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For the First Time In 50 Years, a Majority of Americans Think the U.S. Should “Mind Its Own Business”

George Washington's picture




 

Pew noted yesterday:

Majority Says U.S. Should ‘Mind Its Own Business Internationally’

Support for U.S. global engagement, already near a historic low, has fallen further.

 

***

 

The [American] public thinks that the nation does too much to solve world problems, and increasing percentages want the U.S. to “mind its own business internationally” and pay more attention to problems here at home.

 

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These are among the principal findings of America’s Place in the World, a quadrennial survey of foreign policy attitudes conducted in partnership with the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), a nonpartisan membership organization and think tank specializing in U.S. foreign policy.

 

***

 

The public’s skepticism about U.S. international engagement – evident in America’s Place in the World surveys four and eight years ago – has increased. Currently, 52% say the United States “should mind its own business internationally and let other countries get along the best they can on their own.” Just 38% disagree with the statement. This is the most lopsided balance in favor of the U.S. “minding its own business” in the nearly 50-year history of the measure.

 

***

 

After the recent near-miss with U.S. military action against Syria, the NATO mission in Libya and lengthy wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, about half of Americans (51%) say the United States does too much in helping solve world problems, while just 17% say it does too little and 28% think it does the right amount. When those who say the U.S. does “too much” internationally are asked to describe in their own words why they feel this way, nearly half (47%) say problems at home, including the economy, should get more attention.

As we’ve reported for years, the American public is sick of war.

Pew notes that even members of the Council on Foreign Relations agree:

When asked why the public has become less supportive of global engagements, 42% of CFR members point to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, or explicitly cite “war fatigue.” About a quarter (28%) mention the struggling U.S. economy or the costs of international engagement. Other factors cited are the ineffectiveness of recent U.S. interventions (mentioned by 19%) and failures of U.S. leadership (17%). (For more on how members of the Council on Foreign Relations view America’s Place in the World, see section 6).

Because war is bad for the economy and increases terrorism, it’s time to listen to the American people … and the Founding Fathers.

 

Bonus:  

They’re Going to Dump the Fukushima Radiation Into the Ocean

 

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Thu, 12/05/2013 - 07:40 | 4216990 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

The Kennedy Assasination was a coup d'etat. The military is in charge of the government; they like to process huge amounts of money through their hands; some of it sticks. And they get to promote lots and lots of officers. It's not exactly hard to figure out. Until you can figure out how to get the generals and the CIA, their hand maidens, to sit down and shut up; it'll continue.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 07:41 | 4216994 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

Just to pick an example, at random; Afghanistan. What is its purpose? To spend Billions and Billions of dollars. Period. That;s all. there's no mystery.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 19:47 | 4219653 SuperRay
SuperRay's picture

correction - to steal billions and billions of dollars.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 18:11 | 4219211 WarPony
WarPony's picture

Assuring a higher opium crop yeild is also a nice way to put it.  Cheap heroine flooding the world.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 07:38 | 4216986 JailBanksters
JailBanksters's picture

But they can't mind their own Business, really they can't, that should be obvious which is why they are trying to mind everyone elses Business.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 12:36 | 4217806 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Neither Organized Crime nor Legalized Crime can mind their own business.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 07:17 | 4216956 Disenchanted
Disenchanted's picture

A century late and trillion$ short.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 05:02 | 4216840 Martel
Martel's picture

Fingers burnt, no?

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 04:22 | 4216813 basho
basho's picture

'public thinks that the nation does too much to solve world problems,'

wrong

should read

...public thinks that the nation does too much to CREATE world problems,

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 03:17 | 4216771 cherry picker
cherry picker's picture

When I was young and someone wanted to fight someone, they looked for someone to back them, reinforcements or someone to battle for them.  I never did that.  I did it myself.  However the mindset of some of my friends is not much different than that of countries.  They won't fight alone, they need to draw in others.  Like Japan, Isreal and others which demand allies fight with them.  I call that bullshit.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 00:00 | 4216431 wisehiney
wisehiney's picture

A broadside of George Washington's Farewell Address, from the Rare Book and Special Collections Division of the Library of Congress Wikisource has original text related to this article:
Washington's Farewell Address

 

 

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 00:02 | 4216440 wisehiney
wisehiney's picture

Pertinent....

