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I Don’t Know What’s Going On In Ukraine, But I Do Know One Thing: We Should STAY OUT OF IT
Most American mainstream media say that the Ukranian people rose up against a decadent dictator to chart their own destiny.
On the other hand, some knowledgeable commentators say that the Ukranian protests were really a violent coup initiated by the U.S., and carried out by Neo-Nazi factions within Ukraine.
People like Mark Ames argue that all sides have dirt on their hands.
Still others – like Charles Hugh Smith – say that there are much deeper forces at work. Indeed, some argue this is really a war over natural gas (and see this and this).
At this point, I have no idea which of these explanations is correct, or whether some combination of these forces is playing out in the region.
But I do know one thing: we should stay the heck out of Ukraine.
After all:
- Ukraine is far away … on the other side of the world
- As neighbors with Russia – and a former part of the Soviet Union – Russia considers the Ukraine to be part of its national security interest
- Russia is a nuclear power
Moreover, I want to stay out of another war for very practical reasons:
- War is horrible for our economy
- “Humanitarian war” is a scam
This isn’t our fight … and the downside of getting involved are gigantic.
Bonus:
Are the American People FINALLY Starting to Stand Up to Those Who Are Trying to Take Away Our Liberties?
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I've still haven't heard anyone advocating US war. All I see is posturing and a bunch of strawmen being knocked down.
I can do without the posturing. Just the mfn facts please.
Fact 1: US sticks its dick everywhere formenting unrest where it aligns with US interest. Though, this doesn't mean there isn't genuine motive with the unrest. I did see real Ukranians dying last week.
Fact 2: Ukraine is not yet a NATO member and US has assets elsewhere.
Fact 3: A treaty is only worth the political power behind it. The days where suicide pacts were honored died with my grandfather. US will shit all over you if it's convenient to do so.
Fact 4: US does not have the will to openly fight a proxy war in Syria. This makes a real war here an impossibility. Expect more paying people to kill eachother.
Fact 5: Natural Gas can be piped into EU from elsewhere; it will just cost more.
Well, You can choose when and where to fight...
a) ukraine
b) portugal
c) main street, yourtown
Your call
PS: i have an even better idea: lets stop using russian gas & send the ukraine, say, 10000 antitank missile and 2000 stingers... and lets see who wins, those inept russian mils or the ukrainians..
BS. Nobody is going to be fighting on Main Street, Mytown, about which criminal gang is going to claim the absolute monopoly of violence over the territory of the Ukraine.
Amen, Brother. I don't hear the Russians getting involved in Scotland's choice to dump Great Britain, Barcelona's attempt to cede from Spain, or Quebec past attempts at jumping from Canada.
Who the fuck are we to say what shoudl go on in Ukraine? As far as I'm concerned, if you live in the US or Western Europe, the only time you should bother with Ukraine is in the game of RISK. Even in that game, you'd learn it's difficult to keep and not worth trying to take over until the end game.
If they want self-rule, they can have their self rule. If Putin wants Crimea, let him have his Crimea.
This dumb douche bag we have as the head of our military, i.e. our president, is talking about freezing Russian bank accounts. If he does this, say hello to the next great depression, like in 24 hours.
And, he's just fucking dumb enough to do it.
Food, water, cash, gold, silver, lead, etc. - Obama scares me 10,000X more than Putin. Putin says what he wants, is intelligent, will take what he says he is going to protect, etc.
Obama talks shit, Kerry talks more shit, and not one of them has a fucking clue that Ukraine is not in our Sphere of Influence. If Russia invades the Dominican Republic, I'd be pissed. Otherwise, let them have their Ukraine. Life's unfair. I know this because I live in a country with a president and attorney general who are both criminals.
Finally, if we rose up to overthrow the animals in the 2 of the 3 branches of our government, I think Russia might just stay the fuck out of it.
God, Obama pisses me off. He's going to be the death of this once great country.
Hope, Change, ugh.
2 of the 3 branches? IMHO you have the trifecta. All three are now looking out for each other and are on puppet strings to the .0001%
Where do you run from a cold war? A good technocrat is worth his weight in gold during a crisis! Only he is privy to information between polar opposites that world affairs hang in his balance and not theirs. His words are of such meaning anything he says is gospel and now its game on. One person controlling the outcome of billions? You have got to admit that the reason for the delay of the nwo is its amount of detail and not any music stopping. Peoples connect to people because the devil travels in groups and not because anyone needs a penpal to friend. Our perception of this event as the beginning of some new cold war hinges on Syria in the coming weeks or it never was about hydrocarbons after all?
only thing one needs to know is soros tried to grab a freebie.
