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Are Millions of Business People At Risk of Dying In Collapsing Buildings?

George Washington's picture




 

This is one in a series of safety-related public service announcements.

Death Traps?

Millions of people work in or visit high-rise buildings … assuming the buildings were more or less safe.

But it turns out that there is a severe, lethal risk of sudden collapse in even the best-made skyscrapers in America, Britain, Germany, Japan and other nations worldwide.

A New Understanding

Before 9/11, no modern steel-frame high-rise building had ever collapsed due to fire.

9/11 radically changed our understanding of architecture and engineering …

Specifically, 3 steel-frame buildings collapsed on that day. That includes one that was never hit by a plane, and had only small, isolated office fires prior to its collapse.

This was unexpected, as much hotter, longer-lasting fires have never before brought down a modern steel-frame office building.  For example, the 2005 Madrid skyscraper fire “reached 800 degrees Celsius (1,472 F), said Javier Sanz, head of Madrid firefighter”  and lasted some 20 hours without collapsing.

In other words, officials who write building codes, architects and structural engineers had never before worried about small office fires causing office buildings from collapsing.

Appendix A of the Federal Emergency Management Agency’s World Trade Center Building Performance Study notes:

In the case of the fire at One Meridian Plaza, the fire burned uncontrolled for the first 11 hours and lasted 19 hours. Contents from nine floors were completely consumed in the fire. In addition to these experiences in fire incidents, as a result of the Broadgate fire, British Steel and the Building Research Establishment performed a series of six experiments at Cordington in the mid-1990s to investigate the behavior of steel frame buildings. These experiments were conducted in a simulated, eight-story building. Secondary steel beams were not protected. Despite the temperature of the steel beam reaching 800-900 °C (1,500-1,700 °F) in three tests (well above the traditionally assumed critical temperature of 600 °C [1,100 °F]), no collapse was observed in any of the six experiments.

Underwriters Laboratories tested the steel components at the Twin Towers and found they could withstand fires for hours without failure:

“NIST [the government agency - National Institute of Standards and Technology, a branch of the Department of Commerce - responsible for investigating the collapse of the 3 buildings on 9/11] contracted with Underwriters Laboratories, Inc. to conduct tests to obtain information on the fire endurance of trusses like those in the WTC towers…. All four test specimens sustained the maximum design load for approximately 2 hours without collapsing… The Investigation Team was cautious about using these results directly in the formulation of collapse hypotheses. In addition to the scaling issues raised by the test results, the fires in the towers on September 11, and the resulting exposure of the floor systems, were substantially different from the conditions in the test furnaces. Nonetheless, the [empirical test] results established that this type of assembly was capable of sustaining a large gravity load, without collapsing, for a substantial period of time relative to the duration of the fires in any given location on September 11.” (NIST, 2005, p. 140).

Other fire tests have also failed to cause failures at high temperatures.

So the collapse of World Trade Center Building 7 on 9/11 (not hit by a plane) was a surprise … and should be a huge concern to the millions of people who work in office buildings worldwide.

To get to the bottom of this issue, Washington’s Blog reached out to a former manager at Underwriters Laboratories – Kevin Ryan – to seek reassurance that the danger was small for the millions of financial services industry workers, business men, lawyers, web executives, and others who work in office buildings:

[Question]  Wasn’t the steel used in the Twin Towers and Building 7 of inferior quality?  So as long as builders use better-quality steel, can’t we be assured of safety?

[Kevin Ryan]   The steel used to build WTC Building 7 was the standard grade for high-rise construction–still used to this day–called ASTM A36 grade steel. It was not inferior in any way from the steel used to make many of the other high-rise buildings in America.

For the Twin Towers, fourteen different grades of steel were used in the construction, including A36, which has a nominal strength of 36 ksi.  The other grades used were higher strength steels like 100 ksi WEL-TEN steel which was manufactured in Japan and shipped to the States. The steel used in the Towers was actually far superior to typical structural steel.

The official government reports on the destruction of the WTC buildings did not find any problem with the quality of the materials or construction methods used. And although those reports did make some recommendations for changes to building codes, those changes have not been incorporated in municipal codes or adopted by the building construction community.

[Question]   You write in Foreign Policy Journal:

“And if people actually understood and believed the official account of what happened at the WTC they would not enter tall buildings because in doing so they would be putting their lives at risk.”

What do you mean?