Foreign relations and free trade[edit]

Washington dedicates a large part of his farewell address to discussing foreign relations, and the dangers of permanent alliances between the United States and foreign nations. This issue had taken special prominence in American politics during conflict between France and Britain, known as the French Revolutionary Wars, and the efforts of the Federalists to join sides with Britain and the efforts of the Democratic-Republicans to convince Washington to honor the 1778 Treaty of Alliance, which established the Franco-American alliance, and aid France. Washington had avoided American involvement in the conflict by issuing the Proclamation of Neutrality, which in turn led to the Neutrality Act of 1794. He clearly tries to further explain his approach to foreign policy and alliances in this portion of the address.

Once again making reference to proper behavior based upon religious doctrine and morality, Washington advocates a policy of good faith and justice towards all nations, and urges the American people to avoid long-term friendly relations or rivalries with any nation. He argues these attachments and animosity toward nations will only cloud the government's judgment in its foreign policy. Washington argues that longstanding poor relations will only lead to unnecessary wars due to a tendency to blow minor offenses out of proportion when committed by nations viewed as enemies of the United States. He continues this argument by claiming that alliances are likely to draw the United States into wars which have no justification and no benefit to the country beyond simply defending the favored nation. Washington continues his warning on alliances by claiming that they often lead to poor relations with nations who feel that they are not being treated as well as America's allies, and threaten to influence the American government into making decisions based upon the will of their allies instead of the will of the American people.


Citizen Genêt was the French minister who interfered in U.S. politics

Washington makes an extended reference to the dangers of foreign nations who will seek to influence the American people and government. He makes a point to say that he believes both nations who may be considered friendly as well as nations considered enemies will try to influence the government to do their will and it will only be "real patriots" who ignore popular opinion and resist the influence of friendly nations to seek what is best for their own country. Washington had a recent experience with foreign interference, when in 1793 the French ambassador Edmond-Charles Genêt organized demonstrations in support of France, funded soldiers to attack Spanish lands, and commissioned privateers to seize British ships. His mobilization of supporters to sway American opinion in favor of an alliance with France crossed the line and he was ordered to leave.

Washington goes on to urge the American people to take advantage of their isolated position in the world, and avoid attachments and entanglements in foreign affairs, especially those of Europe, which he argues have little or nothing to do with the interests of America. He argues that it makes no sense for the American people to wage war on European soil when their isolated position and unity will allow them to remain neutral and focus on their own affairs. As a result, Washington argues that the country should avoid permanent alliance with all foreign nations, although temporary alliances during times of extreme danger may be necessary, but does say that current treaties should be honored although not extended. (Despite his claim that current alliances should be honored, Washington had in fact through the Proclamation of Neutrality not honored the Treaty of Alliance, which promised aid in case the French were ever attacked by the British.)

 

Washington wraps up his foreign policy stance by advocating free trade with all nations arguing that trade links should be established naturally and the role of the government should be limited to insuring stable trade, defending the rights of American merchants, and any provisions necessary to insure that the government is able to insure the conventional rules of trade.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 07:11 | 4216951 MickV
MickV's picture

Washington warns direly about the dangers of foreign influence, which was the subject of no less than 6 Federalist Papers. The prevention of foreign influence was also the purpose of the natural born Citizen requirement of A2S1C5, requiring that the President SHALL be a natural born Citizen, i.e born in the US to 2 US Citizen parents.

