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Are Millions of Business People At Risk of Dying In Collapsing Buildings?

George Washington's picture




 

This is one in a series of safety-related public service announcements.

Death Traps?

Millions of people work in or visit high-rise buildings … assuming the buildings were more or less safe.

But it turns out that there is a severe, lethal risk of sudden collapse in even the best-made skyscrapers in America, Britain, Germany, Japan and other nations worldwide.

A New Understanding

Before 9/11, no modern steel-frame high-rise building had ever collapsed due to fire.

9/11 radically changed our understanding of architecture and engineering …

Specifically, 3 steel-frame buildings collapsed on that day. That includes one that was never hit by a plane, and had only small, isolated office fires prior to its collapse.

This was unexpected, as much hotter, longer-lasting fires have never before brought down a modern steel-frame office building.  For example, the 2005 Madrid skyscraper fire “reached 800 degrees Celsius (1,472 F), said Javier Sanz, head of Madrid firefighter”  and lasted some 20 hours without collapsing.

In other words, officials who write building codes, architects and structural engineers had never before worried about small office fires causing office buildings from collapsing.

Appendix A of the Federal Emergency Management Agency’s World Trade Center Building Performance Study notes:

In the case of the fire at One Meridian Plaza, the fire burned uncontrolled for the first 11 hours and lasted 19 hours. Contents from nine floors were completely consumed in the fire. In addition to these experiences in fire incidents, as a result of the Broadgate fire, British Steel and the Building Research Establishment performed a series of six experiments at Cordington in the mid-1990s to investigate the behavior of steel frame buildings. These experiments were conducted in a simulated, eight-story building. Secondary steel beams were not protected. Despite the temperature of the steel beam reaching 800-900 °C (1,500-1,700 °F) in three tests (well above the traditionally assumed critical temperature of 600 °C [1,100 °F]), no collapse was observed in any of the six experiments.

Underwriters Laboratories tested the steel components at the Twin Towers and found they could withstand fires for hours without failure:

“NIST [the government agency - National Institute of Standards and Technology, a branch of the Department of Commerce - responsible for investigating the collapse of the 3 buildings on 9/11] contracted with Underwriters Laboratories, Inc. to conduct tests to obtain information on the fire endurance of trusses like those in the WTC towers…. All four test specimens sustained the maximum design load for approximately 2 hours without collapsing… The Investigation Team was cautious about using these results directly in the formulation of collapse hypotheses. In addition to the scaling issues raised by the test results, the fires in the towers on September 11, and the resulting exposure of the floor systems, were substantially different from the conditions in the test furnaces. Nonetheless, the [empirical test] results established that this type of assembly was capable of sustaining a large gravity load, without collapsing, for a substantial period of time relative to the duration of the fires in any given location on September 11.” (NIST, 2005, p. 140).

Other fire tests have also failed to cause failures at high temperatures.

So the collapse of World Trade Center Building 7 on 9/11 (not hit by a plane) was a surprise … and should be a huge concern to the millions of people who work in office buildings worldwide.

To get to the bottom of this issue, Washington’s Blog reached out to a former manager at Underwriters Laboratories – Kevin Ryan – to seek reassurance that the danger was small for the millions of financial services industry workers, business men, lawyers, web executives, and others who work in office buildings:

[Question]  Wasn’t the steel used in the Twin Towers and Building 7 of inferior quality?  So as long as builders use better-quality steel, can’t we be assured of safety?

[Kevin Ryan]   The steel used to build WTC Building 7 was the standard grade for high-rise construction–still used to this day–called ASTM A36 grade steel. It was not inferior in any way from the steel used to make many of the other high-rise buildings in America.

For the Twin Towers, fourteen different grades of steel were used in the construction, including A36, which has a nominal strength of 36 ksi.  The other grades used were higher strength steels like 100 ksi WEL-TEN steel which was manufactured in Japan and shipped to the States. The steel used in the Towers was actually far superior to typical structural steel.

The official government reports on the destruction of the WTC buildings did not find any problem with the quality of the materials or construction methods used. And although those reports did make some recommendations for changes to building codes, those changes have not been incorporated in municipal codes or adopted by the building construction community.

[Question]   You write in Foreign Policy Journal:

“And if people actually understood and believed the official account of what happened at the WTC they would not enter tall buildings because in doing so they would be putting their lives at risk.”

What do you mean?

[Ryan]  What I mean is that high-rise buildings are designed and constructed to withstand fires that are much worse than what we know existed in WTC Building 7. My former company, Underwriters Laboratories (UL), plays a big part in that process. We know that UL did the fire resistance testing that was behind the selection of the steel components for WTC7 because that fact is in the NIST WTC7 report. Therefore the steel columns and floor assemblies should have withstood 2 to 3 hours of intense fire in a testing furnace, as required by the NYC code.  But on 9/11, the fire lasted only 20 minutes in any given area, a fact that NIST admits, and the entire structure was destroyed due to an inexplicable failure to resist fire.

Moreover, NIST abandoned its previous hypotheses that suggested the destruction of WTC7 might have resulted from diesel fuel fires, or damage from falling debris, or the design of the building. In the end, NIST said that it was only the effects of the fire fed by office furnishings, on fully-fireproofed steel components, that caused the total destruction of this 47-story building. And since no actions have been taken to retrofit any existing high-rise buildings, we must assume that what happened to WTC7, according to the official account, could happen to any tall building that experiences a typical office fire.

No Change (?!)

Given that 9/11 totally changed our understanding of how dangerous small office fires could be, we couldn’t believe Ryan’s claim that “changes have not been incorporated in municipal codes or adopted by the building construction community.”

So Washington’s Blog contacted Richard Gage,  a practicing architect for more than two decades, who has worked on most types of building construction, including one project which used  around 1,200 tons of steel framing:

[Question] Have high-rise architects and engineers changed how they build skyscrapers, to prevent collapses after 9/11?

And have they changed how they build skyscrapers to prevent office fires from knocking down steel buildings?

[Richard Gage] No – they haven’t made any structural changes.

No structural changes?!

Either building code writers, architects and engineers are cavalierly ignoring this catastrophic new understanding of the extreme danger of small office fires, or the investigation into the collapse of World Trade Center building 7 on 9/11 was flawed.

No wonder New York residents have launched a High Rise Safety Initiative to try to protect the safety of those who work or visit office buildings.

Postscript:  Until this issue is resolved through a complete revision of building codes and architectural and engineering practices, we recommend that everyone stay out of office buildings. Because if even small office fires can cause the whole building to collapse, it’s just not worth the risk to go inside.

 

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Sat, 02/15/2014 - 11:04 | 4439267 TNTARG
TNTARG's picture

HOPE you show this to highschool students, pals. It may improve their chances to understand reality.

Sun, 02/16/2014 - 17:31 | 4438479 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

Yeah, I agree Johnny, that that was one of the best little videos to raise doubts that the official story was way too absurd to possibly believe!

P.S.

A lot of other people watched that video, BUT, it seemed to me that YouTube ended up screwing with the ratings or popularity measures of that video ??? I have found that some of my original links to that video no longer worked. However, enough other people reposted it, that it was possible to find alternative versions.

I would guess that at least tens of millions, if not more than a hundred million people, have watched that video, since so many other people have recommended watching it. However, it appears to generally be the case that Google, or their YouTube, screws with the popularity ratings of videos which present views that are so controversial ???

Google appears to have become another classic example of corporations with extremely hypocritical slogans! In our increasingly Bizarro Mirror World, a company that has a slogan "do no evil" is probably actually doing the maximum evil possible. For instance, Google appears to be becoming one of the players possibly leading the way towards Robotic Militarized Police becoming the nightmare science fiction that becomes fact.

