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We’re In The Most Dangerous Moment Since the Cuban Missile Crisis

George Washington's picture





 

Scientists Warn of Extreme Risk

We’ve long said that the greatest short-term threat to humanity is from the fuel pools at Fukushima.

The Japanese nuclear agency recently green-lighted the removal of the spent fuel rods from Fukushima reactor 4′s spent fuel pool. The operation is scheduled to begin this month.

The head of the U.S. Department of Energy correctly notes:

The success of the cleanup also has global significance. So we all have a direct interest in seeing that the next steps are taken well, efficiently and safely.

If one of the pools collapsed or caught fire, it could have severe adverse impacts not only on Japan … but the rest of the world, including the United States. Indeed, a Senator called it a national security concern for the U.S.:

The radiation caused by the failure of the spent fuel pools in the event of another earthquake could reach the West Coast within days. That absolutely makes the safe containment and protection of this spent fuel a security issue for the United States.

Hiroaki Koide – a nuclear scientist working at the University of Kyoto – says:

I’m worried about whether Tepco can treat all the 1,331 [spent-fuel] assemblies without any problem and how long it will take.

Award-winning scientist David Suzuki says that Fukushima is terrifying, Tepco and the Japanese government are lying through their teeth, and Fukushima is “the most terrifying situation I can imagine”.

Suzuki notes that reactor 4 is so badly damaged that – if there’s another earthquake of 7 or above – the building could come down. And the probability of another earthquake of 7 or above in the next 3 years is over 95%.

Suzuki says that he’s seen a paper that says that if – in fact – the 4th reactor comes down, “it’s bye bye Japan, and everyone on the West Coast of North America should evacuate. Now if that’s not terrifying, I don’t know what is.”

 

The Telegraph reports:

The operator of Japan’s crippled Fukushima nuclear power plant … will begin a dry run of the procedure at the No. 4 reactor, which experts have warned carries grave risks.

 

***

 

Did you ever play pick up sticks?” asked a foreign nuclear expert who has been monitoring Tepco’s efforts to regain control of the plant. “You had 50 sticks, you heaved them into the air and than had to take one off the pile at a time.

 

“If the pile collapsed when you were picking up a stick, you lost,” he said. “There are 1,534 pick-up sticks in a jumble in top of an unsteady reactor 4. What do you think can happen?

 

I do not know anyone who is confident that this can be done since it has never been tried.”

ABC notes:

One slip-up in the latest step to decommission Japan’s crippled Fukushima nuclear plant could trigger a “monumental” chain reaction, experts warn.

 

***

 

Experts around the world have warnedthat the fuel pool is in a precarious state – vulnerable to collapsing in another big earthquake.

 

Yale University professor Charles Perrow wrote about the number 4 fuel pool this year in the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists.

 

“This has me very scared,” he told the ABC.

 

Tokyo would have to be evacuated because [the] caesium and other poisons that are there will spread very rapidly.

Perrow also argues:

Conditions in the unit 4 pool, 100 feet from the ground, are perilous, and if any two of the rods touch it could cause a nuclear reaction that would be uncontrollable. The radiation emitted from all these rods, if they are not continually cool and kept separate, would require the evacuation of surrounding areas including Tokyo. Because of the radiation at the site the 6,375 rods in the common storage pool could not be continuously cooled; they would fission and all of humanity will be threatened, for thousands of years.

Former Japanese ambassador Akio Matsumura warns that – if the operation isn’t done right – this could one day be considered the start of “the ultimate catastrophe of the world and planet”:

(He also argues that removing the fuel rods will take “decades rather than months.)

Nuclear expert Arnie Gundersen and physician Helen Caldicott have both said that people should evacuate the Northern Hemisphere if one of the Fukushima fuel pools collapses. Gundersen said:

Move south of the equator if that ever happened, I think that’s probably the lesson there.

Harvey Wasserman wrote two months ago:

We are now within two months of what may be humankind’s most dangerous moment since the Cuban Missile Crisis.

 

***

 

Should the attempt fail, the rods could be exposed to air and catch fire, releasing horrific quantities of radiation into the atmosphere. The pool could come crashing to the ground, dumping the rods together into a pile that could fission and possibly explode. The resulting radioactive cloud would threaten the health and safety of all us.

 

***

 

A new fuel fire at Unit 4 would pour out a continuous stream of lethal radioactive poisons for centuries.

