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Let's talk disintermediation
My sense these days is that nobody except me and maybe a few others work on fridays in America, especially on a cold and icy day like today. It is a slow day. So...let's talk disintermediation.
dis·in·ter·me·di·a·tion
noun. reduction in the use of intermediaries between producers and consumers, for example by investing directly in the securities market rather than through a bank.
Here is a recent illustration of the benefit of traditional intermediation, such as investing through a bank. Some other traditional intermediaries are Catholic priests, corporate farms, and your local police. Together, these represent four areas that I find particularly interesting when it comes to thinking about disintermediation:
- Wealth/Capital (gold, bitchezzz!!!)
- Relationship with a higher power (God, bitchezzz!!!)
- Food (garden, bitchezzz!!!)
- Security (guns, bitchezzz!!!)
Over the years, I have found many ways to practice disintermediation in each of these areas. I have written articles and comments and posted photos on Zerohedge about some of these efforts. Today, I invite you to discuss with me our successes, failures, and hopes in the comments section below. I am thinking this will be similar to an open thread, except I would like us to keep to the topic of practicing disintermediation as much as possible.
Here are a few examples to get us started:
- A great way to safely store a little gold is by placing 1/10th ounce krugerrands in an L.L. Bean money belt, and hanging it in the closet with a bunch of other belts. Hiding in plain sight, and readily portable.
- I found it helpful to write a Gratitude List of the things I am most thankful for, and placing it in a place where I see it every day, not just in the church on Sundays. In my experience, Veggie Tales is right...a thankful heart is a happy heart.
- Most places in America still have a county agriculture extension office where one can get a list of the plants that grow well locally, when to plant them, when to harvest them, how to protect them from pests, and how to fertilize them, etc.
- For home security, it is hard to beat a 12 gauge shotgun, loaded with 00 buck, and a weapon mounted light. However, familiarity with a shotgun gained by target shooting or hunting is highly unlikely to provide one with the ability to effectively use the weapon for defensive purposes, and When you are Suddenly Surrounded by Violence and Killing It's Too Late to Train, so take a Tactical Shotgun Course. It is a load of fun, and you will be suprised to learn that getting the hit on big-slow badguys, when it counts, is often much more difficult than hitting little-fast birdies.
Health and education are two other areas that come to mind where disintermediation can serve us well.
This may be a disaster, but let's see how it goes...
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satoshi Again with unfounded assertions. Stop it. You don't know what you are talking about.
So, rsnoble, just remember what Ike said about plans. Or it might have been Lee.
Once the shooting starts, plans don't mean squat.
http://ideas.dreamscapemultimedia.com/articles/120-why-strategic-plannin...
Well above and below you are all confusing winning a battle with losing the war.
Sure as shit plan's don't mean shit in 'battle', but overall you have to have a war-plan.
I don't see a war plan here on ZH, I don't see a fucking GOAL, I just see bitching and moaning.
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Hitler during his war, developed his "NEW WORLD ORDER" that was his plan, individual battles he left to his generals.
In this coming war, I don't even see what you folks want? Kill and fight, just put Rand Paul as dictator? I mean what is the fucking goal?
satoshi, unfortunately you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. It's not personal. But you are really really off base.
unfortunately Satori, as on many occasions, is right. Read any number of Zero Hedge threads objectively and it jumps right at you. As with anywhere else regarding anything else there is a party line that runs fairly consistently through the threads.
Self suffiency and by extension self defense, is necessary knowledge but to what end? No man is an island and their is no such thing as total independence. Tribes from the beginning of man have demonstrated the need to work together and have also refined war.
Protect my family? Eventually your sons and daughters will have to venture into the wilderness to seek a mate.
So the question becomes, when it all comes down, then what? What will replace what was? As there is enough debate on this site alone to make what will be contentious as hell.
What is the goal?
If it is noble, e.g. a constitutional government that respects the individual rights of "ALL" with compassion enough to look out for your fellow man then imagine were the energy spent in prepping put into making what is wrong now, right!
It is easier to prepare to hide than to prepare to confront. Thus our current situation.
One of examples was relationship with "higher power"/God. That is key. Get rid of the intermediaries in that respect. Work on that which is within and do not be afraid to fight for each other.
>>>What is the goal? <<<
I think the goal is to survive long enough to rebuild something worth having.
Idleness, lack of oversight and magic thinking have turned a proud Republic into a gutter democracy - ruled by a malicious plutocracy, who have stolen much of the accumulated wealth available. Poor policy and self-serving politics have drained vitality and initiative from the most inventive people on earth - for now.
