Preface: This is not a partisan post. We have repeatedly documented that Obama is as bad or worse than the Bush administration.
In the run up to the Iraq war – and for several years thereafter – the program of torture carried out by the Bush administration was specifically specifically aimed at establishing a false justification for war. Dick Cheney is the guy who pushed for torture, pressured the Justice Department lawyers to write memos saying torture was legal, and made the pitch to Congress justifying torture. (The former director of the CIA said Cheney oversaw American torture policies).
The type of torture used by the U.S. on the Guantanamo suspects is of a special type. Senator Levin revealed that the the U.S. used Communist torture techniques specifically aimed at creating false confessions (see this, this, this and this).
According to NBC News:
- Much of the 9/11 Commission Report was based upon the testimony of people who were tortured
- At least four of the people whose interrogation figured in the 9/11 Commission Report have claimed that they told interrogators information as a way to stop being “tortured.”
- One of the Commission’s main sources of information was tortured until he agreed to sign a confession that he was not even allowed to read
- The 9/11 Commission itself doubted the accuracy of the torture confessions, and yet kept their doubts to themselves
In fact, the 9/11 Commission Report was largely based on third-hand accounts of what tortured detainees said, with two of the three parties in the communication being government employees.
As the 9/11 Commission Report itself states:
Chapters 5 and 7 rely heavily on information obtained from captured al Qaeda members. A number of these “detainees” have firsthand knowledge of the 9/11 plot. Assessing the truth of statements by these witnesses-sworn enemies of the United States-is challenging. Our access to them has been limited to the review of intelligence reports based on communications received from the locations where the actual interrogations take place. We submitted questions for use in the interrogations, but had no control over whether, when, or how questions of particular interest would be asked. Nor were we allowed to talk to the interrogators so that we could better judge the credibility of the detainees and clarify ambiguities in the reporting.
In other words, the 9/11 Commissioners were not allowed to speak with the detainees, or even their interrogators. Instead, they got their information third-hand.
The Commission didn’t really trust the interrogation testimony. For example, one of the primary architects of the 9/11 Commission Report – Ernest May – said in May 2005:
We never had full confidence in the interrogation reports as historical sources.
New York Times investigative reporter Philip Shenon Newsweek noted in a 2009 essay in Newsweek that the 9/11 Commission Report was unreliable because most of the information was based on the statements of tortured detainees:
The commission appears to have ignored obvious clues throughout 2003 and 2004 that its account of the 9/11 plot and Al Qaeda’s history relied heavily on information obtained from detainees who had been subjected to torture, or something not far from it.
The panel raised no public protest over the CIA’s interrogation methods, even though news reports at the time suggested how brutal those methods were. In fact, the commission demanded that the CIA carry out new rounds of interrogations in 2004 to get answers to its questions.
That has troubling implications for the credibility of the commission’s final report. In intelligence circles, testimony obtained through torture is typically discredited; research shows that people will say anything under threat of intense physical pain. [That's what top military interrogators say.]
And yet it is a distinct possibility that Al Qaeda suspects who were the exclusive source of information for long passages of the commission’s report may have been subjected to “enhanced” interrogation techniques, or at least threatened with them, because of the 9/11 Commission….
Information from CIA interrogations of two of the three—KSM and Abu Zubaydah—is cited throughout two key chapters of the panel’s report focusing on the planning and execution of the attacks and on the history of Al Qaeda. [Remember the names "KSM" and "Abu Zubaydah" - we'll get back to them below.]
Footnotes in the panel’s report indicate when information was obtained from detainees interrogated by the CIA. An analysis by NBC News found that more than a quarter of the report’s footnotes—441 of some 1,700—referred to detainees who were subjected to the CIA’s “enhanced” interrogation program, including the trio who were waterboarded.
Commission members note that they repeatedly pressed the Bush White House and CIA for direct access to the detainees, but the administration refused. So the commission forwarded questions to the CIA, whose interrogators posed them on the panel’s behalf.
The commission’s report gave no hint that harsh interrogation methods were used in gathering information, stating that the panel had “no control” over how the CIA did its job; the authors also said they had attempted to corroborate the information “with documents and statements of others.”
But how could the commission corroborate information known only to a handful of people in a shadowy terrorist network, most of whom were either dead or still at large?
