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THe WReCK OF THe USS OBaMaCaRe...
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Obamacare is more like the cruise liner stuck off Italy. they finally floated the thing (it probably cost more to move it than leave it where it was, negative marketing aside: passengers on the port side will see the wreck of our previous vessel, rusting, a rookery for seabirds, and a reminder that if you don't get food poisoning, the sewer doesn't back up, you don't fall overboard, and the ship doesn't sink you'll probably have a good time. passengers are reminded that this cruise is a reality show, you pay your money, and we see if you will survive... (some people call it death panels, we call it life panels)
first of all Obamacare is not health reform, its a mandated insurance policy, and it reforms nothing, except like above, we take your money, and then we see if you survive, and if you are actually cured of something dangerous we take credit for that
I hope years from now people (and dogs) will see that wreck image and understand completely what happened.
and they should have never cleaned up after 9/11, eventually people would have figured out who was really at fault.
I got massively down-voted on another thread for pointing out the irony that Romneycare in Massachusetts seems to be doing fine. But that fact strikes me as the ultimate proof of Obama's incompetence.
His Richy Rich plutocrat opponent managed to successfully roll out a universal health coverage plan with individual mandate. Yet Obama, even with that example to follow, totally hit the iceberg and sank. (NB. Massachusetts is still there approx. six years after Romneycare launched. It did not explode or sink under the waves, and is not currently on fire. I still can't afford a house in the Boston area, so I am guessing the whole population did not up and leave in protest of Romneycare.)
Romneycare is not "doing fine". MA has the highest insurance premiums in America, they have skyrocketed since Romneycare was implemented. MA's state budget had been hit hard. To get around that, MA has implemented various forms of rationing. MA has the longest wait times in the country to see a new doctor. MA has the highest percentage of doctors that are not accepting new patients in the country. And on, and on...
Say it with me... Socialized medicine doesn't work.
Not if you do corporate-bailout "medicine" and call it socialized (which it isn't).
In Canada it is & it works. I'm here and I know it - I live it.
I see, Quantum, that you have learned nothing from my previous replies to your assertions, and still repeat the canard that Obamacare is "socialized medicine," which demonstrates that you continue to be an adamant political idiot.
I replied to your assetion previously here:
http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2013-11-06/course-obamacare-exchanges-will-be-manipulated
OF COURSE Obamacare Exchanges Will Be Manipulated
I added my kinds of typical replies there to your previous false definition of Obamacare as being "socialist."
For an explanation that that label is FALSE:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQtxcKT-u_Y
ObamaCare: What You're Not Being Told
There are NO good labels for what actually exists, however, here is about four hours on the history of REAL plutocracy.
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/power-principle/
The Power Principle
Obamacare is more fascist plutocracy, than socialism, because it is about the insurance companies being the MIDDLEMEN, that make everything more expensive, while their services are forced upon people by the government. Obamacare is corporatist, NOT socialist!
That is like the government turning over the power of the monetary system to private banks, except this time it is turning over the power over health care to insurance companies. The thing they both have in common is that the IRS is the enforcement arm of the privatization of powers of governments, which were transferred to private corporations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
"Socialism is an economic system characterised by social ownership of the means of production and co-operative management of the economy."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatism
"Corporatism is the socio-political organization of a society by major interest groups, or corporate groups, such as agricultural, business, ethnic, labour, military, patronage, or scientific affiliations, on the basis of common interests."
Corporatism, or fascist plutocracy, is a system whereby corporations control the government, for the benefit of the corporations. Its most important form is the existence of the Federal Reserve Board. However, the emergence of Obamacare is a huge step to advance corporatism, by having the government force everyone to go through the MIDDLEMEN, the private insurance companies.
There is NO social ownership of the medical care system, nor the medical means of production, and no other cooperation than to have the IRS be able to force everyone to participate in the private health care insurance systems. There IS that major interest group, which has successfully lobbied to have Obamacare become law.
However, as I explained in my reply above, as well as I repeat was explained in that video I linked above, people who believe Obamacare is "socialism" are political idiots that were tricked to believe in lies. Those who still believe that, after looking more closely, must be particularly adamant political idiots.
I REPEAT MY BASIC OVERVIEW:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-11-11/guest-post-obamacare-blinding-you-science
Obamacare - Blinding You With Science
"It was a natural and normal assumption that every other field of study could benefit from the application of scientific methods and insights. So, therefore, why not the management of human affairs through government?"