A little late GW. We've been there trying to get Ukraine into NATO for "strategic" purposes for some time. Half the people don't want it, which is why it's all been clandestine. Now we have to make up all sorts of stories in order to save face and avoid the inevitable backlash, which of course, will not work.
This is different from Lybia, Syria, Egypt or even Sinkaku islands in one, but the most fundamental, way: this involves The Evil Empire that is now aiming to restore it's authoritarianism over Europe again.First Europe, then cental asia, then pact with China. This is not a few hundred towelehads in the caves trying to desing a new "shoe-bomb."
Whatever happens with Lybia or Mali or even Afghanistan is not going to alter the world order. If Russia isn't stopped now, the world be very different, and that's NOT in USA's interests.
Three successive US administrations were dead-wrong about The Evil Empire, thinking that it can be reformed. Instead Russia used this time to rearm itself, stash away some ForEx reserves for "the rainy day," and make EU dependent on their gas, while USA was bogged down in the "sandbox" and EU became more impotent than ever. It's time to get after the bear and drive it back into its cage.
You might want to consider a few realities about the state of Russias influence and power in Europe since the collapse of the USSR circa 1990.
1. The Warsaw pact is defunct
2. Germany has been reunified and now dominates the continent economically
3. The leading economies of the former satellite states are now independent and economically stronger and vehemently opposed to Russian reoccupation.
i.e Poland, Czech Republic, Hungary, Slovakia, the Baltic and Balkan states
4. Russias grip on its eastern and southern former provinces is tenuous at best and open warfare at worst.
This is simply not your daddy,s USSR.
From Moscow, the view of the elected Pro Russia government in Ukraine being overthrown by outside interests is extremely threatening ...we best tread with caution, or better yet butt out..... except we,re already in there up to our asses.
Please crawl back under your rock.
Lol is he for real? That has to be a government spambot. I bet we find similar postings on other sites if it is.
Stay out of it? Who do you think caused it?
jews are not "Neo-Nazis."
Despite calls for neutrality in Ukraine protests, young Jews are on the front lines
"Despite calls by Jewish leaders to remain neutral, young Jews have been on the front lines of protests against Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovich."
"Alexandra Oleynikova, a young Jewish activist involved in organizing Limmud conferences, told [The Jerusalem Post] that while some Jews stayed away out of fear, others had flocked to Maidan."
"These Jewish protesters, she said, 'stand there nights and days; they really live there now and they help people who come to find accommodations. They bring food and they collect money.'"
"Some young Ukrainian Jews who work for international organizations such as JDC, Hillel and Limmud are 'really active' in offering support as well as 'organizing the barricades,' Oleynikova said."
"On November 30, when government forces staged a massive push against the barricades, attacking and beating protesters, she said, 'my friends were on the front lines of the fighting against the troops.'"
"Reading about the protests on Facebook and seeing anti-Semitic comments is different from the reality on the ground, Oleynikova added."
Israeli ex-officer leads Ukraine protests: Reports
"According to reports, the unnamed Israeli commands a group of 20 Ukrainian militants."
"Four other Israelis, who had previously served in the army, were recently reported to have taken part in opposition rallies in Ukraine’s capital, Kiev."
"Meanwhile, Ukrainian media said that an Israeli tycoon provides financial support to the opposition in Ukraine, adding that Israel’s Mossad intelligence agency is one of the instigators of the unrest in the country."
Victoria Nuland spoke at the National Press Club on December 13, 2013 - Video
Victoria Nuland (jew) admitted that the US government has spent over five billion dollars to subvert the Ukrainian government.
The ex-Israeli soldier who led a Kiev fighting unit
"'Delta' has headed 'the Blue Helmets of Maidan' of 40 men and women - including several IDF veterans - in violent clashes with government forces."
"He calls his troops 'the Blue Helmets of Maidan,' but brown is the color of the headgear worn by Delta — the nom de guerre of the commander of a Jewish-led militia force that participated in the Ukrainian revolution. Under his helmet, he also wears a kippah."
"'I don’t belong [to Svoboda], but I take orders from their team. They know I’m Israeli, Jewish and an ex-IDF soldier. They call me 'brother,'' he said. 'What they’re saying about Svoboda is exaggerated, I know this for a fact. I don’t like them because they’re inconsistent, not because of [any] anti-Semitism issue.'"
"But Delta says the Kremlin is using the anti-Semitism card falsely to delegitimize the Ukrainian revolution, which is distancing Ukraine from Russia’s sphere of influence."