Former senator Bob Kerrey of Nebraska, a Democrat on the commission [one of the 9/11 Commissioners], told me last year he had long feared that the investigation depended too heavily on the accounts of Al Qaeda detainees who were physically coerced into talking. …
The Washington Post documents that Abu Zubaydah was literally crazy – as he head suffered a serious head injury years before 9/11 – and that the FBI agent involved in interrogating Abu Zubaydah and reviewing documents at his house (Daniel Coleman) said that everyone knew that Abu Zubaydah was an unreliable source for information.
This is confirmed by the the New Yorker. Pulitzer Prize winning journalist Ron Suskind writes that interrogator Coleman advised a top FBI official at the time:
“This guy is insane, certifiable, split personality.”
Indeed, the government has since backed away from all claims that Abu Zubaydah had any role in Al Qaeda or 9/11. For example – in September 2009 – the U.S. government admitted in writing in a court proceeding that Abu Zubaydah had never been a member or associate or supporter of al-Qaeda, was not involved in 9/11, and had no prior knowledge of 9/11:
The Government has not contended in this proceeding that Petitioner [Abu Zubaydah] was a member of al-Qaida or otherwise formally identified with al-Qaida.
Respondent [The United States Government] does not contend that Petitioner was a “member” of al-Qaida in the sense of having sworn a bayat (allegiance) or having otherwise satisfied any formal criteria that either Petitioner or al-Qaida may have considered necessary for inclusion in al-Qaida. Nor is the Government detaining Petitioner based on any allegation that Petitioner views himself as part of al-Qaida as a matter of subjective personal conscience, ideology, or worldview.
The Government has not contended in this proceeding that Petitioner had any direct role in or advance knowledge of the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001.
***
The Government has not contended that Petitioner had any personal involvement in planning or executing either the 1998 embassy bombings… or the attacks on September 11, 2001.
Kevin Ryan – who has interviewed 9/11 Commissioner Lee Hamilton, Abu Zubaydah’s attorney and other knowledgeable people – documents how central Abu Zubaydah is to the 9/11 Commission Report (footnotes omitted; see original for documentation)
The 9/11 Commission (falsely) called Zubaydah an “al Qaeda lieutenant.” The Joint Congressional inquiry did the same, calling him “al-Qa’ida leader Abu Zubaydah,” and the “Bin Ladin lieutenant captured in March 2002.” As late as 2006, the Justice Department’s Inspector General report on the 9/11 attacks called Zubaydah a “Bin Laden lieutenant.”
When Zubaydah was captured, in March 2002, U.S. government officials touted him as the biggest catch of the War on Terror, at least until the capture of Khalid Sheik Mohammed (KSM). FBI Director Robert Mueller stated that Zubaydah’s capture would help deter future attacks. White House spokesman Ari Fleischer said that Zubaydah could provide a treasure-trove of information about al-Qaeda. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld claimed that Zubaydah was “a man who knows of additional attacks”, who has “trained people to do this”, and was a big fish who had a fountain of knowledge.
The extensive allegations against Zubaydah went on and on, and included that he was:
- along with KSM, one of “Al Qaeda’s top operational managers” – “Counterterrorism Czar”Richard Clarke, in his book Against All Enemies
- “sinister” and “there is evidence that he is a planner and a manager as well. I think he’s a major player.” – Former State Department director of counter-terrorism, Michael Sheehan
- “extremely dangerous” and a planner of 9/11. – State Department legal advisor John B. Bellinger III in a June 2007 briefing.
- a trainer, a recruiter, understood bomb-making, was a forger, a logistician, and someone who made things happen, and made “al-Qaeda function.” – Former CIA station chief, Bob Grenier
- “a close associate of UBL’s [i.e. Bin Laden], and if not the number two, very close to the number two person in the organization. I think that’s well established.” -Donald Rumsfeld
- “a very senior al Qaeda official who has been intimately involved in a range of activities for the al Qaeda.” – Donald Rumsfeld
- a “very senior al Qaeda operative.” – Donald Rumsfeld
- a “key terrorist recruiter and operational planner and member of Osama bin Laden’s inner circle.” – White House spokesman Ari Fleischer
- someone whose capture was a “very serious blow” to al-Qaeda and therefore one of al-Qaeda’s “many tentacles” was “cut off.” – White House spokesman Ari Fleischer
- “one of the top operatives plotting and planning death and destruction on the United States.” –President George W. Bush
- “one of al-Qaeda’s top leaders” who was “spending a lot of time as one of the top operating officials of al Qaeda, plotting and planning murder.” –President George W. Bush
- “al Qaeda’s chief of operations.” – President George W. Bush
- “one of the top three leaders” in al-Qaeda. – President George W. Bush
- someone whose interrogation “led to reliable information”, a “prolific producer” of information, with whom originated roughly 25 percent of the information on al Qaeda that came from human sources. – [National Security Agency Director] Michael Hayden
- one of three individuals “best positioned to know about impending terrorist atrocities.” – Michael Hayden
As the myth of Zubaydah grew, it was reported that he was –
- “worth a ton of guys at Gitmo.”