BECAUSE THE OLDEST AND BEST DEVELOPED SOCIAL SCIENCE IS WARFARE, AND SUCCESS IN WARFARE WAS BASED ON DECEITS, EVERYTHING ELSE IN NEOLITHIC CIVILIZATION WAS BUILT ON THAT FOUNDATION.
GOVERNMENT IS ORGANIZED CRIME, CONTROLLED BY THE BEST ORGANIZED GANG OF CRIMINALS. Therefore, more scientific management of human affairs is ALWAYS more scientific management of organized crime. Furthermore, it can not be any other way, since human civilization is the expression of basic energy system laws, in the special case of human beings, which can build self-reflexive models of the world, with which to guide their behavior. However, that ability to operate a conscious model of the world then simultaneously opens the way to have deceits work through the levels of those self-reflexive models.
The PROBLEM is that our real human ecology was built on the history of warfare developing murder systems, therefore, the actual medical system evolved in the context of a monetary system based on frauds, inside of a military system based on deceits. Obamacare is merely more of that madness.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-11-14/what-morning’s-obamacare-announcement-means
What This Morning’s Obamacare Announcement Means
OF COURSE, "The result is a breakdown in the rule of law and an arbitrary system in which the government operates, not according to predictable standards and meaningful rules, but according to political whim and in arbitrary, day-to-day, ad hoc manner."
The international bankers that control the government of the USA already know that their pyramid scheme of debt slavery has grown at an exponential rate until it has produced a situation where its numbers are debt insanity, which have no mathematical ways to ever be fixed again. Therefore, since money is measurement backed by murder, and the debt slavery money system has ALREADY become debt insanity, the "solutions" are for there to manifest death insanities.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-10-30/10-signs-obamacare-going-wreck-us-economy
10 Signs That Obamacare Is Going To Wreck The U.S. Economy
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-10-30/guest-post-obamacares-fatal-flaw
Obamacare's Fatal Flaw
Obamacare is merely another symptom of the general psychotic breakdown of the USA, which is primarily due to its history of being controlled by legalized lies, backed by legalized violence, automatically running away with itself at an exponentially accelerating rate. True "public health care" can not be properly comprehended outside of a systematic appreciation of the overall human ecology. However, America is the greatest manifestation yet of the social pyramid system of the Neolithic style of civilization, which was primarily based upon slavery. Slavery never went away, it merely became more sophisticated, and the inability of most people to see that enabled those more sophisticated forms of slavery to run rampant, without any effective opposition. Everyone living in America is living inside of a debt slavery system, whose numbers are on exponential growth curves, to become debt insanity. Americans are generally the victims of the best brainwashing that money could buy. The most scientific psychology was applied to condition most of them to become incompetent political idiots. The real system is Wolves in sheep's clothing, making sure that enough people become Zombie Sheeple, who are kept ignorant and afraid, so that they can be controlled. Obamacare is merely more of that worm turning.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-10-27/guest-post-plan-not-working
The Plan Is Not Working
Obamacare could not fail as badly as it has unless it was deliberately being designed to fail that badly. Nobody can understand what the government of the USA is really doing unless they go through the processes of thinking about how both the events on 9/11/2001, and the financial crises in 2008, were deliberately designed to happen, as INSIDE JOBS, within a global agenda. The people who are making profit from killing off the American Democratic Republic know what they are doing, and they are getting away with that because the majority of Americans do not.
"Health Care" is something like 17% of the economy, headed towards maybe 20% ... However, it is NOT "Health Care!" It is actually a profit from disease system, which was put in place during the past Century or so by the banksters and their buddies, through the same means as they captured control over the government generally. In particular, foundations funded by the most wealthy people were systematically able to use their ability to fund medical schools, and medical journals, as well as to lobby and fund politicians, to give every possible legal advantage to the dominant profit from disease form of medicine. That did not happen by accident. Of course, it was justified by fragmented, fraudulent "science" pretending to be rational, while actually rationalizing deliberate ignorance towards the basic sciences that should have been applied to understand a better health care system. A Century ago, various forms of alternative medicine were on a more even footing. Today, the dominant monopolizing form of "medicine," which is the profit from disease system, has every legal advantage to advance itself, while suppressing all the other alternatives. That set of problems goes as deep as one wishes to go down that rabbit hole!
