Head of Congressional Intelligence Committee: “You Can’t Have Your Privacy Violated If You Don’t KNOW Your Privacy Is Violated”

George Washington's picture

The chair of the House Intelligence Committee – Mike Rogers – said yesterday in an NSA spying hearing which he led that there is no right to privacy in America.

Constitutional expert Stephen I. Vladeck – Professor of Law and the Associate Dean for Scholarship at American University Washington College of Law – disagreed.

Here’s the exchange:

Rogers: I would argue the fact that we haven’t had any complaints come forward with any specificity arguing that their privacy has been violated, clearly indicates, in ten years, clearly indicates that something must be doing right. Somebody must be doing something exactly right.


Vladeck: But who would be complaining?


Rogers: Somebody who’s privacy was violated. You can’t have your privacy violated if you don’t know your privacy is violated.


Vladeck: I disagree with that. If a tree falls in the forest, it makes a noise whether you’re there to see it or not.


Rogers: Well that’s a new interesting standard in the law. We’re going to have this conversation… but we’re going to have wine, because that’s going to get a lot more interesting…

What Rogers is really saying is that the government has the right to spy on everyone so long as it doesn’t get caught doing so.


How’s that different from arguing that it’s okay for a thief to takes $100 from your bank account as long as you don’t notice that the money is missing? Or that it’s okay to rape a woman while she’s passed out so long as she doesn’t realize what happened?

That’s beyond ridiculous.

It flies in the face of more than 200 years of American law. In fact, experts say that the NSA spying program is wildly illegal, and is exactly the kind of thing which King George imposed on the American colonists … which led to the Revolutionary War.



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WalterWhite's picture

Rogers has got to go. Will someone primary that douche

bluskyes's picture

...not until you see the whites of Obama's eyes.

Hilroy's picture

This is the kind of reasoning that used to come from the back of the classroom in highschool. "If someone in the crowd is guilty - just throw all of them in jail"  lol

NeoLuddite's picture

If a neighbor enters your home unbeknownst to you, takes a gold bracelet  from your jewelry box, and leaves and you never discover that it is missing did a burglary occur? Of course it did. Is the neighbor who took it not guilty simply because you didn’t miss the item? Of course not. Your home was burgled and your neighbor is guilty of theft.

The fact that a victim has no knowledge or memory of having been wronged does not mean that a wrong has not been committed, nor does it let the wrongdoer off the hook.

Surreptitious theft meets the common law definition of battery – an intentional, unpermitted act causing harmful or offensive contact with the person of another. What makes the act in question "unpermitted" is that the victim did not consent. Lack of consent does not require the victim’s active objection, rather it may come from legal incapacity. (i.e., an unknowing individual is by law incapable of consenting). Whether or not the victim later discovers the battery is relevant to the classification of the act as a gross violation of that person’s natural rights.

Nor is the motive of the perpetrator irrelevant. The fact that governments pass draconion legislation "for the common good" is no more a defense than the claim of a man who has nonconsensual  sex with an incapacitated woman because to his mind she “needed it” or “asked for it.”

As Friedrich Nietzsche once wrote:

"All things are subject to interpretation - whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth. Madness is rare in individuals - but in groups, parties and nations  it tends to be the rule."

Bagbalm's picture

Why yes, and if somebody rapes you under anesthesia it doesn't count either.

bdub2's picture

We are simply in the 1980 pre-quel part of Orwell's 1984:

HOW BB BUILT the Ministry of Truth. 

The parts where, like Comrade Alatovkrap described, strand by strand. Events like Roger's justification---Public outrage! Then forgotten about, then something even worse from Rogers, more outrage, more boiling water. And it's been mentioned ad nauseum, here especially, but the similarities to 30's Germany are uncanny. That Blue Print is being followed to the letter. 

I am certain of this: In another reality, Oceania IS defeated and brought to utter RUIN. Imagine that actually coming to fruition for a moment. Toppling all of Today's vile leeches and viruses: Oboy, Feinstain, Yellen, Kerry, well,,,nearly all of this congress, the list goes on, too many. 

Doesn't seem like this particular reality is heading in the right direction, just yet. 