The paradox of "success" within social pyramid systems are that that depends upon always more social polarization, and destruction of the natural world. The more "successful" any individual or organization becomes, then the more that they are able to turn natural resources into garbage and pollutions faster, and the more they are able to promote the systems which will continue to enable them to do that. Thus, the deeper paradox of militarism remains that each increment of short-term success from backing up lies with violence overall drives society as a whole to become collectively more insane. The "success" of 9/11 as an inside job, false flag attack, has driven a huge quantum leap in the aggregate level of collective social insanity, since more and more people were driven into worse and worse conditions of cognitive dissonance!

Anyone who watched the video that you linked, Johnny, with an open mind, necessarily MUST come to the conclusion that the official story about what happened on 9/11/2001 was RIDICULOUSLY ABSURD. However, since almost everyone with the most money and political power continues to promote that story, and almost no politicians would be able to successfully challenge that, without the mass media attempting to discredit them, there are collective POWERS behind the Huge Lies about 9/11 which are still driving those preposterous absurdities, which violate the commons sense laws of physics, to still nevertheless be the basis for most of both the domestic and foreign policies of NATO nations.

The runaway degree to which the world we live in IS dominated by the best professional liars, and immaculate hypocrites, who thereby become the most wealthy and powerful people, within their social pyramid systems, IS driving civilization as a whole to behave with more and more collectively evil deliberate ignorance towards the longer-term consequences from doing that. However, so far, more "Truth" about anything has made no apparent difference to the runaway established systems of legalized lies, backed by legalized violence.

The paradox that success in warfare depended upon deceits has created the most dangerous situation for the possible longer term future survival of the human species. The history of warfare has enabled the economic system to end up having fundamentally fraudulent accounting, which drives every economic decision we make to be based upon the same kind of evil deliberate ignorance as exemplified by belief in the official story about 9/11.

Fri, 02/14/2014 - 21:08 | 4438336 NoWayJose
NoWayJose's picture

I would rather be IN an office building than to be a former JP Morgan trader standing on TOP of an office building.

Fri, 02/14/2014 - 18:24 | 4437823 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

Good article, which pushes the HOT BUTTONS, because the CONCLUSION that the collapses of the buildings happened in ways totally different than the official story says, THEN requires one to attempt to construct a different story, which matches the facts better. That better story is that the events on 9/11/2001 were an inside job, false flag attack, and therefore, all of the millions of murders that American and NATO forces engaged in since 9/11 were all based on Huge Lies.

THE MORE YOU KNOW, THE WORSE IT GETS, since 9/11 was also the excuse to prepare to impose democidal martial law within NATO countries, whenever their social and economic conditions deteriorate enough to require that response. In my view, it is ridiculous to try to analyze economic events in the world, unless one includes the recognition that 9/11 was an inside job, false flag attack, as the most spectacular symbol of how the realities of the combined money/murders systems actually work together, as debt slavery, backed by wars based on deceits. As the debt slavery systems necessarily generates numbers which become debt insanities, we are headed towards death insanities, as the consequences of that overall system running amok!

As a thought experiment, assume that one had nothing but the eye witness reports, and the photographic evidence, regarding what happened in Hiroshima and Nagasaki ... What story would one be able to put together to try to explain that evidence ??? Suppose that one knew nothing about atomic energy, or atomic bombs, but then Hiroshima and Nagasaki happened, and left evidence about how that happened ... One would be forced to conclude that something like atomic energy, and atomic bombs, existed, in order to explain that evidence.

When I was originally investigating 9/11, I initially did not believe in the theories put forward by Dr. Judy Wood, because those required believing that there was some previously publicly unknown energy technology which played some real role in causing the World Trade Center Buildings 1 and 2, South Tower, and North Tower, to suddenly collapse.

I am not saying there was no nanothermite, or other conventional means of causing controlled demolitions. However, during the last year or so, I have become more open to consider that the controlled demolitions happened in such extraordinary ways that some unknown energy technology appears to have played a real part in that process. In my current opinion, after one takes enough time to look at the evidence of what happened on 9/11/2001, it DOES take presuming some previously unknown energy technology, in order to account for the available evidence. I am NOT saying that disproves any other theories about how the controlled demolitions were done. Those could also have played a role. However, I now believe that things are WAY WORSE, because 9/11 indicates that there are some previously unknown weapons, which have been kept secret, like atomic bombs were kept secret, until after they had already been developed and deployed.

That the world is dominated by gangs of criminally insane murderers, who made and maintain the money system, from which they benefit, by operating those systems of legalized lies, backed by legalized violence, and that those people have access to weapons of mass destruction, including ones which are probably still being kept secret, or not being publicly admitted to exist, demonstrates one of the many ways that THE MORE YOU KNOW, THE WORSE IT GETS.

There is NO doubt in my mind that 9/11 was an inside job, false flag attack, in which what actually happened was very different than the official story about what was supposed to have happened.

However, as some comments here on Zero Web demonstrate, there are lots of people who have a deep vested interest in continuing to promote that false story, and who generally are therefore associating themselves with the biggest gangs of organized killers on the planet, who are advancing their combined money/murder systems. Those who resist the conclusion that 9/11 was an inside job, false flag attack, are either emotionally incapable of facing the facts, or they are paid trolls working for the dominate organized crime gangs, that have captured control over the government of the USA, as well as most other NATO countries.

I am not sure of how the controlled demolitions were done. Since there were never any proper investigations allowed to happen, in the ways that those should have happened, we may never be able to know for sure. However, more and more, only relatively recently in the time line of my own personal discovery, I have been believing that the theories of Judy Wood should be seriously considered!

http://www.drjudywood.com

I REPEAT:

THE ONLY CONSISTENT THEME OF 9/11

IS THAT THE MORE ONE KNOWS,

THE WORSE THAT GETS!

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 12:14 | 4439410 moneybots
moneybots's picture

"When I was originally investigating 9/11, I initially did not believe in the theories put forward by Dr. Judy Wood, because those required believing that there was some previously publicly unknown energy technology which played some real role in causing the World Trade Center Buildings 1 and 2, South Tower, and North Tower, to suddenly collapse.

I am not saying there was no nanothermite, or other conventional means of causing controlled demolitions. However, during the last year or so, I have become more open to consider that the controlled demolitions happened in such extraordinary ways that some unknown energy technology appears to have played a real part in that process."

 

The fires caused the Towers to collapse.  There wasn't any unknown technology used or any thermite.

The fire caused the columns to bow in on the east wall of 2 World Trade at about the 81st floor.

There was a huge volume of black smoke rising from 1 World Trade when it collapsed. 

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 16:24 | 4440151 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

Hah, moneybots, you could only influence people who never looked at the material to believe what you are saying. Anyone who looks at the archival videos about the WTC Towers being constructed as solid steel frame buildings, and then looks at the videos of those suddenly collapsing MUST come to the obvious common sense conclusion that the ONLY way that could happen is through some sort of controlled demolition. Since no proper investigations were ever done, we may never be able to know for sure how that happened. However, it is absurd physics to assert that STEEL FRAME buildings would suddenly collapse in the way that they did from ordinary fires.

P.S.

"Black smoke" indicates lower temperatures, and incomplete combustion, which are way too low temperatures to cause the steel frames to act like they suddenly disappears, and stopped supporting themselves. Nothing but some kind of CONTROLLED DEMOLITION can explain what happened. Therefore, 9/11 was an inside job, false flag attack.

9/11 was, so far, the most spectacular symbol of the general pattern of social facts that the whole world is controlled by huge lies, backed up with lots of violence, because that is what works best, in the short-term, as the history of warfare demonstrated. The problem is that in the longer term, the whole civilization becomes increasingly insane, and therefore, madly self-destructive, since it is being controlled by belief in Huge Lies.

I know no way to prevent the world from continuing to actually be controlled by lies backed up with violence. However, as much as possible, I refuse to believe in those lies, nor agree with them, despite the fact that there are plenty of professional killers whose job it is to back those lies up with their abilities to be violent. The whole system has gone too far into being suicidally insane for me to believe that agreeing with its huge lies is a personally good enough strategy.

P.P.S.