Barack Obama was born British (and is likely British to this day), to a British subject father, Barack Obama Sr., a native of British conlonial Kenya, who was never a US Citizen or resident. He told you so in his book Dreams From My Father, where he publicly proclaims his foreign influence which has now infected the Oval Office. He also did it to make the public aware that his father was a foreigner, thereby cementing some sort of precedent that one born of foreign parentage could be President. By his Usurpation foreign powers (the NWO Banking elite) are voiding the sovereignty of US Citizens by installing an ineligible executor of the laws.--- If the executotor of the laws is an illegal entity, then there is no law-- and the law is only what evil men say it is.

Washington also said in his farwell address "Let there be no change by USURPATION", which is what is happening with the Presidency of the domestic enemy of the US, Barack Hussein Obama. That he is a foreigner is self evident. We may have now been repatriated to Britain.

GW, of course, refuses to speak the truth. He is a coward. Is he the product of a foreign parent?

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 14:03 | 4218226 Disenchanted
Disenchanted's picture

There's a pretty good chunk in Washington's Farewell Address about the dangers of partisan loyalties too.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 15:16 | 4218600 MickV
MickV's picture

Correct, and particularly by political parties. That address should be required reading in school.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 23:09 | 4216283 bilejones
bilejones's picture

Every time you see the words "global engagement" replace them with "global aggression".

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 06:33 | 4216909 grekko
grekko's picture

How many Generals were forcibly retired this year?  Me thinks the military believes we should mind our own business as well.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 23:04 | 4216252 TyrannoSoros Wrecks
TyrannoSoros Wrecks's picture

I'm sure if we "stay out of other countries' business" and "mind or own business" then China and Russia will do the same right?
If we "minded our own business" during the Cold War, the Soviets would have taken over all of Western Europe and the rest of the world.
China is not "minding its own business" all over the world and unless we engage in intervention guess who's going to control the world?
If you people had your way, we would have "minded our own business" and let the Nazis invade England.
Take Eygpt for example. As a country we "interfered with" we created a stable nation that maintained peace in the region.
Iran, on the other hand was a country that the Soviets "interfered with" and look at the monster they created.
Look at what's happened since the US-friendly government was overthrown. Do you prefer a world where Egypt was run by US-puppet Mubarak or do you like seeing Sunni radicals conquoring county after country around the Mediterranian? What happens when we "mind our own business" and the Muslim Brotherhood (Saudi Arabia) siezes control of all shipping and energy corridors in the Mediterranian? When you control the Mediterranian you control the WORLD. Do you think its coincidence that the Islamists are taking over the southern Mediterrianian at the same time all the nothern Mediterranian nations are being destablized through deliberate economic destruction?
On Planet Earth you have 2 options: be able to project force beyond your own borders or be dominated by someone else who can.
Fortunately for you Isolationists, the obongo administration is intent on weakening US influence around the world so our enemies can take control of everything.
So sit back, crack a beer and watch the world burn without "US intervention".

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 11:45 | 4217626 the grateful un...
the grateful unemployed's picture

i have to agree with you at least on the issue of China which is a gulag by constitutional standards. the problem here is economic aggression, entrance into WTO. when concessions were made (at the government policy level)  in order to trade with China the argument was made that China would need to DEMOCRATIZE in order to keep up in an free trade environment. instead of opening up China, American US technology companies learned how to oppress political dissent, and brought their lessons home for the NSA to use on American citizens. now we are all a gulag. the second lie that had to be told was that there were no ideological differences between us, that in the interest of free trade we could allow our trade partners to run their own system without interference. Such an attitude might have prevented the US Civil War, but Lincoln held slavery in the South to be unacceptable. Not that Lincoln was right, the North and the South could have gotten along living in separate systems if they weren't linked through trade. The point here is modern day US trade policy doesn't need China, there are hundreds of Democratic countries willing to outsource manufacturing. we should ISOLATE them and all countries like them, just as isolating Iran achieves something. Why don't we use economic isolation on China? to be an exceptional nation you have to have some sense of your own value, and America doesn't understand what a dark gray place the rest of the world is, and we need to isolate those who are most fundamentally opposed to our system, to say no we won't trade with you. this is both the moral and effective way to handly US policy, the empire has a lot more to run, and giving up on American exceptionalism now would be a mistake. too sadly military policy is always sent to clear the way for corporations who seek to exploit the poor and their resources for profit.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 11:13 | 4217528 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

TyrannoSoros Wrecks, paranoid net.kook, said:

If we "minded our own business" during the Cold War, the Soviets would have taken over all of Western Europe and the rest of the world.