 

Former Ambassador Mitsuhei Murata says full-scale releases from Fukushima “would destroy the world environment and our civilization. This is not rocket science, nor does it connect to the pugilistic debate over nuclear power plants. This is an issue of human survival.”

Even Japan’s Top Nuclear Regulator Says that The Operation Carries a “Very Large Risk Potential”

Even the head of Japan’s nuclear agency is worried. USA Today notes:

Nuclear regulatory chairman Shunichi Tanaka, however, warned that removing the fuel rods from Unit 4 would be difficult because of the risk posed by debris that fell into the pool during the explosions.

 

It’s a totally different operation than removing normal fuel rods from a spent fuel pool,” Tanaka said at a regular news conference. “They need to be handled extremely carefully and closely monitored. You should never rush or force them out, or they may break.”

 

He said it would be a disaster if fuel rods are pulled forcibly and are damaged or break open when dropped from the pool, located about 30 meters (100 feet) above ground, releasing highly radioactive material. “I’m much more worried about this than contaminated water,” Tanaka said

The same top Japanese nuclear official said:

The process involves a very large risk potential.

BBC reports:

A task of extraordinary delicacy and danger is about to begin at Japan’s Fukushima nuclear power station.

 

***

 

One senior official told me: “It’s going to be very difficult but it has to happen.”

Why It’s Such a Difficult Operation

CNN notes that debris in the fuel pool might interfere with operations:

South China Morning Post notes:

Nothing remotely similar has been attempted before and … it is feared that any error of judgment could lead to a massive release of radiation into the atmosphere.

 

***

 

A spokesman for Tepco … admitted, however, that it was not clear whether any of the rods were damaged or if debris in the pool would complicate the recovery effort.

The Wall Street journal notes:

Among the risks [Hiromitsu Ino, professor emeritus of nuclear engineering at the University of Tokyo] and other experts cite is the possibility that a container being used to move the units falls and breaks apart, exposing the fuel to the air.

Similarly,  Edwin Lyman – a nuclear expert and the chief scientist for the Union of Concerned Scientists notes:

The biggest risk with Unit 4 pool unloading is that a spent fuel cask might drop and damage the pool, causing a leak that could expose some fuel and cause overheating.

Professor Richard Broinowski – former Australian Ambassador to Vietnam, Republic of Korea, Mexico, the Central American Republics and Cuba – and author of numerous books on nuclear policy and Fukushima, says some of the fuel rods are probably fused.

Murray E. Jennex, Ph.D., P.E. (Professional Engineer), Professor of MIS, San Diego State University, notes:

The rods in the spent fuel pool may have melted …. I consider it more likely that these rods were breached during the explosions associated with the event and their contents may be in contact with the ground water, probably due to all the seawater that was sprayed on the plant.

Fuel rod expert Arnie Gundersen – a nuclear engineer and former senior manager of a nuclear power company which manufactured nuclear fuel rods – recently explained the biggest problem with the fuel rods (at 15:45):

I think they’re belittling the complexity of the task. If you think of a nuclear fuel rack as a pack of cigarettes, if you pull a cigarette straight up it will come out — but these racks have been distorted. Now when they go to pull the cigarette straight out, it’s going to likely break and release radioactive cesium and other gases, xenon and krypton, into the air. I suspect come November, December, January we’re going to hear that the building’s been evacuated, they’ve broke a fuel rod, the fuel rod is off-gassing.

***

I suspect we’ll have more airborne releases as they try to pull the fuel out. If they pull too hard, they’ll snap the fuel. I think the racks have been distorted, the fuel has overheated — the pool boiled – and the net effect is that it’s likely some of the fuel will be stuck in there for a long, long time.

In another interview, Gundersen provides additional details (at 31:00):

The racks are distorted from the earthquake — oh, by the way, the roof has fallen in, which further distorted the racks.

 

The net effect is they’ve got the bundles of fuel, the cigarettes in these racks, and as they pull them out, they’re likely to snap a few. When you snap a nuclear fuel rod, that releases radioactivity again, so my guess is, it’s things like krypton-85, which is a gas, cesium will also be released, strontium will be released. They’ll probably have to evacuate the building for a couple of days. They’ll take that radioactive gas and they’ll send it up the stack, up into the air, because xenon can’t be scrubbed, it can’t be cleaned, so they’ll send that radioactive xenon up into the air and purge the building of all the radioactive gases and then go back in and try again.

