Spying Update

George Washington's picture

Update 1:  Prominent Liberals AND Conservatives Sue Over NSA Spying

Update 2:  Spying Whistleblower’s Girlfriend Is Hot


Government Spying on Americans … and then Giving Info to Giant Corporations

You’ve heard that the government spies on all Americans.

But you might not know that the government shares some of that information with big corporations.

In addition, Reuters reported in 2011 that the NSA shares intelligence with Wall Street banks in the name of “battling hackers.”

The National Security Agency, a secretive arm of the U.S. military, has begun providing Wall Street banks with intelligence on foreign hackers, a sign of growing U.S. fears of financial sabotage.The assistance from the agency that conducts electronic spying overseas is part of an effort by American banks and other financial firms to get help from the U.S. military and private defense contractors to fend off cyber attacks, according to interviews with U.S. officials, security experts and defense industry executives.


The Federal Bureau of Investigation has also warned banks of particular threats amid concerns that hackers could potentially exploit security vulnerabilities to wreak havoc across global markets and cause economic mayhem.




NSA Director Keith Alexander, who runs the U.S. military’s cyber operations, told Reuters the agency is currently talking to financial firms about sharing electronic information on malicious software, possibly by expanding a pilot program through which it offers similar data to the defense industry.




NSA, which has long been charged with protecting classified government networks from attack, is already working with Nasdaq to beef up its defenses after hackers infiltrated its computer systems last year and installed malicious software that allowed them to spy on the directors of publicly held companies.




The NSA’s work with Wall Street marks a milestone in the agency’s efforts to make its cyber intelligence available more broadly to the private sector.




Greater cooperation with industry became possible after a deal reached a year ago between the Pentagon and the Department of Homeland Security, allowing NSA to provide cyber expertise to other government agencies and certain private companies.

In March, PC Magazine noted:

“Right now, the ability to share real-time information is complicated and there are legal barriers. We have to overcome that,” Gen Keith B. Alexander, director of the National Security Agency and commander of U.S. Cyber Command, said during a Thursday appearance at Georgia Tech’s Cyber Security Symposium.


[Alexander has been pushing for the  anti-privacy Internet bill known as "CISPA" to be passed.] “It allows the government to start working with industry and … discuss with each of these sector about the best approach,” he said.

CISPA would allow the NSA to more openly share data with corporations in the name of protecting against “cyber threats.” But that phrase is too squisy.  As the Electronic Frontier Foundation notes:

A “cybersecurity purpose” only means that a company has to think that a user is trying to harm its network. What does that mean, exactly? The definition is broad and vague. The definition allows purposes such as guarding against “improper” information modification, ensuring “timely” access to information or “preserving authorized restrictions on access…protecting…proprietary information” (i.e. DRM).

Moreover,  as the ACLU notes, “Fusion Centers” – a hybrid of military, intelligence agency, police and private corporations set up in centers throughout the country, and run by the Department of Justice and Department of Homeland Security – allow big businesses like Boeing to get access to classified information which gives them an unfair advantage over smaller competitors:

Participation in fusion centers might give Boeing access to the trade secrets or security vulnerabilities of competing companies, or might give it an advantage in competing for government contracts. Expecting a Boeing analyst to distinguish between information that represents a security risk to Boeing and information that represents a business risk may be too much to ask.

A 2008 Department of Homeland Security Privacy Office review of fusion centers concluded that they presented risks to privacy because of ambiguous lines of authority, rules and oversight, the participation of the military and private sector, data mining, excessive secrecy, inaccurate or incomplete information and the dangers of mission creep.

The Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations found in 2012 that fusion centers spy on citizens, produce ‘shoddy’ work unrelated to terrorism or real threats:

“The Subcommittee investigation found that DHS-assigned detailees to the fusion centers forwarded ‘intelligence’ of uneven quality – oftentimes shoddy, rarely timely, sometimes endangering citizens’ civil liberties and Privacy Act protections, occasionally taken from already-published public sources, and more often than not unrelated to terrorism.”

Under the FBI’s Infraguard program, businesses sometimes receive intel even before elected officials.

Law enforcement agencies spy on protesters and then share the info – at taxpayer expense – with the giant Wall Street banks

And a security expert says that all Occupy Wall Street protesters had their cellphone information logged by the government.