Anyone who seriously believes this also implicitly believes that the Soviet system was inherently superior to any western system.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 06:37 | 4216915 grekko
grekko's picture

Bull-dung!  Even if the Soviet Union took over all of Europe, it would have collapsed anyway and then Europe would be free again.  Central planning just doesn't work.  Never did (is the Bernank/ESF listening?).

 

"So sit back, crack a beer and watch the world burn without "US intervention".  The world is on fire already, and that is WITH US intervention.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 23:30 | 4216345 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Dear congenitally insentient,

Russia and China are busily rearming because of all the aggressive shit the US does.

The rest of your post is too stupid to respond to.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 23:57 | 4216423 TyrannoSoros Wrecks
TyrannoSoros Wrecks's picture

Yes indeed, because the communist world movement has no intention of world domination even though they have been busily taking over American government and institutions for the last 100 years. I'm sure Mao only killed 60 million Chinamen because of American aggression. And the Gulag Archipelogo was a figment of Solzhenitzen's mind (pretty sure he's really a Goldman Sachs joo bankster) and the Soviet invasions of Poland, Afghanistan, Chechoslavkia, Finland, and Manchuria were all due to US imperialism too.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 16:56 | 4218976 Blood Spattered...
Blood Spattered Banner's picture

You want to talk body counts?  How about 1-2M dead muslims at the hands of US forces and drones?  100 years from now historians will classify our post 9-11 invasion of the Middle East as genocide.  The bodies are really starting to pile up there, and guess what?  99.9% of those cadavers are muslim men, women and children.

You can presently spin geopolitics any way you want to.  But when the true history is written about America's illegal invasion of the Middle East, people like you will be on the wrong side of history.  Hopefully you end up with some curious grandchildren or great grandchildren who ask you why America killed so many Muslims starting in 2001. 

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 12:50 | 4217819 IdiocracyIsAlre...
IdiocracyIsAlreadyHere's picture

Wow are you still swallowing the "commies under every bed" propaganda?  I though adults were supposed to grow out of the childhood fear of monsters but I guess people like you never do.  Yes,  eastern Europe suffered in the immediate post-WWII under Soviet control but the Berlin Wall fell over 20 years ago yet one country still has not pulled back it's vast network of bombs and bases.  Can you guess which one that is?  It sure isn't no-longer-Communist Russia or Communist-in-name-only China

"Communism" was never actually all that coherent of an ideology anyhow, not matter what the bullshit "we HAVE to intervene" propaganda claimed.  It was more the banner du jour for many would be despots and power hungry mobs to rally the masses under (and get free money from the Soviets) just as the US sugar daddy handed out free money and guns to similar despots and mobs who all they needed to claim was being "anti-Communist" to get endless freebies from Uncle Sugar.  It was always a scam and always will be.

Wake up and smell the bullshit for once.  Educating yourself is a wonderful thing.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 00:52 | 4216601 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

"Soviet invasions of Poland, Afghanistan, Chechoslavkia, Finland, and Manchuria were all due to US imperialism too."

How did you get so stupid?

The federal government waged a horrific war with the South because the South wanted to be free from the north.

Wasn't that about a century before the Soviet invasions

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 00:17 | 4216490 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

And I'm pretty sure that Russia is no longer communist, and that China is communist in name only.  Russia and China certainly want more power on the world stage.  Let'em have it.  They'll overextend themselves and go down the tubes, much like we are in the latter stages of doing, and much like the USSR did, and they'll go away eventually.  In the mean time, a clear "don't fuck with us and we won't fuck with you" policy would do just fine. 