[Ryan]  What I mean is that high-rise buildings are designed and constructed to withstand fires that are much worse than what we know existed in WTC Building 7. My former company, Underwriters Laboratories (UL), plays a big part in that process. We know that UL did the fire resistance testing that was behind the selection of the steel components for WTC7 because that fact is in the NIST WTC7 report. Therefore the steel columns and floor assemblies should have withstood 2 to 3 hours of intense fire in a testing furnace, as required by the NYC code.  But on 9/11, the fire lasted only 20 minutes in any given area, a fact that NIST admits, and the entire structure was destroyed due to an inexplicable failure to resist fire.

Moreover, NIST abandoned its previous hypotheses that suggested the destruction of WTC7 might have resulted from diesel fuel fires, or damage from falling debris, or the design of the building. In the end, NIST said that it was only the effects of the fire fed by office furnishings, on fully-fireproofed steel components, that caused the total destruction of this 47-story building. And since no actions have been taken to retrofit any existing high-rise buildings, we must assume that what happened to WTC7, according to the official account, could happen to any tall building that experiences a typical office fire.

No Change (?!)

Given that 9/11 totally changed our understanding of how dangerous small office fires could be, we couldn’t believe Ryan’s claim that “changes have not been incorporated in municipal codes or adopted by the building construction community.”

So Washington’s Blog contacted Richard Gage,  a practicing architect for more than two decades, who has worked on most types of building construction, including one project which used  around 1,200 tons of steel framing:

[Question] Have high-rise architects and engineers changed how they build skyscrapers, to prevent collapses after 9/11?

And have they changed how they build skyscrapers to prevent office fires from knocking down steel buildings?

[Richard Gage] No – they haven’t made any structural changes.

No structural changes?!

Either building code writers, architects and engineers are cavalierly ignoring this catastrophic new understanding of the extreme danger of small office fires, or the investigation into the collapse of World Trade Center building 7 on 9/11 was flawed.

No wonder New York residents have launched a High Rise Safety Initiative to try to protect the safety of those who work or visit office buildings.

Postscript:  Until this issue is resolved through a complete revision of building codes and architectural and engineering practices, we recommend that everyone stay out of office buildings. Because if even small office fires can cause the whole building to collapse, it’s just not worth the risk to go inside.

 

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Fri, 02/14/2014 - 08:21 | 4435927 Randoom Thought
Randoom Thought's picture

Maybe you miss my point. I am looking for some math from you, not just unsupported words.

Did you know that your writing is very similar to MillionDollarBonus ... lol.

Fri, 02/14/2014 - 07:36 | 4435860 FredFlintstone
FredFlintstone's picture

What engineering discipline is your degree in? ...

"the PE of just the top 10 floors was sufficient to melt lots of steel AND exceeded many tonnes of TNT equivalent in joules, far greater than the amount required to exceed known WTC7 calculations."

If I think I understand you correctly, and use the same rationale we should be concerned that water in a hydro plant might flash into steam on its anticipation of converting all of its PE into KE?

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 11:16 | 4439291 Urban Roman
Urban Roman's picture

It depends on your definition of "lots of". And "many".

And of course, on the laser-like focus of that energy into only those tasks you are talking about in a particular post.

Fri, 02/14/2014 - 05:57 | 4435773 AurorusBorealus
AurorusBorealus's picture

Since you seem to know it all, do, pray-tell, explain how this potential energy was converted into heat as the buildings collapsed.  I would be very interested in hearing that.  I have dropped many things in my life and never saw any of them burst into flames from their "potential energy" being converted into kinetic energy as heat.  Oh, and I didn´t sleep through science class, I taught the history of science in university.

Fri, 02/14/2014 - 04:15 | 4435687 blanketof ash
blanketof ash's picture

Actually your attack pattern strongly resembles one of those goon-boy trolls paid by the Israeli government, so ubiquitous across the internet, who are always telling us how superior your intelligence and abilities are, and just how stupid and ignorant the rest of us are. But, I do try to keep an open mind. Perhaps you could be so kind as to enlighten us, wise professor, by posting a sampling of your data and calculations so that we may verify your conclusions. Some actual numbers for example would be helpful.

