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Are Millions of Business People At Risk of Dying In Collapsing Buildings?
This is one in a series of safety-related public service announcements.
Death Traps?
Millions of people work in or visit high-rise buildings … assuming the buildings were more or less safe.
But it turns out that there is a severe, lethal risk of sudden collapse in even the best-made skyscrapers in America, Britain, Germany, Japan and other nations worldwide.
A New Understanding
Before 9/11, no modern steel-frame high-rise building had ever collapsed due to fire.
9/11 radically changed our understanding of architecture and engineering …
Specifically, 3 steel-frame buildings collapsed on that day. That includes one that was never hit by a plane, and had only small, isolated office fires prior to its collapse.
This was unexpected, as much hotter, longer-lasting fires have never before brought down a modern steel-frame office building. For example, the 2005 Madrid skyscraper fire “reached 800 degrees Celsius (1,472 F), said Javier Sanz, head of Madrid firefighter” and lasted some 20 hours without collapsing.
In other words, officials who write building codes, architects and structural engineers had never before worried about small office fires causing office buildings from collapsing.
Appendix A of the Federal Emergency Management Agency’s World Trade Center Building Performance Study notes:
In the case of the fire at One Meridian Plaza, the fire burned uncontrolled for the first 11 hours and lasted 19 hours. Contents from nine floors were completely consumed in the fire. In addition to these experiences in fire incidents, as a result of the Broadgate fire, British Steel and the Building Research Establishment performed a series of six experiments at Cordington in the mid-1990s to investigate the behavior of steel frame buildings. These experiments were conducted in a simulated, eight-story building. Secondary steel beams were not protected. Despite the temperature of the steel beam reaching 800-900 °C (1,500-1,700 °F) in three tests (well above the traditionally assumed critical temperature of 600 °C [1,100 °F]), no collapse was observed in any of the six experiments.
Underwriters Laboratories tested the steel components at the Twin Towers and found they could withstand fires for hours without failure:
“NIST [the government agency - National Institute of Standards and Technology, a branch of the Department of Commerce - responsible for investigating the collapse of the 3 buildings on 9/11] contracted with Underwriters Laboratories, Inc. to conduct tests to obtain information on the fire endurance of trusses like those in the WTC towers…. All four test specimens sustained the maximum design load for approximately 2 hours without collapsing… The Investigation Team was cautious about using these results directly in the formulation of collapse hypotheses. In addition to the scaling issues raised by the test results, the fires in the towers on September 11, and the resulting exposure of the floor systems, were substantially different from the conditions in the test furnaces. Nonetheless, the [empirical test] results established that this type of assembly was capable of sustaining a large gravity load, without collapsing, for a substantial period of time relative to the duration of the fires in any given location on September 11.” (NIST, 2005, p. 140).
Other fire tests have also failed to cause failures at high temperatures.
So the collapse of World Trade Center Building 7 on 9/11 (not hit by a plane) was a surprise … and should be a huge concern to the millions of people who work in office buildings worldwide.
To get to the bottom of this issue, Washington’s Blog reached out to a former manager at Underwriters Laboratories – Kevin Ryan – to seek reassurance that the danger was small for the millions of financial services industry workers, business men, lawyers, web executives, and others who work in office buildings:
[Question] Wasn’t the steel used in the Twin Towers and Building 7 of inferior quality? So as long as builders use better-quality steel, can’t we be assured of safety?
[Kevin Ryan] The steel used to build WTC Building 7 was the standard grade for high-rise construction–still used to this day–called ASTM A36 grade steel. It was not inferior in any way from the steel used to make many of the other high-rise buildings in America.
For the Twin Towers, fourteen different grades of steel were used in the construction, including A36, which has a nominal strength of 36 ksi. The other grades used were higher strength steels like 100 ksi WEL-TEN steel which was manufactured in Japan and shipped to the States. The steel used in the Towers was actually far superior to typical structural steel.
The official government reports on the destruction of the WTC buildings did not find any problem with the quality of the materials or construction methods used. And although those reports did make some recommendations for changes to building codes, those changes have not been incorporated in municipal codes or adopted by the building construction community.
[Question] You write in Foreign Policy Journal:
“And if people actually understood and believed the official account of what happened at the WTC they would not enter tall buildings because in doing so they would be putting their lives at risk.”
What do you mean?
[Ryan] What I mean is that high-rise buildings are designed and constructed to withstand fires that are much worse than what we know existed in WTC Building 7. My former company, Underwriters Laboratories (UL), plays a big part in that process. We know that UL did the fire resistance testing that was behind the selection of the steel components for WTC7 because that fact is in the NIST WTC7 report. Therefore the steel columns and floor assemblies should have withstood 2 to 3 hours of intense fire in a testing furnace, as required by the NYC code. But on 9/11, the fire lasted only 20 minutes in any given area, a fact that NIST admits, and the entire structure was destroyed due to an inexplicable failure to resist fire.
