses a lie, ask him why he gave stand-down orders."

Clear violations of the 5th (self incrimination) and the 8th (cruel punishments) Amendments to the Constitution.

The case has been and can be made without extorting a confession via torture.  Fuck, that's what they do.

All Risk No Reward's picture

Just visit David Chandler's Youtube Channel and watch a high school physics teach completely deconstruct the fallacy that is the government's official narrative:


If you want to get off to a quick start...

What a Gravity-Driven Demolition Looks Like


Downward Acceleration of the North Tower


WTC7: NIST Finally Admits Freefall (Part I)


WTC7: NIST Finally Admits Freefall (Part II)


WTC7: NIST Finally Admits Freefall (Part III)


Clocking WTC7(NIST caught lying)


WTC 7: Sound Evidence for Explosions


Cutter Charges in the North Tower of the World Trade Center


This is science at work people - something NIST didn't want to go near...  for what should be obvious reasons.

Joaquin's picture

+99 for you. The giant elephant sitting in the corner of the room.  The moment I start believing anything coming out of Washington or the press, I think about building 7 and the illusion disappears.

dot_bust's picture

I think that one of the biggest holes in the official government explanation of 9/11 is the whole box cutter story. The government would have us believe that a few Arabic men armed only with Wal-Mart box cutters were able to hijack four different passenger planes on 9/11.

Does anyone believe that it's possible to hijack a plane with only box cutters? That tall tale doesn't pass the smell test. In fact, it's downright retarded. Since time immemorial, no one's ever been able to hijack a plane with anything less than a machine gun.

StarTedStackin''s picture

You are an idiot to say Obama is as bad or worse than Bush, and that pretty much proves you are a Partisan LIAR.


Partisan  Liars who have to start off their article by claiming not to be partisan liars are pathetic.

F'Off Partisan Liar!

All Risk No Reward's picture

Star, while you probably have no idea why your complaint has some truth to it, I'd like to point it out.

Obama isn't worse than Bush.  Bush isn't worse than Obama.

That's like saying Ted Bundy's left hand was worse than his right hand.

Or the left knight is worse than the right knight on the chess board.  Uh, no.  The GRAND CHESS MASTER is dangerous, not the pieces he plays on the GRAND CHESS BOARD!

Obama is Bush as Bush is Obama - they work for Biggest Finance Capital and they take orders.  THEY ARE THE EXACT SAME THING IN DIFFERENT "SUITS."

When Biggest Finance Capital tells Obama they are going to run some kind of black ops false flag on the American people, what's Obama gonna do?

Play his role, that's what.

Come on GeoRge, stop letting the establishment manipulate your communication such that it false under the false narrative.

Socrates meditated on words and tried to figure out how they could be abused to sow confusion and deceit.  We have to do the same!

We have to tell the truth, as revolutionary as it sounds.

“When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain.”
~ Napoleon Bonaparte

“We say in our platform that we believe that the right to coin money and issue money is a function of government. We believe it. We believe it is a part of sovereignty…  Those who are opposed to this proposition tell us that the issue of paper money is a function of the bank and that the government ought to go out of the banking business. I stand with Jefferson rather than with them, and tell them, as he did, that the issue of money is a function of the government and that the banks should go out of the governing business.  When we have restored the money of the Constitution, all other necessary reforms will be possible, and that until that is done there is no reform that can be accomplished.”
~William Jennings Bryan, Cross of Gold Speech

"All the perplexities, confusion and distress in America arise not from defects in their Constitution or Confederation, nor from want of honor or virtue, so much as downright ignorance of the nature of coin, credit, and circulation."
~John Adams

"If all the bank loans were paid, no one could have a bank deposit, and there would not be a dollar of coin or currency in circulation. This is a staggering thought. We are completely dependent on the commercial Banks. Someone has to borrow every dollar we have in circulation, cash or credit. If the Banks create ample synthetic money we are prosperous; if not, we starve. We are absolutely without a permanent money system. When one gets a complete grasp of the picture, the tragic absurdity of our hopeless position is almost incredible, but there it is. It is the most important subject intelligent persons can investigate and reflect upon. It is so important that our present civilization may collapse unless it becomes widely understood and the
defects remedied very soon."
~Robert Hemphill - In the foreword to a book by Irving Fisher, entitled 100% Money (1935)

“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning. The one aim of these financiers is world control by the creation of inextinguishable debt.”
~Henry Ford

"The youth who can solve the money question will do more for the world than all the professional soldiers of history."
~Henry Ford Sr.

