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Unintended Consequences - Creating More Debt by Trying to Make Less

Cognitive Dissonance's picture




 

Unintended Consequences

Creating More Debt by Trying to Make Less

By

Cognitive Dissonance

 

 

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Towards the end of my recent radio interview (@ 1:48:00) we briefly discussed the financial system illusion, the potential for social disruptions that would result from the deconstruction of the system and the process of withdrawing or disentangling from the system itself. I mentioned to the interviewer an ironic twist that may result from disentangling or withdrawing to some degree or another from the system.

If you think it is difficult changing banks when so much of our financial life is entangled by direct deposit of wages, dividends, interest, social security or pensions; automatic debits and bill paying of mortgages, credit cards, insurance, utilities etc, then imagine the complications involved when substantial withdrawal from the system is attempted and many financial and physical connections are severed. It can become quite entangled and complicated, more so at least initially, rather than if we had done nothing.

For example let’s say you moved several hundred or even a thousand miles away to a more rural area. While you could and probably will still maintain your existing banking relationship, at least for a while, your local credit union or small community/regional bank may not have branches where you are moving to. In fact in many rural areas there is only one bank within ten, twenty, even fifty miles of your new home and possibly only two or three within several hundred miles.

Since modern life still requires checks to be cashed and/or deposited, personal checks to be written and currency to be held on hand, a new banking relationship would need to be established where you now live. This means several different types of accounts under various titling would be required since you still need to maintain (or increase) certain outside financial relationships until you can sever them.

Essentially you would need to maintain some portion of your old life at the old bank and also extend it to your new bank and location, plus create your new life at the new bank. Some of this will eventually be unraveled, but for now you have fed the banking system both by opening additional accounts and by moving more ‘money’ into the fractional reserve system as you liquidate assets. On the margin you have actually increased your Ponzi presence rather than reduce it. But it gets worse, much worse.

Regardless of whether you are selling a primary residence, income producing commercial property, a partnership or business, something we all must do to some extent or another if we are to move and begin to withdraw, while you may be paying off the debt associated with the properties, the buyer is more than likely taking on even more debt in order to purchase the asset.

Often this is simply because the asset you are selling has been held for many years and its debt has either been significantly paid down or extinguished during that time period. In some cases the asset has appreciated as well, requiring the buyer to take out a mortgage for an amount even greater than your original mortgage, let alone the balance now due.

In addition, even though your intention was to own your new residence free and clear of all debt, because you are initially cash crunched you might decide to take out a small first mortgage on the new place in order to preserve some of your cash to afford you more flexibility while you sold other assets and made improvements and repairs to the new property. This small debt could be extinguished soon, but once again more debt was created in order to help you disentangle.

Finally, as noted above you are probably making several improvements and repairs to your new place which requires additional spending above and beyond what you would normally engage in. While the expenditures are essentially capital improvements that will enable or assist you in continuing to whittle down your footprint within the Empire, it is still more short term fuel on the Ponzi fire.

This doesn’t include any additional spending by those who purchase your real estate, either to enhance or repair the property, meet newly enforced code requirements or just to be able to fix it up to increase revenue potential or in order to resell to others. In addition I’m not taking into account all the various closing costs on both sides of the HUD-1 that feeds the industry that feeds the real estate market that feeds the Ponzi leverage.

 

Unintended Consequences Too

 

Oftentimes commercial property is bought with as much leverage as possible and with the intention of extracting any built up equity at a later date to once again leverage the purchase of another property. While that may not have been your intent if you kept your income producing property or business, it is more likely to be the case for the purchaser of the property you are divesting to. The beast is fed once again.  

Of course, there are other ways to skin a Ponzi. You could have remained in your primary residence and begun the process of leveraged investment divestiture from there. Then when that was complete, and depending upon how much cash you wound up with, you could purchase your new home followed by the sale of your primary residence, Or do it the other way around: sell your house, then rent while you looked for and purchased your new home. This would have limited to some degree the feeding of the beast.

