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The NSA’s “Lone Wolf” Justification for Mass Spying Is B.S.

George Washington's picture




 

Bonus:

General Electric Knew Its Reactor Design Was Unsafe … So Why Isn’t GE Getting Any Heat for Fukushima?

The NSA’s main justification for Constitution-shredding mass surveillance on all Americans is 9/11.

In reality:

  • American presidents agree
  • The chairs of the 9/11 Commission say that the spying has gone way too far (and that the Director of National Intelligence should be prosecuted for lying about the spying program)
  • Top officials say that the claim that the government could only have stopped the attacks if it had been able to spy on Americans is wholly false

But we want to focus on another angle:  the unspoken assumption by the NSA that we need mass surveillance because “lone wolf” terrorists don’t leave as many red flags as governments, so the NSA has to spy on everyone to find the needle in the haystack.

But this is nonsense. The 9/11 hijackers were not lone wolves.

The former Chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee, outside adviser to the CIA, and Co-Chair of the congressional investigation into 9/11 – Bob Graham – says:

I have personally talked to the other cochair of the Congressional Joint Inquiry, a man who was a very distinguished congressman and, later, director of the CIA [Porter Goss], I have talked to the two chairs of the … 9/11 Commission, asking them, what do you think were the prospects of these 19 people being able to plan, practice, and execute the complicated plot that was 9/11 without any external support?

 

All three of them used almost the same word: “Implausible”. That it is implausible that that could have been the case.

 

Yet that has now become the conventional wisdom to the aggressive exclusion of other alternatives.

 

Indeed, it is pretty clear that 9/11 was state-sponsored terror … although people argue about which state or states were responsible (we personally believe that at least two allied governments were involved. Zero Hedge readers:  Which governments do YOU think were involved?).

Indeed, Graham – unlike with 9/11 Commissioner and former Senator Bob Kerrey – said in sworn declarations that the Saudi is linked to the 9/11 attacks.  They’re calling for either a “permanent 9/11 commission” or a new 9/11 investigation to get to the bottom of it.

An FBI report implicates the Saudi government.

And many other top U.S. counter-terrorism officials say that the government’s explanation of the 9/11 hijackers being “lone wolves” connected only to Al Qaeda is ridiculous. See this and this.

If this sounds implausible,  remember that Saudi Prince Bandar – head of Saudi intelligence – helped to arm the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan, and is now arming Al Qaeda in Syria. (Background).   Respected financial writer Ambrose Evans-Pritchard says that Prince Bandar admitted that Saudi Arabia carries out false flag terror.

Indeed, the Joint Congressional Inquiry into 9/11 found that the Saudi government supported the 9/11 attacks,  but the Bush administration classified the 28 pages of the report which discussed the Saudis.

Bipartisan Bill to Publicly Release Report on Saudi Involvement In 9/11

A bipartisan bill – introduced by  congressmen Walter B. Jones (Republican from North Carolina) and Stephen Lynch (Democrat from Massachusetts)  would declassify the 28 pages of the Joint Inquiry which implicate the Saudi government.

Some assume that passage of the bill is assured …

But both the Bush and Obama administrations have fought to keep Saudi involvement under wraps for more than 10 years.

Remember, the U.S. government allowed members of Bin Laden’s family – and other suspicious Saudis – hop on airplanes and leave the country right after 9/11 without even interviewing them, even though air traffic was grounded for everyone else.

Additionally, a Saudi FBI informant hosted and rented a room to Mihdhar and another 9/11 hijacker in 2000.

Investigators for the Congressional Joint Inquiry discovered that an FBI informant had hosted and even rented a room to two hijackers in 2000 and that, when the Inquiry sought to interview the informant, the FBI refused outright, and then hid him in an unknown location, and that a high-level FBI official stated these blocking maneuvers were undertaken under orders from the White House.

As the New York Times notes:

Senator Bob Graham, the Florida Democrat who is a former chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, accused the White House on Tuesday of covering up evidence ….The accusation stems from the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s refusal to allow investigators for a Congressional inquiry and the independent Sept. 11 commission to interview an informant, Abdussattar Shaikh, who had been the landlord in San Diego of two Sept. 11 hijackers.