But neither the FSA (Free Shit Army) nor the plutocracy can BUILD - take ore, wood and metals and make a useful machine; farm, mine and fish for their own suppers; or create a small business, grow it for years, and pass it along to their heirs. They have lost the skills to build, and only know taking.
It will not take them a very long time to starve out. The FSA will mostly kill each other, although if you're in the crossfire, you could get burned.
But after the Crunch, once the embers cool and the weak and stupid pass on, there will still be (I hope!) those left who can build - and there will be a lot of rebuilding to do.
We will need to rebuild our farms, roads, industrial capacity, small businesses and professional practices.
We will need to rebuild our governments - and make them better. The original Constitution was OK - the next one needs a right to privacy in communication and finances, more death penalties for mischievous public "servants", and an absolute guarantee that land can be OWNED by the people, free of all taxes, for the life of the one who purchased it.
There is much more that will need to be rebuilt, once the Crunch passes - but only those who survive the Crunch will be there to do it.
And THAT'S what all the fighting will be about. I won't kill anyone who doesn't threaten me or mine - but woe to those who do!
And now back to the Kardashians ....
Encroaching darkness,
" Idleness, lack of oversight and magic thinking have turned a proud Republic into a gutter democracy - ruled by a malicious plutocracy, who have stolen much of the accumulated wealth available. Poor policy and self-serving politics have drained vitality and initiative from the most inventive people on earth - for now."
How can we be the ones to rebuild when "WE" are the ones that have allowed the above to happen and continue?
"The original Constitution was OK - the next one needs a right to privacy in communication and finances,"
THe original constitution covers that. Perversions of semantics and interpretation have perverted it. Not to mention the governments downright violation of the document with the permission of "We the people." We have not been "ever vigilant" would be an understatement.
"an absolute guarantee that land can be OWNED by the people, free of all taxes, for the life of the one who purchased it."
You pay taxes to support things like infrastructure, defense of a nation that allows you the freedom to own the land, etc. That taxation w/o representation, due to our own neglect, has been able to rear it's ugly head and devour that which it was susposed to defend is again, OUR FAULT!
So again I ask who will be the ones to rebuild. Those who would line up the FSA and execute them with little understanding of how and why the FSA exists?
EDIT: To many people are waiting for after the crunch. They have been waiting since at least my teens which is a long time ago. It is all talk and fantasy because the reality is what we have today is the result of the talkers talking yet doing nothing.
"Everyone's got a plan, until they get punched in the face."
--Mike Tyson
funny thing happened on the walk down Paper st.
I realized getting punched in the face is the plan.
By the 3rd day on the porch, all will be right in the world.
I've had similar experiences in the east, not in the Midwest.
You may find that the first time the power goes out or they get stuck in the mud, there is an attitude adjustment.
I have several guns including an AR15. One of my favs is my 12ga semi auto with special mods haha better watch out.
I love listening to people "if things get bad ill grow a garden". Ok, have fun eating fucking dirt waiting on the shit.
Excellent article and discussion starter Hedgeless. Emphasis on the self in self sufficiency just can't be stressed enough. One step at a time... saving heirloom seeds for the next year of planting, propagating perennials, sourcing our food and herbs locally, etc... the list goes on and on. Just as quick as we can master one thing, we realize, oh, we can do that too. It's quite empowering. Hats off to you and Mrs. Hedgeless for all your efforts.
I wish people would stop encouraging others to buy shotguns for security. Shotguns suck. Look at any military unit and what they carry. If they carry a shotgun at all, it's for one single purpose - door breaching. Shotguns (pumps) are easy to short stroke- jam. Also, ammo capacity sucks. If that's all you have, it's better than a sharp stick, but far from optimal. Do as the professionals do and use a 5.56 AR carbine.
Hedgeless horseman does hit the point on training, but it's a point not emphasized enough! You need a lot of training in running a gun and tactics in order to have any hope of defending your neighborhood with your friends.
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For...
Shotguns suck. -- SgtShaftoe
They certainly do, esp. for the person on the recieving end...
Advocating someone use a shotgun for home defense against multiple assailants, is potentially dangerous. Do what you like, but I'd suggest you go ask somebody with combat field experience. Go look at the spread of a shotgun pattern running buckshot, it doesn't spread out appreciably until you are beyond effective range. It's also stopped by simple soft armor.
Your comment elucidates the fact that you have no idea WTF you're talking about and are full of shit. The point of buckshot isn't to spray and pray. You're ultimately responsible for every single pellet fired from the gun. The ideal pattern will be tight and concise in order to concentrate the most firepower in a focused area.
