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Anti-Science: Those Who Wish to Debate Climate Threatened with Death or Jail
Preface: The scientific method requires allowing a free-for-all of hypotheses, which then rise or fall based upon the results of actual experiments. In other words, science means that you throw out theories - no matter how good they look on paper - that are disproven by experimental results, and adopt those confirmed by the results. [Economics is supposed to do that, too ... but hasn't.]
For example, imprisoning Galileo for life because he didn't agree with the "accepted" consensus that the Sun revolved around the Earth was not a great example of the scientific method. Instead of conducting experiments to see whether the Earth or Sun were the center of the Solar System, those with the prevailing view simply silenced the dissenter.
Anyone who has studied the history of science knows that many theories that were universally accepted and “known” to be true turned out to be false. See these examples from the Houston Chronicle and the Guardian.
Noam Chomsky said years ago that he would submit to fascism if it would help combat global warming:
Suppose it was discovered tomorrow that the greenhouse effects has been way understimated, and that the catastrophic effects are actually going to set in 10 years from now, and not 100 years from now or something. Well, given the state of the popular movements we have today, we’d probably have a fascist takeover-with everybody agreeing to it, because that would be the only method for survival that anyone could think of. I’d even agree to it, because there’s just no other alternatives right now.”
In 2006, Grist called for Nuremberg-style trials for climate skeptics. (The article was later retracted.)
Environmentalist Robert F. Kennedy Jr. lashed out at global warming skeptics in 2007, declaring “This is treason. And we need to start treating them as traitors.”
In 2007, a UN official – Yvo de Boer – warned that ignoring warming would be ‘criminally irresponsible’ Excerpt: The U.N.’s top climate official warned policymakers and scientists trying to hammer out a landmark report on climate change that ignoring the urgency of global warming would be “criminally irresponsible.”
The same year, another UN official – UN special climate envoy Dr. Gro Harlem Brundtland – said “it’s completely immoral, even, to question” the UN’s scientific consensus on climate.
In 2008, prominent Canadian environmentalist David Suzuki called for government leaders skeptical of global warming to be “thrown into jail.”
The same year, British journalism professor Alex Lockwood said that writers questioning global warming should be banned.
In 2009, a writer at Talking Points Memo advocated that global warming “deniers” be executed or jailed. (He later retracted the threat.)
James Lovelock – environmentalist and creator of the “Gaia hypothesis” – told the Guardian in 2010:
We need a more authoritative world. We’ve become a sort of cheeky, egalitarian world where everyone can have their say. It’s all very well, but there are certain circumstances – a war is a typical example – where you can’t do that. You’ve got to have a few people with authority who you trust who are running it. And they should be very accountable too, of course.
But it can’t happen in a modern democracy. This is one of the problems. What’s the alternative to democracy? There isn’t one. But even the best democracies agree that when a major war approaches, democracy must be put on hold for the time being. I have a feeling that climate change may be an issue as severe as a war. It may be necessary to put democracy on hold for a while.
Earlier this month, an assistant philosophy professor at Rochester Institute of Technology said he wants to send people who disagree with him about global warming to jail.
And there are many other examples of threats made in regard to the climate debate.
Postscript: If we can’t have free speech and an open scientific debate, then we are no longer living in a democracy or a society which follows the scientific method. Threatening scientific debate is anti-science and anti-liberty.
It is especially troubling given the background of climate discussions. Specifically, in the 1970s, many American scientists were terrified of an imminent ice age. Obama’s top science advisor – John Holdren – was one of them. Holdren and some other scientists proposed pouring soot over the arctic to melt the ice cap and so prevent the dreaded ice age. Holdren warned of dire consequences – including starvation and the largest tidal wave in history – if mankind did not rally on an emergency basis to stop the coming ice age.
Were those who questioned the likelihood of an imminent ice age also threatened with death or imprisonment?
Moreover, it is also concerning that many of the “solutions” proposed to combat a changing climate could do more harm than good (and see this). That’s sort of like invading Iraq after 9/11 because we had to “do” something…
Let’s say that – hypothetically – 100% of all climate scientists reached a consensus that manmade global warming from carbon dioxide was an imminent threat. Shouldn’t we choose approaches that actually work – and which do more good than harm (more) – instead of messing things up even further?