 

In his book “Intelligence Matters,” Mr. Graham, the co-chairman of the Congressional inquiry with Representative Porter J. Goss, Republican of Florida, said an F.B.I. official wrote them in November 2002 and said “the administration would not sanction a staff interview with the source.” On Tuesday, Mr. Graham called the letter “a smoking gun” and said, “The reason for this cover-up goes right to the White House.”

The government obstructed the 9/11 Commission in every way possible.  During both the Joint Congressional Inquiry into 9/11 and the 9/11 Commission investigation, government “minders” intimidated witnesses and obstructed the investigation.

Obama has been no better.  Obama’s Department of Justice filed an amicus brief in the U.S. Supreme Court arguing that the lawsuit brought by the families of victims killed in the 9/11 attacks against Saudi Arabia should be thrown out of court (it was).

And Graham said that he’s lobbied Obama for years to release the 28 pages and to reopen the investigation, but Obama has refused.  The former Chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee and 9/11 investigator has even resorted to filing Freedom of Information requests to obtain information, but the Obama administration is still stonewalling:

Graham said that like the 28 pages in the 9/11 inquiry, the Sarasota case is being “covered up” by U.S. intelligence. Graham has been fighting to get the FBI to release the details of this investigation with Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) requests and litigation. But so far the bureau has stalled and stonewalled, he said.

Still Urgent Today

Ancient history, you say?

Graham notes:

Although it’s been more than a decade ago when this horrific event occurred, I think [the questions of who supported the attacks] have real consequences to U.S. actions today.

For example, the U.S. might not want to support – let alone launch joint military adventure alongside – a regime which supported the 9/11 hijackers.

As Graham told told PBS last year:

[Question]: Senator Graham, are there elements in this report, which are classified that Americans should know about but can’t?

 

SEN. BOB GRAHAM: Yes … I was surprised at the evidence that there were foreign governments involved in facilitating the activities of at least some of the terrorists in the United States.

 

I am stunned that we have not done a better job of pursuing that to determine if other terrorists received similar support and, even more important, if the infrastructure of a foreign government assisting terrorists still exists for the current generation of terrorists who are here planning the next plots.

 

To me that is an extremely significant issue and most of that information is classified, I think overly-classified. I believe the American people should know the extent of the challenge that we face in terms of foreign government involvement. That would motivate the government to take action.

 

[Question]: Are you suggesting that you are convinced that there was a state sponsor behind 9/11?

 

SEN. BOB GRAHAM: I think there is very compelling evidence that at least some of the terrorists were assisted not just in financing — although that was part of it — by a sovereign foreign government and that we have been derelict in our duty to track that down, make the further case, or find the evidence that would indicate that that is not true and we can look for other reasons why the terrorists were able to function so effectively in the United States.

 

[Question]: Do you think that will ever become public, which countries you’re talking about?

 

SEN. BOB GRAHAM: It will become public at some point when it’s turned over to the archives, but that’s 20 or 30 years from now. And, we need to have this information now because it’s relevant to the threat that the people of the United States are facing today.

And – most importantly – if the entire mass spying program is based on the “lone wolf” theory of 9/11, it is unnecessary and counterproductive.

Postscript:  Ironically, the U.S. government has in the past alleged state sponsorship of 9/11 when it suited its purposes.  Specifically, people may not remember now, but – at the time – the supposed Iraqi state sponsorship of 9/11 was at least as important a justification for the Iraq war as the alleged weapons of mass destruction.  This claim that Iraq is linked to 9/11 has since been debunked by the 9/11 Commission, top government officials, and even – long after they alleged such a link – Bush and Cheney themselves.  But 70% of the American public believed it at the time, and 85% of U.S. troops believed the U.S. mission in Iraq was “to retaliate for Saddam’s role in the 9-11 attacks.”

 

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Sat, 12/14/2013 - 19:52 | 4247174 Goldilocks
Goldilocks's picture

Proof of NWO from George Bush SR New World Order
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CWBTL33MpA (0:34)

George Bush Sr. New World Order Live Speech Sept 11 1991
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byxeOG_pZ1o (1:52)