THE MADNESS SURROUNDING MEDICAL MARIJUANA IS THE SINGLE SIMPLEST SYMBOL OF THE MADNESS OF HOW OBAMACARE REALLY OPERATES.
Generally speaking, it is practically impossible to get the masses of mainstream morons to begin to understand what is really going on, because they have been too successfully conditioned to not want to know. Obamacare is merely the latest wave of these tsunamis of legalized lies, backed by legalized lies, which are going to finish destroying the American democratic republic, because that is what was planned to be done by the people that control the people that control the government of the USA. Obamacare is the basic insanity of the PROFIT FROM DISEASE SYSTEM, destroying the whole society due to its overall absurd contradictions which make more profit from more disease and suffering, and therefore, does not prevent that, but rather increases it, aided and abetted by the profit from junk food system, and every other interlocking social insanity which now almost totally dominates the USA, as well as almost the whole world.
Fake medicine MUST manifest as being done by professional liars, and immaculate hypocrites, since they can not tell more radical truth to the people, because almost nobody wants to hear that kind of radical truth. Therefore, it continues to be all too common for political idiots to repeat the obviously false statement that Obamacare is "socialist," while those who do that continue to deliberately ignore all the arguments that prove that assertion is false.
On the basis of the view that people get the government that they deserve, one could rationalize that the collective stupidity of the vast majority of Amiercans justifies that they are being fleeced to exhaustion, and being set up to be slaughtered off. But nevertheless, I still feel sorry for the young people who were born into that system, and otherwise are not to blame for how bad it is.
Corporate propagandists long ago figured out that a very simple way to defeat a threat to profits is to brand the protagonist as "socialist", thereby automatically triggering useful hostility in the minds of those who lived through the Cold War and were programmed by endless propaganda to fear the "Reds".
A very simple trick that works well on Americans. It doesn't matter if it's completely false and standard Orwellian doublespeak. Even people who have started to switch on and see the true enemy can be turned around to take up the fight to DEFEND their own enemy against their own best interests.
I've made the same points as you elsewhere on this site but the message doesn't seem to get through. The modern Welfare State is NOT a product of "lefty liberals", quite the opposite, it is a product of right wing authoritarianism which, incidentally, is what all OECD government are closest to, even those referred to (by political idiots) as "left". (Being slightly less right does not make left. Being slightly less authoritarian does not make libertarian).
The aim of the 1% is to end this brief technology driven foray into egalitarianism and return us to the historical binary norm of Lords and Peasants. The following plot shows this beautifully: http://larrywillmore.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Branko-Milanovi...
Expect the dip to broaden leftwards over time.
The psychopaths in charge are not stupid. Like a mosquito using anaesthetic to suck your blood without detection, the parasites must numb the poor while sucking away the wealth of the middle class. As they suck wealth inwards, they cause more of the middle class to fall into Serfdom and so must provide a "safety net" to prevent a shock that leads to retaliation. Of course the safety net is paid for by the remaining middle class.
Numbed peasants do not take up arms and revolt, hence the bread and circuses are provided in abundance. After a time, the peasants start to like their lot and will even fight against any clued in middle class members who try to fight the system (free shit army).
This is why it galls me to see the term "socialism" being so misused. "Political idiots" can't see that the Welfare State is a deliberate product of crony capitalism and its intent is to support the rich getting richer by keeping the losers passive. This continues until the middle classes have been completely destroyed, at which time there is no longer any way to support the Welfare State without the 1% giving up their wealth. By then they have skipped out to the next fertile land of suckers (China) leaving a descent into violence in their wake. Occasionally, they don't get out in time and lose their heads in the revolution.
Nothing about this deliberately designed capitalist system, intended to empower a few psychopaths at the expense of entire nations, can possibly be referred to as "socialist". It's better referred to as "antisocialist" as the end results are antisocial indeed.
Obamacare is even worse than fascist welfare subtly crafted to facilitate wealth extraction because it doesn't even try to hide what it really is: nothing more than a forced movement of wealth from the middle class to the Wall St middleman operating the sickcare industry that stands between patients and their health, thereby adding an unnecessary layer of expense. This is not socialism, it's simply some shuffling of positions within the capitalist crony crowd. Some fresh faces are going to get richer at the expense of the middle class and a whole lot of poor are going to be happy about it, thereby keeping them out of revolt a little longer so the theft can continue.
Status-seeking is in our DNA and the psychopath is never satisfied with its own power, even if the whole world is burning.