Alternet notes:

Ironically, records indicate that corporate entities engaged in such public-private intelligence sharing partnerships were often the very same corporate entities criticized, and protested against, by the Occupy Wall Street movement as having undue influence in the functions of public government.

In essence, big banks and giant corporations are seen as being part of “critical infrastructure” and “key resources” … so the government protects them.  That creates a dynamic where the government will do quite a bit to protect the big boys against any real or imagined threats … whether from activists or even smaller competitors. (Remember that the government has completely propped up the big banks, even though they went bankrupt due to stupid gambles.)

And given that some 70% of the national intelligence budget is spent on private sector contractors. that millions of private contractors have clearance to view information gathered by spy agencies – including kids like 29 year old spying whistleblower Edward Snowden, who explained that he had the power to spy on anyone in the country – and that information gained by the NSA by spying on Americans is being shared with agencies in other countries, at least some of the confidential information is undoubtedly leaking into private hands for profit, without the government’s knowledge or consent.

As the ACLU noted in 2004:

There is a long and unfortunate history of cooperation between government security agencies and powerful corporations to deprive individuals of their privacy and other civil liberties, and any program that institutionalizes close, secretive ties between such organizations raises serious questions about the scope of its activities, now and in the future.

Indeed, the government has been affirmatively helping the big banks, giant oil companies and other large corporations cover up fraud and to go after critics.  For example, Business Week reported on May 23, 2006:

President George W. Bush has bestowed on his intelligence czar, John Negroponte, broad authority, in the name of national security, to excuse publicly traded companies from their usual accounting and securities-disclosure obligations.

Reuters noted in 2010:

U.S. securities regulators originally treated the New York Federal Reserve’s bid to keep secret many of the details of the American International Group bailout like a request to protect matters of national security, according to emails obtained by Reuters.

Wired reported the same year:

The DHS issued a directive to employees in July 2009 requiring a wide range of public records requests to pass through political appointees for vetting. These included any requests dealing with a “controversial or sensitive subject” or pertaining to meetings involving prominent business leaders and elected officials. Requests from lawmakers, journalists, and activist and watchdog groups were also placed under this scrutiny.

In an effort to protect Bank of America from the threatened Wikileaks expose of wrongdoing – the Department of Justice told Bank of America to a hire a specific hardball-playing law firm to assemble a team to take down WikiLeaks (and see this)

The government and big banks actually coordinated on the violent crackdown of the anti-big bank Occupy protest.

The government is also using anti-terrorism laws to keep people from learning what pollutants are in their own community, in order to protect the fracking, coal and other polluting industries. See this, this, this, this and this.

Investigating factory farming can get one labeled a terrorist.

Infringing the copyright of a big corporation may also get labeled as a terrorist … and a swat team may be deployed to your house.  See this, this, this and this.  As the executive director of the Information Society Project at Yale Law School notes:

This administration … publishes a newsletter about its efforts with language that compares copyright infringement to terrorism.

In short,


NSA Official: “The Government Is Not Trying To Protect [Secrets About NSA Surveillance] from the Terrorists. It’s Trying to Protect Knowledge of that Program from the Citizens of the United States”

The former head of the National Security Agency’s global digital data gathering program – William Binney – confirms what Glenn Greenwald and other civil libertarians say: the disclosure of widespread spying on Americans doesn’t help terrorists or otherwise hurt national security, but is simply an embarrassment to people in government who have been caught breaking the law:

The terrorists have already known that we’ve been doing this for years, so there’s no surprise there. They’re not going to change the way they operate just because it comes out in the U.S. press. I mean, the point is, they already knew it, and they were operating the way they would operate anyway. So, the point is that they’re—we’re not—the government here is not trying to protect it from the terrorists; it’s trying to protect it, that knowledge of that program, from the citizens of the United States.


Remember, Obama has prosecuted more whistleblowers than all other presidents combined … even though many of those whistleblowers have helped national security by revealing wrongdoing by our government.


Top Spying Experts Explain Why You Should Oppose Spying … Even Though You’ve Done Nothing Wrong

Surveillance Can be Used to Frame You If Someone In Government Happens to Take a Dislike to You … Last Chance to Stop “Turnkey Tyranny”

Top NSA whistleblower William Binney – the former head of the National Security Agency’s global digital data gathering program – has repeatedly explained that just because you “haven’t done anything wrong” doesn’t mean you can’t be severely harmed by spying:

The problem is, if they think they’re not doing anything that’s wrong, they don’t get to define that. The central government does.

