More Foreclosures and Suicides than During the Great Depression

George Washington's picture


The San Francisco Chronicle notes that it is difficult to keep track of foreclosure rates now … let alone during the Great Depression:

Foreclosure rates of the late 2000s are often compared with those of the Great Depression, which took place through the first half of the 1930s. However, there were no public or private agencies keeping track of foreclosure rates at that time. Indeed, the government still does not keep an official statistic on the number of homes in foreclosure or repossessed by banks and lenders.

But the Chronicle provides estimates of foreclosures during the 1930s:

A 2008 article by David C. Wheelock, an economist at the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis, cited annual reports issued by the Federal Home Loan Bank Board during the 1930s. These reports reveal that the foreclosure rate exceeded 1 percent from 1931 until 1935. At the worst point in the Depression-era economic crisis, in 1933, about 1,000 home loans were being placed in foreclosure by banks every day.

How does that compare to the last 5 years?

RealtyTrac notes (via North Carolina State University) that:

From January 2007 to December 2011 there were more than four million completed foreclosures and more than 8.2 million foreclosure starts ….

CoreLogic reported a year ago:

Approximately 1.4 million homes, or 3.4 percent of all homes with a mortgage, were in the national foreclosure inventory as of May 2012 compared to 1.5 million, or 3.5 percent, in May 2011 and 1.4 million, or 3.4 percent, in April 2012. The foreclosure inventory is the share of all mortgaged homes in some stage of the foreclosure process.

Given that there are currently around 316 million Americans – more than twice the number during the Great Depression – such high foreclosure rates mean that there may well be as many people suffering foreclosure than during the Great Depression … or more.

And NBC News reported this month:

Already some 5 million homes have been lost to foreclosure; estimates of future foreclosures range widely. [Moody's Analytics chief economist Mark Zandi], who has followed the mortgage mess since the housing market began to crack in 2006, figures foreclosures will strike another three million homes in the next three or four years.

For more comparisons of the Great Depression and today, see:

More Americans Committing Suicide than During the Great Depression


Suicide rates are tied to the economy.

The Boston Globe reported in 2011:

A new report issued today by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention finds that the overall suicide rate rises and falls with the state of the economy — dating all the way back to the Great Depression.


The report, published in the American Journal of Public Health, found that suicide rates increased in times of economic crisis: the Great Depression (1929-1933), the end of the New Deal (1937-1938), the Oil Crisis (1973-1975), and the Double-Dip Recession (1980-1982). Those rates tended to fall during strong economic times — with fast growth and low unemployment — like right after World War II and during the 1990s.

During the depths of the Great Depression, suicide rates in America significantly increased. As the Globe notes:

The largest increase in the US suicide rate occurred during the Great Depression surging from 18 in 100,000 up to 22 in 100,000

We’ve previously pointed out that suicide rates have skyrocketed recently:

The number of deaths by suicide has also surpassed car crashes, and many connect the increase in suicides to the downturn in the economy. Around 35,000 Americans kill themselves each year (and more American soldiers die by suicide than combat; the number of veterans committing suicide is astronomical and under-reported). So you’re 2,059 times more likely to kill yourself than die at the hand of a terrorist.

NBC News reported in March:

Suicide rates are up alarmingly among middle-aged Americans, according to the latest federal government statistics.

They show a 28 percent rise in suicide rates for people aged 35 to 64 between 1999 and 2010.

RT reports:

In a letter to The Lancet medical journal, scientists from Britain, Hong Kong and United States said an analysis of data from Centers for Disease Control and Prevention indicated that while suicide rates increased slowly between 1999 and 2007, the rate of increase more than quadrupled from 2008 to 2010, Reuters reported.

Earlier this month, NY Daily News wrote:

The Great Recession may have been at the root of a great depression that caused suicides to soar among middle-aged Americans, a government report speculates.


The annual suicide rate for adults ages 35 to 64 spiked in the past decade, according to a study from the U.S. Centers for Disease

Control and Prevention.


And a shaky economy that nose-dived into the worst financial crisis since the Depression may be the biggest reason why.




The CDC’s Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report said the annual suicide rate jumped 28.4% from 1999-2010.


