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I Don’t Know What’s Going On In Ukraine, But I Do Know One Thing: We Should STAY OUT OF IT
Most American mainstream media say that the Ukranian people rose up against a decadent dictator to chart their own destiny.
On the other hand, some knowledgeable commentators say that the Ukranian protests were really a violent coup initiated by the U.S., and carried out by Neo-Nazi factions within Ukraine.
People like Mark Ames argue that all sides have dirt on their hands.
Still others – like Charles Hugh Smith – say that there are much deeper forces at work. Indeed, some argue this is really a war over natural gas (and see this and this).
At this point, I have no idea which of these explanations is correct, or whether some combination of these forces is playing out in the region.
But I do know one thing: we should stay the heck out of Ukraine.
After all:
- Ukraine is far away … on the other side of the world
- As neighbors with Russia – and a former part of the Soviet Union – Russia considers the Ukraine to be part of its national security interest
- Russia is a nuclear power
Moreover, I want to stay out of another war for very practical reasons:
- War is horrible for our economy
- “Humanitarian war” is a scam
This isn’t our fight … and the downside of getting involved are gigantic.
Bonus:
Are the American People FINALLY Starting to Stand Up to Those Who Are Trying to Take Away Our Liberties?
»
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No good idea to start trouble with Russia
http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/08/29/us-purchases-all-afghanis...
or this http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/national-security/a-logistics-mir...
or the Northern Distribution Network (NDN)
Lithuania together with Latvia and Estonia play an important role in the Northern Distribution Network (NDN). Established in 2008, the NDN is a strategic transportation corridor consisting of a 3,100-mile network of sea, road, and rail routes going through the Baltic States, Belarus, Russia, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan, and terminating in northern Afghanistan. Created as an alternative to the overloaded Pakistan Ground Line of Communication, the NDN’s main goals are to support
https://www.cimicweb.org/cmo/afg/Documents/Security/130614%20-%20CFC_Log...
In short USA needs Russia in order not to leave Afghanistan in the same style as it happened in Vietnam. As long as the US and the UK are engaged in Afghanistan they need Russia. But when leaving Afghanistan and Pakistan these countries are going to be part of the Russia/China/India economic zone
http://thediplomat.com/2014/02/india-drawn-to-the-shanghai-cooperation-o...
The EU bankers are flat broke, foreclosures, bankruptcies and asset confiscations have already occurred and more are in the pipeline, evictions, unemployment with benefit losses are all coming to the EU along with Muslim rule, either that or they find some hard assets to leverage for a lil more time before the bailiff shows.
The EU is the bastard child of a NAZI/Soviet union.
Ukraine is up to their eyeballs in debt to Russia. I agree with Putin and his diplomacy. Fuck this bastard region ! U.S. and EU should stay out of this and the MSM should shut up about it !
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_Ukraine
Central Asia is one of the few places where 'americans' can still hope to expand. There are still resources there that 'americans' have not yet hogged.
'Americans' and their pretense to overcome the environment cant bypass central Asia. Or they are going down.
It is not a luxury choice because of this one, 'americans' have no choice. Either they go in central Asia or they go extinct.
Putin is bad news - but only in the "annoying" sense.
There is no going in to NATO countries for him as we have nukes. Its not clear his army would get that far conventionally
as Russian military is not that modern. Large enough for weak states like Ukrane but for EU countries - its a NO.
Economically, that would be like shooting Russia in the foot given the gas dependency.
EU wants Ukrane in the club, democratic, capitalist and stable but not at any price, and the relationship with Russia
is more important. States like Georgia amd Ukrane were part of the old USSR anyway so this is a net nil in the big picture.
This does have costs for Putin though - NATO is likely to get ramped up in the East, EU will be looking harder towards Russian Gas alternatives - there is Shale gas in EU countries and Russian Business is not likely to look well at Putin for what he is doing.
So yes - Putin "wins" this one as he "won" in Georgia - but it will cost more, and the next one will be costlier still or may be undoable.
As for US involvement - stay out. Putin is a flash in the pan so what ever he wins will get undone again over time. We just need to block him off for a bit longer.
If you heard it on tv its wrong.