But as we all know, or will know soon enough, the real estate ‘bidness’ is up and down and the best time to sell is when there is a market for the sale of your properties, pushing the sales price up, and the best time to buy is when there isn’t a market for the property you wish to purchase, pushing that price down. Since you would be doing both, and time may be of the essence because of several complicating personal issues, for example a child unit that needs to be settled in a school system or the place you want won’t be there for long, you probably don’t want this process extended out over many months and potentially years. So you choose the devil you know.

You most likely won’t receive a windfall from the sale of the properties. While stock market assets may have been boosted by the Federal Reserve, personal and commercial properties have not responded equally well. In some cases, particularly personal property, while the potential selling price may be off the floor set in 2008-09, they have not recovered anything close to their highs except in a few select markets. Commercial income producing property is a little better, but there again it is all about location, location, location and not all commercial property is doing well. Not exactly the best time to sell.

You are committed to deleveraging your life, both personal and financial, so if it can be avoided you don’t wish to bring harm to yourself just to minimize the effect on the Ponzi. Thus your goal is to finish this process, or at least this portion of the process, as quickly and efficiently as possible. That said you’ll probably pick the path that suits you best since you do not owe allegiance to the Ponzi nor to those who will be left behind when it falls.

When the deleveraging process has begun it will be remarkable to witness first hand, once pen is put to paper and outcomes are projected to the end of the divestiture, how the entire financial system is geared towards stacking the chips higher and higher, with leverage upon leverage utilized to leverage even more. Each financial intermediary along the way of stacking and restacking of the Jenga blocks encourages the swift passage of their portion of the Ponzi simply because they are financially compensated to do so.

There is simply no way for the financial system to regress, to contract or even just to stabilize in order to buy some time to dismantle it and create something more sustainable. When every step along the way someone is dipping their buzzard’s beak into the cow pie, either for a living or for wealth enrichment and enhancement, no outcome other than collapse or a slightly slower crumble appears possible.

It is supremely ironic that those who wish to withdraw or minimize their interactions with the Ponzi might actually feed it on the way out. This alone speaks volumes towards how dysfunctional and truly unsustainable it is.

 

03-30-2014

Cognitive Dissonance

 

www.TwoIceFloes.com is unlike anything you will find on the web, a truly unique destination. There you will find distinctive Premium Members only articles as well as discussions on wellness and health, homesteading, spirituality & philosophy and most importantly ‘safe’ forums not found anywhere else. Come by for a peek and stay a while.

 

Financial Jenga Blocks

 

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Mon, 03/31/2014 - 18:30 | 4612149 petero
petero's picture

One of my favorite photographs taken at an airport near a small village in Mexico where I lived.

Kind of says it all for me.... http://oceanfalls.org/misc/2014apr/airport.jpg

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 17:33 | 4611968 ebear
ebear's picture

All of which goes to show that no matter where you go, there you are.

 

 

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 17:10 | 4611913 Comte d'herblay
Comte d'herblay's picture

Why do you distract us with this...this.....this......nevermind

 

http://staticd.cdn.adblade.com/banners/images/224x168/491_5220d8dfb6294.jpg

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 12:35 | 4610930 snakedogs
snakedogs's picture

Major cities will become Stalingrad's of WW II, with the savages descending into tribal warfare when the food runs out. Let them eat each other or be killed venturing out of their "Animal Farms"

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 16:59 | 4611886 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

In that case you should probably define major city as any urban area having more than 20,000 residents, in which case your scenario covers a lot of territory.

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 11:49 | 4610789 dizzyfingers
dizzyfingers's picture

Mr. Cog: congrats, two big articles in one day!

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 12:50 | 4610947 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Mrs. Cog 'made me' do it. :-)

It is now 12:37 PM EDT and, other than Banzai7, no ZH contributor has posted anything since 7 PM EDT Sunday evening.

VERY strange. I have never seen that before. Usually there is a rush Sunday night and Monday morning.

Edit: No sooner do I post this comment and a contributor comes along and posts.