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 11:43 | 4246335 blindman
blindman's picture

it is just natural that some people will never see the forest
for the trees or even the little twigs. these make up the forest
but to pick them apart doesn't give a definitive picture or
view of the forest. it is a problem of narrative, plausible
deniability, and story.
there is an intent and a goal for any operation undertaken by
people so organised. it comes as no surprise that these are not,
generally, publicly stated and are frequently private matters
often with great public consequences. sounds like power doing
it's thing with little minds doing their part in support for
a reward of some kind, either financial, emotional, mental
or even spiritual if the participants are so oriented.
.
so we have these events that are not spontaneous or random that
result in shifts of power or that leave impressions on the minds
of the masses. they are planned and executed, they happen, people
see them and absorb the impressions, those being direct experience
or through word of mouth or the media. the event.
.
then there is the context and the story or narrative which is
the important part for power. this comes out over time as do the
twigs of narrative by the witnesses and reporters that will reveal
the trees and the forest in good time. one dynamic along these lines
seems to be revealing and that is how the narrative and characters
involved in the initial description of events can have a corrupting
influence on the truthful unfolding of further narratives, evidence and
investigation. the technique of power threatening honest and good
key players in the process to lie under oath and otherwise and for
good reason or for the greater good but under the influence of power
and it's false initial narrative and concerns.
think lbj and l.h.oswald. one a vice president the other a russian defector
at the time of the "cold war"; both characters with deep historic intrigue
and private motivations but the public sees little beyond the titles or
given description such as "defector".
the greater treason in this case hinged on the cover up of the crime,
the negation of investigation, by implying to the participants that
if the investigation were to continue the soviets would be implicated
and wwIII would ensue. do you see the diabolical similarity to 9/11.
so the honest and good had their minds controlled and went to sleep
and lied for the greater good. this kind of thinking comes from the top,
a man with a pipe.
https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/showthread.php?5802-Lyndon-Johnson-...
.
you have to examine your top crime fighters in moments like this i say!
sherlock himself!
.
The Gary Null Show – JFK and the Secret Service – 11/20/13
http://prn.fm/gary-null-show-jfk-secret-service-112013/
.
"Vince Palamara became interested..."
is that plausible? is it parallel to the 9/11 dynamic regarding
the fake investigation?
.
minute 39 here vince palamara explains what needs
to be heard and understood if we would like to know.
http://archive.wbai.org/#ankor15
Friday December 13 1:00pm 1 hour
Public Affairs

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 01:32 | 4245935 brettd
brettd's picture

Couldn't stop Boston massacre.

Or Times Square.

Or Fort Dix.

Or Nadal Hussein.

Or Arkansas.

Or.....

Nevermind. 

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 00:14 | 4245813 dexter_morgan
dexter_morgan's picture

So hows all that spying doing for preventing school shootings?

Fri, 12/13/2013 - 19:36 | 4245121 moneybots
moneybots's picture

"Top officials say that the claim that the government could only have stopped the attacks if it had been able to spy on Americans is wholly false"

 

Most of the hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, so spying on Americans wouldn't have done any good.

 

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 01:18 | 4245915 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

9/11: A Conspiracy Theory

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuC_4mGTs98

Fri, 12/13/2013 - 16:43 | 4244446 F em all but 6
F em all but 6's picture

Is it time to short the petrodollar??

Fri, 12/13/2013 - 16:49 | 4244483 bozzy
bozzy's picture

Ride that koala F'em all - Ben has been quietly managin it down for you - EUR 2012 USD 1.21  EUR today USD 1.3733

Fri, 12/13/2013 - 16:40 | 4244442 drdolittle
drdolittle's picture

Now that that fellow tried to blow up kansas city airport, they have all the justification we need. I fly occassionally and am glad for all the TSA screening, taking off of stanky shoes, rude minorities eye rolling while you take off your belt etc. I just want to feel safe. /sarc

But that bs will placate some of the morons out there.

Fri, 12/13/2013 - 16:11 | 4244346 Lordflin
Lordflin's picture

We are all terrorists now...

Fri, 12/13/2013 - 15:49 | 4244279 q99x2
q99x2's picture

The NSA is being used by globalists and DC politicians to incite the rest of the world into attacking the United States of America.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 03:32 | 4246066 bunnyswanson
bunnyswanson's picture

I concur.  There is a sophisticated strategy in place to diminish the compassion when it comes to the American people and their predicament (loss of control of govt).  AIPAC has enough power that i believe NSA is run in a preapproved fashion. 

Also believe that trolls are being paid to spread throughout the internet statements such as this:  "The United States is the cause of the world's woes.  The Americans are the tourists (aka TERRORISTS).  The bankers are US citizens and therefore, the USA is to blame for the banking malfaesance."