 

It’s likely that that problem will exist on more than one bundle. So over the next year or two, it wouldn’t surprise me that either they don’t remove all the fuel because they don’t want to pull too hard, or if they do pull to hard, they’re likely to damage the fuel and cause a radiation leak inside the building. So that’s problem #2 in this process, getting the fuel out of Unit 4 is a top priority I have, but it’s not going to be easy. Tokyo Electric is portraying this as easy. In a normal nuclear reactor, all of this is done with computers. Everything gets pulled perfectly vertically. Well nothing is vertical anymore, the fuel racks are distorted, it’s all going to have to be done manually. The net effect is it’s a really difficult job. It wouldn’t surprise me if they snapped some of the fuel and they can’t remove it.

The Japan Times writes:

The consequences could be far more severe than any nuclear accident the world has ever seen. If a fuel rod is dropped, breaks or becomes entangled while being removed, possible worst case scenarios include a big explosion, a meltdown in the pool, or a large fire. Any of these situations could lead to massive releases of deadly radionuclides into the atmosphere, putting much of Japan — including Tokyo and Yokohama — and even neighboring countries at serious risk.

Reuters notes:

Experts question whether it will be able to pull off the removal of all the assemblies successfully.

 

***

 

No one knows how bad it can get, but independent consultants Mycle Schneider and Antony Froggatt said recently in their World Nuclear Industry Status Report 2013: “Full release from the Unit-4 spent fuel pool, without any containment or control, could cause by far the most serious radiological disaster to date.”

 

***

 

Nonetheless, Tepco inspires little confidence. Sharply criticized for failing to protect the Fukushima plant against natural disasters, its handling of the crisis since then has also been lambasted.

 

***

 

“There is a risk of an inadvertent criticality if the bundles are distorted and get too close to each other,” Gundersen said.

 

***

 

The rods are also vulnerable to fire should they be exposed to air, Gundersen said. [The pools have already boiled due to exposure to air.]

 

***

 

[Here is a visual tour of Fukushima's fuel pools, along with graphics of how the rods will be removed.]

 

Tepco confirmed the Reactor No. 4 fuel pool contains debris during an investigation into the chamber earlier this month.

 

Removing the rods from the pool is a delicate task normally assisted by computers, according to Toshio Kimura, a former Tepco technician, who worked at Fukushima Daiichi for 11 years.

 

“Previously it was a computer-controlled process that memorized the exact locations of the rods down to the millimeter and now they don’t have that. It has to be done manually so there is a high risk that they will drop and break one of the fuel rods,” Kimura said.

 

***

 

Corrosion from the salt water will have also weakened the building and equipment, he said.

ABC Radio Australia quotes an expert on the situation (at 1:30):

Richard Tanter, expert on nuclear power issues and professor of international relations at the University of Melbourne:

 

***

 

Reactor Unit 4, the one which has a very large amount of stored fuel in its fuel storage pool, that is sinking. According to former prime Minister Kan Naoto, that has sunk some 31 inches in places and it’s not uneven.

And Chris Harris – a, former licensed Senior Reactor Operator and engineer – notes that it doesn’t help that a lot of the rods are in very fragile condition:

Although there are a lot of spent fuel assemblies in there which could achieve criticality — there are also 200 new fuel assemblies which have equivalent to a full tank of gas, let’s call it that. Those are the ones most likely to go critical first.

 

***

 

Some pictures that were released recently show that a lot of fuel is damaged, so when they go ahead and put the grapple on it, and they pull it up, it’s going to fall apart. The boreflex has been eaten away; it doesn’t take saltwater very good.

Nuclear engineers say that the fuel pool is “distorted”, material was blown up into air and came down inside, damaging the fuel, the roof fell in, distorting things inside.

Indeed, Fukushima documents discuss “fuel that is severely damaged” inside cooling pool, and show illustrations of “deformed or leaking fuels”.

The Urgent Need: Replace Tepco

Tepco is severely downplaying the risks involved in removing fuel rods. For example, Tepco’s head of the Fukushima plant, Akira Ono, says:

We have removed spent fuels many times. Therefore, we don’t think we are going to be doing anything that is very dangerous.

That is idiotic given that (as shown above) this is anything but a normal fuel removal operation.

Tepco is incompetent and corrupt, and has been in cover-up mode since day one. As such, it is the last company which should be in charge of the clean-up.

Top scientists and government officials say that Tepco should be removed from all efforts to stabilize Fukushima. They say that an international team of the smartest engineers and scientists should instead handle this difficult mission.