I continue to wonder about entities such as this "moneybot" ??? I did not start off thinking that 9/11 was an inside job, false flag attack. Instead, I watched several dozen videos, and read hundreds of articles that gradually persuaded me to believe what I now believe. The only way that I can understand the "moneybot" posts is that they are based on evil deliberate ignorance. ... I could only then speculate about why "moneybot" posts continue to repeat the same stupid comments ???

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 17:24 | 4440299 moneybots
moneybots's picture

"Nothing but some kind of CONTROLLED DEMOLITION can explain what happened."

 

Not true.

 

"I could only then speculate about why "moneybot" posts continue to repeat the same stupid comments ???"

 

I haven't posted any stupid comments.

 

"The only way that I can understand the "moneybot" posts is that they are based on evil deliberate ignorance."

 

That is quite an imagination you have.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 22:07 | 4441030 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

moneybots, I am not imagining anything, other than what I read in your comments, which steadfastly continue to maintain that solid steel frame buildings CAN suddenly collapse straight down to the ground, at near free fall speed, due to some ordinary fires, burning at ordinary temperatures inside of those buildings. THOSE ARE EXTREMELY STUPID COMMENTS!

I repeat that your comments are so extremely stupid in the way that they deliberately ignore the common sense laws of physics that the most probable interpretation is that you are a troll, who is paid to promote the huge lies about 9/11.

I may well understand that, since there are millions and millions of people who make their living promoting lies, and backing those up with violence. I may well have also ended up doing something like that too ... except that the development of weapons of mass destruction has made all of that previously successful history of warfare based on deceits become too suicidal for the human species as a whole. Therefore, I tend to uselessly promote what I think is the patently obvious 9/11 Truth, against a collective gang of trillionaire mass murderers, who are advancing their wealth and power by staging one false flag attack after another. I regret that I can imagine the consequences of that becoming so totally tragic for everyone, that I must attempt to resist that trend, despite the blatantly obvious fact that that barely works, since the group of trillionaire mass murderers are so above my league that I am nothing more than like an insignificant bacterium to them.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 23:35 | 4441257 moneybots
moneybots's picture

"moneybots, I am not imagining anything, other than what I read in your comments, which steadfastly continue to maintain that solid steel frame buildings CAN suddenly collapse straight down to the ground, at near free fall speed, due to some ordinary fires, burning at ordinary temperatures inside of those buildings. THOSE ARE EXTREMELY STUPID COMMENTS!"

 

Yes, you are imagining.  Fire retardant is sprayed on structual steel because ordinary office fires can cause the steel to lose strenght and failAs you can see in the videos, flames were floor to ceiling and beyond, pouring out the windows, just from office combustibles.  The fire produced great amounts of heat. 

 

"I repeat that your comments are so extremely stupid in the way that they deliberately ignore the common sense laws of physics that the most probable interpretation is that you are a troll, who is paid to promote the huge lies about 9/11."

 

I am not ignoring any common sense laws of physics.  Those promoting a controlled demolition are.  Your interpretation of me as a troll is your imagination working overtime. 

Sun, 02/16/2014 - 17:30 | 4442844 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

moneybots, if you are not a paid troll, promoting the Huge Lies in the official story about 9/11, then you are as thick as a brick, and the way you "think" too screwed up for me to comprehend.

I can understand that many people have never looked at the videos of how the WTC towers were constructed, and therefore, never began to think about how absurd it was to believe that those could "pancake" down, to a ridiculously small pile of rubble, that makes no possible physical sense, without a very large amount of energy being introduced into the buildings to make that happen! If you reply again, then I guess I will give you the last word, because it has already become a silly waste of time to try to debate this issue with you, or with any of the others who are promoting the patent absurdities regarding the official story about happened on 9/11/2001. You say that you have looked at the videos of how the WTC buildings were constructed, and how they collapsed, but then continue to assert it was physically possible for ordinary fires to explain how those buildings collapsed. THAT IS AS INSANE AS BELIEVING BARBEQUE GRILLS ROUTINELY MELT AND COLLAPSE. It grossly unscientific to ignore the basic laws of physics, which had to be miraculously suspended in order to make the official story about the events on 9/11/2001 be possible.

Of course, the tremendous and growing paradox regarding the "scientific enterprise" is that, so far, most scientists are not remotely close to being scientific about the real nature of governments as the biggest forms of organized crime, controlled by the best organized gangs of criminals, because mostly scientist are making their living INSIDE of those systems!

SINCE THE REAL WORLD IS OVERWHELMINGLY DOMINATED BY SYSTEMS OF LIES, BACKED BY VIOLENCE, AND HAS BEEN FOR A VERY LONG TIME, "9/11 TRUTH" STRUGGLES TO SURVIVE INSIDE OF THE CONTEXT THAT SUCCESS IN WARFARE WAS ALWAYS BASED ON DECEITS.

9/11 WAS THE MOST SPECTACULAR SYMBOL OF THAT SOCIAL FACT, SO FAR. ANYONE WHO ACTUALLY LOOKS AT THE AVAILABLE MATERIAL AND DOES NOT COME TO THAT CONCLUSION HAS PERFECTED THEIR WILLFUL BLINDNESS.

WARFARE IS THE OLDEST AND BEST DEVELOPED SOCIAL SCIENCE, WHICH IS THE SCIENCE OF BACKING UP DECEITS WITH DESTRUCTION, WHICH IS WHAT 9/11 WAS.

The great tragedy of the human species as a whole, is that the short-term successes of controlling civilization with lies backed by violence is resulting in destroying our longer-term future. After the development of weapons of mass destruction, to continue to start genocidal wars based on deceits, which is primarily what 9/11 was about, threatens to go out of control in very serious ways ... The people who really did 9/11 are criminally insane. To the degree that you defend and support their Huge Lies, you too, in my opinion, moneybots, are criminally insane. The degree to which your views deliberately ignore the laws of physics is so fanatically and deliberately stupid that there are no good ways to discuss that matter with you any further in the future.

Sun, 02/16/2014 - 20:14 | 4443306 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

RM:

Now you know why I have little of no time for 9/11MORONs other than to insult them.

Quinn's original webmaster, ('Raging Debate' @ ZH, Jason Rines) who gave him a well run and free website but ended up booting his sorry ass to the curb.

 

moneybots = Jim Quinn

...........................................................................................

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/guest-post-911-%E2%80%93-fourth-turning-perspective#comment-577815  

09/13/2010

 

Jason Rines just posted this.

"Smokey and Jim are the same people, yes. I mapped both the I.P.'s back to his office at Wharton.

As for having fun, well... his new blog is a place where. if you want to be abused and argue with someone with only academic experience, then go for it.

As for me, I moved on.

3,000 of my countrymen are dead, they were not enemy combatants. Radical Islam was used as usual as the convenient manipulated fools they are. They like blood money and Islam gives these individuals the convenient excuse for murder-for-hire. No different than the 1880's in Russia and the 1930's in Germany. 

I want as close to the truth as we can all get and we are only partially there.

I cannot waste time on the wannabe dictators while my dead countrymen have not received justice.

Justice will be served when I feel the rest of my countrymen are safe and that also is a long ways away. We will probably be old men by the time we feel we know enough truth to say we concluded our own investigation and many of the perpetrators dead of old age, war or both.

So I have little time for Quinn."

http://ragingdebate.com/politics/remembering-911/c41097#c41097

...................................................................................

So there it is from someone who knows.

Jim Quinn is a FRAUD and a LIAR.

 I have posted on ZH and on... www.thestinkingshitpile.com

Jim Quinn is Smokey.

Hide your face in shame Quinn.

You will always have 'sheep' who will still respect you in the morning.

.....................................................................................

Jim Quinn during one of his frequent Bi-Polar Spells last night posting to himself on

www.thesmolderingpile.com

Lifted directly...no edits;

................................................................................

