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“Before We Plunge Ahead In Creating a Fishbowl Society of Surveillance, We Might Want to Ask Whether ..."

George Washington's picture




 

Americans are already the most spied upon people in history.

Yet spying didn't stop the Newtown massacre, the Boston terror attacks or 9/11.

(Indeed, the FBI interviewed one of the Boston terrorist suspects 2 years ago at the request of the Russian government ... and somehow dropped the ball.)

But D.C. politicians are already using the tragedy of the Boston attacks to shred Internet privacy and increase spying on Americans.

Indeed, a Google search of “increase surveillance after boston” currently yields 45 million hits:

Professor Jonathan Turley is one of the nation’s top constitutional and military law experts.

Turley writes:

For civil libertarians, all terrorist attacks come in two equally predictable parts.

 

First, there is the terrorist attack itself — a sad reality of our modern life. Second, comes the inevitable explosion of politicians calling for new security measures and surveillance. We brace ourselves for this secondary blow, which generally comes before we even fully know what occurred in an attack or how it was allowed to occur.

 

Politicians need to be seen as actively protecting public safety and the easiest way is to add surveillance, reduce privacy and expand the security state. What they are not willing to discuss is the impossibility of detecting and deterring all attacks. The suggestion is that more security measures translate to more public safety. The fact is that even the most repressive nations with the most abusive security services, places such as China and Iran, have not been able to stop terrorist acts.

 

While police were still combing through the wreckage from the Boston Marathon, politicians ran to cameras to pledge more security measures and surveillance. Indeed, Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel demanded more cameras in response to the Boston attack.

Chicago already is one of the most surveilled cities in the United States. Emanuel’s solution: add some more. It is a perfectly Pavlovian response of politicians eager to appear as champions of public safety.

 

We need to resist the calls for a greater security state and put this attack into perspective. These two brothers built homemade bombs with over-the-counter pressure cookers. They placed the devices in one of the most surveilled areas of Boston with an abundance of police and cameras [Proof here]. There is only so much that a free nation can do to avoid such an attack. Two men walked in a crowd and put two bags down on the ground shortly before detonation.

 

No one is seriously questioning the value of having increased surveillance and police at major events. That was already the case with the Boston Marathon. However, privacy is dying in the United States by a thousand papercuts from countless new laws and surveillance systems. Before we plunge ahead in creating a fishbowl society of surveillance, we might want to ask whether such new measures or devices will actually make us safer or just make us appear safer.

Indeed, the government has wasted money and resources on things that do nothing to protect us (and might even backfire) … instead of taking the steps which would actually increase our safety.

 

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Sun, 04/21/2013 - 06:12 | 3479679 Element
Element's picture

DHS FBI NSA

"When way too much criminal deviate peeping-Tom behavior is not nearly enough"

 

Intelligent article by Jonathan Turley, which will be studiously ignored by PBS etal, and the Beige House.

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 22:53 | 3479142 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Every citizen allowed to carry military pistol and rifle.

No groping, x-rays, or shoe removing at the airport.

Are we free or not? 

While we're at it, let us shut down the borders, not let anyone in illegally or on visa's.  Might just mean more job and education opportunities for Americans if the corporations can't whore out for cheap labor and the universities for quick $$$.

Imagine if the homeowner with the boat had an AR-15 and could have just plugged the asshole.

Oh no, that would mean too much freedom.

DUH!

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 22:34 | 3479055 JOYFUL
JOYFUL's picture

The toxic mess which George's other thread here turned into has exposed the fault lines in the Merikan conciousness a dozen years after the 'original' false flag mass-terrorisation program of 9-11...

and shown just how successful it has been - in inducing normally rational people to assist in their own suicide, and abandon capacity for critical judgement in favor of a reptilian brain response to events so obviously staged to deceive that even a child could see the laughable lack of credibility in the 'official narrative' designed to set off religio-cultural war...which benefits no one except the usual kosher mafiya behind the mind control curtain now fully in place over the west.

George has done us a great service in allowing the vitriol of a phalanx of dupes to come out into the light of day in full expression of the hate and fear that they feel towards the rest of humanity...in full conformity with the talmudist plan to pit each against the other and induce an orgy of mutual destruction. What I would previously have assumed to be merely the work of the usual sio-trolls assigned to guide every discussion into the gutter now on reflection seems more the 'heart'-felt urge of fully conditioned sio-sombies whose critical reflexes are so impaired as to allow them to genuinely enquire from the most profound depths of ignorance and self-deception...

                                        "Where is the demonization of Muslims?"

