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10%... 40%... Now An 80% Confiscation Scheme?
The news coming out of Cyprus only gets worse.
It was bad enough that the political class even promoted the idea of STEALING depositors’ savings. But now we’re finding out that they lied time and again about how much they’d take.
Initially the plan in Cyprus was the following:
- Simply TAKING 6.75% of ALL savings accounts up to the official insurance limit of €100,000
- A 9.9% levy (THEFT) on all deposits above the official insurance limit of €100,000.
The idea was put to a vote by the Cyprus Government, which rejected it. However, the facts remain that this idea WAS suggested. In fact, the original proposal from Germany and IMF was even more dramatic:
Cyprus state broadcaster CyBC reported on Saturday that German Finance Minister actually entered the Eurogroup meeting on Friday proposing a 40 percent haircut on Cypriot bank accounts. Sarris stated on Saturday that this had also been the proposal of the International Monetary Fund.
Sarris stated in Brussels that in view of the threat from the European Central Bank for banks in Cyprus to shut down and chaos to ensue, the increase in interest taxation and the haircut to bank accounts became necessary. “A disorderly default, that was a genuine possibility, has been averted,” he said.
http://ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_wsite2_1_16/03/2013_488169
Please reread that first paragraph: Germany and the IMF wanted to take 40% of all depositors’ accounts. Imagine nearly half of your savings being simply TAKEN one day to bail out a bank. That’s what Germany and the IMF proposed.
And we now find out that it could be far worse than even that:
Cyprus's finance minister said Tuesday that large deposit holders at Cyprus Popular Bank PCL (CPB.CP), the island's second biggest lender, could face losses of as much as 80% on their deposits as the government moves to wind down its operations.
Speaking in a television interview with state broadcaster RIC, Michalis Sarris indicated that it could also take years before those depositors see any of their money returned.
"Realistically, very little will be returned," Mr. Sarris said.
So… first it’s 10% on savings about €100,000… then we find out actually 40% was proposed… and NOW they reveal that realistically it could be as much as 80%.
As a quick aside, anyone who believes this could never happen in the US should consider that John Corzine stole over $1 billion worth of client funds during MF Global’s collapse in the US. Corzine is not in jail and in fact remains one of the most connected financial elites in the US. Indeed, NO ONE went to jail for MF Global’s theft.
There can be little doubt that European elites took note of the MF Global case and believed a similar idea could be foisted upon the European public during extreme times of Crisis. The only difference between MF Global and Cyprus is that in the former case the funds that were stolen were invested in commodity futures and other securities whereas in Cyprus they were savings.
Investors take note: a major development is at hand. As bankrupt nations and banks continue to spiral downward there will be more and more desperate attempts to plug the holes in their balance sheets by any means necessary. And it will be a LOT more than they claim,
The idea of confiscating savings is now on the table. And under an extreme enough crisis, this idea could indeed be implemented: the proposal will likely be “you, the people of this nation can choose…we can take 7% of your savings and your bank remains afloat or you lose everything.” Be prepared for this.
If you’re an individual investor worried about what Europe’s Crisis really means for your portfolio, we’ve published a FREE Special Report outlining exactly that. It’s titled, What Europe Means For You and Your Savings.
In this report, we outline the risks Europe’s banking crisis holds not only for those in Europe, but for savers around the world. We also explain how this crisis will most likely unfold, including which areas are most at risk in the financial system. And we cap it off by listing multiple backdoor plays on Europe that investors can use to profit from Europe’s Crisis.
You can pick up a FREE copy here:
http://gainspainscapital.com/what-europes-collapse-means-for-your-savings/
Thank you for reading!
Graham Summers
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Once upon a time Christians were against it too. That's where the Jews came into the mix. Jew runs the bank and because Christians are not charging interest on or paying interest to other Christians, it's AOK. Of course, Jews shouldn't charge other Jews interest, but outsiders are totally ok to screw over.
By the 3rd century, acute currency problems in the Roman Empire drove them into decline. The rich who were in a position to take advantage of the situation became the money-lenders when the ever-increasing tax demands in the last declining days of the Empire crippled and eventually destroyed the peasant class by reducing tenant-farmers to serfdom. It was evident that usury meant exploitation of the poor
Basically every single historical figure and religion violently condemns it and places it in the same level as murder. Profit sharing is one way around it, as is pawnbroking in the classical (sell it to me for cheap and buy it back later at the full value). Islam flat out bans pretty much all of it. All "interest" is flat fees agreed to ahead of time and late payments are simply that, late. Money does not get "time-value".