It was the biggest increase of any age group, said the CDC, citing “the recent economic downturn” as one of the “possible contributing factors” for the increase.


“Historically, suicide rates tend to correlate with business cycles, with higher rates observed during times of economic hardship,” the report said.

David Stuckler (a senior research leader in sociology at Oxford), and Sanjay Basu (an assistant professor of medicine and an epidemiologist in the Prevention Research Center at Stanford), write in the New York Times:

The correlation between unemployment and suicide has been observed since the 19th century.

(And see these articles by the Wall Street Journal and the Los Angeles Times.   This is obviously true world-wide.  For example, last year the New York Times reported:

The economic downturn that has shaken Europe for the last three years has also swept away the foundations of once-sturdy lives, leading to an alarming spike in suicide rates. Especially in the most fragile nations like Greece, Ireland and Italy, small-business owners and entrepreneurs are increasingly taking their own lives in a phenomenon some European newspapers have started calling “suicide by economic crisis.”




In Greece, the suicide rate among men increased more than 24 percent from 2007 to 2009, government statistics show. In Ireland during the same period, suicides among men rose more than 16 percent. In Italy, suicides motivated by economic difficulties have increased 52 percent, to 187 in 2010 — the most recent year for which statistics were available — from 123 in 2005.)

Indeed, more Americans are killing themselves today than during the Great Depression. Specifically, there were were 123 million Americans in 1930.  The maximum suicide rate during the depths of the Great Depression was 22 out of 100,000  Americans.  That means that up to  27,060 Americans killed themselves each year.

In contrast, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control reports that 38,364 Americans committed suicide in 2010. In other words, 2010 suicides were approximately 142% of suicides during the depths of the Great Depression. (The suicide rate is lower today than during the Great Depression, but – given that there are more Americans – there are more suicides each year.)

The head of my local county’s mental health services confirmed to me today that there are now more suicides now than during the Great Depression.

The Root Causes: Unemployment and Foreclosure

Why do more people kill themselves during severe downturns?  It’s not just a downturn in the business cycle in some general sense.  It’s more specific than that.

Unemployment and foreclosure are the largest triggers in increased suicide risk.

David Stuckler and Sanjay Basu write:

People looking for work are about twice as likely to end their lives as those who have jobs.




Unemployment is a leading cause of depression, anxiety, alcoholism and suicidal thinking.

ABC News points out:

“Joblessness is a risk factor for suicide,” said Nadine Kaslow, professor of psychology in the Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences at Emory University in Atlanta. “The stress is just overwhelming. … People are freaked out.”

Bloomberg reports:

“The suicide rate started accelerating in 2008, 2009 and 2010 — someone might still be working, but their house is underwater, or they’re working but they’re working part-time,” Eric Caine, the director of the CDC’s Injury Control Research Center for Suicide Prevention, said by telephone. “These things ripple into families. There’s an economic stress.”

NY Daily News writes:

“Most people who commit suicide tend to suffer from major depression, and this vulnerability tends to be brought forth by very stressful situations like losing one’s home or job,” [Dr. Dan Iosifescu, director of mood and anxiety disorders program at Mount Sinai Hospita] said.

NBC News reports:

The American Association for Suicidology says economic recessions don’t normally affect suicide rates.


“Although US suicide rates did increase slightly during the years of the Great Depression, reaching a peak rate of 17.4/100,000 in 1933, subsequent US recessions have not been found to lead to increased national rates of suicide in the period of or immediately following each recession,” the group says.


The latest numbers suggest suicide rates for middle-aged Americans now surpass the peak during the Depression. And there’s another possible explanation.


“There is a clear and direct relationship between rates of unemployment and suicide,” the suicidology group says in its statement.


“The peak rate of suicide in 1933 occurred one year after the total US unemployment rate reached 25 percent of the labor force. Similar findings have been documented internationally. At the individual level, unemployed individuals have between two and four times the suicide rate of those employed.”


The group also raises concern about the home foreclosure rate.

Indeed, it is likely that more people have lost their jobs during this “Great Recession” than during the Great Depression … especially when you look at the masses of people who have given up altogether and dropped out of the work force.

And it is possible that more people have lost their homes through foreclosure than during the Great Depression as well.