  1. Smokey says:

    LLPOH—–There is another blog, Zero Hedge. I think they have about 25k members. Zero Hedge posts guest articles from hundreds of sources on his site. Quinn is one of his favorite guest authors because people love to read and comment on Quinn’s articles. They generate much traffic for ZH. There is an article over there now “9/11—-A Fourth Turning Perspective” of Quinn’s from this site that has over 200 comments so far this weekend. THAT’S where many of the 9/11 loonies came from this weekend. They read the article over there and came over here. I haven’t seen SSS all weekend, although Stuck was on our side this weekend against the loonies. I’m getting ready to crash for tonight, but I’ll be back to start some shit with someone tomorrow. Later.

    Like or Dislike: 0  0

    12th September 2010 at 11:28 pm

    ..........................................................................................

Quinn... a guy who posts to himself on his own website.

And he knows the Truth about 9/11 ?!

Pity the fool!

Sun, 02/16/2014 - 18:27 | 4443016 moneybots
moneybots's picture

"moneybots, if you are not a paid troll, promoting the Huge Lies in the official story about 9/11, then you are as thick as a brick, and the way you "think" too screwed up for me to comprehend."

 

Your imagination is working overtime again.  The huge lie is that the WTC buildings collapsed due to controlled demolition.  I can see for myself that the buildings were on fire.  I don't need the government to tell me that.

 

"You say that you have looked at the videos of how the WTC buildings were constructed, and how they collapsed, but then continue to assert it was physically possible for ordinary fires to explain how those buildings collapsed. THAT IS AS INSANE AS BELIEVING BARBEQUE GRILLS ROUTINELY MELT AND COLLAPSE."

The ordinary fires were floor to ceiling and beyond, pouring out through the windows.  Theexterior columns were bowed in on one set of floors along most or all of the east wall of 2 World trade.  There is nothing insane about fire being the cause of the collapse of the buildings, as fire was the common thread in all three buildings that collapsed.

People can walk on burning charcoal briquetttes, barefoot.  A grill has nothing to do the heat from 12 foot flames due to combustibles found in office buildings.

 

"It grossly unscientific to ignore the basic laws of physics, which had to be miraculouslysuspended in order to make the official story about the events on 9/11/2001 be possible."

The laws of physics were not suspended.  The fires caused a catastrophic failure in each of the buildings which collapsed.  the buildings did not collapse due to controlled demolition, regardless whether or not NIST got all the details correct.

 

"The degree to which your views deliberately ignore the laws of physics is so fanatically and deliberately stupid that there are no good ways to discuss that matter with you any further in the future."

 

I am not ignoring any laws of physics.  Fire weakens structual steel.  The Towers were damaged by jetiners plowiing through them.  At least one truss was seen sagging inside the windows in 2 World Trade.  The sagging progressed.  Columns bowed in along the east wall, where fire had burned, out of control.  Fire was causing the damge.  Why do you refuse to see that?

 

 

 

Sun, 02/16/2014 - 20:36 | 4443396 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

A cheap iron grate, in a fireplace loaded with heavy logs, the bottom of which have burned down to coals, could cause that grate to sag. However, an entire steel frame building, to SUDDENLY collapse straight down, at near free fall speed, is physically impossible unless immense amounts of energy were introduced to wipe those supports out. No minor amount of sagging of a few structural members of those buildings could have possibly caused them to burst into pulverized dust, and fall straight down, leaving hardly anything of those original central steel support columns still standing.

IF the "pancaking" theory was plausible (which is never was). then there would have been a huge pile of rubble (which there was NOT). Furthermore, since the central steel support columns were even more massively thicker and stronger nearer the bottom of the building, then they should have still been there, somewhat sticking out of the rubble. However, nothing about those collapses, both during and after, makes any sense, EXCEPT AS THE RESULT OF CONTROLLED DEMOLITION, WHICH MEANS 9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB, FALSE FLAG ATTACK.

Detailed examination of the mass media reports demonstrates that some of them were immediately able to promote the false story, which must have be prepared before hand. The televising of the original "pancake" theory appears to me to now be part of setting the set of huge lies to trick the public with. As far as I can tell, moneybots, you appear to still be tricked by those lies. (I find that less plausible to believe, while instead I find it more plausible that you are being paid to troll, to continue to support the huge lies about what happened on 9/11/2001.)

The background is that the events on 9/11 have driven the government of the USA to become more obviously treasonous than ever before, while the mass media were accessories to that treason. The USA has already entered into a state of irreconcilable social polarization, of which the 9/11 situation is the most extreme symbol. The government of the USA has become almost 99% based on legalized lies, backed by legalized violence. Its debt slavery numbers are already actually debt insanity numbers. There is nothing which is mathematically possible to fix those structural problems within the financial system anymore. Hence, the USA is inevitably headed towards some series of psychotic breakdowns, because it is almost totally controlled by deceits and frauds, regarding everything important, because its fundamental system is debt slavery, backed by wars based on deceits, the success of both have driven them to become runaway social insanities, which automatically get worse, faster, while they attempt to keep themselves going, by kicking their cans down the road ...

There is no way that could be fixed without more radical truth. As long as the Huge Lies and absurdities in the official story about 9/11 continue to be promoted by the government, and the mass media, etc., then those Lies are going to continue to drive the USA to behave in more and more insane ways. Actually, my real opinion is that therefore we can already write off the future. The USA is necessarily headed towards having its economic system collapse into chaos, resulting in attempts to impose democidal martial law, because the financial crises were also inside jobs, because the debt slavery systems can never do anything about the problems of too much debt but create more debts, on that treadmill.

9/11 was a big quantum leap in that process, but otherwise still part of the overall tragedy of human history, that civilizations ended up being controlled by the people who were the best at being dishonest, and backing that up with violence. For thousands of years, that worked well enough. However, we are getting nearer the points where that will catastrophically fail to work anymore. No matter how much the Huge Lies about 9/11 are backed up with violence, those Lies will never become true. The only thing that those Lies can do is drive society as a whole to become more insane. 9/11 is symbolic of the generally escalating social polarization. More and more, those who still believe the official story, and those who do not, have irreconcilable views. Both sides are starting to regard the other as insane.

After having spent thousands of hours looking at the available information about what happened on 9/11/2001, I am not going to change my conclusions that is was an inside job, false flag attack, and that the official story about how the buildings collapsed was totally absurd. I WISH that I was not forced to come to that conclusion, because that is far worse than the official story! However, believing the official story about how WTC 1, 2 & 7 collapsed must be based on DELIBERATELY IGNORING THE LAWS OF NATURE, and SHORT-CIRCUITING THE AVAILABLE INFORMATION, which is therefore the way that I regard what you are doing (whatever may be your motivations for doing so.)

Mon, 02/17/2014 - 00:13 | 4444108 MEAN BUSINESS
MEAN BUSINESS's picture

Radical, I find it difficult to understand how after over 25 years of debate and scientific research, some people still feel driven to behave as 'Moneybots' does regarding 9/11, on the climate change issue. I am beginning to think that climate change caught the bullies off guard because the scientists were just nerds with pocket protectors. Because of the international scope of the research and the democratization of the internet, I think the bullies lost control. I think they realized in the early to mid 90's that mass extinction is a very real possibility. Fearing the unknown, 9/11 was commissioned and the NSA shifted into high gear to reaffirm their own sense of control. I think the 'Moneybots' and 'gmak' types do it to comfort themselves that "things aren't too bad, they have things under control, so don't question 9/11 or sound alarm bells about climate change ". Perhaps no need to pay people to troll the internet defending the official 9/11 story and denying that anything serious is going on with the climate!

Copenhagen was neutered. The road to Paris 2015 will be an interesting one. There will be no need for such a conference if they 'dustify' whole cities. Paris could be miraculous too, maybe the bullies will go insane and all commit suicide or be neutralized by their own children!!! lol

Ahh, the wonderful world of ZH. This account will self destruct in 22 months lol

Mon, 02/17/2014 - 22:49 | 4446640 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

Indeed, MEAN BUSINESS, it is almost impossible these days to estimate how deep the rabbit hole of deceit goes! (Into a time warp of "25 years?")