The entire modern justification for it stems from the concept of "food money", no, not for eating, but for growing. If it's possible for a thing to reproduce, then it's ok to charge interest on a loan for that thing. This justification was dreamt up basically because people got tired of Jews stealing all their money.
Profit sharing, joint ventures... these are perfectly ok things. And if a bank lends the money and earns a profit, it only makes sense that this should be given to the depositors as their dividend. In this sense, Islam gets it 100%. First came the Jews who had their set of rules and ways around them. Then Christians came out with a revised edition to hammer out those loopholes, yet still found ways around them. Islam pretty much seems to have gotten it right though. Still some ways around it, but "compounding interest" does not exist and that's the way it should be. The very notion that interest could exceed principal resulted in many massacres of those who dared demand it.
"If it's possible for a thing to reproduce, then it's ok to charge interest on a loan for that thing. This justification was dreamt up basically because people got tired of Jews stealing all their money."
I believe that the notion of "interest" came from the Sumerians; and, yes, it came about as a result of livestock propagation (who is entitled to the calf that was born during transport?).
I TOTALLY agree with this notion as it has a real connection to something physical.
"The very notion that interest could exceed principal resulted in many massacres of those who dared demand it."
And this notion is based on the belief that there can be perpetual growth on a finite planet. We've utterly fialed to make this connection (when such big events occur).
Interest charged is a 'business' idea; not a religious one. It is an agreed amount to be charged tomorrow for a hamburger today. Business; not religion.
I get rather bogged down when the religious stuff starts oozing out, so forgive me if I'm missing the original argument...
My take on this was that "religion" tended to comment on an already existing practice, not that it created the practice. Religions really cannot comment on this to and real depth because they'd have to reconcile the discrepancy of "go forth and multiply" and "usury/interest [which is really growth]" is bad: BOTH of these things/premises are flawed when applied within a finite structure.
Interest does not depend on growth. It does depend on growth in this system of over indebtedness. However, it is not an inherent requirement for the concept of interest to work.
Interest can be paid by living with less of your own production when you choose to borrow, rather than wait to spend all of your production.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with charging interest, compound or otherwise. The bible forbade it (at least, charging your 'brother' interest) but who gives a fuck? The bible forbids lots of perfectly reasonable things.
Why should I lend my (or someone else's) capital, possibly for decades, when there is a real risk that I will not get back some or even all of my principal? I should be compensated for that risk, and that compensation is interest.
The problem with the current system is there is no way (or incentive) for depositors to restrain the amount of credit issued by banks because of deposit insurance and the implied backstop of the government demanding banks' issuance via taxation.
There are two real solutions: either have banks issue their own currencies, so the market can discount their notes in accordance to the amount of risk each note represents (ie, free banking); or keep a government sanctioned 'legal tender' but specify that any bank dealing in it works on a deposit rather than loan basis (ie, no fractional reserve lending).
"There's absolutely nothing wrong with charging interest, compound or otherwise."
NOTHING? If that were the case then you'd have to identify/prove how nothing bad could occur as a result of paying off all interest and and all principal.
"The problem with the current system is there is no way (or incentive) for depositors to restrain the amount of credit issued by banks because of deposit insurance and the implied backstop of the government demanding banks' issuance via taxation. "
I'd argue that the real problem is that there is NO connection to the physical world, that our virtual world has enabled such liberties as to make us believe that this all only a "book" problem.
If there is no more growth available (because there are insufficient natural resources to exploit to provide growth) how is your "proposal" to work? If the premise is always based on perpetual growth on a finite planet then it's doomed.
Interest can be paid by living with less of your own production when you choose to borrow, rather than wait to spend all of your production.
The bible forbids lots of perfectly reasonable things.
You talking Old or New Testament here, because it DO matter.
The old one has much wilder stories.
