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Why America Fell So Far … So Fast

George Washington's picture





 

Thomas Edison said, “Dissent is the highest form of patriotism.”   And because I love my country, I frequently criticize America’s shortcomings in the hopes of making her better.

But the truth is that the United States is not unusual … it is just like all other empires which have hit their peak and then quickly crashed.

We noted in 2008:

Political insider and veteran reporter Kevin Phillips has documented that every major empire over the past several hundred years has undergone a predictable cycle of collapse, usually within 10 to 20 years of its peak power.

 

The indications are always the same:

- The financialization of the economy, moving from manufacturing to speculation;

 

- Very high levels of debt;

 

- Extreme economic inequality;

 

– And costly military overreaching.

We wrote in 2009:

In 2000, America was described as the sole remaining superpower – or even the world’s “hyperpower”. Now we’re in real trouble (at the very least, you have to admit that we’re losing power and wealth in comparison with China).

 

How did it happen so fast?

 

***

 

How Empires Fall

 

Paul Farrel provides a bigger-picture analysis, quoting Jared Diamond and Marc Faber.

 

Diamond’s book’s, Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed, studies the collapse of civilizations throughout history, and finds:

Civilizations share a sharp curve of decline. Indeed, a society’s demise may begin only a decade or two after it reaches its peak population, wealth and power…

 

One of the choices has depended on the courage to practice long-term thinking, and to make bold, courageous, anticipatory decisions at a time when problems have become perceptible but before they reach crisis proportions

And PhD economist Faber states:

How [am I] so sure about this final collapse?

 

Of all the questions I have about the future, this is the easiest one to answer. Once a society becomes successful it becomes arrogant, righteous, overconfident, corrupt, and decadent … overspends … costly wars … wealth inequity and social tensions increase; and society enters a secular decline.

 

[Quoting 18th century Scottish historian Alexander Fraser Tytler:] The average life span of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years progressing from “bondage to spiritual faith … to great courage … to liberty … to abundance … to selfishness … to complacency … to apathy … to dependence and … back into bondage”

 

[Where is America in the cycle?] It is most unlikely that Western societies, and especially the U.S., will be an exception to this typical “society cycle.” … The U.S. is somewhere between the phase where it moves “from complacency to apathy” and “from apathy to dependence.”

In other words, America’s rapid fall is not really that novel after all.

 

How Consumers, Politicians and Wall Street All Contributed to the Fall

 

On the individual level, people became “fat and happy”, the abundance led to selfishness (“greed is good”), and then complacency, and then apathy.

 

Indeed, if you think back about tv and radio ads over the last couple of decades, you can trace the tone of voice of the characters from Gordon Gecko-like, to complacent, to apathetic and know-nothing.

 

On the political level, there was no courage in the White House or Congress “to practice long-term thinking, and to make bold, courageous, anticipatory decisions”. Of course, the bucket-loads of donations from Wall Street didn’t hurt, but there was also a religion of deregulation promoted by Greenspan, Rubin, Gensler and others which preached that the economy was self-stabilizing and self-sustaining. This type of false ideology only can spread during times of abundance and complacency, when an empire is at its peak and people can fool themselves into thinking “the empire has always been prosperous, we’ve solved all of the problems, and we will always prosper” (incidentally, this type of false thinking was also common in the 1920′s, when government and financial leaders said that the “modern banking system” – overseen by the Federal Reserve – had destroyed instability once and for all).

 

And as for Wall Street, the best possible time to pillage is when your victim is at the peak of wealth. With America in a huge bubble phase of wealth and power, the Wall Street looters sucked out vast sums through fraudulent subprime loans, derivatives and securitization schemes, Ponzi schemes and high frequency trading and dark pools and all of the rest.

 

Like the mugger who waits until his victim has made a withdrawal from the ATM, the white collar criminals pounced when America’s economy was booming (at least on paper).

 

Given that the people were in a contented stupor of consumption, and the politicians were flush with cash and feel-good platitudes, the job of the criminals became easier.