That said this is one big as chain yank. From Nuland to the cops letting the rioters get away with all the crap they pulled. You think for one second on this and you must know its all just another chain yank. You thow one fire bomb at the LAPD and they would open fire just like the Chinese would. That was my first clue.
Yet here we are being presented with two bad choices as if they were the only options. Join the EU or return to Russia.
The other option I like is an independant Ukrain. They could simply play the middle man game on energies and make the EU and Russia thier biatch. Just turn off the pipelines and drive this clown car as they see fit. Turn off the gas and watch how fast they all change the tune.
TV only repeats what people tell them, which is the essence of journalism, but after a while you find your list of sources dwindling, then nobody believes you.
during the Rodney King riots in LA the police under Daryl Gates, stood back and allowed the looting to go on for days. ours is a country based on the right to commit a crime, any crime, what the russians are doing is meant to prevent trouble (we call it authoritarian). lately our law has been experimenting with such things, prior restraint laws, but they usually cause problems, like Zimmerman vs Martin, when we allow individuals to act in the prevention of crime.
this is why wall street is such a den of thieves, we hate laws which (stifle innovation) prevent financial crime, the fed would rather mop up afterward. this is the essence of capitalism, so when someone says the Chinese are capitalists, you know they aren't. they actually punish people for financial crime.
anyway sitting in the middle a tug of war between the EU and Moscow, is not going to allow Ukraine to be independent. they fight wars over religion, ideology, but economics? well what the OWS movement after all, a bunch of Austrians going head to head with the Keynesians.
ours is a country based on the right to commit a crime, any crime, what the russians are doing is meant to prevent trouble (we call it authoritarian).
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Sure, sure. 'Americans' have that knack to fabricate fantasy.
'Americans' are extremelly adept at moving preemptively. They are making wars on preemptive motives, everywhere, anytime.
Probably some too brutal pieces of reality here.
Putin's move is a desesperate move. The Russians were so late to the 'american' efforts in Ukraine they let it happen, even if they knew beforehand.
Their invasion of Crimea is their ultimate gamble, the russians know they are forced to relinquish Ukraine to 'americans' and all they can hope is the postponement of 'americans' grabbing Crimea.
'Americans' know very well that Putin and Russia lost all credit to the population in Ukraine.
Putin has justified his intervention by putting forward the will to protect russian connected people in Ukraine and he moved troops in Crimea.
The sheer reality is that people who are in danger are not located in Crimea. People who are hunted down by nazis are located in the Western part of Ukraine. In order to protect them, Putin should have deployed troops in the Western part, where the threats are actual.
All those people wont forget how Putin left them on their bums. They will either move to Crimea or Russia (the ethnical cleansing as wished by 'americans') or stay on, keeping a low profile, reducing much Russia's influence on Ukraine.
'Americans' are thieves at heart, and thieves are obsessed with one thing: protecting the loot they've stolen.
Always a high demand from thieves for security.
'Americans', as the biggest thieves in all times, issue a big demand on security means.
Ah, yes, Russians are trying to up their games, by developing some civilian armed movements, the ones 'americans' relish on, the militia types.
Problem: 'americans' have been funded for decades now the nazi militias in Ukraine, they've trained them and this allows the coup to be made, as 'american' governments pressured the legitimate ukrainian government in not using the level of forces that was required to subdue militias drilled in urban warfare. Hint: maybe US Americans let rioters, who were unprepared, run the show for a couple of days, but in the end, the proper level of forces was applied.
"I dont know what's going on in Ukraine but we should stay out of it"
HELLO!! WE STARTED IT!!
HOLY MOTHER OF MARY, WAKE THE F__K UP!!
Is the US so god-like that it actually thought Russia would not go in? How could you be this stupid?
1. Assuming they knew Russia would react what would be the plans for after? Slip them the dick elsewhere?
2. They really are stupid. And have no plans other than taking over the world and were blindsided by greed? This would be the choice that would just really be funny as hell.
3. It was a calculated 'gamble' and one easily paid for by unlimited digital zeros maybe we'll get lucky even though it's only about 2% in favor a paltry $5 billion is chump change we can always cut that out of entitlement programs although we'll still transfer zero's anyways it just won't show up on the books.
We sure as hell should stay out of the Ukraine, and if we had done this previously we would be $5 Billion less in debt and there would probably be no problem right now. At least not this one.