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 16:56 | 4611877 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

Maybe the well of ideas is finally running dry.

Hard to imagine, I've always found a lot of imagination at ZH. However there is a cost to constantly trying to figure out that which defies all logic. At some point, the mind boggles. I suppose there is some merit in sitting still and letting it wash over us until the moment when action is absolutely required, and then taking the absolutely correct action at that time without recourse to discussion, having a clear mind.

On second thought that's probably one of those cat-things so never mind.

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 17:42 | 4611986 ebear
ebear's picture

"Maybe the well of ideas is finally running dry."

Everything has a shelf life.  Then it either decays or mummifies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=is08BAijAKI

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 11:43 | 4610757 dizzyfingers
dizzyfingers's picture

mendolover : Good for good folks to leave shitty places and take their talents elsewere. Did you look at NH, the Free State? 

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 12:03 | 4610828 mendolover
mendolover's picture

Yes I have dizzy.  I bought a copy of Libertopia before it was up on YouTube.  Shooting for three years or so to make the move.  Hopefully sooner.  I have solid contacts in VT, but the damn taxes are too high!  Peace!

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXSw0nYKiU8

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 09:37 | 4610287 dizzyfingers
dizzyfingers's picture

Some places are better than others. Check it out: http://freestateproject.org/about/101-reasons-move-new-hampshire

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 10:56 | 4610564 mendolover
mendolover's picture

It may not be Wyoming or Montana but it beats the shit out of CT my soon to be former address.  No knife laws?  Wow.  NYC's DA Vance would be appalled!

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 08:34 | 4610057 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

That's an aweful lot of verbage to say something so simple...

Here, allow me to clarify...

 

That which cannot be sustained, won't be...

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 07:52 | 4609965 falak pema
falak pema's picture

That pile of bricks reminds me of the Karate master films; where in one fell blow all the bricks just get broken in two neat piles.

That is the Janet Yellen FED's wet dream for sure! 

Being a karate master global expert! 

Where is the Karate Kid of the wild west to challenge this jiggery-pokery, false shag-a-bag of tricks?

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 04:32 | 4609835 Bearwagon
Bearwagon's picture

I'd call that a "democratic manifestation of extreme economical idiocy". Even without all that new debt the house has gone bust. An ongoing recession is nearly unavoidable. The policy of democratic committees is - as usual- quite miserably prepared for the future. Dyspnea is their sole tool - and in medicine that counts as a symptom of looming cardiac infarction. Maybe that is the case with politics all the more.
The politicians are helplessly faced with problems they either cannot comprehend or wilfully don't want to comprehend. They will be flattened by the ongoing development of the crisis.
"Very bad idea, to bring a knife to a shootout", and that's nearly exactly what these morons are planning.
So called "academics" have seriously created a theory of deficit financing, but one does not need to bother with that boring (and stupid) shit, because the nations indebtedness has completely run out of the rudder. That piece is nothing than a nice theory for an "applied economics" seminar.
One doesn't need to evaluate the pro's and con's of deficit financing. The political reality has left them far behind, there are no "pro's" anymore. One cann assume that the catastrophe is already here and happening, and chances are bad that it will be overcome in less than twenty years - if at all. The general debt level has it's own destructive momentum, which could possibly crash that nations sooner or later.
Credit for the financing of public budgets is nothing more than useless ends in themselves. It is no longer available to balance the budget, but finances the payment for interests the politics themselves created. That mountain of debt will increase ever faster and steeper. Several nations are at the brink of bankruptcy. That is an existential threat, that all developed democracies have created for and out of themselves.
The politicians can only remain where they are if they offer "gifts" to the public infinitely. At least that is what they believe. If the people they govern are to croak along that way doesn't make the slightest diffenrence to them. At least way less than their own "well-being" and wealth. What little political projects are left, suffer from economic insanity from the outset.
NO matter what project there will be proposed - the opposition will immediately cry: "How shall that ever be financed?!" Most projects are dead from this point on. Because it simply means: "But there is no money left for this!! We have to save the money at some other project, because there is none left!" Who does benefit from this? Well - essentially nobody, the money is just pushed from one corner into another, but it doesn't get more.
In plain theory this situation could be solved -either by rising taxes (preferably to go unnoticed) or by cutting subsidies. But that is just theory - and far from practice. Subsidies are one of the most important means for politicians to grant their cronie's an "award", and that's exactly why they will never be touched. The bad thing is, that the politicians capacity to act is diminished to the minimum, and that is a massive deterioration.
Paralysis spreads. Political reforms, be they as necessary as possible, cannot take place. They would afford capacity to act - but that's been lost forever.
All what's left is the capacity to have debates in pretense about problems in pretense. Politicians like to bemoan the role of the banks and their influence, as if it were not themselves who are completely responsible for creating this exact situation.
Such a crisis is typical for the end-stage of democracies, they're daily routine, and they have been created solely by democratic politics. The democratically elected representants have induced the crisis all by themselves and are rushing from one summit to the next, just to solve problems, under thunderous applause from the MSM, which without them never would have existed.
There are still people who admire those politicians for their efforts. Although all that they really deserve would be deep contempt, because it has been them, and no one else, who created the whole mess. And because they don't have the slightest clue how to solve the probelms they created, they create new problems instead and thereby keep up their revenues. Absurd Theater pales in comparision.