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And who funds the scientists? Their governments who see yet another excuse to increase taxes?
There is nothing convincing about paid "shills"
that's why the anti-AGW crowd isn't convincing: no scientists among them, only those who shill on behalf of the producers or mass-consumers of petroleum.
global warming is an ignorant crock of buffalo shit which the fascist totalitarians are using to enslave humanity to their anti-technology troglodyte world of imbeciles....the truth of the matter is that the planet is headed toward global cooling...
these totalitarian goons are plugged into the ziocon new world order to do another pol pot number to wipe out people...
These globalists, the scum of the earth, the British Petroleum stockholders, the Bechtel family, the Tepco stockholders, These Al Gores that owned substantial interest in Molten Metal a company that went bankrupt because it got busted for dumping toxic waste, they are criminals and destroying not only the planet but also all of humanity. They are vermin that should be shunned and their legacy written in the inconel tablets of Q99x2.
Carbon Dioxide does not correlate to global warming. Carbon dioxide emmisions have skyrocketed and global temperature has remained flat. If you want to really learn what is going on you have to go to Suspicious Observers. I watch the 3-5 minute space weather news there everyday.
As I said these globalists that are destroying the planet are very bad people. Fortunately some of the most powerful nations and enterprises in the world are kicking their asses at this time.
There is hope.
I too go to Suspicious Observers, to watch the 3-5 minute space weather news there everyday.
Yes RM, and good ol Jessie does a great job of reporting solar things etc also.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOxCCuotItY&list=UUxz5R9YQMRW5QqElbAlMqRw
How do you be corrupt and incorruptible at the same time? Why you build your own little world, your own fantasy, with self referential, self reinforcing dogma.
And of course a world can't have doubts, can't ever admit being wrong about anything. That would spoil the hypnosis, the illusion.
And it never seems to get old. And the victims never catch on. But that's because they aren't victims, they're junkies.
"We need a more authoritative world."
Leftists mostly agree with that blunt sentiment, presumably in the doubtless belief they will inevitably become the source of that authority -- and without any apparent second thought that it might not work out that way despite all the evidence they are the glaringly obvious minority. Darwin was right.
This "Leftist" doesn't!
There are no leftists nor right wing.
That's a puppet show for imbeciles & children.
Which are you?
Can't believe you're still falling for it.
Your death cult can't hide just by telling us you don't exist. We see the left, what they have done, what they are doing, and what they are trying to do. We see you trying to call elitist criminals and anti-liberty RINO statists "right wing".
There are two posibilities here: 1) Every poster here who has a user name ending in "Bogus" posts' are satire. 2) You are one very evil SOB.
Just 1 calorie, not eeevil enough.
So it must be satire.
A third possibility:
3) You are a twit living in denial of empirical science...
My money is on the third...
george you forgot to explain why this fascistic global warming campaign is nothing more than the wests attempt at creating a unifying message to help 1) tax their citizens into poverty and 2) control the energy industries of peripheral and developing nations and finally 3) create a unifying narrative of self righteousness to unify and gain support for agression.
that is to say, global warming as theory could be right or wrong, but this is not why the campaign exists. furthermore, the agreed catastrophic outcome of global warming is universally agreed by global warmists as none other than rising sea levels which , even they admit, can only rise less than 1 foot a decade, even under the most outrageous predictions. means 6 sigma 'they all agree' that it will be no more than meters this century under the most catastrophic predictions.
of course, this puts cities at slow risk of flooding. and this of course becomes the primary reason that global warming people claim the right to tax the shit out of the entire world and dictate all of modern energy policy.
the sad truth is that the dual realities can coexist just fine. Most certainly Man is destroying his environment, and man is using this truth as an exuse to control his fellow man. It is beyond most people that the dual realities can co-exist without destroying a persons outlook on how the world DOES work , rather than how it should.
I totally agree with that, teslaberry:
"...the dual realities can coexist just fine. Most certainly Man is destroying his environment, and man is using this truth as an excuse to control his fellow man. ..."
I repeat my overview of that duality:
The mechanisms of greenhouse gases causing warming have been scientifically demonstrated for more than a Century. However, the bigger picture is not clear, since there are so many different factors all adding together. The threat of global warming is NOT totally bullshit, despite the facts that our civilization is almost totally dominated by bullshit. Sure, when one studies whether or not one should or could blame human activities for climate change, one can end up feeling like a dog twirling around chasing its tail, because one can not necessarily trust any of the sources of information about that.