I believe the people working at slandering Americans and their country are working in teams, agreeing with each other, and I believe that if this govt were legitimate, it would notice this and begin a PUBLIC RELATIONS CAMPAIGN bcause goddamn it, there will be aid needed.  Unless the govt does not want the aid from other countries to come.

This is war via propaganda and I believe this is leading up to a very painful ending which only insanity would allow.  It's reprehensible what the politicians are doing to teh very people who elected them.  Americans in total all classes will be ostracized when the final page of this book is written.  It's very difficult to see this unfold.  I believe many millions will die if someone does not do something soon.  Anyone who disagrees with me is part of it or a fool.

Fri, 12/13/2013 - 22:28 | 4245540 Trampy
Trampy's picture

The NSA is being used by globalists and DC politicians to incite the rest of the world into attacking the United States of America.

Nobody seems to be talking about the possibility that the Edward Snowden affair is a power struggle amongst the triumvirate of our spy agencies: CIA versus NSA, with DoD's agencies like DIA helping one or the other but certainly not both.  Mebbe CIA wanted to make NSA look bad and they teamed up with DIA to protect Snowden.  That could explain how he so easily slipped away to Hong Kong and then Moscow.  Living in airport hotels ain't cheap!  And both places are always just crawling with spies.  And why didn't Greenwald and Poitras face aiding and abetting charges, for at least disseminating the info if not for helping him hide out?  Too many strange goings to make it believable ... just like 9/11/2001.  Amazing?  Not really.

Of course everyone involved should be executed for high treason, but the lack of any real criminal investigation after 9/11/2001 shows clearly we no longer have any rule of law or a legitimate government, as evidenced by the serial-killer Peace-Price winning Manchurian Candidate who was born a US-UK dual-national and therefore not "natural born citizen."   Ted Cruz is definitely not natural-born either.  Does anyone know it Mitt Romney's father was a Mexican national and if that would make Mitt a dual-nat?  Does this new trend mean we can scratch out Hillary for 2016 because she's actually eligible for the post?

 

Fri, 12/13/2013 - 16:15 | 4244271 Trampy
Trampy's picture

Any constitutional law peeps here who know something about national security information (NSI) aka classified as it relates to separation of powers?  Fundamental premise of NSI is that disclosure of such would pose "harm" of varying degrees to the "national security interests" of the United States, whatever that means.

Congress establishes rules and authority for classified, but actually doing it is at the discretion of the president, supposedly bound by oath to uphold the law, whatever that means.

Exactly how could Congress declassify the 28 pages?

Seems to me that with veto-overriding majorities Congress could best go about it by enacting a law stating specifically that the 28 pages in question (defined somehow or other) are to be considered as Unlimited Distribution information, but what if the president ignored such a law?  There are plenty of federal laws on the books that haven't been enforced in decades.  Law enforcement is discretionary as is prosecutorial discretion.  POTUS can ignore laws he deems inconsistent with other laws, or because he considers them to be unconstitutional.

Most importantly, how could Congress force the president to declassify something that he wanted to keep classified?  (I don't think this has ever come up!)

Fri, 12/13/2013 - 16:17 | 4244356 Son of Captain Nemo
Son of Captain Nemo's picture

T.

Let's add to the "shit pile" that you just sighted.

President Obama in the dead of night on the last day of the year 2011 and without coverage across any of the major MSM declares article(s) 1021 and 1022 which essentially tells the American people that after 9/11 the battlefield is "ubiquitous" with no barrier or lines of demarcation and that he will now be in the "Year of our Lord" January 1, 2012 chief procurator and privy council above the highest courts in the land both within and without the United States of America as judge, jury and executioner in the interests of National Security. 

Where was the U.S. Congress in making the ceremony for "pomp and circumstance" in losing our most basic inalienable rights with a process of "ratification"?  Most important in those protections of the accused is to have the accuser provide a public trial by a jury of our peers -All gone!

Chris Hedges was the only individual who went after the Federal Government over the provisions of the NDAA with a lawsuit.  Why he didn't bring under the microscope and shed light through the amicus brief,  the 9/11 evidence withheld from the Commission Report proves unequivocally that the buildings were demolitioned through explosives with eyewitness account(s) revealed by subpoena only after 2006 should be enough to make the Patriot Acts and NDAA disappear.