Moreover, NIST abandoned its previous hypotheses that suggested the destruction of WTC7 might have resulted from diesel fuel fires, or damage from falling debris, or the design of the building. In the end, NIST said that it was only the effects of the fire fed by office furnishings, on fully-fireproofed steel components, that caused the total destruction of this 47-story building. And since no actions have been taken to retrofit any existing high-rise buildings, we must assume that what happened to WTC7, according to the official account, could happen to any tall building that experiences a typical office fire.
No Change (?!)
Given that 9/11 totally changed our understanding of how dangerous small office fires could be, we couldn’t believe Ryan’s claim that “changes have not been incorporated in municipal codes or adopted by the building construction community.”
So Washington’s Blog contacted Richard Gage, a practicing architect for more than two decades, who has worked on most types of building construction, including one project which used around 1,200 tons of steel framing:
[Question] Have high-rise architects and engineers changed how they build skyscrapers, to prevent collapses after 9/11?
And have they changed how they build skyscrapers to prevent office fires from knocking down steel buildings?
[Richard Gage] No – they haven’t made any structural changes.
No structural changes?!
Either building code writers, architects and engineers are cavalierly ignoring this catastrophic new understanding of the extreme danger of small office fires, or the investigation into the collapse of World Trade Center building 7 on 9/11 was flawed.
No wonder New York residents have launched a High Rise Safety Initiative to try to protect the safety of those who work or visit office buildings.
Postscript: Until this issue is resolved through a complete revision of building codes and architectural and engineering practices, we recommend that everyone stay out of office buildings. Because if even small office fires can cause the whole building to collapse, it’s just not worth the risk to go inside.
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And the biggest threat is people's ignorance, their inability to connect an argument to the actual discussion/debate.
You forgot to look up.
Yet they found passports in the same rubble! Oh, but not black boxes.
Anyone who won't consider that 9/11 was an inside job has the nievite of a 5 year old.
I think that award goes to 'moneybots' & friends.
Exactly. And since this topic always seems to bring out the most extreme trolls, it shows how important the 9/11 mythos is to the American psyche.
"...bring out the most extreme trolls..."
Look in the mirror without your stupid glasses.
Go on over to Jim Quinn @ his blog and do some tea bagging with those 9/11MORONs.
Zh is way beyond your minor league bullshit.
Huh????!!!!
LOL. This topic is well beyond your ability to even begin to comprehend. I'd recommend borrowing money from someone and buying her book. You'll make less of an ass out of yourself if this topic is ever presented to you again.
Wood's thesis is unpersuasive scientifically.
Just total made up bullshit to provide MORONs like you with some shit stained ammo to try and use on public forums.
A GATEKEEPER!
It has been addressed by Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth, and anyone can learn of the rebuttals at Journal of 9/11 Studies.
Judy Wood is a disinformation specialist working for the government.
This is probably correct, although she could just be a bad scientist and another 9/11MORON.
Her thesis is without scientific merit, in contrast to that of people like Richard Gage, Steven Jones, and the many others in Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth who assert the Twin Towers were destroyed via explosive demolition.
DavidPierre, I have commented on that topic towards the current end of replies to this article.
My final challenge to you. Have you read her book? Or do you just pickoff talking points handed to you? Perhaps you need to go back to your handlers and get some more updated talking points?
Since you seem incapable of answering direct questions, I am finished with you. Go back to watching teevee....
"Since you seem incapable of answering direct questions"
Energy is precious. Perhaps he's just being prudent...
You're sales pitch just ain't working here. Maybe it's not a good use of your energy to try and ram it down folks's throats?
Most people can look at both arguments and not be able to decide. They will naturally lean toward what the authorities say. That doesn't automatically make them wrong.
What we need to do is the science version of giving two enemies butcher knives before locking them in a closet. The key is to force a face off in a public forum to determine once and for all the truth. Short of that all you have is he said, she said scientists.
"Most people can look at both arguments and not be able to decide. They will naturally lean toward what the authorities say. That doesn't automatically make them wrong. "
Um, it's about the ARGUMENTS- it's the MESSAGE. Anyone who carries a false message is ignorant, dishonest or stupid. If they knowingly carry that false message then it's even worse than just being wrong.
Dick Cheney told the AF to "Stand down!" - and that is Congressional testimony (the AF and NORAD had 45 minutes to scramble jets). "Hijackers" who flew planes in patterns not even AF pilots can do with only a few months training, freefall collapse of the buildings hit, freefall collapse of a building that wasn't hit, yeah, I mean, come on, people need to open their minds.