TheObsoleteMan's picture

So, if it is ok for the gubmint to spy on us as long as we aren't aware, then it is ok to have sex with women who have passed out {the only action I can get at my age}? As long as they aren't aware,no harm, no foul? Sick thinking. Well, I don't know about you, but this statement confirms what I have known for sometime now;SOCIOPATHS ARE AT ALL LEVELS OF OUR GUBMINT.

Element's picture

Feed the jerk some roofies and throw him to the fags, it's not a violation if he doesn't know about it. Make sure there's a video, given it's not a violation, and privacy, decency, rights and legality aren't an issue anymore.

midtowng's picture

If someone breaks into your house and you aren't there to witness it, then it didn't really happen. According to the NSA.

HerrDoktor's picture

If you believe it, it's not a lie.

GreatUncle's picture

What Rogers is really saying is that the government has the right to spy on everyone so long as it doesn’t get caught doing so.

What you fail to mention is that if a person does not have full and total control over THE INFORMATION INTERFACE then they are fair game for government(s) to spy on.

The problem with this is the person is not entitled to the control over the interface. So you buy a computer with Microsoft / Apple installed. WHO'S A CLEVER BOY THEN but by using this interface software you fall into the trap of having no control over the interface and the interface is not available in the public domain for scrutiny.

You want an ipad / etc go for it, but without full control over the interface you WILL BE SPYED UPON and in fact it is legitimised spying by ensuring this is possible.

To deal with this all mobile phones / ipads should have a PRIVACY NOTICE on purchase then you WAIVER YOUR RIGHTS at this point and with the words INCLUDING ALL SOFTWARE YOU INSTALL ON THE DEVICE.

SubjectivObject's picture

Great Uncle Sam, I suppose.

"... should have a PRIVACY NOTICE on purchase then you WAIVER YOUR RIGHTS at this point ..."

... or no phone becuse no carrier can face down the USG/NSA.  What a fabulus choice you constrain us to.  How about:  "User must call USG/NSA to approve and activate spying on user"?  That seems sconsistent with Constitutional protections.

pupdog1's picture

Today, I called Mike Rogers' DC office to express my disgust with his Stalinesque comments in the House Intelligence Committee hearing yesterday.

My grandfather fought in WWI and WWII, my father led men in front-line naval combat in WWII, and my would-be uncle died in WWII.

All were from Rogers' state--Michigan.

Half-way through my explanation of how they fought against exactly the kind of fascism that Rogers is now espousing, the snarky little fuck aide that I was talking to laughed at me and hung up.

This aide, therefore, laughed at my grandfather, father, and would-be uncle.

This is Mike Rogers.

daemon's picture


"Rogers: Somebody who’s privacy was violated. You can’t have your privacy violated if you don’t know your privacy is violated."


"Vladeck: I disagree with that. If a tree falls in the forest, it makes a noise whether you’re there to see it or not."


Quantum politics, anyone ?


Bruce Flea's picture

Must be. That would be the only possible explanation for the astonishing ability to see the noise a tree makes when it falls.

Doubleguns's picture

"You can’t have your privacy violated if you don’t know your privacy is violated."


So haveing sex with passed out coeds is not rape now.

seabiscuit's picture

Mike may want to pass the new "Americans Upskirting and Jobs Act".  Hell, we don't want the terrorists to win!


What don't you like about freedom?



cherry picker's picture

I stay away from web sites such as facebook, linkedin and so on.  Many people I know, including my children, ridicule me at times for avoiding these sites. 

Over a decade ago I was prevented from crossing the border into the USA.  While I waited for my disposition, I discovered how much information the US Government knew about me, a Dutch born Canadian Citizen.  I must add that I never served time in a penitentiary, am not a terrorist and have a background in IT, database management and programming.  The refusal of the authorities to allow me access to the USA prevented me from seeing my American children for years.

For good reason, I avoid anything that the NSA (National Snooping/Spook Association) has anything to do with.

Today I read the following article.


It appears it is time to un google and un yahoo myself from the world and find another method of searching the Internet and I implore all who use any services the NSA has their grasp on to quit using them.  When it hits their pocketbooks, it may jolt these mega corporations and .gov to back off big time.

For now, I hope nations prevent all American firms which allow NSA access to data and personal information from operating in their countries, and that includes companies such as AT&T, Verizon, Microsoft, Apple and so on.

It is about time big brother is taken down a few notches.

Together we stand, divided we shall fall.