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 17:04 | 4611904 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

Nice points.

"Such a crisis is typical for the end-stage of democracies, they're daily routine, and they have been created solely by democratic politics. The democratically elected representants have induced the crisis all by themselves and are rushing from one summit to the next, just to solve problems, under thunderous applause from the MSM, which without them never would have existed."

Well put.

Yes it is all theater. Send in the clowns.

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 10:18 | 4610419 dizzyfingers
dizzyfingers's picture

Bearwagon

EUREKA! ONE WHO SEES WHAT IS IN FRONT OF HIM/HER.

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 00:24 | 4609567 bigkahuna
bigkahuna's picture

I believe the oligarchs have finally obtained overt critical mass over the US Constitution. They have overwhelmed the Republic and it's laws. It is now out in the open and the citizens have accepted it. Anything goes now. (loosely translated - anything can happen)

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 05:34 | 4609859 Bearwagon
Bearwagon's picture

"Anything Goes" ... and here it is (by Cole Porter): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wd1w5tn040g       ;-)

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 04:12 | 4609816 All Risk No Reward
All Risk No Reward's picture

They did along time ago.  John Taylor Gatto said, "There was a Second American Revolution [in the late 1800s].  It was not won through force of arms, but through force of insight into how to create public opinion."

I agree.

Why is Cog Dis talking about doing business with an "old bank?"

People need to defund the "old bank" by using credit unions instead.

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 05:30 | 4609858 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Maybe because there isn't a credit union within at least 30 miles of where I live? And if you are withdrawing to a rural area, not one near you as well?

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 08:47 | 4610086 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Please, I live in a rural area, we became our own bank (it's called a co-op).  If anyone needs to maintain trustworthy neighbors, close connections, and weapons, it's the folks in productive rural areas.   As cities begin to fail, we need to be prepared for all those sharecroppers (if we aren't all those city folks will simply try to do what they have done in the past...

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 08:50 | 4610110 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

I agree. Co-ops are an answer.

But if you are just moving into a rural area and don't know anyone there and there is no existing co-op I would suspect your chance of creating one is about zero. Co-ops are first and foremost about trust in the common good of all by all. If you are new to an area, the locals don't know you and most likely won't trust you if you tried to start one up.

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 09:44 | 4610304 dizzyfingers
dizzyfingers's picture

"If you are new to an area, the locals don't know you and most likely won't trust you if you ...."

There's a big difference between being (by which I mean "being perceived as) "them" or "us". Everywhere new, one is seen as "them". It takes a long time -- sometimes never happens -- to be thought of as "us".  Doesn't mean being (or being thought of as) "us" is 100% better than being "them". Unintended consequences accrue to both, something that's important to recognize.