"Hijackers" who flew planes in patterns not even AF pilots can do"
If Air Force pilots could not fly planes in patterns, the hijacked planes could not have been flown in those patterns, so obviously who ever is saying that Air Froce pilots could not fly those patterns is speaking a lie.
- From the movie Zero, a quote from an AF pilot, refering to the missile that hit the Pentagon
The movie was shown to the EU by a Japanese diplomat. A diplomat who was in their government like our Speaker of the House.
"I could fly that pattern 1 in 20 times".
- From the movie Zero, a quote from an AF pilot, refering to the missile that hit the Pentagon
The movie was shown to the EU by a Japanese diplomat. A diplomat who was in their government like our Speaker of the House."
No missile hit The Pentagon.
I have gone to military air shows and they flew patterns beyond what the hijacked airliners did.
Are they flying those patterns in HUGE commercial airliners? (I don't go to air shows, so I really don't know [though I suspect the answer is "no")
"I have gone to military air shows and they flew patterns beyond what the hijacked airliners did."
Sounds like a borning air show - military pilots flying commercial passenger planes?
The air shows near me fly high performance military jets when showing what they can do. We go to the airport for free if we want to watch 747's fly around in circles.
Maybe all planes perform the same once they are in the air - i'm not a pilot so i can't speculate on that - but if that's the case i wonder why they spend so much money designing different kinds of planes when they all perform the same way?
"I have gone to military air shows and they flew patterns beyond what the hijacked airliners did."
Sounds like a borning air show - military pilots flying commercial passenger planes?
The air shows near me fly high performance military jets when showing what they can do. We go to the airport for free if we want to watch 747's fly around in circles.
Maybe all planes perform the same once they are in the air - i'm not a pilot so i can't speculate on that - but if that's the case i wonder why they spend so much money designing different kinds of planes when they all perform the same way?"
There wasn't anything that fancy about what the jetliners did. All Atta did was turn the jet to the south. Flight 175 was videoed as it approached 2 World Trade and it wasn't doing anything impossibly difficult.
Flight 77 made some kind of a "corkscrew" decending turn to approach The Pentagon, which would have been the most unusual maneuver any of the hijacked planes made.
"There wasn't anything that fancy about what the jetliners did. All Atta did was turn the jet to the south. Flight 175 was videoed as it approached 2 World Trade and it wasn't doing anything impossibly difficult."
By someone who has no experience behind the stick of a commerical airliner?
OK, fine, call him lucky, but then there's the others... And, just where the fuck was the nation's air defenses when there were non-responding, clearlyh hijacked aircraft heading toward heavily populated areas?
It's like this, there are FAR too many coincidences that, as computations of probabilities go, would suggest that the "suggested" story is pretty much mathematically close to impossible. BUT, we're not allowed to really bring all of this to any real investigative front because, well, "national security" and all...
Oh, and they couldn't possibly have thought that something like this could happen! (even though drills for it had been occuring at the very instance, and had been gamed many times in previous years)
The definitive 9/11 book is Where Did The Towers Go by Dr. Judy Wood. All else is the work of amateurs.
Folks... the middle east was moving away from the dollar as the exchange currency for oil. This is what Iran is doing today. This is why the ponzi is ending. 911 was to get political support for installing western goverments. Also the reason real enervy technologies are supressed. That game is over. Water powered car anyone? Google Stanley Meyer.
You were fine until: "Also the reason real enervy technologies are supressed."
Yes, it's about POWER, just not that kind. Even with "real energy technologies" ["technology" is a PROCESS BTW- it's NOT matter itself] there's the issue of being unable to continue with the perpetua-growth-on-a-finite-planet ponzi that has allowed TPTB to rule over us for oh-so-long.
For sure, it's desperation time in this here game...
Judy Wood... Right!!!
Pure... unadulterated disinformation bullshit.
Magic Ray machines not even invented yet!
Take off the stupid glasses MORON you've been hanging around ZH for how long?
Still an IDIOT who has learned nothing.
Ok clown. Have you read it? Can you afford it?
While 'David P's' response may be rough around the edge, he's correct I-QE.
Dr. Jones was provided with the material samples from the Trade Towers and it was nanothermite that was discovered in those samples.
The other claims have been used to discredit the Bentham science journal. Not accusing you of anything or that you are deliberately misleading but these are the "facts".
But have YOU read the work? Nanothermite will not turn steel to dust, period.
Stevens and Harrit never said that it did or that it didn't. It was a very sophisticated version produced with very unique 'military' standards.
This is why they were more than likely so quick to move the evidence out of Ground Zero for "reprocessing" when the Chinese and Indian governments gave the "nod" to help the U.S. government dispose of it.