Bloomberg notes:

Prime Minister Shinzo Abe is being told by his own party that Japan’s response is failing. Plant operator [Tepco] alone isn’t up to the task of managing the cleanup and decommissioning of the atomic station in Fukushima. That’s the view of Tadamori Oshima, head of a task force in charge of Fukushima’s recovery and former vice president of Abe’s Liberal Democratic Party.

 

***

 

[There's] a growing recognition that the government needs to take charge at the Fukushima station…. “If we allow the situation to continue, it’ll never be resolved” [said Sumio Mabuchi, a government point man on crisis in 2011].

Because the U.S. controls Japanese nuclear policy, Americans should demand of our political representatives that they pressure Japan to kick Tepco off the job ... and let an international team of scientists and engineers take over.

Postscript: As challenging as removing the fuel rods from the pool at unit 4 will be, it will be even harder at units 1 through 3. Specifically, it's too radioactive for Tepco to even get a look at what's going on in those 3 reactor pools, and they have no idea how to do it. Indeed, the technology does not even exist to approach those reactors, as the high radiation levels quickly destroy even robots.

Nuclear fuel rod expert Gundersen says the pool at unit 3 is in much worse shape than at 4:

Unit 3 is worse [than No. 4]. Mechanically its rubble, the pool is rubble. It’s got less fuel in it [than unit 4, but] structurally the pool has been dramatically weakened. And, god nobody has even gotten near it yet.

Tepco's not up to it ... we need a focused, well-funded international effort to fix this mess.

 


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Mon, 11/11/2013 - 02:58 | Link to Comment hangemhigh77
hangemhigh77's picture

Screw it just build an amusement park over it

Mon, 11/11/2013 - 18:51 | Link to Comment MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

make it a waterpark and call it the Yu-rain-ium!

Mon, 11/11/2013 - 00:21 | Link to Comment TheRideNeverEnds
TheRideNeverEnds's picture

seems pretty bullish to me. 

 

1800 get!

Sun, 11/10/2013 - 23:28 | Link to Comment Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Harry Reid, 

How will you spin that [half white guy you call the boss] when discussing global climate initiatives under Presidential Executive order?

Sun, 11/10/2013 - 22:22 | Link to Comment The Heart
Sun, 11/10/2013 - 21:53 | Link to Comment Spanky
Spanky's picture

5/5

Thank you and god bless GW, wherever you may be...

You win my own personal Molly Ivins Award. (A rare feat.)

Sun, 11/10/2013 - 21:28 | Link to Comment jmaloy5365
jmaloy5365's picture

Most of the report by GW is blown way out of proportion.

There will be NO mushroom clouds from exposed fuel.

There will be NO lethal dose of radiation floating over to the states and killing people.

I work in this shit everyday, I do it for a living. A lot of what is being said is completely incorrect.

Mon, 11/11/2013 - 18:55 | Link to Comment MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

This is a first time event.

No one has EVER EVER worked in a nuclear disaster zone of this nature. You never have.

Once those thousands of fuel rods all smack together in the next storm or accident or quake the world will fucking burn. That lethal radiation will be carried by particles, LOTS of them, into the jet-stream & North American can kiss its ass goodbye just like that.

Sun, 11/10/2013 - 22:26 | Link to Comment Spanky
Spanky's picture

-1

For... slack jawed technological stupidity.

I work in this shit everyday, I do it for a living. A lot of what is being said is completely incorrect. -- jmaloy5365

So did I. And from best I can determine, this is pretty much a worst case scenario. But that doesn't bother you, obviously, with your cavalier dismissal. It doesn't take a mushroom cloud to cause genetic abnormalities and gross mutations. Indeed, "high" radiation events may be responsible for "leaps" in species mutation and thus assist evolution. But in the short term, say the next one hundred (thousand) years, there will be many billions of failed human genetic experiments, sickness and death.

The best analogy is the initial adoption of steam power. In the beginning, after many tragic boiler explosions, materials technology and standardized operator training (regulation) finally caught up with steam's potential. The problem here, however, is that by-products of nuclear power plant disasters are not inert and act unpredictably on individual biological specimens (all of us).

By my count, our boiler explosions have been increasing in severity and scope since the 1950s. But we've not yet gotten the message -- we're playing with fire. If we don't wise up, we will get burned.

And perhaps we are already alight...