 

A study of the crash of the Roman – or almost any other – empire would show something very similar.

We pointed out in 2010 that more empires have fallen due to reckless finance than invasion.  (Whichever side of the stimulus-austerity debate you agree with, spending walls of money on things which neither help people or stimulate the economy is idiotic.)

Inequality was – indeed – .   In fact, inequality in America today is twice as bad as in ancient Rome , worse than it was in in Tsarist Russia, Gilded Age America, modern Egypt, Tunisia or Yemen, many banana republics in Latin America, and worse than experienced by slaves in 1774 colonial America.

Finacialization? Yup, we’ve got that in spades …  Economist Steve Keen has also shown that “a sustainable level of bank profits appears to be about 1% of GDP”, and that higher bank profits leads to a ponzi economy and a depression).  But government policy has been encouraging the growth of the financial sector for decades:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-2DxXTVc4xnc/USfwvMBlO-I/AAAAAAAAB_Y/a1dyx_5U5Hs/s1600/financial+and+nonfinancial+sectors+-+compensation+Les+Leopold.jpg

Corruption? Check … the government and big banks are all wallowing in a pig sty of criminal fraud.  The economy has been hollowed out due to looting and fraud. And our institutions are .  They are so corrupt and oppressive that people are more afraid of the government than of terrorists.

The bigger the bubble, the bigger crash … and we’ve just come out of the biggest bubble in history.

Costly military overreaching?  Definitely…

The war in Iraq – which will end up costing between $5  and $6 trillion dollars – was launched based upon false justifications. Indeed, the government apparently planned both the Afghanistan war (see this and this) and the Iraq war before 9/11.

It is ironic that our military is what made us a superpower, but our huge military is bankrupting us … thus destroying our status as an empire.

Empires which fight “one too many wars” always collapse:

“Just one more surge!” — The Indus

 

“Just one more surge!” — The Kushan

 

“Just one more surge!” — The Scythians

 

“Just one more surge!” — The Parthians

 

“Just one more surge!” — The Saffarid

 

“Just one more surge!” — The Ghaznavid

 

“Just one more surge!” — The Ghorid

 

“Just one more surge!” — The Timurid

 

“Just one more surge!” — The Hotaki

 

“Just one more surge!” — The Durrani

 

“Just one more surge!” — The Aryan

 

“Just one more surge!” — The Persians

 

“Just one more surge!” — The Sassanids

 

“Just one more surge!” — The Hephthalites

 

“Just one more surge!” — The Huns

 

“Just one more surge!” — The Mughals

 

“Just one more surge!” — The Arabs

 

“Just one more surge!” — The Turkic

 

“Just one more surge!” — The Hazaras

 

“Just one more surge!” — The Khwarezmids

 

“Just one more surge!” — The Mongols

 

“Just one more surge!” — The British

 

“Just one more surge!” — The British (again)

 

“Just one more surge!” — The British (Yet again)

 

“Just one more surge!” — The USSR

 

“Just one more surge!” — The United States

 


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Wed, 05/08/2013 - 12:49 | Link to Comment Kastorsky
Kastorsky's picture

Why America Fell So Far … So Fast

one word - jews

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 13:09 | Link to Comment Joseph Jones
Joseph Jones's picture

Behold!  All hail your jew slave masters:

http://thezog.wordpress.com/who-controls-the-economy/

Could we maybe switch and try the next 50 years with someone else ruling over us than these Jesus-hating Jesus-denying Satanic-sycophant jews? 

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 12:39 | Link to Comment Dodgy Geezer
Dodgy Geezer's picture

"...All Empires Crash Soon After They Reach Their Peak..."

 

This might just be a self-defining truism  - all empires expand until they fall, so by definition they were at their park just before their fall. Usually it's supply lines and communication lines which fail.

The Roman and British Empires are a couple of exceptions. Rome took about 400 years to fall, and the British about 60-  it was at its peak around 1880/90, and kept running quite happily throughout the Edwardian period - often called the 'Evening of Empire". It was only forcibly closed down by the US after WW2, when the Brits owed us war debt they were having difficulty repaying, and we took advantage of their weak condition to break up all their trading links so that we could move in and make a killing...