The "foreign policy" of the U.S. has turned into the Oligarch's wet dream of a one-world government, with the 1/10th of 1% richest folks controlling the world and the rest of us playing debt serf or worse.
The U.S. Foreign policy should be to stay the hell out of other countries internal affairs, period. We the people have been lied to and shit on so many times by our "elected leaders" that we can no longer trust their deeds or words, and until that faith is restored we should end any further bloodshed.
Personally I don't think we'll get to that point until we look back to the Bush admin and round the bunch up for a trial. Treat them like our government treated Bradley/Chelsea Manning.
I'm sick of this shit!
Kinda scary isn't it.
Makes you realize "we're already over there and in it."
The "Lines of Control" have already been crossed.
You never how these things go but I expect some really tight and explosive fighting in the Streets and "housing complexes" as even though Russia is a vast empty Space that isn't true of Ukraine.
This will present more than just a problem to Russia as if "gangs" lose they might get drawn into urban warfare here. So far all we know is no one knows why any of us are there (although I sure have more than an idea or two. Aren't we in fact/intact and escalating here?) but "THERE" we are.
George
I think you used the wrong term
"Stay the heck out of it"
You should be saying
"Let us get the helll out of here"
Victoria (the Empress) Nuland has already confirmed that approx $5 billion of those fuuny notes were used to destablize Ukraine
probably not much diplomacy could have done here...but not stating to the world "an entire peaceful order that has existed for seventy years...and in the case of Russia and the US peaceful relations that stretch back literally forever" are on the line. No one has said this.
Instead it is "we stand with you"...meaning the protesters...and not "with you"...people of Kiev Rus. That would be a warning to all sides...pipe the Phuck down or millions will die and "not a single nuke will have fired."
That's a naive view. It may or may not be something to "get involved" in, but shouldn't you know what's going on before you form an opinion? Impersonating an ostrich is no less foolish than going in guns blazing, perhaps even more so. Chess, much like politics, is played 5 - 6 moves in advanced (and sometimes more). Saying you play 0 moves ahead isn't too bright.
All I can say is "dittoes," George.
I would hate to see the US get any more involved in Ukraine than we already are.
BUT, agreements we are party to seem to require some response.
Ukraine handed over their nukes in '97 after agreements with NATO. I'm not real comfortable about reneging on our responsibilities.
It's a sad state of affairs, that's for sure. jm2c
Would any of the four down-voters care to expound?
I say apply pressure financially on those bastards.
Sure
"pressure financially"
Keep your printing weapon working overtime.
Who needs nukes etc.
Dont press the button. Use the printing press
What bastards? The EU shysters who subverted a legitimate government in Ukraine which led to it's toppling by "protesters"?
You are an idiot ! It was the U.S. Shysters who set the ball rolling. Dick !
George your articles are always so informative generally among the best material that I see on zh. Its a shame that the medium is so transitory. I wish that you and zh could add a wiki like feature that would alway you to accumulate some of your body of work in a way that it developes and evolves and acts as a point of reference. Some topics that i wolud find helpful is how to reco the tactics of centralized control of our perception of everything around us and how to recognize it and to some extent counter it and maintain perspective and sanity when everything around you is noise and disinformation. The other one would be centralized control of the economy and of currecy in the west over the last 200 years. I suspect there are some good books but i like to see the info in the context of the forum
That's what GW's own blog site basically does. ;-)
Please add your support to this petition at Whitehouse.gov, to Keep the U.S. Out of Ukraine. Please also forward the link, or add it to your social media outlets. Once the petition has 150 endorsements, it will be posted on the Whitehouse.gov website for others to endorse.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/stay-out-ukraine/ZBPTKbtb " target="_blank">https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/stay-out-ukraine/ZBPTKbtb
Whether gas of some other force is at play is moot, this is a strategic matter for Russia, and those trump everything else. Strategic conflict is just a fancy way of saying that life or death of the state is in play, and in that situation, kill-or-be-killed becomes the operative mode of big power interactions.
This may not be the 'cold war', but Russia's strategic buffers are much more frangible than then, and the very notion that Russia would allow a knife to be pointed at its rib cage is of course unacceptable, and unstable and will not be permitted. At best Kiev's putative govt is toying with total annihilation.