Ever wonder why the New Testament is such a bunch of 'turn the other cheek' and 'if ordered to carry a soldier's pack for 1 mile, carry it for 2' pussyish bullshit? Because it was written by the Romans to pacify those pesky Christians! Get it? From an eye for an eye to BEND OVER AND TAKE IT!
Why should I lend my (or someone else's) capital, possibly for decades, when there is a real risk that I will not get back some or even all of my principal? I should be compensated for that risk, and that compensation is interest.
And that's why there are such things as joint venture and profit sharing. You share in the profit, but also the loss
Why risk your money on a bet, get a friggin' job that actually reqires skills, not deceptions and slight of hand gimmicks to extract what itsn't yours to begin with? You sound a lot like a bankster/capitalist.
Where will the jobs come from if there is no capital to start businesses?
pitz, wiki Sharia Law, discuss with the wife, then get back to us with your "views".
Ever bothered to read that silly little bible of yours? Also full of amazing punishments which are basically the same.
Sharia Law just takes it one step further in slamming the door shut on many of the inventive loopholes that people came up with over the centuries.
A minor difference you left out is that in Christian countries, women are allowed to vote, drive, work and walk around without a male family member escort. Another pesky little difference is that in Christian countries, people have freedom of speech and religion. Other than that, both religions are exactly the same.
When was the last time a Christian was stoned for adultry again? When was the last time a Chritians woman was jailed for being raped?
Let's talk about how people are treated in atheist countries like North Korea, China, and the USSR.
Try again, you retarded chimp.
"Let's talk about how people are treated in atheist countries like North Korea, China, and the USSR. "
First you'll have to identify on a map where the USSR is.
Everyone says the citizenry are disarmed,but nobody mentions the Russian mafia types.
Have you ever heard of the Colombian drug lords going anywhere without heavily armed escort?
Quod Erat Demonstratum.
Russian mafia types would be armed. Hey, aren't they trying to disarm us over here? Wonder why.....
Apparently (I read elsewhere on ZH) rich Russians already got their money out. That is why Putin is quiet. As I understand it, the people who will be affected are (unarmed) small business owners. That is a rotten government in Cyrpus that takes from its own people.
Government is but a conduit for human nature. Cyprus was set up for gang rape (claim to exploitation of NG resources) a long time ago.
Putin/Russia couldn't legitimately put a claim on Cyprus while Cyprus was a member of the EU. Sooner rather than later the EU will find that it's too costly to maintain Cyprus and then Russia swoops in; by that time things might be even more cheap.
...That is a rotten government in Cyrpus that takes from its own people.
LOL, that's ALL a government does... when it's not invading some other country and taking from 'their' people.
"Own people?"
Chattel slavery, FTMFW!
If you trust a bank with your financial well being you are a f***ing idiot.
I missed most of this but I heard briefly on Greek tv someone saying that small businesses were required to have money in the bank as collateral. They will be the ones most affected.
Sadly the world is full of fucking idiots. Which is how we got into this debt crisis and debt bubble in the first place. After all, debt only exists if someone is willing to lend. Obviously the fucking idiots of the world lent these banks a lot of cash.
Debt exists when someone is willing to borrow. For instance, Chinese do not want to borrow and save every cent; this has hurt their economy because of this. Banks extension of EZ credit (shark loans) at a time when everyone had very good jobs and the manufactured economy appeared to be booming (creating a bubble) is what got us into this mess. Predatory lending is always available at a price; when your banking institution resorts to irresponsible lending practices to entice consumers to go into debt, the problem is with the banks, not the idiots of the world (the idiots are the politicians who allowed this to happen).
"the problem is with the banks"
Still misses the mark.
Banks are only part of the System. They're part of the design. The "design" is based on perpetual growth, on a finite planet! Fucking THIS is what is idiotic and what is the reason why things are going to not end well. All of the actors in the play can only influence the color and timing; to quote from Shakespeare's Hamlet: The play's the thing.
The perpetual growth thing is only human. Nobody truly wants their kids to have less, do less and accept their meager existence. ZG posters continually confuse "banks" with "BANKS". There is simply no parallel between a small, local community bank that practices stringent loan checks and "investment" (lol) bankers. Anyone who thinks so is either an idiot or an ideologue. In fifteen years folks will look back on these discussions and chuckles since by that time new forms of energy, cheaper manufacturing and cutting edge technology will have completely revamped the planet. Already we see a significant drop in year over year energy use mainly through conservation, miniaturization and ever-rising efficiency.