The whole point of being able to think is to grasp reality and deal with it.  This monetary fraud is real and the abuses that arise from it are real.  If we don't identify the ultimate human predator class, the money definer / creator class and their method of operation, it will continue to operate until their objectives are achieved.

My hope is that you review this material and share it with your audience and your other contacts.  For those that value freedom and want to maintain it, I believe this is the current endpoint of free thinking and people need to take action against this incarnation of  Sun Tzu's Art of War methodologies being implemented through financial fraud.  Quite literally, the world is being slayed by 5th grade math.

I could go on and on and on - I have lots of resources to share if either of you are interested.   You can save the thousand hours or so I've spent digging deep into this topic and get just the cream off the top.  I know my future and my family's future depends on uprooting the Debt Money Tyrants and we all depend on each other to identify them and develop positive ways of resistance and spreading the word to an ever larger audience.

"Let us disappoint the Men [and women] who are raising themselves upon the ruin of this Country."
~John Adams

Herkimer Jerkimer's picture




So I guess, logically, there are three other 'truths' for you, since you equate Obama is bad or worse than Bush = You are a Partisan LIAR.


You back this up by the statement by stating that if you start by denying that you are a partisan liars, you must be a partisan liar.


This is a logical fallacy, called "circular reasoning" and is often the error of a rank amatuer in debating, laying out his position in such a manner.


So, you must acknowledge, considering your statements that Obama is worse than Bush = You are a partisan liar that…


Bush is worse than Obama = You ARE a partisan LIAR.


Bush is worse than Obama = You are NOT a partisan LIAR.


No one shall make a claim that either is worse than the other.


Please pick one, as I cannot follow your logic.



rwe2late's picture


GW's comment was obviously chiefly directed at those who falsely and illogically interpret any condemnation of Bush as an exoneration of Obama.

GW claim of not being partisan (Democrat vs. Republican) was based on his referenced evidence that Obama has been worse in many ways than was Bush.

Any suggestion that Obama could be as malevolent as Bush, even when offered evidence, is usually too much to rationally handle within the compartmentalized beliefs held by Obamaphiles.

kliguy38's picture

Ted.....NO one rises to the level of Congress without being "thoroughly vetted" by the true Power that has manipulated your life since kindergarten. Of course you view yourself as a "free thinker" with the ability to see the "truth". gl Ted and keep on hating the "liberals" or the "right wing" or whatever.......they create the "divisions"...hehehehe

covert's picture

you guys have no idea what REAL torture is. force the prisoners to marry my ex mistress, that's REAL torture.


Freedomtosayno's picture

Son, he is a creature of the CIA, a waterboy of the Establishment, a 3rd, 4th term of your buddy the Bush clan, etc. Anyone who bucks the Establishment gets shot by a "lone" gunman...  Grow up or are you a paid shill for the false left/right statist paradigm?

JustObserving's picture

In his autobiography, Dreams from My Father, Obama fails to mention that his first job out of college was to work for Business International Corporation, a CIA front company.  One can forgive him for forgetting that insignificant detail which would have affected his worldwide popularity:

The Story of Obama: All in The Company (Part I)

Investigative journalist Wayne Madsen has discovered CIA files that document the agency’s connections to institutions and individuals figuring prominently in the lives of Barack Obama and his mother, father, grandmother, and stepfather. The first part of his report highlights the connections between Barack Obama, Sr. and the CIA-sponsored operations in Kenya to counter rising Soviet and Chinese influence among student circles and, beyond, to create conditions obstructing the emergence of independent African leaders.