As if this entire lost decade of dramatically hollowed out reality...and hollowed out economy...hollowed out 'freedoms' constitutions, and capacity to think...all replaced with a mindless 'surge' of Merikan blood, money, weapons and attention onto killing, torturing, maiming and detaining hundred of thousands of innocent [Muslim!]civilians for no better reason than that they live in areas of interest to the millenialist maniacs of the tiny terrorist statelet which directs this whole grimoire of grisly assured mutual destruction...had not been on display all the while as an open book showing the steady descent of the Merkican mind into the morass of moral decay and abandonment of the very values which the fallen Repubic had once revered.

For those of you still lingering back in the fallen lands, given over still to false hopes of the possibility of pullin this thing out of the fire, and avoiding the consequences of mass delusion turned successfully to bloodlust and deathwish...see this for what it is...last days of Pompeii.

 

Sun, 04/21/2013 - 00:25 | 3479370 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Totally agree. The responses* on here (and in emails I've received) to this charade have been stomache-churningly disgusting and have turned me off even trying to talk sense to any of them any more. They're so far into the Matrix that I can't reach them from outside....

It is exactly like watching fans all worked into a frenzy at a WWE tournament.

 

* I'm talking about the responses to the many Sunstein Sockpuppets by regular Hedges, not the obviously planted provocative responses by said sockpuppets to GW's and TD's articles.

Sun, 04/21/2013 - 08:08 | 3479786 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

ha!   Sunstein Sockpuppets, that's a good one.

they're gonna be out in full force today - it's a Sunday!

Sun, 04/21/2013 - 08:46 | 3479822 JOYFUL
JOYFUL's picture

I got about 2 hours left fore I start to fade....

hope you in a later time zone Tippy!

 

Sun, 04/21/2013 - 09:01 | 3479834 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

still stuck here with the blindman j

i'm not leaving the fucking country.
there will be another way.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-03-14/because-it-worked-so-well-stalin#comment-3331568

nice work on the early shift

Sun, 04/21/2013 - 00:36 | 3479437 JOYFUL
JOYFUL's picture

Affirmative...on the emotive level. But I've already gotten the ROI for which I come here...

which is to gauge the pace of the decline, and invoke the appropriate counter-measures for personal protection...

but the legion of witless lemmings on display here and elsewhere are putting hundreds of thousands(if not millions)of others less prepared than you or I at great risk with their baying for blood.

The pogroms which the pharisees pursue are about to begin...and the victims will be our kith n kin...

so let's try to overcome our nausea and stay the course, in hopes of helping the few still not infected by this collective insanity find their way out of the fallen lands.

**'deed Dawg: it's the overwhelming magnitude of hedger's headbangingly stupid responses that is the tell today...this is the "Freddies" shining hour ...and this sucka's goin down!

Sun, 04/21/2013 - 01:58 | 3479544 i-dog
i-dog's picture

 

"this sucka's goin down"

Yep. The dénouement finally begins! 6 months later than I expected it to begin.

Well, I guess 6 months is a tiny overrun in a 'project' that began 240 years ago ... in 1773 ... when the Jesuits were driven out of Europe and all other Catholic lands for their undue meddling in political affairs, and they therefore chose to move the Khazarian headquarters offshore by inciting - and financing and assisting - a few disgruntled anti-Catholic colonial tax slaves to throw off their European, errr, English shackles. This allowed them to set up an offshore base from which to renew their attacks on Rome, and wider Europe, on their way to yet another global takeover attempt.

The Khazarians' fingerprints are ALL OVER the founding of the USSA...it didn't begin in 1913, as most believe - that was just the beginning of the end.

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 21:59 | 3478968 UncleFurker
UncleFurker's picture

 

If you do the Google query with quotation marks ( "increase surveillance after boston" ) you get 78 results, and they all appear to be about this ZH post.

A better query would be "surveillance" "boston" "bomber" 

 

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 22:26 | 3479027 wintermute
wintermute's picture

I just tried this:

decrease surveillance after boston

 

Resulting in:

About 380,000,000 results (0.51 seconds

Sun, 04/21/2013 - 06:59 | 3479718 i-dog
i-dog's picture

... but only one result - your post! - if the quotation marks are included (as suggested by the OP).

Btw, I assume you upvoted yourself...or are there 2 illiterates on the board?

Mon, 04/22/2013 - 06:50 | 3482961 wintermute
wintermute's picture

i-dog. You try the search yourself instead of mouthing off.

With quotes there are only 115 results on google - most from this thread. I left the quotes off as that is what the image has.  The whole OP is total FUD. GW normally does very good articles but this one is junk.