 

Fri, 02/14/2014 - 03:59 | 4435673 janus
janus's picture

leracontour,

i feel provoked by your posts.  whether or not you had the provocation of janus in mind when first you laid those feculent lil fingers on that keyboard of yours, none but you and your sodomy-buddy can say.

what i will say is that you are pimping the new thesis...think i don't fuckin know what items and particulars constitute the new dreck and drivel that is to be promoted?  this is line for fuckin line.  you worthless piece of filth...i hope you carefully consider what and for whom you're 'operating'.  if you had any clue what's about to befall low-level flunkies like, well, yourself...all i can say is, may God have mercy (cause i sure as shit will not).

in your first post, you strutted out the promise of some fancy math that we peons couldn't possibly fathom...but, if you please, share with us dullards your calculations viz. joules, PEs, KEs and the like.  perhaps some of us weren't sleeping through any class; perhaps we'll be able to metabolize all your high and inscrutable figuring...perhaps.  i look forward to reviewing your industry and deft with mathematics; i want to learn from you, great and all-knowing math-man.  give me five minutes with your figures, and i will destroy you with them.  but i know that you won't; as i know you haven't done the work; inasmuch as you're a solipsistic imbecile.

yes, that feeling in your gut...janus put it there.  now shit's about to get real...wanna play?

in the first part of the post to which i'm responding, you premise all manner of 'truth' on your agility with a stopwatch and some youtube clips.  it seems as if we're to forfeit our arguments because you've detected a variance in gravity and the speed at which the buildings fell.  oh, bloody-hell!  you're right...a half-second separation from the absolute of gravity dissolves the whole debate (naturally, some impedance will interfere when bits stack atop bits...and you're right, the fact that they didn't fall at the precise rate of gravity nullifies everything.  we should just pack up and go home.  nevermind the fact that the term 'freefall' is just common shorthand to describe the 'unobstructed' descent of an object through space).

your understanding of joules, PE, KE and whatnot fails to include how and by what means such energy is transferred.  what mechanism would translate such force into heat sufficient to melt steel?  how does gravity coupled with mass manifest itself as molten-steel-making heat?  friction, in a perfect and established setting, may do the trick...but then there's these 'acres' of open space that quash your thesis.  here's the thing, heat dissipates and never concentrates.  go study newton if you doubt janus. 

fool that you are, you cite physics in your defense.  have you no understanding of vectors?  did you sleep through that portion of your physics class?  little halfling, you must understand that physics attempts to collate the interplay of conflicting forces within a given dynamic.  i could show you, with theoretical physics, why you could and should implode or explode at any given moment...i could likewise prove to you that you do not exist...i could further demonstrate that you cannot walk or talk...i could, as is germane to this debate, show you how the heat from a cigarette could set of a catastrophic chain of events that would unleash all your joules in a fiery and untimely demise of someone that would be so sorely missed.  but, nimrod, the real world doesn't always comport with the expectations of theoretical physics.  

take your majik bullet theory, your 9-11 nonsense, your 'existential threats' and shove them up your quivering ass.

i believe it's you what has the problem accepting bald and unvarnished reality.  need i come out and say it?   

okay, what the fuck.  

ISRAEL = 911.

there ya go, ho.

btw, what's the original spelling of your last name?

i look forward to your response.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMs1QVW_yjk

when the angel of death comes down after you/

can you smile and say that you have been true?,

janus

 

Fri, 02/14/2014 - 04:13 | 4435685 fuu
fuu's picture

You still owe me for your hotel bill in Tyre.

Fri, 02/14/2014 - 05:18 | 4435744 janus
janus's picture

i've missed you, ole buddy; and thanks for lightening my mood -- i was starting to get righteously pissed...i've seen you around, but forgive me for not sayin howdy.

as to the debt, well, as is always the case with janus, the check is in the mail.  it grieves me though; in that the architect of a city should never be billed in any way by it.

i want a ZHealot conference of some sort...we could all pay in cash, stay anon and whatnot, go by our avatar names...whatev.  there's so many of you i'm anxious to physically meet (and you, FUU, are at the top of the list...we've had some good times, you and i; and janus is a world-class trouble-maker (oh, the times we could have)).

and, if this beneficent event should ever befall, i promise (solemnly and all) that i will not choke-slam or bloody the nose of any attendee.  but, ZHealots that have crossed janus, don't bring your wives, girlfriends or mistressess -- on that score, i make no promises.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d5dKBMK5mo

he stands for justice/

he has no fear,

janus

Fri, 02/14/2014 - 07:41 | 4435868 FredFlintstone
FredFlintstone's picture

I am there. We can set it up to coincide and be nearby the Bilderberg conference next year.