No wonder there are so many suicides …

Postscript:  If you suffer from depression, this may help.

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Sat, 05/18/2013 - 04:46 | 3575402 CutOut
CutOut's picture

**** WARNING ****

ZH is being targeted by FedGov spam bots saturating the comment sections with garbage and disinformation in addition to down voting certain posters.

They are not harmless trolls, they are professional operatives attempting to undermine and discredit ZH.

Sat, 05/18/2013 - 08:52 | 3575542 CutOut
CutOut's picture

The down votes only confirms what I've been saying.

ZH is being targeted by FedGov spam bots saturating the comment sections with garbage and disinformation in addition to down voting certain posters.

They are not harmless trolls, they are professional operatives attempting to undermine and discredit ZH.

Sat, 05/18/2013 - 08:46 | 3575538 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture

You. Don't. Say.

Sat, 05/18/2013 - 03:07 | 3575357 dunce
dunce's picture

I believe that our cultural dissolution is a factor in the increased suicide rate. Many middle aged men and women are divorced, the children are gone, they are in financial distress and have no one that cares around them. In this economy they have little hope of even getting a decent job, hope dies first. What keeps my going is hate, i live to fight obama and all his democrat partners in crime. I will oppose them to my last breath and dollar and curse them from my grave.

Sat, 05/18/2013 - 06:18 | 3575443 slotmouth
slotmouth's picture

hate leads to the darkside.

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 22:33 | 3575059 monad
monad's picture

Suicide is the most unnatural act. Soviet SPX psyops have been used on US civilians since at least '56. Mayhem ensued. Brief:

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 21:33 | 3574897 StarTedStackin'
StarTedStackin''s picture

That's the Hoax and Chains the Obowel Movement PROMISED!




Remember how nobody in the media asked Obama to explain further than HOAX and CHAINS!





Bush on the other hand was responsible for everything that " happened on his watch"



remember those days?



Yep, both parties are the same, and the media treats both parties the same.......uh,huh.....




Flush the Obowel Movement NOW!

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 21:11 | 3574823 _It Is Balloon_
_It Is Balloon_'s picture



Fri, 05/17/2013 - 20:51 | 3574822 _It Is Balloon_
_It Is Balloon_'s picture

A farmer's children were squabbling.  

The farmer picked up a bundle of sticks and asked his children to break the sticks: the children could not.

Then the farmer handed the sticks one-by-one to the children: each stick was broken.


Fri, 05/17/2013 - 23:08 | 3575125 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Fascist! ;)

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 20:28 | 3574775 dalkrin
dalkrin's picture

Life doesn't last.  We are mortals, destined to become dust.  Yet I for one am committed to persevering in whatever circumstances I happen to be.

In this era of ours, it is no longer a common struggle of physical means so much as a battle of psychology.

Our minds are ships sailing these perilous seas of mass media, propaganda, and excess information.

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 23:08 | 3575127 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Nice dingy!

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 21:50 | 3574939 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

brilliant, thanks for the reminder.

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 21:38 | 3574906 StarTedStackin'
StarTedStackin''s picture

I will become dust, but I swear, by God, if things do not change I will adopt anarchy.




The Obowel Movement has left Patriots with little choice.

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 20:27 | 3574730 Yes_Questions
Yes_Questions's picture



the government still does not keep an official statistic on the number of homes in foreclosure or repossessed by banks and lenders..


Prolly because those who run the US government don't actually know what with the miracle of MERS.


On the suicide rate: those same Owners that run the US Government probably favor this over the messy job of killing those useless eaters on their dime.  Hey, they were good enough slaves to house and feed themselves when money circulation was more broad and now they free themselves when they're usefulness has ended.


Its a win win for the disgusting inhumane beings running this show!  


Enjoy the spoils for now, owners.