Sun, 04/21/2013 - 08:44 | 3479820 JOYFUL
JOYFUL's picture

'deed Dawg...

the incidence of punters 'upvoting' themelves on these two particular GW thread.s..and then taking the time n trouble to 'downvote' those of opposing persuasion - has been noticeably at an all time high!

I would have been tempted to call some of these poltroons(c'mon down "FREDDIE"!!!)on the most elementary breach of "Fight Club" etiquette....but some other dude once pointed out that one of the rules of "Fight Club" is never talk about the rules...so I've kept it too meself/

Let a thousand illiterates loom!

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 21:43 | 3478930 rwe2late
rwe2late's picture

 Those who think the US government does not and will not abuse its power at home or abroad,

will trust the government to exercise expansive, even unlimited totalitarian power.

Those who think the government already greatly abuses its power at home and abroad, do not expect the government to commit less abuse with even more secretive and unconstrained powers.

For example, with "gun control". Those who fear fellow citizens, but not   government, will  cede power to government. Those who think otherwise, believe granting government more surveillance powers over a less armed citizenry is not a good idea, most certainly in the current context.

And then, there are those who, for nefarious or self-serving reasons other than public safety support having greater government power over citizens.

Sun, 04/21/2013 - 06:45 | 3479702 Element
Element's picture

Remember in 1989 when Glasnost was a household word and the Soviets rolled over in a feeble display of giving up? When there was an exquisite protracted naivete that the West seemed so superior to the commie philosophy, and the fascists, due to our deep and almost pathological respect for laws and constitutional due-process, and we had this crazy and incredibly immature notion that our govts were fully under the leash of democratic controls and permanently constrained from ever behaving like the STAZI, or like the KGB, via a network of cunningly conceived 'checks and balances'? ... we were obviously sooooooo superior! ... and we knew it ... and our shops were waaaaaay better on top of it all.

Look at us now ... such unmitigated conceit and complacency ... how embarrassing.

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 21:43 | 3478888 Number 156
Number 156's picture

I was a big brother to my little brother, I kept an eye on him, made sure he didn't stumble into trouble. Nothing wrong with that.

It would be nice to have someone looking over us, watching out for trouble. the problem is, the ones in power demanding this are opportunists and predators. Dishonest without integrity or loyalty. These are people that eventually end up in power, are also the ones who lust for it, find enjoyment in lording it over us and to have control in every aspect of our lives for their own benefit. They have exploited the fear and terror just as the terrorists have.

They were able to hand the labor unions a big fat gift of the TSA. OSI Systems Inc made millions selling body scanner technology, (wanna bet there were a few senators or congressmen invested in this venture?)

"Never waste a good crisis" it was said. Now who are the terrorists?

 

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 21:26 | 3478873 Goldilocks
Sat, 04/20/2013 - 20:07 | 3478615 Stabile Eyes it
Stabile Eyes it's picture

I don't have any problem what so ever with increased so called spying on citizens of America via street video means . If you don't do anything intentional to harm others, you needn't be worried about it.

I do have a problem with the actual results of findings. If government agencies are going to disregard findings...or not follow up thoroughly on them...then there is a potential serious problem with that. 

I would still question who that guy was who was wearing a pink ski hat and ski googles, it seemsed as if he was waving the terrorists on, and by using that signal of the yellow bag passing his backside...that he may have flagged an okay to someone...that all was clear...as in a car race. His colors were very bright for someone to notice quite a distance away. That seems so obvious to me.

Sun, 04/21/2013 - 11:57 | 3480261 Vince Clortho
Vince Clortho's picture

Hey Stabile!  

Then you should have no problem with a live mini-cam shoved up your rectum so the DEA can make sure you are not transporting drugs or illegal contraband.

After all, if you have nothing to hide, no problem.

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 20:45 | 3478750 MilleniumJane
MilleniumJane's picture

Wow, you have a lot of stuff to catch up on!

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 23:58 | 3479358 Stabile Eyes it
Stabile Eyes it's picture

ha, I know what's going on

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 20:18 | 3478655 Zer0head
Zer0head's picture

and when .gov decides that fat people emit too much carbon?

or when .gov decides that people over age 50 are no longer sustainable?

 

Stabile Eyes it

you are a fucking idiot

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 23:54 | 3479339 Stabile Eyes it
Stabile Eyes it's picture

No

to me you are the fucking idiot

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 23:44 | 3479322 Stabile Eyes it
Stabile Eyes it's picture

Fat people are gross

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 21:17 | 3478852 Kprime
Kprime's picture

Zer0,  you give un-Stabile far too much credit...S.E. is way way below fucking idiot.  I am thinking he/she is on the level of some civil servant.