Fri, 02/14/2014 - 05:31 | 4435756 fuu
fuu's picture

Maybe some day. We would have to call ahead though and make sure the bar had enough Glenfarclas on hand.

Don't let the Million Dollar Bonus brigade get you down.

Fri, 02/14/2014 - 06:19 | 4435779 janus
janus's picture

i had to take a moment and ponderate (hope you're still awake); as i wanted to make some payment on my bill...at least a portion of it; will you take half for now?

here's $$$333:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1ViAIdO3i4

{this is my new favorite song.  came to me not long ago on boston's public radio.  say what you will about boston, we have awesome public radio.  DJ name of Brendhan Hogan keeps me groovin almost every night.  oh, no doubt, i'm sure you've heard it...but i couldn't take the chance you hadn't.  if i remember correctly, you have the best aesthetic sensibilty (musically) i've so far encountered here on the Hedge.}

everything i got is done & pawned,

janus

Fri, 02/14/2014 - 14:49 | 4437113 chunga
chunga's picture

Not to divert attention from the disinformation fuckhead trolls but that gal Elizabeth Cotten is awesome.

I've never heard her before. Did you notice she is playing the guitar upside down? She is left handed! Incredible!

Fri, 02/14/2014 - 06:59 | 4435808 fuu
fuu's picture

What a great song, certainly worth a few didrachm.

One for the road: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNj2BXW852g

Fri, 02/14/2014 - 02:27 | 4435605 BigJim
BigJim's picture

Lulz. You decry everyone's lack of 'intelligence' but fail to comprehend this article is about WTC7.

Fri, 02/14/2014 - 02:00 | 4435564 macfly
macfly's picture

Let's see how many PsyOps Gvmt trolls we can find in this one thread You're #2.

Fri, 02/14/2014 - 00:06 | 4435282 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

The STEM crisis had to begin somewhere.....

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 23:17 | 4435163 americanspirit
americanspirit's picture

The major threat to health in high rise buildings is asphyxiation from the stench of cheap cologne, stale urine, rotting stomachs, and testoterone sweat in the elevators going up in the morning.

Fri, 02/14/2014 - 02:44 | 4435614 kurt
kurt's picture

You must be an Aqua Velva Man!

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 22:43 | 4435074 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

Wait a minute I thought the US government caused the building to fall? 

Were, like, the terrorists carrying cigarette lighters?

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 22:32 | 4435021 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

Far as I know they didn't rebuild the damaged part of the Pentagon to be drone proof either.

 

"Guillotines can be build dual-purpose. 'Rope or blade'?"

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 22:09 | 4434909 Duc888
Duc888's picture

 

 

Yes, office fires cause steel to remain molten and liquid 4 weeks after a building collapse.

Fri, 02/14/2014 - 12:24 | 4436603 moneybots
moneybots's picture

"Yes, office fires cause steel to remain molten and liquid 4 weeks after a building collapse."

 

How many building demos had molten steel after they collapsed?  Would none be the correct number?  So building demos don't cause molten steel.

 

 

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 22:34 | 4435032 moneybots
moneybots's picture

"Yes, office fires cause steel to remain molten and liquid 4 weeks after a building collapse."

 

There was no molten steel.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 22:56 | 4435115 George Washington
George Washington's picture

You're right ... oh, wait:

  • According to reporter Christopher Bollyn, Mark Loizeaux, president
    the world’s top demolition company, and Peter Tully, head of a large
    construction firm, said the following:

Tully told AFP that he had seen pools of “literally molten steel” in the rubble.

Loizeaux confirmed this: “Yes, hot spots of molten steel in the basements,” he said, “at the bottom of the elevator shafts of the main towers, down seven levels.”

The molten steel was found “three, four, and five weeks later, when
the rubble was being removed,” he said. He confirmed that molten steel was also found at WTC 7, which mysteriously collapsed in the late afternoon.

Here’s what eyewitness firefighters say:

Here’s what other eyewitnesses say:

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 23:34 | 4435202 moneybots
moneybots's picture

"New York firefighters recalled in a documentary film, “heat so intense they encountered rivers of molten steel“ "

 

Sooooooo, where are the photographs of it?  A river of molten steel doesn't just disapear into thin air.