Fri, 05/17/2013 - 20:06 | 3574708 steveo77
steveo77's picture

1966 Mustang Exhaust Note 
This beast sat in the garage for 9 years, a fine aging process.  
I needed to make it run to ship it, and instead of just making it run, did a restoration on it. It really don't get any better than this.  
With separate dual exhausts, header, and Super Turbo mufflers, she really sounds good. This little video from a small camera does not do any justice to the exhaust note, but you get the idea. At two points you can just quickly hear the secondaries kicking in.  
I used to drag race this car late in the last millennium. 
Here is the U-Tube video, it will increase your testosterone levels simply by watching it, LOL html

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 19:59 | 3574698 OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

If I ever have to descend back into government welfare, unemployment and other subsistance that forces me to leech off of my fellow americans, while building a mentality that ensures I support the taxation theivery and legislative theft of others property....I'd blow my brains out without hesitation.


To those that realized the depths of their slavery and won...let us drink to them.

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 20:51 | 3574820 August
August's picture

Hail the Victorious Dead!

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 19:08 | 3574573 _It Is Balloon_
_It Is Balloon_'s picture

An overarching sense of futility and chaos.

It seems sometimes that there is no way to chart a workable plan.


I saved year after year so that I'd be able to support myself, yet my savings could all just disappear over memorial day weekend.  Is standing in a circle with ARs to guard a lump of yellow metal the answer?

I could just blow it all on hookers, but then what happens later?  

Those with kids hope their children do well, but how?  I was at a 4th of July celebration where it was announced that white people had fallen below 50% and the crowd loudly cheered.    

What happens to people not-of-color when the future arrives faster and faster. I'm not down on other types of folks. Yet they seem down on people like me.  It's not even a this verses that that, it's that it's just a colossal cornucopia of chaos.

Speaking out seems to be just a quicker trip to a resettlement camp. I could run to some other place, a hideout in the mountains, or South America, or God only knows where.  But does that work? Or is it only buying a bit of time.   Will the Red States become an Indian reservation surrounded by coasts of blue, and gradually, at first, the reservation shrinks?


Someone said that "the the only game worth playing is self-actualization;" that "insanity results from not having a game worth playing."  I believe people need a mission, a purpose, a cause greater than themselves.     

A worthwhile goal perhaps, is to seek out those souls who are on a a downward slope, reach out and explain, and bring them into the fold.










Fri, 05/17/2013 - 19:51 | 3574676 failsafe
failsafe's picture

I hear you balloon. I apologize to you for being so flippant. I feel pretty helpless much of the time and you are right. The best thing to do is find purpose, have in mind a kind of person you want to be,and try to be that person. And trying to help other people is a good sort of person to try to be.

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 19:07 | 3574568 The Heart
The Heart's picture

Can you spell, Population Reduction?

Now, for fun and entertainment, consider and add up all the different ways and methods that the babylonians are killing off the worlds populations.


Fri, 05/17/2013 - 20:12 | 3574731 Papasmurf
Papasmurf's picture

That appears to be the intent.  All other explanations fail when you consider the higher education involved in the fraud.

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 19:05 | 3574567 world_debt_slave
world_debt_slave's picture

the winnowing continues every 40-60 years by the banks to rinse and repeat

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 18:24 | 3574471 Racer
Racer's picture

It never has been a Great Recession, it IS


Fri, 05/17/2013 - 17:48 | 3574379 CustomersMan
CustomersMan's picture

Are All The Markets Rigged?

It's worth noting that illegal "price-fixing" is most likely to occur in markets where there is limited price discovery. So, whenever you see prices "set" by a group like Platts in the Oil and Gas markets, or the London Gold Fix, and there are $Trillions of dollars at to be made (stolen) intense suspicion is warranted.

In Britain the Oil and Gas price-fixing investigation targeted  BP, Shell and the Norweigan company Statoil.

Excerpt's from Matt Taibbi at Information Clearing House article "Everything Is Rigged"

"The inquiry also involves Platts, the world's largest oil price reporting agency. The concept here is very similar to both the LIBOR scandal, which involved banks manipulating the benchmark rates for interest rates, and to the possible rigging of interest rate swap prices through the manipulation of ISDA fix, the benchmark rate for those instruments, which is also the subject of a regulatory probe.



The story is obviously hugely significant in its own right, just as the LIBOR story was. But both are even more unpleasant in conjunction with each other, and the other price-fixing scandals that have cropped up in the financial markets in the last year or two. We've had other price-fixing scandals involving gas in the U.K. and here in the U.S., just a few weeks ago, it came out that the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC) concluded that JPMorgan Chase used "manipulative schemes" to tinker with energy prices in Michigan and California.