 

If the US ever had an empire (which I doubt, because military strutting does not make an Empire, you actually have to go out and build it) it was a remarkably short-lived one. And I'm not sure when its 'peak' would be...

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 12:05 | Link to Comment shutdown
shutdown's picture

For some strange reason powerful empires attack and invade Afghanistan right before they collapse. What's up with that? 

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 11:39 | Link to Comment Aegelis
Aegelis's picture

Untouched empires rise and decline cyclically.  Externally molested empires vanish.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 11:25 | Link to Comment Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

Classical Tainter collapse.

 

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 11:18 | Link to Comment shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

Bail outs for degenerate gamblers and QE's to pump them up was the crossing of the Rubicon from which there was no return.

We took the snake oil instead of the medicine

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 11:41 | Link to Comment bbaez
bbaez's picture

"Bought & Paid for Politicians" have given away our future to Bailouts, Corporate Welfare and Tax Breaks for their benafactors

We must vote every politician out of office and start the push for election reform as well as tax reform

When we talk about the USA becoming Greece we have to talk about the Crooked Politicians FROM BOTH SIDES OF THE ISLE that are taking us there with Bailouts, Corporate Welfare and Tax Breaks for their benafactors

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 12:39 | Link to Comment Panafrican Funk...
Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

You may want to take a look at this, helps explain where you're at and where you need to get:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=P772Eb63qIY

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 11:41 | Link to Comment bbaez
bbaez's picture

"Bought & Paid for Politicians" have given away our future to Bailouts, Corporate Welfare and Tax Breaks for their benafactors

We must vote every politician out of office and start the push for election reform as well as tax reform

When we talk about the USA becoming Greece we have to talk about the Crooked Politicians FROM BOTH SIDES OF THE ISLE that are taking us there with Bailouts, Corporate Welfare and Tax Breaks for their benafactors

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 10:46 | Link to Comment Mike Cowan
Mike Cowan's picture

Don't worry, once we learn Spanish, all will be well. Besides, we still let women vote, and we have the Rodio Clown to guide us into prosperity. One final sun beam: the Democrats rule the Senate and the White House.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 10:36 | Link to Comment Sigep0612
Sigep0612's picture

Americans have a defined view of their current lives as normal and expect that normality to continue ad infinitum.  The Current Belief: Go to college..get an education, get a good job, buy a house, work your ass off and pay your dues, increase your income, buy a bigger house, go on spring break, buy a cottage, retire and die.  

Truth:  College is worthless because you paid $200K in tuition for a job that pays $52K a year and you'll spend the rest of your life paying back the obscene student loan.  There are millions of people like you so you end up buying a condo in a multi family unit.  Corporations are increasing salaries by 2% or less so you really can't afford to sock away big money for retirment. Then you decide "what the heck" and take the family on spring break that only costs you $7492 which you put on a Credit Card.  By this time it's 2039 and you're 50 and the government has decided that you're not taxed enough so every increase in salary is consumed by inflation and taxes.   You tell the kids that you can't afford to help them with college and encourage them to become plumbers or electricians who by that time are making $150K a year and working 30 hours a week.  The kids look at you like your Greek and say "I don't want to work that hard."   Looking at your finances you realize you can't retire.  Then one day you're riding the train into the city and you feel a slight pain in your left arm.  The train stops and you get off.  Suddenly, the pain increases and your last thought is...thanks God for not making me suffer.  

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 11:12 | Link to Comment shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

And the unaware Lara walks away as Zhivago dies in the street.

The End.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 10:19 | Link to Comment Blue Dog
Blue Dog's picture

Totally worthless article. America fell so fast because so many people with power have been determined to destroy it. The educational system embraced atheism, communism, and reverse racism. Free trade with China has destroyed our economic base. Government spending has bankrupted the country while getting more and more people dependent on it. 