Sun, 11/10/2013 - 21:48 | Link to Comment Fish Gone Bad
Fish Gone Bad's picture

Then I bet the 15 country workers study must have really pissed you off. The main analyses included 407,391 nuclear industry workers who were employed for at least one year in a participating facility and who were monitored individually for external radiation. The total duration of follow-up was 5,192,710 person-years, and the total collective recorded dose was 7892 Sv.

Heres the link.  http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=11340&page=336 

The BEIR VII study was headed up by Richard R. Monson, M.D., Sc.D. (chair), associate dean for professional education and professor of epidemiology at the Harvard University School of Public Health.

http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=11340&page=379

Sun, 11/10/2013 - 21:02 | Link to Comment The Heart
The Heart's picture

Not much to add after all this fine input here. How this will turn out is almost certain. What everyone should be pushing for, is the stopping of this out-of-control nuklear monster. IF, there is ANY chance at all using all of mankind's ingenuity and technological skills to stop this, then EVERYBODY on board must be sending demands to those who can actually make this happen every darn day via email, phone, fax, and hand written letters.

Yes, it is hard to focus on any one thing like this because of all the other distractions, crimes, corruptions, and things that are going on. Even mere survival is getting to be a real effort in these daunting days. But the truth of the matter is, all people need to realize nothing else is going to go on IF this is not stopped like, yesterday! The world's people better wake up to this and DO something about it now, if not but to at least self-prepare and protect. The other alternative is to just resolve to die along with their families, and friends.

Just wanna say thanks to all of you good hearts that are sharing your light and good information. It is a grand honor to be here among so many bright and awesome stars. Together, we are one Universe.

Give thanks.

Sun, 11/10/2013 - 20:07 | Link to Comment doMiKY
doMiKY's picture

Do you see any indication that the U.S. will be going back to a market economy?

Do you see any indication that the U.S. government is going to protect (what's left of) the middle class?

Do you see any indication that the U.S. government wants to keep the dollar as a "reserve currency"?

Do you see any indication that the U.S. government could keep the dollar as a "reserve currency" if it wanted to?

 

http://www.arabianmoney.net/gold-silver/2013/07/21/rumors-that-china-is-planning-to-move-to-a-gold-backed-yuan-currency/

 

"Gold still represents the ultimate form of payment in the world. Fiat money in extremis is accepted by nobody.  Gold is always accepted." - Alan Greenspan - Congressional Testimony, May 20, 1999

 

 

Mon, 11/11/2013 - 05:13 | Link to Comment Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

I do not see the USA returning to a Market Economy in the near future. I do not see the US Government doing anything but eviscerating the Middle Class.

 

Then you ask, "Do you see any indication that the U.S. government wants to keep the dollar as a "reserve currency"?"

 

Do I see wars and proxy wars in the Middle East?  Why are those wars being waged? Would you consider that an indication that the US Government wants to keep the Dollar as the World Reserve Currency?

 

Will they be successful? I do not think so.

 

What does this have to do with Fukushima? Where is the relevance?

Sun, 11/10/2013 - 19:35 | Link to Comment JamesBond
JamesBond's picture

So I asked my wife (who is in Tokyo at the moment) her thoughts and this is what she wrote back..  Oh, the sanguine Japanese.  

=====

 

They talk about those things every day and I no longer keep up with it.  They don't tell the truth and we don't know what to believe.  Probably a lot of radiation in food already we are consuming.  Never telling.  

++++++++
Sun, 11/10/2013 - 17:33 | Link to Comment Son of Captain Nemo
Son of Captain Nemo's picture

These two unfortuneately put it into deep perspective.  The story about the people of Fukushima that the Western media won't talk about.

And of course a petition with only 150,000 signatures given the magnitude of this crisis after nearly 3 years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKCZ9N5qaOg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMWmEbIuWkE

 

http://www.popularresistance.org/take-action-for-international-assistance-with-the-crises-at-fukushima/
Sun, 11/10/2013 - 08:05 | Link to Comment Ned Zeppelin
Ned Zeppelin's picture

Thanks George this is reporting you don't get anywhere else.

Sun, 11/10/2013 - 02:10 | Link to Comment SokPOTUS
SokPOTUS's picture

Look guys; do I think GW hates Nuclear Power?  Yes.  Do I think he has an Agenda?  Absolutely.  Do I think he exaggerates in his posts?  Probably. 

But I tell you this:  I read every single one of his posts on Fukushima as soon as I see them; and every one of the comments.  GW is doing every single one of us a tremendous service by keeping this situation top of mind.  There no coverage at all of these developments anywhere in the U.S. that I know of; it's a complete news blackout here.