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1x8BVyodH0Y

~Geoengineering And The Collapse Of Earth 2014

It can be argued the covert climate change programs
are greater in their overall effects than overt causes?

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 00:43 | 4451470 MEAN BUSINESS
MEAN BUSINESS's picture

Unfortunately, Radical Marijuana, this website doesn't seem to have a function that notifies one that someone has replied to one's comment so you may not get back to this. In my limited blogging experience, one blog had a pop-up function whenever I logged in to say someone had replied and a click took me directly to the reply made in the thread. It was not something I had to set up. If I weren't so busy trying to keep up with all the articles and comments I would do my research! lol

The "25 years" was in reference to  the documentary by James Burke called After The Warming which I happened across channel surfing during the "CNN War" almost 25 years ago. I was familiar with JB having watched his 'The Day The Universe Changed' programs many times so it caught my attention. I found the history compelling and was somewhat shocked to realize that it had been produced before the CNN war.

I taped it on VHS and shared it with friends. One person turned on me and hit me with the Libertarian "don't tread on me" stick. I wasn't at all politically minded in those days so I was unprepared to respond. Interestingly, I was questioned as to who was paying for such an elaborate production. That question never crossed my mind. Anyway, 15 years later I had a good laugh when An Inconvenient Truth came out because the message was basically the same as JB had delivered. Again, in my limited blogging experience, not once, among the endless AL Gore/David Suzuki derisions have I ever seen someone discuss After The Warming. But now a common belief is that AGW is a scam to install a tax and make Al and Dr Dave rich. Hmmmm.

Yet that question I was asked 25 years ago remains with me while other questions like 9/11, The Fed, etc have piled on. The internet seems to have become a place where, like statistics, any theory can be found on any subject and it's become a popularity contest. In some links I provided previously, one thing I found to be quite fundamental was the concept of the greater meaning of free speech:

Officially implemented, as a federal law recognized by all states, citizens would only have to gather a group with a common understanding based in facts, of information reasonably shown as vital, also showing how the presentation/perspective of such is currently lacking from the public information, satisfying the requsites public must have to invoe the law in the creation of an understanding of the vital information from which can come; forgiveness, tolerance, acceptance, respect, trust, friendship and love, protecting life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Citizens with issues developed in this way, and a relatively small petition qualifying, would have a right to see compulsive state and federal control over network broadcasting licensure in order to compel adequate production funding and national broadcasting to effect the education of the public on given subjects.

 

As this pertains to the issue of AGW we have to ask ourselves if after 25 years of scientific research from around the world, is this important information alerting humanity to a clear and present danger or is it a bankster scam?

As I was alluding to in the above comment, I am open to thinking they're good, but not this good. A "dustifying" WMD? Maybe. HAARP? maybe. Chemtrails? stretching it but sure ok maybe. 25 years of science during massive fossil fuel exploitation all a hoax to install a tax and limit peoples freedom??? ya, maybe.

But what if that turns out not to be the case? And while we bicker about it we passed the tipping point? 25 years ago  what I saw was humanity working together to protect life and liberty. We have powerful tools and viable solutions and as we grow in size we bring more brains to the table, not just mouths to feed. But alas, I would guess Paris will be essentially a repeat of Copenhagen and the Anthropocene Age will go to it's watery grave. As you say the required miracles are unfathomable, but 22 months is forever dwelling in a moment, and there is one thing that has potential to change the game before Paris: Arctic Ice disappearance. If something of that nature were to occur there would still be people on the blogs claiming it's "natural" and any action would be an infringement of their liberty, but at least we would all have one piece of information that rises above theory. The Arctic ice dissappeared? WTF!

I suggest people read Gwynne Dyer's  'Climate Wars', Peter Ward's "Under A Green Sky', Alanna Mitchell's bookSea SickJames Powell's 2084: An Oral History Of The Great Warming, 

And watch James Burke, he can be quite humurous : )

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 17:18 | 4440291 moneybots
moneybots's picture

""Black smoke" indicates lower temperatures, and incomplete combustion"

 

It also indicated there was still major fire occurring in the building.  When 1 World Trade began to collapse, there was a huge whoosh of flame on the north side of the Tower.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 21:57 | 4441000 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

As usual, moneybots, you ignore the radio recording of firefighters that said they almost had the fires under control. Those firefighters were caught totally unprepared for the sudden collapse of those buildings, because that never happened before. If there was no controlled demolition set to happen, then the fire fighters would have successful done their usual jobs. However, they were mass murdered because there was a controlled demolition, that they had no way to know was going to happen. Those fire fighters could not have anticipated that extremely evil people were engaged in mass murder, as an inside job, false flag attack, on 9/11. That is WHY a few hundred fire fighters died on that day, as victims of the real terrorists. They have been dishonoured by the mass media and others that promoted the false flag aspects of the official story about 9/11, as you are doing now. The fire fighters never had a chance fighting the fires in those buildings, because the only way that they could have done so is IF they knew the truth, that the whole thing was a staged event, to advance the interests of the ruling classes.

P.S.

Some surviving fire fighters officially complained about the deliberate failure to properly investigate how the events on 9/11 really happened. As this basic article by George Washington stated, IF the official story was not a pack of lies, then building codes should have been drastically changed. However, those codes were not changed, because doing so would only amplify the absurdities, since no sane building codes could be written that were based on deliberately ignoring the structural property of steel, which is what one has to do in order to believe the official story about 9/11.

Sun, 02/16/2014 - 19:07 | 4443070 moneybots
moneybots's picture

"As usual, moneybots, you ignore the radio recording of firefighters that said they almost had the fires under control."

 

You are ignoring that the radio call came from the 78th floor, which was below the main body of fire.  If you look at  the exterior east wall of 2 World Trade, you can see that 78 did not exhibit any signs of major fire.  Look up to the next few floors.  That is where the main fire was and NYFD never got up there. 

 

"Those firefighters were caught totally unprepared for the sudden collapse of those buildings, because that never happened before. If there was no controlled demolition set to happen, then the fire fighters would have successful done their usual jobs"

 

There was no controlled demolition.  Debris started to fall from the floor right above the columns which had bowed in due to fire.

 

 

 

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 17:11 | 4440265 moneybots
moneybots's picture

"Hah, moneybots, you could only influence people who never looked at the material to believe what you are saying. Anyone who looks at the archival videos about the WTC Towers being constructed as solid steel frame buildings, and then looks at the videos of those suddenly collapsing MUST come to the obvious common sense conclusion that the ONLY way that could happen is through some sort of controlled demolition."

 

I have looked at both and it is obvious to me that the out of control fires resulted in the collapse of the Towers.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 21:47 | 4440960 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

moneybots, I wonder is there something like an anti-degree in physics, where one is taught to not be able to understand the structural properties of substances like steel? It seems that you must have been a graduate of such a school. I continue to presume that people like you, who bother to post their incredibly stupid comments, are either emotionally incapable of facing the facts that the real world is controlled by lies and violence, or are being paid to promote those lies.

It is common sense that barbeque grills NEVER melt and collapse, because the temperatures NEVER get high enough to do that. Steel is not an exotic unfamiliar substance. Everyone has direct experience with steel. Anybody who has ever seen a barbeque working should be able to understand that the official story about 9/11 is preposterous. It is utterly ABSURD to assert steel frame buildings can just suddenly collapse, without some kind of controlled demolition to cause that to happen! The North and South Towers were constructed with 42 thick and solid central steel pillars in the core of those buildings, which just DISAPPEARED WITHIN 10 SECONDS, ALMOST DOWN TO GROUND LEVEL!

As the article above by George Washington pointed out, NO other steel frame buildings before or since have ever suddenly collapsed due to ordinary fires, even much worse and longer blazing fires than happened in WTC 1, 2 & 7. The common sense laws of physics appeared to be broken three times on 9/11, by what the official story asserts. Therefore, the official story was surely false, because it was IMPOSSIBLE for the collapses to happen unless there was some kind of controlled demolition.