The problem is that there should have been mountains and mountains of steel and debris but no, there was some of course, but most was turned to dust. Even firefighters have been documented in saying they found no desks, no phones, nothing on a scale as it should have been if the building was `collapsed'.
Ah perhaps you are speaking to this. Which NIST and the 9/11 Commission knew nothing about either until more than 2 years later.
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/moltensteel.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPsK0sDEjro
The nano-thermite evidence in the dust is compelling evidence. However, how can "they" install upwards of hundreds of tons of non-thermite without someone spilling the beans? You would need a very large crew of workers to install the explosives. Wouldn't these grunts ask questions?
Not saying it can't be done but, it's a difficult operation to pull off. I'm wondering if a new type of direct energy weapon is a more plausable arguement? Just asking the question...
"However, how can "they" install upwards of hundreds of tons of non-thermite without someone spilling the beans?"
Because they know where your familiy resides. And if you have no family you become disappeared.
Manahattan Project - think about how that was kept under wraps by That many people!
And be sure to toss in some massively patriotic angle, I'm sure that you'll agree to do the work and keep your mouth shut. And when it's all over, when you feel the urge to "speak out" you'll find that the propaganda campaign was so successful that if you should talk you will effect your own disappearance (people don't want to hear "conspiracy theories," there's a game on).
Confucious say:
12 seconds into this video, all fall down, not turn to dust?
The more one watches those videos, the stranger they look!
Some of the Central Core Columns are intact at 1:10 through 1:12 in that video.
What brought them down is obscured by Camera Angle and smoke.
Good video GW.
WTC7 looks like a classic demo. 1 and 2 don't.
Go to 1:45 of this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITa3SzTOY3k
Looks like a lot of dust and the building is being destroyed as it falls.
Not sure what your point is here GW. Have you found other buldings where steel and concrete turn to dust on the scale that occured then? And no, the weight impact would not do it since the top floors were photographed to have been turned into lava-like flows of dust on their way down.
http://drjudywood.com/articles/DEW/dewpics/GJS-WTC030c_original.jpg
http://drjudywood.com/articles/DEW/dewpics/Image126.jpg
Can you elaborate further on that one G.W.?
Lot's of dust and very large explosions which sent debris and "dust" several hundred feet into the air. Of course NIST refuses to this day to discuss those facts and the evidence that supports those facts, even with the FOIA videos that were never made a part of the official report but were released more than 2 years after the report was released by the Commission Panel.
Soco - I have a good friend who did camera work for Fox and was with the first camera crew to arrive at the WTC site that morning. Satellite connections were down but he tapped into a nearby store and got the live feed out. His partner delivered the tape that afternoon to Fox in mid-town.... Where it promptly vanished never to be seen again.
I myself was in Times Square after the first hit on my way to an appointment in WTC 7 but trying to assess what my next move should be. A young CNN reporter came up to me ( and I shit you not) asked me ( with a mike in my face) "should we invade Afganistan?" I promptly told her to get fuck out of my face and worry about the victims. She was scripted right from the start to spin the narrative. And this was before the second hit when it could still be considered an accident.
cro_maat
It's stories like yours that are so unbelievably important in getting to the truth. Because you were in it and you have friends "in the business" have those unique insights write a book, or collectively get together and collaborate. Your tale reminds me of the actor sniffing for work who found it that day. Who hired this guy? And why would anyone take a script like that (Agency or not), no matter how dire there situation may have been?
It's 13 years now and fear should never keep stories like that in the dark. Not after where we've been and where we are.
Made in China with two Russian crazed kids scale the worlds soon to be tallest building. Love that security.
From Opie and Anthony (funny)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&list=UUzb3awiPsR...
Thanks GW
Glad I could help!
The Empire State Bldg got hit by a WWII bomber and a fire and hardly had any damage. Still there after all those years. But it did not have a stupid design like the twin towers outer support thingys(technical term). Now Bldg 7 thats a whole different story. Just so happens alot of important paper was destroyed. HUM.
"Look folks, everyone is more than willing to leave out important details to make their claims more believable"
just like you did.....fires can turn bulidings into dust......DUST!!!! when's that ever happened before AND are you saying that is also because of how they were built??
WTF???
There was more than a pile of dust down there at the corner of Liberty and Vessey after 9-11. WTC 5 and 6 had beams literally draped over them. There was a staircase still standing at three stories high. What the hell are you talking about?
WACKO supreme.
If you understand that buildings 5 and 6 were hollowed out but not that* 7 was stacked in a neat pile, you've missed the point of this exercise.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sixzE02wRw
Sing Along Everybody!"What the hell are you talking about"
these are not my word bucko, a firefighter is on video saying, you didn't find a desk, you didn't find a chair, about all i found was part of a phone keypad"
call him names, not me. those are his words, not mine.