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 00:58 | 4216623 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

What are you suggesting? That the USA should relinquish its role as global Peacekeeper? That totalitarian and communistic governments would simply die on the vine without us effectuating the change? Don't all the "little countries" look to us to solve their problems and come to their aid when necessary? How do we spread democracy if we are not assertive in its implementation? My dear sir, you have lost the core of what it means to be a true, patriotic, flag waving American! Shame on you and report for reeducation.

Miffed;-)

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 01:26 | 4216656 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

It seems that at least two people are not able to comprehend that Miffed is capable of sarcasim. 

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 01:30 | 4216676 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Thanks El, I thought that was too obvious for /s. I guess machinists and microbiologists live too much in the practical rather than the ethereal. Nuance is a lost art in the modern world of sexting and twerking I guess.

Miffed;-)

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 01:44 | 4216690 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

Well, the common man drinks beer.  The sophisticated man drinks scotch.  It's late at night on the east coast, and I suspect there are some common east coasters on here and some sophisticated east coasters on here at this time, who have temporarily lost the ability to detect written sarcasm. 

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 14:27 | 4218358 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

"Well, the common man drinks beer.  The sophisticated man drinks scotch."

And the Foodie drinks wine.

 

But the true RaceToTheBottom man drinks

Beer before the meal (any meal)

Wine with the meal (usually a delightful Oregon Pinot)

Scotch after the meal (Lagavilin or it's smoky relatives)

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 00:38 | 4216566 Son of Captain Nemo
Son of Captain Nemo's picture

You make valid points -but that's not Russia's or China's problem and hasn't been for some time.

Just ask yourself what that defensive missile shield that is anything but defensive that the Russian government has been told is to "protect from an incoming Iranian missile attack", being implemented in Poland Hungary and the Czech Republic?  Or for that matter why the EU wants control of the Ukraine with the latests protests in Kiev?

Same with China and it's current air defense mission which is nothing different than the one our military has had in place over the South China Sea for decades, yet when someone else other than the U.S. and NATO puts up an air "defense dragnet" it's provacative.  Numerous Port of Gwadar interference in Pakistan since it's been built by the Chinese to interfere with there commerical tanker fleet...

The world would be a better place without the U.S. military's hegemony and 700 bases and naval fleet is without any doubts.  The irony of the situation is that we can no longer afford to keep any of it.   The U.S. happens to be borrowing the money to pay for it's military from the very Country it threatens that holds the largest amount of it's serviceable debt in U.S. Treasuries?

Definition of insanity personified.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 01:38 | 4216687 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

I agree that we're being very foolish, but I also assume that other countries wish to have more influence in the world because that seems to be the natural state of things.  The influence or dominance that is being sought need not be through purely military means, though I do see that as a portion of the power equation.  There are also economic and political forms of influence.  So long as significant amounts of coercion are used to achieve that influence, I do not see anything as being sustainable. 

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 23:34 | 4216342 Son of Captain Nemo
Son of Captain Nemo's picture

Just how many millions of people has the U.S. murdered in it's wars of choice since 1951?  Forgot to put the numbers in my comment(s) below, but if we're talking just the Middle East since 2001 (which we know were based on a lie through a pretext) the conservative estimates are in the neighborhood of 1.5 to 2 million men, women and children and that doesn't include the 500,000 that died of disease and treatable virus from 1996 to 2000 with the U.S. military's blockade of Iraq or the 350 to 400 thousand soldiers that were killed in that other lie to corner more of the oil market in 1991.  Not that this would matter to you based on your observation and perception of how things work.

What makes your argument so very insulting is the notion that if we didn't do something first than somebody else without hesitation would fill that void and be as corrupt, self righteous and "evil" as we have demonstrated in the last 68 years?  You may call it manifest destiny and be comfortable with that but only if you're a sociopath or a psychopath.