Many of you remember that California was subjected to MASSIVE Electricity RATE, PRICE FIXING back in the early 2,000's that set the state on the road to bankruptcy and involved Texas and ENRON. Of course all the pertinent records were destroyed when WTC Bldg. 7 self-destructed on 9/11/01. At one point California was suing for over $10 Billion.


Fri, 05/17/2013 - 18:05 | 3574422 BellyBrain
BellyBrain's picture
For everyone contemplating suicide:

Please don't just kill yourself.  Please pick the most evil, criminal psychopath in a $5,000 suit that you know of and kill that individual.  You will end up dead as a redult, but your final act will be ridding the planet of one more child-raping, soulless psychopath.  Those who you leave behind will see you as a hero.

As for "how"'ll have to get creative...

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 17:33 | 3574350 failsafe
failsafe's picture

Well,well, CRAAPP. GW,at least make a bigger deal out of the fact that having sex more often reduces depression. You put that part in the fine print's fine print. Maybe put a big red arrow down there or something.

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 16:44 | 3574228 F. Bastiat
F. Bastiat's picture

Socialism is a death force. It's organized evil.  Igor Shafarevich wrote about the "Socialist Phenomenon" in his essay "Socialism in Our Past and Future" and his related book, "The Sociliast Phenomenon". 

Links here:


Fri, 05/17/2013 - 19:02 | 3574561 Savyindallas
Savyindallas's picture

No pure "ism" is acceptable  -why do people get hung up on such labels? A free society should be flexible -it need to keep people from starving and harrming society, while giving them the flexibility to regulate those entities that prey on everyone else. A little bit of socialism should be within the free power of the elected representatives of the citizens to choose-when it gets out of hand, the socielty should be able to make adjustments. Glass Steagal is an example -pure Libertarianism does not work - you can't allow elites the power to bribe and  extort politicians to enslave the rest of us. On the other hand, you can't allow coalitions of special interest groups to vote to steal from the rest of us. We "were" a Contitutional Republic  -there were checks and balances to protect property rights and Liberty. No more. The mob rules-and the MOB is controlled by the elites who want to enslave us all and return to feudalsim- We have most likely lost the battle  -the elites have corrupted our values, Balkanized the nation through immgration and a divide and conquer strategy. They are in control. If we ever regain control, we have to quit arguing about "isms". The elites play their game and do just as well with their Machievellian politics under Communisim, socialism, or the crony Capitallist Fascism we now have in AmeriKa. We need honest representatives, regardles sof their political ideology. With the corrupted,  dumbed down citizenry we now have, I'm not sure that is possible.  

Sat, 05/18/2013 - 08:00 | 3575494 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture


Nothing works forever. People as a whole are weak and susceptible to greed, or the something for nothing mental disease. Socialism is a mental disorder that is derived from this very thing…something for nothing, or actually something from someone else. The real problem with collectivism is not just this lust for other people’s labor and property but the herd nature of it. Individually we can all act in self destructive ways, as we always have, and society as a whole continues on. Maybe not to the degree that some would hope for, but onward. In a herd like collectivist society, when we ALL head off in a particular direction, if that be toward a cliff, we all go over. In a government directed and enforced socialist, communist or collectivist society, we are not only acting as a herd, but stampeded with the force of law used as a threat and lure.

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 16:30 | 3574176 WTFUD
WTFUD's picture

3 years with the same mobile company paying a healthy (embarrasingly) monthly bill and One missed payment; Cut Off in seconds. That's good fucking BUSINESS YEAH! Gonna call these MF's tomorrow But gonna get some Slave Labour Indian Cunt who's paid less Annualy than my monthly bill.

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 16:18 | 3574117 bill1102inf
bill1102inf's picture

Foreclosures? Oh, you mean that thing that happens after you get to live 'rent free' for what? 12-24-36 months!?!?!? Oh, wait. Thats when the mod comes through and you get to do it all over again (living rent free that is). OH wait again. Then you get to file BK and get to postpone paying rent another 6-12 months?!?!?  Oh, the horror!