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 10:05 | Link to Comment Keynesian Mess
Keynesian Mess's picture

"All Empires Crash Soon After They Reach Their Peak"

No one calls it a peak until after the recognition of the crash, then everyone says, "Oh look, a black swan!"

Great article, but it's a good thing that it's different this time.

No?

Are you sure?  That's what they're telling me, and they wouldn't lie, would they?

Would they?

.

.

.

Uh oh...

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 09:58 | Link to Comment Walt D.
Walt D.'s picture

You forgot debasement of the currency.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 10:11 | Link to Comment cynicalskeptic
cynicalskeptic's picture

shhhhhhh... you're not supposed to notice.  

Hell, most people don't even remember that the US once HAD 'real' money - not that it would matter if we'd kept it......   we'd have less gold and silver in coins from the Mint than those 'replicas' from China if we did (though THAT would have been pretty blatant 'debasement' and officially meriting the death penalty.

Funny how we went from gold and silver to 'notes payable in gold and silver' to 'trust us, it's worth something' (the serious debasement/inflation started with the 'trust us, it's worth something' paper - they're now being very flexible with their definition of 'something')

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 09:57 | Link to Comment rwe2late
rwe2late's picture

 The fatal flaw may not apply only to individual societies, but to humankind itself.

Humans organize, and concurrently develop a belief system to support that organization. Those who head organizations and the organizations they head use their position to promote themselves and their organizations (by way of reinforcing beliefs and acquiring more power).

A belief system and organization based on maximum conquest, plundering of nature, and propagation has worked "successfully" to give growth to an increasingly unbalanced human materialism and population.

However, both the organizations and the supportive and supported belief systems resist change. Historically, because of isolated human societies, collapses were more or less localized. Historically, humans have always been unable to make adaptations outside the parameters of their basic beliefs and organization.

A global collapse appears to be destined along with humankind's "success" in conquering the planet. There will be one more and one last species that humanity will succeed in making extinct.

That may be more pessimistic than Diamond's view on collapses, but such does always seem to be the logical conclusion to unreasonable human behavior.

But perhaps there will be a dramatic improvement in human behavior.

What are the odds? Certainly too late and too little in our lifetimes. 

 

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 10:12 | Link to Comment cynicalskeptic
cynicalskeptic's picture

Many take pride in being 'Dinosaurs' - if only humans had as long a run.....

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 09:32 | Link to Comment Craxi
Craxi's picture

ZH'ers..it is common to chronicle the demise of America.

I am interested in a path forward. Lead..Follow..Or Get the Hell Out of the Way.

Our disillusionment can go only so far. I don't pretend to have answers. But damned if I'll go down with the ship.

 

 

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 13:14 | Link to Comment Panafrican Funk...
Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

"I am interested in a path forward."

#1:

http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer

It would be a lot easier to live with this as a taxation scheme.  Some good practical examples of where roughly similar systems are currently in place:

Alaska

Florida

Nevada

New Hampshire

South Dakota

Tennessee

Texas

Washington State

Wyoming

Basically, no income tax.

#2:

http://banknd.nd.gov/

Basically replacing the federal reserve with a public bank similar to the BND model, and returning the money printing function to the treasury department.  

I'm not saying satisfying #1 and #2 would solve everything (far from it), but we'd be in a lot better shape if we had something like this in place.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 10:19 | Link to Comment JOYFUL
JOYFUL's picture

Then jump n swim!

Here on the fringes of empire... resistors gather in loose bands of fighting men... waiting for the horn blasts which will signal time to ride and take back Rohan and the fallen lands of the west...

from the Wormtongues and twisted orc-like creatures who enforce Mordor's mandate upon you.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 09:58 | Link to Comment SmallerGovNow2
SmallerGovNow2's picture

1) ramp the federal govt down to constitutional principles.

2) repeal anti small business regulations and simplify the tax code (flat tax).

3) stop military interventionist policies.

4) eliminate alphabet soup federal agencies (DOE, DHS, EPA, etc...) states can take care of this.

5) eliminate ALL federal welfare - this is a states issue.