Honestly, without GW; an earthquake and tsunami on the other side of the world - how many years ago now? - I wouldn't even recall that it had happened.  Because of GW; I have the most accurate description of the situation that I can hope for; I know when the clean-up will commence, and I know the maximum danger level, even if the maximum never occurs.

Thanks GW.  We appreciate your diligence and passion.

 

Sun, 11/10/2013 - 20:36 | Link to Comment Fish Gone Bad
Fish Gone Bad's picture

I wouldn't even recall that it had happened.

3/11/11

I for one remember the news quite vividly.  I was on the way home and got the news about the massive tsunami.

As far as George having an agenda, is any name calling really productive?  I honestly love nuclear power.  I love it because it makes a huge amount of cheap energy and I live a long way away from it.  Sure it pollutes constantly with tritium, xenon, and iodine leaking out.  So?  I live a long way away and I don't have to suffer the consequences. 

If Fukushima tips over, blows up, and blankets Tokyo with massive amounts of radioactive death clouds, its not like its not already happening only on a smaller scale and (apparently,) no one is going to (honestly) do anything about it.

The consequences of  the mishandling of Fukushima will not be felt for another 10-12 years.  By then someone else will be in office and it will then be their problem.  Death by politics.

cursing fish cafepress

Sun, 11/10/2013 - 21:50 | Link to Comment Papasmurf
Papasmurf's picture

Nuclear power is not particular cheap when you account for all costs, including the environmental costs.  The cost is borne by others, perhaps next generations. 

Sun, 11/10/2013 - 01:38 | Link to Comment jim249
jim249's picture

All gloom and doom. It is all "if". Watching the msm report, it looks as if a new building has been put up with a new crane. I am sure these people are not as stupid as this article seems to think they are. Is it risky? You bet! Am I going to lose sleep over this? Not a chance of that.

Mon, 11/11/2013 - 05:01 | Link to Comment Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Fact: TEPCO was stupid enough to allow the disaster to happen in the first place.

Fact: They tore down the Natural Sea Wall that protected that valley from Tsunamis.

Fact: They built the reactor in one of the most geologically active places on Earth.

Fact: The same people whom created the problem are the ones whom are in charge of cleaning it up.

Fact: That is a demonstration of Gross Incompetence.

Fact: They were incompetent before the problem occurred.

Fact: They are still as incompetent today.

 

Here is an IF for you.

 

If you choose to trust your future to the incompetent and place your confidence in them that is your choice.

 

Personally I do not trust them. They have not earned any trust whatsoever. I would fire the whole bunch. But that is my opinion and not my decision.

 

But you can choose to do that. It is a free country, right? Sleep well in your denial of the facts.

 

I cannot. I do not think that your choice is rational considering the FACTS. But there is no law that decrees that you must be rational.

Sat, 11/09/2013 - 22:57 | Link to Comment The Shodge
The Shodge's picture

Do they actually know that the equator is not some giant wall going around the world, but just a line on a map?

Sun, 11/10/2013 - 18:25 | Link to Comment Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

It's a menagerie lion running through Africa.

Sun, 11/10/2013 - 00:27 | Link to Comment augustusgloop
augustusgloop's picture

cf prevailing winds & ocean gyres--what happens in the northern hemisphere stays in the northern hemisphere. 

Mon, 11/11/2013 - 04:45 | Link to Comment Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Yes...that is true...in the short term. So let's suppose that the Northern Pacific and Northern Atlantic are depleted of Plankton. Of course that means that Atmospheric Oxygen will be depleted. Of course Atmospheric Currents behave in the same manner as Oceanic Currents as the same Fluid Dynamics apply to both the Ocean and the Atmosphere.

 

But there is Atmospheric Mixing. So it happens at a slower rate to the Southern Hemisphere because of the currents. But it still happens. All the Southern Hemisphere will be good for is buying just a little bit more time. It may buy a few extra years.

 

Watch the movie, "On the Beach".

Mon, 11/11/2013 - 04:45 | Link to Comment Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Yes...that is true...in the short term. So let's suppose that the Northern Pacific and Northern Atlantic are depleted of Plankton. Of course that means that Atmospheric Oxygen will be depleted. Of course Atmospheric Currents behave in the same manner as Oceanic Currents as the same Fluid Dynamics apply to both the Ocean and the Atmosphere.

 

But there is Atmospheric Mixing. So it happens at a slower rate to the Southern Hemisphere because of the currents. But it still happens. All the Southern Hemisphere will be good for is buying just a little bit more time. It may buy a few extra years.