Sat, 05/18/2013 - 00:05 | 3575240 bunnyswanson
bunnyswanson's picture

Hey dick, have you heard of toxic mortgages?  The reason they are toxic is due to the documentation being fraudulent.  The Great Credit Extension was in place to present to the world a "good economy" but was really an intentionally-created bubble.

Now the bubble has burst, the hope was to erase the documents via foreclose process or refinance/modification.  The people who were given these toxic loans were mostly employed.  Some pulled equity out of their now +100,000 value homes to start a business, pay off credit cards, put their kids in college mutherfucker.

Chase bank sends a UPS truck to my house very fucking month so I will refinance due to the toxic loan I have (which was on a home I had lived in for a decade, having put down 20% value on my loan).


Fri, 05/17/2013 - 16:05 | 3574046 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

Left unstated, of course, is that nowadays, if someones iPhone goes out they start having dangerous thoughts of suicide.

I think a certain number of people today have much lower pain thresholds than in the 30's.

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 15:50 | 3573985 Never One Roach
Never One Roach's picture

Suicides very deflationary for doctors and hospitals..only one charge--the first and last all at once.

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 15:52 | 3573997 oddjob
oddjob's picture

Next guy gets unneccessary surgery

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 15:53 | 3574003 Never One Roach
Never One Roach's picture

oddjob...good one and also double charged!

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 15:45 | 3573959 sgorem
sgorem's picture

didn't read the whole article, but, in my humble opinion, if these poor people are going to commit suicide from the fraud and grief placed upon them by evil banksters and the government through various schemes, then they should at least keep open the option of taking a few of these fucks with them!!!

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 15:38 | 3573932 Gromit
Gromit's picture

Plenty of evictions also.

Why such pity for homeowners, nobody seems to care about tenants who lose their homes.

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 15:28 | 3573883 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

The government destroys families, sexual identitiy, traditional roles, the middle class, jobs, education, and liberty and then wonders why the people are suiciding themselves.  Oh, wait.  The government doesn't wonder.


Fri, 05/17/2013 - 15:05 | 3573741 Winston Smith 2009
Winston Smith 2009's picture

In addition to foreclosures and the economy, I think the US suicide rate can also be attributed to the vast over-prescribing (thanks to Big Pharma) of the brain chemistry altering Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor (SSRI) antidepressants and inadequate monitoring of those who take them, a type of drug which is, BTW, also the drug of notoriety involved with virtually every mass shooter in recent history:

You see, besides the suicide risk which Big Pharma hid and, after discovery, should have resulted in those involved going to prison for a very, very long time (but, of course, didn't), SSRIs also cause the acting out of violent fantasies in a tiny minority of people.  However, when you have millions of people taking SSRIs or coming off of them without medical supervision which can be even more dangerous, you're going to have enough of a user base to result in the sort of mass shootings we've been seeing with too few seeing the probable connection between an increasing frequency of mass shootings and the rapid rise of SSRI prescriptions.

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 18:45 | 3574523 Aaron Burr
Aaron Burr's picture

Give it a name, Winston. Best two paragraphs I have read in comments for a long time.

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 14:50 | 3573721 Lordflin
Lordflin's picture

While I do not disagree that poor economic times have exacerbated suicides, there is more to the picture than that... especially when it comes to the military.

Modern secular society gives people no reason to live... folks are told there is no purpose... make your own purpose... what feels right is right... do it your way... the only sin is getting caught... liars get the best mates (this is one of my favorites, drawn from a popular psycoloagy rag)... behavior results from nature and/or nurture (somehow free will and choice got lost in that mix)... there is no God... you are god... god is within... god is in all... these last refer to a lack of sovereign authority... I could go on...

As to the military... men are built for war, it is in their blood. War in and of itself does not destroy men... real men, that is... not the girly boys or neutered gender so prevalent now. On the other hand, men, most men, are fundamentally moral creatures. They do not kill without a reason. Somehow, fighting and dying for the banker class is just not satisfying...

If you want a good look at the horror of modern society you have no further to look than the abortion mills. What society, unwilling to protect its most innocent members, can long survive?

Man cannot long endure a morally ambivalent culture... That is being kind really... morally decadent is more to the point. I find it ironic, and sadly funny in a way, that those who insist human life is the result of material processes go on to conclude that they can invent their own rules.