Thanks for another good reply, Mediocritas!
As I am sure you are well-aware, there is TRAGEDY in the apparent "success" of "The aim of the 1% is to end this brief technology driven foray into egalitarianism and return us to the historical binary norm of Lords and Peasants." More social polarization is well-correlated to everything else bad that could happen to a civilization, both in contemporary social sciences, as well as in ancient history:
Imbalance between rich and poor
is the oldest and most fatal
ailment of all republics.
--– Plutarch
Verily 'tis the sorest of all human ills,
to abound in knowledge and yet
have no power over action.
--- Herodotus
Quantum That asshat is a troll, I called him out for posting that exact same post (almost word for word) on ZH a couple days ago. They are really trying to plant the idea that this socialist crap will fly. Lost My Shorts go f@#k yourself.
Socialized medicine works well in many places -- the rich can buy gold-plated care if they want, and everyone else gets basic care without being bankrupted. Please punish me with a system like that. Perhaps you don't understand how many Americans live in fear of being bankrupted (or were already bankrupted) by the US system which you seem to think is so much better.
I can't argue the facts on MA, but as I recall, their insurance rates were already the higest in the country prior to Romneycare. Partly that was because they have the most expensive hospitals in the universe (not just the USA) and everyone wants access to them -- Mass General, Brigham and Women's, Dana Farber etc. Partly it was also because they had an uncompensated care pool financed by a surcharge on private insurance. Romneycare was supposed to help that by reducing free riders.
As for ratoning -- healthcare is rationed everywhere always, just by different means. In the USA it's rationed by insurance companies (and private rationing, since it's capitalist (angels singing), is OK, right?) Or it's rationed by ability to pay, which is also fine because if you have no money you are a loser so your death makes the world better anyhow. In a socialized system, it's supposed to be rationed by medical benefit (since people will always overuse a free good unless there are some limits). I would take my chances there, rather than being first bankrupted and then left for dead, which is what would happen if I ever got seriously sick or injured in the USA.
Hmmm - there is some merit to your observation. You need only to categorize your statement by putting it into a temporal context. What you describe was something that existed for a short period of time in parts of Western Europe. These systems are now changing since it´s virtually impossible to keep such a system stable for a long period of time. Austerity is another word for that phenomena of entropy.
Secondly - and this continually surprises med....observers in the U.S. as well as ROW talk of ACA as if this was launched in order to create a Western European health care system. This was never ever the plan. The idea with Obamacare was much more simplistic. Force everyone to buy private health insurance .Make those slightly better off (middle class) pay for those that are destitute,have serious pre-existing conditions , or simply just don´t care , i.e. the majority. On the other end let the insurance companies lower the standards of health care paid for. Less offered for much higher premium is also a way of getting the uninsured become insured. And increasing the profit fr the insurers.
Who benefits - the insurance companies , and to some extent big pharma. Who pays for the party...the middle class and to some extent the health care providers.
I agree socialized healthcare may work if you have a relatively young, fit and healthy population. It cannot work in an increasingly aging, sick and obese population. Children are coming down with Type II diabetes now at alarming rates. I see people on 30+ meds and over 300lbs as an average patient now. They were an anomaly 20 years ago. Superbugs are rampant are increasingly difficult to treat especially in this new normal patient. Routine procedures often have complications in the most unhealthy patients driving up costs. Then there is the whole segment of people who receive care and put nothing in the collective pot. So where is this group of healthy people that will support this? Oh yeah,I forgot,giving amnesty to illegals clearly balances the numbers.
Miffed;-)
affordable socialized medicine is how you never get TO an always-sick population.
Once you're there nothing can save you.
Perhaps self-education & preventative medicine but if one of the consequences of being so sick is being addicted to had habits & toxins in your food then... it's game over.
Question on superbugs: has anyone even tried using colloidal silver on those? Am I mistaken or are these superbugs completely unable to get immunity to it?
the point is if you are smart enough (and lucky enough) to avoid all the dangers to your health, (including genetic flaws) why would you want to subsidize all the people who aren't
perhaps for the sake of a socially & economically stable nation, province (state, in your case) or city that continues to let you live?
Otherwise you need to seriously over-do it on the independence-prepping and can't rely on things like community, employment, etc., since so many others will be dysfunctional (starting with health).