President Obama’s own work in 1983 for Business International Corporation, a CIA front that conducted seminars with the world’s most powerful leaders and used journalists as agents abroad, dovetails with CIA espionage activities conducted by his mother, Stanley Ann Dunham in 1960s post-coup Indonesia on behalf of a number of CIA front operations, including the East-West Center at the University of Hawaii, the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID), and the Ford Foundation. Dunham met and married Lolo Soetoro, Obama’s stepfather, at the East-West Center in 1965. Soetoro was recalled to Indonesia in 1965 to serve as a senior army officer and assist General Suharto and the CIA in the bloody overthrow of President Sukarno.



Seer's picture

Didn't GW Bush also work for BIC?  Seems I heard this before...

blindman's picture

Thomas Drake, a former senior executive at the National Security Agency (NSA) who was charged under the espionage act after he highlighted waste, fraud and illegal activity at the intelligence agency, spoke at a National Press ..
Chill With Dave

falak pema's picture

There are great players of chess; those who know how to corner your king, make him traverse the chessboard step by step in a death march that puts him in check at each instant with the outcome spelt out, as he careens across the board to the opposite side to end up mated and obliterated; no issue other than that possible, but the game is two sided and FAIR.

The maestra of opponent programs his demise like in Ludwig Van B's "Marcia funebre" movement of Heroic Symphony.

And then there are the cheating shills, who sit on Capitol hill all dressed in imperial Purple.

Who play chess on both sides of the table and preprogram your demise like Inquistorial torturers who won't accept debate and factual truths, just pride and prejudice that hides the even playing field of justice.

They have programmed your death march from beforehand and its inevitable as its what the Matrix requires. All else is redundant and you die upon command; your trial is Kafkaian and the judges take their orders from high above; not by due process of law but by Command performance of rulers of the Matrix. 

It ain't no lost Arc of Noah, this construct, its the Raft of the Medusa.

mendigo's picture

It seems like an extention of standard government practice of enforcement which is laregely not about truth or justice and is sometimes used to promote a policy or personal agenda. But we accept and even encourage this behavior in our desire for action and diversion.

Its not conspiracy just manifistation of ignorance and the pathological nature of government.

mendigo's picture

It was fairly apparent I thought from the outset that the Bush administration used the 911 attack to implement a scheme to attack an. essentially unrelated target. The testimony by particulary the secretary of state was lame and soon found to be almost completely wrong and probably fabricated. I suspect it was humiliating and he was coerced to make this testamony. Yet something like 90% of the legislature and 90% of the public supportted the decision to attack Iraq. It was an act of pure vigilaintism and largely self defeating and appears it will end upbeing a wasted effort and counter productive. As one would expect from bush it was pretty much the most backward and incompetent act by a national leader in modern history. It is a story of incompetence and prejudice mixed with unfounded pride - we are all guilty of being passive observers of this historic crime. The us has clearly gone off the rails and thier is no one to blame but ourselves. Bush was clearly incompetent from the outset.

ozzzo's picture

It's far from obvious that Bush was incompetent. He accomplished a lot in 8 years. It's extremely likely that Bush was the "bad cop" to Obama's "good cop." Together they transformed a somewhat corrupt democracy into a fascist police state in 16 years. Not bad for an incompetent and a socialist.

All Risk No Reward's picture

Exactly - and the repetitive sophistry of using false terms guide people's perceptions into believing absolute absurdities...

That's why more and more of us have to use the correct terms.

Communism and capitalism don't exist - what does exist are different forms of authoritarian rule from the top down.

Now that's a concept that the authoritarian rulers don't want going mainstream!

Seer's picture
“Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who
makes her laws” - Mayer Amschel Rothschild
All Risk No Reward's picture

"Give me control of the nation's volcabulary and I will have my victims confused and financing me, the Biggest Finance Capital Bad, to destroy them."

DO NOT let the social engineers use the media to control your vocabulary.  ACTIVATE COGNITION and develop a paradigm based upon reality, not some pre-packaged Big Finance Capital sponsored false narrative.