- a “senior bin Laden official” and the “former head of Egypt-based Islamic Jihad.”
- “played a key role in the East Africa embassy attacks.”
- listed as a “trusted aide” to bin Laden with “growing power.”
- in control of al-Qaeda.
- an aide of bin Laden who ran training camps in Afghanistan and “coordinated terror cells in Europe and North America.”
- a “key terrorist recruiter, operational planner, and member of Osama Bin Laden’s inner circle.”
- “bin Laden’s CEO”, and “a central figure in Al Qaeda”
- Bin Laden’s “travel planner.”
- “one of a handful of men entrusted with running the terrorism network in the event of Osama bin Laden’s death or capture.”
- a senior bin Laden lieutenant who was believed “to be organizing al Qaida resources to carry out attacks on American targets.”
- the fourth ranking member of al Qaeda behind Bin Laden, Ayman al-Zawahiri, and Muhamed Atef.
- someone who knew the identities of “thousands” of terrorists that passed through al Qaeda training camps in Afghanistan
- a colleague of Richard Reid, the shoe-bomber.
- one of bin Laden’s top planners of terrorist operations who knew of al Qaeda plots and cells.
- the “connection between bin Laden and many of al-Qaida’s operational cells.”
- the source of information that UAL Flight 93 was intended to hit the White House.
Because we now know that Zubaydah was never an al Qaeda operative, or even an al Qaeda associate, we are forced into the stunning realization that all of this was false. The questions that should arise from that realization include: How much of what we know about al Qaeda, and how much of the War on Terror, was built on the torture testimony of a man who clearly could not have known anything about al Qaeda at all? [We've already documented that Cheney, Rumsfeld and the boys are guilty of war crimes for falsely using 9/11 as a justification for the Iraq war, and noted that Cheney admits that he lied about 9/11.]
***
But as we know now, the CIA reportedly told Abu Zubaydah during his interrogation that they discovered he was not an al-Qaeda fighter, partner, or even a member. Still, KSM and Bin Alshibh were caught and tortured too.
***
Given the apparent “mistakes” related to Zubaydah being represented as an al Qaeda leader, there appears to be some serious revision required in the official account of 9/11. However, realistically, at this late date the information attributed to Zubaydah cannot likely be untangled from the official myth behind the War on Terror and the associated actions of the U.S. government. That’s because the torture of Zubaydah was used in support of unprecedented policy changes and actions.
- President Bush personally used the perceived value of Zubaydah’s capture and torture to justify the use of the CIA’s torture techniques as well as the detention of suspects in secret CIA prisons around the world.
- The U.S. government used the questionable intelligence obtained from Zubaydah in order to justify the invasion of Iraq. Officials stated that the allegations that Iraq and al-Qaeda were linked through training people on the use of chemical weapons came from Zubaydah. There was no independent verification of these claims.
- Zubaydah’s torture testimony was also used to justify the use of military tribunals, moving the trial of alleged al Qaeda suspects out of the open civil courts. President Bush asked Congress in a speech in September 2006 to formulate special rules in order to try Abu Zubaydah via military commission in Guantanamo Bay. In fact, in late April 2002 less than one month after Abu Zubaydah’s capture, Justice Department officials stated Abu Zubaydah “is a near-ideal candidate for a tribunal trial.” Ironically, Zubaydah may be the only leading suspect to never face trial.
- In addition to justifying the use of illegal torture techniques, the Bush administration used Zubaydah’s capture as justification to accelerate its domestic spying program. The claim was that it would allow quick action on the phone numbers and addresses seized during Zubaydah’s capture.
How can the 9/11 Commission Report stand when one of the main sources for information was crazy, was tortured with a specific technique aimed at extracting false confessions, was never allowed to speak (first or second-hand) to the Commissioners, and was not even affiliated with Al Qaeda or 9/11?