Fíréan's picture

In response to Cherry Picker.
Script, which we can't see, blocked on this ZH website page , blocked by Firefox add-on "noscript", includes Facebook.net, Googlesyndication.com, Twitter.com, Linkedin.com.
Tracking cookies blocked by Ghostery (a mozilla Firefox browser add-on) also om ZH website ,before logging in. include : Facebook Connect, Linkedin widgets, as well as adblade and dooble click'

So even when you avoid the mayor websites which you mentioned in your post, those companies have script written into other less obvious websites and their cookies posted too. To where-ever the "script" links your computer, you would not normally ever know.

highwaytoserfdom's picture

Can't contain myself I am a dangeious driver on the Beltway in DC as the one had on the wheel the other flipping off NSA... 

These DNC/RNC war mongers are going to face Neuenberg ends..


..quid leges sine moribus vanae proficiunt? ("of what avail are laws with no morals?  Horace

highwaytoserfdom's picture

Mike Rogers won by 110 votes...He has to be defeated at all cost..

Then the hegemonic empire can finish the JPM mortgage and go after he GE commercial paper thieft..   


  • Aegis LLC a "security" defense contractor company,received a 10 b dollar contract......Rogers Wife CEO
  • Aegis   CISPA 
  • Boston bombings Rogers Dianne Feinstein squeezed between two Drone commercials Meet the Press (Gregory married to Oklahoma city bombing prosecutor) #falseflag no Greenwald Gotcha that day....  

Rogers Cash on Hand  Cycle....  Any contributor should be boycotted


The man is nothing short of a war criminal. The arch villain on American values of life. liberty and is a LEADER IN THE pursuit of haplessness(like pun), 




koan's picture

Sounds like the congressional equivalent of Rohipnol.

doctor10's picture

Roe v. Wade


Roe did far more than establish the right to abortion; it solidified and expanded the constitutional “right to privacy,” which has also been described as the right to autonomy or to be let alone.  This right to privacy is part of the right to liberty protected by the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments, which state that no person shall be deprived of “life, liberty or property, without due process of law.”


Mr. Mike needs skoolin'

War_is_Peace's picture

"...without due process of law." is the operative phrase.  These assholes have made it legal to spy on American citizens through their secret courts and secret interpretation of unconstitutional laws.  That, in my opinion, is treasonous and a blatant violation of their oaths of office to defend the Constitution.

BullyBearish's picture

Sounds like another dirtbag politician, "It's not illegal if the President does it"

TheFreeLance's picture

I'm gonna go fuck Mike's hot little lobbyist wife and not tell him about it. Never happened.


DOT's picture

Former Aegis CEO; figures.

Widowmaker's picture

Why not, she's already fucking you.

Take naughty pictures of her and post them on Shitface Book.  No harm as long as its only your friends that see. Hats off to Mike's so called lawless privacy.

Rogers is Congressional rot on full display.  Affirmed by Kangaroo Kourt Ink, the rule of law doesn't apply as long as one doesn't get caught.   What's good for the "government" goose is good for the gander - with precedent.

It's too bad Michigan can't do better.  That place continues to decline in leadership and common sense.


TheFreeLance's picture

Hey, there IS no rule of law. Not since the 2008 meltdown at least. Last stop, FEMA internment camps for the lot of us.

Urban Redneck's picture

Mike Rogers is 1) a TRAITOR to the United States of America and 2) Intellectually and Experientially INCOMPOTENT to conduct effective oversight of US intelligence operations.

Gathering and storing information CREATES risks, and one seeking to do damage to the US does not have to compromise the core US domiciled data warehouses to obtain extremely valuable information.

For example, if I wanted to extract information from the CIA station chief in Bern, I do not need a Hollywood production and budget to hack into a secured mainframe in Langley, VA. All I need to do is is obtain a list of all US Embassy personnel, their home addresses, and immediate family members (LEVERAGE) in three parts from UBS, CS, and BCBE, and do some rather basic processes of elimination.

In case the example of Switzerland is a little obtuse, consider the example of William Buckley in Lebanon, and all the additional tools Hezbollah would have had its disposal had they snatched his family too, and it's not like they don't have plenty of "friends" in the local banks who would willingly provide that information free of charge.