Binney explains that the government is storing everything, and creating a searchable database … to be used whenever it wants, for any purpose it wants (even just going after someone it doesn’t like).

And he notes that the government will go after anyone who is on its enemies list:

If you ever get on their enemies list, like Petraeus did, then you can be drawn into that surveillance.

Binney recently held his thumb and forefinger close together, and said:

We are, like, that far from a turnkey totalitarian state

Similarly, in response to the question, “why should people care about surveillance?”, the whistleblower source of the Guardian’s disclosures on phone and Internet spying – Edward Snowden – said:

Because even if you’re not doing anything wrong you’re being watched and recorded. And the storage capability of these systems increases every year consistently by orders of magnitude … to where it’s getting to the point where you don’t have to have done anything wrong. You simply have to eventually fall under suspicion from somebody – even by a wrong call. And then they can use this system to go back in time and scrutinize every decision you’ve ever made, every friend you’ve ever discussed something with. And attack you on that basis to sort to derive suspicion from an innocent life and paint anyone in the context of a wrongdoer.

[If people don't oppose the surveillance state now] it will be turnkey tyranny.

In 1975, Senator Frank Church said about the NSA:

I know the capacity that is there to make tyranny total in America, and we must see to it that this agency and all agencies that possess this technology operate within the law and under proper supervision, so that we never cross over that abyss. That is the abyss from which there is no return.

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WTFUD's picture

If we can view the absurdity of spying on us from this standpoint we can realise how very very wrong it is.
We here on Z/H and the general public at large would wholeheartedly, unconditionally, report to the applicable authorities any information we came across in order to thwart any filthy scum trying to harm or destabalise the country.
It is an insult therefore to infringe on our civil liberties.

Money 4 Nothing's picture

No Moar Secrets... That goes for everyone.

I analyzed what Obama meant in his press statement..


"We have to ballance 100% Security and 100% Freedom"

Well, after finding out the scope of this security breach was a wholesale level, and the content of breach involved all Americans private information right down to passwords, it's safe to say we have neither at this point. Just my observation.





the grateful unemployed's picture

Imagine there's no drone strikes

It isn't hard to do

Nothing to kill or die for

  And no religious fundamentalists, too

Imagine all the people Living life in peace

they used to call it the silent majority. (misused by Nixon once, let me explain) The phrase was used in the 19th century as a euphemism referring to all the people who have died.. or the Grateful Dead I am the Grateful Unemployed, and like the Grateful Dead, resent any efforts to revive me, reemploy me, and reeducate me, or put me through an historical farce, such as Orwells novel suggests. I want to live in John Lennons song lyrics, because that is our future, and we might as well embrace it, but all these datamining jackhammers are keeping me up at night. And of course once the dead (and the dead old ways) are revived, (as Nixon attempted to resuscitate the silent majority, only to have the zombies impeach him, and send him home in disgrace). Now Obama is making the same mistake, and he's going to drag it out of us, every phone call, every blog post, every online purchase of cooking devices of mass destruction. He is such an ignorant savage. The silent majority will not be provoked..(not by terrorists or their enemies)
Money 4 Nothing's picture

The Department of Homeland Security has gone public with an admission that an exercise was planned months before the Boston Marathon bombings that involved backpacks being used to detonate explosives by rogue terrorists.Explosions at the Boston Marathon (Photo: My Fox Boston)By Anthony GucciardiStory LeakJune 11, 2013According to the DHS documents acquired by theBoston Globe, the agents were planning on conducting training exercises centered around a fictitious terrorist group called ‘Free America Citizens’, a group that would plant backpacks full of explosives around Boston that the detectives would be forced to track down. Ultimately, of course, this ended up happening at the Boston Marathon itself with precise accuracy. The Globe report reads that “the city was hit with a real terrorist attack executed in a frighteningly similar fashionThe Department of Homeland Security has gone public with an admission that an exercise was planned months before the Boston Marathon bombings that involved backpacks being used to detonate explosives by rogue terrorists.