The Other Main Source of Information Was Also Unreliable
The other main source for the Commission – KSM – the self-confessed “mastermind” of 9/11, also confessed to crimes which he could not have committed.
He later said that he gave the interrogators a lot of false information – telling them what he thought they wanted to hear – in an attempt to stop the torture. We also know that he was heavily tortured specifically for the purpose of trying to obtain false information about 9/11 – specifically, that Iraq had something to do with it.
So the two main sources for the 9/11 Commission investigation were wholly unreliable.
Government Cover-Up of Unreliability of Witnesses
Moreover, certain government personnel went to great lengths to cover up how unreliable the information was.
9/11 Commission co-chairs Thomas Keane and Lee Hamilton wrote:
Those who knew about those videotapes — and did not tell us about them — obstructed our investigation.
The chief lawyer for Guantanamo litigation – Vijay Padmanabhan – said that torture of 9/11 suspects was widespread. And Susan J. Crawford – the senior Pentagon official overseeing the military commissions at Guantánamo – told Bob Woodward:
We tortured Qahtani. His treatment met the legal definition of torture.
Indeed, 90 of the 92 videotapes that the CIA destroyed related to Abu Zubaydah.
Postscript: The 9/11 Commissioners publicly expressed anger at cover ups and obstructions of justice by the government into a real 9/11 investigation:
- 9/11 Commission co-chair Lee Hamilton says “I don’t believe for a minute we got everything right”, that the Commission was set up to fail, that people should keep asking questions about 9/11, and that the 9/11 debate should continue
- The 9/11 Commission chair said the Commission was “set up to fail”
- The Commission’s co-chairs said that the CIA (and likely the White House) “obstructed our investigation”
- 9/11 Commissioner Bob Kerrey said that “There are ample reasons to suspect that there may be some alternative to what we outlined in our version . . . We didn’t have access . . . .”
- 9/11 Commissioner Timothy Roemer said “We were extremely frustrated with the false statements we were getting”
- 9/11 Commissioner Max Cleland resigned from the Commission, stating: “It is a national scandal”; “This investigation is now compromised”; and “One of these days we will have to get the full story because the 9-11 issue is so important to America. But this White House wants to cover it up”
- The Senior Counsel to the 9/11 Commission (John Farmer) – who led the 9/11 staff’s inquiry – said “At some level of the government, at some point in time…there was an agreement not to tell the truth about what happened“. He also said “I was shocked at how different the truth was from the way it was described …. The tapes told a radically different story from what had been told to us and the public for two years…. This is not spin. This is not true.”
And the Co-Chair of the official Congressional Inquiry Into 9/11 – and former head of the Senate Intelligence Committee – has called for a new 9/11 investigation.
Very high-level intelligence officials have also called the Commission’s findings into doubt:
- A 27-year CIA veteran, who chaired National Intelligence Estimates and personally delivered intelligence briefings to Presidents Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush, their Vice Presidents, Secretaries of State, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and many other senior government officials, and who has for years been a tireless anti-war advocate and critic of imperial foreign policy (Raymond McGovern) said “I think at simplest terms, there’s a cover-up. The 9/11 Report is a joke”
- A 29-year CIA veteran, former National Intelligence Officer (NIO) and former Director of the CIA’s Office of Regional and Political Analysis (William Bill Christison) said “I now think there is persuasive evidence that the events of September did not unfold as the Bush administration and the 9/11 Commission would have us believe (and see this)
- A number of intelligence officials, including a CIA Operations Officer who co-chaired a CIA multi-agency task force coordinating intelligence efforts among many intelligence and law enforcement agencies (Lynne Larkin) sent a joint letter to Congress expressing their concerns about “serious shortcomings,” “omissions,” and “major flaws” in the 9/11 Commission Report and offering their services for a new investigation (they were ignored)
- A decorated 20-year CIA veteran, who Pulitzer-Prize winning investigative reporter Seymour Hersh called “perhaps the best on-the-ground field officer in the Middle East”, and whose astounding career formed the script for the Academy Award winning motion picture Syriana (Robert Baer) said that “the evidence points at” 9/11 having had aspects of being an inside job
- The Division Chief of the CIA’s Office of Soviet Affairs, who served as Senior Analyst from 1966 – 1990. He also served as Professor of International Security at the National War College from 1986 – 2004 (Melvin Goodman) said “The final [9/11 Commission] report is ultimately a coverup”