Yeah, we have to stay out, even at the covert level.
That sort of logic, although valid in as far as it is stated, is a serious problem, but also for countries like Japan and Australia. It means the US is unreliable. I personally have never doubted that this would be so, unless the US stance was full-on serious about and committed to M.A.D., and no one actually wanted that anyway.
But of course it isn't, and wasn't, Kennedy showed the US will climb-down when directly challenged at the strategic nuclear level.
We all noticed this, and despite it, we were all relieved, but this did not change anything, the imperative then was to get nukes as well as you could make a major power climb down. And in 1965 Australia began operating a secret uranium enrichment program, and there were four of these programs operating over the next 35 years.
So the US then offered if Nuclear umbrella concept, which you also above pointed out does not work in the real situation. But that was just the bait offered to get countries to sign and ratify the NPT.
The NPT has failed. The US and Australia are both supplying India with Uranium and nuclear technology and India flat-out refused to sign the NPT. So it's finished, everyone can see that, and even the US does not even try to prop it up any more, but instead completely undermines it.
The US got Australia to sign and finally ratify it in 1973 by offering strategic assurances, but the Govt made it clear to the US that Australia would not be signing until it was entirely able to arm Australia with nuclear weapons in the event that the NPT failed, and everyone in Policy, science, strategic analysis, covert agencies and military commanders said the NPT would inevitably fail. So Canberra made sure it had already created or otherwise obtained every thing needed to go nuclear, before signing the NPT, in anticipation that the NPT would fail. Apparently within a short time of ratifying it Australia began to operate a new more advanced secret centrifuge program, which was replaced by two secret laser enrichment programs in 1986, one which was privatized and bought out into the light in 1998 as a proposed commercial venture (SILEX), and the other even more secretive one which we know was run entirely by the govt, which went dark and disappeared from about late-1993. Canberra allowed this Laser enrichment tech to become public light as a considered strategic signal in response to French, Chinese and Indian and Pakistani nuclear testing in the region, during the mid-1990s. At that point the testing all stopped, as the US agreed to halt testing, until the DPRK started again.
Apparently Japan did much the same thing as Canberra, they currently have 300 kilos of weapon-grade plutonium, and we know it is, because the US gave it to them for 'research'. The Japanese understood this was not a secret temporary loan but a permanent strategic gift that went beyond a mere umbrella assurance.
The US thus deliberately breached the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty - and enough to potentially produce ~400 A-bombs.
http://ex-skf.blogspot.com.au/2014/02/chinese-government-demands-japan-t...
And that is only coming to light now, as a deliberate and considered US and Japanese signal to China, that if it goes to war with Japan, it faces the real possibility of a devastating large-scale nuclear strike. It is likewise a message to Russia and DPRK.
So how many other similar secret breaches of the NPT occurred, with the US, not to mention with the other nuclear powers? Numerous I would say. We know about Pakistan's Khan as well, and we know Israel was assisting South Africa.
So, when your superpower ally supplies a strategic assurance but "is far away … on the other side of the world", and not only has the NPT observably failed, and not only has one of the major proponents of it flagrantly breached it, but we have had seven nuclear powers during the past two decades who strongly threatened, bombarded and or invaded other non-nuclear armed states.
And now Russia is on the move and they will continue to move, and China is beginning to voice regional strategic threats openly.
So all those middle-power states, that do have the capacity to produce nuclear weapons are busy quietly doing so, in secret, and obtaining advanced missiles, attack aircraft, drones, comms, satellite relays, and new sub fleets and underwater drones that will quickly allow them to make even a major power think again.
So the genie is out of the bottle. It is not possible to construct and maintain a viable convincing argument against obtaining basic nuclear deterrent capability for such middle powers any longer.
For one thing, the US will only assuredly come to your aid if you HAVE a nuclear deterrent, not if you don't have one, because if it then does not come to support you then it will have to deal with the after math, and will not be able to avoid a nuclear conflict.
Which means the US and other major powers will not dare to use your country as a front-line expendable pawn any more, as they can't possibly afford for that to happen.
So all the strategic defense argument's weight clearly falls behind the necessity for middle powers front-line states to develop nuclear weapons and to quietly communicate this reality to any threatening or aggressive power and to allies, so they BOTH don't miscalculate their strategic equation.