Explosions at the Boston Marathon (Photo: My Fox Boston)By Anthony GucciardiStory LeakJune 11, 2013According to the DHS documents acquired by theBoston Globe, the agents were planning on conducting training exercises centered around a fictitious terrorist group called ‘Free America Citizens’, a group that would plant backpacks full of explosives around Boston that the detectives would be forced to track down. Ultimately, of course, this ended up happening at the Boston Marathon itself with precise accuracy. The Globe report reads that “the city was hit with a real terrorist attack executed in a frighteningly similar fashion.”And the DHS isn’t denying that the training exercise manifested itself at the Boston Marathon, as detailed in the back-end article on the Boston Globe that I discovered while browsing the news.“The real thing happened before we were able to execute,” a Boston police official told the Boston Globe in the report.The exercise, labeled as “Operation Urban Shield,” was funded by a $200,000 Homeland Security grant. It was planned months before the Boston Marathon, and it was scheduled to ‘take place’ in official capacity this weekend, according to the sources. But the exercise admission lends further credence to the ignored eyewitness account of bomb sniffing dogs and bomb squads running a training exercise during the morning of the Boston Marathon. Was this training exercise part of Operation Urban Shield?Interestingly, they specifically detailed that this terrorist group (that presumably is based off of ‘right wing extremists’ and the sovereign citizens movement) would carry a logo of a metal skull wearing an Uncle Sam hat. I’m not claiming there’s a relationship, but I find it funny that even their logo matched up with real events from the Boston Marathon bombings. It was in fact the apparent security at the event that was spotted wearing clothing adorning the image of skulls that turned out to be the logo for the Craft International private security firm.I will be reporting more on Operation Urban Shield as more information 

.Obama scheduled for arrest June 29.? Looks plausable, but I doubt it.







seataka's picture

Mr. Edward Snowden, Army Pfc. Bradley Manning, and Mr Julian Assage all know that

Secrets are the mortar,
binding lies as bricks together,
into prisons for your mind.

thestarl's picture

Hey what about that Scooter Libby fuckwit,Cheney and W's mate?When he outed CIA operative Valerie Plume the prick should have been thrown in Gitmo ha.What a bloody case of double standards.How many lives did that pricks actions compromise.I wonder what it will take for the vasr bulk of Americans to snap out of their stupor?  

Che Guevara is Dead's picture

Outing Valerie Plame deserves Gitmo? Everyone knew she was a whore CIA agent, and nobody died. Besides have you been to the Caribbean? It's not exactly Siberia. Plus Gitmo has all the Korans and free TV you can flush/watch.

Unlike Benghazi, Fast & Furious and the Domestic Spying scandals. 

web bot's picture

Great writing GW.

Last night on CNN, New York congressman, Peter King, was interviewed about James Clapper lying under oath regarding the NSA data collection of millions of Americans (Clapper's answer was "not wittingly"). King said that Clapper was put in an unwinnable position and that this question was asked in closed door hearings and the lawmaker asking the question already knew the answer (that the NSA was doing this). The essence of King's response supported Clapper's approach to answering the question. Pardon my use of vulgarity, but this is FUCKING STUNNING and the press should be all over this to clarify what King meant.

I get the need to use technology and monitor information to legitimately protect America and its allies (despite what some of the wackjobs are saying on this site). This is a legitimate activity... but what I don't' agree with is unfettered access to the electronic footprint of average, law abiding people going about their daily lives and the lack of reasonable grounds to access this information, along with the gross violation of constitutionally protected rights. The moment you give the government, any government, the right to bend laws (yes - this includes the use of torture - water boarding, for example), over time, thinking shift where other acts outside of the law become justified. Many government officials are careerists, so they have a vested interest to support what is being asked... which has led precisely to where we are at today.

For those 50%ers (who watch American Idol, Family Guy, you know the type), who have no issue with the government collecting this information, if you don't fear the government of today, then you should fear the government of the future who will have unfettered access to this information. When they approach you about something you looked at a decade ago and you are in an environment where you need to "justify" your human curiosity, you'll regret the fascist state that you've helped to build.

America is one of the greatest nations on earth and this is the most signficiant threat to is future.

ITrustMyGut's picture

something along those lines happened to me last year.. I was "called upon" by a UST agent.. seems my plate had been photographed at a public library 20 years ago..where there was a speaker about the fed being private...


UST wanted to know if I was a militia member... this was in front of the RNC con con in Tampa..


of course it was to threaten me...