6) eliminate the fed, return to sound money, stop TBTF bailouts, and break up the banks.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 09:15 | Link to Comment Kina
Kina's picture

Once a society becomes successful it becomes arrogant, righteous, overconfident, corrupt, and decadent … overspends … costly wars … wealth inequity and social tensions increase

 

Yep the USA has all of them. Now the public more and more hoping for the era when they can stretch the neck of the elites.

 

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 09:01 | Link to Comment RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

I got my popcorn.  Bring on the demise.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 08:11 | Link to Comment ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Ah Rome...

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 06:28 | Link to Comment Weisbrot
Weisbrot's picture

and all this time I thought it was a self serving corrupt government that was and is at the root cause of most of the societies problems going back hundreds of years

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 09:50 | Link to Comment cynicalskeptic
cynicalskeptic's picture

Government isn't NEARLY as corrupt when serving only those in it..... 'self-serving governments' are usually smart enough not to kill the host that nourishes them.  

It's only when government is serving a select few in a society that the host will be bled dry for the oligrchy can always move on to a new host.  I suspect that nobody in government has the power or ability to say 'no more' to those behind the scenes pulling their strings (unless they wish to bring their own existence to a premature end).   Isn't tht the choice offered to those in politics by the jackals - Be rich or be dead?  Read Perkins' 'Confessions of an Econmic Hit Man" and  "The Secret Hisotory of American Empire"

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 06:18 | Link to Comment Shevva
Shevva's picture

And witht he USs love for all things violent it'll end badly either internally or more likely globally.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 04:41 | Link to Comment Joe A
Joe A's picture

It is amazing to see that human kind does not learn from history.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 00:56 | Link to Comment WTFUD
WTFUD's picture

It's very disconcerting that folks still don't get it that the four walls ( if your lucky ) are all that's between you and destitution. Forget USA, UK etc and all that patriotic B.S. The reality is that the Global Bankstas/ Elite fly around the world selling off every hard asset ( 100 times over in some cases) leaving 90% without a pot to piss in. The crafty buggers managed this while you were on your social media outlets of Facebook and Ipaddythingy ordering your buy one get another one half price Pizza. If you still don't get it ask your mum when she gets in from the Bingo ( wink wink ); she's been stripping at the new titty bar ever since your dad lost his job at Wallymart.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 00:52 | Link to Comment JOYFUL
JOYFUL's picture

As of Suez, 1956, there were no more 'empires'... only the Sionist Imperium.

With it's agents of influence planted firmly in all seats of power... the Soviet Union, England, America... etc., it has exercised it's domination of the planet unchallenged for more than half a century...

except by the small actions of people of conscience.

http://whatreallyhappened.com/content/stephen-hawking-joins-academic-boy...

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 13:47 | Link to Comment Joseph Jones
Joseph Jones's picture

The entire edifice, the entire foundation of jew dominance hinges on one lie: holocaustianity, which the jews used to replace their murder of Christ as mankind's worst crime.  They started telling this lie of "6M dead innocent jews" early 20th C and it finally stuck decades later thanks to Hitler. 

Remove holocaustianity and the entire deck of cards falls.

Hence the invention of new lexicon (holocaust) reserved for only jews.

Hence thought crimes/imprisonment in Canada and 17 EU nations for "denial."

Hence the term holocaust "denier" stifling debate and causing all non-believers to be on the defensive.

Hence the term "anti-Semite" hurled toward all critics, equating critics as mass murdering mini-Hitlers.

Hence holocuat deniers in prison without debate while jews debate everything else to death upside down backward forward to death over and over again ad infinitum. 

Hence a judaized western world where every religion in the world is mocked endlessly especially Jesus Christ but never ever any academic studies on the hatred and instutionalized bigotry of Judaism.

etc, etc etc.....

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 16:07 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

Go back to Stormfront with your vile and racist historical revisionist lies.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 18:36 | Link to Comment Joseph Jones
Joseph Jones's picture

From the Talmud, and the Rabbis don't even deny this vs:

"Even the best of the gentiles deserve only death."