9/11 was merely the most spectacular symbol of the general pattern of social facts that the real world is dominated by the people who are the best at being dishonest and backing that up with violence. Given those BASIC FACTS, it is clearly a waste of time to argue with anyone like you, moneybots, about that issue. You are either emotionally incapable of facing that fact, or are being paid to promote the lies. I hope, for your sake, you are being paid to appear to be so stupid. If I had to bet, I would bet that you are being paid to promote the Huge Lies, in the form of the official story about 9/11, rather than that you are so stupid that you actually believe steel frame buildings can suddenly collapse straight down to the ground due to some ordinary fires.

Sun, 02/16/2014 - 19:31 | 4443207 moneybots
moneybots's picture

"It is common sense that barbeque grills NEVER melt and collapse, because the temperatures NEVER get high enough to do that. Steel is not an exotic unfamiliar substance. Everyone has direct experience with steel. Anybody who has ever seen a barbeque working should be able to understand that the official story about 9/11 is preposterous. It is utterly ABSURD to assert steel frame buildings can just suddenly collapse, without some kind of controlled demolition to cause that to happen!"

 

A charcoal briquette produces how big a flame?  The flames exiting windows of 2 world Trade were how high?  There is no equality of comparison between the two. 

Steel is not an exotic unfamiliar substance, which is why fire retardant is sprayed on it to help prevent it from failing during a fire, as it is known that heat from fire WEAKENS steel.

Weakened steel can fail without melting, thus the fact that a metal grill does not melt, has no bearing on whether strutural steel will fail after being subject to a roaring fire.

Why do you have such difficulty understanding that? 

 

Sun, 02/16/2014 - 19:14 | 4443161 moneybots
moneybots's picture

"moneybots, I wonder is there something like an anti-degree in physics, where one is taught to not be able to understand the structural properties of substances like steel?"

 

Fire weakens steel.  It is that structural property, that causes construction companies to spray fire retardant on steel.  Flames were floor to ceiling and beyond, pouring out windows in the Towers.  That was hot and would affect structural steel.  Columns on the east wall of 2 World Trade bowed in.

 

"I continue to presume that people like you, who bother to post their incredibly stupid comments, are either emotionally incapable of facing the facts that the real world is controlled by lies and violence, or are being paid to promote those lies."

Your comedy act is funny.

Fri, 02/14/2014 - 20:11 | 4438057 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

Dr Judy Wood does NOT help the discussion, only muddies it.

Proving what did not happen -- like the 'official narrative' fire induced free fall collapse of WTC 7 -- is all that's required.

Fri, 02/14/2014 - 23:39 | 4438714 surfsup
surfsup's picture

http://global.fncstatic.com/static/managed/img/Scitech/Navy%20laser%20sh...

 

Live in the Persian Gulf!  Must be a conspiracy.... 

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 02:08 | 4438927 Bull Bear
Bull Bear's picture

My Question is.....Why is NO ONE allowed to test the steel from the Towers to see what really happened, that steel was hustled out of there in record time under strict security.....So WHY?..... Nothing to hide hmmmm

This way all the Cynics could be silenced for ones and for all.....

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 12:26 | 4439431 moneybots
moneybots's picture

"My Question is.....Why is NO ONE allowed to test the steel from the Towers to see what really happened, that steel was hustled out of there in record time under strict security.....So WHY?..... Nothing to hide hmmmm

This way all the Cynics could be silenced for ones and for all....."

 

What really happened was visible on live TV.  Two jetliners flew into the Towers, causing jet fuel to ignite, which caused the office combustibles to catch fire.  The fires raged completely out of control.  The fires weakened enough of the structural steel to the point where a catastrophic failure occurred, causing each Tower to collapse.

The steel was not hustled out in record time.  It took 9 months to remove all the debris.  The removal of debris was not done in secret. 

Fri, 02/14/2014 - 22:58 | 4438254 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

Ignatius, that was what I thought too, at first, and for a few years, during my investigations into 9/11. However, one of Jesse Ventura's shows made me go back and reconsider, and look at lot more closely at the evidence. The result is as I explained above.

I agree that the basic conclusion that 9/11 was an INSIDE JOB, FALSE FLAG ATTACK is the conclusion that MATTERS MOST. I agree that building 7 events most forces one to reach that conclusion. However, what I am STILL SAYING is that there IS evidence which points to some kind of unknown directed energy weapons, being part of the controlled demolition of WTC Buildings 1 and 2. Like I said, that tends to make things overall WORSE, because it means recognizing that there must be secret weapons, even more awesome than atomic bombs, which EXIST.

The overall political problem is that the history of warfare, developing at an exponential rate for thousands of years, has recently resulted in there probably being all kinds of secret weapons, secret space programs, and countless other trillions of dollars of secret underground bases, and so on and so forth. THEREFORE, THINGS ARE TRILLIONS OF TIMES WORSE THAN THE GENERAL PUBLIC IS AWARE OF, AND HEADED TOWARDS BECOMING QUADRILLIONS OF TIMES WORSE!

The world is full of millions and millions of professional killers, who came from lines of people that had specialized for thousands of years in developing militarism, to become the most psychotic science there has ever been. But nevertheless, militarism is the supreme ideology, because it makes itself be so! It is impossible to understand the money system without understanding the murder system that backs that up. Thousands and thousands of years of some people specializing in attempting to kill other people before those people kill them is what has driven our civilization to become what it is now. 9/11 was merely the most spectacular symbol of the degree to which our murder systems operate on the basis of the maximum possible deceits, while the financial crises in 2008, and the absolutely ass-backwards ways that those were responded to, was a symbol of how the financial world is controlled by the maximum possible frauds.

THEREFORE, THE REAL WORLD IS NOT ONLY INSANE, BUT MORE INSANE THAT WE CAN IMAGINE! The historically established social systems based on backing up lies with violence have been amplified many, many orders of magnitude by advances in science and technology, BUT, that has resulted in the established social pyramid systems becoming much, much more demented than they ever were before. Not only are there certainly tens of thousands of weapons of mass destruction that we already know exist, there are also very probably even more weapons of mass destruction that we do not know exist, and do not even know could exist, because they are still secret.

The first levels of more 9/11 Truth penetrate into the notions that there must have been some kind of controlled demolition, and then what follows is that 9/11 must have been an inside job, false flag attack. Anybody who looks enough at the available information comes to that conclusion. (Anybody who denies that does so on the basis of deliberately ignoring lots of the available information, because they have some personal or political reasons to keep on supporting the huge lies in the official story.)

What I am suggesting is that there are deeper and deeper levels to 9/11 Truths, which appears to me, now, to include that 9/11 actually revealed that there exist secret energy weapons, that were used on 9/11/2001, to cause some of what happened ... As I said, imagine that after the USA bombed Japan, at the end of the World War II, there continued to be no public admissions about what happened, or how that happened, but rather, there were still huge lies, and denials of what had happened?

In general, I think it is almost impossible to imagine where trillions of black budget dollars, and superblack budget dollars, have gone, for decade after decade, so that there is probably secret spying from space, and through computers, which operates on a scale that even Hollywood movies could barely exaggerate. Generally speaking, these days, one can find out some of what actually happened in those regards, back in the 1960s, or even up until the middle 1970s. However, since then, it has become totally impossible to discover what the military, and the secret military, have actually been doing. One can only guess about what 40 more years of secret exponential growth of weapons' technologies may have produced ...

Fri, 02/14/2014 - 20:24 | 4438203 Johnny Cocknballs
Johnny Cocknballs's picture
Dr. Judy Wood: 9/11 Gatekeeper Extraordinaire Judy Wood's Blatant Misrepresentation of 9-11 Facts

She's primarily about trying to take your eyes off the Israelis, some of whom were arrested with explosives day off. Her science is...  amateurish but competent enough to seem interesting.