But nevertheless, the basic theory of greenhouse gas driven warming is sound, despite that there are no climate models at present that appear to be accurate enough. (I believe that human beings are nowhere near understanding the more cosmic factors enough to include into their climate models, but rather, have tended to ignore those factors.) After all, naturally speaking, one may more probably have presumed that we were headed back towards another ice age, rather than global warming, as was more appropriately fashionable for some scientists to predict back in the 1970s.
However, my current view is that human activities have already introduced enough greenhouse gas warming so that we have triggered a cascade of irreversible changes. Those changes are going to slowly reverse the previously natural climate cycles, to drive unprecedented climate changes. Although I can not be certain, these days I tend to presume that human greenhouse gas pollution has already triggered runaway climate changes, that human beings no longer could stop, even if there were enough political miracles that they could agree to try to do so. ... IF I am right that, despite that we are getting a break from natural factors driving us towards another ice age (such as the Earth's diminishing magnetic field), the human activities have already triggered enough of a cascade of runaway exponential greenhouse gas mechanisms to engage, THEN we are trillions of times more screwed than is possible for us to imagine at the present time!
P.S.
I envy those people that are able to dismiss that problem as nonexistent. Many people are able to scoff at the ideas that there were any limits. That provides a wonderful personal rationalization to enjoy living in the ways that are possible after one has adopted an attitude of evil deliberate ignorance towards the consequences of one's actions. (Often I wish that I could time warp back to my previous states of more blissful ignorance about these matters, just driving around in my automobile with the radio playing!)
Just because the ruling classes dominate everything with their bullshit does NOT mean that everything they say is all bullshit. Instead, I now look at them as like the "boy who cried wolf." My view today is that the potential threats from climate changes are trillions of times worse than those which are being used by the ruling classes as excuses to control other people, and force more people to pay the ruling classes more tributes or taxes. Furthermore, the duplicitous DUALITIES make resolving these problems practically impossible from a political point of view.
"[...] provides a wonderful personal rationalization to enjoy living in the ways that are possible after one has adopted an attitude of evil deliberate ignorance towards the consequences of one's actions"
That's what speech is all about: self reinforcement, self validation. And it always looks rational. So often, normal human expression is only some kind of ego strengthening. Aiming at maintaining that state of deliberate ignorance. Nowadays we can do so much in full ignorance: torture and kill any life forms, etc. We couldn't be more anti-scientific and yet we claim rational thinking. This is the absolute nightmare: sleepwalkers worshipping consciousness, murderers claiming peace.
We are deeply medieval people worshipping the cult of reason: one couldn't imagine a more effective and ugly middle age.
I envy those people that are able to dismiss that problem as nonexistent.
Don't! The realization was horrendous after believing and donating and giving so much of my life and care.
Do not assume anti AGW is the easy way out because the PR states that - it was the red pill and I spent months trying research and refute and take back the awareness after years of being in-belief.... don't envy me it was agony and many tears.
Among the people that study the earth, i.e. the experts, there is no doubt as to what is really going on...
Do you ask your car mechanic about the latest results from the Hubble telescope? Didn't think so....
Actually, there is doubt.
Corbett Report episode 282 Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) ExposedYawn.....
exactly, why should we believe some anonymous propagandist on a tin foil hat website.
Flakzuki
Yes, that is why we shouldn't believe crap at WUWT or Jo Nova or sites like that...
.........or you, whoever the fuck you are
It ain't about believing me, despite what you want to think...
you seem to be emotionally invested heavily
Pretty rich given that it is coming from a person who vehmently attacks my position without provided a shred of credible evidence to back up his position...
Or your radio. That radio will lie to you.
About the AGW people;
1. Close minded, intolerant of people who disagree
2. Peddling fear based on extreme scenarios but
3. Manage to find "solutions" that gain power and wealth for themselves but would have little overall impact even based on their own metrics
Should we be prejudiced just because they're self seeking egomaniacal fear merchants? I mean they have models.
More like they have zero tolerance for people that knowingly lie in public...
Should we throw all the "journalists" on CNN, MSNBC, et al in jail as well for knowingly lying in public?