My 870 can hold 6+1 rounds of 00 buck. That's anywhere from 48-54 .32 cal projectiles that can be fired in about 4-5 seconds. NOTHING a civilian (non dealer) can own can unleash such firepower so quickly.
I happen to have a little experience with both, and it completely depends on the situation.
If it is simply home defense against a common criminal who may have heard you have some valuables, I'll take my old Browning 12ga automatic.
Just the "Boom" factor will cause almost ANY ordinary criminals to haul ass as fast as they can. Who the hell is going to stay around to see what else you got, and God knows unless you are in the boonies with no neighbors nearby, somebody will surely call the cops. You don't have to be a good shot, either - just point in the general direction & pull the trigger, and operating that baby is simple as can be.
Now if you are talking about going to war, OK, yes, give me an AR or AK....really would prefer an AK if I had to take care of all the parts & maintenance myself over time.
Just hope like hell it never comes to that. It's lonely enough with a squad of well trained, experienced troops when TSHTF, but just you &maybe a few neighborhood vigilantes against a hoard, and you have a real problem.....probably best solved with a good escape plan.
Shotguns are good to use in the common criminal situations, not so good in the SHTF playing field where at least 10 thirty round mags are a minimum. Six rounds against 50 starving Free Shit Army operatives is not going to have a good outcome for the owner of that shotgun.
Advocating any defense against multiple assailants is potentially dangerous. As is the alternative.
I'm sorry but advocating an AR15/M16 based weapon for relatively untrained folks is far more dangerous, imo. I guess my first question is: Have you ever been in a self-defense situation? I have, unfortunately. And a 12 gauge pump was readily at hand.
Above you quibble with the term "stopping power". I don't. One round from the 12 gauge immediately resolved the situation in my favor. My assailant went down hard and offered no further threat. One 5.56 round would not have had the same effect on a charging 350+ pound bear.
Moreover, if you're worried about buckshot penetrating body armor, simply switch to slugs (or sabotted slugs). Will it get through? I've seen 1-1/4 oz slugs penetrate engine blocks, but even if it does not, the all momentum of the slug will still enter the body. And a 1 oz slug packs a damn good bit of energy -- it will take your assailant off his feet and give you time to follow up or deal with other threats.
Now, for the kicker. I've no need to ask another vet about their field experience, as I've seen M16s jam at the most inopportune moments. Under the conditions you describe, that could be a death sentence. On the other hand, I grew up hunting ducks and geese and, in the many years since, I've never had my pumps jam. Can't say that about some of the autos, however.
So, while I respect your opinion, and your right to have an opinion different than my own, my experience informs my opinion regarding the usefulness, or not, of various weapons under certain circumstances. One size does not fit all, but for the relatively untrained and inexperienced (and most Americans, including many concealed-carry folks, fall into this catagory) a good quality pump action, short-barrelled shotgun seems to make the most sense. But, again, that's simply my opinion.
One additional note, if you're going to make appeals to authority to bolster your argument, as in consult your local 18-B, you might want to consider to whom you're speaking.
Then we respectfully agree to disagree. Fine with me.
My opinion has been arrived at through training, consensus of 18Bs I've worked with, other joint forces guys, and personal experience.
Besides, if you're 18B and have kept yourself in decent shape, you should be able to hold off a squad sized element with nothing but a slingshot. ;-)
I'm just glad we have most of those guys on our side.
That's great for those military guys. They practice and then practice some more. I will keep my scatter guns if for nothing else than the sound effects and lots of little bitty projectiles that may find the target rather than 1 little bitty projectile that has to be aimed, breathed and squeezed. Works for me, don't have recommendations for others.
Scatter guns don't disqualify you from the necessity for training and practice. They in fact, require more. Hit the range and get dirty, really dirty, muddy. A square range is for pussies. Otherwise you're just cheating yourself.
You couldn't be more wrong for self-defense inside of a building.
A 12 gauge has greater stopping power, will bring the fight to an end far faster, and is far less likely to accidentally kill your neighbor's little girl sleeping in her bed across the street.
I don't need no stinkin' guns.
I'm a hippie prepper, atheist, with a very large veggie garden situated in a well-to-do suburban neighborhood in a southern town of 130,000.
Should the SHTF, I plan on putting a sign out front: not too big, not too small.
Hungry people use back door.
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No Exceptions.
(I have this situation all figured out. I have no fear. I can live happily on a higher level of consciousness.)
And I think that is a good attitude.
Strong pacifist minded here too and alwyas helping others if I can but if need be I will do whatever needs to be done.
If you don't have kids or a wife, you're probably fine. Otherwise... not a good plan.