 

Watch the movie, "On the Beach".

Sat, 11/09/2013 - 22:31 | Link to Comment wisehiney
wisehiney's picture

Yes, but the most dangerous moment since the little rat unleashed the black plague was when the King of England underestimated his haberdashers young apprentice, my 14th great grandfather. My cousin swears that Prince Harry is one of us. I kinda sorta can believe that on a night like this.

Sat, 11/09/2013 - 22:05 | Link to Comment bigrooster
bigrooster's picture

Screw this shit.  What are you football picks this week!

/sarc

Mon, 11/11/2013 - 04:33 | Link to Comment Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Arizona State over Oregon State by 21.

 

Go Sun Devils. Penetrate those defenses of the Beavers.

 

And hopefully USC can defeat Stanford.

 

I want my Sun Devils in the Pac-12 Championship. You have to back your school. Just saying...

 

I can go nuts on this without a little distraction. It does not matter all that much anyway at this point. I cannot do a damn thing about it.

 

It is a predicament rather than a problem because there is only a outcome...a negative outcome. That was eloquently pointed out on this Comment Section previously. There are no solutions.

Sat, 11/09/2013 - 21:53 | Link to Comment pondview28
pondview28's picture

It takes perhaps 20-30 minutes to debunk each and every one of these Fukushima posts by George Washington. Quoting Arne Gundersen and Helen Caldicott as if they were some neutral parties is the first hint. Gundersen has no more expertise than thousands and thousands of other people who have worked in the nuclear industry. Caldicott's anti-nuclear bias is even easier to learn about. They make a living by being anti-nuke. The rest of the quotes are hearsay and conjecture. They quote professors and politicians. Almost no nuclear engineers. Do your own research. Learn about issues such as criticalities and what the difference is between them and a chain reaction. Find out what real experts say about how much of a damaged item would actually get dispersed. Read that Fukushima has been crawling with international help from top experts since early on and that Tepco is not operating like some type of lone wolf. This is a nasty situation, but earth-threatening? Jeez.

Mon, 11/11/2013 - 19:27 | Link to Comment MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

AND YET you've failed to debunk this one or any of the others.
If it was so easy you'd do it. You didn't.

TEPCO is operating as a lone wolf. NO ONE has been in other than TEPCO for any clean-up & they've also been covering up the damage since day 1.

Sun, 11/10/2013 - 20:52 | Link to Comment Fish Gone Bad
Fish Gone Bad's picture

This is a nasty situation,

Those are your words.  You wrote them in your second-to-last sentence.  So if Gunderson or Caldicott say them, then they are wrong?  Gunderson was quoting the BEIR VII study (The Biological Effects of Ionizing Radiation).  You can look at the biographies of the authors here: http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=11340&page=379

I give a lot of credence to this guy:

 

Richard R. Monson, M.D., Sc.D. (chair), is associate dean for professional education and professor of epidemiology at the Harvard University School of Public Health. He earned an M.D. from Harvard Medical School and an Sc.D. in epidemiology and biostatistics from the Harvard School of Public Health. He was a Fulbright scholar. His research interests in epidemiology include evaluation of the risks of exposure to radiation, health effects of exposure to machining fluids, and potential health effects of environmental exposure to chemicals. From 1992 through 2004, he was principal investigator of a Superfund program project award from the National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences (NIEHS). Dr. Monson has served on numerous national and international advisory groups, including two committees of the National Research Council (NRC), and on several public and private advisory committees that addressed issues concerning exposure to radiation and the potential health effects of environmental exposure to chemicals. He served as chair for the multinational peer review of the epidemiology program of the U.S.-Japan Radiation Effects Research Foundation (RERF). Dr. Monson was a member of the scientific committee on Effects of Radiation on the Embryo-Fetus, of the National Council on Radiation Protection and Measurements (NCRP). He served as editor of Cancer Causes and Control from 1993 to 1998. Dr. Monson has more than 150 publications in radiation and occupational epidemiology, including the text Occupational Epidemiology.

So pondview28, what credentials are you arguing again?

cursing fish cafepress

Sat, 11/09/2013 - 22:23 | Link to Comment scraping_by
scraping_by's picture

Thank you for implying there are good answers to all questions, so we can take them on faith. 

Thank you for the ad hominem attacks, so we'll know there are bad people trying to fool us.