If a journalist reports a lie told by the administration or corporation, they ain't lying...
Are you from Hadleyburg?
Probably not and he probably will not bitch about the multiple green taxes popping up in our daily lives, smart meters, forced bicycle to work, calorie card, fees for inspecting his home to ensure its green reto-fitted and extra costs to his small business that uses more energy than the dark ages.... just sayin' this shite profits the same PTB destroying our developed nation middle class - there is incredible consistency in pattern of attack which once explored poses more questions and doubts than answers.
for what its worth - I have given time, money and sweat to protect our environment but I am not a cult greenie. When the royal tools like Phillip of WWF, are band from extraordinary hunting and other nefarious activities, then being green might mean something real.
Y'all have your heads up your asses. Sorry, GW, but you missed on this one (which is highly unusual). I don't give two shits about AGW/climate change at this point, and the entire debate is academic. If you read the science (and the AGW folks have certainly been far more convincing for me than the Cheney-Bush evangelical chrisitan science gurus), it doesn't frickin' matter. We are already screwed. If they're right, we can stop polluting the shit out of our air, destroying our water and poisoning our soils right now, and our pretty little civilization still gets monkey-hammered into oblivion. So who really frickin cares?
What I DO care about are the continuing efforts to strip the soils, contaminate my food, suck all of the water out of our aquifers so we can add it to the benzene we're injecting into our groundwaters so we can keep driving our SUVs, kill the remaining 1-5% of the pelagic fish that used to exist in our oceans as we acidify the water and continue to carry out our very own extinction event. And in the bargain, I STILL get fascists running things and bullets in exchange for speech.
The people who are DOING these things are traitors -- species traitors -- and hell yeah, I would shoot every fucking one of them. And if you don't agree with that, I frankly don't care. I don't need your agreement to see the wanton destruction being inflicted upon my world.
This will probably come as a rude shock to you, but it isn't "your world". You share it with a great number of other people with an equal claim and different opinions. Get used to it.
You can get people to buy any shit that you hiss through clenched teeth under an immanent threat. Think the main character in 24, under a deadline, hissing the hard, in your face, down and dirty, bottom line, you can't handle the truth!
Rewind
Remember what they told you about sociopaths
Re Read the first sentence.
Do you think sociopaths would say stuff like that to scare you into action? Imagine there are people right now making policy like that.
aka problem, reaction, solution ....this is one of multiple fronts for manufactured scarcity and control in your own home.
http://www.amazon.com/U-N-Agenda-21-Environmental-Piracy/dp/0615716474
"U.N. Agenda 21 has been in the works for decades, spearheaded by environmentalists, foreign individuals, third world countries, and non-profit organizations around the world. In the name of protecting the environment, socialist global governance has been quietly implemented at all levels of government via government grants, public-private partnerships, and EPA regulations involving use of land and water, affecting every facet of our lives.
Mandating population re-distribution in the name of biodiversity, re-educating our youth into sustainable everything, green jobs, green buildings, green cars, green energy, urban sprawl control, government bureaucrats from the United Nations and our own elected representatives are going to rezone us, resettle us, reduce our numbers, and tax us into the sustainable community described in the Wildlands Project Map.
Forcing us out of cars, into bike paths, light rail, walkways, greenbelts, ever more conservation areas forbidden to humans, urban boundary zones, and high-density areas, U.N. Agenda 21's 40 chapters will limit the behavior of individuals, organizations, and companies, covering everything we do in life.
U.N. Agenda 21 and has been implemented administratively with help from ICLEI and little Congressional debate or involvement. Some of the provisions of U.N. Agenda 21 have been included in other laws passed. Presidential executive orders are forcing its implementation at the national level. Our sovereignty is at stake. We must stop U.N. Agenda 21 before it is too late. Every chapter of it violates our Constitution."
Global warming is not a hoax.
Agenda 21 is a hoax.
The biggest demand of the elite controllers is that all humans lose half their life span and double the size of their litters.
And yes, I mean litters. They want 3 to 8 babies each from you.
It is only then your children are assured to be desperate, willing slaves, willing to kill siblings for food & parents who will sell those children to slavery to the elites.
You're so dumb you fell for the oldest trick in the book: they pretend they want de-population then you over-populate to "teach them a lesson" even though you can only starve your own children in the process.