00 buck is about 53.4 grains per pellet running at a velocity of 1325fps X 9 pellets. An AR runs standard 55 grain projectiles at around 2100fps, single projectile. Urban ammo can be gotten in 45 grain projectiles for additional penetration protection. From experience, an AR is far safer than a shotgun in buildings, especially when running lighter projectiles. The LE and FBI ballistics studies back this up as well. Otherwise also reference the "box-o-truth" on the interwebs for in-depth study and pictures of actual ammo tests from different platforms.
Stopping power is an urban myth, usually bandied about by LE people. It's about putting lots of holes in the bad guy's vitals and doing critical organ damage to end the fight. A fighting rifle platform is also far faster to maneuver in a MOUT environment (urban) because it's short. Reloads are incredibly slow, and prone to creating a misfeed. There's a reason the military and special operations don't use shotguns any longer in the field except for door breaching. They really and truly suck compared to what else is available.
Don't believe me? Go find a local 18-B (special forces) guy and ask him. He'll tell you the same damn thing.
Shaftoe
Ok, let me get this straight. You are saying that the reason the 223 is "far safer in buildings" is because the shit gets stopped by drywall? You want to shoot bullets that get stopped by drywall? That's your fucking plan?
no, planning on walls stop your rounds is stupid. A rifle makes one little hole that doesn't deflect very much. Shotguns start spreading out after their rounds go through a wall and will injure or kill someone on the other side. Look at the ballistics of buckshot after going through 2 sheets of drywall. It explodes.
Wait, so you are pro 223 or pro shotgun??
55 grain 5.56 round out of a 20" barrel is more like 3200 fps. It has considerably more penetrating power than 00 buck.
As to shotgun vs. rifle, it all comes down to choosing the proper tool for the job at hand, and knowing how to use it effectively.
When it comes to the job at hand I am going for the nearest available weapon. I have been, sadly enough, in numerous violent encounters, from growing up in a rough neighborhood, to working as a bouncer in a cowboy nightclub while at college... Have had bullets passing within an inch of my head, etc... I have used a .45 sig, a .357 S&W revolver, and even a mop handle...
I now live on a farm, have numerous weapons stashed, have used my AR 15 when the coyotes or wolves come visiting, and still prefer my sig as I have fired thousands of rounds through it, and used it for several defensive handgun courses...
But my experience in conflict has lead me to realize that the weapon of choice is the one you can reach... And the best weapon of all is the mind. Whatever you do in a conflict situation, never stop thinking...
Funny someone should have mentioned bees. They have all gone missing up here, and I intend to put in some hives in the spring, as my fruit trees are not getting pollenated... Massive hornet problem up here for which the Mossberg is of little use, but females come out of hibernation in the spring and can be trapped and killed before they start a new colony. Hoping it is the hornets that are killing the bees, for if it is instead chemicals then I have a more serious problem... Perhaps the Mossberg may be of use after all.
Agree with whatever is available is your weapon of choice.
Bumble-Bee-Burg for me. The last few years have seen increasing bumbles (they live under a wooden deck between the house and the shed) but mostly about the same for regular (mostly wild) bees in my garden. When the raspberry bushes are in bloom it is a hummer! I am lucky enough to live in an orchard region with many fruit tree and grape orchards. Bees still doing fine here.
that's what I get trying to go from memory. Yes, you're right 3200.
Nothing beats a shotie:
http://www.wnd.com/wnd_video/for-self-defense-22-beats-45/
RE: video. BINGO! Unless your a sniper.
Well, I am not in the military and I am not in the field, thank God.
If you want to learn to fly a plane, it's best to have an experienced instructor and take his advice. Same principle. These guys have been there done that, and lived to tell about it. It's prudent to listen to their hard lessons of what works best and what doesn't.
I like your comment about front door screws, that's linked in your shotgun comment. Something fun to do to add an additional layer of protection is to add a couple extra hinges in your door at random locations. Because if someone comes to breach your door they're going to be scratching their head as to why the fucker didn't fall in after the first 3 shots at the hinges - again some wisdom from the guys who have been there done that.
As a pilot I have to add that 90% of the flight instructors out there are just assholes trying to get hours for their commercial rating, to get a real job.
Same in gun training, maybe 5% of the trainers might be real.
GUN fighting is not about hitting paper targets at a range, its about ton's of fucking shit, only years in special forces school could you really grasp all the reflex instinctual shit you need to know,
The good news is the average donut eating COP is a fair sitting duck.
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For gun training you might find some NRA guy that can shoot on a bench rest, that don't mean fucking shit, even as trained sniper you learn that sniping is 99% observation, and that can only be learned in live field training.