Chinese don't borrow? Yeah right..
this is one fucked up country.
This is "Bankster Country." Holy Jesus! What are those goddamn animals!
HST
Could you be a little more specific with "this"
It's international! It works WHEREVER you are! Quick, try it!
Why isn't the "hang the bankers and put their heads on spikes" option put on the table?
I still can't believe the Bernanke's of this world let the cat out of the bag over a couple billion. If you are going to blow up the banking system, do it with, say, Italy, bring a big fish in; the damage is still incredible, but at least the banker/politicos get something out of it.
Instead, blow your foot off over a billion or two in Cyprus. Incredible.
The MOST important part of controlling the planet is ENERGY. The west had to toss out Russia. The US doesn't want the Russians jacking around energy prices as that would impact disposable income for US products (imported in to Europe).
I'm with you pashley1411, HEADS ON POSTS will end the problem overnight. It would only take five or, six of the powerful, behind the scenes banksters heads on posts to end this mess. These guys are bright but, they're incredibly ignorant of the rage behind the curtain of civility displayed by the sheeple. The masses have awakened to their schemes and are slowly getting on the same sheet of music.
Because Cyprus was a small enough to be quickly bailed out if things started going really badly. Trial balloon.
As the Cypriots seem to be patiently waiting in line to withdraw whatever portion of their money the banks will dole out, from a central banker's position, this appears to have gone pretty well.
Expect more of this in one or two other tertiary countries and then they will move on to the larger economies (Spain, Italy etc.).
These people handed most of their guns over to the Gubmint long ago. They can do little but rip up paving stones and throw them. Might be different in Amerikwa. We'll soon see.
"By refusing to wear (own) a gun you allow the criminal to operate with impunity...people fail to understand that there are cultures where violence is the rule, and where there are men to whom only the fear of retribution places a bridle on their license." - Louis L'Amour, North to the Rails
Americans have allowed for far too long bankers who put no restrictions upon themselves, who will not conform to limits, who infringe upon our liberties, to own and control the nation's money supply. These men care nothing for the law but seek profit from the labor of others.
Our freedoms were fought and bled for by others. We are losing a majority of those freedoms. The line must be drawn again. There must be law that protects peace and freedom.
How is legal plunder to be identified? Frederic Bastiat explained in The Law: "See if the law takes from some persons what belongs to them, and gives it to other persons to whom it does not belong. See if the law benefits one citizen at the expense of another by doing what the citizen himself cannot do without committing a crime.
"The person who profits from this law will complain bitterly, defending his acquired rights. He will claim that the state is obligated to protect and encourage his particular industry; that this procedure enriches the state because the protected industry is thus able to spend more and to pay hgher wages to the poor workingman.
"Do not listen to this sophistry by vested interests. The acceptance of these arguments will build legal plunder into a whole system."
Ignorance is bliss until it costs you everything.
There's always a cost associated with ignorance. They are mutually inclusive.
Yea well it's all no surprise to me anyway.
Apart from the whole "theft" issue..LOL..these people would likely see an 80% devaulation anyways, so in the end, they are ending up in the same place.
Yes, but in five years, once they have recovered by means of natual gas exploration, their currency would regain it's value. Today, they have lost their numbers in the system.
"once they have recovered by means of natual gas exploration"
By then they won't own any of the rights...what recovery?
The 'theft' occurred when the moron "depositors" converted their wealth to the so-called 'money' that the banks accepted as 'deposits'. Not at the actual bank itself.
Money must have intrinsic value, ie: gold, silver, barrels of oil, rounds of ammo. Pieces of paper with picture of dead people that can be arbitrarily printed on a printing press at the whim of politicians is not money.
Repeat after me:
Having "money" in a bank account is *not* "savings".
Having "money" in a bank account is *not* "savings".
Having "money" in a bank account is *not* "savings".
Having "money" in a bank account is *not* "savings".
Having "money" in a bank account is *not* "savings".
Having "money" in a bank account is *not* "savings".
Having "money" in a bank account is *not* "savings".
...
well it all smells like Argentina. is there a stock market in Cyprus?