Then in swoops the heroes who will help you with money & food if you sell your children, loan them, loan everything you have to feed them, making yourself an obdient slave.
And all along the way the religion of the elite, the demonic Vatican thing, is there to teach you that making babies is holy and all abortion, all condoms, are the devil.
You fucking fell for it.
checked out population control thoughts and activities by Gates, Turner, His Royal Virus et al lately?
worked out how to explain the UN ag21 global and local intitiative through the many UN conferences and ICLEI programs in our local councils interlinked with infrastructure programs financed by the tax payer and profiting ARUP, Clinton foundation etc? I an watching Ag21 in action in my country, my state and region- its working its not a hoax and the money its creating in costs for us and long term income streams for Maurice Strong and hid Al Gore mates are huge... that is the conspiracy.
I've checked it. It is a hoax.
No doubt physical territory in vast swaths of acres shall be claimed but cities shall be used as sardine cans to stuff live slaves into, overpopulation as much as possible.
so then it follows that since the dawn of the apple theory man has plundered nd pillaged and raped mother earth, and shows no propensity to changey, hopey anything then it follows that the only real solution, based upon climate change dogma, for the survival of the earth is the extinction of man. you go first.
Oddly I mentioned this in a comment the other day GW, you stalking me?
Sorry, double post.
Thanks.
You cut your stupidity in half.
In the scientific community there is almost 100% consensus that climate change is a real threat.
Then we have the corporations like big oil, who knoes the facts but are unwilling to pay the price, like no growth etc.
We have been sold on a future of big screen TVs, Tricorders and flying cars for everyone.
Consequences? What are those?
The past's bulk technology was dirty and wasteful.
Today's technology is beginning to mimic nature's technology, cleaner and more efficient.
When manu was given to China and removed from developed nations who introduced growing enviro controls (many sensible like not polluting rivers, soil and air thereby poisoning everyone) it was profitable for certain parties who concurrently increased western guilt about environmental damage while continuing terrible practices in 3rd world nations that created extreme enviro degredation of air, water, soil....as one digs deeper it starts to become obvious they profit from destruction and from blaming AGW that the western middle class must now pay for and pay more for through escalating regulation and compliance certificate requirements. A small example is a local Aussie farmer who goes bankrupt due to the onerous green tape that is suddenly negotiable for a mega-farm owned by corproate interests.
This is just another money printing press, only some have been able to acquire and hoard heirloom seeds, pure aquifers and vast acreage in areas surrounded by land 'protected' by world heritage listing.
The break away civilisation is protecting itself while we get dangerous smart meters (water and electric), GMO, plastic wrapped food/drink, vaccinations, sub-standard health care access.... etc
Ask Al Gore, Bill Gate, Rockefeller, Clintons, Monsanto execs and co and their kids to come and live, eat, drink and work the exact same way we are with the same big pharma drugs we're offered, the treated water we drink, sleeping in our normal locations under the nice big radio/mobile towers we're stuck with - they won't.
AGW is a ploy, a profitable one if anyone takes the time to follow the money and venture capitalists who keep appearing everywhere - heck 2 hours of looking at Aust CSIRO annual reports for their various arms and sll I could see was venture capitalists on boards of Artic research funded to find sea rising level, create a calculator model that could be sold to local councils to affect property rights, values and taxes....fuck AGW its a money making scam just follow the "Foundations", ARUP, ICLEI.... you'll find a rabbit hole that take you to the same players over and over - the repetition of contracts, research and PPP's targeting tax payer dollars will make you sick.
Meanwhile my lovely planet and its amazing wildlife is dying, I see it when scuba diving, when travelling, everywhere on every contintent - these people hijacked the enviro movement to their own agenda of profit, control and extraction.
Its upsetting when you have to deal with the reality of suffering and scarcity THEY create.
If these "experts" were really concerned about global warming, they would immediately stop the flare out of 40% of the natural gas in North Dakota and put it to better use like running a power plant with it. Flare off of natual gas has been going on in the middle east for 4 decades or more. On the wells that I own in Oklahoma, they flared off a million cubic feet of gas per day in the 1960's until natural gas lines were installed in the mid 70's to ship it northeast.
Those checks keep rolling in each month for that gas and should roll in for my son and daughter after I am gone!