In the Judaized west apparently the above is not "hate speech" while "holocaust denial" is thought crime for which persons rot in prison.

Why pray tell does something so (alledegly) obviously true (holocaust) require thought crime for simply denying it? 

Are you OK with Christ denial crimes, or are such thought crimes reserved only for jews?  Who else besides jews get away with salvation by race without being laughed off the stage of history? 

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 17:17 | Link to Comment TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

akak said:

Go back to Stormfront with your vile and racist historical revisionist lies.

You'd think that by now, people would be getting just a little bit better at spotting the divide-and-conquer manipulations wielded against them.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 00:15 | Link to Comment TheObsoleteMan
TheObsoleteMan's picture

The best way to destroy a country is from within. First, destroy them morally. Once that is done, the nation is like a ripe fruit, ready to be plucked. Mission accomplished. I think it was Lenin who said;"Destroy the family, destroy the nation". A country with no moral pinning is doomed. We are not Rome, we are Babylon. The seeds of our destruction were sown many decades ago, and the harvest is ready. The end is much closer than most realize.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 21:42 | Link to Comment Joseph Jones
Joseph Jones's picture

"Babylon" in Revelation is John's word for Jerusalem.  Why/how?  Peter lived in Jerusalem, Peter never lived in Babylon as far as we know, and yet John mentions this is where Peter lived (Babylon).  In the 1st CAD Babylon was very sparsely populated, yet John refers to "Babylon" in Revelation as being highly populated as was Jerusalem.  John refers to Jerusalem as Babylon because Jerusalem was the harlot who turned against God and killed God's blessed Son Jesus the Christ who reigns forever Amen.

John in Rev. states the Temple was still standing at the time he wrote it, just 3-5 years (IIRC) prior to Nero destroying the Hebrew (Ioudaios) temple.  So whatever is the time period to which John refers, it can only be prior to 70 AD, not after 70 AD.  Constantine started Romanism in the 4th CAD.  So John can not refer to Romanism and John can not refer to today or any future era.    

John's language is the "time of the end" (of the Mosaic/Levitical era), not the "end of time." It was the end of God dealing with his "physical" special people the Hebrews/Ioudaios.  Since 70AD, the only reference to "Hebrew" anything, to "Ioudaios" anything is historical, of a past bygone era.  John's gospel states "Spirit is God!"  (he invertst the nounds to emphasize the words "Spirirt."  "God desires those to worship hHim in Spirit and in truth."  There is no more "worship" (proskuneo-Gk) in the temporal domain.  There is no word properly translated "church" as "church" is commonly understood today.  

The OT Temple housed the shikinah glory of God, the arc of the physical covenant (tablets), and the altar and the holy of holies wherein the Levite priest had to enter with a rope tied around his ankle to pull him out in case he died in there.  Non-Levites could not enter this place or they'd be sgtruck dead.  God would kill the Levite preist if the God rejected the offering. 

The OT clearly states the physical planet earth goes on forever.  Interestingly, it does not state man goes on forever.  Although it does equate the number of believers with the grains of sand, which is an awful lot, and I can only presume outnumbers the number of believers to date. 

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 02:26 | Link to Comment boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

....A country that accepts homosexuality and kills it's babies.

That's right, attack the Christian, now, instead of relating this to morality.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 03:19 | Link to Comment BringOnTheAsteroid
BringOnTheAsteroid's picture

Homosexuality is immoral ???? The christian is truly a bastion of illogical thinking. It's just that you don't like it when a bloke sticks his dick into another mans ass right? I mean, neither do I but I don't really fancy sticking my dick into a girls ass either. Does a christian consider anal sex with a women immoral? What about getting a blow job from a women, is that immoral? I mean mouths were meant for praising the lord with weren't they, not sucking some bloke off ?????