Sun, 02/16/2014 - 05:16 | 4441668 russwinter
russwinter's picture

GW: I pray to God this guy is just spoofing you, otherwise I will have to give up on all humanity. 

Fri, 02/14/2014 - 05:52 | 4435770 AurorusBorealus
AurorusBorealus's picture

There are many photographs of beams with red-hot molten ends being lifted from the rubble.  Thermographic satellite images confirm the intense heat.  Plenty of visual evidence, if that´s what you need and refuse to believe eyewitness testimony from professional firefighters.

Fri, 02/14/2014 - 13:04 | 4436729 moneybots
moneybots's picture

"There are many photographs of beams with red-hot molten ends being lifted from the rubble.  Thermographic satellite images confirm the intense heat.  Plenty of visual evidence, if that´s what you need and refuse to believe eyewitness testimony from professional firefighters."

 

Red hot is not molten.  I have seen at least one photo of a machine holding up a glowing piece of metal.  Glowing is not molten. 

"Initial analysis of these data revealed a number of thermal hot spots on September 16 in the region where the buildings collapsed 5 days earlier. Analysis of the data indicates temperatures greater than 800 degrees F. Over 3 dozen hot spots appear in the core zone. By September 23, only 4, or possibly 5, hot spots are apparent, with temperatures cooler than those on September 16."
http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2001/ofr-01-0405/ofr-01-0405.html

"Over 800 degrees F is hot, but not nearly hot enough. A more speculative view on the paper suggests maximum temperatures of 1341 degrees F ( http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2001/ofr-01-0429/thermal.r09.html ), but that's still well below the “about 2,800° Fahrenheit” we need to get "literally molten steel". "

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 02:24 | 4438941 Seer
Seer's picture

I agree with your insistence on looking at this (in this cased the molten issue), but let's consider that those presenting this information are part of a group that's suspect in complicity (either through assistance or negligence).  "I did not have sex with that woman."  "Mobile weapons labs." "I am not a liar."

There are, I suspect, some bits of confusing information with a lot of the torch work that was going on there, but I'm figuring that some of the more knowlegable people wouldn't likely confuse torch cutting activities or hot metal with molten metal.

Fri, 02/14/2014 - 01:29 | 4435507 pondview28
pondview28's picture

Finally, someone gets it. 9/11 conspiracy theorists are like moon landing deniers and believers in close encounters. Evidence. Evidence. Evidence. Looks funny to you means you probably don't understand what happened. You want to believe and could care less that there is no actual evidence of your speculations. Once again - looks funny to you means you don't understand what happened.
Thanks for bringing some levity to this topic Moneybots.

Sun, 02/16/2014 - 05:44 | 4441678 russwinter
russwinter's picture

I'll tell you what looks funny: your grammer.   Tel Aviv needs to improve the English of these psy-ops and bring in more native American Zionists. Must be a big bounty for those, no? Pondview28 is not fluent enough for this task, reads as gibberish and the second team. Moneybots is a little better, but not by much: note his incorrect usage of was and were.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 02:13 | 4438932 Seer
Seer's picture

Member for 23 weeks.  It's not too late to renounce...

Fri, 02/14/2014 - 06:10 | 4435776 AurorusBorealus
AurorusBorealus's picture

Quite the contrary.  There is a mountain of evidence to support that those buildings were brought down by controlled demolition including: the rate of fall, indicating little supporting structure underneath, the manner of collapse into their own footprints, thousands of eyewitness accounts of secondary explosions throughout the buildings, UL studies that fire could not have weakened the structure sufficiently, the undeniable existence of molten steel in all three buildings, chemical tests proving that the rubble contained nano-thermite (supporting by the inexplicable, that is inexplicable without nano-thermite, sulphurization of the steel girders).  What there is no evidence of is that the buildings collapsed as part of a "pancake process" or that building 7 collapsed as a result of 1 column giving way owing to thermal "expansion," except, of course, the computer models of NIST, which have never been peer-reviewed or shared with anyone outside of NIST, in complete violation of all scientific practice.  So do not hide behind "science" when all the research done by independent investigations has followed the best practices of science and NIST followed none of the best practices of science... NONE... get that.