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 10:02 | 4610361 Mrs. Cog
Mrs. Cog's picture

"Us" and "them" are funny concepts indeed.

After all the effort and work towards establishing a new lifestyle it turns out that where we are going WE are "them." We are the “city folk” who think they can make a go of it in the country. We are the ones who used to work for banks and play in the stock market and think we have answers. We are the new people at the farmer's market with a funny accent and strange ideas and clothes. We are the one's invading the bunny, turkey, deer and bear stomping grounds. It turns out "they" is a relative term. It is not lost upon us that we have our work cut out in order to begin to fit in to our new community and show our value as good neighbors. http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2013-07-07/guest-post-bugging-out-dc-burbs

Thank goodness Cog is glowing the natives in his personable way. They actually smile and talk back now. :-)

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 11:40 | 4610753 dizzyfingers
dizzyfingers's picture

Mrs. C: in the place where we established a second home,  in the state where I was born, we were told point blank that I wasn't from that specific area so they didn't consider me "native". Got all kinds of insulting comments for a while but "took up with" some nice folks and now ignore the others, don't care what they think. There were some threats, to which I said "bring it on"; they haven't yet. Grow a tougher skin, it's the "sticks and stones" aphorism, who cares what they think? You're there now, live your life and enjoy it.

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 12:12 | 4610855 Mrs. Cog
Mrs. Cog's picture

Thanks dizz. So far the natives seem pretty friendly. Cog has installed a backup generator for a local family and I created a small business website for a local business owned by an old established family here. I'm thinkin' they musta given the nod about us to the others. I imagine they forgive the fact that we can't stay out of the mud or avoid the poison sumac (mountain newbies) since I can make them one of those new fangled interweb thingys and Cog can keep their lights on lol.

We'll see how it goes when we get to the farmers market this Spring. I know more than one farmer has seen us stop our cars by the road and talk to the cows. ;-)

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 16:59 | 4611887 g speed
g speed's picture

I moved to a place with one bank 20 miles away--35 yrs ago-- now I'm in the middle of town--with a zillion banks all up and down the street--go figure--

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 10:53 | 4610555 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

There are always some of "us" with resources and technical know-how, and for millions of years some people live and some people die...

meh, same as it ever was...


Mon, 03/31/2014 - 00:04 | 4609529 francis_sawyer666
francis_sawyer666's picture

There is no DEBT that is the big lie, the FIAT that has been created,100's of trillions of USD, never has to be paid back to anyone.

The only DEBT is those that have to pledge real assets, GOLD or LAND, or physical assets to the IMF/BIS, that is 'DEBT'.

Those that CONTROL MURDER, INC ( BIS/IMF/FED-RESERVE-FIAT ) they're not in any kind of DEBT.

Debt is for little country's and little people, all else create INFINITE FIAT for FREE.

So long as the world trembles in FEAR, then the game will continue.

So long as 'intellectuals' talk in smoke filled rooms of Michangelo the fraud will continue.

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 04:05 | 4609806 All Risk No Reward
All Risk No Reward's picture

>>There is no DEBT that is the big lie, the FIAT that has been created,100's of trillions of USD, never has to be paid back to anyone.<<

The Debt Money Tyrants, the people who finance the people with their fingers on nuclear weapons, disagree.

>>The only DEBT is those that have to pledge real assets, GOLD or LAND, or physical assets to the IMF/BIS, that is 'DEBT'.<<

Also your future labor.  The police state is being erected for a reason.

>>Those that CONTROL MURDER, INC ( BIS/IMF/FED-RESERVE-FIAT ) they're not in any kind of DEBT.<<

Money is debt.  Their monetary wealth **IS** our debt, BY DEFINITION.  The MASTERS aren't in debt, the (cognitive) SLAVES are.

>>Debt is for little country's and little people, all else create INFINITE FIAT for FREE.<<

All countries are "little" compared to the supranational banking cartel.  If you haven't figured out that America is a vassal state, look a little deeper.