All you really need to do is ask yourself where all of the concentration of force resides on the map in the last six decades and you have your answer. 

 

 

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 23:48 | 4216393 TyrannoSoros Wrecks
TyrannoSoros Wrecks's picture

Medicine was not part of the UN blockade of Iraq after Gulf War 1. Remember the "oil for medicine program" where we let Hussien (saddam not barry) sell oil in exchange for medical supplies? (Actually, it turns out that Hussien kept the money for himself and let his people die, but that's but another story) . But hey, let's not worry about the facts of history. Its much more dramatic to say we killed millions of little kids by taking their flintstones vitamins away.  As for your other numbers of millions dead in the GWOT, even the most liberal anti-war media puts the numbers about a factor 10 less that what you just made up.
As for the concentration of force map, US military policy since WW1 has been to fight the enemey overseas and not in CONUS. We have all those bases in Europe because America figured out that fighting WW3 in Europe is better for us than fighting it in Ohio.
I know actually learning about these things is harder than just saying "its all because of imperialist 'murican jew bankster scum!!!" but thanks to obongo you will soon have your wish of an America unable to protect her overseas interests or influence the New Great Powers of the World in any meaningful way. 

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 00:00 | 4216425 Son of Captain Nemo
Son of Captain Nemo's picture

TS Wrecks

I'm with you partner.  Crack a beer open and enjoy the show that you helped create!

My only true hope is that if and when it goes past the witching hour to Defcon 1 it's your house where that Bulava missile opens.

Can't happen soon enough for you and those like you!

 

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 11:41 | 4217613 Paveway IV
Paveway IV's picture

Wow. I didn't care to have Topol-M's pointed at me. Had to Google Bulava:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RSM-56_Bulava

...up to 10 hypersonic, individually guided, maneuverable warheads with a yield of 100–150 kt each? And Obama wanted to Tomahawk Syria? 

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 22:47 | 4216172 Son of Captain Nemo
Son of Captain Nemo's picture
"For the First Time In 50 Years, a Majority of Americans Think the U.S. Should “Mind Its Own Business”

Did this occur before our after the gassing of civilians in Syria this past summer when evidence proved both Saudi Arabia and U.S. involvement?

Perhaps it's the idea of a world war that will start if we engage Iran and it's "proxies"?

Or is it because of the ongoing destruction of Libya, Iraq and Afghanistan and our military base of operations complete with black sites for torture of "enemy non-combatants" otherwise known as POWs in the jargon of international conventions and codes of conduct that we continue to violate even though we are still signatories to them?

Maybe it's just the prohibitive expense of controlling everyone else outside or borders that's got us down?

Can this be deemed then as an official translation for an apology for all the harm it's done to the Countries just identifed?

And if true, does this also qualify as a declaration of "will" by the American people now to hold their lawmakers in Washington accountable for war crimes they've committed in our names and that an immediate withdrawal of all embassy and military personnel will be forthcoming?  Not that we've cared according to Pew for the last twelve years.

What a surprise? And not a pleasant one considering how long it took Pew to get those results from the most self-centered and narcissistic people and culture on the face of the planet!

Here's an idea. 

Why doesn't Washington Blog ask them to follow up with this official poll with these or related question(s) as a formal petition for a redress of grievances aganist the Union for acts of treason committed by each and every Congressman and Senator with signatures from each state voter?

When this happens I'll believe that survey was sincere.

 

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 22:23 | 4216128 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

"Mind it's own business"?!
They are minding their own business. Ranching is a business and we are their cattle.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 15:06 | 4218537 rustymason
rustymason's picture

" ... and we are their cattle."

I think the word they use for us is goyim.

 

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 22:09 | 4216106 doMiKY
doMiKY's picture

For the First Time In 50 Years, a Majority of Americans Think the U.S. Should “Mind Its Own Business”

...there is a tremendous amount of things the "Majority of Americans" think right now - 

If there is an editor, journalist, public official, or anyone at all, who wishes to run for any public office, that would care to stand up for what the "Majority of Americans" think please raise your f*ing hand...