Hannibal's picture

Lets not forget that the "central power elite" are the criminals here, not Snowdon or Manning.

Bloodstock's picture

Is it true that WalMart is watching when you wipe your ass?

How else would they target you to sell you a certain brand of toilet paper?

ponzisaurus's picture

Would you exchange walks on the beach with this for being hunted down like a rabid dog?


Perhaps my morals and ethics need a little polishing but im just sayin...

Bringin It's picture

Freud said people are trapped in their sexual obsessions.

Jung parted ways when he concluded the sex obsession was the lowest among many levels of a multi-tiered consciousness.

The moral of the story?

Some are more evolved than others.  But you said that yourself sort of.

DaylightWastingTime's picture

the irony! the irony! in a very kurtz type way. welcome to the siphon they are not afraid to tell you about! the fact remains, is that your better will tell you exactly what they are doing when they know you can do nothing to stop it. hero? you have more to lose.

CustomersMan's picture

 from: jimstonefreelance.com 

A former NSA employee on Snowden

"People who get to see enough to reveal what Snowden did have million dollar background checks, involving interviews with practically everyone in their past, and the interviewers do not identify themselves, they just talk as friends over a beer or whatever. So no one knows when they are being asked questions about someone the NSA intends to hire. These background checks take a year or so to complete and contractors can't afford to do that, the FED does. What Snowden revealed proves through emperical evidence that he was not employed by a contractor, he was just straight up NSA. The entire High School drop out story is pure B.S., because if during one of these checks any of the secret questioners comes up with even a little whiff of something wrong with your past, YOU ARE OUT.


Unlike the CIA, which has over a million spooks, the NSA is so secretive that very few people break the barrier to entry, which limits the size of the NSA to below 50,000 people total, a majority of which are highly talented super geeks. The expense of the background investigations alone seriously limits the number of people the NSA can hire.

Don't expect anything that is now claimed to be said by Snowden as actually coming from him. They are whitewashing this as fast as possible, while making false posts and statements to the web and media that claim to be from him. By now he has been replaced with the public image of someone else. For starters, it is ERIC SNOWDEN, not EDWARD as we are now told and this subtle name change will be used to deflect meaningful search into his past."


....more at his site listed above

Bringin It's picture

- The entire High School drop out story is pure B.S., because if during one of these checks any of the secret questioners comes up with even a little whiff of something wrong with your past, YOU ARE OUT.

I can assure you this is total, ridiculus, bullshit.

Whatever the story with Snowden turns out to be in the end, the above claim in BOLD is not factual re the HS diploma.

Winston Smith 2009's picture

"I can assure you this is total, ridiculus, bullshit."


Whether or not a person has dropped out of HS is irrelevant in a background investigation unless it is determined that it was due to drug use or mental health issues.  While its mostly idiots and fools who drop out of HS, many brilliant individuals didn't do well in school because they were bored to tears by it.  Plus, I suspect that in his position with his apparently high level network admin privileges, he would have been subject to polygraph exams although I'm not sure about that issue with NSA contractors.

SmallerGovNow2's picture

BS, our govt is not that well funded and not that smart...

DaylightWastingTime's picture

and while we are reliying on britain, i'll take another slice of yellow cake to celibrate truman's ascenscion to power

tony bonn's picture

the only reason for governmnt spying is to subjugate, control and murder americans...must stupidfuck americans do not think that there are concentration camps operating in america....

the rockefeller nazis and their cabal of hyenas established and supported adolf hitler all through world war 2, murdered president kennedy, and blew up the world trade centers, with much help from the bush crime syndicate....

the last 12 years has simply been to finalize the nazi state. god bless snowden.....everyone else is a puss...

CustomersMan's picture


So, the NSA see's all here's all. It's an impressive organization. Only takes people from above the top 99th percentile to work there. Exclusive. Talanted. Latest technology. Nothing escapes it's gaze. With all that in Mind.

Here is the test question.

With all that seeing and hearing and links and money and knowing certainly we can rely on you, your team, that we're paying for and have paid for, to tell us exactly what happened in our fine City Of Boston on Marathon Day?

Certainly you have the facts on this and can clear it all up. We paid, where are the fucking results?

SmallerGovNow2's picture

spot on CM....  they have the masses, but not the IQ...