- Former Deputy Secretary for Intelligence and Warning under Nixon, Ford, and Carter (Morton Goulder), former Deputy Director to the White House Task Force on Terrorism (Edward L. Peck), and former US Department of State Foreign Service Officer (J. Michael Springmann), as well as a who’s who of liberals and independents) jointly call for a new investigation into 9/11
- Former Federal Prosecutor, Office of Special Investigations, U.S. Department of Justice under Presidents Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan; former U.S. Army Intelligence officer, and currently a widely-sought media commentator on terrorism and intelligence services (John Loftus) says “The information provided by European intelligence services prior to 9/11 was so extensive that it is no longer possible for either the CIA or FBI to assert a defense of incompetence”
- The Group Director on matters of national security in the U.S. Government Accountability Office said that President Bush did not respond to unprecedented warnings of the 9/11 disaster and conducted a massive cover-up instead of accepting responsibility
- Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense under President Ronald Reagan (Col. Ronald D. Ray) said that the official story of 9/11 is “the dog that doesn’t hunt”
- Several key employees for the defense department say that the government covered up their testimony about tracking Mohammed Atta before 9/11
- The former director of the FBI (Louis Freeh) says there was a cover up by the 9/11 Commission
Some other examples of obstruction of justice into the 9/11 investigation include:
- An FBI informant hosted and rented a room to two hijackers in 2000. Specifically, investigators for the Congressional Joint Inquiry discovered that an FBI informant had hosted and even rented a room to two hijackers in 2000 and that, when the Inquiry sought to interview the informant, the FBI refused outright, and then hid him in an unknown location, and that a high-level FBI official stated these blocking maneuvers were undertaken under orders from the White House. As the New York Times notes:
Senator Bob Graham, the Florida Democrat who is a former chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, accused the White House on Tuesday of covering up evidence ….The accusation stems from the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s refusal to allow investigators for a Congressional inquiry and the independent Sept. 11 commission to interview an informant, Abdussattar Shaikh, who had been the landlord in San Diego of two Sept. 11 hijackers.
- The chairs of both the 9/11 Commission and the Official Congressional Inquiry into 9/11 said that Soviet-style government “minders” obstructed the investigation into 9/11 by intimidating witnesses
- The 9/11 Commissioners concluded that officials from the Pentagon lied to the Commission, and considered recommending criminal charges for such false statements
- The tape of interviews of air traffic controllers on-duty on 9/11 was intentionally destroyed by crushing the cassette by hand, cutting the tape into little pieces, and then dropping the pieces in different trash cans around the building as shown by this NY Times article (summary version is free; full version is pay-per-view) and by this article from the Chicago Sun-Times
- As reported by ACLU, FireDogLake, RawStory and many others, declassified documents shows that Senior Bush administration officials sternly cautioned the 9/11 Commission against probing too deeply into the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001



Israelies did the constructon in the Tower building, they did the attoogacks and set up the stooges from Arabville, with the help of the CIA and top level gubbament officials several layers of plausible denial removed. I luv this cesspool..
There was definitely Israeli involvement. Here are police radio transmissions from 9-11 that identify suspects who were found with remote detonators and explosive material in their van. They operated out of a Mossad-fronted company called Urban Moving Systems in New Jersey, and were driving a white van with a mural of the Twin Towers and an airplane crashing into them:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Huf2Kz7bV2k
All coordinated by people who couldn't organize a two car funeral.
But what about big foot's involvement and alien abduction, and the Masons and the Trilateral Commission??????
Here is your hero:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7OCgMPX2mE
Here is GW Bush, his bullhorn speech.
The Prez in a school room, reading a story book with children at the very moment he is aware of an attack on his country.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rg5NvKpJfKE
Kryptonite:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tpl6ncyxLGw
A song - I watched the world float to the dark side of the moon; I feel there was nothing I could do. (weak:~? eat some kryptonite)
George W Bush's Net Worth Is $37,075,300
I see GWB's reported net worth has almost caught up clinton's current net worth. I guess unmitigated treason pays extremely well and gets 'protection' as well. The poltical system is a whackamole game with each mole competing against each other on the corruption scale and who can sell their story convincingly to 'the people'.