One minute you (not actually you personally, but the anti-socialized-medicine crowd in general) are complaining about rationing, and the next minute, complaining about not enough rationing. In Denmark or New Zealand, people aren't on 30+ drugs because the doctor says no. It doesn't make medical sense so the answer is no. (And the doctor is right.) But in the USA, that's DEATH PANEL DEATH PANEL DEATH PANEL !!!!
We have this insanely stupid system where the poor get free care, limited somewhat to less exalted MDs and facilities, but still free, and unlimited, and run mostly on a cost-plus basis, and the MD from the Captain Crunch Medical School in Grenada can prescribe 30 meds at taxpayer expense just as easily as a Harvard Med School faculty member, and no one can say no. Meanwhile, hard-working but uninsured people are stripped of all assets to pay megamillion hospital CEO salaries, and then if they don't die in the gap between going bankrupt and getting on Medicaid, they go on the taxpayer train too. What a frogging brilliant system, God don't even need to bless America because he already made us the smartest whips on the planet for sure. I feel a patriotic song coming on.
Medical care is like any other service. Socialism always fails since it does not have a price system to keep it reality based. Shortages and poor quality always becomes the norm. No rational price system == no efficient allocation of resources. Those for whom your heart bleeds suffer as a result of your "solution".
I think your name should be "lost my mind".
voluntary socialism has no reason or mechanism to just FAIL.
And it doesn't.
And healthcare is a service unlike any other in existence.
The nearest thing to it is farming which again is incredibly unique compared to other services.
With medicine only the most experienced and/or clever people can be proper providers of medicine, of skill to APPLY medicine, to know what treatments can't work together & to know (and teach) prevention (which is far more effective than medicating).
With socialism the condition is merely to collectively own the means of production (the skill, the medicines, the equipment, the teaching of prevention & how to treat patients).
It works well.
What doesn't work is using something completely non-socialist and pretending it's socialist.
America has no socialized medicine & no attempt to use it - obamasnare isn't socialist.
What is Fascism - John T Flynn - Von Mises - youtube
http://youtu.be/4Ml7-aDXrgQ
It is not always the lack of "no". I agree the system is built on billable procedures. This is how Drs make their money, not by keeping anyone healthy. However, the problem can begin innocuously. I personally had severe asthma 10 years ago. I was on 4 meds to keep me breathing. These meds caused numerous side effects including high blood pressure, headaches, insomnia ....etc. I was prescribed more meds to counteract the effects of the other drugs. Until I personally dumped the entire healthcare model of this country and went on my own pilgrimage to solve my own problems with out pharmaceuticals did I achieve health. I have no asthma or any other condition and take NO drugs. Never once did a Dr offer me help to solve my problem, just take a pill to mask a symptom. Surgery and drugs are the only things the entire western medical establishment is based. They call it "Healthcare" because it sounds good but that clearly is the furthest thing on their minds.
I do not mean to imply all healthcare is bad. Trauma care in this country is stellar. I had an emergency appy and was thankful to have received the care I did. A year ago I underwent surgery to fix my stapes bone that had been damaged in childhood so I could hear better. So, yes I have taken from the system but I have paid for insurance for 30 years and a considerable amount out of pocket. What is draining this country dry is the dramatic rise in chronic care that is the fault of individuals as well as governments and corporations who profit from it.
Miffed;-)
Doctors are to be used like mechanics are.
They didn't design the machine, but if you need someone to use a wrench to fix it, then call a doctor.
They have NO IDEA how the damned thing actually WORKS, by the way. Their 'knowledge' is all by 'trail and error'.
If you have a broken bone, get a doc to splint it. It'll heal all by itself (if given the opportunity), but the PHARMA they give you only fucks you up. if they say you need MOAR, it'll only make it WORSE.
They didn't know how it (your body) actually fucking OPERATES, and perscribed a bunch of shit that did absolutely NOTHING, you are saying (I don't mean to put words in your mouth, but the basic statements seem to apply).
Were you allergic to nano-aluminium, or nano-barium, or perfumes, or WHAT? Just wondering...