Bringin It's picture

Spot on CM yes

but care to explain they have the masses, but not the IQ...?

DaylightWastingTime's picture

how much could the m/i complex be pissed off at obama for botching benghazi which could have been a surreptitious weapons funneling nexus point for syrian rebles? that ones a stretch but still...and oh sarin gas, why isn't anybody harping on the fact that iraq could have moved his bio weapons to syria and now we are seeing in small doses(no pun intended) what we couldn't find when we invaded iraq?

Bringin It's picture

Chew on this.  Did the Sarin nerve gas come from Bengahzi?  Were one or more of the dead seals WMD experiened?  Is that why they were allowed to die?

Is that why everything but the kitchen sink is being thrown out to make this story - Bengahzi go away. 

Pretraeus was dumped over Bangahzi?  Pretraeus had is email read.  people asked how?

SmallerGovNow2's picture

look at a map sir.  look at the size of syria and iraq.  syria is much bigger and more developed than iraq ever was. 

DaylightWastingTime's picture

why does snowden come on the heels of russia outing cia station chief? why is turkey in a state of destabilization when they are the primary state conduit to europe for quatar energy?does this have any connection to why we couldn't get a polish missle shield? would germany have a motive for vacuuming jpm vaults to sell to the chinese in retaliation to japanese fiscal policies that zh has underscored are hurting germany the most? how much gold would china have to acquire in order to become worthy of reserve status as far as the yaun is concerned?

otto skorzeny's picture

China has to flex military muscle to get respect in the world- unfortunate - but man is a violent animal and has respect for violence.

Bringin It's picture

Chess[or Go] and Checkers Otto.  Our helm is derelict due to the CD induced via spreading democracy with depleted uranium.  Stand by for impact.

SmallerGovNow2's picture

great questions.  please give us some answers sir...

Bringin It's picture

Vlad has the ball and he's running with it.

He's breaking tackles like a mofo.

God bless him for it too.

As opposed to our sides - 'Let's start a sectarian blood bath across the ME to get more out of the liquid hydrocarbon racket.' among other rackets.

Maybe Tony Blair was wrong when he talked Dubya out of bombing Al-Jazeera in Qatar.

Bear's picture

Be careful what you say here ... Be very careful!!!

StarTedStackin''s picture

Douchebags still blaming Boosh 5 years into the Obowel Movement.......



phuck off.....you still never answered my last reasonable criticism.......

Metal Minded's picture

Why Shouldn't I Work for the NSA? (Good Will Hunting) released in 1997 {2:50} -


kchrisc's picture

Anyone that still believes that the US is run by ultra-socialists and/or commies needs to go look up fascism in a dictionary. This article just about defines it all by itself.

Shit, look at Obama's track record, things he's done, not said. He is just kissing babies and implementing the fascist agenda of those that put him in the White House. They are trying to keep the house of cards going, where they steal everything from us, while preparing for the day things coming tumbling down and the masses bring out the guns, ropes and guillotines.

What does anyone think NDAA 2012 was about?! Or Executive Order 13603, etc.. They are the legal prep for the coming round up. Not of some "terrorist' that the FBI setup in their latest scheme?! No!, it is about having the "legal" structure in place so as to give Billy Bob and Private Smith the ability to overcome their moral reticence in rounding up Americans--"Just following orders." and "it was all legal, they showed me a piece of paper!"

They are preparing and they are coming. Time to prepare ourselves.

The Four Rs

Rejection--No Pay, No Obey



Restoration of the Constitutional republic


SmallerGovNow2's picture

All R and D are BIG government.  Both are for shit.  Government needs to be cut by two thirds minimum.  Or it is game over....

rsnoble's picture

"operate" under the law? Bullshit.  They need fully dismantled and many of them need executed for treason.

ThisIsBob's picture

Inasmuch as he said he had access, I sure hope he made a big fat file of names and places for insurance against mishaps.