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 23:58 | 3479349 Stabile Eyes it
Stabile Eyes it's picture

you must be fat

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 23:55 | 3479341 Stabile Eyes it
Stabile Eyes it's picture

you are just as bad as zero

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 20:32 | 3478701 CH1
CH1's picture

Create an all-seeing 800 pound gorilla with the only sword in town.

Then, whenever he screws up, reward him and give him a bigger sword.

Helluva plan.

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 19:02 | 3478448 freedogger
freedogger's picture

The more citizen sourced surveillance of TPTB, the better. You want to fly drones around my city? Fucking have at it I say. Good luck trying to outlaw it. How you gonna prove who's flying it?

Every kid on my block already has their very own 30 dollar remote control heli that takes them two minutes to learn how to use. I eagerly await the day one of these is used to put a pie in the face of a local politician. (It's a tradition where I live).

To take these things up a level, add a better battery, cell phone quality camera and make em smaller with a three or four g connection. We aren't that far away from the day when I can order my very own spy drone. 

edit: And here it is: 

http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/robot-dragonfly-micro-aerial-vehicle

Oh, and for those monitoring communications for our own protection, please understand I am by no way advocating arming these things with weapons for more nefarious outcomes. That would be cowardly, despicable and fully without honor.

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 19:25 | 3478495 knukles
knukles's picture

Pie in the face?
Shit, somewhere (I forget at this moment) some dude flicked a cigarette butt in the general direction of a politician during a parade and was arrested for turruristik threats.

Good fucking luck
What I wonder is over my personal property, can I shotgun a drone flying say 20 foot above me (discharging of firearm regulations, aside)  What if it's hovering outside my window?
I mean this shit cannot be done with impunity.. the flying of the crap...

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 19:50 | 3478548 freedogger
freedogger's picture

Yep, I think its in our charter of rights and freedoms (our constitution)

Jean Chretien, former Prime Minister of Canada
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Afp9H1tLmro

Almost every Alberta premier and Calgary city mayor has been pied at least once. The respectable ones have taken it in stride and cracked a joke about it. Others have used the T word and pressed assault charges.

Here's a huge list. Nice to see its not just a Canadian sport.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_who_have_been_pied

There's also egging and shoeing, haven't seen much of that in Canada though.

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 18:59 | 3478443 IamtheREALmario
IamtheREALmario's picture

First let me say that the government's propaganda story about the Boston bombing makes no sense and is all a bunch of conflicts and impossibilities. How many bullets and bombs were they actually carrying when they tried to rob the 7-11 ... which in and of itself makes no sense. They have money for bombs, but not for food ... or maybe they just wanted to be caught.. or maybe they rob 7-11s all the tme (and leave the wife and kid at home). How many hours of gun battles are we supposed to believe the "suspects" had bombs and bullets for? Give me a break.

Second and more disturbing because if we assume that the Boston bombing was a false flag event created for a purpose, that purpose was to create TWO PRECEDENTS.

1. Home invasion by the police without a warrant (all in the name of public safety of course)

2. Denying the SUSPECT his Miranda rights (right to remain silent and have an attorney and all) .. again all in the name of public safety of course.

Personally I feel much less safe when the police can barge into my home without a valid judicially created warrant and then can deny me the right to an attorney.

People should stop celebrating and high fiving and figure out just how bad they have been had.... all in the name of public safety of course. I wish they could tell me how I am any more safe today than I was a year ago or 5 years ago or 30 years ago before the country became and unconstitutional police state.

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 21:32 | 3478891 Omen IV
Omen IV's picture

 their actions got them caught - not government algorithms, masses of cops & FBI, or tons of equipment or communications merely mistakes of: ATM withdrawal, 7/11 incident, shooting cop, robbing a car - and no escape plan

so these guys did what they did - unemployed - for about $1,000 +/-  twelve years ago it cost less than $250k to take down WTC and 3,000 people in the interim, the USA spent at least $6 trillion on two wars, endless useless military hardware, huge  homeland organization plus at least 8,000 young men and women dead plus 1 million in the ME blown away not to include every day drone strikes which are considered  collateral damage not counted as a cost so whose strategy is working? when does the alternative of Isolationism begin?- should have been 1947!
Sat, 04/20/2013 - 18:40 | 3478402 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

More interestingly, MSNBC expert Engel also let slip on air that suspect number two, Dzhokhar, who is now in hospital care, “was probably being debriefed”. This was an odd phrase to attach to an alleged terrorist fugitive.

http://21stcenturywire.com/2013/04/20/why-did-boston-and-america-celebrate-martial-law-with-chants-of-usa-usa/ 

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 18:51 | 3478428 kurt
kurt's picture

In an early interview of Mother Bloomberg he said, "...our, the targets...". This happened on day one in reference to the victims.