Thank God Kaiser is defending the government. Our government would never lie to us, right? if they did, an army of crackerjack reporters from Foxnews would catch them. It would be all over the front page of the Washington Post and New York Times- like they did with Nixon. And Kaiserhoff makes a good point - Bin laden must have been working with powerful alien forces -you know the ones with underground bases under the ocean -For Osama to orchestrate a complete stand down of the Norad defense system and to have all three buildings pre-wired with demolition explosives to cause a collapse at freefall speed (including WTC7 which was not hit by any plane) he would be the greatest terrorrist of all time. Yes but while it appears that all three buildings were wired for explosives -the evidence is overwhelming-- Pools of molten metal, testing by Dr. Steven Jones and others showing thermate -it goes on and on. But I don't believe it for a moment. Kaiserhoff is right -Bin laden and his alien alies brought those buildings down with super alien technology-the type that the government is aware of but does not tell us for fear of panicking the public. I could almost Read George Bush's mind when he was told of the attack and he stopped reading the goat book to the kiddos to reflect on what was happening -"Oh fuck--Tenet and Cheney were right- It's Bin laden and the Goddam Aliens -I should have listened to them."
The mass media of today would make Josef Goebbels blush.
yOU WANT TO KNOW WHY 9-11 HAPPENED AND WHO DID IT AND WHY.
George Bush's son was in charge of the world trade center buildings security at up until
two weeks before 9-11, and he permitted a construction company to work on the exact floor and location that the plane hit the first building , nine months before it happened, plenty of time to plant explosives, the cruise missle under the wing of the drone controlled plane was flown by someone at Andrews Air force base. Building seven was taken down demolished after the attacks? Why limp dick excuse was unstable, real reason all of the cold war UST notes that were sold to fund CIA operations to take down the Soviet Union. Silverstein owner of trade centers had a problem , low occupancy, so he benefited on a 30 million dollar insurance policy that paid what one billion or so.
GW's son handed over security the a stooge two weeks before the attacks. You can find all this information on you tube if you care to search for it. What a cesspool we have made . Have a nice day.
my favoirte remains all those fighter air exercises on the same day. I love those odds
my second favorite is their inability to show one inch of video from the pentagon area (after immediately seizing it all) to shut us up
There's no video from anywhere. The Pentagon, the airports in Newark, Boston or Portland. None from OKC or Sandy Hook or Aurora for that matter.
Show the video tape or STFU.
No video from Princess Diana car crash in the Paris Tunnel which had video cameras.
JFK Dallas assassination Zapruder film was "photoshopped" and edited by the technology of that day: Original Zapruder film transparencies were photographically greatly enlarged, then photo enlargements literally painted with false details, and then painted enlargements re-photographed onto new "Zapruder" motion picture film, and then released to the public with the false images. This "photoshop" story is found in some JFK investigation books.
If you watch video of JFK's motorcade passing through Dealey Plaza, there are a few people with film cameras, yet only Zapruder's survived; but even that didn't surface until years later. The FBI and CIA confiscated all other film (and most of the photos) from the "kill zone".
The fact that there is no footage (except for 5 poor quality frames) of what hit the Pentagon should have everyone suspicious. The Pentagon had about 70 cameras that should've captured footage of what crashed into it, but we're supposed to believe they all mysteriously malfunctioned at the same time. Hotels across from the Pentagon had footage as well that was immediately confiscated by the FBI.
There were at least 5 video cameras pointed at the Murrah Building that would've shown evidence of what transpired, yet they still refuse to release this to the public. They always claim it's in the interest of "national security". The question remains: who's security are they really trying to protect?
the twin towers had structural flaws, long before 911. cracks, where the gusset plates were welded to the columns. cracks as wide as my finger. all over the the place. engineers had not even come up with a possible fix, when the show, which was on regular tv, aired at least a year before 911. then theres the billion dollar asbestos mandate, which was long overdue.
They were designed to withstand the hit of a 707
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fQlC2AIWrY
yeah, that's the ticket cracks everywhere a strong wind would have done the same thing
Right -It's clear all three fell down on their own accord. The planes hitting them had nothing to do with it -just an incredible coincidence of timing. The fact that WTC7 fell down for know apparent reason -is proof of that. I know that Larry Silverstein deserves the $7 billion he got from double insuring the buildings (including for acts of terrorism) He is a shrewd business man and no doubt was aware of the structural defects of the buildings -but why should the Insurance companies have to pay for the negligence of the architects, and builders? They should be sued also. And let's go after the incompetent welders who could not properly weld the gusset plates to the columns.