And given the West can not and will not do anything to supply a strategic defense to Ukraine, this is a strong GO signal to expand the number of states with at least A-bomb capability. And that will rapidly turn into boosted A-bombs, with yields between 40 and 80 kilotons.
Unfortunately things just got a lot more unstable.
And meddling, as in Ukraine, is what has done it.
gah, I just noticed this:
"The US thus deliberately breached the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty - and enough to potentially produce ~400 A-bombs."
That should have been ~40 A-bombs ... slight difference.
Very sensible comment, element!
(Again, it makes me wonder what kinds of trolls are so quickly down voting almost every comment made on this article?)
Anyway, while I agreed with everything you wrote about "things just got a lot more unstable," I repeat my view that is was primarily the international banksters, through their tools and fools, "meddling, as in Ukraine, is what has done it."
For several decades, since I was a young teenager that first realized that the world I was growing up in was engaged in exponential growth, backed by weapons of mass destruction, I have been thinking about these problems, only to keep on coming back to the conclusion that we are stuck in that insane rut, and apparently can not get out of it.
In my opinion, one of the reasons why the Search For ExtraTerrestrial Intelligence has drawn a blank so far is that probably every society that develops enough science and technology to make weapons of mass destruction ends up destroying itself. The same sets of imperatives for short-term survival would over and over drive civilizations to commit collective suicide like that on planet Earth is preparing to do. Nothing about the longer term consequences regarding building more weapons of mass destruction is able to stop the short-term imperatives for doing so. THE MAIN CHARACTERISTIC OF OUR CIVILIZATION IS EVIL DELIBERATE IGNORANCE, WITH REGARD TO ALL OF OUR TECHNOLOGIES, AND MOST OF ALL WITH REGARD TO OUR WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION.
After all, nuclear weapons were only the leading edge of weapons of mass destruction, which now includes biological weapons, and possible nanoweapons, etc.! Just about all of the worst science fiction nightmares are becoming facts, while none of the other better alternatives appear to have a chance to develop, since the history of military imperatives continues to dominate what civilization actually does! Quite the paradox that intelligent strategic decisions finally drive the stupidest possible overall strategy for us all to be the one implemented!
I have an alternate thesis, that the space-aliens think we're complete jerks and ignore us. Think about it, is this not vastly more likely, given what we observe, and given the numbers of stars involved? :D
@Element
Do you know if the Russians still have the old artillery launched low yield nukes?
I hope you are right, element!
... Obviously, I do not know...
Russia's geopolitical strategy is this: Strategic Depth.
Ukraine is enormous, think the entire US midwest, just as flat and filled with modest rivers. Russia has no large mountains between it and the rest of Eurasia, no double ocean like the US does, no isthmuses to use as choke points.
Their only security on a strategic level is vast stretches of landmass (and General Winter).
The Ukraine was a part of the Soviet Union. Since the "break-up" the Ukraine played it's importance up as if it were a legitamate "player" which it is not, by flexing the only thing it has, pipelines running through it. By repeatedly extorting the russians ( Gas deliveries to EU). Finally the Russians are taking action against this novice pretender of a "nation". Putin should take over the whole piece of shit!
What is happening in the Ukraine appears to me to be merely another aspect of the global agenda of the international banksters. The big problem in the background is the struggle between those puppet governments which already have central banks directed by the international banksters, versus those who do not. The smaller states that did not have central banks, and were not integrated into the international banksters' global domination, have already been on the list of countries to be destroyed by those bigger countries which already have effectively privatized central banks. What is left are the BIG BATTLE LINES between those countries which still have some public control over their central banks, versus countries whose central banks are effectively controlled by the international banksters.
In my view, the vast majority of people in NATO countries do not have a clue about what is really happening, because they have been too effectively brainwashed to take for granted, without critical thought, the ways that the international banksters were able to gain control over the British Empire, and then the American governments, and by playing all sides behind the scenes (by domination of the funding of all sides), have provoked and steered every civil conflict and war towards the end goals of the international banksters. In my view, it is painfully obvious that the Anglo-American (Zionist) empire, which is under the control of the international banksters, and which extends its effective control throughout all NATO countries, is playing a long, and increasingly insane, political game, to try to consolidate their globalized systems of being able to make the public money supplies out of nothing, as debts, to thereby symbolically control all of the world's natural resources.