>>So long as the world trembles in FEAR, then the game will continue.<<

The fear hasn't even started in earnest.

>>So long as 'intellectuals' talk in smoke filled rooms of Michangelo the fraud will continue.<<

This isn't about intellectuals or being misguided.

This is a criminal operation being run by genocidal kleptocrats and they ultimately want the common person pushing up daisies.

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 05:57 | 4609865 francis_sawyer666
francis_sawyer666's picture

Money is what ever you want to trade with in exchange for goods.

Be it seashells or condoms.

*

But the USA is master and if you don't trade your heroin, and Cocaine in USD, then we put you out of business (CIA).

*

Talking about money and economics is all about mental masturbation.

The USD is FIAT, worthless fucking notional paper, and certainly wouldn't be accepted by anybody were the USA not the worlds policeman.

Is the USD money in the traditional sense? Hell no.

But nobody in all world history has murdered so many to create  a one world FIAT, to rule them all.

The end of history is here.

 

Sat, 04/05/2014 - 03:04 | 4627592 All Risk No Reward
All Risk No Reward's picture

Actually, talking trash about Debt Money Tyranny is all fun and games until the numb skulls with guns show up to collect some of that "worthless f* notional paper" for the Bankster's "government" front.

Funny how that worthless stuff will cost you your life if you don't turn it over and refuse to go to that little cage, isn't it?

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 16:56 | 4611874 g speed
g speed's picture

well hell francis  --it's how you get powerful-commit murder-- what do you want--a world with out powerful people?  

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 00:18 | 4609542 blindman
blindman's picture

taxes and debt are for the little people,
their or that "value" is another thing
altogether and,by law, the property
of an entirely different bunch and getting
worse or even more imbalanced.
few notice the causes, many the affects,
there the initial plan from 1913.
the global doom plan of mass production
proliferated into the mind of unknowing men,
women and children. aka progress

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 00:36 | 4609599 francis_sawyer666
francis_sawyer666's picture

Taxes are just a form of slavery in the USA,

Most of us could find food, and make a little plot of land to build a small house, find water and fire wood, and share the meat, just like men have lived 10's of 1,000's of years.

But "TAXES" in the USA make it impossible to jump off the grid, make slavery a universal right to all occupants of said USA prison colony.

*

The GUBMINT doens't NEED YOUR money or your taxes, but they need to MIND-FUCK you, like property tax on the HOME that you OWN, but you don't pay that tax and they take your home.

There is no such thing as ownership, taxes aren't DEBT they are stealing your blood yourlife force while your alive.

DEBT means deferral, but taxes are something that must be paid today or gubmint will rob you or imprison you.

But make no mistake the GUBMINT doens't need or want your money, they want your SOUL, Your MIND, and YOUR BODY.

*

The USA can and does print USD to FIAT-INFINITY, they could easily put everyone on welfare, and it would work, but the USA wants to build prisons and control people and murder them and hide them out of sight.

The people who run the USA are SICK psycho mother fucking assholes.

NO, its NOT the same all over the earth, anywhere else on earth outside the USA, you would think you have died and gone to heaven.

Most country's don't require you to pay taxes, and people live on the land, from generation to generation, and nobody gives a thought to ownership.

*

It's called life, it means to eat, fuck, dance, play music, make baby's, find a wife, ... build a home, and live.

It's called LIFE, but the USA is ONLY about DEATH, CONTROL, and INFINITE FIAT.

*

Legalized drugs are coming to all america, and legalized prostitution too, and that  means those in gubmint can fuck anyone any time they wish cuz they have the FIAT and you and your children will FUCK the assholes cuz they have the FIAT and you don't, and you must FUCK them to get FIAT to pay your taxes, or go to PRISON.

Welcome to ameriKKKA.

 

Sat, 04/05/2014 - 03:06 | 4627597 All Risk No Reward
All Risk No Reward's picture

>>But "TAXES" in the USA make it impossible to jump off the grid, make slavery a universal right to all occupants of said USA prison colony.<<

According to Carroll Quigley in Tragedy and Hope, forcing people out of self-sufficiency was the EXACT INTENT behind creating property taxes.