Isn't it enough, to just not believe?
When you can do anything and get away with it, guess what....
What does Honey Boo Boo think about 9/11?
Good Numbers 1 and 3, as well as Numbers 1 & 11-13.
Ignore the shill. It just feeds him. Great work George. The one thing I know about 9/11 is that I will never know what happened. All I can do is keep learning. Our friend shillhoff wants to stifle questions and investigation with ad hominem et al.
we know enough to know what needs to be done
But the collective "we" will not do it.
Basically, those of us who actually think about and learn about such things already know pretty much what happened in and around 911.
Same thing that HAS always happened and WILL always happen when enough wealth gets concentrated into a few hands.
Preface: This is not a partisan post. We have repeatedly documented that Obama is as bad or worse than the Bush administration.
Of course not. It's a rat shit Communist post, George. What would we expect?
I like your name, kaiser. It's sutible for a Nazi.
Just for my own edification kind sir. Could you please put as much effort into a post as George put in his explaing how his post on the lies of our government make George a communist? Or would it be sufficient to say, you didnot like Georges posts and the only thought that entered your mind was, "rat shit communist"!
Maybe you could add a few of Adam Smiths thoughts on capitalism as a kicker!
OMG the Red Menace is back ..... It's a Communist plot !!! Someone dig up McCarthy.
9/11 was done with the knowledge of our own government and if you don't understand that, all I can say is you must be utilizing far too many of your precious little brain cells on breathing.
Sometimes I ponder on just how much skin there is out there, on the hoof.
Despite the overwhelming surplus and its apparent low value, it's amazing just how many people are still a waste of the stuff.
Kaiserhoff I don't know how fucked up you have to be to post that kind of trash and by saying to GW this is a "Communist post" demonstrates your complete and total idiocy and lack of knowledge about even the basics of what GW so kindly pointed out here.
Shame on you. I'll bet you're no older than 14 and play on the Internet when Mommy's away. Now go to bed without your supper!
A mock turtle like you deserves the full monty! 10 seconds of torture and you would be singing like a canary, ratting on your mates, if you have any. Take a look in the mirror cocksucker kaiserho, wanker. Would love to give you a good pasting; you'd be sucking your dinner from a straw and wearing diapers for the rest of your days. love you!
Actually, torture only works that way on TV. Maybe you should invest in a life instead of a TV.
George brings along rat shit trolls we have never heard from before.
I am sooooooo impressed.
Our tax dollars at work.
“Dissent is the highest form of patriotism.”
-Thomas Jefferson
“Patriotism means to stand by the country.
It does not mean to stand by the president or any other public
official save exactly to the degree in which he himself stands by the
country. It is patriotic to support him insofar as he efficiently
serves the country. It is unpatriotic not to oppose him to the exact
extent that by inefficiency or otherwise he fails in his duty to stand
by the country.”
– Teddy Roosevelt
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or
that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only
unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American
public.”
– Teddy Roosevelt
“This country, with its institutions,
belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary
of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional
right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or
overthrow it.”
- Abraham Lincoln, First Inaugural
“These economic royalists complain that
we seek to overthrow the institutions of America. What they really
complain of is that we seek to take away their power. Our allegiance
to American institutions requires the overthrow of this kind of power.
In vain they seek to hide behind the flag and the Constitution. In
their blindness they forget what the flag and the Constitution stand
for.”
- Franklin Roosevelt
“Those who give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
- Ben Franklin
Thank You George -you are a wise and learned Patriot. I am once again inspired - triple feature for me tonight - (The Patriot (Mel Gibson's), Idiocracy and V for Vendetta- three classics I keep watching for inspiration and to perk me up after a tough week, Tomorrow I watch Braveheart --Again!
no greater truth than "the first casualty of war is truth." unless and until EVERYONE is going to bring up "sources and methods" then of course the folks who have point will not. "for in the lie greater truths are revealed." we're not fighting the revolutionary war here. nor is the opposition engaged in "liberation theology" either. and that's not just truth...that's a FACT. the question that needs asking...and ANSWERING...is really quite simple...far simpler than what is presented here. "are there the resources to conduct and sustain such an enterprise?" and by "resources" i do not mean "merely" the men and material...but the MORAL resources. this is not the USA's first rodeo...we were founded in War, we had a VERY uncivil "Civil War." Teddy Roosevelt had to "get his own soldiers" for his glory. (which he did do amazingly enough.) "Black" Jack Pershing didn't get that moniker because he had a dark and devious mind. "the class for whom the stars fell upon" didn't get that way "cuz they just happened to be there." and on and on we go. the ONLY truth that matters is "where we go we go together." and that's it. this is not a game for lone rangers...let alone for folks who think "independently." indeed..."just ask George Washington" if you're wondering: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valley_Forge
Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel.