Petitions aside.  Why no one in this Country is demanding a second investigation and to hold those in Washington D.C. responsible for treason after more than 12 years with all the forensic science and engineering experience that has exposed it is more criminal than the politicians and lawmakers who covered it up.

Fri, 12/13/2013 - 17:48 | 4244555 Trampy
Trampy's picture

President Obama in the dead of night on the last day of the year 2011 and without coverage across any of the major MSM declares article(s) 1021 and 1022 which essentially tells the American people that after 9/11 the battlefield is "ubiquitous" with no barrier or lines of demarcation and that he will now be in the "Year of our Lord" January 1, 2012 chief procurator and privy council above the highest courts in the land both within and without the United States of America as judge, jury and executioner in the interests of National Security. Where was the U.S. Congress in making the ceremony for "pomp and circumstance" in losing our most basic inalienable rights with a process of "ratification"?  Most important in those protections of the accused is to have the accuser provide a public trial by a jury of our peers -All gone!

Good intentions, bad execution.  Sections 1021 and 1022 of the NDAA of 2012 were passed by both houses of Congress.  Obama signed it into law before the end of 2011, as you said, with plenty of time for it to be very conspicuously ignored during the presidential election circus.  Obama didn't take that power, it was given to him.  Habeas corpus and 5th amendment due process do not apply to infantry shooting at enemy soldiers, which is what Obama was talking about when he said, "I'm very good at killing people."  Google "NDAA 1021 1022" for more info. 

Basically, the legal framework for presidential authority to be a serial killer rests on the premise that we're in a perpetual war of our own creation against enemies of our own creation.  Using the technology of weaponized drones, POTUS as commander in chief of our military in time of congressionally-declared war (per 2001 et seq. AUMFs) is doing what the Joint Chiefs of Staff used to do.  Drones allow for cutting out most of the "middlemen" between POTUS and the individual US Air Force pilot flying a drone mission under orders. 

It's a very effective "Nineteen Eighty-Four"-style of self-perpetuating system: the more we kill, the more we need to kill.  This is the Perpetual War for Perpetual Peace described so well by George Orwell and Harry Elmer Barnes.  Also, in an age of "thought-crime" it's also true that sometimes they don't need to do any actual killing, all they need to do is say they did it, adding new meaning to It's the thought that counts.

We need to be at war for the same reason that FDR got us into what the eminent (and very wrongly smeared) Harry Elmer Barnes called our Second Crusade, all the pyramid-building of the WPA, CCC, and TVA didn't do squat to get us out of the Great Depression of the 1930s.  We needed a war, and the bigger the better.   "It's the economy, stupid!" 

Fri, 12/13/2013 - 16:47 | 4244461 bozzy
bozzy's picture

Amen to that.

Fri, 12/13/2013 - 15:25 | 4244201 Son of Captain Nemo
Son of Captain Nemo's picture

Once the American people commit themselves to a genuine investigation for the wrongdoing and fraud of the "9/11 Commission Report" with heavy jail sentencing or worse for the treason that the majority in Congress committed through this failed state of emergency doctrine and the war crimes committed abroad in it's wake -it all goes away!

Until that time like the CBs that got bailed out 5 years ago without punishment for the crimes they committed, expect more of the same and worse.

Fri, 12/13/2013 - 16:37 | 4244429 bozzy
bozzy's picture

Dream on.

The "American people" have been quite content to watch 100 years of unbelievable dishonesty, barbarity and even treachery to US allies carried out in the name of America without managing to prevent the brain of Kennedy form being removed from the autopsy after he was shot, never to be found again, the evidence fabricated (The piece of an FMJ round that was taped in to sex up the x-rays). They have remained sillent and have even died in numbers without seeking the true reasons for which American military adventures were undertaken. So curious have been the American people that they remained in silent gullible acceptance as the lies and deception unravelled around the Bay of Pigs. Then the man who brought us Watergate took the dollar out of the gold standard. Nothing was said. More than that, the plan to "demonetise" the precious metals was adopted and put into action. Yet the good ol' American People were little interested in "other peoples' problems", and continue that moronic, wooden-headed suppport for their "leaders" rather than rock the boat.

With 700 military bases, and a first strike capability built from the deceptions following on the end of the cold war, America now thinks itself invulnerable militarily, and has done an excellent job of convincing the rest of the west that there is no choice but to follow the latest message from the puppet POTUS. Similarly, with so much US toilet paper out there, small wonder that the rest of the west is reluctant to risk bringing the rotting edifice down by, say, disinvesting their USD reserves, kicking out American missile bases, or standing up to the US bully boy who throws a tantrum every time the petrodollar status is threatened - cf the last Iran "agreement" - allowed to trade gold but NOT accept gold in settlement for oil.