Don't think the "Majority of Americans" means anything to anybody...

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 22:21 | 4216122 rationaldemocracy
rationaldemocracy's picture

The majority of Americans want a big screen TV and some pizza to go with their beer. That's what they have been getting for the last half a century. As long as socialism is seen as evil the average American will continue to be the average American.

 

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 01:19 | 4216668 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

News flash. USA has been socialistic for many years now. We have central State planning and wealth redistribution. Healthcare, 1/6 of our economy, is being taken over by the government. Is this not socialism? Buy a piece of land and try to build a home or business on it. You will soon find out your autonomy as a "free" American is something in name only. I don't know how to define this type of coercion as anything but evil.

Miffed;-)

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 12:14 | 4217712 IdiocracyIsAlre...
IdiocracyIsAlreadyHere's picture

Healthcare is not only now been taken over by government, it has been for years now thanks to it being diverted through the FIRE sector for rent extraction to the politically connected. Is that what you mean by wealth redistribution?  The relationship is just becoming even more symbiotic than before thanks to the Obombercare mandates

Does the fact that healthcare is 1/6 of the economy in the first place not concern you?  That is an even larger issue that is not even being addressed in all the discussions of the ACA clusterfuck.  Too many people missing the forest for the trees as always.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 14:10 | 4218280 Dan Conway
Dan Conway's picture

So true about the government already had control over healthcare.  This obamacare bill seems to be resetting the beneficiaries of the huge pot of money to obama's cronies while at the same time trying to grab control of what little they didn't already control. 

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 14:02 | 4218213 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

I am acutely aware of the problem and it concerns me greatly. I am part of a service industry. I, myself, produce nothing as my husband reminds me all the time. Yes, I realize I have value in the sense if a productive person were to become ill, I may be able through my skills return him to a productive life but I build and produce nothing that adds to the economy. That my industry has become 1/6 of our economy is, in my definition, a failing economy. Being aware is frustrating because I have no means to stop any of this. I am simply a lowly cog working in a clinical microbiology lab watching the world explode around me.

Miffed;-)

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 17:45 | 4219141 g speed
g speed's picture

M M ---get a divorce-- If my SO claimed I produced nothing while I slaved the day away in a lab--I'd bring a bat and produce something--alot of pain --thats what I'd produce. 

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 22:28 | 4220123 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

G speed, I'm sorry that sounded so harsh. Let me explain myself. I come from a debating family. When my husband came to dinner at our house he was shocked how much we debated issues over dinner. His family ate quietly in silence. When we got married we tried to keep the tradition alive by picking topics, often very controversial, to keep our minds sharp ( we also do the new York Times Crossward together). This can be VERY difficult for a married couple to do because of the risk of hurt feelings on either side. To be honest, I think he let me win a few just out of fear he wouldn't get sex. ;-)

There is an art to debating someone who is close to you and yes, there are topics we have decided are to hot for us to explore that may damage our marriage. I lost the argument on worker productivity because I do not produce a product. He would never say I had no value. Nor would the hundreds of people walking around today that even Drs have admitted to me are alive because of my work. However, it is a fact many companies have posted record profits directly from my husband's software. I am just acknowledging his victory in the strict definition. Please believe me, he respects and loves me dearly and would never say anything to intentionally hurt me.

Miffed;-)

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 18:10 | 4219208 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Yeah...right...From what I have read Miffed is HAPPILY MARRIED. She is a wonderful woman. Mister Miffed also frequents this page and comments.

 

How dare you attempt to interfere? The Bible is quite clear. "What God has joined together let no man put asunder."

 

I pity your Significant Other as they must deal with such an angry, mean and spiteful, self important narcissist as yourself.

 

Stop behaving like a BITCH!!! It is really REPULSIVE. Nobody who values themselves wants to be around a BITCH!!! So stop it.

 

 

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