You sold your soul, George. Was it worth it?
very factual argument there
Right -our government Right or wrong -if they decided to sacrifice 3000 of our people -it must have been for a good reason --the greater good. Even if the Muslim terrorists did not do 911- I'm sure there are plenty of them that would have wanted to in the future. 911 has made all these preemptive wars possble -it has allowed us to kill millions of terrorists --Over THERE- and I repeat and emphasize- "OVER THERE" - after all, can't we all agree that'it's better to be killing them OVER THERE - then having to do battle with them HERE? I don't like TSA agents fondling my 10 year old daughter at the airport, but if we don't stop terrorism, inner body cavity searches may be required in the immediate future. Those goddam terrorsits hide bombs in the most disgusting-places.
I read somewhere that Adam Lanza converted to Islam. I wouldn't be surprised if Sandy Hook wasn't an Al Quada operation -they're very active again -harvesting opium in Afghanistan, they took out Gadaffi in Libya, on the front lines in Syria. In every country that we are protecting and trying to liberate to bring freedom -those bastards seem to be one step ahead of us trying to capitalize and benefit from our work. They're like fleas on a dog's ass- we liberate libya and they jump off our ass and take over the new government
Holy Christ.
At first I was horrified as what I was reading here on ZH.
Then I remembered,
THIS IS THE WEEKEND ZERO HEDGE.
Have fun kids. Mom's gone for the weekend, fucking her boss.
And Dad's apparently doing vodka and bath salts out in the garage.
Come back Monday if you're weak. Or take off your shirt and roll in the shit through the entire glorious weekend.
Isn't fighting "terrorism" what this patriotism is about? Is fighting terrorism the reason we are put under lock and key...due to the 9-11 attacks...the skit at the school...the guns confiscation which will send the southern states into a civil war with the DHS, which is paid for by their very own taxes?
911 has been the reason for putting the entire world into a prison manned by zealots who think that they rule the world, are the chosen ones, better than the rest, ridding the globe of anyone but them and then, if you have an imagination, you will see one thing that stands out above all us....in these people, uncertainty...becuase even they mutherfucker have no idea what they are doing. They are going off a list of things-to-do when you take over the world that was created by men a century ago...and this list has left out the fact that there is no god.
The Chosen Ones being the Jews and the Banksters?
Many British and European Gentile Banksters are Freemasons, and Freemasons are De Facto Jews.
McCain and Lyndsey Graham's motto is "Live Free AND Die!" Better to be a living serf and a slave than a dead patriot.
The course humanity is being put on is a road to hell, paved with bad intentions. This kingdom that 3rd generation rich boys want is a childhood fantasy, created in a world where there is no contact with the fractured souls which life puts in our path in order to learn humility and appreciation for even the poorest among us have something to offer.
9-11 has led to the deaths of 100,000 people, many children, old, sick, the women...It has destroyed cities, misplaced milllions from their homes. Infrastructures have been destroyed along with remnants from the past of ancestors who gave them after dedicating their life to doing so, as an art form.
You are wrong, Mister. Just wrong. If we can get 911 participants to come forward and unload the burden of guilt, we just may have a chance to correct the massive fraud and ill-gotten fortunes handed to the perpetrators.
"It's a rat shit Communist post"
LOL. The wall came down 20 years ago. The "pinkos" are gone. Ask your boss there in the boiler room for some fresh line of BS. Try "Islamo-fascist".
Boiler room is really humming tonight. Hope you guys are getting benefits with that minimum wage.
The tragedy is that these shit fucks are doing it for free.
They actually believe the line of horseshit they've been fed and want the rest of us to share their lobotomy.
The Roosevelts are not exactly credible except as elitist Progressives.
FORWARD SOVIET!
What a fucked up little twerp you must be. I'll bet your family is proud!
His family is proud. Finally, he has a nice gig to tell everyone that can't quite put 2+2 together that 2+2 might not equal 4.