The very, very , very sad thing is that you are not basing your criteria for morality on the information that we have today, on the lessons that we have learnt from history, on the education that we are so privileged to have received. You're basing your criteria for morality on a 2000 year old text written by people who probably slayed babies themselves. Ultimately all these Abrahamic faiths will prove to be a dead end in human developement just like all faiths that have preceeded. All faiths eventually die out because education, predominantly science, makes obsolete the precepts of the belief. Science doesn't do this out of malice or with any intent against religion, it just does and this is what we call progress. 

We as individuals cannot accept or even entertain the notion that we are truly fucking stupid and religious belief systems are nothing more than the equivalent of a program running on the hardware of our brain. The programming of a human takes so long from such an early age that the belief becomes inseperable from the identity, so an attack on the belief is an attack on the person. Very few people are mature enough, dare I say wise enough, to be able to spend a life time holding to a belief but say: "You know what, this really is fucking stupid" and drop it. We can't do this. It will take centuries before the human mind is freed from the shackles of false belief, false hope and above all fear. If you want proof that fundamentally you are scared to death of your god say out loud or write the following: "god is a cunt". Bet you can't do it, the fear runs so very deep. To live a life in perpetual fear (even if you don't admit it) is something that should be pitied, not celebrated.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 18:56 | Link to Comment TheObsoleteMan
TheObsoleteMan's picture

Dr.Josef Mengele was an educated man of science.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 01:12 | Link to Comment BringOnTheAsteroid
BringOnTheAsteroid's picture

There's no point making these tired and done to death arguments. Yes, Mengle was an educated man of science, but did he go to religious studies as a child, attend a church as an adult. Science is the only method of learning about the world that works. Science as a methodology is the only way to progress knowledge, that works. What people do with this knowledge is an entirely different matter. Humans are fucked up. Psycopaths will find their way into power whether that be in politics, science or religion. Take the human being out of the picture for a moment and think of the doctrines in a purely empirical manner.  Religion is dentined to the dustbin of history purely on the basis alone that it detests change. Science embraces change as long as experimantal evidence supports this change independent of the hurt feelings of scientists.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 01:12 | Link to Comment BringOnTheAsteroid
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There's no point making these tired and done to death arguments. Yes, Mengle was an educated man of science, but did he go to religious studies as a child, attend a church as an adult. Science is the only method of learning about the world that works. Science as a methodology is the only way to progress knowledge, that works. What people do with this knowledge is an entirely different matter. Humans are fucked up. Psycopaths will find their way into power whether that be in politics, science or religion. Take the human being out of the picture for a moment and think of the doctrines in a purely empirical manner.  Religion is dentined to the dustbin of history purely on the basis alone that it detests change. Science embraces change as long as experimantal evidence supports this change independent of the hurt feelings of scientists.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 04:48 | Link to Comment boogerbently
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.....and the "issue" was morality.

I pre-warned you about the Christian thing and you STILL got off track.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 13:05 | Link to Comment imapopulistnow
imapopulistnow's picture

"Religion is the opiate of the masses."  Ever consider that, while true, this is a good thing? 

It surely beats having crackheads, crystal crushers and hillbilly heroin addicts.

 


   
Wed, 05/08/2013 - 07:34 | Link to Comment BringOnTheAsteroid
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What is considered moral by one person may be considered immoral by another. There is no absolute truth. The concept of "absolute" anything is a by-product of human thought. Think mother nature gives a fuck about morals. Mother nature is a complex system that only cares about survival. Mother nature is a system that one would be hard pressed to argue doesn't work exceptionally well. Kill the weak, allow the strong to reproduce. From this the most incredible complexity has arisen. I too am continually struck by how brutal and uncaring life really is, particularly in the animal kingdom. Where we would be compelled to run to the aid of an injured animal mother nature will actively set out to mame and kill the victim, brutally, savagely, coldly. If I find my emotions retching at the thought the problem lies with me. This system has worked, end of story. I often wonder in other parts of the universe if complex life has arisen whether this strategy present on earth of eat or be eaten, kill or be killed is unique or if it is in fact a prerequiste of life.