Tragedy and Hope
http://real-world-news.org/bk-quigley/00.html

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 01:05 | 4609641 Poor Grogman
Poor Grogman's picture

Instead of property taxes .gov could simply print fiat to cover all needs, but then the serfs might decide that they really have no use for .gov and might decide to use other forms of non government money.

Therefore .gov needs taxation in order to force everyone to use their fiat.

As for the USA being unique in regard to taxation it is not.

The tune is different in other places but tribute is paid by the peons one way or another.

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 01:26 | 4609672 francis_sawyer666
francis_sawyer666's picture

This is NOT true,

I have lived all over the earth, and most country's the PEON's are invisible,

In 80% of the world, the GUBMINT goes after the big money and never bothers with the PEON.

*

THE USA HAS too much FIAT and PTB are CONTROL freaks thus they created the NSA, to watch the PEON's ... for what? Just bullshit when you have TOO MUCH MONEY.

Most of the earth the COP-SHOP is dirt poor, only the USA world' policeman are armed high-tech.

 

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 06:59 | 4609910 chindit13
chindit13's picture

Dirt poor can still be pretty effective.  I read an article in the Times of India (in 2011) where Government Babus there had compiled figures showing nearly 200,000 Indians died while in police custody from 2000-2010.  That just goes to show that MP7s are not a requirement for killing when a good beating or access to the local power grid achieves the same end.  Also, those 2 lakh souls were what you would call "peons".  Nobody gets out alive.

Still, you have a point.  Personally, I am far more concerned with the local police force in the US than the entire NSA.  FBI would be a second behind local LE (look at how the FBI went at Drake, busting in when he was showering).  Local police are far more likely to whomp ass, and with all their guns and flak jackets and stuff, they seem intent on using them.  While I'm miffed at the NSA for illegal data collection, I don't think for a second that they care I exist.  Collection of data doesn't mean collating data.  Yes, they store it all in a big clump, in the event they might want to use it some day, but it is hubris to think they have a 201-File on me or any of us here on ZH.  All the stuff on Eurocitizens they got from the local services there, such as Merkel's BND or the UK's GCHQ (but Keith let Merkel et al feign righteous indignation in exchange for what Merkel tapped at EU HQ in Brussels).  As for the Langley types, they've been shut off in the US since the Church Commission.  Maybe if I change my name to Abdul Rahman abu Qunboolah and do the Syria-Iraq-Afghan Jihadi Package Tour after completing the Hajj.....

Sat, 04/05/2014 - 03:09 | 4627600 All Risk No Reward
All Risk No Reward's picture

as long as you remain a good little sheep, you should be safe up until the great economic culling that takes us all down.  If you get out of line, though, well, all your data (and more - they plant stuff, too!) are theirs.

 

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 13:16 | 4611069 Winston of Oceania
Winston of Oceania's picture

Any information collected by NSA will be used against you by the State at some point in the future. It may be to coerse you into denouncing someone you know in order to both capture you in an "official lie" and to gather "evidence" against the accused agitator.

"It is not left against right, it is YOU against the State." Ludwig von Mises

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 01:40 | 4609686 Poor Grogman
Poor Grogman's picture

You may have lived all over the earth but if you are a permanent resident of most developed countries, and actually EARNING your own livelihood you will most likely pay taxes or go to jail.

Yes you can be invisible if you want to spend your life in the shadows but once you become a functioning part in the economy it would be wise to start looking over your shoulder for the tax man.

Australians pay at least 125 different taxes each year. Of these, 99 are levied by the Australian government (including 67 agricultural levies), 25 by the States and 1 (council rates) by local government. The exact number of taxes is difficult to determine and may be higher than these estimates. This reflects ambiguity in distinguishing when a payment to government represents a separate tax or part of a broader tax and whether a payment is a tax rather than a fee for service (see Box 2.2 for further discussion). The estimates above take a conservative approach to these issues and therefore may understate the number of taxes paid by Australians.

http://www.taxreview.treasury.gov.au/content/Paper.aspx?doc=html/publica...