"'It’s bullshit. I never saw any expression of anti-Semitism during the protests, and the claims to the contrary were part of the reason I joined the movement. We’re trying to show that Jews care,' he said."
The jews are harvesting the organs of wounded protesters.
"But Delta has another, more ambitious, project: He and Azman are organizing the airborne evacuation of seriously wounded protesters — none of them Jewish — for critical operations in Israel. One of the patients, a 19-year-old woman, was wounded at Institutskaya by a bullet that penetrated her eye and is lodged inside her brain, according to Delta. Azman says he hopes the plane of 17 patients will take off next week, with funding from private donors and with help from Ukraine’s ambassador to Israel."
"In essence, this is a war between the big companies to control the energy deposits. The biggest barrier now are the state-controlled giants in Russia and China and neoliberalism is trying to conquer these countries. The Western companies have declared war against companies like Gazprom, as they seek to control all the energy deposits, but in this case things are not so easy. The neoliberal model that opens the road for the Western capital, has to face now, two superpowers."
http://failedevolution.blogspot.gr/2014/03/the-closed-system-of-biggest-...
I can see George Washington will not be invited as a speaker at the AIPAC conference in Washington. Sorry George, missed your opportunity to meet Nuland, McCain and Kerry who will receive Zionist Peace Prizes for protecting Israel to the glare of music, flood lights and applause. On other hand, you are not running for any office.
Send in Team America - World Police - they'll fix everything!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmoeZHnOJKA (1:26)
Yes sir GW we need to get back to coney island before day break boppers
A failure to finish brownskins have empowered the brownshirts? Our without media trying to make it fight night everynight most Americans can tell the difference because Ukraine has darker pussy lips then Russians?
George Washington (the original) warned us to be friendly, trade, and be open with other nations, but to stay the hell out of their business. Now ZH's GW says the same. We should listen to both Georges.
The Army is suffering from a general malaise from 20 years of more or less constant deployments. The treasury is a sad tale of woe.
Now is not a good time, Bronco, not a good time at all.
The world's affairs are America's bidness...now where's that slow motion eagle when we need it?
Yes, reduce my tax rate to .5% so I can save more money and help boost my local economy rather than send my $$$'s to DC where they're shitted away....
Well GW, you and I both agree we should stay out of Ukraine so the chances are pretty close to 100% we won't.
Stay out? Why on earth would we? Everything is going according to the plan. What the people want will again be ignored, subverted and plowed under. This highs-stakes game of chicken is just what the elite ordered.
Don't we have better things to do rather than blow shit up and kill people?...
Reichstag Fire in Kiev
I have been watching RT and there have been 2 reports where a navy officer and an airforce officer in Crimea swear loyalty to the Crimean people and Crimea. Not west Ukraine not east Ukraine not Russia not the EU.
This is an incredible glimmer of hope. Just think if all the cities and communities of the planet simultaneosly declared independence from the state and the oligarcy. The world would face a new era of enlightenment.
Don't forget that the anarchists repelled the illuminati in Ukraine during the early 20's
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism_in_Ukraine
"I have been watching RT"
What exactly were you expecting to see on Russia Today? Pro-Ukraine forces pledging to fight to the end?
RT is totally pro-Russia but unlike CNN it does manage to provide a minimal amount of usable inormation. These were interviews of military officers explaining why they were pledging allegiance to the republic of Crimea. Now go back to chewing your MSM America-Fuck-Yeah cud.
There is already a wiki page and a history:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_Republic_of_Crimea
Wikipedia?! The best tool the CIA has right now, along with Google that brings any search to Wikipedia first up and then a list of secondary sites that mimic whatever Wikipedia states.
An excellent expose of Wikipedia and Google here. http://homment.com/FB3PjBQ2DF If you care about truth then read it and consider what we are very likely up against.
And now Odessa! Long live the Anarchist Revolution!
"A mass rally took place today in the city of Odessa. The demonstrators surrounded the local parliament building and demanded the the elected officials adopt a referendum on the future of the city of Odessa."
http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.ch/2014/03/ukraine-sitrep-march-3-1343-est...
Odessa at the least; nothing near the Black Sea will be left to the Eurocrat Brussels Bandits, and likely not any of Ukraine.
"nothing near the Black Sea will be left to the Eurocrat Brussels Bandits"
By who? who wouldn't give Ukraine to the eurocrats for the right price? Who is really running this show? John Kerry? Kenya Barry? Vlad the Schwül? Merkel the Dike?