 

http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2012/05/joe-walsh-and-the-911-cover...

Before such issues had been fully explored, however, the investigation was shut down. Following what ABC News reported were “high-level negotiations between Israeli and U.S. government officials”, a settlement was reached in the case of the five Urban Moving Systems suspects. Intense political pressure apparently had been brought to bear. The reputable Israeli daily Ha’aretz reported that by the last week of October 2001, some six weeks after the men had been detained, Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage and two unidentified ”prominent New York congressmen” were lobbying heavily for their release. According to a source at ABC News close to the 20/20 report, high-profile criminal lawyer Alan Dershowitz also stepped in as a negotiator on behalf of the men to smooth out differences with the U.S. government. (Dershowitz declined to comment for this article.) And so, at the end of November 2001, for reasons that only noted they had been working in the country illegally as movers, in violation of their visas, the men were flown home to Israel.

What’s incendiary is the idea – supported, though not proven, by several pieces of evidence – that the Israelis did learn something about 9/11 in advance but failed to share all of what they knew with American officials. The questions are disturbing enough to warrant a Congressional investigation. …

Yet none of this information found its way into Congress’s joint committee report on the attacks, and it was not even tangentially referenced in the nearly 600 pages of the 9/11 Commission’s final report. Nor would a single major media outlet track the revelations of  The Forward and ABC News to investigate further. “There weren’t even stories saying it was bull***”, says The Forward’s Perelman. “Honestly, I was surprised”. Instead, the story disappeared into the welter of  anti-Israel 9/11 conspiracy theories.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 00:00 | 4438746 surfsup
surfsup's picture

hahahaha you are a rocket scientist!   She doesn't take our eyes off anything of the kind.   

Remember the clip of Silverstein saying "We pulled it... "  ???  

C'mon, a kajillion file cabinets full of ACTIVE EVIDENCE in all those federal offices in WT7 -- and he said, "we decided to just pull it... "

Uh ... yeah right.   

Why did he say that?  Pull refers to demolition...  Why would he steer us there?

Only one reason -- to keep our eyes off the spontaneus combustion that happened which was metal specific all over the place with the cars and the fact 

the debris pile is a dead give away a sizable chunk of the buildings turned to dust my friend.

 

He wants (or was likely told) to hide the toys !!!

 

http://fringe.devhub.com/img/upload/hutchison_effect.jpg

 

http://www.rumormillnews.com/images/JOHN_HUTCHISON.jpg

 

http://intalek.com/Index/Projects/SmartLINK/HutchisonEffect.jpg

 

Guess that aint gonna happen !!!   Thanks Larry !!!!!!

 

Also, what s with this "blame the jews" thing?     Its human nature we're dealing with not religion.   There are plenty of jews who would never do such harm to life.  Sounds like a deflection away from data to me... 

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 17:30 | 4440327 moneybots
moneybots's picture

"hahahaha you are a rocket scientist!   She doesn't take our eyes off anything of the kind.   

Remember the clip of Silverstein saying "We pulled it... "  ???  

C'mon, a kajillion file cabinets full of ACTIVE EVIDENCE in all those federal offices in WT7 -- and he said, "we decided to just pull it... "

Uh ... yeah right.   

Why did he say that?  Pull refers to demolition..."

 

Pull refers to a lot of things.  The firemen were pulled out of 7 World Trade.

 

 

Fri, 02/14/2014 - 21:06 | 4438330 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

Johnny, I agree that there is an Anglo-American (Zionist) Empire, and that the degree to which Zionists overlapped with the American administration in power during the events around 9/11/2001 was so extreme that there is no practical way to separate the Zionists from the American government officials. A lot of the most important actors were literally dual American / Israeli citizens. However, I think that those who want to blame the "Jews" get just as irrationally bent out of shape as those who do not.

Of course, I too spent considerable time going back and forth between Judy Wood supporters and detractors. In the end, what motivated me to tilt more to her basic view, than be against it (as I started off being), was all the photographic evidence of the EXTREMELY STRANGE WAYS that vehicles were "toasted," around the area where the WTC Towers 1 and 2 collapsed. (I do not find such evidence regarding building 7, which looked to me to be a more obvious and simple controlled demolition.)

The photographic and video evidence of how the North and South Towers suddenly collapsed is SO STRANGE, that merely nanothermite, or other known means of controlled demolition, is NOT enough to explain that. Carefully timed explosions that cut out the steel supports could explain some of how those buildings collapsed, and I am not asserting that there were no such features involved in what happened. However, the ways that those Towers TURNED TO DUST, and collapsed in ways where most of the rubble that should still have been there was instead scattered as dust all across Manhattan was TOO STRANGE, unless one posits that there was some kind of unknown secret energy weapons that were involved in making that happen.

When one starts to travel through the infinite tunnels of deceits surrounding the 9/11 issue, I do not think it it too far-fetched to consider that there could indeed be secret weapons of mass destruction, which exist, but whose existence has been hidden from the general public, as I outlined in my other reply here to Ignatius. Rather, one would expect that the runaway psychotic Anglo-American (Zionist) Empire to have done everything it could to develop such weapons, and keep them secret!

Fri, 02/14/2014 - 21:45 | 4438386 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

"...that merely nanothermite, or other known means of controlled demolition, is NOT enough to explain that."

You make the focus on 'how' it was done in deference to 'that' it was done.  Moves the argument to the wrong space.  The hurdle is the American incredulity that 9/11 with an inside component is the likely truth.  When I go to the circus and the magician 'cuts the woman in half' and miraculously puts her back together, I don't need to know exactly how he carried out the illusion to know that it's an illusion.

Fri, 02/14/2014 - 21:48 | 4438444 Johnny Cocknballs
Johnny Cocknballs's picture

nano-t and the heat it generates can explain the pyroclastic flow and 'pulverizing' wood talks about.

There's no way 9/11 didn't involve elements of the us government and military.  But there's also no way it wasn't assisted by Israel, including "bait" low level agents driving around, and Zionist American Jew sayanim like Lucky Larry. In a sense, the involvement of Israelis and Zionist Jews make it much harder to get any movement on a new and fair investigation.  If it were just a bunch of non-Jewish white guys, the "antisemite" bullshit wouldn't have to be overcome.  

There were active and prima facie absurd efforts to stop reasonable investigations of Israeli spies before and after 9/11, the judges and "investigators" involved just happened to be mainly Jewish.

No one claims that you're anti-American for suggesting elements of the us gov were involved' this is a trick to dissuade people from discussing obvious Israeli involvement, as well as the involvement of American Jews who are primarily loyal to Israel, which is in large part what the {mostly Jewish} neocons are.  This doesn't mean all Jews - but it's a dangeorus and powerful minority of them, who act due to their Jewishness and connection to Israel

http://www.voltairenet.org/article178638.html

9/11 was indeed a transformative catalyst - as called for by PNAC, whose Zionist chickenhawks had presented arguments in favor of attacking Iraq to both the Israel then American governments - but resting on different premises {discussed in link above which is well worth a read}...  their thinking wasn't about protecting the US, but followed from the Oded Yinon line of plans. 

Someone should have grabbed Larry off hte street and made him talk by now, but for now, disinfo and the "antisemitism" and "conspiracy theorist" smears preclude actually catching the criminals. 

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 02:11 | 4438929 chindit13
chindit13's picture

If there's any consolation we can take from the horrible events of 911, it is the knowledge that "elements of the us government and military" are so competent that fixing the economy or coming up with a replacement for petroleum for our energy needs should be a piece of cake.

Supermen, they are.  Uber mensch.  I'm going to go sign up for Obamacare right now.