No, it is time for America to wake up and smell the coffee, but the secret state organisations know this too, which is undoubtedly the reason for the massive purchase of 9mm HP - ammunition which has only one possible purpose: that of killing Americans in America.

 

 

Fri, 12/13/2013 - 21:40 | 4245456 Trampy
Trampy's picture

9mm HP - ammunition which has only one possible purpose: that of killing Americans in America.

most say .40 S&W HP, which is standard carry for FBI.

The "American people" have been quite content to watch 100 years of unbelievable dishonesty, barbarity and even treachery to US allies carried out in the name of America

you'd be interested in Cato Paper 12, about Historical Revisionism of WW1 vs WW2, per Harry Elmer Barnes, who dates the "change" to 1913, which just so happens to be when JP M. went to Jeckyll Island, a coincidence Barnes doesn't seem to have noticed.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 06:04 | 4246139 bozzy
bozzy's picture

Noted re ammo: issue is why USD 1.8 BN? that's quite a few rounds for EVERY SOUL in the USA.

I'll check the reference, for which thanks.

Also not sure whether we are saying the same thing, but 1913 - 2013 is no coincidence in my assertion of "100 years of unbelievable..." etc.

Fri, 12/13/2013 - 16:47 | 4244462 Son of Captain Nemo
Son of Captain Nemo's picture

+100

Afraid unfortunately that you are correct in your "history lesson" of the last half century.

What comes next is gonna hurt!

Fri, 12/13/2013 - 15:09 | 4244143 Son of Captain Nemo
Son of Captain Nemo's picture
General Electric Knew Its Reactor Design Was Unsafe … So Why Isn’t GE Getting Any Heat for Fukushima?

It was a declared act of war 37 years ago just by virtue of those Mark Is being built so close to the Pacific Ocean. 

Why China, Russia and North and South Korea didn't raise hell over is anybodys guess and that if anything should ever go wrong with said string of reactors the U.S. sponsor and it's Japanese protege would have hell to pay.  Let's not leave out the security company Israel's Magna B.S.P. that TEPCO outsourced to the Daiichi facility and the details of what happened in those unusual explosions that took place subsequent to the "9.0 earthquake".

It truly is remarkable that the Chinese and Russians in particular haven't played 3-11-2011 like a "Stradivarius" considering the catastrophic damage it has and will continue to cause to theirs as well as everyone elses interests that share that body of water.

Perhaps what we are witnessing with China's behavior in deploying it's latest Air-Defense zone is simply the culmination or "retaliation" for U.S. and Japanese inactions towards a genuine clean up effort? We will probably never know the extent or attempts made for shared involvement by China and Russia in assisting TEPCO and the Japanese government in finding solutions to this crisis getting much worse.

Fri, 12/13/2013 - 14:42 | 4244046 Joebloinvestor
Joebloinvestor's picture

They could use the technology and capability to nail almost every banker terrorist, but no.

It means nothing to collect all the data in the world if you can't decipher it or connect it all.

It just pisses everyone off, especially when they lie about it.

However, if you can use the info to embarrass or intimidate………

Fri, 12/13/2013 - 14:34 | 4244006 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

The Israeli/Saudi nexus has been revealed in the recent Syria context.  Of course there was a third government involved as well. . .

Fri, 12/13/2013 - 14:54 | 4243977 sosoome
sosoome's picture

This is the correct path to uncovering the truth about 911 imho. If the truth folks would put aside notions about controlled demolition, which cannot be proven, and join in to demand release of the 28 pages plus all the redacted FBI files, we may get somewhere.

But Porter Goss??? His long connections with shady "intelligence" figures makes him more likely a gate keeper than a truth seeker.

http://www.rense.com/general69/webb1b.htm

Fri, 12/13/2013 - 17:15 | 4244616 mvsjcl
mvsjcl's picture

Fucking asshole.

Fri, 12/13/2013 - 19:23 | 4245077 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Don't worry about his type. There are plenty of Engineers involved in Rocketry as a Sport. Those same Engineers are schooled in the same Physics which I have taught. They know what happened and some are mighty pissed off.