The international banksters are collectively a group of trillionaire mass murderers, who systematically play all sides against each other, by directing the flows of funds to those sides, thereby jockeying them to relative success or failure over the medium term. (In the longer term, they all tend to lose to the banksters in the end.) The international banksters have already succeeded in making almost all dominant politicians in NATO countries become their puppets, while the vast majority of people in those countries have been reduced by their schooling and mass media to become muppets, manipulated to perceive the world in the ways that the international banksters want them to perceive the world.
That is the overview that I regard the Ukrainian events through. The tools of the international banksters paid for the protests in the Ukraine to develop. (Of course, there were legitimate grievances, however, those are things which the banksters exploit to advance their strategy.) All governments are necessarily based on the methods of organized crime, while most governments are now effectively controlled by the best organized gang of criminals, the international banksters. Therefore, of course, the previous government of the Ukraine was seriously corrupt. However, that fact was exploited by the tools of the international banksters to orchestrate the events which transpired.
Although Russia had the shit kicked out of it by the international banksters throughout the 20th Century, Russia has recently recovered somewhat, and therefore, is now a threat to the global interests of the international banksters. (The same could be said of China.) Therefore, an extremely serious, and actually utterly insane, end game appears to be approaching, where the international banksters are going for the big plays, to try to destroy the big countries which are left that are not under the direct control of the international banksters, because their central banks are still somewhat under public control through those countries.
Of course, in the background, the long game of the banksters has already succeeded in forcing every country in the world to more or less adopt and assimilate the same basic methods as the banksters pioneered. Everywhere in the world, the Neolithic style of civilization predominates, with its kinds of legalized lies, backed by legalized violence, organizing human societies. That is already the background that we now take for granted. However, in the foreground is the struggle for consolidating a globalized control over the money system, and through that, control over all natural resources.
Since we have already pushed through the peak of strip-mining planet Earth, and there are not now more abundant natural resources to discover and develop, the competition for the dwindling resources left is going to intensify at an exponential rate. The global systems of the international banksters were built on the long military history of backing up deceits with destruction, as the foundation for the more recent monetary history of backing up frauds with force. Everywhere in the world, those struggles are intensifying, and Ukraine was merely one of the recent flash points where things have boiled over. The big trends are the access to food and fuel, reflected in the costs of those things, which drive deep discontent. That political discontent gets channeled to make things get even worse, because the whole system was already built on deceit and fraud, while the vast majority of people do not understand their own reality, but rather, have been conditioned to not want to understand that.
Anyway, inside of that context, I regard it as nostalgic nonsense to advocate an isolationist attitude for North Americans towards events in Asia. The world is already globalized Neolithic Civilization, controlled by Huge Lies, backed by Lots of Violence, which has succeeded to the degree that most people still believe in those Huge Lies. Moreover, those Lies are different at every level, and most people also continue to believe in corresponding sets of Huge Lies, at every level, when they promote their preferred kinds of idealized "solutions" to the real, runaway problems that the human species faced. As those chronic political problems get amplified trillions of times by advances in science and technology, pushing the industrial revolution through demented developments based on the maximum possible deceits and frauds, which reach real limits of Peak Insanity, all over the world waves of social insanities ripple through.
Tragically, it is pathetic to recommend North American isolationism, when, in fact, North America is already almost totally dominated by the international banksters, and has been one of the their main tools to advance their agenda all over the world against other groups. Attempting to understand the world, as with each new wave of localized events, such as in the Ukraine now, travels through infinite tunnels of deceits and frauds. The deeper problems are that any possible genuinely better resolutions to those runaway problems also travels through level after level ... where globalization already has happened.
The international banksters have been primarily the ones driving that globalization to occur, in ways which benefited them, while being ruthless, relentless, and reckless, when wiping out opposition to that. It is way too late now to day dream about isolating ourselves from those trends. Rather, the only good way forward would be to push the processes that the banksters started on past where they would have wanted to stop. Personally, I think that is going to happen anyway, because the international banksters have become too criminally insane to comprehend themselves enough any more. They are willing and able to risk wars that use weapons of mass destruction, as if that risk may result in them prevailing to get what they want from forcing the consolidation of the globalized frauds.