Personally, I'd like to see the 2000 folks in AE911 do a debate with some of the tens of thousands more architects and engineers who disagree with them.  Let each side make its case.  We could then focus on just those things about which experts might differ, and toss out all the ancillary and bogus crap others insist is "proof", such as "pull it" (listen to the whole tape, not just what the charlatan Alex Jones quote mines), failure to intercept non-squawking aircraft (see the 45 minute intercept of Payne Stewart's ill-fated Lear, which had both filed a flight plan it was on and had a working transponder), the NORAD "stand down" (see NORAD's pre-911 operation and pre-911 ADIZs), a C-172 trained pilot couldn't fly a commercial aircraft (see AOPA website for a non-pilot landing a commercial aircraft on an industry simulator first try), Mohammed Atta's passport (talk to people who sifted all the debris at the offsite and found thousands of intact personal items from WTC workers and aircraft passengers), the "BBC report" (as if such a supposedly flawless conspiracy would pre-issue a press release, since reporters might have overlooked the collapse of a 47 story building that few knew existed before 911 and didn't know WTC4 from 6 from 3), the "suspicious trading activity in airline stocks" (get the actual records for trading for a year prior and note how "irregular" or not the trading was, plus see the majority were in a pairs trade...which was long puts on one airline that had just been downgraded and long calls on another industry competitor), Rumsfeld's 910 comment about bad (not irregular, but incompetent) accounting (as if he'd go about 'destroying evidence' the very next day in the belief nobody would make the connection), the "missile" that hit the Pentagon (but which was described by people playing the nearby golf course as a silver commercial jet with American Airline markings making a very low approach to Reagan National just on the other side of the GW parkway)...and.....and....and...oh, let's not forget phone transcripts from the NYFD where on-the-scene personnel are warning as early as 2PM that WTC was creaking and probably going to collapse from the fires burning inside (granted they are just firefighters and not engineers, but their comments are telling nonetheless).

Absent that, I'd be happy just to see a UFC death match between Jim Quinn and DavidPierre.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 19:58 | 4440693 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

chinshit13:

You and Jim Quinn are cut from the same MORONIC cloth.

Fuck you both!

Only God might forgive deliberate stupidity.

I sure as hell won't.

Jim Quinn has not the balls for a 9/11 debate.

Fri, 02/14/2014 - 22:47 | 4438577 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

Johnny, I do not disagree with you about the probably central role that Israelis and particularly dual citizens of both American and Israel had in enabling 9/11 to happen, and to cover that up. In particular I agree "PNAC, whose Zionist chickenhawks" were very probably involved in the long process of planning and pulling that off. It is also clear that the mass media corporations, as well as crucial members of the Justice Department, were the same kinds of people, who were instrumental in promoting the false story, and preventing any proper investigations from ever happening.

However, I currently disagree that "nano-t and the heat it generates can explain the pyroclastic flow and 'pulverizing' wood talks about." I repeat that the the detailed photographic and video evidence about the collapses of WTC 1 & 2, and their surroundings, is simply TOO STRANGE to be accounted for by merely nanothermite. I repeat that the ways that some surrounding vehicles were "toasted" was way too strange to be explained with the simple heat from explosives planted inside the buildings. Furthermore, there are details from little bits of the videos, and related photos, where the process of standing steel columns just disintegrating are shown. Therefore, I no longer believe that any kinds of explosives, which may well have played a real role in the controlled demolition of WTC 1 & 2, can be enough to explain away all of the STRANGE evidence that demonstrates something else must have also been going on!

Meanwhile, I also still agree with comments from Ignatius that the it may be a distraction from the most important issue, to worry about details which could never be now proven to everyone's satisfaction, since there were never any proper investigations of the 9/11 mass murder scenes, which were allowed to happen, when they should have happened. That is enough to prove that there must have been a deliberate cover-up of something that was NOT what the official story says happened.

However, right from the start, in my own voyage of discovery about this, starting back in 2006, when I watched the Loose Change video, NOTHING HAS CHANGED! I happen to be Canadian, and I can tell you that NONE of the political parties represented in our Parliament will talk about more 9/11 Truth, and nobody who is a Candidate for election endorsed by those parties is allowed to raise even the slightest public doubts about the truth of the 9/11 official story. For all practical purposes, the establishment has a lock down on their Huge Lies about 9/11.

In Canada, the Huge Lies about 9/11 have resulted in more than a hundred billion dollars being pumped into the Canadian military industrial complex, as well as billions of dollars being spent to join with NATO in their invasion of Afghanistan. The Anglo-American (Zionist) Empire dominates Canada just as much as it does elsewhere. Our current government is led by Crazy Christian Zionists, and everybody in the opposition parties in Parliament are basically similar. The Huge Lies about 9/11 control Canadian politics to the degree that there is no public opposition to that of any significance, so far.

Fri, 02/14/2014 - 17:48 | 4437743 thurstjo63
thurstjo63's picture

I guess you've never heard a material called, thermite which is used in controlled demolition, and stays hot for a very long time afterwards. The civil engineers who inspected the WTC after 9/11 found it in abundant quantities at the site. Generally the most simple solution which explains the facts iin a consistent manner is the explanation. I cannot speak for the Madrid skyscraper fire but I know from personal contacts that there was nothing amazing about the WTC. It was a controlled demolition.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 12:44 | 4439489 moneybots
moneybots's picture

"I guess you've never heard a material called, thermite which is used in controlled demolition, and stays hot for a very long time afterwards."

Thermite when activated, becomes a rapid chemical reaction, which burns out quickly.  It does not have an insulator to hold in heat that was rapidly expended. 

 

"Generally the most simple solution which explains the facts iin a consistent manner is the explanation."

The buildings were on fire.

Fri, 02/14/2014 - 23:42 | 4438726 surfsup
surfsup's picture

Then where did the buildings go?

1,250,000 tons of metal and a pile only 8 stories high at best?   

Clearly you need to see this:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vadSaWyiozg

This event was PUBLIC VALIDATION of this technology !     Demolition leaves a seismic signature!! duh... Didn't happen...   

But but but...   Buck Rogers is sci fi...  

http://global.fncstatic.com/static/managed/img/Scitech/Navy%20laser%20sh...

 

 

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 21:53 | 4440985 blindman
blindman's picture

http://www.bollyn.com/the-mystery-of-wtc-6/
The Mystery of WTC 6
June 23, 2009

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 12:55 | 4439526 moneybots
moneybots's picture

"Then where did the buildings go?

1,250,000 tons of metal and a pile only 8 stories high at best?"

 

The metal was spread out over a wide area, as it all didn't just fall within the building footprint.  Also you might note that a column, which stands say 12 feet tall when standing, is only a foot or two when laying flat.

Fri, 02/14/2014 - 23:44 | 4438725 surfsup
surfsup's picture

.

 

Fri, 02/14/2014 - 15:23 | 4437243 OhBaldOne
OhBaldOne's picture

Welcome to the world of controlled demolition using nanothermite to cut through the steel beams…and found for years afterwards in samples of the debris from the towers and building 7.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 13:04 | 4439551 moneybots
moneybots's picture

"Welcome to the world of controlled demolition using nanothermite to cut through the steel beams…and found for years afterwards in samples of the debris from the towers and building 7."

 

Yet no steel beams had any evidence of being cut by thermite or any other demolition method.

 

 

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 17:34 | 4440343 moneybots
moneybots's picture

"Welcome to the world of controlled demolition using nanothermite to cut through the steel beams…and found for years afterwards in samples of the debris from the towers and building 7."

 

Yet no steel beams had any evidence of being cut by thermite or any other demolition method.

 

3 minus recs for factual information.

 

Fri, 02/14/2014 - 20:17 | 4438183 chunga
chunga's picture

The first rule of controlled demolition club is you do not talk about controlled demolition club.

[wouldn't you love to see the IP log on this thread?]

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 00:18 | 4438775 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Yes. I think that they'd get pissed if I hacked it.

 

But the NSA has a copy.

 

Perhaps Tyler Durden will be so kind to expose it.

Fri, 02/14/2014 - 23:44 | 4438730 surfsup
surfsup's picture

Welcome to the world of "cover the new toys" or else... 

 

http://d3z1rkrtcvm2b.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/zap1.jpg

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!