 

The BATF watches us like a hawk while we exercise our legal rights. But while they may have the idea that rules, laws, can be violated they also understand that there is no way of stopping it. We scare the shit out of them.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gd4kq6wfoig

 

He is a Government Troll and I want him to know it.

 

Here is a video on how to make an explosive with Lithium Batteries...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CH6GpXAXmx8

 

I am not suggesting that you break the law. But you can know how.

 

So who needs a gun when you can make an RPG?

Fri, 12/13/2013 - 15:47 | 4244272 Son of Captain Nemo
Son of Captain Nemo's picture

"If the truth folks would put aside notions about controlled demolition, which cannot be proven, and join in to demand release of the 28 pages plus all the redacted FBI files, we may get somewhere."...

Hope you are just ignorant and not a bought and paid for troll to the Federal Government.

From the folks that brought you AE/911 Truth.org, and International Center for 9/11 Studies -Ho Ho Ho....

Merry Xmas

http://www.luogocomune.net/site/modules/sections/index.php?op=viewarticle&artid=167

Fri, 12/13/2013 - 16:43 | 4244449 sosoome
sosoome's picture

Proof would be producing cut up structural members. Tons of remains show the buildings broke apart at their connections.

Proof would also include first responders who observed cut up members or items such as detonators, wires, or radio receivers.

Until you can overcome the mountain of structural evidence which shows the buildings broke apart at their connections, you have no proof.

 

Fri, 12/13/2013 - 17:59 | 4244796 Son of Captain Nemo
Son of Captain Nemo's picture

sosoome

Please get back to us when you've had a chance to explain the "cutter charge" like this one that were seen at the edges of core columns found at "Ground Zero".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNOM_U5UM6Q

Fri, 12/13/2013 - 21:29 | 4245435 Ocean22
Ocean22's picture

Great video

Fri, 12/13/2013 - 18:50 | 4244984 sosoome
sosoome's picture

I'm happy to look at anything any one presents as structural evidence. I will not, however, waste 15 minutes of my time watching something which starts off with a lie (fires were cooling) just to find what you are talking about. Please direct me to the exact time in the video you refer to.

Fri, 12/13/2013 - 19:02 | 4245016 Son of Captain Nemo
Son of Captain Nemo's picture

"I'm happy to look at anything any one presents as structural evidence. I will not, however, waste 15 minutes of my time watching something which starts off with a lie"...

Just for that I'll give you an "^ arrow" as you prove my point.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 01:28 | 4245930 sosoome
sosoome's picture

I tried to watch again to find out what you are talking about. There was so much misinformation I only made for a couple of minutes. If you are refering to the molten drip from the NW corner of the South Tower, it turns silver/gray on the way down. Steel would turn a darker color when it cools, but would not cool that fast due to it's density. Since that corner is where much of the plane ended up, and since the fires were very hot in that corner, and since it is a known fact aluminum melts in airplane crashes with fire, and without an assay of the material, it is most likely aluminum.

 

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 15:27 | 4246769 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

funny how you contantly argue the importance of not hauling away all the evidence so we can perform real analysis: ("it's most likely aluminum") Could be why there are criminal laws against it. It reminds me of something, oh yes, the video tapes surrounding the Pentagon

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 19:33 | 4247140 sosoome
sosoome's picture

The manner in which the buildings came apart can be ascertained visually, and there are plenty of videos and photos day of and on, and from the landfills where all the material was taken and inspected. In all that material, there is no sign of anything but that the buildings broke apart at their connections.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 20:48 | 4247254 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

and yes, photographs of the mess are the most valid scientific methods to settle these issues (in additon to avoiding all other evidence)

that's the only way we prove things in court, just pictures

we never have lab analysis

 

 

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 00:01 | 4247636 sosoome
sosoome's picture

A visual record and eyewitness testimony from first responders and inspectors that there was no evidence of cut up members is all that is necessary. Even among all that rudimentary evidence, there is no sign of artificial dismemberment. Unless you can produce clear evidence of cut structural members in the piles, the case is closed on CD.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 13:46 | 4248402 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

so a few pics trump chemical analysis, expert opinion in numerous fields, hundreds of witnesses, video footage, inexplicable heat piles, BBC fortune telling, criminal haul away, buidling owner admissions, etc etc etc.