Learn the Trivium.  Learn the logical fallacies.  Actively search for contradictions.  Reality has no contradictions and isn't propped up by fallacies.

Troy Ounce's picture




Thomas Drake, a former senior executive at the National Security Agency (NSA) who was charged under the espionage act after he highlighted waste, fraud and illegal activity at the intelligence agency, spoke at a National Press Club Luncheon about the national intelligence community and its attitude towards whistle-blowing.


kaiserhoff's picture

A big part of adult behavior is simply putting away childish things.


All Risk No Reward's picture

Are you implying that the application of the scientific method is childish...


...and that being an establishment gobemouche is mature?

Colonial Intent's picture


Cui Bono?

MIC and all their bought and paid for apologists.

They already had the capability all it required was the intent.

Even the little things dont add up, the explosion in the lobby, security firm pulls dog sniffing patrols and 24hr guards a month before attacks, jet fuel melting steel, WT7, Laws of gravity, dead firefighters audio, etc etc


All Risk No Reward's picture

The MIC is a chess piece.

Biggest Finance Capital is the GRAND CHESS MASTER playing on their GRAND CHESS BOARD.

Identify the true enemy or else you will be cuttinig branches instead of the root.

Disenchanted's picture




"9/11 Commission Deceived: An Unintentional Work of Fiction Based on Cheney’s Torture Program"


I would argue with that one highlighted word...


9/11 commissioners now: "we wuz deceived!"

me: bullshit! you were all in on the game from the start, that's why each and every one of you were picked for the job.

Colonial Intent's picture

I thought bush was the messiah for most ZH readers, looks like GW is trolling to me.

All Risk No Reward's picture

You didn't "think" that.  You had an establishment programmed emotional response to a group of people who tend not to like Obama fronting for the real societal rullers - Biggest Finance Capital.

They are the group that defines money and runs Debt Money Tyranny


They are also the one's that wrote the Federal Reserve Act "law" that has no penalties (it is propaganda concealed by both Biggest Finance Capital controlled parties) and criminally blew the world's largest credit bubble that is in the process of collapsing:


How to be a Crook


Nicole Foss on Finance and Bubbles


A Tribute to the Automatic Earth


They are already looting bank accounts of commoners in order to prop up the Euro (NOT HYPERINFLATING THE DEBT MONEY AWAY, which is impossible until the debt face is discarded - and that's their main weapon against the people right now)

Cyprus Nails Depositors


Colonial Intent's picture

" a group of people who tend not to like Obama fronting for the real societal rulers - Biggest Finance Capital."

You just described the entire occupy movement.

Was that intentional?

All Risk No Reward's picture

Colonial, what is "The Occupy Movement?"

Is it what the media portrays?

Is it what the people who attend think it is?  If so, which people because there are a lot of views that differ among the people that attended Occupy events.

Is it what "management" says it is?

What is it?

I'm not big on groups of anythng because a group can easily be co-opted with cash and then where is the group?  The Republicans, the democrats and even the libertraians have all been co-opted by the cash.

That's why I align myself to values...  which can't be bribed.

Some people who attended Occupy were very sophisticated thinkers who understood the system much the same way I do.  The really grasped Debt Money Tyranny and how the entire system - including polcitics, education, media, religious, government, etc... - supported this fraud.

Other people were literally insane.  Others were establishment pre-programmed robots who could only wrap their mind around the simplest of concepts portrayed int he fake media.

The brain washed "liberal" talking point contingent could be accused of fronting for Biggest Finance Capital's government chess piece, but these people have no real idea regarding what is ruling society.  They think we have a democracy, instead of a Republic, they think we can vote away liberties divinely or naturall bewstowed on humans.  They see the government as their wealth transfer machine and literally have no idea the government is transferring wealth from them to the likes of Warren "$1 billion Bersrkshire tax cheat" Buffett.

The description applies to some in the Occupy movement, but by no means all.