Unfortunately, I did not employ a scientific approach to solving my problem which I felt would take too long ( eliminating one thing at a time to see if my symptoms would ameliorate) I eliminated everything at once. All chemical household cleaners, no Big food. no corporate clothing ( found out Chinese manufactured clothing is covered in formaldehyde). I found many great people on the Internet that helped with my quest including a group that did raw juice fasting (which has been shown to particularly efficacious for asthmatics) and I did five, up to 3 weeks, of only raw juices. I did parasite, candida, heavy metal cleanses.I had couseling with a cognitive psychologist and did power yoga for stress relief. I couldn't eliminate the Pharm right away. I had to wean off. After one year I only needed an inhaler for exercise. At the end of 2 years I didn't need any meds at all. This was someone who took 4 puffs of albuterol every four hours 24 hours a day for 25 years plus other meds to ward off attacks. It was expensive,quite difficult and the results were amazing but they didn't occur overnight. I think healing can take a while and people today just don't have the patience or the determination to overcome. Much easier to pop a pill for quick symptom relief.
Miffed;-)
I must say, I am perplexed. When I was younger I also had asthma attacks. I still have an inhaler but that was many decades ago.
I guess more extreme exercise & mold could bring it on now. Even so, in my mid-twenties I could run all across the city nearly non-stop with no asthma attack.
Since then I became a smoker & at one point even a PACK a day smoker (not now) and in that entire time (over a decade) I think I had ONE asthma attack.
I'm not sure entirely what I changed but from age 19 on I didn't touch almost any chips, big macs, etc., I avoid chemical cleaners except for the situations where absolutely nothing else is going to work.
I wouldn't even say I'm excessive on juice or veggies but I consume them regularly in small amounts.
I'd like to know what changed that I actually have less asthma problems as I'm getting older. And I even smoke indoors. It's odd.
It is even better when you walk into an Emergency Room with Insurance.
You may request simple First Aid, a Splint, for your Broken Ankle. You do not want anything else. In fact you are EMPHATIC that you do not want anything else.
But they want to cast the ankle and ring up unnecessary debt. So they refuse Basic First Aid because you refused to rack up a bill to the Insurance Company.
This happened to me on Friday, May 13, 2011, at Grossmont Hospital, Sharp Medical, in La Mesa, CAlifornia, when I broke my ankle. I remember it well.
It healed without a splint or a cast.
What type of Insurance Fraud abuses are the Medical Community going to pull off when the ACA is implemented?
Medicine is a joke. They are more likely to kill you rather than heal you. They are in it for the money. They could not care less about you.
I had my emergency Appy at Grossmont. I came in excruciating pain at 8pm and at 4am was in surgery. They removed it successfully laparoscopicaly but it was covered in massive amounts of pus though had not burst. They were very afraid I was going to have peritonitis and insisted I stay for 3 days in the hospital. My husband had missed giving a presentation at Las Vegas because of me and was going to miss another so I put my foot down and said I wanted to leave ( hell, I wasn't going to miss my free Vegas vacation!). So midnight that night I went AMA. Everyone flipped out saying it was too soon. I just clutched a pillow over the incision and we took off. I spent the week hobbling around Vegas having a great time. You should have seen my husband colleagues faces when he helped me walk into the bar where they were congregated. Their previous assessment of me being a stubborn spitfire were confirmed. The only shock was getting the amount they billed my insurance...40K! I can't imagine the bill I'd have had stayed 3 more days.
Miffed;-)
I recently fractured my left arm [ulna] in a fall. I treated it at home with pain patches under an ace bandage which I covered with a sock I cut the tip off of. I had a sling at home which I used when I was moving around as most of the pain I felt was simply by walking. I saw a doctor a week later when the pain was not subsiding. She told me I had done a good job of caring for it and to continue as needed. There is also a suspected break in my wrist for which she gave me a splint to place over the ace bandage. I see her again in a week to make sure there is no permanent damage. My total cost of care for a broken arm is 34.00 dollars for the splint [its awesome and worth it] and 4.00$ for a squeezy ball I use in my left hand to keep the muscles working. My insurance covered the office visit.
I would hate to think what the bill would have been if I had gone to the ER. Ugh.
Where does socialized medicine work fine?
Great Britain - NO long wait time where patients DIE or go blind awaiting treatment.
Canada - NO - long wait times for any type of non-emergency procedure - people go to US for treatment.
Where else?
With all due respect in Britain it's NOT working fine.
The nurses there are quite inept. My mom's from there, went back to see her dad off into old age & death, and lives in Canada (and was a nurse here until retirement).
It's not Canada, that's for sure.
Simply put, if you tried to implement "Obamacare" or the ACA in Canada, Swden, Norway or Finland, there would be anger and possible violence. As the local citizens started to figure out what a miserable mess this act truly is, they would rebel. It is the worst possible hybred of privitization (read insurance companies working within an act written by Big Phrama) and govt bureaucrats who tried to roll out a national level system with no accountability or cost control measures.