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I wish I could mention books, or movies but they don't exist. It's like martial arts, or boxing you don't learn it from a book, you learn it from living it, 24/7 for years.
There's FM 7-8 but that requires a helluva lot of prerequisites to truly understand. I concur, you need someone who knows his shit.
But finding a real guy that can teach this shit, and of course the real guys are terrified, if they teach this shit to an asshole and he goes and does 'stupid' and then say's
"JOE TAUGHT ME THIS"
The reality, I'm not sure anymore, long ago Jeff Cooper had a damn good school in Arizona, but he died, and his school got bought by some rich guy and pussified ,but jeff was a real US Marine.
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It's a tough problem, real Special-Force guys general know that if they teach thier shit to a civilian, and he goes out and does the DUMB and talk and get's caught, they're fucked.
Back in the day the Navy Seals used to kill other team members that passed their manuals on to Paladin for Print.
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Yep, FM's are great, for theory and late night reading, but they are no replacement for unconscious action.
The WAY you fight is the way you TRAIN, and if your not training to KILL people, then you will die.
It's not that simple.
Because of the politics of war, there are 'rules' in place (what a joke!) that ban certain items in warfare.
The military are bound by these 'rules' and so have a list of things they must do without. They train according to this.
One item that is banned on the battlefield is hollow points of which US government has been buying a lot, recently. Might be a clue there as to where they are intended to be used.
With homemade door-jamb armor, it would take five shots to breach my main entry way door. Anyone trying to breach it could count on a shitload of return fire before getting to number 4.
The un-infringed, "military and special operations," in the field get to have full-auto capability on their rifles, whereas we well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free
State, are only allowed semi-automatic. That makes a big difference when everyone is packed together in a little room, armed, and with ill intentions for one another.
Select fire is over-rated. Most SF guys I've seen or worked with in training never go beyond semi-auto. Economy of ammunition is far more important. Many of the guys started carrying 11 or more mags after the whole Mogadishu fiasco, but that's a lot of weight and it needs to last. Even in the most heated moments of a break contact drill most guys will run semi.
An AR can provide very fast aimed fire, it can even sound like full auto when highly trained people are running their guns, but it's semi-auto fire.
Individual people are most likely to need to use a break contact drill in any situation they may face, and I usually will run through a standard cap 30 rd mag in 15-20 seconds doing a break contact, possibly less in semi-auto. It's really hard to throw that volume of fire with anything other than a fighting rifle.
Most people cannot accurately aim and fire an AR, because they have no training in such. Without proper training, an AR is about as useful as a baseball bat. Many people can pick up a shotgun, point it at a bad guy, and pull the trigger for some spray and pray.
As far as I'm concerned, this is settled.
I am Chumbawamba.
They have a point, years ago I used to be a professional knife fighting trainer for special op's
Used to train at gun camps for ranger and seals and they would have family week, I remember one time a guy that brought his 12 year old daughter out and she had never shot before, they gave her a STYER-AUG, and its pretty much like a AR, but with internal optics that can be added with trijicon on an AR.
This little girl went on to WIN the overall championship for the entire week, in all classes combat, sniper, indoor, outsoor, and clay pidgeon.
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Of course its never the GUN, its the MAN.
Any fucking gun in the hands of the right man, can waste anybody in any occasion, but a properly outfitted AR, and proper training and you can make a little girl best navy-seals :)
That said, where in the fuck can you find 'proper' commerical training, you cannot, you have know the real people, and train.
Back before schools became pussified, each Thanksgiving the school would host a turkey shoot. Red neck sporting clays (coke bottles thrown across the pasture) were the targets and pie plates at 100 yards for the .22 competition. It used to tickle the shit out of me to watch the rich boys with high dollar gear get their asses handed to them by a 5th grade girl with an old beat up single shot .410.
Thank god. someone with real experience! Ahmen brother!
I love you Chumba, but you're absolutely wrong. An AR is far easier to run reliably than a shotgun. I've seen 14-16 year old girls run through a tactical carbine class without any jams. Conversely I've seen seasoned and experienced shooters doublefeed their shottys continuously in shotgun training. They are far more difficult to run, and far more prone to jamming. Then good luck when the 8 shot extended magazine goes dry and you expend a full minute trying to get the gun back in the fight. Any experienced professional would laugh or slap you for bringing a shotgun into a fight with anyone with an iota of experience.
Also, a shotgun has massive recoil, not so easy for inexperienced people to manage, let alone to present follow up shots. A fighting rifle has essentially zero recoil.