Morals, we'll argue to the end of time as to what constitues moral behaviour. This fact alone means there are no absolute morals. If there were, if these absolute morals existed we'd simply have nothing to debate. Strange isn't. The absolute irony of arguing about absolute morals in fact proves absolute morals don't exist. No one argues about the value of pi or the inverse square law or anything for that matter that is really there. Humans are still struggling with the infancy of their minds. If we do make it as a species and I highly doubt this, it will take centuries still before there is any sort of collective intelligence. 

The topic of aborting babies, what a hot topic that is. If you think there is some over arching sanctity to human life then sure, you'd think aborting babies is abhorrent. Yet here-in-lies another great irony of the human condition. How many pro-lifers do you know gives a flying fuck about that baby after it's born and saved from abortion. Oh sure, they might pay lip service to caring about it, but how many actually do anything, no matter how small, for thast baby after it's born.  You see, the majority of pro-lifers (as indeed the majority of all people) would not want their own life fucked up by some stranger with possibly behavioural disorders, addictions, mental disorders or by just being there. This is the sad reality of humans. We care, mnostly about ourselves, our family and our friends and everyone else can simply go get fucked. This is reality. I don't like it either. So unless you are personally prepared to devote your life to caring for a baby you have saved from abortion then this is the answer you desperately seek as to whether abortion is right or not.

Reality exists just outside the very small volume of our skulls. You dont have to like it, you just have to survive it long enouigh to reproduce.

 

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 17:32 | Link to Comment Reci
Reci's picture

I find it amazing in a sad way that your posts aren't considered common knowledge but instead incite debate like global warming.  The obvious culprit is that most people don't live in a wholly reality based existence due to its extreme harshness.  As a result, they attach themselves to ideologies (or parents do) which help to blunt the sharp edges and make the discomfort easier to handle.  Unfortunately, these ideologies are like language translators in a foreign world where people can't see things for what they really are but only through the interpreted understanding of the chosen ideology.  The real downside being that the most common ideologies are at the extreme end of reality in most aspects which means solutions to their identified "problems" usually creates bigger alternative problems.

Great moniker. As disturbing as it may be, it's posts like yours (although not economic based) that make Zero Hedge a great site to find truths and valuable opinions of all kinds. 

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 01:55 | Link to Comment BringOnTheAsteroid
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 Normally I like to just read the comments, I find them entertaining and enlightening as well. I am sort of sick to death though of bible quoters and religious nuts, seriously, I am just over them.  Jesus and allah and whatever or whoever else has been done to death. The mania that permates our species with god delusions, to quote Dawkins, is in itself a fascinating topic and worthy of study. It would be truly fascinating to unravel the brain structure that creates these thoughts and ideas beyond that which is already understood such as the need to belong to a group. It may also be growing pains so to speak as the conciousness mind matures. It may be because we are the result of sexual reproduction, that is, we come from someone else. The god is to the adult as the adult is to the child. It may be an emotion the runs to the very core of our being. I often wonder if we were asexual whether we'd still have the need to belong to something "else".  

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 06:49 | Link to Comment overmedicatedun...
overmedicatedundersexed's picture

asteroid, you speak as a true Eyes wide shut. you are an example of educatated beyond your IQ. let me ask you in attempt to break the concrete of your conditioning...Is DNA information? Is DNA a program for life? who is the programer, who or what came first? the information, the programer or the DNA? truth lies in the DNA. That who some call g o d is beyond our comprehension, beyond science, yet IS.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 13:27 | Link to Comment Joseph Jones
Joseph Jones's picture

Asteroid wrote: "...There is no absolute truth..."

Just so readers can be crystal clear how stupid or smart is the above statement:

Is your statement "absolutely" true?

I do not apologize for exposing the "religion" or "faith" of someone who condemns both, especially with so much misplaced, hypocritical certainty.

You lie by attaching unquestioned religious faith (sacralsim) to a statement that denies spiritual (absolute) truth.  You use spiritual language associated with a god-head (all-knowingness) to deny god.  Your religion is imbecilic and stupid in the extreme. 

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