However, given the degree that the governments of North America are already almost totally banksters puppets, supported by masses of muppets, who act against their own real interests, because they have been so totally brainwashed to believe in bullshit, and therefore, want to continue to believe in that bullshit, it is hardly possible that North Americans will not continue to act, as will almost all of NATO, to support the globalized agenda of the international banksters. In that context, any neo-isolationism is nonsense on every level one examines. First, the real systems are already controlled by the banksters' puppets, as supported by muppets. Secondly, any genuinely good future for the human species on planet Earth is going to require better global government, which de facto global government the banksters have already been making and maintaining with their kinds of lies, backed by violence, done through corporations and governments which those banksters were able to dominate and direct what to do.
In my view, the only good future is to drive the processes that the banksters have already driven, through to fulfillments in ways that the banksters did not plan upon, nor want to happen. Of course, I actually think that it is way more likely that Neolithic Civilization will commit collective suicide, verging on omnicide, rather than that we will be able to transform to become a Translithic Civilization. But nevertheless, I would say that it is IMPERATIVE to try to understand what is happening in the Ukraine, as well as all other flash point places, in order to understand that those events are NOT isolated, and therefore, isolationism is NOT a good response. Rather, I believe that the better path is to try to understand what the international banksters have been doing, in order to develop ways to do what they did better than they have. I continue be strongly in favour of the development of good global government, which is NOT one still dominated by the banksters, but rather is one which takes over what they have constructed, to direct that to serve radically different purposes. ...
However, meanwhile, all over the world, the banksters will continue to push their agenda, hoping that if they push that enough, then they will be able to overwhelm all opposition, including opposition in the resurgent countries such as Russia and China, that the banksters were able to push around a lot during the 20th Century, but which have since adapted by adopting and assimilating a lot of the social and physical technologies that the banksters originally advanced. In that real context, what North Americans should do is understand how they ended up being enslaved by the international banksters, so that North Americans are controlled by the banksters' political puppets, supported by muppets who have been brainwashed to understand world events in thoroughly backwards ways, as were promoted to be perceived as the "truth" by the banksters.
IF enough North Americans went through that series of political miracles, then the final result would NOT be neo-isolationism, but rather a globalized engagement with the globalized systems that were made and maintained by the banksters, in order to direct those globalized systems to implement radically different political purposes, which go beyond what the banksters dreamt of, or did. I repeat, I am in favour of global government, but one in which its institutions are understood, and implemented by more people, for radically different goals than the banksters' currently insanely egotistical goals represent.
All over the world, we are going to be automatically seeing more and more events like those in the Ukraine, each one demonstrating how its local history responds under globalized pressures. Isolationism is never going to be an adequate response to those events. Rather, understanding the ways that the international banksters built their kind of globalization is what is necessary to possibly push those phenomena through to achieve finally better results.
International banksters are meaningless at this point, there's a big mess to clear up. If it is not your fight, please next time do not sign any treaties. In 1994 Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons against a promise of protection from the U.S. and the U.K. There's a fancy treaty with signatures, and all that jazz. Now that it comes to nothing, it is easy to see:
1. If you have nuclear weapons, do not give up them
2. If you don't have nuclear weapons, acquire them ASAP
A GLOBALIZED SYSTEM
OF ELECTRONIC FRAUDS,
BACKED UP WITH NUCLEAR WEAPONS!
Martel, your 2 suggested actions merely make sure that such a country will continue to be integrated into the globalized insanity of electronic fraud, backed by the force of atomic bombs. That does nothing to resolve the deeper issues, but only amplifies all of those problems to grow to even more astronomical SIZES, because the basic problem is backing up the social pyramid systems of Neolithic Civilization with technologies that are trillions of times more capable and powerful.
Clearly, Martel, you are just another superficial goofball, who has never thought through the deeper nature of the problem, otherwise you would not recommend that nation states should make and maintain more nuclear weapons as any kind of solution to the world's real problems.