(Maybe even hid a way in from outside, whatever they call those things...)

roadhazard's picture

man, a guy can't even be a hero for a day anymore. Amazing how Everything is something else... every time. From the time I was told there was no Santa it's been all down hill. Fake tits was the last straw for me. 

besnook's picture

i think the tell on this guy is that he went to china instead of russia or a country without an extradition treaty with the usa.  this alone says he is legit. he is a possible critical asset to the chinese, at the same time, because he went to china, a greater threat to the usa. in view of that, no info can be trusted anymore in the public domain. the art of deception is much too sophisticated today. even whistlr blowers can be duped into being players for the people they are whistle blowing upon.

snowden is projecting that he believes in the system by leaking info to greenwald(foreign press but british, china daily or even rt might have been more appropriate to get more of the story instead of a whitewashed version or why not wikileaks or anonymous) and hoping for average citizen reaction. naivete as an extension of hope and faith die hard.

in any case, there seems to be a battle of ideology shaping up. the fortunate thing about the quest for world domination is there are competing sides. the extension of this competition is the need for the future subjects of this world domination to go along with one side or another. people have all the power. the people just don't know that they have this power. the question then becomes who is the object of persuasion to be persuaded of what by whom? the target(from metadata) is the obama admin specifically and the usa in general(by competing forces). who dislikes obama? interestingly, one correlation is oabama's reluctance to sign off on israel's carte blanche dictation of mid east policy.

williambanzai7's picture

Don't mean to rain on your thought, but he went to Hong Kong, which is not China, although there is a complicated relationship.

China does not have an extradition treaty with the US as HK does.

Greenwald maybe using the Guardian USA as his platform but he is a US citizen and is no more foreign press than an employee of any Murdoch paper such as the New York Post, WSJ and now the LA Times.

Greenwald's reputation does not derive from the Guardian. He is a notable author and activist on these matters.

So far, the Hong Kong media seems to be friendly to Snowden's presence and there is no official government position on his situation.

He is getting positive Internet spin locally and from micro bloggers on the Mainland, who are not being censored.

All the speculation about extradition, is speculation.

besnook's picture

my bad on the china thing. i persistently conflate china and hong kong as a matter of habit erroneoously but i got the extradition laws right.

greenwald answers to a brit editor who answers to a brit______.(please fill in the blnak with one of those great brit adjectives for political wankers). he is given wide discretion on his articles about usa policy but i am sure there are some unspoken restrictions.

the local take is valuable considering the relationship between the mainland and hk, and hk and the west. an opinion on those relationships would be enlightening from a mind like yours.


Bringin It's picture

Billy - find that guy and buy him a beer.  Thanks.

If you need help I'll fly in from MarcFaberville.  [Note to DHS - this is humor. relax.] [ Note to WB7 - Wink wink]

GeneralMunger's picture

"...one correlation is oabama's reluctance to sign off on israel's carte blanche dictation of mid east policy."

So you're saying that Obama is actually the target of some nefarious big brother type force or element?  Maybe Obama is an innocent bystander?

One thing for certain is Obama has seen to it that the "better devils we knew", Mubarak, Khadafi, Assad, etc. have been replaced by the muslim brotherhood - zealous nutcase islamists....great salt of the earth people.  And Obama has shipped them more weapons than he did to the Mexican drug cartels during Fast and Furious.

The Fat lady is about to sing.  Once the U.S. gov't clears this hurdle and all the lawsuits and wailing subside they'll really put the screws to us....even websites like ZH and Drudge to name a few.

besnook's picture

no, the purpose of the arab spring was to destabilize all the arab countries in a religious civil war between sunnis and shiites to create chaos as a means of control, the palestinian model. obama's hesitation to engage in many of israel's local desires, one of which is syria, says the local fifth column who represent the neocon version of world domination is very upset that competing forces have gained an edge. the representative of that vision, obama, must be thwarted at all costs if the neocons are to regain their advantage. the tell on that is that any informed citizen has known for years that all communications have been hacked. that has been an inside joke at zh since it's inception. this is the first time the msm has actually created outrage(purposely) over the issue. who owns the msm? neocons, all of them. if the same outrage had been encouraged over the iraq war the war would never have happened. 

your accusation of some big brother plot is kind of cute


GeneralMunger's picture

Sounds like if we sat down over a beer we'd agree on alot of stuff.  I don't think Israel cares if we engage in Syria or not and I don't think even Obama is stupid enough to put U.S. troops or jets in an active role anywhere near Syria.  I think you're idea that neocons are running the world is kinda interesting.  I'm not sure exactly how to label the globalist/corporatist cabal that's F'n up this world and seeking to gain control of what's left....I don't think they give a damn what label you and I give them.