The Numbers: How do U.S. taxes compare internationally?

U.S. taxes are low relative to those in other developed countries. In 2008 U.S. taxes at all levels of government claimed 26 percent of GDP, compared with an average of 35 percent of GDP for the 33 member countries of the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD).

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/background/numbers/internat...

The ponzi doesn't seem to appreciate free-loaders…

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 04:01 | 4609799 francis_sawyer666
francis_sawyer666's picture

permanent resident of most developed countries, * Why would any FREE-MAN on earth live in a prison?

 

Developed Country == PRISON

 

Un-Developed Country == FREEDOM

 

You want your fucking prison? You can keep your prison. I want FREEDOM, fuck yes live far away as a possible from a ' fucking 'developed prison colony'.

Fuck the USA & AUSSIE, both UK prison colony's of hairlips.

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 06:45 | 4609902 Poor Grogman
Poor Grogman's picture

Both the USA and Aussie were once undeveloped countries.

Undeveloped country + free market capitalism + rule of law = developed country.

Which do you want to do away with, the rule of law, or capitalism?

If you see yourself as some third world hobo that's fine but you had better hope that your favourite third world country and all it's inhabitants doesn't become prosperous while you are still there.

It's backward thinking to hold undeveloped countries up as an example to try and emulate. Unless of course you fancy a crony or rogue government, beholden to foreign globalist corporations. low living standards, shitty infrastructure, hyperinflation, and a rigged legal system. .
( references to the US aside)

The fun part of the discussion around here involves keeping oneself at the forefront of the changes that are sweeping through the western worlds financial bloodstream. The changes that are taking place, do have the potential to revert western society to a less developed state, although with the additions of a full feudal structure, and in your face totalitarianism. This is not a pleasant prospect, but neither is it inevitable. The fall could well result in a resurgence of liberty, and a society which does not disintegrate, but rather is forced to find ways to evolve, despite its past mistakes.

Hide out by all means in some "undeveloped country" living hand to mouth in order to avoid paying taxes. There are plenty of people in the "developed countries" who find the winds of change exhilarating, and will be willing to step up to the plate when the time comes, demanding a say, in how things are to be done in the future.

Enjoy your own path though, it's all you have after all.

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 04:56 | 4609845 JustUsChickensHere
JustUsChickensHere's picture

Welcome back Francis

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 06:00 | 4609868 francis_sawyer666
francis_sawyer666's picture

Place any bets how long the Immortal ZIO-ZH-TYLER bot's let me live? Days? Hours?

A funny place, ... all the fuck-heads never die on ZH, ...

Fonestar, ... iridium, ...

What happened to CockNBall's? They took him out right? Miss him.

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 00:00 | 4609525 Poor Grogman
Poor Grogman's picture

Any economic activity, good, or bad, feeds the ponzi.

War, getting divorced, forest fire. All good for the ponzi rebuilding, employment debt machine.

The only thing that doesn't seem to help the system is total user apathy.

When the Soviet Union reached 100 % user apathy the system collapsed..

Mon, 03/31/2014 - 06:07 | 4609873 francis_sawyer666
francis_sawyer666's picture

The soviet union collapsed because the people lost trust in the gubmint.

So long as the US-FSA which is now over 60% of the USA PUBLIK, so long as they get their montly FIAT, ... nobody is going say shit.

Just a fact,

You simply cannot compare late 1980's Russia to POST 911 USA. Not even apples and oranges,

More like comparing a space-colony (USA), to a civil war army(RUSSIA).

*
Todays USA is envy of the world, free fiat, everybody on the dole, perfect media control, and the public consumed by porn, selfy-porn, and porn idol's. Legalize drugs and you have 1984&brave-new-world perfected, toss in FIAT to INFINITE and you are immortal

 

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