Sat, 02/15/2014 - 02:17 | 4438938 Seer
Seer's picture

"What there is no evidence of is that the buildings collapsed as part of a "pancake process" or that building 7 collapsed as a result of 1 column giving way owing to thermal "expansion," except, of course, the computer models of NIST, which have never been peer-reviewed or shared with anyone outside of NIST, in complete violation of all scientific practice. "

Actually, NIST packpeddled on the pancake thing: http://www.nist.gov/el/disasterstudies/wtc/faqs_wtctowers.cfm (they decided that the core columns turned inward and dragged things down, which still doesn't account for the speed issue [like I'd mentioned before, bending steel can't move as fast as melting steel]).

Fri, 02/14/2014 - 06:53 | 4435764 janus
janus's picture

dipshit is the word that comes to mind. 

amend your avatar and name to reflect this...janus demands it! (that was an exclamation point, dipshit!)

edit*** sometimes the post arrangement gets befuddled here at the Hedge, and something's run amok in this case...and in this case, i'm directing the "dipshit" advice to the one who is most evidently a dipshit first-class, pondscum23.  aurora borealus is a-okay.  

so, just so we're clear: pondscum23 = dipshit.  AB = Good American. 

any questions?

janus

Fri, 02/14/2014 - 00:10 | 4435294 moneybots
moneybots's picture

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tw4_-4xGuHA

 

Where in this video was there photography of molten steel in the rubble?

 

The shower of sparks shown in the background were falling from above as debris was being cut, and were caused  by the clean up work, not molten steel debris.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 23:27 | 4435189 moneybots
moneybots's picture

"You're right ... oh, wait:

 

Sooooo, show me the molten steel.  Shouldn't be a problem, if there was any.

 

"An Occupational Safety and Health Administration Officer at the Trade Center reported
a fire truck 10 feet below the ground that was still burning two weeks
after the Tower collapsed, “its metal so hot that it looked like a vat
of molten steel“ "

 

Soooooooooo, where are the photographs of it?   What on a fire truck burns for two weeks?

 

 

Fri, 02/14/2014 - 00:00 | 4435271 Son of Captain Nemo
Thu, 02/13/2014 - 23:03 | 4435133 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Col. Jessep: You want answers?

Kaffee: I think I'm entitled to.

Col. Jessep: *You want answers?*

Kaffee: *I want the truth!*

Col. Jessep: *You can't handle the truth!*

[pauses]

Col. Jessep: Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinburg? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago, and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to.

Kaffee: Did you order the Code Red?

Col. Jessep: I did the job I...

Kaffee: *Did you order the Code Red?*

Col. Jessep: *You're Goddamn right I did!*

Source IMDB

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 22:48 | 4435087 Son of Captain Nemo
Son of Captain Nemo's picture

moneybots

By far you are the worst "observer" that the Israeli Government has on this detail.  Sure hope you're not one of the five that was dancing on the Jersey side when the first tower fell.

Just so we are straight on this issue again.

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/moltensteel.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPsK0sDEjro

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 23:47 | 4435225 moneybots
moneybots's picture

"moneybots

By far you are the worst "observer" that the Israeli Government has on this detail.  Sure hope you're not one of the five that was dancing on the Jersey side when the first tower fell.

Just so we are straight on this issue again."

 

I observe just fine.  Show me the photos of molten steel, during or after.

 

 

Fri, 02/14/2014 - 18:32 | 4437872 Sweet Chicken
Sweet Chicken's picture

LOL PWNED

Fri, 02/14/2014 - 17:28 | 4437691 KnightTakesKing
KnightTakesKing's picture

So what is the working hypothesis that would allow for molten steel five months after 9-11? What could have kept the heat going so long?

Fri, 02/14/2014 - 18:35 | 4437886 Son of Captain Nemo
Son of Captain Nemo's picture

Excellent question(s).  Maybe this will help.

http://911blogger.com/node/21695

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UWr25QnkSc

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 22:53 | 4435109 Son of Captain Nemo
Son of Captain Nemo's picture

NYDS among others.

Thanks for mentioning the molten steel up here.  We actually posted at the exact same time (see my reference below)

Must be good luck G.W.!

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 22:52 | 4435097 Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

We need to get this out on facebook and twitter, these people need to know that no building is safe, not even a two story.

Who knew? Had no planes hit the building, it would have still collapsed on 9/11.

Always thought the "fire experts" were a little off when some were saying the beams melted. The entire thing was televised on live TV, and not one single "molten" steel beam was found.

 

OMG, what about frozen steel beams??? That's worse right?

Yeah, see? All those mayors haven't said a word about it. 

 

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