And that's the quandary. If I point a gun at your head, cock it, look at you really nasty like, and talk like this is your last day, then all the "world's real problems", will suddenly entirely disappear from your mind, for the duration, and your own immediate survival will be the only thing concerning you, unless you are suicidal. And you will dearly wish you had a gun in your hand too, because if Mr nasty twitches, your deep concern with the world's real problems, ends right there, in a spray of red and grey. ;-)
It does not matter what anyone says, or what agreements are made and signed or assurances given from afar, because it's these threatened States who will make the strategic calculation and decision about what they must do about that gun. They will be very focused and single-minded, for the duration, and further threats and diplomatic hand-waving will not stop them from doing what they must, to be able to survive.
It may be unpleasant, objectionable and disturbing, but strategic decisions and actions always are vile and horrible choices, ALWAYS.
Indeed, element "strategic decisions and actions always are vile and horrible choices, ALWAYS!" Therefore, over and over again, decisions are made due to short-term consequences, which are ALWAYS FORCED to be made with an attitude of evil deliberate ignorance towards the longer term consequences ...
AFTER ONE DISCOVERS THE REAL SOCIAL FACTS ARE THAT ALMOST EVERYTHING IS CONTROLLED BY LIES, BACKED BY VIOLENCE, THEN, AS LONG AS ONE IS NOT WILLING TO DO THAT TOO, THEN ONE ACCOMPLISHES NOTHING, WHILE, IF ONE DOES THAT TOO, THEN ONE JOINS IN MAKING THINGS GET WORSE, FASTER, AS IS CURRENTLY MANIFESTING IN THE UKRAINIAN SITUATION.
The pursuit of better weapons has driven civilization towards collective suicidal insanities. The problem is that no longer makes any sense, because NOTHING HUMAN BEINGS DID DURING PREVIOUS HUMAN HISTORY MAKES ANY REAL SENSE ANYMORE AFTER THE DEVELOPMENT OF WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION. We are trapped into the insanities of historical military imperatives, collectively preparing to commit suicide, if not omnicide together, for exactly those reasons which you correctly outlined above, element!
Which are WHY it continues to be practically a waste of time to bother to comment on world affairs. That the world is controlled by lies backed by violence, which became global electronic frauds, backed by atomic bombs, indicates that there are NO genuinely intelligent better resolutions to chronic political problems which are practically possible. There is only watching and waiting as insane events, like those in the Ukraine, make the Ukrainians' situation worse, and then worse again faster, with the constant risk of that social insanity spreading elsewhere, which it surely will eventually ...
Population growth and social environment decay is doing the same, but babies are just so cute. The difference, as we've formerly discussed, is that none of this understanding disturbs me, or upsets me, it is what it is, I'm OK with that. If I can't change it, I can at least understand it.
I'll give up the fight when I'm dead mate, not before. :)
The US must preserve its sole right to Bomb, Invade and Destroy any country at will! USA #1
Yes. All in the name of keeping me "safe" from terrorism so the cops can rob me, beat the shit out of me, taze me and kill me to keep me "safe" They're fighting for my "freedom"
Hello...HELLOOOOO....WE STARTED IT!!!!
Crimea river! The war mongering MIC and politicians needing a distraction are just itching for a fight.
Ex-CIA Pilot Gives Sworn Testimony That No Planes Hit The Twin Towers
"has given his expert evidence that it would have been physically impossible for Boeing 767s, like Flights AA11 and UA175 to have hit the Twin Towers on 9/11, particularly when flown by inexperienced pilots:
‘No Boeing 767 airliners hit the Twin Towers as fraudulently alleged by the government, media, NIST and its contractors’, he stated in the affidavit. ‘Such crashes did not occur because they are physically impossible as depicted, for the following reasons: in the case of UAL 175 going into the south tower, a real Boeing 767 would have begun 'telescoping' when the nose hit the 14 inch steel columns which are 39 inches on center. ‘The vertical and horizontal tail would have instantaneously separated from the aircraft, hit the steel box columns and fallen to the ground. ‘The engines when impacting the steel columns would havemaintained their general shape and either fallen to the ground or been recovered in the debris of the collapsed building.".... http://beforeitsnews.com/eu/2014/03/ex-cia-pilot-gives-sworn-testimony-t...
FrankenKerry!
And Count Chocula (Obama).
Chocbama
To protest the Crimea invasion Great Brittan is now boycoting the special olympics in Sochi. I do not think UK handicaped athaletic absence will be noticed by Putin or anyone.