Which brings me back to dumb little Mikey. Mikey has a wife and daughter whom he is very proud of and claims to love dearly. Unfortunately, he doesn't understand the value of data and the ease with which can be obtained particularly in the US. Google search engines will gladly connect any nutcase or local representative of a hostile power with a US billing address with the personal contact details of Mikey's beloved wife and daughter in exchange for a simple credit card number and few dollars being charged to it. One doesn't even need the minimal computer skillz to borough into the unsecured DHS database to obtain such information.


Big (Data) Business in bed with Big Government compromises national security.

geewhiz's picture

Lesson learned by half the world already; tax evasion is legal as long as you don't get caught. Careful what you put online, one of the big reasons for all this spying is to feed the IRS information on where to look when they recreate the evidence needed to nail you without admitting they got the knowledge from spying. The underground system will become stronger as evolving response technologies like btc, encryption, parallel networks, friendlier open source operating systems and privacy apps, etc. come into more common use. It will come together over time but is still a genuine pain to deploy now for non technicals. Its just a part of the usual evolutionary arms race between slavers and those who don't want to be slaves. BTW watch for drone countermeasures as well.

overmedicatedundersexed's picture

picture boy for the contempt the elite have for the usa and the worlds common man..I have been amazed at the inability of most in the usa to see the outright slap in the face as obuma was selected and "elected"..as a test of the stupidity of america, barnum knew it, never go broke underestimating the public..eyes wide shut dumb and happy, living in a cave of shadows on the wall..waiting for  Jeb BUSH III to run in 16. why not?

d edwards's picture

This dude has the perfect gestapo mindset for this administration.

Quinvarius's picture

Through legal precedence, I think this guy just invited a whole lot of people to hide in his closet and beat off while he screws his wife. 

Lebensphilosoph's picture

More likely he's the one in the closet beating off whhile soem other guy fucks his wife.

shovelhead's picture

Thanks a lot.

That image ruined my coffee and bagel.

jughead's picture


tvdog's picture

If you do know, they will say you don't since officially it's a secret and continue anyway. Like Obama pretending he doesn't have a kill list even though it was on the front page of the New York Times.

Dollar Bill Hiccup's picture

Roger's sentence should include forced coitus with the head of the Senate Un-Intelligent Committee.

Since they both have so many state secrets, this would also solve the problem of pillow talk.

Which hole would DF use on Mr. Rogers, to simulate Harvey's bullet holes?

Yes, twisted for sure.

But containing more than a smidgeon of truth.

Dollar Bill Hiccup's picture

Don't worry, a secret court is protecting you secretly from things that you are not allowed to know are happening to you.

That's in the Bill of Rights somewhere, I guess.

Or, it just boils down to this :

"Hey, you f-cked up, you trusted us"

No more trust peeps. What do you do with that?

Oh the horror. Peeps may actually have to start taking responsibility for things themselves.

Ms. Erable's picture

Haven't you heard that the Bill of Rights has been re-written? It's been condensed to the following single amendment:

You have the right to sit down, shut the fuck up, and do everything we tell you to do, including die on command and/or be anal raped - figuratively, literally, or both - at our whim, and you'll do it when we tell you, how we tell you, where we tell you, with whom we tell you, and we don't have to give you a reason or justification as to why because you don't need to fucking know.

Kina's picture

Snowden is a super hero.

Kina's picture

Rogers: Somebody who’s privacy was violated. You can’t have your privacy violated if you don’t know your privacy is violated.


Yes indeed Rogers is a complete scum cunt.


If you cheat on your wife, murder people....it doesn't matter....you have committed no crime if nobody knows about it.

If Roger's wife is spreading her legs for the entire street and their dogs he hasn't been cheated, if he doesn't know aobut it. .....Well he knows about it now, sorry Roger.

q99x2's picture

NSA are morons that aren't worth a crap at corporate espionage. Go beg Somalia for money ya retards.

Go on. Get out of here.

are we there yet's picture

Saying that you are not invading privacy if you're not discovered is like thinking that you're not cheating on your wife if she doesn't know (or viva versa). Not a logical argument.

Things that go bump's picture

Not logical, but often used. People can justify anything.

Jam's picture

Maybe Mr. Rogers won't mind me screwing his wife, that is if... she is not a total Pooch.

McRocket's picture

Rogers is fucked UP.

So if I drug a woman and have sex with her...when she wakes up, she knows nothing of the violation...then I did not violate her (according to Rogers)?

NSA = U.S. Gestapo