Just like QE, the ACA will reallocate resources to the places they are not needed. In the cases of the ACA this means insurance companies, big pharma and bureacrats will get more and GPs and hospitals will get less while the patient will pay more...
Please do not compare the ACA to what is going on in Canada, the nordic states or many other countries that acxtually have a health care system that provides the basics to almost everyone and gold plating to those will to pay the extra for the private room, private nurse or whatever.
ronaldawg: Not true about Canada. If you are over 80 and need 5 new hips replaced just step right up. If you're a confused gender and need your pee-pee whacked off or a new one put on, just step right up. All of this done at lightning speed while we sit back and wonder why it costs $250 to get a tooth pulled that is almost near falling out on it's own.
As I mentioned a few days ago on another post, Healthcare is free because it prolongs the death cycle and profits of the Big Health Providers. Dental work will never be included in "free" healthcare because a dentist actually has to fix/cure a problem.
/rant
dental care ought to be paid for in Canada but as it is there's at least a good market incentive not to:
good employers (I have one) have good dental benefits. I consider it a fair compensation in lieu of more wages & it's working for me.
As for your nonsense anecdotes about old people & such no, that's bullshit.
Is it cheaper to get a tooth pulled in Canada or your pee pee whacked off?
I lol'd
Depends on the province really. Canada's health care system is not a federal thing ( though the feds supply a lot of the money). Each province has a different system. The more money a province has, the better the system.
The problem with the US system is not that it is "free market" it is because it is not free market. I would say, overall, Canada's system is significantly better than the US system (especially with o'nuba care) but in the end a free market system would be better (though never been tried).
My 72 year old father in law needs a new hip and has been scheduled for some time next summer. He was informed of this this past summer. He is a resident of the province of Nova Scotia. "Significantly better" is OK as long as you don't need to actually use it. My other in laws up there go and sit for hours in "outpatients" waiting to be seen for simple stuff. Sitting there waiting for treatment of pain. flu, whatever- what is the time value of money or treatment? One way or the other, healthcare costs- taxes on cigs, etoh, sodapop, fuel, 16-17%GST (sales), income, property.... Canada is NO panacea- and I like Canada!
Which Province will allow me to illegally imigrate, translate for me, whack my pee-pee, and pull my tooth (OR, pull my pee-pee and whack my tooth), all while taking care of my fat, short, ugly unmarried woman and my 11 children, AND give me food stamps, give me FREE MOAR SHIT MONEY for housing and gasoline, and defend me in legal suits against those who think I'm 'undesirable'?
GOD-DAMNIT! I'M A HUMAN BEAN TOO!
Ironically, England no longer has true socialized medicine. They ended the NHS (no really, it's true). The NHS survives in Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland, but in England they have switched to a system more or less like the US Medicare, where the government does not operate any medical facilities and just contracts with private providers. The whole health system was cronyized ... scuse me I meant privatized. The change started under Thatcher, and just completed under Cameron. So it should be great now, who am I to know.
As for Canada, where is the groundswell of protest, people marching in the streets, demanding an end to their health system and adoption of the US system? Canucks have feet, they can yell, where are they? There are two dozen first world countries around the globe with socialized medicine, where if you cup your ear and listen for a popular uprising demanding US-style crony capitalist health care at 20% of GDP, the silence is deafening.
The US sytem is great for the privileged few -- employed high wage knowledge workers, unionized government employees, the UAW, the rich, the hospital and insurance company CEOs with 8-figure salaries, the oncologists making a million bucks per year. But if you look at the whole picture -- how many people don't get care and how much it costs overall, the US system is the worst. You need to peer through a very thick ideological prism not to see that.
Many hospitals in the UK have been compared to field hospitals during the Crimean War for cleanliness. There is no money for a lot of this in the UK but they have built brand new facilities for Muslims and only muslims. True.
The UK has unionized all the healthcare workers which is another step for ObamaCare. The SEIU and ACORN types plus La Raza will be running US healthcare if this goes through. It is worse than you think.
Unless you are one of the elites who can afford skyrocketing private care. Who the fuck might that be? ;-)
Let me know when modern medicine can reattach someone's head.
ROLL THE GUILLOTINES!
I want to live,
I want to give
I've been a miner
for a heart of bitcoin.