Don't let the Biggest Finance Capital partisan Vichy media completely construct your paradigm - because they are masters of divide in order to conquer... you and I and everyone else who falls for their deceptions.

BTW, many libertarians front for Bigggest Finance Capital in a similar way, except it is mega coporate worship instead of mega government worship.

Lew Rockwell is out pimping Amazon as a 'great company" and all that jazz - as though he doesn't understand the very same people who are waging war on him through government and who set up Debt Money Tyranny also own and control Amazon.

I like most of Lew's stuff, but his understanding is limited in this area and he should be telling people to support local businesses and shut Biggest Finance Capital front corporations down

I don't think he understands the mechanics of Debt Money Tyranny:


So Rockwell is fronting, likely through ignorance, for Biggest Finance Capital as well.  He's arming them with dollars, and recommending you do the same, so that the debts owed by society will be even more unpayable.

This Matrix is really deceptive if one isn't ACTIVELY engaged to deconstruct it.

My point is that the the only two groups that really matter at this point are:

1. The debt money definer and and controller class and, by extension, the sycophants who keep the system up and running.

2. Everyone else.

I would put for that "everyone else" either finds a way to identify the real enemy and defeat it or else the divide phase of the Biggest Finance Capital asymmetrical financial oriented military operation will end and the conquer phase will go into high gear.

That's reality, so far as my present analysis reveals - and you won't hear that many places because reality isn't good for the paychecks of the social engineers.

WTFx10's picture

"I thought bush was the messiah for most ZH readers"

Then you are retarded, as most ZH readers think all the puppets work for the real power and it ain't in Washington. So you better go think of something else.



Colonial Intent's picture

Yet ZH'ers still go on about nationality and religion like its still relevant rather than just a CON TRICK to control your thoughts and inhibit your actions.

The real power is transnational, flags and jeebus are just ways of controlling the masses for profit.

Its nice that you are learning, but dont think its just a US problem.

And welcome to the struggle, we been preaching against it since bush 1 arrived but better you be on hand with ten men than late with ten thousand.

WTFx10's picture

Because I said "Washington " u thought and i use that term loosely I meant the real power was in the USA?

Like I said before your a fuckin retard.

Colonial Intent's picture

You must be one of the 5% who can find iraq on a map, well done.

JamesBond's picture

Biden's calling for you -  needs his dry cleaning picked up.  Get back to your desk you fuckin DNC troll



Colonial Intent's picture

Interesting how you still think in two-party terms.

JB, i'm on the other side of the pond, its just funny how the right are now saying the same shit the left were saying during bush, still if it keeps the muggles divided while they steal their shit then all power to the two party system.

Thats just my view from over here at Airstrip one.

Vendetta's picture

There is a lot of that 2 party finger pointing going on at ZH with most common being in 1 direction if one observes without bias.  When finger pointing in the other direction happens that may be fairly direct there is often a prolific attack of that commenter with negative ratings and a plethora of crtical comments.  It is though a significant, if not majority, percentage of readership is still very much lost in the good cop/bad cop act created on the political stage all the while claiming they are not lost in a political wilderness created especially for them.

Dr. Sandi's picture

You would be mistaken about the level of love for GWB on this site. Or pretty much any authority figure except maybe Honey Boo Boo.

When you're in the bottom of the shithouse, all the assholes above you look pretty much the same.

Peter Pan's picture

GW, I just want you to know that I am book marking your post. I will read it again and again and then some more whenever I start to think that government is acting in the interests of its people.

At the same time, I am feeling an anger for what has been perpetrated on the people of the USA by its own government. The lies upon which the government has sought to build its case for all subsequent acts of inhumanity is proof enough that truth in the USA has been manipulated in everything to do with war, money, markets, self interest and politics.

If God is listening, he needs to act like never before.

If there are still heroes and patriots amongst the people of the USA they need to rise before their great nation sinks under the great weight and veil of evil that has overshadowed their nation.

I am not an American, but the outcome of this evil will be visited upon all of us unless something happens to break this evil grip of psychopaths.