Thank you for the unsupported universal denunciations so we can also be grandly superior.

Thank you for pointing out that people who don't take money from the nuclear industry can't be trusted.

Thanks for letting us know real = industry and unreal = everyone else.

Thanks for minimizing publicly available knowledge.

We'll sleep well knowing the nuclear industry is looking after us.

Now maybe the story will go away.

Sat, 11/09/2013 - 22:33 | Link to Comment wisehiney
wisehiney's picture

What do you now about scraping?

Sat, 11/09/2013 - 21:11 | Link to Comment Captnkirk
Captnkirk's picture

Better put a couple of coins in the preachers cup cuz we may need a good word at the pearly gates and i don't think it will matter very long what side of the equator your on.

Sat, 11/09/2013 - 22:54 | Link to Comment wisehiney
wisehiney's picture

Just a fighting chance. Or a Party.

Sat, 11/09/2013 - 22:37 | Link to Comment wisehiney
wisehiney's picture

I am thinking that Mr Spock would be diversion enough. If you follow me like my friends did when we were too broke to get into the show, you will be home free.

Sat, 11/09/2013 - 20:56 | Link to Comment U4 eee aaa
U4 eee aaa's picture

This would probably put a kink in my 'buy land' plan

Sat, 11/09/2013 - 19:32 | Link to Comment carlin401
carlin401's picture

why worry?

obama is going to send team ACA aka obama-care to fix TEPCO,

low cost felon labor made in ameriKKKa,

Sun, 11/10/2013 - 01:48 | Link to Comment SokPOTUS
SokPOTUS's picture

Word is Kathleen Sebelius has just excluded Iodine Tablets from Obamacare.  Something about balancing the Budget.

Sat, 11/09/2013 - 19:12 | Link to Comment Elliptico
Elliptico's picture

Let's do the Apocalypso!

Sat, 11/09/2013 - 15:45 | Link to Comment americanspirit
americanspirit's picture

There are a lot of people talking about an evacuation of central Japan if that bitch blows. But let's do the math. How many flights would it take to evacuate 30-40 million people at 600 souls per flight? Assuming that one plane could take off every 10 minutes from Narita, how long would that take on a 24/7 schedule? How long would the lines be - 100 miles or so? Where would the money come from? And finally, where would they be allowed to land since the aircraft would be heavily contaminated after the first few rounds.

My guess is that TEPCO - aka the Japanese government - will simply distribute cyanide pills. A huge percentage of Japanese would probably take that option. Sayonara.

Sat, 11/09/2013 - 21:25 | Link to Comment scraping_by
scraping_by's picture

Think in terms of ships. Still the best way to move large volumes of cargo, even if that cargo is human bodies.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/15/automobiles/around-the-world-with-5500...

Say about six people in the space for one sedan. That would be 33,000 for one trip. Say 1/2 day to mainline china or russia, 4 days to Seattle (which would require water; they can go wihtout food for that long but remember the rule of three). Don't know how many in the Japanese fleet, but still, even ten could get over a million to mainline Asia in less than a week.

But, then they'd be in China.

Mon, 11/11/2013 - 00:50 | Link to Comment drendebe10
drendebe10's picture

Jeez, i wonder what will happen to all those progressive liberal democraps on the Left Coast.  That's too bad.  

Sun, 11/10/2013 - 01:50 | Link to Comment SokPOTUS
SokPOTUS's picture

Ha.  No way in *Hell* China takes them...

Sat, 11/09/2013 - 21:57 | Link to Comment lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

But then, China would finally have people to fill their tens of millions of empty homes.

Sat, 11/09/2013 - 12:46 | Link to Comment walküre
walküre's picture

The threat of increased serious cancers should encourage Americans to sign up for Obamacare.

NEVER let a good crisis go to waste.

Sat, 11/09/2013 - 12:19 | Link to Comment MSimon
MSimon's picture

Cannabis can cure cancer.

 

 

And stop the worries at the same time. A miracle drug.

 

Get some.

Sat, 11/09/2013 - 23:00 | Link to Comment wisehiney
wisehiney's picture

contradictory canibais,no,cannaibis,no,cannibais, at least I feel better than the defeated speling chump.

Sat, 11/09/2013 - 11:52 | Link to Comment SilverFish
SilverFish's picture

So basically, they're saying that we need to scour all of the nursing homes in the US and find all the people who used to be experts at pick-up-sticks and use their skills to complete the task otherwise we're all fucked.

 

 

Well, that's just great.

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