It's these expressions
I never give
That keep me searching
for a heart of bitcoin
Moebamacares a kick in the groin.
Obamacare website software is junk, yet the get-out-the-vote Obama election database got every single illiterate welfare illegal in the US to the pols in ONE DAY. And simultaneously virus bombed the Romney computers and shut them down.
What's wrong with this story? Nothing EVER happens by accident. The question is WHO BENEFITS?
A weird web site is saying MIC injected the web site with Fuxnet (a play on Stuxnet). I really doubt anyone could have FU that badly on a web site. Now Obama wants to use the insurance companies web sites. Hopefully they will get Fuxnet to.
The Doors - Ship of Fools
The human race was dying out
No one left to scream and shout.
People walking on the moon
Smog will get you pretty soon.
Everyone was hanging out
Hanging up and hanging down
Hanging in and holding fast
Hope our little world will last.
Along came Mr. Goodtrips
Looking for a new ship.
Come on people better climb on board
Come on babe we're going home.
Ship of fools, Ship of fools.
The human race was dying out
No one left to scream and shout.
People walking on the moon
Smog gonna get you pretty soon.
Ship of fools, ship of fools
Climb on board
Ship's gonna leave you all, far behind.
"Delivery me from reasons why..." Morrison
"....And her sullen and aborted
Currents breed tiny monsters....
Poise
Delicate
Pause
Consent
In mute nostril agony
Carefully refined
And sealed over"
-- Morrison, Doors, 'Horse Latitudes'
It doesn't matter whether he (Obama) LIED or misspoke. This is his signature legislation and HE is responsible for knowing how it works.
And ALL dems are complicit in the fraud.
It is becoming more and more apparent that all the "facts" used to sell this bill to the public were LIES (mis-statements).
I'm betting they included the extended coverage to CAUSE the cancellations because obamacare won't work unless EVERYONE gets involved.
At worst, this is the most intentionally deceptive piece of legislation ever perpetrated on the American public.
At best, it is the most poorly planned and financially damaging piece of legislation ever perpetrated on the American public.
In EITHER case, it needs to be repealed until a complete understanding of it is determined THEN re-voted on.
The ACA that is "the law of the land" is NOT the one that was originally promoted by the president and Senate.
The dems are using the “impaired website” ruse to stall until after the elections.
Remember this when you're considering the latest news of obamacare:
Are we going to trust the same media that lied about obamacare, when they extoll the virtues of the obamacare “fix”?
How come the “comments” are 95% ANTI-OBAMA, but the “media” polls are only 60% anti-obama ??
We get to “keep” our insurance for one year......until just after the elections, THEN we get cancelled ! And, THEN the Employer Mandate kicks in!
Insurance's are dropping doctors.
Doctors are not accepting obamacare.
The Ted Cruz filibuster and the GOP wanting to de-fund obamacare makes more sense, now, doesn't it?
How dare those rotten T-baggers try to warn us about this catastrophe!!LOL
All you defensive Dem morons saying “They all lie”, isn't the point.
They lied, because if they hadn't, even DEMS would not have supported this bill.
YOUR leaders lied to YOU.
This program is not good for anyone......except for people that are so poor that they can't afford any healthcare, and WE ALL are paying extra so that they can have coverage.
Do we want to trust 20% of the economy to this program and the people who designed and promoted it, who obviously had NO idea of the affects it would have?
If it was, in any way, a good deal, why is the most PRIZED govt/corporate/union accomplishment,
an EXEMPTION from it ??
We need to tell our elected reps this was an ill-conceived, and deceptively promoted TAX. It needs to be repealed, not reworked. When they come up with a program that actually DOES save $$$ (and that will be by cutting profits of insurance, medical suppliers, and pharmaceutical companies) , then they can try it again.
You'll know obamacare is "FIXED" when no one needs to change anything they already have, millions more have coverage, medical costs go down across the board, and it's a good enough program that congress and unions want to be a part of it.
And, hey, I have an idea.......let's READ it first, this time.
"You can fool some of the people all of the time.
And those are the ones we want to concentrate on."
GW Bush
Please, do not repeat the superficial blame "blue team" vs. "red team," boogerbentley. Obamacare is the "logical" development of the PROFIT FROM DISEASE system that took off more than Century ago:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6J_7PvWoMw
Rockefeller Medicine
...and who voted for this stinking pile of shit before they even read it?
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