Fri, 12/13/2013 - 17:12 | 4244603 mvsjcl
mvsjcl's picture

Fucking asshole.

Fri, 12/13/2013 - 16:28 | 4244393 moneybots
moneybots's picture

"Hope you are just ignorant and not a bought and paid for troll to the Federal Government."

 

He isn't ignorant, nor a troll.

 

Chandler claimed a horizonal plume of black smoke, just as WTC1 began to collapse, was evidence of a cutter charge.  That was false.  It was evidence that floor space was beginning to compress, forcing smokey air out a window on the west side of the Tower.  Chandler falsely claimed the plume was coming out the corner of the Tower, where there were no windows.  The plume was moving directly west and was coming out of a window on the west side of the Tower, which could not be seen from the north side camera.

 

The Towers collapsed under assault from an out of control fire in each building.

Fri, 12/13/2013 - 19:05 | 4245035 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

And you'd ask me to believe that the Mass of a Car colliding with a Semi absolutely disintegrates both the Car and the Semi?

 

Do you know anything about Physical Law? Physical Law trumps that of Government edict. Sorry pal.

 

When the Government collapses some may be marching the people actively involved in covering up crimes to the Guillotines. Following orders is not a Defense. (And your Government is heading toward collapse. Bring on the ACA, yeah!!! It will make it happen faster.)

 

Collapse baby, collapse...into its own footprint as it will serve them justice. There will be no place to hide. Some will torpedo those floating cities. Some will shoot down the Lear Jets attempting escape from the Regional Airports as Rockets are too easy to construct.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gd4kq6wfoig

 

They can be Guided and Warheaded. It is not that hard. In a collapse no law will stop it as it will be a Civil War. 

 

So tell me who needs a Gun?

Fri, 12/13/2013 - 19:45 | 4245151 moneybots
moneybots's picture

"And you'd ask me to believe that the Mass of a Car colliding with a Semi absolutely disintegrates both the Car and the Semi?

 

Do you know anything about Physical Law? Physical Law trumps that of Government edict. Sorry pal."

 

What gibberish are you saying?  No physical laws were violated.  The jetliners crashed into the Towers, starting out of control fires, which resulted in damage to the structural steel, which resulted in a natural collapse of the buildings.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 15:20 | 4246757 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

a "natural collapse" that had no connection to the steel temperature tolerance or any other building plane crash in history..that also started fires

and don't forget

no plane collided with tower 7, so just some debris and small isolated fires made that perfect collapse at gravity speed as well..unlike anything in history...and unlike other buildings around it that got debris...but didn't have dirty little secrets inside

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 19:48 | 4247164 sosoome
sosoome's picture

"no plane collided with tower 7"

No, but '100' ton slab of steel did. It sliced the south face top to bottom. I don't know the exact tonnage, but it was massive enough to take out the lateral connectors of the perimeter wall between two columns. Other debris undercut the SW part of the building. What do you think that did to the stability of a building which, unlike the surrounding buildings with box frames, depended upon the integrity of the perimeter wall to stand?

Question. Have the professional architects and engineers at AE analyzed this damage and what it would do to a 47 story large span building with a trapezoid foot print? If they haven't, it may be helpful to ask yourself why.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 20:36 | 4247232 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

"100 ton slab of steel"

Is this why all those other buildings before that fatefull day immediately collapsed into footprint when a plane hit them

Keep trying 

Fri, 12/13/2013 - 21:33 | 4245443 Ocean22
Ocean22's picture

Muahaaaaa. You actually believe that crap money bots ? Wake up.

Fri, 12/13/2013 - 20:04 | 4245215 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

I am not worried about you...at all.

 

I am just preparing...actively...for the revolution. You can lie all that you want. There will be consequences.

 

Enjoy the time that you have. LMAO.

Fri, 12/13/2013 - 19:01 | 4245018 harlanaladd
harlanaladd's picture

Well, to start, till 9/11, no steel skyscraper had ever collapsed from fire.  They're designed  to make that impossible. Jet fuel and office furniture don't burn anywhere near hot enough to melt steel.

If you're actually interested, and not a paid troll, see:

http://www.luogocomune.net/site/modules/sections/index.php?op=viewarticl...

(More than the usual ZH YouTube link) It's a five hour documentary, meticulously researched, including substantial time  addressing  arguments of debunkers who maintain the official story is true.  I can't see how anyone can watch it with an open mind and not be shaken.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!