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 19:40 | 3478518 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

it's always the slips of the tongue that give you the best peek inside. ain't it?

gonna try and find that press conference. 

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 18:16 | 3478358 FreeMktFisherMN
FreeMktFisherMN's picture

clicked on the link about the Chicago mayor's new plans to 'never let a good crisis go to waste', and am encouraged by the comments if you scroll down on the page. More people are becoming awake/have been awake about Zionism and the growing police state than I realized. 

Sun, 04/21/2013 - 20:16 | 3481828 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

yep, Rahm, a Jew, can't seem to get his children (after all, it takes a villiage) to stop shooting each other.  So let's have more laws that willl only be enforced upon the law-abiding.  Yep, that will do the trick!

- Ned

{I continue to wonder about the self-hatred, can't get my mind around that.}

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 18:16 | 3478353 Vegetius
Vegetius's picture

“War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen, and I say let us give them
all they want.”-  W.T Sherman

The building of more and more surveillance is and will be counter productive. In Northern Ireland the British forces employed both manned and unmanned surveillance of large parts of the six counties to little effect in relation to bombing campaigns. Militant combatants will adjust to the conditions in front of them, exactly the same as any two armies locked in a long war. If the USA wishes to fight the type of wars that it is pursuing in the Middle East and beyond it will have to look to change the way it fights these conflicts

The first and second Chechen wars are interesting examples of two very different war fighting. The first war was fought on the Vietnam Afghan model of hearts and minds and minimal casualties, a total fiasco. The second was fought along the lines of Russian operations during the Second World War, Total War. The loss of life in Grozny was 80,000+ the country areas suffered even more. The Russian forces then employed standard British Raj tactics of supporting one faction of Chechens and giving them carte-blanc to deal with anyone. This tactic worked very well for the UK in Afghanistan for over 100 years, the fact that these warlords killed and tourtured all other tribal group was ignored. The British took the lessons of Rome to heart "They make a desert and call it peace.” and this is the lesson of any major power, you must be willing to do these things and worse to push your agenda, that is the way it is.

“You might as well appeal against a thunderstorm as against these terrible hardships of war. War is cruelty, there is no use trying to reform it; the crueler it is, the sooner it will be over.”- W.T Sherman

 

Sun, 04/21/2013 - 12:41 | 3480408 imbtween
imbtween's picture

Or something

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 22:01 | 3478975 imbtween
imbtween's picture

Dude was a fuken TANK!

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 20:44 | 3478742 The Second Rule
Sat, 04/20/2013 - 19:07 | 3478469 IamtheREALmario
IamtheREALmario's picture

The rule of war SHOULD be that any two leaders desiring war should be forced to fight each other to the death ... and when it is over everyone should go home and get back to minding their own business.  More leaders want to fight, then have them kill each other off ... until there are no more psychopaths who want war.

Sun, 04/21/2013 - 20:14 | 3481813 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

mario, child, go back to playing games. don't cha' know. - Ned

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 20:23 | 3478680 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

Putin v. Obama, eh?  We better start learning Russian.

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 19:20 | 3478484 knukles
knukles's picture

And if the winner wants to walk off the field of battle full of bluster and demanding more war, the whole of the 82nd Airborne wipes his ass off the Earth, likewise.

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 18:23 | 3478350 rwl160
rwl160's picture

my coworker the day after the bombing was visibly upset about the events and asked me who would do such and thing and why...my response.....

you go around the world blowing upshit.. and killing people...and don't think there will be anger blowback of other people wanting to blowup shit and kill people here...

pay backs a bitch baby...

 

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 21:45 | 3478939 Blame Crash
Blame Crash's picture

I wouldn't call it "pay back"

I'd call it a "naturally occuring event"

 

 

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 19:17 | 3478481 knukles
knukles's picture

One person in my family made a similar comment at work and was looked at like she was a conspirator to something or other that which is not very good... and this is in Kalifornia!

Shit like this when said at the wrong time, during phases of "national duress" is quite telling when the response of folks when they'd normally bluster about the same thing turn onto the defensive.
But see, it's a singularity of proof that the Dialectic and fright perpetration work just fine amongst the weak and thoughtless.
Particularly where people are light upon character and principles.

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