Or someone else behind the scenes...
Prince Bandar.
Ah yes, the ultimate dream. Unfortunately, they do not have enough guns - or rather, they do not have the backing of a power with enough guns.
That is why we all have to arise together! It would be the true NWO, and a free and unfettered internet could make it possible.
That is why they are in such a rush, things are spinning out of control and the proles are waking up.
Moreover, I want to stay out of another war for very practical reasons:
But George, as usual it isn't about us trickled-on folks, it's about enriching the assholes at the top. So, war is "good" for THEIR economy.
Generally speaking, war is good for economies to varying degrees. WW II was an example that hasn't been repeated though in scale. Productivity increased significantly during the war and this eventually led us out of the great depression. Although, some would argue that just merely winning the war achieved this but I would argue that both productivity and being the victor led us out of the great depression. This not an argument for war, simply trying to see things for how they actually are.
Raetheon in Arizona employs a lot of people and of course that money "trickles" down at least on a local level. The lower classes do not get jobs from other poor people. So the principle of trickle down is sound. The problem is that our country is De-industrializing and the trickle down effect does NOT work nearly as well, if at all, with a growing financial sector. Producing goods as we use too is the key difference as opposed to Wall Street producing nothing and the wealth just stays there. Along with a stable currency and lots of competition. More jobs meant more could move into the middle class and stay in an industrialized society. You could argue that it helps in NY or Charlotte, both financial hubs, but the effects are geographically limited.
Anyway, I would say the days of limited warfare are coming to an end. I wish that was a good thing. It's hard for me not to conclude that the west is not trying to provoke WWIII. If they're not it's surely a dangerous game. Let's hope they don't test our war time economic theories.
You're a liar or idiot. Go on mises.org, they have debunked this many times. You don't get more capital goods by breaking capital goods.
War is terrible for the economy. The "Broken Window" example is a good one in Hazlitt's book. It is too bad that most will not RESEARCH....as you. You don't even research the possibility of the Saudi connection before spouting off.
But I do not declare you as an idiot or a liar. You are just a typical Human.
We caused it. We started the fight. Now you ask that we bail???
As far as I am concerned the Ukes need to declare their sovereign rights and start blowing up Pipelines. Screw the EU and screw the Russians. (Without a way to transport Natural Gas to Europe the Russians cannot sell it. That will cost them REVENUES.)
We should not have been in there in the first place. We have no business there.
I smell a God Damned Saudi Prince Bandar who is calling these shots.
We need to get the fuck out.
Saudis? Nice try. It is well known that Israelis were fighting in Kiev.
And don't the Israelis have a new alliance with Saudi?
http://uprootedpalestinians.wordpress.com/2014/01/16/partners-in-terrorism-israel-saudi-arabia-form-bizarre-alliance/
The article is dated January 14, 2014.
Are you too busy buying into the MSM story?
Strange bedfellows. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."
It is a strange mindset. But it exists.
Why don't you do some RESEARCH???
Bandar was pretty pissed off at Putin for nixing the Syria Operation last September.
The only thing the Saudis are capable of assassinating is a bottle of scotch and a pocket of khat.
Excellent Idea!
Now all we need to do is to assemble a mass demonstration in Washington to let them know that if they even attempt to start World War III there might be consequences like public executions of those elected that have committed the worst treason in our history in front of their own office buildings.
Oh that's right I forgot?...
It's still too cold outside and the only ones allowed inside the offices other than the paid for shills that work there are the lobbyists from the MIC and AIPAC. Perhaps when we have our first "winter thaw" and the temperatures are in the upper 60's we can give it a try then!
Silly me
No more wars please. I think I have used up all of my "luck" in the last 17 years... plus +++ war is fucking stuipd.
When Barry calls for the ultimate sacrifice just shut up and die like an American sojer.
And something tells me US air superiority would not be a given over this battlefield...
Sorry George, but in this particular case i think you are wrong. Actually, the US is bound by quite strong treaty with Ukraine, where it guarantees it sovereignty and borders in exchange of Ukraine giving up its nukes.
Of cause, we cynics know all these treaties are not worth the paper they are written o, and yet to some it may appear to be more than nothing. To those, for exaple, who were planning to do the same treaties with the US... Or to some honest people who believe in treaties.
I know, i know, we should not have signed this, and yet here we are. And what if we step aside and tomorrow everybody starting with Iran and ending with Fiji islands will put it in our face and use it as an excuse to get some nukes? Because obviously the nukes are much more material borders protection tool comparing to ink and paper....
Where is that uranium ETF trading?