Man has a fundamental nature. This must be true, rather you believe in an Almighty God or not (and I most certainly do). To violate the basic rules of that nature is to self destruct.


Fri, 05/17/2013 - 19:21 | 3574604 Accounting101
Accounting101's picture

It is a massive mistake to link morality and religion. The end result is and always will be tragic.

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 23:36 | 3575175 buyingsterling
buyingsterling's picture

There are basically three sources of moral code:

Religion, government, and the individual. Even if you belong to a subculture which has its own moral code, that is form of government, albeit one to which you may subscribe voluntarily.

- the individual is a lousy foundation for morality. Try convicing the thief and rapist that he's better off not stealing or raping. He may worry about punishment, but that is directly related to the competence of government to punish, or the ability of others to interdict. If he's intelligent or strong or runs in a pack, he will get ahead by running over others.

- goverment is perhaps even worse. Look where that's gotten us. The government will always set itself up as God and will seek to corral everyone. And moral codes (rights) determined by government change at the whim of elites.    The above two are the primary moral foundations today, and look where we are - we're all enslaved and evil rules the planet.

 - religion is best. Even if you personally choose to believe that you are a result of purely physical actions, that the universe came from nothing, and that if there is a creative intellect behind it that said intellect could never care about something as fundamentally flawed as humans, it is still in the best interests of you and your family to be surrounded by people who believe that moral codes are in fact fixed and determined by a power that transcends the human being. Take a short trip through history and see where divergence from Christian principles has led to the massive enslavement we see today: Civil war fought over unfair (do unto others) trade practices and slavery (do unto others) led to the first massive expansion of federal power. The federal reserve and income tax were born of legislated envy and greed. The depression was the result of theft and carelessness and debt. etc. etc. And all along that timeline other societies were experimenting with the idea that God is dead, and man is god, and the corpses piled up to the sky.

Sat, 05/18/2013 - 06:30 | 3575448 Accounting101
Accounting101's picture

Bullshit! Your trip through history needs to be a little longer, say five millennia. That's when you will start seeing the corpses piling to the sky. You have also proved my original point succinctly with the " divergence from Christian principles" line. It's all tribal bullshit.

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 15:51 | 3573994 stiler
stiler's picture

Hey, I don't really own my own house anyway. If you have too keep paying for something you supposedly own already, then it belongs to them, like your house, car, etc, etc. And now they force us to buy something-- healthcare.

My answer is:

For you are not your own, but have been bought with a price (Jesus' blood).

and this:

For you are dead and your life is hid with Christ in God.

I'm already dead (to sin), so wouldn't have to kill myself in any case. The world is alive to sin, while they go around like walking dead.

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 15:23 | 3573859 HarryHaller
HarryHaller's picture

@Lordflin, girly boys?  There's an old saying from WWI I think that goes something like 'War is months of boredom punctuated by moments of sheer terror'.  Given modern communications, mobility, and weaponry of the West I'd say they've cut down on the amount of boredom quite a bit these days, no?


Fri, 05/17/2013 - 14:58 | 3573752 A. Magnus
A. Magnus's picture

If you need somebody else to give your life purpose then you either cannot critically think or you have a drastic lack of intellectual creativity. You can only blame 'society' so much for the shortcomings you whine about.

The lack of purpose is a fundamental result of planned obsolescence and the disposable, bullshit culture promoted by salesmen, CEOs and politicians. Don't bother pretending morality has ANYTHING to do with it when 'morals' are malleable thanks to banker financing.

There is no such thing as a Christian soldier OR a Christian banker. To bitch about the lack of either is to miss the point entirely...

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 15:45 | 3573962 harami
harami's picture

If you need somebody else to give your life purpose then you either cannot critically think or you have a drastic lack of intellectual creativity.

Have you bothered getting off the internet and Zerohedge lately?  A good ~95% of people fall under your intellectually superior assertion, hence the shit storm we currently find ourselves in (rinse and repeat throughout history).

Everything is not relative, morals are no more malleable than the laws of nature despite what Hollywood, the internet, and public schools have tried to shove down our throats.

If morals and ethics are decided on a whim than it's no different than "Might makes right".  Pretty shitty outlook.

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